you Marke howe Paul deliuered the man of Corinth to Satan Eijciebatur nempe a communi fidelium caetu hee was cast out of the congregation of the faythfull hee was cutte off from the flocke of Christ and left naked and being so destitute of Gods helpe hee lay open to the Wolfe and subiect to euerie assault So sayth Theodorete By this place where Paul deliuered the incestuous Corinthian to Satan we are taught that the diuell inuadeth them which are seuered cut off from the bodie of the church finding them destitute of Gods grace Keepe your selues therefore within your limites Pastors haue their charge which is as S. Paul noteth to watch ouer soules they haue not to doe with the goods or bodies of the faithfull Their goods are Caesars by the plaine resolution of our Sauiour Giue vnto Caesar the thinges which are Caesars Which God willed Samuel to aduertise the people of when they first demaunded a king Shew them the right or law of the king that shall raigne ouer them And so Samuel did saying This shall be the law of your king He shall take your sonnes and appoint them for his charets and to be his horsemen shal make theÌ„ captaines ouer thowsandes captaines ouer fiftyes set them to eare his grounds to reape his haruest to make his instruments of war things to serue for his charets And he wil take your fields vines best olyues giue them to his seruants And he wil take the tenth of your corn wine giue it to his Princes seruitors And he wil take your men seruaÌ„ts maideseruants the choice of your yong meÌ„ your asses vse theÌ„ to his work The tenth of your sheep wil he take ye shal be his seruaÌ„ts Phi. Make you the king Lord of al without exception Theo. Though God neuer ment that Princes inordinate priuate pleasures should wast consume the wealth of their Realmes yet may they iustly commaunde the goods and bodies of all their Subiects in time both of warre and peace for any publike necessitie or vtilitie Whereby God declareth Princes and not Pastours to bee the right ouerseers of temporall and earthlie matters and consequentlie that the power of the keyes extendeth not to those thinges which are committed to the Princes charge I meane neither to the goods nor to the bodies of christian men To a king sayth Chrysostom are the bodies of men committed to the Priest their soules The king pardoneth corporall offences the Priest remitteth the guiltinesse of sinne The king compelleth the Priest exhorteth the one with force the other with aduise the kings weapons are sensible the Priâ—stes are Ghostly The like distinction betweene them doth S. Hierom make Rex nolentibus praest Episcopus volentibus ille timore subijcit hic seruituti donatur ille corpora custodit ad mortem hic animas seruat ad vitam The king ruleth men vnwilling the Priest none saue the willing the king hath his in subiection with terrour the Priest is appointed for the seruice of his the king mastereth their bodies with death but the Priest preserueth their soules to life This power of the sword our Sauiour precisely prohibited his Apostles as I haue shewed and therefore you may not indirectly nor by accident chalenge it Phi. Why then did Paul saie Knowe you not that wee shall iudge the Angels howe much more secular matters Theo. If this bee the best hold you haue in the new Testament for secular matters you must take the paynes to light from your horse and goe on your feete as well as your neighbours For the Apostle speaketh that of all Christians which you restraine to Priests and moueth the parties striuing rather to make their brethren arbiters of their quarrelles than to persue one an other before Infidels What grant is this to you in your owne right to bee iudges ouer your brethren in all secular affaires and not onely without their consents to determine their griefes but also to bereaue them of their goods and lands and afflict their bodies yea to pull the sword out of Princes handes take their Crownes from their heades when the rulers are beleeuers as well as the Preachers Do you not know saith S. Paul that the Saincts not onely Priests shal iudge the world If the world then shal be iudged by you speaking to all that were of the church at Corinth are ye vnworthy to iudge the smalest matters He saith not it was their right to iudge secular matters but they were worthy to bee trusted with them whom God would trust with greater and shewing that hee spake this of the people not of the Priests he saith If then you haue any iudgementes concerning the thinges of this life make euen the contemptible in the church your iudges Hee saith not God hath made them your iudges but rather thaÌ„ your contending brabling about earthly things which you professe to contemn should be knowen to Ethniks such as hate deride both Christ you your selues make the meanest of your brethren whom you will your iudges Nowe ioyne your conclusion ergo the Pope hath authority to dispose the goods lands and liues of all the faithâ—ul euen of Princes theÌ„selues be they neuer so iust or religious Magistrates and see what a non sequitur you conclude out of S. Pauls wordes Phi. The Primatiue church vnderstood this place of Priests and Bishops as appeareth by Sainct Augustine complaining of the tumultuous perplexities of other mens causes in secular matters to the which troubles sayth he the Apostle hath fastened vs. 1. Corinth 5. The like hee witnesseth of S. Ambrose at Millan And S. Gregory reporteth the same of himselfe at Rome Theo. Trueth it is the Bishoppes of the Primatiue church were greatly troubled with those matters not as ordinarie iudges of those causes but as arbiters elected by the consent of both parties And I coulde requite you with Gregories owne wordes of the same matter in the same place Quod certum est nos non debere which it is certaine we ought not to do but yet I thinke so long as it did not hinder their vocation function though it were troublesome vnto them they might neither in charitie nor in dutie refuse it because it tended to the preseruing of peace loue amongest meÌ„ And the Apostle had licenced all men to choose whom they woulde in the church for their iudges no doubt meaning that they which were chosen shoulde take the paynes to heare the cause and make an ende of the strife But it is one thing to make peace between brethren as they did by heaping their griefes with consent of both sides and an other thing to claime a iudiciall interest in those causes in spite of mens heartes Which wrong you shoulde not offer the least of your brethren much lesse may you
your owne fellowes haue reported lamented in no worse than the fountaines of your faith and heads of your Church I wil not say the refues of England but euen the Priests of Baal and Bacchus were Saints in comparison of so lewd and intolerable monsters Stephanus the sixt and Sergius the third pulled Formosus their predecessor out of his graue the one cutting off his fingers the other his head and cast his carkas into Tybris Iohn the twelfth gaue orders in a stable amongst his horses abused his fathers concubine made his pallace a stues put out his Ghostly fathers eyes gelded one of his Cardinals ranne about in armes to set howses on fiar drank to the diuel and at dise called for help of Iupiter and Venus Boniface the seuenth getting the Popedom by il meanes robbed Saint Peters church of al the Iewels pretious things he could find ranne his waies returning not long after caught one of his Cardinals put out his eies Syluester the seconde leauing his Monasterie betooke himselfe wholly to the diuel by whose help he gate to be Pope on this condition that after his death he should be the diuels both bodie and soule Benedict the ninth sold his Popedome to Gregorie the sixt and was therefore worthily blamed of all men and by Gods iudgement condemned For it is certaine that after his death he appeared in an ougly shape with the head and taile of an asse the body of a beare and being asked what that horrible sight ment because saith he whiles I was Pope I liued like a beast without law without reason defiling the Chaire of Peter with al kind of lewdnes Of Gregorie the seuenth and his adherents Beno the cardinal writeth thus Let these hypocrites hold their peace that haue disgraced almost drouned the name of blessed Peter by cloking the flames of their malice vnder a colour of Catholicisme pretēce of iustice Let these false prophets be astonished that are curteous in shew scorpiōs in sting wolues vnder lambs skinnes killing the bodies deuouring the soules of men with the sword of their mouth whose religion sauoureth nothing but of traiterousnes and couetousnes entring the houses of widowes they lead women captiues that bee loden with sinnes and by reason of our troublesome times giue eare to spirits of error and doctrines of diuels which Hildebrand their captain learned of his maisters Benedict the ninth and Gregorie the sixt Gregorie the ninth as Vrspergensis cōplaineth taking occasion by the Emperours absence that was fighting against the Turke sent a great armie into Apulia and inuaded subdued the Emperours dominions being thē in the seruice of Christ a fact most hainous and did his best both in Apulia and Lumbardie to hinder such as were going that viage from passing the Sea seeking thereby to betray the Christian Emperour his armie to the Turke Yea the men of Verona Millan would suffer none to passe by their coasts spoyling the very souldiers that were sent to fight against the Turke and that by the cōmandement of the Pope as they affirmed which alas is horrible to be spoken Who rightly considering wil not lament and detest these things as portending and foreshewing the ruine of the Church Mathewe Paris giueth Innocentius the 3. this commendation King Iohn saith he knew and by often experience had tried that the Pope aboue al mortal men was ambitious and proude an vnsatiable thirster after money and easie to be drawen and induced to all wickednes by gifts or promises Sixtus the fourth made his playfelow Cardinal who was wont to weare cloth of gold at home in his house to ease nature in stooles of siluer and to deck his harlot Tiresia with shoes couered with pearle as Agrippa reporteth he built a sumpteous stewes in Rome appointing it to be both masculine and feminine and making a gaine of that beastly trade As Vuesselus Gronnigensis sayth he gaue the whole familie of the Cardinal of S. Luce free leaue in Iune Iulie August to vse that which nature abhorreth God in Sodome reuenged with fire and brimstone One of your owne side perceiuing the lothsomnes of his life maketh the diuel giue him this entertaynment in hell At tu implume caput cui tanta licentia quondam Femineos fuit in coitus tua furta putabas Hic quoque praetextu mitrae impunita relinqui Sic meruit tua faeda venus sic prodigia in omnem Nequitiam ad virtutis opus tua auara libido But thou thou bauld pate which hast so licentiously defiled thy self with women didst thou thinke thy secrete sinnes by reason of thy myter shoulde here goe vnpunished Receiue the rewarde of thy filthie pastimes so hath thine outragious lust to all lewdnes and voyde of all goodnes deserued It is too shameful that Iohannes Iouianus Pontanus writeth of Lucretia the daughter of Alexander the sixt Hoc tumulo dormit Lucretia nomine sedre Thais Alexandri filia sponsa nurus Here lyeth Lucretia in name in deede a shamelesse whore the daughter of Pope Alexander her fathers brothers harlot The fact so horrible that it were not credible if others did not confirme the same I will trouble chast eares no longer with this vnsauory repetition These disorders of Popes if you weigh them well be more than scandalous giue you smal cause to vaunt of your vertues Phi. These be the things that we told you were more false than Esops fables Theo. It were reason you shoulde proue them false before you reiect them as fables men of your owne sect and side laying thē down for truths in their writings you may not now take vpō you to pronounce them fables lest your credite be called in question your selues reputed to bee worse than lyars These things be they true bee they false wee report them as we find them in your owne stories not your aduersaries but your welwillers were the first autors of them And vnlesse wee see some surer ground than your bare deniall we may better charge you with open flatterie than you may them with wilful forgerie Phi. The number is not great though y◠matters were true Theo. The rest of their outrages if I would recken namely their schismes cōtentions tumults for the Popedom their ambition presumption oppression briberie periurie tyrannie pride craft hypocrisie to conclude their garboyles battailes and bloodshed an whole volume would not suffice And where you make your Clergie so free from scandals heare what men of former times and of your owne side haue spoken and written of your Bishops Priests Monkes and others Bernard of his age Behold saith he these times very much defiled with the worke that walketh in darknes Wo bee to this generation because of the leauen of Pharisees which is hypocrisie If it may be called hypocrisie which is now so rife that it can not and so shamelesse that
opinion is common but not currant with vs If you meane to proue it you shall haue the longer and stiller audieÌ„ce Phi. S. Peter being but a meere spiritual officer and Pastor of mens soules yet for sacrilege and simulation stroke dead both man and wife S. Paul stroke blind Elymas the Magician So did he threaten to come to his contemners in rod of discipline So did be excoÌ„municate a Principal person in Corinth for incest not only by spiritual punishment but also by bodily vexation giuing him vp to Satans chastisement As he corporally also corrected and molested with an euill spirit Himeneus and Alexander for blasphemie and heresie Finally he boldly auoucheth that his power in God is to reuenge al disobedience and to bring vnder all loftie hearts to the loialtie of christ and of the Apostles and Sainctes in this life Nescitis quoth he quoniam Angelos iudicabimus quanto magis secularia knowe you not that wee shall iudge Angels how much more secular matters Theo. Such dissolute mariners were neuer like but to make such desperate aduentures You shoulde proue that spirituall Pastours haue power to sease the goods and possessions and chastise the bodies of such as they excommunicate and you shewe where God afflicted those for their sinnes which the Apostles cast out of the Church either with euill spirites or some corporall plague or death as hee sawe cause which is not pertinent to your purpose Can you not distinguish the finger of God from the factes of men Or see you no difference between miraculous vengeance from heauen and iudicial processe on earth God strake Ananias dead for tempting him in Peter and Elymas for resisting him in Paul May Preachers therefore putte out mens eyes and murther such as beleeue them not In deede you practise this new kinde of preaching but not by warrant from Christ or his Apostles Philand Did not Peter kill Ananias and Sapphira with his worde Theo. And since you can not do the like with your words you will take helpe of your handes Phi. With wordes or handes so they bee slaine all is one Theo. Not so The one is a miracle wrought by God the other is a murder committed by man which God prohibiteth and of all other thinges ought to bee farthest from the Preachers of peace Phi. Peter did so Theo. Peter reproued them for tempting the holie Ghost but the hande of God and not of Peter inflicted the punishment Reade the place Then saide Peter Ananias why hath Satan filled thine heart that thou shouldest he vnto the holie Ghost Thou hast not lied vnto men but vnto God Nowe when Ananias hearde these words saith the Scrâ—pture hee fell downe and gaue vppe the Ghost I aske not what faâ—t of Peters you finde that shoulde hasten the death of Ananias but what one worde purporting any such thing can you shewe vs in all that Peter saide to Ananias Phi. In his wordes to Sapphira wee can For hee saide to her The feete of them that haue buried thine husband are at the doore and shall carrie thee out Theo. Did Peter by these words kill her or foretell her that God would doe to her as hee had doone to her husbande Phi. Which say you Theo. Peter we say neither desired nor inflicted that iudgement on them but onely signified what God would doe The like we saie for Paul when Elymas was stroken blind He warned that Sorcerer what should befall him from God but himselfe did neither enuie nor iniurie the Sorcerers eyes His wordes were Wilt thou not cease to peruert the streight waies of the Lord Now therefore behold the hand of the Lord is vpon thee and thou shalt be blind not seeing the Sunne for a time Paul denounced Paul imposed not that corporall chastisement on him The deede was Gods who may iustly take from his enemies not onely their eies but their breathes and spirits when he wil and in what sort it pleaseth best his righteous and sacred wisedome Phi. But Paul himselfe corporallie corrected and molested with an euill spirite Himineus and Alexander for blasphemie and heresie So did he excommunicate a Principal Person in Corinth for incest not onely by spiritual punishment but also by bodilie vexation giuing him vp to Satans chastisement Theo. You drawe the word of God to your fansies by turning doubtes into certaineties antecedentes into consequentes mans actions into Gods iudgementes That the Apostle deliuered Himineus and Alexander vnto Satan and so the incestuous Corinthian whom you of your owne head without any witnesse call a Principal Person in Corinth because the slide you saw was easie from Principall to Princes is a matter out of question but that he corporally corrected and molested them with euil spirites these be your additamentes wherewith you thought to lengthen the text to your own liking Phi. S. Paul gaue iudgement of the Corinthian that he should bee deliuered vnto Satan for the destruction of the flesh And how could the flesh be destroied without bodily vexation affliction The. This phrase for the destruction of the flesh hath diuerse expositions therefore vpon a doubtful kinde of speech you can not build an vndouted conclusion S. Ambrose expoundeth the place thus The Apostle decreed that by the consent in the presence of all men he should be cast out of the Church Cum eijcitur traditur Satanae in interitum carnis Et anima enim corpus intereunt His casting him out of the Church is the deliuering of him to Satan to the destruction of the whole man which is nothing but flesh For both soule and bodie perish And lest you shoulâ— thinke it much that the soule is called fleshe he giueth this reason Victa anima libidine carnis fit caro the soule once ouercome by the lustes of the flesh becommeth flesh and is in the Scripture so commonly called the lusts of the flesh deliuereth the soule defiled with it and also the body to hell Phi. But S. Paul addeth that the spirite may bee saued in the day of our Lord Iesus Christ which can not stand with this exposition that both fleshe spirit were deliuered vnto perdition Theo. The same father will tell you that the spirit may be referred not to him that was excluded but to the rest that remained in the church as if S. Paul should haue saide I haue decreed to cast this vncleane person out from among you to his iust condemnation that the grace of Gods spirit may be preserued in the rest of you to the day of iudgement The same Sainct Augustine followeth What spirite doeth the Apostle affirme shoulde bee preserued when he saieth I haue deliuered that man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh c. The destruction of the flesh ment in this place is a man addicted to pleasures and fleshly delightes purchaseth hell to himselfe For by such sinnes the whole man becommeth
reuerent estimation regard of them that they be not despised or abused although they be but signes So that water in baptism and the creatures of breade and wine in the Lordes supper which are the two examples here mentioned are to be reuerenced as things that be sacred by the word and ordinaÌ„ce of God but not to be adored and honored for the things themselues whose signes they are that were a miserable seruitude or rather the right death of the soule as Austen noteth And that the first teachers of truth remoued al Images as vnprofitable signes to serue God with the words before do plainly shew For speaking of the difference between the Iewes and the Gentils when they should be conuerted vnto Christ he saith ChristiaÌ„ liberty finding the Iewes vnder profitable signes to wit the rites Ceremonies of the Lawe did interprete the meaning of them and so by directing the people to the things themselues deliuered them from the seruitude of the signes but finding the Gentiles vnder vnprofitable signes for that they worshipped Images either as Gods or as the signes and resemblaunces of Gods ipsa signa fruâ—trauit remouitque omnia shee wholy remoued and frustrated the signes themselues that is shee would not suffer them to serue the true God with any such signes as bodily shapes and Images were Your honouring of Images is reproued as you see and not releeued by S. Augustines Rule And since the Lawe of God expressely and â—treitly chargeth you not so much as to bowe your bodies or knees to the likenesse of any thing in heauen or earth which is made with handes consult your owne consciences whether you may with your respects frustrate or with your routes ouerbeare the distinct and direct voice of God himselfe in his own Church And if you be not giuen ouer into a reprobate sense you wil say no. Now that which is against the Law of God can neither be Christian nor Catholike Your Doctrine therefore of bowing and kneeling to Images is repugnant both to the precepts of God and to the generall auncient resolution of Christs church your adoring them with diuine honour is a sacrilegious and flagitious as well noueltie as impietie Phi. You must not looke that we should defend the sayings doings of all that haue takeÌ„ part with the church of Rome If Thomas waded too far in worshipping Images if Gerson mistooke S. Augustine if the later Councell of Nice denied or strained some of the ancient Fathers you must not chalenge vs for their ouerâ—ightes The. We chalenge you for vaunting your selues to be Catholikes when in deede you doe nothing but smooth and sleike the corruptions and inuentions of later ages against the right ancient faith of Christs church The discent of Images with their adoration how late it began how often it varied how far at length it swarued froÌ„ the Primatiue original profession of the christiaÌ„ catholik faith we haue spent somtime to examine Let vs now approch to your praiers in a straÌ„ge toung which haue a great deal lesse shew of catholicism thaÌ„ images had yet are as egerly defended by you as images were Phi. In the Latine toung we haue praiers in a strange toung we haue none you rather that haue turned scriptures church seruice secretes for your pleasures into the English tongue make your praiers in a strange and vnwonted speach to catholik earesâ— The. To English meÌ„ the English toung is not strange Phi. I know they vnderstand it but I call it strange because they were not woont to haue the publike praiers of the Church in their mother toung Theo. In cases of religion we must respect not what men haue but what they should haue beene vsed to Cyprian saith well Consuetudo sine veritate vetustas erroris est Custome without trueth is but the long continuance of error so Tertullian Quodcunque aduersus veritatem sapit hoc erit haeresis etiam vetus consuetudo Whatsoeuer is against the trueth it must bee counted heresie though it be an old Custom The Councell of Carthage where Cyprian was resolued thuâ— The Lord saith in the Gospel I am trueth he said not I am custom Trueth therefore appearing let custom yeeld to truth Phi. That councel erred in neglecting the old custom which the church obserued Theo. But yet their generall assertion which I alleage was so strong that S. Augustine saith to those very wordes Plane respondeo quis dubitet veritatis manifestae debere consuetudinem cedere I plainly answere who doubteth but that custom must yeeld to the trueth appearing Phi. Neither doe we doubt of that but how proue you this to be a manifest trueth that the people of this Land must haue their diuine seruice in the English tongue Theo. It is the manifest precept of him that said I am trueth and witnessed in the Scripture which is the worde of trueth Philan. In what place there Theo. Make not your selfe so great a stranger in the Scriptures as if you knew not the place Phi. You meane the 14. Chapter of the first epistle which S Paul wrote to the Church of Corinth Theo. I doe what say you to it Phi. Mary this we say The reader may take a tast in this one point of your deceitfull dealing abusing the simplicitie of the popular by peruerse application of Gods holy word vpon some smale similitude equiuocatioÌ„ of certaine termes against the approued godly vse and trueth of the vniuersall Church for the seruice in the Latine or Greeke tongue which you ignorantly or rather wilfully pretend to be against this discourse of S. Paul touching strange tongues Theo. And hee that marketh your shifting and facing in this one point shall need no farther tast of your dealing Phi. If you like not that which we say refel it Theo. Can your selues tell what you say Phi. You shall well find that when we come to the matter Theo. First then heare what the Apostle saith and after you shal haue leaue to say what you will Instructing the Church of Corinth thus he saith And now brethren if I come to you speaking with strange tongues what shall I profite you If a truÌ„pet giue an vncertaine sound who wil prepare himself to the battel So likewise you by the tongue except you vtter words of easie vnderstanding how shal it be knoweÌ„ what is spoken For you shal speake in the aire There are for example so many kindes of tongues in the worlde and none of them is without sound Except I know the power and signification of the speach I shall be to him that speaketh barbarous and he that speaketh shall be barbarous to me Wherefore let him that speaketh a strange tongue pray thâ—t he may interpret For if I pray in a tongue not vnderstood my spirite praieth but mine vnderstanding is without fruit What is it then I wil pray with the
proper earthly substance when notwithstanding your selues offer thē to God in your masses for the remissiō of your sins redēption of your soules to profit the quick the dead by that oblation You teach the people that nothing is offred by the priest to god the father for remission of sins but Christ his son Your masse where this should be done conuinceth that you sacrifice not Christ but the creatures of bread wine Be you not more thā blind which see not that the praiers which you daily frequent refute the sacrifice which you falsly pretend Phi. As though the ancient fathers did not also say that Christ himself is daily offred in the church Theo. Not in the substance which is your error but in signification which is their doctrine ours Take their interpretation with their words they make nothing for your local external offring of christ Was not Christ saith Austen once sacrificed in himselfe and yet in a sacrament is he offered for the benefite of the people not euery Paschal feast only but euery day Neither doth he lie that whē the questiō is asked him answereth Christ is offred daily For if Sacraments had not a certain similitude of the things wherof they be sacraments they should be no Sacraments at al. And by reason of this similitude they vsually take the names of the things them-selues Christ is offred daily this is true saith Austen but how The communion is a sacrament of the Lords death sacraments haue the names of the things them selues from a certaine resemblance that is betwene them This doctrine differeth much from yours and yet must Austen stand for a christian and Catholike father when you by your patience shall goe for vpstarts Phi. S. Augustine spake this not of the liuely flesh blood of Christ which we sacrifice to god the father by the priests hands for the sins necessities of mē but of his death passiō represented at our masse by the holy mysteries The. In deed S. Augustin spake of that he knew as for your cōceit of sacrificing the liuely flesh blood of Christ in substance vnder the formes of bread wine by the priests hands neither he nor any good author was euer acquainted with it And to say the truth the very spring roote of your error is this that you seek for a sacrifice in the Lords supper besides the Lords death Marke wel the words of Cyprian The passion of the Lord is the sacrifice which we offer Of Ambrose Our high priest is he that offred on the crosse a sacrifice to clense vs the very same we offer now which being then offred cannot be consumed this Sacrifice is a sāplar of that we offer that very sacrifice for euer Of Eusebius Christ after al things ended offred a wōderful oblation most excellent sacrifice on the crosse for the saluation of vs al gaue vs a memorie therof in stead of a sacrifice we therfore offer the remēbrance of that great sacrifice in the mysteries which he deliuered vs. Of Chrysost. Bringing these mysteries we stop the mouthes of those that aske how we proue that Christ was sacrificed on the crosse For if Iesus were not slaine whose signe and token is this sacrifice Of Austen We sacrifice to God in that only manner in which he commanded we should offer to him at the reuealing of the new Testament the flesh and blood of this sacrifice was yeelded in verie trueth when Christ was put to death after his ascention it is now solemnized by a Sacramēt of memorie The verie elements and actions of the Lordes Supper conuince no lesse The bread which we breake what else doth it represent but the Lordes bodie that was broken for vs The cup which we drinke what els doth it resemble saue the Lordes blood that was shed for our sakes When the host is broken and the blood poured out of the cup into the mouthes of the faithfull what other thing saith Prosper is thereby designed than the offering of the Lordes bodie on the crosse and the shedding of his blood from his side As often as you shall eate this bread and drinke of this cup you shewe forth the Lordes death till he come saith Paul There can be no question of this the spirit of god hath spoken it Then if the death of Christ be the sacrifice which the church offreth it is euident that christ is not only sacrificed at this table but also crucified crucified in that selfe same sort sense that he is sacrificed but no man is so mad as to defēd that christ is really put to death in these mysteries ergo neither is he really sacrificed vnder the formes of bread wine which thing your selues haue lately ventered rashly presumed without al antiquity The catholik fathers I can assure you say christ is offered christ is crucified in the Lords supper indifferently So Ierom Christ is euery day crucified to vs. So Chrysostom The death of christ is here performed So Gregory Christ dieth againe in this mysterie his flesh suffreth for the saluation of the people so to conclude Austen The gētiles now through the whole world tast lick the passion of Christ in the sacraments of his body blood If you can expound this you shall not neede to stagger at the rest The church hath no Sacrifice propiciatorie besides the death of her Sauiour and therefore as she doth kill him so she doth offer him in her mysteries If you can not learne by the direction of your own decrees what doctrin was taught in the primatiue church and euen in your own church for 1300. yeres touching this matter The offering of the Lords flesh by the Priests hands is called the passion death and crucifying of Christ Non rei veritate sed significante mysterio Not in precise truth but in a mystical signification or it your gloze delight you rather In this mysterie Christ dieth that is his death is represented his flesh suffereth that is his passion is represented In this very sense Christ is offred daily Chrysostom Do we not offer euery day we do but a memorial of his death We do not offer an other sacrifice but euer the same or rather we continue the remembrance of that sacrifice Ambrose Because we were deliuered by the Lords death we bearing that in mynd do signifie with eating and drinking the flesh and blood that were offred for vs It is a memorial of our redemption Eusebius Christ offered a wonderful sacrifice for the saluatiō of vs al we haue receiued a memorial of that most sacred oblation to be performed at the Lordes table according to the rule of the new testament Augustin Christ is our high priest after the order of Melchisedec which yeelded himself a slain sacrifice for our sinnes and gaue vs a
the thinges themselues whose signes those are Philand It were Theophil Why then since corporall eating serueth only for corporall nourishing and hath a continuall and naturall coherence with it doe you confesse the trueth in the later and not as well in the former part of that action why doe you not expound them both alike Philand To say the immortall fleshe of Christ is conuerted and turned into the quantitie and substaunce of our mortall flesh is an horrible heresie Theophil And so say that his fleshe is eaten with our mouthes and â—awes lâ—â—th in our stomacks is the verie pathway right introduction to that heresie or at least to as brutish and grosse an erour as that is Philand The Fathers affirme that his body is eaten with our mouthes Theophil And so they affirme that his bodie and blood doe increase and augment the substaunce of our mortall and sinnefull bodies Philand But that can not bee Theophil No more can the other Philand Howe shall our bodies rise at the last day if Christes body bee not in them Theophil Our resurrection dependeth not on the act of eating his flesh but of nourishing our fleshe with his as Ireneus telleth vs and the thinges which wee eate are not the causes but as the great Nicene councell admonisheth the pledges of our resurrection Their words be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we must beleeue these to bee the signes or pledges of our resurrection Philand S. Chrysostom earnestly inforceth the eating of Christs flesh And sayth wee doe not onely eate it but euen * fasten our teeth in his fleshe Theo. In deede hee saith so but if you did not auert both your eyes and eares from the trueth you would perceiue by that verie sentence both the maner of his other Fathers speeches of that Sacrament and the right intent of their Doctrine in those cases His wordes are Non se tantum videri permittens desiderantibus sed tangi manducari dentes carni suae infigi desiderio sui omnes impleri Christ suffering himselfe not only to bee seene of those that are desirous but to bee touched and eaten and our teeth to bee fastned in his flesh and all to be satisfied of their longing after him Phi. Lord me thinketh these words be verie plain words He suffereth our teeth to bee fastned in his fleshe Theo. Uerie plaine they bee but very false also vnlesse you either take the flesh of Christ for the signe called by that name or else referre teeth and biting to the soule and faith of the â—â—ward man aâ— wel as you do the eyes hands wherewith we see him touch him Phi. Look what an â—â—â—sion you haue since gotten Theo. Nay looke what a subuersion of all truth and saith you be since fallen to Phi. Doth not this Father say wee fasten our teeth in his flesh Theo. Doeth hee not also say We see him with our eyes touch him with our handes Phi. That is referred to our faith as S. Ambrose teacheth Fide Christus videtur side Christus tangitur By faith Christ is seene by fayth Christ is touched Theoph. And why shall not the next which is more vnlikely to bee true bee referred to faith as well as the former Sainct Ambrose likewise saying Comedat te cor meuÌ„ panis sancte panis viue panis munde veni in cor meum intra in animam meam Let mine heart eate thee O holy bread O liuing bread O pure-bread come into my heart enter into my soule and Cyprian calling it the proper norishment of the spirite besides infinite others that for a thowsande yeares taught that doctrine in the church of God not your gutturall eating of Christ with teeth and iawes Phi. Was your maner of eating Christes fleshe which you defende in the sacrament taught in the church for a thowsande yeares Theop. Euen ours was and when yours came first to be proposed your schoolemen ran euery man his way fighting and scratching one an other â—ho should fal fastest and farthest from the truth Philand Blush you not to auouch two such monsterous lies Theop. A lyar will easily suspect any man as knowing him-selfe to delight in lies but GOD bee thanked that lyes with you bee truethes with vs and with all that haue any knowlegde of GOD or care of his truth The things which I affirmed be manifest truethes and such as you will blush at for verie shame if you be not sworne to your holie Father against Christ as well as you bee against your Prince Origen commenting vppon these wordes of the Supper this is my bodie this is my blood this breade sayeth hee which Christ confesseth to bee his bodie is the worde that nourisheth our soules and this drinke which hee confesseth to bee his blood is the worde that moysteneth and passinglie cheereth the heartes of such as drinke it Thou which art come vnto Christ sticke not in the blood of his fleshe but rather learne the blood of his worde and heare him saying to thee this is my blood which shall bee shedde for the remission of your sinnes Hee that is partaker of the mysteries knoweth the flesh and blood of the worde of God For the bread is the word of righteousnesse which our soules eating are nourished with and the drink is the worde of the knowledge of Christ according to the mysterie of his birth and death The blood of the Testament is poured into our heartes for the remission of our sinnes Athanasius Howe fewe men woulde his bodie haue sufficed that this shoulde bee the foode of the whole worlde Yea therefore doeth bee warne them of his ascension into heauen that he might drawe him from thinking on his bodie and they thereby learne that the flesh which he spake of was celestiall meate from aboue and spirituall nourishment to bee giuen by him The wordes which I spake to you are spirite and life which is as much as if hee had sayde this bodie which is in your sight and delyuered to death for the worlde shall bee giuen you for meate that it may bee spiritually distributed in euery one of you and be an assuraunce and preseruatiue to raise you to eternall life Cyprian writing of the Lordes Supper Eating and drinking saieth hee bee referred to the one and same end with the which as the substance of our bodies is increased and preserued so the life of the spirite is maintained with his proper nourishment What foode is to the fleshe that faith is to the soule what meate is to the body that the worde is to the spirite working euerlastingly with a more excellent vertue that which bodily meates doe for a time and vntill a season Ambrose approaching to the sacred communion which you intitle a prayer preparing to Masse amongest other thinges speaketh thus to Christ himselfe Thou Lord saydst with thine holy and blessed mouth the bread
earthly cogitations of the mysticall elements and to stir them rather to marke in this Sacrament the wonderfull power and effects of Gods spirit and grace than the base condition and naturall digestion of bread and wine Phi. Would S. Chrysostom haue vs thinke the mysteries to bee consumed vnlesse in deede they were consumed Theo. His directing our cogitations for religion and reuerence rather to the inward force than outward appearance of the mysteries doeth not chaunge the sensible qualities of bread and wine whereof hee spake much lesse the substance alone whereof he spake not but draweth the receiuers from that which their eyes behold to that which by faith they beleeue to the secreter and diuiner part of the Sacrament not abolishing the one but preferring the other as more worthy to be considered and desired by the commers to the Lordes table And in this sense he willeth the people not to thinke that the Priest is a man in the verie next wordes that followe without line or letter betwixt Wherefore approaching to the Lordes table doe not thinke that you receiue the diuine body at the handes of a man but that you take a fierie coale by the Seraphims tongues which Esay sawe in his vision Can this be Chrysostoms meaning that in act and verie deede the Priest is changed into a Seraphim his hand into a paire of tongs the body of Christ into a coale of fire Except you be past your fiue wits you wil say no yet Chrysostom in the same place perswadeth the cōmunicants so to think as he did before that the mysteries were consumed by the substance or presence of Christs body Then if the latter wordes inferre no such chaunge why should the former If you be not so foolish as to mistake the second part of this sentence why be you so wilfull as to peruert the first vttered at the same time to the same purpose with the verie same phrase of speach Chrysostomes intent is no more to transsubstantiate the bread than the priest or the bodie of Christ but with vehement amplifications as his manner is he perswadeth the people to come to the Lordes table with no lesse reuerence than if they were to receiue a fierie coale as Esay did in his vision from one of the glorious Seraphims And to this end also doth he kendle them what he can not to be basely minded and affected toward the mysteries as if they were onely bread and wine in that sort to passe through the bellie with other meates but to prepare their hartes and to lift them vp to God as they promised to doe when the Priest saide lift vp your minds and harts they made answere we lift them vp vnto the Lord. These wordes therefore force no reall mutation in the thinges receiued but leade the receiuers from thinking on the weake creatures which they see to the mighty power of Gods graces which they see not and this is done with a religious cōsideration not with any monsterous transubstantiation or annihilation of the sacred mysteries Phi. S. Cyrill of Ierusalem saith Know you for a suerty that this bread which is seene of vs is not bread though the tast find it to be bread but the body of Christ. And so Theophilact It appeareth to bee bread but it is fleshe Theo. The first authors of this speach were late writers as Theophilact or lately set foorth by your fellowes not without great suspition as Cyrill of Ierusalem and the speech it selfe doth somwhat vary from the stile both of the Scriptures and fathers which acknowledge this mysterie to be bread wine The bread which we breake saith Paul is it not the communion of Christes body We all are partakers of one bread As often as you eate of this bread drink of this cup you shew the Lords death til he come Let a man examine himselfe and so let him eate of this bread and drink of this cup. And our Sauiour in the Gospell speaking of the cup I will not drinke hencefoorth of this fruit of the vine Tertul. Christ hath not euen at this day reiected the water of the creator by which he doth wash his nor the bread by the which hee doth represent his verie body Clemens Alexandrinus This is my blood euē the blood of the grape Cyprian We find it was wine which the Lord called his blood The Lord called his body bread kneaded togither of many cornes and his blood wine pressed out of many clusters of grapes Origen The Lords bread according to the materiall partes thereof goeth into the belly and so foorth by the draught Austen As the men of God before vs did expound this the Lord commended his body blood in those things which are made one of many For the first is kneaded of many cornes into one lumpe the other is pressed of many clusters into one liquour That then which you saw is bread which also your eyes can tell you Cyrill of Alexandria To the beleeuing Disciples Christ gaue peeces of breade saying take eate this is my body Hesychius Hee meaneth that mystery which is both breade and fleshe The phrase it selfe therefore It is not bread sauoreth of later ages and writers and crosseth that course of speeche which both Scriptures and Fathers obserued and yet if you suffer them to declare their owne mindes they may soone be reconciled to the rest Theophilact expressing the same point in other wordes saieth Speciem quidem panis vini seruat in virtutem autem carnis sanguinis transelementat Christ keepeth the shape or kind of bread and wine but changeth thē into the vertue of his body and blood Cyrill openeth his owne saying more at large The bread of the Eucharist after the inuocation of the holy Ghost is nowe no more common bread but the bodie of Christ. In the new Law the heauenly bread and cup of saluation sanctifie both soule and bodie As the bread serueth for the bodie so doth the word for the soule Thinke not therefore of the Sacrament as of bare bread and bare wine it is the body and blood of Christ according to the Lordes owne wordes And although sense tell thee this that is bare bread and wine yet let faith confirme thee neither iudge them by tast but rather by faith assure thy selfe without all doubt that the body and blood of Christ are giuen vnto thee This assertion we grant is right and good and this intent had hee when hee said the bread which is seene is no bread meaning no common no bare bread In which assertion other ancient Fathers concurre with him Iustinus Wee receiue not these thinges as a common vsual bread or accustomed drink but we be taught that the food blessed by praier of the worde receiued from him is the fleshe and blood of that Iesus which tooke fleshe for our sakes Ireneus
skirmish and arming your selues with three scriptures and seuen fathers you thinke to vanquish and ouerrunne the Princes power in causes ecclesiasticall but soft Sirs you mistake your weapons their force is not great The nation and kingdome sayth God to Sion that wil not serue thee shal perish The kingdome he sayth not the king but graunt it were directly spoken of kings what seruice that is which God requireth of kings if you doe not knowe S. Austen will tel you In this sayth he Kings serue God if their kingdomes they command that which is good and forbid that which is euill not in temporall affayres onely but in matters of religion also And againe Yee Kings serue Christ in making lawes for Christ. So that the cōmanding their people to reuerence the word and obey the will of God and the making of strait lawes to keepe men in the faith and Church of Christ that is I say the seruice which Princes owe to God and his Sion and which you deny lawful for them to medle with By the two next places of S. Paul you prone that Pastors Bishops be rulers of the Church That worde Rulers you catch hold of as if the wordes in S. Paul did not also signifie feeders and leaders which be the two signes and dueties of good shepheards and yet we neuer denied but the messengers and disposers of Gods mysteries by preaching the woord administring the sacraments and well vsing the keyes haue their internall and spirituall regiment ouer the soules and consciences as wel of Princes as others which is the true meaning of the place that you bring out of Nazianzene Athanasius Osius Leontius Hilarie and Ambrose sharply reproue Constantius Valentinian for taking vpon them to chaunge the faith abolish the godhead of Christ plainely told those Princes they were no iudges of faith nor arbiters of doctrine which was true which false neither might they so much as interpose their iudgement or authoritie whiles such cases were debated That very lesson haue wee from the beginning taught with our lippes sealed with our blood more stedfastly than you We neuer gaue prince nor Pope right to controle the trueth or reuerse the worde which God hath established in his Church and the constant auouching thereof against earthly States powers hath cost vs as you can not choose but knowe many thousande mens liues Yet this is no let but Princes as well as other priuate persons may trie spirits and beware false Prophets And this I trust you dare not impugne that Princes may doe that for Christ which you defend they must do for Antichrist graunt vs that we require no more Chrysostome is the last of the seuen Christ sayth he when he willed Peter to feede his sheepe cōmitted the charge of them to Peter Peters successors Meaning by Peters successors not onely the bishops of Rome but him selfe and all other Bishops as appeareth by his owne words in the same place This was Christes purpose at that time when he sayd feede my sheepe to teach Peter and the rest of vs howe well he loued his Church that therefore we also should take the charge and care of the same Church with al our hearts Ambrose extendeth the wordes of Christ in like manner to al Bishops preachers It was thrise repeated by the Lord feed my sheepe Which sheepe which flocke not onely Peter receiued then in charge but he with vs and wee all with him receiued them in cure And so doth Austen When it is said to Peter it is said to all Louest thou me Feede my sheepe That women may not vndertake this charge to feede Christs sheepe it was needelesse to cite Chrysostome S. Paul sayde it before in other wordes and wee bee farre from any such follie These bee the maine and mightie proofes wherewith you thought to shake the Princes seate which conclude vtterly nothing against that we defende nor against that her Maiestie claymeth or vseth The rest of your authorities which be sixe touch not vs at all nor any thing in question betwixt you and vs saue the last where S. Hierom writeth to Damasus He that gathereth not with thee scattereth Which words we graunt were very true when S. Hierom spake them for that Damasus rightly professed the Christian fayth which the Bishop of Rome now doeth not and by gathering with him is ment no subiection to him but a felowship with him in teaching the same trueth and keeping the bande of peace which is common to all Christians Your fift chapter which should cleere you from false doctrine and proue you to be good Catholiques hath in all but one Section of twentie sixe lines to that purpose the rest is a desperate discourse of your owne full of your bolde assertions vayne presumptions without scripture or father that helpeth you or hindereth vs. For prayer for the dead you alledge S. Augustine for honouring of Kelikes and Pilgrimage S Hierom for vocation of Saints worshipping the crosse and memories of Martyrs S. Cyril for the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Chrysostome for the corporall presence of Christ in the Sacrament the Lateran Councell for Images the second Councel of Nice Gregorie to Serenus and Damascene for the power of Priesthood to remit sinnes S. Ambrose A weake foundation to beare so great a frame Cyril Chrysostome and Ambrose in the places which you quote teache nothing lesse than those errors and abuses which you mayntaine The seconde Councell of Nice was very neere 800 the Lateran Councell aboue a thousand yeres after Christ both too yong to make any doctrine Catholique Gregorie liketh that stories should be painted in the Church but adoration of thē he detesteth which yet that wicked Councell of Nice did after establish Damascene you may take backe againe his credite is so smale that we neede not answere him S. Hierom is hoat against Vigilantius and so hoat that Erasmus is faine to say Conuiciis debacchatur Hieronimus Hierom rayleth without measure Yet the most honour that he gaue to the bodies or ashes of Martyrs by whom God after their deaths wrought great miracles was to be fairely wrapt and honestly kept in their Chappels The tending of tapers and setting vp of waxe candles before them he denieth to be vsed in the Church in other places if any such thing were he imputeth it to the vnskilfulnesse and simplicitie of some Lay men and deuout women that had zeale but not according to knowledge What is this for your defence You make newe Relikes you set foorth vnshamefast Legends and deuise false miracles to deceiue the people you giue them Pardons for manie thowsande thowsande yeeres you promise them helpe in all their needes and effect in all their desires you make a very marte of the graces and gyftes of God to cause men to runne from place to place from Saint to Saint
cause I say of fayth Bishops are wont to iudge of Christian Emperours not Emperours of Bishoppes And where Valentinian required Ambrose to yeeld his Church depart whither hee woulde for yeelding his Church his answere was Nec mihi fas est tradere nec tibi accipere Imperator expedit Domum priuati nullo potes iure temerare domum dei existimas auferendam Allegatur imperatori licere omnia ipsius esse vniuersa Respondeo It is neither lawfull for mee to yeeld it nor expedient for you O Emperour to take it The house of a priuate man you can not by right inuade doe you thinke you may take away the house of God by violence It is alleaged the Emperour may do what hee will all things are his I answere Doe not burden your selfe O Emperour to thinke you haue any Emperiall right ouer those thinges which bee Gods Exalt not your selfe so high but if you will raigne long bee subiect to God Palaces pertayne to Emperours Churches to Priests The Church is Gods it ought not to be yeelded by mee to Cesar. The temple of God can not bee Cesars right I can not deliuer that which I receiued to keepe in Gods behalfe to heretiks Would God it were apparant to me that my church should not be deliuered to the Arrians I would willingly offer my self to the iudgement of your highnes Would God it were decreed that no Arrian should trouble my Churches and of my Person pronounce what sentence you will With my consent I will neuer forgoe my right if I bee compelled I haue no way to resist I can sorow I can weepe I can sigh teares are my weapons Priests haue only those defences by other meanes I neither ought nor can resist Flee forsake my church I vse not lest any thinke it done to auoyde some sorer punishment If my goods bee sought for take them if my body I will be ready Will you put me in Irons or lead me to death You shal do me a pleasure I wil not gard my self with multitudes of people I wil not flee to the altar to intreat for life but wil gladly be sacrificed for the altars of god Depart Ambrose would not thereby to saue himselfe leaue his Church to Arians the Emperour should banish him or els he would not forsake his flocke I could wish you had not sent me word to go whither I would I came euery day abroad I had no gard about me You should haue appointed me whither you would Now the rest of the Priests say to me there is no difference whether thou be content to relinquish or thy selfe yeelde vp the altar of Christ for when thou doest forsake it thou doest deliuer it If a strong hande remoue me from my Church my flesh may bee caried thence my minde shall not Betray my Church I cannot but fight I ought not These answeres bee full of humilitie and as I thinke full of that affection and reuerence which a Bishoppe should beare to a prince Wee see the groundes that Ambrose stood on resolued rather to suffer any death than by his consent or departure to betray the Church of Christ into the handes of Auxentius the Arrian His meaning was not with violence to resist or with pride to despise the yong prince but either to die with his flocke or at least to bee remoued from his flocke by the princes power without his own cōsent because it were sinne in him to resigne or leaue the house of God as a pray for heretikes vnlesse he were thereunto compelled and forced against his will Phi. I thereby gather that Princes may not meddle with Churches without the Bishoppes assent Theo. You may thereby well collect that Bishoppes were better to giue their lyues than yeelde their churches for Christ to bee blasphemed in except they bee constrained Phi. The Bishoppe refused though the Prince commanded Theo. Hee refused to put his consent to the Princes will but hee resisted not the Princes power Phi. No thankes in that hee could not Theo. Yes great thankes in that hee would not when all the citizens of Millan tooke part with him and the souldiers denyed to wayte on the Emperour to any other church but onely to that where he was and greater obedience in that hee confessed he should not Aliter nec debeo nec possum resistere otherwise than by teares and sighes I neyther ought nor can resist and likewise hee commended the people for saying Regamus Auguste non pugnamus wee make request O Soueraigne wee make no tumult So that Ambrose in these wordes which you bring doth not generally dislike that Princes should meddle with religion or make Lawes for Christ but first affirmeth which wee confesse that Princes be no iudges of faith and next auoucheth that his refusall to deliuer his Church to the handes of Arrians was no stubburnnes against the Prince but obedience to God whose house it was and that he could not consent to betray the same to Gods enemies but hee should highly displease and offend God in so doing By this you may proue that wee must obey God before man and that al Pastours ought rather to giue their liues than their consents that heretikes shoulde inuade their flockes but against the Princes authoritie to commaund for trueth and punish error by the wordes or deedes of Ambrose for ought that I see you can conclude nothing Phi. Hee reporteth and commendeth the wordes of Valentinian the elder the father of this yong Valentinian Non est meum iudicare inter episcopos It is not for me to iudge among Bishops Theo. He gaue the yong Prince to vnderstand what a weightie matter it was To sit iudge betweene Bishoppes in cases of fayth and not among Bishoppes as you translate it in that his father a man of ripe yeres great wisedome and good experience refused this as a burden too heauie for him And what if the question betwixt the christians and Arrians were so intricate that Valentinian durst not take vpon him to discusse or determine the same is that any reason to proue that princes may not establish trueth and abolish falshood by their publike Lawes Phi. Was that the matter wherein Valentinian refused to bee iudge betweene the Bishoppes Theo. Euen that if you dare beleeue the storie of the Church For The Bishops of Hellespontus and Bithinia sayth Sozomene and as many as professed the sonne of God to be of the same substance with his father sent Hypatianus in a legacie to Valentinian the Emperour to request him that he would permit them to meete in a Councell to correct the Doctrine which trobled the Church When Hypatianus came to him declared the petition of the Bishops Valentinian aswered For me that am a Lay man I think it not lawful to search curiously such deepe matters let the priests that haue charge of these things meete where they like best among themselues This fearefulnes of Valentinian
inter se habuerunt were this notwithstanding ioyned in communion pacem in vniuersa Ecclesia tum seruantes tum non seruantes retinuerunt and both sides kept the band of peace in the Catholike Church For the discrepant obseruation of fasting before Easter he saith the like Alij vnum sibi diem ieiunandum esse putant alij duos alij plures alij quadraginta horas Nihilo minus tamen omnes illi pacem inter se retinuerunt retinemus etiamnuÌ„ dissonantia ieiunij fidei concordiam commendat Some fast one daie some two dayes some more some fourtie houres and yet all these continued in peace among themselues and to this day we continue the same and our difference in fasâ—â—â—g commendeth our concord in faith Socrates hath a whole chapter purposely made to shew what diuersitie there was in the Church of Christ about Lent the Lordes Supper marying baptizing praying fasting and such like Ecclesiasticall obseruances and yet all those places and countries parts of the Catholik Church and communicant one with an other in Christian peace and vnitie Operosum molestum fuerit imò impossibile omnes ecclesiarum quae per ciuitates regiones sunt ritus conscribere It were an hard and laborious thing saith he yea an impossible to write al the different customes and manners of the Churches in euerie citie and countrie Qui eiusdem sunt fidei de ritibus inter se dissentiunt They that are of the same faith differ in their rites So that this is no breach of the Christian and Catholike communion which all the faithfull ought to keepe among themselues with their head the author and finisher of their faith Phi. It openeth the gappe to all kinde of diuisions schismes sectes and disorders Theo. Why so Because your holy father can not marchandize the soules empt the purses of men as he was wont to do What Sectes Schismes disorders or heresies can there arise if we defend it lawfull for Princes to commaÌ„d for truth within their own Realmes Nay rather hath not the subiecting of Princes to the Popes pride wrought the vtter ruine and decaie of the West Church Where Rulers be many it is easie to finde some good and they wil resist that which is euill and reforme that which is amisse where one ruleth al if he fal as he quickly may he draweth the whole Church into the same danger and error with him Phi. But the successour of Peter can not erre and therefore the Church is safest when it is ruled by him for whose faith Christ praied that it might not faile Theo. Proue that the Pope can not erre and we will graunt not onely this but all your religion besides to be true Phi. What you wil not Theo. The word is spoken accept the condition when you list Till you do we prefer Cyprians iudgement before yours Therefore deare brother saith he writing to Stephanus Bishop of Rome is there a plentifull number of Priestes in the church ioyned togither with the knot of mutuall concorde and bande of peace that if any of our companie make a breach and rent and wast the the flocke of Christ the rest should helpe and as profitable and pitifull Pastours reduce the Lordes sheepe to the flocke againe The number of Rulers in his opinon is no cause of sectes and dissentions but rather a remedie prouided in the Church against disorder and heresie Phi. It maketh all Christian Bishops Priestes and whatsoeuer borne out of the Realme forrainers and vsurpers in all iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall towardes vs that there can be no iurisdiction ouer English-mens soules but proceeding and depending of her soueraigne right therein Theo. Your force is almost spent when you come to these frozen and woodden obiections Wee call those that were borne and liue out of the Realme forrainers What else should wee call them And such as pretend Peters keies to dispose crownes and remoue Princes from their seates ioyning rebellion with remission of sinnes we thinke them vsurpers and abusers of Ecclesiastical iurisdiction A maruelous ouersight in deed We might haue spared you some sharper and quicker termes but by these wee thought good to manifest to the world your iniurious and irreligious drift to be masters of earthly kingdomes by winding and turning Peters keies at your pleasure Phi. Your words exclude Christ his Apostles in as much as they were and be forrainers from hauing any iurisdiction ouer England Theo. It is pitie you can not cauil We striue for iudicial authoritie to depriue Princes you vrge vs with Apostolike power to preach the Gospell and remit sinnes Wee speake of that which is at this present you tell vs what was fifteene hundred yeares since We reason of States in earth you run to Saints in heauen We reiect the Bishop of Rome you wrangle with vs as though wee refused the sonne of God Doth not matter faile you when you flie for helpe to such vnsauory toies Phi. Your oth is so absurdly conceiued that though you ment not to exclude Christ and his Apostles yet in wordes you doe For if No forraine person Prelat State nor Potentate hath nor ought to haue any iurisdiction power superiority preeminence or authority ecclesiasticall or spiritual within this Realme of England surely neither Christ nor his Apostles because they were be forrainers haue or ought to haue any Theo. Not our speaking but your wresting and wrenching of our wordes is far fet most absurd For first where you auouch Christ himself to be a forrainer whoÌ„ we acknowledge to be the right inheritor owner of the whole worlde yea the mighty Lord king of heauen earth in gibing at vs you iest on his birth as if Christ were a forrainer to the Gentiles because he tooke flesh among the Iewes And though you might haue takâ—n some aduantage at his cradle yet you should haue remembred that the Creator is no forrainer to the worke of his handes as likewise the heade is not to the members nor God incarnate to the sonnes of men As for his Apostles in deede whiles they liued on earth they were forrainers but that their spirits now present with God raigning in blisse with Christ bee forrainers is a mad speech of yours no meaning of ours You must send vs word from Rhemes how soules can be French Spanish Scottish or English These with vs be distinctions of couÌ„tries not of souls after death til your new doctrine came wee tooke them to cease With a little helpe I thinke you will make vs some men soules and some women soules you be so skilfull in these conceites Againe might the soules in heauen be called or counted forrainers you must tell vs what ecclesiasticall power authoritie they now exercise on earth We do not affirme that forrainers neuer had any such power in England the Apostles had their commission from
and therefore the power which Princes haue is not spirituall Theo. Wee neuer sayde that Princes had any spirituall power it is a false collection of yours it is no part of our confession and the sworde which they beare wee neuer called but externall and temporall For the true spiritual and eternall sworde is the woorde of God The sworde of the spirite sayth S. Paul which is the word of God and S. Iohn describing the sonne of God sayth Out of his mouth went a sharp two edged sword The word of GOD as S. Paul writeth is more percing than any two edged sword and entereth through euen to the parting in sunder of the soul and spirit And as for both these causes it is spirituall so it indureth for euer and is eternall The magistrats sword compared with this is but corporall and temporall Corporall in respect it toucheth the body but not the soule Our sauiour for warning his Disciples that they should be brought before Gouernours and Kings for his sake addeth to encourage theÌ„ Feare not those which kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Temporal it is in respect either of Gods ordinance which lasteth no longer than the time of this worlde or of mans vengeance which ceaseth by death and rageth no farther or if you will for that it ordereth the things of this life and praiseth or punisheth the senssible and external actions of the body which be temporall The things which bee seene are temporal saith S. Paul but the things which are not seene are eternal Phi. You take temporal for that which dureth for a season and is not eternall and we take temporal as it is opposite to spirituall And in that sense because the sword hath to doe with temporal men and matters only we call it the temporall sworde and haue good reason to defend that temporall Princes should not meddle with spirituall Persons or causes Theo. The distinction of spirituall and temporal Persons things and causes as you limite them sprang first from your selues without all authoritie or rather in deed against the authoritie of the holy scriptures and was nothing els but a mere deuise of yours to encrease your Courts and to wind the sword by litle and litle out of other mens fingers hang it at your owne girdles For when you saw that the things which be truly spiritual as faith hope charitie with other vertues and fruites of the spirit belonged only to GOD and not to man and therefore by the resolution of our Sauiour must bee giuen to God and not to Cesar first you would needs be termed spirituall men taking the name which is common to all the sonnes of GOD as proper to your selues and your seruants and by that colour exempt not onely Priests but also doore keepers torche bearers bell ringers Church sweepers and all your retinue from subiection to temporall magistrates But S. Paul calleth them spirituall men which haue the spirit of GOD as all his children haue and the rest carnal or natural men I could not speak to you brethren as vnto spiritual men but as vnto carnal euen as vnto babes in Christ. For where as there is yet among you enuieng strife dissention are you not carnal And againe The naturall man sauoureth not the thinges of the spirit of God but the spiritual man discerneth al things And so BrethreÌ„ if a maÌ„ be fallen into any fault you that be spiritual restore such a one with the spirit of meeknesse As also S. Iude These be fleshly men hauing no spirit And likewise Saint Peter Bee you made as liuely stones a spirituall house What wrong then you doe the faythfull when you name them temporall as if the hope of their calling reached no farther than this life let the wise and Godly iudge That reproche of temporall and pride of spirituall men no learned nor auncient father euer vsed Secular S. Hierom calleth them Laymen Clerkes that were not Monkes Temporall no man euer called the people of God besides your selues Next that your landes and liuings might speede no worse than your selues for gaine was the mother of your earely and dayly deuotion you tooke order to haue them goe for spirituall thinges also notwithstanding Saint Paul expressely called them carnal If wee haue sowen vnto you spirituall things is it a great matter if wee reape your carnall thinges And speaking of the poore Saintes at Ierusalem If the Gentiles bee made partakers of their spirituall thinges their duetie is also to minister vnto them in carnal things And where the Lorde himselfe willed the Scribes and high Priestes to giue vnto Caesar the thinges that were Caesars and vnto God the things that were Gods you as if that graunt had beene too liberall thought it expedient vppon some wiser consideration belike to set the image and superscription of God and his Church vpon your corruptible and earthly Mammon and by that cunning to keepe it from Caesar. Farre better S. Ambrose If the Emperour aske for tribute we deny it not The lands of the Church pay tribute If he affect the lands themselues he hath power to take them no man amoÌ„gst vs is any let vnto him The almes of the people is enough for the poore Let them neuer procure vs enuie for our Landes let them take them if they please I doe not giue them to the Emperour but I doe not denie them Thirdly to enlarge your kingdome and stretch your winges ouer all men and matters as farre as you needed or listed you tooke the punishment of incest adulterie fornication drunkennes vsurie periurie simonie sorcerie blasphemie witchcraft Apostacie and such like grosse and fleshly vices out of the Magistrates handes vnder the colour of spirituall thinges and fastened them to your consistories And not therewith content you caught holde of tithes testaments legacies intestates patronages mariages diuorces dowries espousals funerals affinitie consanguinitie bastardie bondage as of spirituall causes and questions and if the matter concerned the goods and Landes of Churches or Church men you made no bones to venter on giftes sales exchaunges possession alienation restitution conuentions conditions exactions sureties pledges payments dammages iniuries forgeries hyring lending farming and a thousand such as if all actions causes and contracts that any way touched your gayne or ease must by and by goe for spirituall and the magistrate by that poore shift bee secluded from ordering and entermedling with those things which were wont to bee wholy guided by the Princes Lawes Phi. Mislike you that Priestes shoulde punish sinne or that Bishoppes should deale in those cases which bee incident to the Lawes of GOD and Canons of the Church Theo. I doe not mislike that malefactours of all kindes not onely drunkards raylers periurers adulterers vsurers and such like but also theeues robbers rauishers murderers plagiaries incendiaries trâ—ytours and all other haynous offendours when their liues bee
reportes wee may hardly trust since your speciall instaunces be so corrupted and wrested And could you shewe that which you speake of as you can not you must also proue it well done or at leâ—t to haue beene liked and allowed of the Church of Christ before we can receiue it The Apostles rule is strong against it You must bee subiect not onely for wrath but for conscience sake Many thousand Martyrs Bishoppes others submitted themselues and endured the vilest torments that coulde bee deuised against them as the ten persecutions of Christes Church vnder heathen Princes most clearly witnesse that euer any of their subiects rebelled against those bloody persecutors in respect of religion must be your care to shewe Wee reading all the monumentes of those tymes verily find none and by your silence it should appeare your selues know none otherwise we do not thinke you woulde disfurnish your cause and trouble the reader with impertinent matters That the Citizens of Antioch defended their Church with armes against the Emperour Galerius his officers I find it writteÌ„ in no good Author neither do you quote the place that Storie you may put in your Legende as taken thence by most likelyhood The temples of their bodies which were farre more precious they did not defend from the furious and insatiable rage of Diocletian Maximinus but as well at Antioche as in all other places subiect to the Romane Empire the christian men women mildly gladly suffered those torments deaths and shames which in our eyes neither flesh could beare nor nature brooke so that wee haue cause rather to maruaile at their patience than to mistrust their disobedience Phi. S. Basil and S. Ambrose people defended them against the inuasions of Heretikes Theo. After Valens the Emperour had twise decreed to banish S. Basil and was the first tyme stopped of his course by the suddaine sicknes of his sonne and terror of his wife and the second time by a straunge trembling of hande and heart as he was subscribing the sentence of deportation against him hee neuer after offered to meddle with Saint Basill but suffered him quietly to enioy his Bishopricke Yet fell there out after this a contention betweene the Lieutenaunt of Pontus and Saint Basill about the liberties of the sanctuarie for a Noble woman that had taken the Church for her refuge to saue her selfe from one that woulde haue forced her to mariage against her will The Deputie required the woman to bee deliuered the Bishoppe replied that hee might not violate the Lawes of GOD and man The Deputie stomacking Saint Basill and the more for his stout defence otherwise of the Christian faith sent for the Bishoppe to his Tribunall and commaunding him to bee stript threatned to whippe him and to teare his flesh with Iron hookes This indignitie the people could no longer abide but seeing their Pastor thus shamefully handled without the Emperours commandemeÌ„t or knowledge vpon the priuate displeasure of a Deputie for the liberties of the Church established by the Romane Lawes the whole citie men and women fell to an vprore and were like enough to haue done the Deputie some mischiefe but that Saint Basil with much adoe repressing the people deliuered his persecutor from that perill This is the true report of Saint Basils case euen out of the same author which you auouche Gregorie Nazianzene Their griefe you see was not against the Emperours power or fact but against the malice of a Lieutenant presuming vpon a priuate grudge without any warrant from the Prince not onely to doe that which the Emperour in his owne person had refrained but in most spitefull and seruile manner to abuse their Bishop against all order of Lawe And this tumult S. Basil neither procured nor praised but asswaged with his presence and offered himselfe to the Deputies pleasure Of S. Ambrose wee spake before by occasion and thither we send you It is most vntrue that the people of Millan either did or might take armes against the Emperour though hee were then but a child and therefore might make no Lawes for Religion or otherwise without Theodosius ioynt Emperour with him in possession of the scepter before him Which exception neither S. Ambrose nor other godly bishops vsed against him but submitted themselues with al meekenes when in reason they might haue taken this aduantage Of the people S. Ambrose himselfe giueth this testimonie In singulis vobis Iob reuixit in singulis sancti illius patientia virtus refulsit Quid enim praesentis dici potuit a viris Christianis quà m quod â—odie in vobis locutus est Spiritus sanctus Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus non timemus sed rogamus Hoc Christianos decet In euery one of you Iob is aliue againe in eche of you his patience and vertue shined What coulde bee sayde fitter by Christian men than that which the holy Ghost this day spake in you We beseech O Emperour we offer not armes Wee feare not to die but we intreate thy clemencie This beseemeth Christians to desire tranquillitie of peace faith but to bee constant in the truth euen vnto death And for his part when hee heard that his Church was taken vp by the Emperours souldiers he fet only somewhat the deeper sighes sayd to such as exhorted him to goe thither deliuer vp my Church I may not but sight I ought not Phi. But the people were in a commotion which appeareth by that S. Ambrose answered when they willed him to asswage their furie It lay in him not to incite them but hee had no meanes to represse them Theo. Truth it is that the people flocked to their Churches and chose rather to bee slaine in the place than to leaue them vnto Arians But that they offered armes or attempted any force either for S. Ambrose or against Valentinian is a manifest vntrueth The merchaunts were amerced and emprisoned the Nobles were hardly threatned and S. Ambrose himselfe charged as with a sedition and yet all the violence that was offered was this The people passing from one Church to an other met a Chapleine of the Arrians and some vnruly persons as in such heates it can not otherwise be chosen beganne to illude and abuse the man but the Bishop presently sent his Priestes and Deacons and rescued him from that iniurie which yet the Emperour tooke so grieuously that hee layd a number of them in Irons and imposed a great mulet vpon the whole Citie to bee paide within three dayes Farther force was none offered by the people of Millan and yet of that small disorder Saint Ambrose saith If they thought him to bee the inciter or stirrer of the people they should straightway reuenge it on him or banish him into what wildernesse they would And to that end he departed home to bed to his owne house that if any man woulde haue him into exile
she is tried in the fornace cleanest when she is vanned whitest when she is scoured and safest when she is iudged in the world that she be not condemned with the world The Church of Christ hath alwaies prospered in miserie and decaied in prosperitie Israel increased whiles they were oppressed by Pharaoh and when they came to be fed with Manna vnder Moses they were consumed The bloud of the Martyrs is the very nourcerie of the Church and the first poison of Religion was the wealth and pride of Bishops The grace of God is made perfect through weakenesse and when our outward man perisheth our inward is daily renewed Phi. Why rage you thus What haue we said Theo. That which neuer learned or Christian man sayde before you say your saluation is vnsufficient if you may not rebell against Princes when they oppresse you Phi. If there were no way to depriue or restraine Apostata Princes Theo. Then was not the Primatiue Church sufficiently prouided for by the sonne of God for they lacked compotent forces as your selfe did confesse to restraine those heretiks Apostataes and tyrants that afflicted them Then were the Apostles vnfurnished for their saluation for they had nothing besides hope to beare the brunt of those continuall and bloudie persecutions which they suffered Then is God carelesse of his Saincts for so much your religious wordes import since they shall haue none other refuge in all assaults but faith and patience Wo worth your worldly mindes that cannot so much as say with the Apostle whatsoeuer you thinke I take pleasure in infirmities in reproches in necesâ—ities in persecutions in anguish for Christ for when I am weake then am I strong Phi We haue giuen better experience thereof than you we haue these 27. yeres endured al sorts of afflictions calamities that might befal men in exile and therefore neuer charge vs to be worldly minded our long and hard banishment doth clearely quite vs from that slaunder Theo. You haue beene long absent but much against your wils had any of your practises well succeeded you had many yeres since returned with fier and sword but God of his mercie toward this realm hath wearied their heads and filled their hands that should be your leaders and now waxing sharp through impatience much displeased to see your selues so often disappointed you not onely by your booke blowe the trump to rebellion but shew the very ground and persuasion of your hearts to be this that except you may depriue the Prince with dint of swoord God hath not sufficiently prouided for your saluation as though life to come woulde doe you litle good except in the meane time you might abounde and not feele want liue in honour and not thus wander raigne ouer Princes and not obey them or endure them Phi. Wee see howè the whole worlde did runne from Christ after Iulian to plaine Paganisme after Valens to Arianisme after Edward the sixt with vs into Zwinglianisme and would doe into Turcisme if any powerable Prince will lead his subiects that way If our fayth or perdition shoulde on this sort passe by the pleasure of euery secular Prince and no remedie for it in the state of the newe Testament but men must holde and obey him to what infidelitie so euer he fall then wee were in worse case than heathens and all other humane common wealthes which both before Christ and after haue had meanes to deliuer them-selues from such tyrants as were intolerable and euidently pernicious to humane societie and the good of the people for whose peace and preseruation they were created by man or ordayned by God Theo. You finde that multitudes ranne from Christ to Paganisme after Iulian to Arianisme after Valens but doe you finde that the godly did rebell against them because a number ranne after them What presumption is this in you to controle the wisedome and goodnes of God sifting his Church by the rage and furie of wicked Princes and crowning those that bee his as patient in triall and constant in trueth Were you throughly perswaded that the heartes of Kinges are in the handes of GOD and that the haires of our heades are numbred so that no persecution can apprehend his which hee disposeth not toward them for experience of their fayth or recompence of their sinnes you woulde as well honour the iustice of God in erecting tyrants that our vnrighteousnes may bee iudged and punished in this worlde as embrace his mercie in giuing rest to his Church by the fauour of good and vertuous Princes And therefore I appeale to the consciences of all good men whether this reason of yours if there were no way to depriue Princes and to take their Crownes from them wee were in worse case than heathens bee not a prophane despising the Counsell of God towarde his Church and an open betraying of your vnquiet stomackes when you bee in trouble Our Sauiour foreteaching his that they shoulde bee brought before Kinges and Rulers and put to death and hated of all men for his names sake addeth not as you would haue it and hee that first rebelleth but hee that endureth to the end shall bee saued and againe not with violence restraine them but in patience possesse your owne soules This is the way for all Christian subiects to conquerre tyraunts and this is the remedie prouided in the newe Testament against all persecutions not to resist powers which GOD hath ordayned lest wee damned but with all meekenes to suffer that we may bee crowned Phi. The heathens before Christ and after had meanes to deliuer them-selues from such tyrants as were intolerable and euidently pernicious to humane societie and the good of the people for whose peace and preseruation they were created by man or ordayned by God Theo. A meane they had to dispatch such as they counted tyrants and that was to kill them which Christians may not imitate and yet did your Holy Father of late in Cardinall Comos letter promise earthly and heauenly recompence to Parry for offering his seruice to kill her maiestie The letter is extant the purpose confessed the partie executed Looke there you shall see the Bishoppe of Rome and his Cardinals to bee right heathens and to carrie the same myndes that they did if not worse For they knowing no GOD besides the ghesse of their owne heartes and hauing no rule to leade them but onely reason and buylding a felicitie to them-selues in this life sawe no cause why one man shoulde bee suffered to afflict and disease a number and supposing any thing to bee lawfull that relieued the Common wealth they decreed him to bee no murtherer but a delyuerer of his countrie that woulde kill a tyrant You hauing the manifest voyce of GOD thou shalt not kill which you ought to preferre afore your owne lyues and being prohibited by the holy Ghost to doe euill that good may come
a matter of more dependence than may bee ouer-ruled with a fewe piked and well couched tearmes You must therefore exactly and directly prooue the Popes authoritie to depose Princes which you shall neuer bee able to doe or else hee for attempting it is the man of sinne exalting him-selfe in the Church of GOD and you for defending and executing the same lacke not many degrees of high and haynous treason The carying of this in your owne heartes and reconciling of others within the realme that they might bee readie to receiue this impression at your mouthes when tyme should serue were the very causes why some of your fellowes tasted of her maiesties iust and prouoked indignation and if it be tyrannie for the Prince to put them to death that lay plottes to haue her crowne and her life and write bookes to auouch it lawful for themselues and all others so to doe when the Pope sayth the word then her highnes hath done you some wrong but if by diuine and humane recordes it bee damnable in the subiect to attempt or abet any such thing and most laudable in the Prince to reuenge the consenter and encourager as well as the doer then for religion hath none of your side beene martyred in England as your shamelesse eloquence would enforce onely some were executed for affirming publishing and furdering the Popes Antichristian power to rule realmes and depriue Princes which you call religion because you would plant it in the peoples hearts with lesse labour and more liking though in deede it be pestilent pride in him and a plaine contempt of God and the Prince in you that should obey Phi. M. Iohn Slade and M. Iohn Body two famous confessours were they not condemned to death in publike iudgement for confessing their fayth of the Popes spiritual soueraigntie and for denying the Queene to bee head of the Church of England or to haue any spirituall regiment and that twise at two diuers sessions a rare case in our countrie the later sentence being to refourme the former as we may gesse in such strange proceedings which they perceiued to bee erroneous and vnsufficient in their owne Lawes Theo. Promotions are rife at Rome you would not else so soone aduance two frowarde and rude companions for masters martyrs Their iudgement was twise giuen not as you peruersly yet after your manner interprete the later to reforme the former as erroneous and vnsufficient but for that they complayned they were drawen afore they were ware and against their wils to vtter speaches against the Princes sworde for which they were condemned the grace mercie of the Prince was such that her highnesse was content they should bee tried the seconde tyme to see whether those words were vnaduisedly and vnwillingly spoken as they pretended or of set mischiefe malice and warned by the Iudge to take good heede and looke wel about thē before they rashly offered themselues to the danger of the Lawes Where if they fell againe openly and lustily to auouch that the Pope was supreme head of the Church of England and consequently the Queene had no right to make lawes as shee had doone but was subiect to the Popes Decrees and censures which is the maine ground of all your rebellion and his presumption who besides you that are yoked in the same cause with them will say they died for religion and not rather for their wilful charging the Prince with vsurpation yeelding the Pope that dominion which hee claimeth ouer kingdomes and you would faine establish with your vntrue surmises Phi. The question of Peters keyes is it not a matter of meere religion Theo. If you draw Princes crownes and swordes within the limits of Peters keyes you leaue religion and hatch rebellion Phi. Yet is it a question whereof diuines do doubt Theo. You may doubt what you list to flatter the Pope but your doubting may not stoppe Princes from defending that which is their owne against the Popes vniust claime and vnlawfull force The Prince striueth not with the Pope neither for the dignitie which hee taketh aboue all Bishoppes nor for the power which hee seeketh to bind and loose sinnes in heauen though therein hee doeth the Church of Christ great wrong and oppresseth his brethren but onely for her right to commaund and punish within her own Realme in ecclesiasticall causes and crimes as well as in temporall which I haue largely prooued euery Prince may within his owne Dominion and for the wrong that her maiestie receiued when shee was depriued of her crowne by him that had no warrant from Christ to disquiet her state or dispose her crown These bee the pointes comprised in her highnes Lawes Against these if your rash and ill aduised brethren woulde runne headlong to their owne perdition when they were admonished by the magistrate to haue better regarde to their wordes they haue the iust rewarde of their vnfaythfull and disloyall heartes and my assertion is true that these two ignorant yet obstinate persons with some others which came not to any particular mention of the Popes bull against the Prince but generally stoode in defence of that power to be good and lawfull from whence the bull proceeded died in the same quarell with the rest that purposely promoted defended and assisted the bull and so can bee no witnesses of Christes trueth and glory which woulde needes cast away their liues for the Popes pride and tyrannie Phi. It is hard dealing to make such trifles treasons Theo. Call you those trifles when Princes shall lose their kingdomes and their people freely rebell and you defende the warres of their owne subiects against them to be iust and honourable by vertue of that power which you attribute to the Pope when you make him head of the Church Had you liued in Saint Augustines dayes you would haue sayde it had beene harder dealing that one word against the Christian Emperours although they were dead shoulde be counted treason Thou doest promise sayth Augustine to Petilian that thou wilt reckon many of our Emperours and iudges WHICH BY PERSECVTING YOV PERISHED and concealing the Emperours thou meanest two Iudges or Deputies Why didst thou not name the Emperours of our cōmunion were thou afraid to bee accused as guiltie OF TREASON where is your courage which feare not to kill your selues To say that Emperours PERISHED FOR PERSECVTING was Treason in his tyme In our age you thinke it much that reproching of Princes as tyrants and heretikes ayding the Pope with your perswasions absolutions rebellions to take their crownes from them should be punished or adiudged Treason Phi. There is no law so rigorous but your diuinitie wil serue you to defend it Theo. What is against your duetie to God and your Prince in that I am a diuine I may iustly debate what punishment the Prince will appoint for such offences as be committed against her neither you nor I haue to doe with it
Art Phi. You vnderstand vs not When wee giue diuine honour to the image in respect of Christ we giue it to Christ and not to the image Theo. God graunt you vnderstand your selues You first dishonour the Sonne of God by exhibiting the heauenly seruice that is due to him to an Image made with handes and then with a shift of wordes you thinke to delude him in telling that hee may not choose but like of your doinges because you ment it vnto him when you did it to a dumbe creature for his sake But awake out of your frensie God will not thus be mocked by your relations or intentions Hee is zealous of his honour he will not resigne it to any other and namely not to grauen or carued images If against his worde against his will against his truth and glorie you impart it to anie other or take vpon you to conueie it to him by creatures or images as if hee were not present in all places with might and maiesty to receiue the seruice that is done vnto him you not onely make new Gods but you reiect him as no GOD who alone is the true GOD and will be serued without mate or meane of your deuising Phi. Our Lord shewing what account he maketh of such as represent his person sayth In as much as you haue doone it to one of the least of these you haue doone it vnto me Theo. Did Christ speake that of images Phi. Noâ— but thereby you see it passeth â—â—to Christ whatsoeuer is done in his name or for his sake to others Theo. If you meane such charitable reliefe as Christ hath commaunded vs to yeeld to our brethren in respect of his will their neede and our dutie you say well wee haue for that the manifest precept and promise of our Sauiour accepting it as done to himselfe whatsoeuer is done to any of his brethren or seruauntes but if you leape from men to images from humane comfort to diuine honour you leape too farre to haue the sequele good Philand If diuine adoration may not bee giuen to Images yet humane reuerence may with-out anie daunger Theo. Religious honour may not and as for externall and ciuill reuerence whether that may bee giuen to images can bee no doubt of Doctrine nor point of fayth The one is impious to bee defended the other superfluous to bee discussed Philand So you giue them either wee care not Theophil If you flie from adoration to saluation and stande not on pietie but on ciuilitie then is it a question for Philosophers and not for Diuines and to bee decided rather in the Schooles than in the Churche neyther can any manne bee praysed or preiudiced for vsing or omitting that kinde of curtesie which neyther the Gospell nor good manners conuince to bee necessary Philand Shoulde wee not honour Christ and his Sainctes by all the meanes wee can Theophil Christ you must honour with all power and all your strength as being the Sonne of the liuing GOD but you may not fasten his honour to any Image or creature since hee is alwayes present to beholde and willing to receiue as well the religions submission of knees handes and eyes as the inwarde sighes and grones of the heart neither can you bestowe the least of these gestures on an image in your prayers without open and euident wrong to him to whome you shoulde yeeld them Phi. For adoring of images I am not so earnest as for hauing them in the Church that they may put vs in remembraunce of the bitter paines and death which it peased our Lord to suffer for our sakes and that I am sure is catholike though adoration be not Theo. We doe not gainesay the remembring or honouring the death and bloodshedding of our Sauiour hee is not onely dull but wicked that intermitteth either but this is the doubt betwixt vs whether wee shoulde content our selues with such meanes as hee hath deuised for vs and commended vnto vs thereby dayly to renue the memorie of our redemption or else inuent others of our owne heades fitte perhappes to prouoke vs to a naturall and humane affection but not fitte to instruct our fayth The hearing of his worde and partaking of his mysteries were appointed by him to leade vs and vse vs to the continuall meditation of his death and passion a crucifixe was not hee knowing that images though they did intertaine the eies with some delight yet might they snare the soules of many simple and sillie persons and preferring the least seede of sounde faith beholding and adoring him in spirit and truth before all the dumbe shewes and imagery that mans wit could furnish to winne the eye and moue the heart with a carrâ—all kind of commiseration and pitie such as wee finde in our selues when wee beholde the tormentes and pangues of any miscreant or malefactour punished amongest vs. Phi. All meanes are good that bring vs in minde of his death Theo. By sight you may learn the maner of his death but neither the cause nor the fruits which are the chiefest thinges that the sonne of god would haue vs remember in his death and you very peruersely and wickedly keeping the people from those meanes which Christ ordained as the hearing of the word and right vse of the sacraments which you drowned in a strange tongue that the people vnderstood not set them to gaze on a Roode taught them to giue all possible honour both bodily and ghostly to that which they sawe with their eyes bearing them in hand it passed from the image to the originall that is from a dead and senselesse stocke to the glorious and euerlyuing Sonne of God which in effect was nothing else but to worship and serue the creature before the Creator which is blessed for euer Phi. You are now besides the matter We speake of hauing images for remeÌ„braunce not of adoring them for religion and that is catholike if this be not Theo. Since the hauing of images being neither deliuered nor allowed by Christ nor his Apostles is superfluous and the abusing of them is so daungerous and yet so frequent and often that in all ages and places it hath intrapped many Gentiles Iewes and Christians I see no reason why for a curious delight of the eyes which the Apostles neglected and the primatiue Church of Christ wanted we shoulde scandalize the ignorant and exercise the learned as for a necessarie point of catholike doctrine Phi. Had the Apostles and their scholers no images Theo. Had they thinke you Phi. Remember you not the image which Nicodemus that came to Christ by night made with his owne handes and left to Gamaliel S. Pauls master he to Iames and Iames to Simeon and Zacheus This report you shall finde written by Athanasius 1300. yeares since and besides that it is amongest his workes at this day it was repeated 800. yeares agoe in the second Nicene councell as
Phi. If we may not bow to holy images as vnto thinges that be superiour and better than man yet we may imbrace and loue them as thinges which we like and that both by the vse of the Greeke tongue and speech of the scripture is called adoration as Tharasius the Patriarke of Constantinople in his epistle to Irene the Empresse and her sonne doth largely confirme Theo. You put me in minde what cunning was vsed in the second Nicene councell to saue your poppets vpright and to set a colour on their vngodly decree that images should be worshipped When they saw themselues not able to proue by Scripture or father that images should be reuerenced and adored and they had pronounced him accursed that doubted of the adoration of images your wise worthy Bishops thought it safest to shroude their wicked resolution vnder the doubtfull equiuocate sense of the word adoration because 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in greeke did signifie not onely to bowe for deuotion and religion but also to imbrace for loue and affection as friendes and familyars when they happen to meete So Tharasius and the whole Synod defend the conclusion which they made in that councel For shewing whose images they would haue to be receiued they adde Sunt hae adorandae etiam id est exosculandae amandae Idem enim haec significant iuxta antiquam Graeciae dialecton Nam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 significat quod quis 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id etiam 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quod 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 id omnino 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 These images of Christ and his Sainctes are also to bee adored that is to kissed and loued These wordes are all of one force To adore doth signifie both to imbrace to loue For that which a man loueth that he adoreth that which he adoreth that he earnestly loueth The naturall affection and loue which wee beare toward our friendes doe witnes this For so two friendes when they meete embrace salute ech other And â—â—ing some places of the scripture where adoration is taken for a reuerent and louely salutation as when Iacob bowed himselfe before Esau and Abraham before the people of Heth Dauid before Ionathan and the Pharisees were noted by our Sauiour for * louing such magistrall obeisance they inferre Has quoque adorandas salutandas putamus We thinke images are in like maner to be adored and saluted pretending it to be a matter of faith christian pietie to adore images and when they come to the vpshot concluding nothing but an externall and ciuill kinde of imbracing or kissing such as a man may giue to the coate which he weareth to the meat which he eateth to euery thing that he loueth without respect of religion or thought of deuotion Phi. Then you should the sooner graunt that images may be adored since they mean that kind of adoration which is without al danger of idolatry Theo. Then you be wise diuines to make adoration of images a point of catholike doctrine since the Bishops of Nice whose actes you would seeme to follow interprete adoration to be but a familiar and friendly kissing or saluting such as men might yeeld to the manger where Christ laye swathed to the howsen which he entered to the waters on which hee walked to the hilles deserts highwayes and cities where he prayed preached iournied or suffered the adoration of which things and places I trust you will not make a part of the Catholike faith Phi. Compare you an image with a manger Theo. It is the comparison of your owne councell in the very same epistle alleadging these words of Gregory the diuine iustifie their adoration of images Worshippe Bethleem adore the manger If the stable manger where Christ lay must haue the same adoration that images haue yea that the crosse hath whereon Christ died howe shamefully is your church fallen not onely from God but euen from her owne councels in allowing the very same honor to images that is due to Christ himselfe Phi. The crosse they did flatly adore as their own words witnes which presently insue Crucem tuam adoramus Domine We adore thy crosse O Lord. And that as it should seeme was a part of the church seruice For they say CuÌ„vinificam crucem salutamus conuenienter canimus when we salute the crosse that procured vs life we doe well to sing thy crosse Lord do we adore Theo. So did they the speare which pearced his side The next wordes are The speare which opened thy sacred and lifegiuing side wee adore But what they ment by that adoratioÌ„ they straightway expound which adoration is nothing else but a salutation or an imbracing if you so rather like to cal it as is hereby declared for that we touch those things with our lips Phi. Yet this is a kinde of adoration Theo. But not such as your church and schooles afterward defended and yeelded vnto material images crosses For you in plaine words require 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is diuine honor for the wodden crosse and image of Christ whereas the second Nicene councel in this epistle doth wholy renounce that as a manifest and wicked errour And therfore you do nothing lesse than accord with that Councell which is so much in your mouthes they decreeing but a reuerent salutation and you giuing diuine adoration to the image crosse of Christ which be doctrines mightily repugning ech to other if you note them well though the word adoration be vsed in both And did you consent with theÌ„ as you do not neither their resolution nor yours is catholike they ventering farther than either scriptures or fathers before did lead them and that vpon the doubtfull accepcion of the word adoring and blind presumption that external reuerence which they ment therby might be giuen for loue feare fauor or curtesie without impairing the honour due to God and you being deceiued by the heat of their speech and taking adoration for a religious and deuoute submission of body and soule such as belonged to the person himselfe represented by the image and that in our Sauiour is diuine and heauenly honor Phi. Should not the crosse of Christ haue diuine honour Theo. The crosse being taken for his death and passion as the scriptures vse the word must bee adored as the true and onely meane of our redemption and saluation but the wood on which hee hung may not much lesse the signe of it as you nowe abuse it You hearde Sainct Ambrose say that to adore the wood on which the Lorde died was an heathenish errour and vanitie of the wicked And before him Arnobius made this answere for all Christians Cruces nec columus nec optamus vos plane qui ligneos Deos consecratis cruces ligneas
in them all others to do what he did taught them that his actions were essentiall to his Supper as well as words He did not wil them to say this but to doe this in remembrance of him Phi. Do you not thinke the repeating and vsing of his words to be necessarie in the celebration of the Sacrament Theo. Yeas but I adde that his actions are as necessary Phi. There is difference betweene the making of a medicine or the substance and ingredience of it and the taking of it Theo. There is but wheÌ„ the medicine is neuer so well made if it be not ministred to the patient the making of it is vtterly vaine Phi. Yet the making of it is not the ministring of it Theo. The one is the end of the other and therfore without the ministring the making is superfluous Phi. Then taking and eating is not the substance or being or making of the sacrament or sacrifice of Christs body and blood but it is the vse application to the receiuer of the things that were made offered to God before Theo. Neither did I say that eating and drinking were the substantial partes of the sacrament but of the Lords institution Phi. As though the sacrament were not our Lords institution Theo. Christes institution containeth as well the vse as the matter or forme that must be vsed A supper is not only the meate prouided but also the act of eating that which is prouided so the Lords institution or Supper imploieth the vse and action as well as the word and elements Phi. The vse of it is to be a sacrifice as well as a sacrament and in a sacrifice offering is rather required than eating Theo. That is the way to correct the son of God who saide not take this and offer it but take this and eate it Eating which Chrâ—st commaunded you neglect offering which â—e did not commaunde you esteeme and yet you would bee followers of Christ. Phi. Did not Christ say to his Disciples Do this Theo. You knowe we presse you with that saying of his Phâ— Doe this that is offer this Theo. So you say but where saith Christ so Phi. Doubt you whether this bee a sacrifice Theo. We talke not what names the Lordes supper may be called by but what wordes Christ vsed Phi. Hâ— sâ—ide Doe this Theo. To wit that which he did before for so the demonstratiue bindetâ— the sense Phi. And what if Christ sacrificed himselfe as he sate at table Theo. 〈◊〉 must come to that issue or else your sacrificing is cleane without Christs commaunding Phi. Christ himselâ—e seemeth to mention some such thing when hee sayeth This is my body which is not which shal be broken for you And this is my blood which is shed not which shall be shed for many for remission of sinnes If this were not a sacrifice wâ—at was it Theo. It was the foreteâ—ling of that which was then at hand presently to ensue Phi. Christ vsed the present and not the future tense Theo. And yet the suffering which hee specified by the breaking of his body and shedding of his blood was not present but the next day on the crosse If you teach that Christs blood was really shed at the table for remâ—ssion of sinnes you must put him twise to death make the later death which was on the crosse to be vtterly idle For where remission of sin is there needeth no more sacrifice for sin If theÌ„ remissioÌ„ of sins were obtained by the actual shedding of Christs blood at his last supper his death crosse the next day were superfluous If forgiuenes were not obtained ouer night but that the Lord the next day was to shed his blood for our sinnes then spake he before hand of that which the next day should follow his speech in the present tense noteth nothing but that hee had euen then giuen him-selfe ouer to death for our sakes which immâ—dâ—atly they should beheld No act of Christes therefore at his last supper importeth any reall sacrifice that he then made but he did institute a Sacrament of thankesgiuing and coâ—maunded vs by eating and drinking to bee partakers of his bodie that was wounded and bloode that was shedde the next daie for the remitting and pardoning of our sinnes So that you must either retayne eating and drinking at the Lordes table or else renounce both the beneâ—it of his passion and memoriall of his death with an open neglect of his last Will and Testament Phi. Wee do retaine it and as you know by our canons we bind all priests that consecrate to communicate in both kindes Theo. Let the decrees of men alone do you bind them to it by the words of Christ Phi. We do though the punishment bee expressed in the canons and not in the Scriptures Theo. It in punishment enough to bee guiltie of the body and bloode of Christ a greater you can not impose make your canons as seuere as you will Phil. Yet you see we binde them to communicate Theophil You should breake Christes institution if you shoulde doe otherwise Philand And therefore wee doe that which I tell you Theophil Then eating and drinking are necessary partes of Christes institution Philand Of his action they are partes but not of the Sacrament Theophil Neither doe I say that they are partes of his bodie blood but of his example and ordinance Philand Wee graunt Theo. And the neglecting of those actions which Christ in his person perfourmed before vs is a breach of his institution as well as the changing or omitting of his wordes Philand In the Priest it is Theo. Of the Priest wee speake for Christ charged him and not women or lay-men to doe as he did Phi. Then wee agree to your last position that if the Priest do not obserue Christes actions as well as Christes wordes he transgresseth Christes institution Theoph. Then your Priestes are all guiltie of violating Christes institution Phi. Doe they not eate and drinke at the Altar as hee did Phi. That Christ himselfe did eate and drinke at the ministration of the Sacrament is not expressed in any part of his institution though some wordes that followe after declare he dranke of the same fruite of the vyne which the rest did but the whole course of his actions speeches stood in deliuering the mysteries vnto others He tooke bread that hee might breake it hee brake it that hee might giue it he gaue it that they should eate and so his wordes declare which are both plurall and spoken to others take ye eate ye not singular or to himselfe Though therefore your Priest take and eate for his part yet since Christ brake the bread that it might bee diuided among others bid them take and eate it is certaine your Priestes neither doe as Christ did nor as hee commaunded his Apostles to do nor as the very wordes of Christ which he repeateth do
is adored in the mysteries and on the Altar Why shoulde hee not bee adored in all places and in all his giftes and for all the monumentes of his grace and mercie bequeathed vs in this life that he may prepare vs for the next And if this rule bee generall howe great cause haue wee to adâ—re him in the water where hee clenseth vs from our sinnes and at the table where hee feedeth and strengthneth our soules and spirites with their proper nourishment which is the precious ransome that was paide to recouer vs from death and hell and to bring vs to his immortall light and blisse What Christian heart recounting his aboundant goodnesse and fatherly readynesse with his owne stripes to heale vs with his owne bloode to washe vs with his owne death to quicken vs will not bee resolued into prayers and teares to yeelde all honour and adoration to him that doeth offer vs these treasures at and on his table Phi. These bee goodly words to bleare mens eyes where in deede you denie him to bee present eyther at or on the Altar Theo. Wee confesse him to bee there present with all his giftes and blessinges to him that will beholde him with the eye of faith and reach out the hand of his soule to apprehende him in greater might and maiestie than you doe when you shroude him with your formes of breade and wine and pale him rounde with a pixe as it were with a sepulchre Mary locall dimension or inclusion within the compasse of the host or chalice wee appoint him none His trueth is annexed to the Sacramentes and his power vnited to the creatures after a wonderfull and inspeakeable manner by the mighty working of the holy ghost but yet wee must not direct his diuine honour and seruice to anie part of the Altar or circumference of the visible creatures wee must rather Lyft vp our hearts as the faithfull were alwayes admonished in this sacrament and take heede that wee doe not basely bende our eyes on the bread or wine to seeke Christ in them and vnderneath them much lesse worshippe them in steede of him which is the next way to dishonor him and deifie them against the very rules and Principles of our faith Phi. But S. Chrysostom saith We adore him on the altar as the Sages did in the manger and S. Nazianzene saith of his sister Gorgonia she called on him which is worshipped on the Altar Theo. What wordes soeuer Chrysostom and Nazianzene vse to expresse the place where Christ is serued and adored yet this is euident that they attribute adoration not to the visible element or sacrament but vnto Christ who may well be saide to be worshipped on the Table or altar for so much as there is the fruite force and eâ—fect of his heauenly grace and trueth proposed vnto all and from thence the prayers and thankes of all are offered vnto him by the religious heart and voice of the Pastor that standeth at the Lordes table to bee the mouth of al and yet you deale vntruely with both those fathers as you do almost with al the rest of the writers that passe your pen. Chrysostomes wordes are Tu non in praecepe id sed in Altarivides Thou seest his bodie not in a manger but on the Altar Now betweene seeing adoring there is good difference if you bee not so blinde that you can see nothing Phi. He speaketh it to that ende that we should adore it as the Sages did when they found him in a manger Theo. He hath some wordes tending to this ende that we should adore the body of Christ since the wicked and barbarous Magi did yeelde him that honour but he ioyneth no such wordes togither as you cite he saith not we adore him on the altar but let vs that be citizens of heauen at least imitate those Barbarians Phi. That is in adoring Christ. Theo. As if we doubted of that But where is on the altar which you haue added of your owne without your authors consent Phi. He sayeth thou seest him on the Altar Theo. But neither with corporall eyes nor vnder the formes of bread and wine And that well appeareth in the very same place when he saith Ascende igitur ad coeli portas tunc quod dicimus intueberis Climbe vp to the gates of heauen and then thou shalt see that which we now say To which end he told them before that becomming Eagles in this life they must fly vppe to heauen it selfe or rather aboue the heauens For where the carcas is saith Christ there wil the Eagles be The Lordes body is the carkas in respect of the death which hee suffered Eagles Christ calleth vs to shew vs that he must flie on high which will come to this body euer mount vpward haue the eye of his mind most bright to behold the sonne of righteousnes He that teacheth you to ascend to the highest heauens there to adore Christ neuer ment you should adore the hâ—st in the Priestes handes in steede of Christ and as hee neuer ment it so he neuer spake it though you haue plaied some ligier de main to make his wordes sound to that sense Phi. Nazianzenes sister called on him that is worshipped vpon the altar Theo. She did so but when she made her prayers to Christ there was neither Priest by nor pixe there that you should dreame shee made her prayers to the host Nazianzene saith shee went to the Church 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the dark of the night kneeling close to yâ— altar she did inuocate 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 him that is honoured thereon not meaning the host which at that instant was not on the Altar but Christ who is truly said to be honoured on the altar or Table because his mercies are there layde foorth in the mysteries and the prayers and supplications of all the faythfull offered chiefely from that place vnto him though hee sit in heauen according to the materiall substance of his humane bodie Phi. He is honored on the Altar that is say you the Altar is the place whence honour is giuen vnto him what sleights you haue to auoyd the fathers Theo. Haue you no worse to enforce them and you shal do them lesse wrong than you doe When the woman of Samaria sayd to Christ Our fathers worshipped God in this hill did she meane that God was in the hill or that the worshippe was there dâ—ne vnto him When it was said to Moses Ye shal serue God vpon this mountaine was that mountaine before hand allotted to God or to his seruice So Christ is honoured on earth though hee bee in heauen because the earth is the place where hee is honored and serued And yet wee doubt not but Christ himselfe is also present euen in the mysteries and on the Altar or Table of the Lorde albeit not in that corporall and carnall manner which you conceiue
my way Phi. Al these fathers affirme the bread to be a signe figure of Christs body This we grant and thereto adde that it is both a figure and the trueth it selfe You may be gone you haue your errand Did I not tell you I would soone dispatch you Theo. You be very pleasureable whatsoeuer the matter be but had you no better skill to dispatch men of their liues than you haue to defeate vs of ouâ— authorities many a thowsand should now liue that you haue slaine Philan. You would runne to by-quarrels but I must hold you to the stake Theo. In deede that was alwayes the surest answere that you gaue vs. The rest was nothing no more is this For first it is apparently false that in Sacraments the signe the truth may be all one thing Next if that might be yet doth it not disappoint any one of these testimonies For they do not only witnes that the bread is a sign of christs bodie but also that christes wordes were figuratiue and that in deliuering the mysteries he called the bread his body by way of signification similitude representation after the maner of Sacramentes in a signe not according to the letter but in a spirituall and mysticall vnderstanding and if you respect the precise speech improperly and figuratiuely And though the signe might happily be one thing with the truth it self as you affirm wtout al truth yet may not a figuratiue speech be properly takeÌ„ nor the letter vrged against the spirituall meaning least that which was spoken to quicken the inward man subuert the faith and indanger the soul which in mistaking a figure of speech must needs insue as S. Augustine sheweth In principio cauendum est ne siguratam locutionem ad literam accipias Ad hoc enim pertinet quod ait Apostolus litera occidit spiritus autem viuificat Cum enim figurate dictum sic accipitur tanquam proprie dictum sit carnaliter sapitur Neque vllamors animae congruentius appellatur The first thing that you must beware is this that you take not a figuratiue speech according to the letter To that belongeth the Apostles admonition the letter killeth the spirite quickneth For when wee take that which is figuratiuely spoken as if it were properly spoken it is a carnall sense Neither is there any thing more rightly called the death of the soule In vaine then doe you thinke to shift off the matter with this foolish conceite that one and the same thing may be both a trueth and a figure For were that so yet can not a figuratiue speech bee literally taken without killing the soule and the Fathers which I produced affirme the minde and speech of our Sauiour in calling the bread his body was spirituall figuratiue and mysticall by way of signification such as is vsed in Sacramentes not literall nor carnall according to the strict sâ—und and order of the wordes Marie now your answere besides that it is altogether idle is vtterly false For in this sacrament as in al others there is great difference betwixt the signes and the things theÌ„selues and the distinct properties of ech are so sensible that if your wits be not laid vp for holy daies you can not but perceiue theÌ„ The signes are visible the things inuisible the signes are earthly the things heaueÌ„ly the signes corruptible the thinges immortall the signes corporall the thinges spirituall The signes are one thing the trueth is not the same but an other thing and euen by plaine Arythmetike they be two things and not one The Eucharist as Ireneus teacheth Consisteth of two things an earthly an heauenly This is it that wee say this is it that we seeke by all meanes saith Austen to approue to wit that the sacrifice of the church is made of two and consisteth of two thinges sacramento re sacramenti of the sacred signe and the thing it selfe For sacramentes are signa rerum aliud existentia aliud significantia signes of truthes being one thing in themselues and signifieng an other It were no figure saith Chrysostome if all thinges incident to the truth were to be found in it much lesse if it were the truth it selfe Sacraments haue a certaine similitude but no identitie with the thinges whose signes they be If therefore To take the signes for the thinges bee a miserable seruitude of the soule as Austen noteth what is it to affirme the signes to be the things themselues but a wilfull blindnesse of heart choosing rather to rush into any brake with daunger both of credit and conscience than to acknowledge the truth once disdayned and refused Phi. I haue yet an other answere in stoare Theo. If that be no better than this your stoare is little worth Phi. The most part of the Fathers which you bring speake not of Christes wordes when hee did institute the Sacrament but declare his meaning in the sixth of Sainct Iohns Gospell when the Capernites stumbled at his doctrine Theo. You may keepe this still in stoare for the goodnes of it Tertullian Austen Cyprian Ambrose Hierom Chrysostom Theodorete Prosper Bede Bertram Druthmarus and your own law speake directly of the sacrament and so doth Origen when he calleth the bread on the Lords table the typicall and figuratiue body onely that place of his mentioneth the sixt of Iohn where he saith If you take this saying according to the letter this letter killeth Phi. Mary Sir that place is the chiefest how closely you could conuey it in amongest the rest to make men beleeue he spake that of the sacrament which is nothing so Theo. Why doth not the 6. of S. Iohn foretel and declare the same kinde of eating Christs flesh and drinking his bloode which was after perfourmed by Christ at his last supper wheÌ„ he said This is my body this is my blood Phi. Doth it say you Theo. I do not say Christ speaketh in the sixth of Iohn of the materiall elementes of bread and wine which were then first ordained to bee pledges of his inuisible graces when the Supper was first instituted and therefore not spoken of before that time but this is it which I affirme and in this the learned and auncient Fathers agree with mee that where this mystery consisteth of two partes an earthlie matter and an heauenly vertue the sixth of Sainct Iohn treateth not of the signes but of the thinges them-selues not of the figures representing but of the trueth represented not of that which is corporally proposed but of that which is Ghostly receiued in the Lordes supper which is the better and diuiner part of this Sacrament and that the Disciples there learned in what sort themselues and all the faithfull after them should eate the Lords flesh and drinke the Lords blood at his table to be thereby quickned norished and incorporated with him as members of his mysticall body So that if any
peruert the meaning of Leo and if you did but vnderstand the right course of his reason you would suppresse both his voice and your vaunt for verie shame Phi. He that will trust your sayings shall haue manie false fiers when he should not Theo. And he that will credit your doings shall feele manie quick flames when he would not Phi. You be better at quipping than at answering Theo. You are lothe we should encroch on your common But returne to Leo. Can you tell against whome he wrote Phi. Against such as you are that denied the trueth of Christes bodie and blood in the Sacrament Theo. Were they men without names or names without men Phi. Mock not they were your auncetours Theo. They say it is a wise childe that knoweth his owne father Doe you But in sadnes whome did Leo traduce in that sermon Phil. Mary Eutiches and such like heretikes Theoph. You saie well for Leo nameth him but a litle before in that sermon and against his opinion he reasoneth Philand I am content with that Theoph. What was his error Phi. He denied the trueth of Christes bodie and blood in the Sacrament Theo. Who told you so Phi. I gather it by those that refute him Theo. By them you shall learne his error but this it was not Philan. What was it say you Theo. Eutiches affirmed that Christes humane nature and substance was not onely glorified by his ascension but consumed and turned into the nature immensitie of his Godhead Against him wrate Theodorete Gelasius and others and one of the cheefest argumentes which they bring against him is that which Leo here toucheth in a woorde or two Phi. That argument cleane confoundeth your sacramentarie Sect. Theo. Yours or ours it must needes confound for this it is As the bread and wine after consecration are changed and altered into the bodie and bloud of Christ so is the humane nature of Christ conuerted into his diuine after his resurrection ascension but the bread and wine are not changed neither in substance nor forme nor figure nor naturall proprieties but only in grace and working ergo Christs humane nature is not changed into his diuine EITHER IN SVBSTANCE circumscription or forme but only endewed with glory and immortalitie Phi. This is no Catholike reason but sauoreth altogether of your hereticall poison Theo. They which first framed and vrged this reason against Eutiches in your opinion were they heretikes Phi. No father euer vsed it Theo. If they did must not they be doubbed for heretikes as the first proposers of that reason or at least you for affirming now the quite contrarie For you reiect both their assumption conclusion against Eutiches as starke false and whose ancetour then is Eutiches but yours Phi. They do not vse it as you report it Theo. Looke you offspring of Eutiches whether Gelasius Theodoret and Augustine do not vrge it in those verie pointes and wordes which I repeate Thus Gelasius framed his reason against Eutiches An image or similitude of the bodie and bloud of Christ is celebrated in the action of the mysteries It is therefore apparant and euident enough that we must holde the same opinion of Christ the Lord which we professe celebrate and receiue in his image That as those signes by the working of the holy Ghost passe into the diuine substance and yet remaine in the proprietie of their owne nature Euen so that verie principall mysterie it selfe whose force truth that Image assuredly representeth doth demonstrate one whole and true Christ to continue the two natures of which he consisteth properlie remaining And lest you should not vnderstand what he ment by this The signes still abide in the proprietie of their owne nature he expoundeth himselfe an saith Non desinit esse substantia vel natura panis vini The substance or nature of bread and wine ceaseth not or perisheth not When Theodoret had made an entrance to the very same reason by laying this foundation Oportet archetypum Imaginis esse exemplar the Originall must be answerable to the Image the heretike caught the words out of his mouth and said It hapned in good time that you did mention the diuine mysteries for euen thereby will I prooue the Lordes bodie to be chaunged into an other nature As then the signes of the Lordes bodie and blood are other thinges before the inuocation of the Priest but after they are chaunged and become other than that they were so the Lords bodie after his assumption is chaunged into his diuine substance The maior being good such as Gelasius and Theoderet did both auouch that as the signes were changed after consecration so was Christes humanitie after his assumption if your opinion had then beene taught in the church that the substance of bread and wine were changed by consecration the conclusion had beene infallible for Eutiches error that the substance of Christes humanitie had beene changed by his ascention into his diuinitie and not only both these Fathers had had their mouthes stopped but Eutiches error had beene inâ—olâ—ble as beeing grounded on a Maior that was a confessed and famous trueth and on a Minor that was as you thinke the vndoubted saith of the Church Mary the Minor in deed was apparantly false though you now defend it for Catholike Doctrine and with the plaine deniall of that as a manifest vntrueth Theodoret inferreth the contrarye that because neither the Substance nor naturall proprieties of the bread and wine are chaunged by consecration as the whole Church then beleeued and confessed therefore neither the substance nor shape nor circumscription of Chrisâ—es humane nature were changed by his ascention but his body remaineth in the â—ame substance quantitie and forme that he rose from death and ascended vp withall and with the very same forme and substance of flesh shall come to iudge the worlde These are his wordes Thou art caught saith Theodoret to the heretike with the same nets that thou laiedst for others The mysticall signes after sanctification doe not depart from their own nature For they remanie in their former substance and figure and forme c. Conferre then the Image with the originall and thou shalt see the likenes betweene them For the figure must be like to the trueth That body therefore of christ in heauen hath his former shape and figure circumscription to speake al at once his former substance Lay all your heades together aâ—d graunting the Maior which the whole Church held auoide the conclusion of Eutiches withâ—ut the denying the Minor as Theodoret did which yet is your faith and beleefe at this day and we wil grant you to be Catholiks and our selues heretikes If you cannot see how far you be falleÌ„ from the doctrine of Christs church and that in no lesse point than the greatest and chieâ—esâ— Sacrament on which you haue wickedly founded your adoration oblation halfe communion priuate masse and barbarous prayers without
els by feeding mice with miracles and leaâ—ing meâ— in manâ—â—â—â— dauâ—ger â—â—â—pen Idolatrie For what is it say you that miâ—â—â—â—â— â—hen they lâ—ght on your host what aunswer make you to this question that your master proposed and your pewfellowes striue for Will you say with Guiâ—mundus and Walden two principall vpholders of your new found presence that when mice gnaw the Sacrament it is but a trick of deceptio visus wee thinke they doe so but in deede they doe not so she poore mice be otherwise occupied our sight is deceiued They must needes be verie louing and deuout chickens of Antichrists broad that will suffer you to pul out their eies and â—elceâ—e that you say though they see the contrarie To such men you may soone perswade what Religion you list but the wise reader will neuer be led with such monsterous fansies Will you take part with Innocentius and others that statim desinit esse Sacramentum ex quo à mure tangitur it ceaseth to be a Sacrament as soone as anie mouse or other â—east toucheth it and the bodie of Christ leaueth that host for euer Then besides that you prouâ—de miracles to faâ—te mice and nourâ—sh them with empty shewes you must before you may worship any such host as hath beene reserued which is common with you you musâ— I say caâ—l beastes birds wormes and flies coâ—â—m nobis and examine them by Commission whether any of them touched your sacrament Else how can you be suâ—e that Christ is there present For if your Sacrament were but pecked by some bird or mâ—lâ—d by some â—â—â—se Christ is departed and the shape of bread is adored by you with diuine honour as if it were the sonne of God which is palpable and indefensable 〈◊〉 â—â—â—ry Like you neither of these bold and blind ghesses Indeed they be rather sickâ—â—â— dreames than graue mens answersâ— yet if these please you not you must 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 be driuen to say with Alâ—xander and Antonius that the flesh of Christ descendeth into the bellies of myâ—â— dogges and swinâ— as well as into the bodâ—es of wicked and vngodly â—eceiuers which whether it be worse thaâ— carnall and caperniticall let the sober and discreeâ—e â—eader pronounce for 〈◊〉 Phi. You may not doubt in 〈◊〉 church but some things are amâ—sse Theo. It goeâ—h haâ—d wiâ—h your church when these 〈…〉 amisse Farre otherwise did the learned and auncient fathers thinke and speake of this mysterie They taught christ to be present not in â—â—â—sh but in grace not in reall and corporall existence but in spirituall and fruitfull â—ffâ—cience They prepared for â—â—m not their iawes and bellies but their mindes and harts They feâ— him not downe from heauen to spred him on a patene and shrowd him in a pixe but exalted all men to mount alâ—ft with the winges of faith and there aboue in heauen not here belowe in earth to behold the brightnes of his glorie and tast the sweetnes of his mercie In proposing vrging repeating which doctrine wee finde them most carefull and diligent most earnest and vehement and that if nothing else will serue to conuince your nouelties For as that part of man which eateth the flesh of Christ euerteth your reall presence because no locall or corporall substaunce can enter or seede the soulâ— and the trueth of Christes flesh in this mysterie by the generall consent of all ages and churches doeth enter and feede the soule so the place whither wee must ascend before wee can eate the Lords flesh doth clearly confute the same Where Christ is present thither must our hearts be directed when they are prepared to eate Christ But the church of God in her publike prayers the catholike Fathers in their writinges neuer taught the faithfull to sâ—t their affections on the thinges before them but to lift vp their hearts from the Lords â—able to the highest heauens where Christ sate at the right hand of his Father Ergo neither shee beleeued nor they professed that Christ was really closed vnder the formes of bread wine Which point dislike you Philander or which thinke you best to deny Shoulde our hearts be turned from the place where Christ is present I trust you bee more respectfull of God and your christian dutie than to say that the mindes and hearts of christian men may bee turned from Christ or from the place where Christ is Should the people turne their hearts to your host and chalice looking there to find Christ Why then did S. Paul teach vs to seeke those thinges which are aboue where Christ sitteth at the right hand of God and to set our affections on heauenly thinges not on thinges which are on earth as where Christ is not to be found Why did the primatiue church in this sacrament alwayes criâ— Sursum corda Lift vppe your hearts and the rest answere habemus ad Dominum we lift them vppe vnto the Lord Why did the learned and ancient Fathers teach the godly not to regard the thinges proposed on the Lordes table but to mount aboue the skies with the spirituall winges of faith there to fasten on the Lordes fleshe as Eagles and there to receiue the cup of the new Testament Were the fleshe of Christ really placed on your altars as you tel vs why should they skip him there corporallie present and leade the people to seeke for him so farre that their bodies by no meanes coulde attaine to the place but onely their mindes and spirits Ambrose There is a bodie of which it was saide my fleshe is meat in deede About this bodie are the true Eagles which houer about it with spirituall winges The soules of the righteous are therefore compared to Eagles because they flie high and leaue these places or thinges below We touch not Christ with corporall handling but by faith Therefore neither on the earth nor in the earth nor after the flesh ought we to seek Christ if we will find him Chrysostom That dreadfull sacrifice doth lead vs to this that in this life becomming Eagles we should flie vp to heauen or rather aboue the heauens For where the carcasse is thither wil the Eagles Nowe the Lordes body is the carcasse by reason of his death Eagles he calleth vs to shew that he which commeth to this bodie must flie aloft and haue nothing to do with the earth but euer mount vpward behold the bright sun of righteousnes with the piercing eie of his mind This table is for agles not for â—houghs Ierom Let vs ascend with the Lord into the great parlour dâ—cked cleane aboue in heauenâ— receiue at his hands the cup of the new Testament there keepe our passouer with him Paschasius If we be willing to receiue these things with Christ let vs ascend aboue into the parlour of life Let vs mount vpward because they which staie below on earth drinke not sweete wine with Christ
the great learned and generall councell of Laterane Cap. 3. de haeret This was the next way to make all safe on their side Platin. in Innocent 3.800 Hungrie friers brought into the councell to ouerrule the Bishops A fine stratageme of the Pope to set out thinges consulted as if they had bin concluded Platina in vita Innocentij 3. Nothing concluded in the Councel of Lateran THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES Cap. 4. Matth. 19. By Gods lawe you may not resist much lesse displace the Prince The woord of God binding you to obedience neither Pope nor couÌ„cel can assoile you from it This is it which Master Allen professeth to prooue in the 5. chap. of his DefeÌ„ce What subiection honor God alloweth vnto Princes 1. Peter 2. Rom. 13. Prouerb 8. * Wisdom 6. * Rom. 13. 1. Peter 2. Prouer. 24. We may not dishonor princes in word deede or thought Exod. 22. * Eccle. 10. Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. Iudgement threatned chiefly to theÌ„ that despise Magistrates 2. Pet. 2. Iude. Rom. 13. Luk. 20. Honor subiection tribute by Gods law due to Princes By the Iesuits doctrine Caesar shal haue that which God alloweth him so long as pleaseth the Pope You may not resist them or despise them ergo much lesse displace them Iohn 8. Deposition is an authentike rebellion vnder the Popes scale The defence of English catholikes cap. 5. 1. Reg. 10.15.16 Saul deposed for vsurping spirituall function 1. Reg. 22. The Prophets denounced both the temporall eternall iudgementes of God but they inflicted neither By these exaÌ„ples Priestes may kill men set their houses on fire or pull out their eyes as wel as displace Princes if the Iesuites collections bee good The Popes commission to depose Princes they promised to proue by scripture nowe vainly suppose it without Scripture Samuel Elias and Elizeus had speciall extraordinary commaundement from God to doe as they did The Pope may not doe that which the Prophetes did till hee haue the same precept which they had To put down kings is an honour specially reserued vnto God him selfe Luc. 1. Dan. 2. Dan. 4. The Pope will depose Princes as well as God The example of Saul God prescribed Samuel what he shuld say to Saul ful sore for against the will of Samuel 1. Kings 16. All Israell and Dauid obeied and honoured Saul as the Lords annointed to his dying day The defence Cap. 5. Aug. contra Adamant 1. Kings 24. 1. Kings 24. 1. Kings 26. 2. Kings 1. Ibidem Cap. 17. 1. Kings 26. Dauid confesseth he might not kill Saul without sinne Contra Adimantum ca. 17. The words be grounded rather on Adimantus assertion than S. Austens perswasion S. Aug. speaketh not of Sauls deposition but of reuenge permitted by Moses law which the Maniches did obiect Adimantus antecedent returned on his own head Aug. Centra lit Petilian lib. 2. cap. 48. S. Aug. holdeth that Saul had the holinesse of his princely inunction to the houre of his death Dauid put himselfe in armes to saue his life not to seeke the Crowne Saul reiected from hauing the kingdome to him his seede * 1. Kings 15. The children of Israell required a king after the maner of other Nations that is a setled succession in the kingdom 1. Reg. 13. * To thee and thine for euer 1. Kings 15. Aug. de ciuit Dei li. 17. ca. 7. S. Augustine expoundeth Saules reiection as we do * The Scripture is cleare for the same sense 1. Kings 16. Dauid aduanced when hee was but a boy keeping sheep Dauid neuer claimed the Crowne from Saul 1. Kinges 20. The Priestes protested that Dauid was a faithfull seruant to Saul 1. King 22. All Israel alleadged Samuels fact that Dauid ought to succeede 2. Kings 5. 1. Chron. 11. God annointed such as should succeede The Defence cap. 5. 3. Reg. 13.14 The example of Ieroboam a wicked schismatik denouÌ„ced by a priest Prophets may threaten wicked Princes in Gods name but not depriue them of their crownes The Prophet that cried out against Ieroboams Altar spake not a worde of his schisme It is easie for any side to applie figures as thy list Reuel 17. Reuel 19. Gods threatning IeroboaÌ„ is nothing to the doposing of Princes by priestes * 3. Kinges 14. The Defence cap. 5. The example of proud Ozias that would take vnto him the authoritie of priests Vzziah strikeÌ„ with a leprosie but not deposed The high Priest withstood the king with wordes not with weapons The Iesuites delight in martial terms * 2. Chron. 26. De verbis Esai Vidi DominuÌ„ The Iesuits gather coÌ„clusioÌ„s cleane against the Scriptures and their own canons * Caus. 23. quaest 8. ¶ 1. * Ibidem ¶ 2. * Ibidem ¶ 3. * Ibidem ¶ Clerici * Ibidem ¶ quicunque Ibidem dict ¶ quicunque § hijs ita * 1. Tim. 3. 2. Tim. 2. Tit. 1. * 2. Cor. 10. * Mat. 24. The Princes person no Priest may violate or so much as touch Psal. 105. 1. Kings 24. They might not vse violence what needed any when the King hastned of himselfe to goe forth * 2. Chro. 26. * 2. Chro. 26. 4. Kings 15. 2. Chron. 26. 4. King 15. Oziah was king of Iudah to the day of his death The Priestes were to discerne lepers but the Magistrate to see them kept apart from others Numb 5. The leprosie of the soule no cause of depriuation vnto Princes In Luc. lib. 5. de leproso mundato Chrysost. in Mat hom 16. oper imperfect hom 10. To beare the sword in matters of religioÌ„ is the Princes and not the priests charge The defence cap. 5. 4. Reg. 11. The example of the deposition death of Queene Athalia by Ioida the hie-Priest Athalia an vsurper and slaine by the Kings authoritie Ioidaes warrant to commaund Athalia to be put to death in the Kings name 2. Chrâ— 23. 4. Kings 11. The defence cap. 5. 3. Reg. 18.19 The executioÌ„ done by Elias the Prophet vpon many with deposition of Princes 4. Reg. 1. 3. Reg. 19. 4. Reg. 9. Elias zeale 3. Kings 18. Elias caused the Prophets of Baal to be slaine by the publike authoritie of the King and his people Elias was a Prophet and not an executioner How Elias gate Achab the whole Realm to decree the slaughter of Baals prophets * 3. Kings 17. Vers. 1. * 3. Kings 18. Vers. 23. Vers. 24. Vers. 1. Vers. 24. Vers. 39. Vers. 40. Vers. 24. The King and the people consented to Elias offer Vers. 20. Vers. 24. 3. Kings 19. Elias is said in the Scripture to haue doon the deede because he was the procurer and author of it Acts. 7. Iosu. 10. 3. Kings 14. God sent â—er from heauen not Elias Luke 9. * Exod. 12. * Iudges 16. * 4. Kings 2. THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES The annointing of Hazael 4. Kings 8. Iehu willed by God to take the sword and root out Achabs house 4. Kings 9. Ibidem vers
of them is the popish Sacrifice August de side ad Peâ—â— cap. 19. The Catholike Church offeâ—eth bread and wine to God for a thankesgiuing in remembrance of his sonnes death Our Sacrifice is the giuing of thankes and remembring of his death b Irineus lib. 4. cap. 32. c Ibidem cap. 34. The Church offereth to God of his creatures with thanksgiuing sanctifying that which the faithfull receiue at the Lords table d Clemens Apost constitutio lib. 8. cap. 17. e Liturg. Chrys. Basil. f Lib. 4. cap. 34. g Offertorium Missae Their owne Masse-booke is against the sacrifice which they defend to be in their masse h Ibidem i Ibidem k Ibidem By their owne bookes it is euident that they doe not sacrifice Christ but the creatuâ—es of bread and wine Marke this contradiction in their masse-booke to the sacrifice which the Iesuits pretend l Aug. ad Bonif. epist. 23. Christ is offered not in substance but in a Sacrament or representation of his death Christ slaine for our sinnes is the true sacrifice of the Lords table a Cypr. li. 2. ep 3. b Ambros. in 10. ca. epist. ad Heb. c Euseb. de demonst Euang. lib. 1. cap. 10. d Chrys. in Mat. hom 83. e Aug. contra Faust. l. 20. c. 21. The actions and elements of the supper resemble his death f De cons. dist 2. § cum frangitur g 1. Cor. cap. 11. As Christ is crucified in the mysticall supper euen so is he offered h Hier. in ps 95. i Chrysost. in acta Apost hom 21. k De cons. dist 2. § quid sit sanguis l Aug. Euang. quaest l. 2. ca. 38. m De cons. dist 2. § hoc est quod alâ—imus n Glossa de cons. dist 2. § quid sit sanguis o Chrysost. in 10. cap. episâ—â—d Hebr. p Ambr. in 11. ca. epist. 1. ad Cor. q Eusebale demonstra Euangelic lib. 1. ca. 10. r August 83. quaest cap 61. Christ is offered at the table that is a sacrament similitude of his death is celebrated s De cons dist 2. § quia corpus This is Christian comfortable doctrine Theod. in cap. 8. ad Hebr. Theoph. in 10. cap. ad Hebrâ—os What sacrifice the fathers taught and offered * Canon Missae supra § propitio ac sereno vultu a Liturgia Basilij b Cypr. li. 2. epist. 3. August 83. quaest ca. 3. c Dionys. eccles hierach cap. 3. d Paschal de cons. dist 2. § iteratur The true exposition of the Sacrifice at the Lordes table How long the Church was without their kind of sacrifice Sententiarum lib. dist 12. The master of the sentences is against the Iesuits in the sacrifice of their Masse f Glossa de cons. dist 2. ¶ semel g § in Christo. h § Iteratur Thom. part 3. quâ—est 83. art 1. * The latter schoolemen since Thomas mistaking the former turned these words to opus operatum and taught the Priests act to be the right meane to applie Christes death to the quick and the dead Can their doctrine be Catholike that so latelie was vnknowen to their own fellowes 24. places cited by the Iesuits in their testament to no purpose and so 14. by the maker of their Apologie Their reall actuall sacrifice must needes be made with handes and so the gestures of the Priests hands is all the sacrifice the Iesuites haue What Sacrifice it is that God regardeth The Rhemish Test. fol. 447. Malac. 1. The prophesy of Malachie discussed 1. Pet. 2. What sacrifices the newe testament teacheth vs to offer vnto God a Hebr. 13. The Sacrifice of praise Of mercie b Phil. 4. c Rom. 12. Of our selues d Psal. 115. Eccles. 35. Psal. 50. These be the sacrifices of the new testament which God requireth at our handes and of which Malachie speaketh The Iesuites in alledging the fathers vse such cunning that a man caÌ„ hardlie perceiue to what end they name them Three fathers abused by the Iesuits to peruert the words of Malachie Cyprian in that place which they cite doth not so much as speake of Malachie Cyp. ad QuirinuÌ„ lib. 1. cap. 16. Iustinâ—â—n Dial. cum Tryphone aduers. Iudaeos Iustinus restraineth the words of Malachie to praiers and thankes other sacrifice he acknowledgeth none in the Lords supper Irenae li. 4. ca. 33 * Ibidem cap. 34 Ireneus expoundeth Malachies wordes of praier obedience and thankesgiuing as we doe Iren. lib. 4. ca. 34 Ireneus teacheth not the offering of Christ to his father but of creatures for a signe of thaÌ„kfulnes Iren. lib. 4. cap. 34 The rest of the fathers interprete Malachies wordes after the same manner a Tertul. aduer lud eos b Tertul. aduer Marc. lib. 4. c Euseb. de demonst Euang. lib. 1. cap. 6. d Cyril contra Iuliaâ—â—m â—i 10. e Hie. in Zachariam lib. 2. ca. 8. f August contr liter Petilia li 2. cap. 86. We striue not for the worde sacrifice which the Iesuites verie diligentlie prooue but for their kinde of sacrifice which they cannot proue by the testimonie of any one father In what sense the Lords supper is both a Sacrament a Sacrifice Our duties to God are our sacrifices FroÌ„ these sacrifices the Eucharist hath his name This sacrameÌ„t hath the similitude and therefore the name of Christs death and passion The Iesuits are verie plentifull in heaping impertinent allegations The Rhe. Test pag. 447. All these fathers speake of Christs bodie broken and blood shed on the cross which are resembled in this sacrament The power of Christs death the Iesuits attribute to the Priests act The Iesuites sacrifice How the death of Christ is both offered and applied Your feate was to prepare the peoplâ— against a daie A man maie soone peâ—uerâ— the fathers by skores as the Iesuits haue done in their Testament What sacrifice it is the Iesuits woulde establish They produce the name of sacrifice vsed by the fathers and vnderstand thereby their owne fansies The reason whie we doe not vse the worde sacrifice so often as the fathers doe The fathers phrases beguiled the Iesuits whiles they were too eger on them The name of sacrifice hath no warrant in the Scripture The Rhe. Test fol. 447. Heb. 7. A man shall finde manie thinges in the Rhemish obseruations which are not the text of the Scripture The Rhe. Test. fol. 447. The Iesuites would prooue if they could tell how that S. Paul calleth the lords Supper a Sacrifice * This point by point is not worth a blew point Their misconstering of S. Paul examined The faulte which the Apostle reprooueth in the Corinthians This was partaking with Idols and dishonoring of God S. Pauls reason against it by waie of comparison or opposition Though Saint Pauls reason be â—ramed by waie of comparâ—son yet the Iesuits illation is not necessary Eating of thinges consecrated vnto Idols is fellowship with diuâ—lâ— though they be not sole â—â—elie sacrificed vnto them The Iesuites prooue by the
sacraments they bee This maketh nothing for your locall inclosing of Christ vnder accidentes neither for your corporal mingling of his flesh with your flesh which are the two points that we chiefely detest in your reall presence Thus the greatest storme from which you thought no roose could rescue vs is halfe ouerpast and no hurt done if the rest fal as faire besides vs it wil be high time for your to leaue disputing and fall to practising as the rest of your fellowes do which bee lurking at home to infuse a rebellion or stirring abroad to boile it vp to his highth Your kingdom will neuer reflorish by pen and paper you must lay more plots and make new mariages Your time is short your rage great Phi. When you be confuted by reason then beginne you to charge vs with treason but answere the places which we bring you or I will leaue you I haue somewhat else to doing Theo. I thinke it bee the truest word you spake this moneth but an answere if that be all you looke for you shall not lackâ— The fathers whom you alleage for eating the real naturall flesh of Christ drinking his blood with your mouthes throates are fowly abused their words ignorantly misconstered if not purposely peruerted Phi. Are you there at host I see by your winding you wil run to their meaning Theo. What wroÌ„g is that if by their own rules I recal you to the right conceiuing of their wordâ— Phi. If you may make rules for religion we shall haue some wise worke of it I dare vndertake Theo. If themselues made rules to direct their hearers least their words should happily be mistaken you shew both your religion wisedom in refusing the same Phi. We refuse theÌ„ not if they be theirs Theo. If they be not you may the sooner repel theÌ„ Phi. Wel then what are they The. There shal not be many of them one will serue this turne Phi. That one then what is it The. The signes haue the names of the things themselues therfore out of the places which you haue brought you may not conclude that the naturall flesh of Christ is actually eaten with teeth or his blood really drunk with your lips but rather that the visible signes elements which are corporally receiued into your mouthes stomackes haue the vertues of those thinges whose names thâ—y beare after consecration Phi. I thought we should haue some such shift but trust me this of all others is the fondest absurdest that you could make For what ground of faith shal persist vnshaken if you giue men this scope to confesse the nâ—mâ—s but not the thinges So the Iew may reply when Christ is proued to be the true Mâ—ssias that he is so called but not so in deede So any heretâ—k may delude the whole scriptures if words shal stand as empty sounds without their sense See to what miserie you be driuen whiles you withstand the blessed Sacrament how far better were you to adore the same with vs catholâ—ks than to run into such hereticall briers The. Your sumptuous exhortatioÌ„ is but a ridiculous Iudification of your selues others We do not say that in matters of doctrine words may be receiued without their natural due signification but in Sacramentes we say the signes remaining in their former substance are called by the names of the thinges themselues therfore you must take good heed that you do not rashly conclude that of the one which was spokeÌ„ of the other least you fall into that seruitude sicknes of the soule which S. Austen warned you of before Phi. Would you appoint wheÌ„ the fathers words shal be consâ—ered of the signes wâ—en of the things The. Neither we nor you themselues are the â—ittest men to limit what they spake of the signes what of the things Phi. And do they say they spake this which I alleage of the signes The. They do Phi. â—f I should stay here til that be proued I should neuer go hence Theo. The matter is not so hard to be proued as you make it For if they mainly teach that Christs flesh is not eaten with teeth not swalowed with iawes not receiued into the coÌ„passe of the belly they must eithâ—r contradict theÌ„selues which they do not or those speeches which you bring must be vnderstood of the signes called by the names of Christs flesh blood though in truth they be not those things but sacraments of them as they by their own cautions wil instruct you Phi. I can not abide this going about the bush Theo. Indeed madmeÌ„ wil through the midst though they tear their flesh to the boanes for their labor Phi. Do you think vs mad The. It is greater madnes to sâ—ea your own soules with the rigor of other mens phrases when they giue you warning to the contrary than to wound your owne bodies with the sharpnes of any thornes Phi. We presse not their speeches against their prescriptions you rather would frustrate their meaning with your figures The. Let them tell their owne tales what they teach concerning the parts of this Sacrament then it will soone be seene whether you or we peruert them There be three thinges in the bread by like proportion in the wine that may be douted of the name the substance the power operation When we see which of these three be changed and which vnchaunged the myst of error will soonâ— be scattered The name we prooue to be chaunged by the generall confession of all the fathers Our Sauiour saiâ—h Theodoret changed the names and called the signe by the name of his bodie Christ called bread his bodie saieth Tertullian The signifying elementes and the thinges signified are called by the same names saith Cyprian Before the wordes of Christ saith Ambrose that which is offered is called bread when once the words of Christ be rehearsed it is now called not bread but his bodie The bread saith Prosper is called the bodie of Christ being in trueth the Sacrament that is the sacred signe of Christes bodie Chrysostom After sanctification it is discharged from the name of bread and counted worthie to beare the name of the Lords bodie notwithstanding the nature of brâ—ad still remaine Rabanus Because bread strengthneth our bodies therefore is it â—itly termed the bodie of Christ. Bertram The signes be called the Lords body blood by reason they take the name of that thing whose sacraments they be The general rule is plainely set downe by the famous Clarke S. Austen in these wordes If Sacraments had not a certaine likenes and resemblance to the things whose sacraments they are they should be no sacraments at all And for his similitude they commonly beare the names of the things themselues As therefore the Sacrament of christs body is after a sort the bodie of christ and the sacrament of christes blood
after the same sort the blood of christ euen so the sacrament of faith meaning thereby baptisme is saith We he buried saith Paul with christ through baptism into his death Hâ— saith not we signifie that his burial but he saith plainly we 〈…〉 The sacrameÌ„t of so great a thing he would not cal but by the 〈…〉 thing it self Upon this verie ground be concluded as you heard 〈…〉 Lâ—â—d doubted not not to say this my body when he gaue the signe of his body What maâ—uell then if the catholike Fathers vsed often the names of the body blood of Christ where the materiall elementes of bread and wine must be vnderstood since this is the certaine rule of al sacraments and the common order of all ancient diuines writing of the Lordes supper to call the giftes proposed at the Lordes table the body and blood of Christ. The wilfull contempt of which obseruation hath miserably snared and hampered you and your fellowes euerie where referring and forcing that to the naturall fleshe of Christ which by the learned and godly fathers was spoken and ment of the visible signes called by the names of the body and blood of Christ. The second thing that you sticke at is the substance of bread which we say remaineth and abideth as well after consecration as before You wil haue it either vanish to nothing or else to bee turned and conuerted into the very fleshe of Christ there present God maÌ„ vnder the whitenes roundnes such like shewes appearances of bread left only to content the sight and palate least the raw flesh of Christ should displease your eyes or offend your tast This is your doctrine and this we say is not catholike The church of Christ neuer held that the substance of bread perished or ceased after consecration it is a late deuise you can bring no father that is ancient for this assertion they neuer taught they neuer heard they neuer dreampt any such thinges They taught that the mysticall signes were creatures well knowen not straunge and miraculous accidentes that the substance of bread was not changed but remained still after consecration and this they taught in as plaine words as heart can imagine or tongue expresse lette the Reader bee iudge if I â—aye not the truth Gelasius an ancient Bishop of Rome for his antiquitie reuerenced of vs for his place not to be refused of you writeth thus against Eutiches The sacraments which we receiue of the body blood of Christ are a diuine thing by them are we made partakers of the diuine nature yet for all that ceaseth not the substance or nature of bread wine to be Theodoret The mystical signes do not after sanctification depart from their own nature for they remaine in their former substance figure forme Ambrose Thou camest to the altar â—awest the sacraments theron wonderest at the very creature yet it is a â—olemn known creature Ireneus Christ counseling or willing his disciples to offer to God the first fruits of those creatures tooke that bread which is a creature gaue thankes saying this is my body We must therefore in all thinges be found thankefull to God the creator offering the first fruits of those creatures which be his and this oblation the Church onely maketh in puritie to the creatour offering to him of his own creatures with thankes giuing Origen The Lords bread according to the material partes thereof goeth into the belly and thence to the draught so that it is not the matter of breade that doeth proâ—itte the râ—ceiuer but the worde rehearsed ouer it Epiphanius That which our Sauiour our tooke in his hand and saide this is my body wee see to bee neither proportional nor like to his image in flesh nor his inuisible Deity for this is of a round figure hath no power of sense but our Lord wee knowe to bee wholy sense wholy sensitiue Cyprian Since the Lord said do this in my remembraÌ„ce this is my flesh this is my blood as often as with these words this faith we do that he did this substantial bread cup sanctified with a solemn blessing is profiâ—able for the life safegard of the whole man being both a medicine to heal our infirmities a sacrifice to clense our iniquities Chrysostom After coÌ„secration it is deliuered from the name of bread reputed worthy to be called the Lords body nothwithstanding the nature of bread still remaine Austen These things are therefore called Sacramentes because in them one thing is seen an other thing vnderstood That which is seen speciem habet corporalem hath a corporal shape or kind that which is vnderstood hath a spiritual fruit This is of al other a miserable seruitude of the soule to mistake the signes for the things themselues not to be able to lift vp the eye of the minde aboue the corporall creature to behold the light that is eternall The councell of Constantinople Christ commaunded the whole substaunce of breade chosen for his image to bee set on his table least if it resembled the shape of a man idolatrie might bee committed Bertram The signes as touching the substances of the creatures are the same after consecration which they were before Can you looke for plainer or directer witnesses Do they not all ioyne together in one profession and succession of truth that the mysticall signes after consecration be knowen corporal and senselesse creatures abiding in their proper and former yea their whole nature and substance Be not these wordes significant and pregnant directly conâ—uting your reall inclosing and corporall eaâ—ing of Christ vnder the shewes and accidentes of bread and wine The third thing that I saide was to bee considered in the elementes of bread and wine is their power and operation For since the substance of the creatures is not chaunged the signes coulde not iustly beare the names of the thinges them-selues except â—â—e vertue power and â—ffect of Christs fleshe and bloode were adioyned to them and vnited with them after a secrete and vnspeakable manner by the working of the holy Ghost in such sort that whosoeuer duelie receiueth the signe is vndoubtedly partaker of the grace offered vnto all but inioyed onely by those that with fayth and repentance clense the inward man from that corruption of flesh spirit which Christ abhorreth Cyprian of Sacraments in generall writeth thus To the elements once sanctified not now their owne nature giueth effect but the diuine vertue worketh in them more mightily the trueth is present with the signe and the spirit with the Sacrament so that the worthines of the grace appeareth by the verie efficiencie of the things Of the Lordes Supper in speciall thus he saith b There is giuen the foode of immortalitie differing from commoÌ„ meates Corporalis substantiae etmens speciem retaining the kind or truth