no purgation can no way be put off by any pretences For he means it of the time after death before the day of judgment which is directly oppos'd to the doctrine of the Church of Rome and unless you will suppose that S. Gregory believ'd two Purgatories it is certain he did not believe the Roman for he taught that the purgation which he calls Baptism by fire and the saving yet so as by fire was to be perform'd at the day of judgment and the curiosity of that trial is the fierceness of that fire as Nicetas expounds S. Gregories words in his oration in sancta lumina So that S. Gregory affirming that this world is the place of purgation and that after this world there is no purgation could not have spoken any thing more direct against the Roman Purgatory S. Hilary In Psalm and S. Macarius speak of two states after death and no more True says E. W. but they are the two final states That is true too in some sense for it is either of eternal good or evil but to one of these states they are consigned and determined at the time of their death at which time every one is sent either to the bosom of Abraham or to a place of pain where they are reserved to the sentence of the great day S. Hillary's words are these There is no stay or delaying For the day of judgement is either an eternal retribution of beatitude or of pain But the time of our death hath every one in his laws whiles either Abraham viz. the bosom of Abraham or pain reserves every one unto the Judgment These words need no Commentary He that can reconcile these to the Roman Purgatory Homil. 22. vide etiam homil 26. will be a most mighty man in controversie And so also are the words of S. Macarius when they go out of the body the quires of Angels receive their souls and carry them to their proper place 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to a pure world and so lead them to the Lord. Such words as these are often repeated by the Holy Fathers and Doctors of the Ancient Church I sum them up with the saying of S. Athanasius De Virgin 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. It is not death that happens to the righteous but a translation For they are translated out of this world into everlasting rest And as a man would go out of prison so do the Saints go out of this troublesome life unto those good things which are prepared for them Now let these and all the precedent words be confronted against the sad complaints made for the souls in Purgatory by Joh. Gerson in his querela defunctorum and Sr. Tho. More in his supplication of souls and it will be found that the doctrine of the Fathers differs from the doctrine of the Church of Rome as much as heaven and hell rest and labor horrid torments and great joy I conclude this matter of quotations by the saying of Pope Leo Letter p. 18. which one of my adversaries could not find because the printer was mistaken It is the 91. Epistle so known and so us'd by the Roman writers in the Qu. of Confession that if he be a man of learning it cannot be suppos'd but he knew where to find them The words are these But if any of them for whom we pray unto the Lord being intercepted by any obstacle falls from the benefit of the present Indulgences and before he comes to the constituted remedies shall end his temporal life by humane condition or frailty that which abiding in the body he hath not received being out of the flesh he cannot Now against these words of S. Leo set the present doctrine of the Church of Rome that what is not finished of penances here a man may pay in Purgatory and let the world judge whether S. Leo was in this point a Roman Catholic Indeed S. Leo forgot to make use of the late distinction of sins venial and mortal of the punishment of mortal sins remaining after the fault is taken away but I hope the Roman Doctors will excuse the Saint because the distinction is but new and modern But this Testimony of S. Gregory must not go for a single Testimony That which abiding in the body could not be receiv'd out of the body cannot that is when the soul is gone out of the body as death finds them so shall the day of judgment find them And this was the sense of the whole Church for after death there is no change of state before the General Trial no passing from pain to rest in the state of separation and therefore either there are no Purgatory pains or if there be there is no ease of them before the day of judgment and the Prayers and Masses of the Church cannot give remedy to one poor soul and this must of necessity be confessed by the Roman Doctors or else they must shew that ever any one Catholic Father did teach that after death and before the day of Judgment any souls are translated into a state of bliss out of a state of pain that is that from Purgatory they go to heaven before the day of Judgment He that can shew this will teach me what I have not yet learned but he that cannot shew it must not pretend that the Roman doctrine of Purgatory was ever known to the Ancient Fathers of the Church SECTION III. Of Transubstantiation THE purpose of the Dissuasive was to prove the doctrine of Transubstantiation to be new neither Catholic nor Apostolic In order to which I thought nothing more likely to perswade or dissuade than the testimonies of the parties against themselves And although I have many other inducements as will appear in the sequel yet by so earnestly contending to invalidate the truth of the quotations the Adversaries do confess by implication if these sayings be as is pretended then I have evinc'd my main point viz. that the Roman doctrines as differing from us are novelties and no parts of the Catholic faith Thus therefore the Author of the letter begins He quotes Scotus P. 18. as declaring the doctrine of Transubstantiation is not expressed in the Canon of the Bible which he saith not To the same purpose he quotes Ocham but I can finde no such thing in him To the same purpose he quotes Roffensis but he hath no such thing But in order to the verification of what I said I desire it be first observ'd what I did say for I did not deliver it so crudely as this Gentleman sets it down For 1. These words the doctrine of Transubstantiation is not expressed in the Canon of the Bible are not the words of all them before nam'd they are the sense of them all but the words but of one or two of them 2. When I say that some of the Roman Writers say that Transubstantiation is not express'd in the Scripture I mean and so I said plainly as without
profess to be infallible I am certain in nothing and without an infallible oral tradition it is impossible I should be certain of any thing In answer to this I demand why I may not be as certain of what I know or believe as Mr. White or I. S. Is the doctrine of Purgatory fire between death and the day of judgement and of the validity of the prayers and Masses said in the Church of Rome to the freeing of souls from Purgatory long before the day of judgment is this doctrine I say delivered by an infallible oral tradition or no If no then the Church of Rome either is not certain it is true or else she is certain of it by some other way than such a tradition If yea then how is Mr. White certain that he speaks true in his book de statu animarum where he teaches that prayers of the Church do no good and free no souls before the day of judgement for he hath no oral tradition for his opinion for two oral traditions cannot be certain and infallible when they contradict one another and if the traditions be not infallible as good for these men that they be none at all So that either Mr. White cannot be certain of any thing he says by not relying on oral tradition or the Church of Rome cannot be certain and therefore he or she may forbear to persuade their friends to any thing And for my present adversary I. S. who also affirms that oral tradition of the present Church is the whole rule of faith how can he trust himself or be certain of any thing or teach any thing when his Church says otherwise than he says and makes tradition to be but a part of the rule of faith as is to be seen in the Council of Trent it self in the first decree of the fourth Session Perspiciensque hanc verita tem disciplinam contineri in libris scriptis sine scripto traditionibus omnes libros tamveteris quam N. T. nec non Traditiones ipsa◠c. pari pietatis affectu ac reverentiâ suscipit veneratur So that in effect here are two rules of faith and therefore two Churches Mr. I. S.'s is the traditionary Church so called from relying solely on tradition the other what shall we call it for distinction sake the Purgatorian Church from Purgatory or if you will the imaginary Church from worshiping images And since they do not both follow the same rule of faith the one making tradition alone to be the ground the other not so it will follow by Mr. I. S. his argument that either the one or the other missing the true ground of faith cannot be certain of any thing that they say And now when he hath considered these things let him reckon the advantage which his Catholic faith gains by the opposition from her adversaries if they be rightly handled as Mr. S. hath handled them and brought to his grounds But however the opposition which I have now made hath it's advantages upon the weakness of Mr. Whites grounds and I. S.'s demonstrations yet I shall without relation to them but upon the account of other grounds which his wiser and more learned brethren of the other Church do lay make it appear that there is indeed in the Church of Rome no sure footing no foundation of faith upon which a man can with certainty rely and say Now I am infallibly sure that I am in the right The fifth Way THe fifth way I. S. says is built on the fourth which being prov'd to be a ruinous foundation I have the less need to trouble my self about that which will fall of it self but because he had no reason to trust that foundation for all his confidence he is glad to build his fifth way on the Protestants voluntary Concession for they granting they have no demonstration for the ground of their faith must say they have only probability But I pray who told I. S. that we grant we have no demonstration for the ground of our faith Did ever any Protestant say that there is no moral demonstration of his faith or that it cannot be prov'd so certain so infallible that the gates of hell shall never prevail against it If I. S. will descend so low as to look upon the book of a Protestant besides many better Book 1. chap. pag. 124. he may finde in my Cases of Conscience a demonstration of Christian Religion and although it consists of probabilities yet so many so unquestion'd so confess'd so reasonable so uncontradicted pass into an argument of as much certainty as humane nature without a Miracle is capable of as many sands heap'd together make a bank strong enough to resist the impetuosity of the raging sea But I have already shown upon what certainties our faith relies and if we had nothing but high probabilities it must needs be as good as their prudential motives and therefore I shall not repeat any thing but pass on to consider what it is he says of our high probabilities if they were no more If there be probabilities on both sides then the greatest must carry it so he roundly professes never considering that the latter Casuists of his Church I mean those who wrote since Angelus Silvester Cordubensis and Cajetan do expresly teach the contrary viz. that of two probabilities the less may be chosen and that this is the common and more receiv'd opinion But since I. S. is in the right let them and he agree it as we do if they please I hope he relates this only to the Questions between us and Rome and not to the Christian Faith well but if the matter be only between us I am well enough content and the greater probability that is the better argument shall carry it and I will not be asking any more odd Questions as why I. S. having so clearly demonstrated his religion by grounds firm as the land of Delos or O Brasile he should now be content to argue his cause at the bar of probability Well but let us see what he says for his party That there is no probability for our side says I. S. is very hard to be said since the whole world sees plainly we still maintain the field against them nay dare pretend without fearing an absolute baffle which must needs follow had we not at least probabilities to befriend us that our grounds are evidently and demonstrably certain Here I. S. seems to be afraid again of his probabilities that he still runs to covert under his broad shield of demonstration but his postulatum here is indeed very modest he seems to desire us to allow that there are some probable things to be said for his side and indeed he were very hard hearted that should say there are none at all some probabilities we shall allow but no grounds evidently and demonstratively certain good Sir And yet let me tell you this There are some of your propositions for
presently after death to mean the day of judgment of the time of which neither men nor Angels know any thing And whereas Justin Martyr says that presently the souls of the righteous go to Paradise Pag. 33. E. W. answers 2. That Justin does not say that all just souls are carried presently into Heaven no Justin says into Paradise true but let it be remembred that it is so a part of Heaven as limbus infantum is by themselves call'd a part of hell that is a place of bliss the region of the blessed But 3. Justin says that presently there is a separation made but he says not that the souls of the righteous are carried to Paradise That 's the next answer which the very words of Justin do contradict There is presently a separation made of the just and unjust for they are by the Angels carried to the places they have deserved This is the separation which is made one is carried to Paradise the other to a place in hell But these being such pitiful offers at answering the Gentleman tries another way and says 4. That this affirmative of Justin contradicts another saying of Justin which I cited out of Sixtus Senensis that Iustin Martyr and many other of the Fathers affirm'd that the souls of men are kept in secret receptacles reserved unto the sentence of the great day and that before then no man receives according to his works done in this life To this I answer that one opinion does not contradict another for though the Fathers believ'd that they who die in the Lord rest from their labours and are in blessed places and have antepasts of joy and comforts yet in those places they are reserv'd unto the judgment of the great day The intermedial joy or sorrow respectively of the just and unjust does but antidate the final sentence and as the comforts of Gods spirit in this life are indeed graces of God and rewards of piety as the torments of an evil conscience are the wages of impiety yet as these do not hinder but that the great reward is given at dooms-day and not before so neither do the joys which the righteous have in the interval They can both consist together and are generally affirm'd by very many of the Greek and Latin Fathers E. W. pag. 36. And methinks this Gentleman might have learn'd from Sixtus Senensis how to have reconcil'd these two opinions for he quotes him saying there is a double beatitude the one imperfect of soul only the other consummate and perfect of soul and body The first the Fathers call'd by several names of Sinus Abrahae Atrium Dei sub Altare c. The other perfect joy the glory of the resurrection c. But it matters not what is said or how it be contradicted so it seem but to serve a present turn But at last if nothing of this will do these words are not the words of Iustin for he is not the Author of the Questions and Answers ad orthodoxos To which I answer it matters not whether they be Iustins or no But they are put together in the collection of his works and they are generally called his and cited under his name and made use of by Bellarmine * Lib. de baptis c. 25. 26. lib. de confirmat c. 5 l. 3. de Euchar. c. 6. when he supposes them to be to his purpose However the Author is Ancient and Orthodox and so esteem'd in the Church and in this particular speaks according to the doctrine of the more Ancient Doctors well but how is this against Purgatory says E. W. P. 36. line 29. for they may be in secret receptacles after they have been in Purgatory To this I answer that he dares not teach that for doctrine in the Church of Rome who believes that the souls deliver'd out of Purgatory go immediately to the heaven of the Blessed and therefore if his book had been worth the perusing by the Censors of books he might have been question'd and followed Mr. Whites fortune And he adds it might be afterwards according to Origens opinion that is Purgatory might be after the day of judgment for so Origen held that all the fires are Purgatory and the Devils themselves should be sav'd Thus this poor Gentleman thinking it necessary to answer one argument against Purgatory brought in the dissuasive cares not to answer by a condemned heresie rather than reason shall be taught by any son of the Church of England But however the very words of the Fathers cross his slippery answers so that they thrust him into a corner for in these receptacles the godly have joy and they enter into them as soon as they die and abide there till the day of judgment S. Ambrose is so full De bono mortis cap. 4. pertinent and material to the Question in hand and so destructive of the Roman hypothesis that nothing can be said against it His words are these therefore in all regards death is good because it divides those that were always fighting that they may not impugne each other and because it is a certain port to them who being toss'd in the sea of this world require the station of faithful rest and because it makes not our state worse but such as it finds every one such it reserves him to the future judgment and nourishes him with rest and withdraws him from the envy of present things and composes him with the expectation of future things E. W. Pag. 34. thinking himself bound to say something to these words answers It is an excellent saying for worse he is not but infinitely better that quit off the occasions of living here is ascertain'd of future bliss hereafter which is the whole drift of the Saint in that Chapter Read it and say afterwards if I say not true It is well put off But there are very many that read him who never will or can examine what S. Ambrose says and withal such he hopes to escape But as to the thing That death gives a man advantage and by its own fault no disadvantage is indeed not only the whole drift of that Chapter but of that whole book But not for that reason only is a man the better for death but because it makes him not worse in order to Eternity nay it does not alter him at all as to that for as death finds him so shall the judgment find him and therefore not purified by Purgatory for such he is reserved and not only thus but it cherishes him with rest which would be very ill done if death carried him to Purgatory Now all these last words and many others E. W. is pleas'd to take no notice of as not being for his purpose But he that pleases to see more may read the 12. and 18. Chapters of the same Treatise S. Gregorie's saying S. Greg. Nazianz orat 15. in plagam grandiâ—is 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that after this life there is