such dross but til then remaining in pain partly for their temporal losses by death but chiefly for their spirituall want being not able to attain Bliss which they infinitly desire til by the Churches help God of his mercy rectifies them and accomplishes their purgation yet so as by Fire S. Me thinks Sir in al this you talk not of burning or gnashing of teeth or such corporeall pains which I have been taught are in Hell and Purgatory M. These things are said to be in Hell metaphorically when spoken of souls which want their bodies and signify no more than that they are tormented by fire as who is frighted or dazel'd is tormented though not burn'd But are you able to tel me why and when souls shall receive their bodies S. The time is at dooms-day The cause why they receive them is I think their love to them M. Do you not remember you told me the wicked have not their desires and the just desire nothing but according to God's will If so it seems your consequence wil not be very good But to make it so you must know naturally a man desires every thing because 't is good and good is as much as convenient to the desirer who is not onely Soul but Body too wherfore if naturall desire cannot be frustrated or disappointed by God the Authour of nature and the desires of our life remain after death it follows that the desire of good to our person is naturall and remaining after death and therefore must needs be supply'd Can you tell me how this great work is to be done S. Sir I know we shal al arise at the great day more I know not M. I le help you when that Day comes Christ shall appear in the ayr over Hierusalem as 't is thought and suddenly all parts of the earth and sea shall render their carcases and whole Mankind be restor'd to their Bodies Where on the one part the Saints shall be carry'd in the ayr to meet Christ the others shall remain below viewing their glory dreading their own misery till judgment being given those rest happy for ever with our Saviour the other are swallow'd into hell After which day all motion shall cease and there shall be no change or alteration but a state of permanency for ever S. Yes Sir but I doubt not there will be other great differences betwixt the Saints and the damned if you would please to tell me them M. Do you not remember the gifts you told me were conferr'd on Adam as to his Body those very same shal be perfected in the Saints As for health they shall have impassibility so that nothing can hurt them For their strength they shall have a power which nothing can resist call'd Impenetrability For Agility they shal have a power in the twinckling of an eye to pass beyond any determin'd distance whatsoever And lastly for Beauty they shall have power to shine and shew themselvs in what glory they please As for the Damned the heaviness of their minds shall make them not onely uncapable of all these advantages but such distemper'd deform'd and every way ill-compos'd Bodies as are most sutable to so sadly and so outragedly distemper'd mindes S. What shall the Saints do with these perfections if there be no motion M. These are not for use but powers and qualities necessarily following the state of the soul in the body of which shee is to be Mistress and to have power to use it as her self pleases And so you see what good life brings you to both in this transitory and the next eternall world Can you shew me now that the Blessed have all that even wicked men can desire S. Sir I see they have more pleasure then this world can affoord And as for honour I see Saints are more honour'd then Alexanders and Augustuses Power I know not how they have or wealth M. Wealth is not here desir'd but for necessity or magnificence the time of both which is pass'd and for power sure they want not that who have all they wish and can meet with nothing to resist their will The Catechist also here hath great occasion to press his Catechumen to good life by lively representing him the greatness of the Ioyes and Pains of the next world which are most incomparably moving if he declare them well ELEVENTH CONFERENCE M. NOw you are so learn'd as to know what it was to which Christ labour'd so much to bring mankind I pray tell me what means he us'd to plant his doctrin so that it should continue so many ages so deeply rooted in the heart of man as we see it has and beleeve it shall S. Teaching and Miracles which are the greatest Confirmations that can be M. Thus much you told me long ago but what more do you not know Si me vis stere dolendum est primum ipsi tibi I mean that if a man be not perswaded affectionately of a thing himself he cannot well perswade another Consider then how necessary it was to send the Holy Ghost that is the plenitude of it upon his Apostles after his Ascension Which according to the outward apparition fill'd their hearts with fiery zeal and their tongues with the praises of Almighty God that they might be vehemently conceited themselves of the truth and of the great good the knowledge thereof brought to the world and earnestly desirous to breed the like conceit in others and so it might descend in vertue of the first plantation by ordinary means to the end of the world But tel me who were those chiefly that receiv'd the Holy Ghost S. The Apostles were the chief and all others who came since have learn'd of them and so I see the Church is truly Apostolical M. Yes and onely shee ask any Hereticks whether they receiv'd their doctrin from the Apostles they will answer yes By whose hands they answer by the scripture But a Catholike says from his Forefathers they from theirs c. so that none lays claym to have their Church Apostolical but onely Catholicks For the question 's not whether there were al the while some of their Religion but whethese who now are were taught and receiv'd it from them by true succession For if two studying one thing in divers times finde the same the one does not receive it from the other and so 't is not true succession But where did the Apostles preach S. Through the whole world for such was Christs command nor can there be any doubt but they did what they were bid And so I see the Church is Catholik over the world M. How can that be seeing the Alcâ—ran is in as great a part of the world as Christ's Gospel Nay some Heresies have been spred in the greater part of the Christian world But because you are no very great Historian I wil read you this riddle You ought
towards Laws and Superiours Obedience towards your Equalls and Inferiours in honour Courtesy in words Affability But I beleeve you have heard that the Moral or Cardinal Virtues are four Therefore let me have your help Can you tel me what 't is to bee Discreet S. I think it is to be wise M. Well ghess'd although you miss a little for true 't is every wise man is discreet yet not every discreet man wise For if you look upon men's conversation you shall observe some have good skil in human actions yet for passion or other desires follow not their knowledg Others have their desires so as they should bee but litle skill Others have both skill and will good others both bad And these last are both fools and knaves for the most part The formost of the other three are Understanding men but not Discreet the others be discreet but not understanding The third are both that is Wise Now I hope you will not fail to tel mee what makes a discreet man S. Since a discreet man is hâ—â— who hath his affect on s right iâ— human action and the three virtues above nam'd make a man's affections such those three virtues make a man discreet M. 'T is very well say'd For if you note hee who has these three virtues will use the skill he has to the utter most And him we call discreet who according to his understanding carries things well Which virtue by Divines is called Prudence It's office is to judge a right what is to be done by him that has it according to the proportion of the man's knowledge and so you have your 4. Virtues call'd Morall or Cardinall But before I leave you must answer me one question farther which is whether you think that hee who performs his action according to these Virtues need have any scruple of the work done S. No Sir certainly for if his action be vertuous as proceeding from a minde which has these vertues it must needs be good M. And what though he has an affection to do wel yet if he has not skil can the deed be good S. I did not think of that Then indeed it must be naught M. True t is the action is not good Yet he need not make scruple of what is pass'd because hee did his endeavour But before the action bee perform'd what is he to do if hee cannot tel whether part is to be done S. Hee ought to ask some body that knows M. You say well if hee cannot or when he has ask't find no body that can tell he may do whither he lists And whither he miss or no never make scruple of it as long as hâ—â—'s sure that no â—ll affection was guide in his choice 〈◊〉 that he proceeded out of the Love of God and a good conscience In these three Conferences the motives of vertue and good life frequently occurring advertise the Catechist to make his Cathecumen reflect and move himself unto them They be plain of themselves NINTH CONFERENCE M. YOu know by what is said what Christian life is viz. the practise chieftly of the three Theologicall vertues and in consequence of the four Cardinal ones that is of all vertues But can you tell me what 't is that gives life to all the rest S. I Imagin Sir 't is Charity because you said that it gave life to Hope and that all Cardinal vertues were to be practis'd for God's sake But I reach not unto the reason unless you help me M. You know not your own strength For tell me if you should see a dog or a horse new kill'd how would you know whether it were dead or no S. By the stirring For as long as it stirs I should think some life were yet in it When I saw it stir no more then I should take it for dead M. Very well so far then is agree'd that to live is to have a power in it self to move or stir it self Now can you tel me what is the first principle of stirring in you and other men as they are men Do not you see the more in love they are with any thing the more they stir to obtain it so that you see love is that which stirs a man makes him move towards the thing belov'd Wherefore the Love of God or Charity is the thing which first moves the Christian to walk towards him that is to exercise all vertue You see likewise that what takes away from us the love of God brings us death in lieu of life as we are Christians What is that S. That is as I perceive now mortall Sin for I imagin 't is call'd Mortall or deadly because it takes away lâ—fe and life is Charity Therefore that sin is mortall which deprives our soul of the Love of God M. You are a great Divine but what is 't that takes away the Love of God or of any thing else from us S. I think 't is hate for hate is contrary to love yet methinks no body can hate God and so there would be no mortall sin if that were true M. You say wel but do you not remember that who so loves must as you told me do good for him whom he loves if he can whence it comes that the row of all other vertues follow Charity he then who will not do any of those things which necessarily follow upon Love loses his love But no man would neglect those things unless he lov'd some other thing whose love hinder'd him from performance thereof So that you see how not onely hate of God but Love of such things as hinder you to do what you ought in love to him takes away Charity Can you now tel me what Sin is mortall S. Why Sir whoever lovesany thing in such sort that it causes him not to perform to God himself and his neighbour all he owes them that is all which the four Cardinall Vertues command sins mortally for he loses Charity which is the substance of Christian life M. You say wel if you understand what you say For what think you is not stealing against Justice one of the Cardinal vertues and yet you will not say that whosoeuer steals a pin commits a mortall Sin S. No indeed Sir but truly I know not why M. Did you not say that he who commits a mortal sin loses Charity by it Charity you know is the Love of your Neighbour if then not every thing as the taking a pin is sufficient cause for your Neighbour to fall out with you you lose not his Love for taking a pin Such a breach of justice then as is a sufficient cause for ordinary wise men to break of conversation and friendship with you is a mortal sin But what is less than that is not S. This is well Sir for a mans Neighbour but towards God Almighty I think this measure will not
hold For no man that is in his wits will fall out with himself neither is God subject to falling out as men are Therefore I know not what to say concerning them M. Do you not remember that a man owes certain duties to himself whereof the neglect may come to be such as if another man should do it unto you you would fall out with him Do you not see then that if you do not fall out with your self for the like occasion 't is not for want of cause And as for God Almighty see you not that if you bore the respect to him you do to your neighbour you would be as fearful to do such an indignity towards him as you are to do it towards your neighbour Now the sin is in your soul if then you see in your soul misrespect towards God Almighty such as towards your neighbour were want of love it follows there wants Love towards Almighty God Can you tell me how many sorts of sins they be which are not mortal and how they are call'd S. They be call'd venial but how many sorts there be of them I cannot tell M. They are indeed call'd venial that is easily forgiven by a name answering to Mortal in sence but not in the word and means a slight offence and such as makes no breach of friendship Of those Divines put three sorts either because 't is of a kind that generally men slightly respect as being not worthy of much consideration or because 't is slight in it 's kind or because 't is perform'd by oversight or withour deliberation Having seen the nature of the two lives I mean of good and bad can you resolve me which of the two is the pleasanter I speak of that pleasure for which you prefer a good dinner before your ordinary fare a play day before a study day and the like S. There can be no doubt but considering that pleasure sinful life is the pleasanter For vertuous life hath it's fruit after death M. Think you so I pray tell me then which do you think has the pleasanter life hee that has greater harms or hee who has less S. Hee that has less M. Then if Fortitude bee the chusing of lesser harms before greater hee that uses that virtue has the more pleasant life even wordly Again who has the pleasanter life hee that has more or fewer pleasures greater or lesser S. Sir now I see what you mean and that 't is very true that who lives vertuously has a more pleasant life then who does not if all were alike For hee by the virtue of Temperance chuseth to abstain from a less pleasure to have a greater But Sir I hear it say'd that a viâ—tuous man cannot easily come to wealth and without riches he cannot have pleasure M. What do Riches serve for S. To have his content of mind M. Then if he has content of mind what need he care for Riches consider the difference betwixt the merry cobler and the carefull Usurer and you wil see 't is not Riches but the disposition of the mind which gives content But tel me farther is not the way to get Riches to have much trading that is in great summs and withmany men and is not Credit the greatest stroke and power of a Marchant S. Yes Sir but credit comes by opinion of wealth M. I Think you are a little mistaken look well and you will see it comes by opinion of honesty and fair dealing in poor men for who has the opinion of being Rich is already rich ordinarily speaking and so is not now to come to wealth 'T is this opinion of honesty which makes that your word will goe farther then another mans bond that because of your plain dealing every man hopes to have no quarrelling with you and the like which are the things principally give Credit especially that credit which is the way to and goes before Riches And are not all these caus'd by the virtue of Iustice 'T is virtue then not Riches which gives all needfull Credit TENTH CONFERENCE M. PEradventure I need not ask you which of these lives is fitter for the next life since one is made for the world to come the other not Nevertheless I may ask a reason why and perhaps so as may bring you to see it Tell me then shal we in the next world have the same desires we have in this S. Sir how should I know who never spake with any had been there M. When you are a cold do you desire to walk in the winde or when you are hot to go to the fire S. â— Sir but contrary M. Buâ— what time is it that if a piece of Mâ—â—chpane were offer'd you though it were presently after dinner but you would finde a hole to put it in What 's the reason of this diversity is 't not that the one you desire for a present commodity the other you think to be good of it self S. Yes Sir me thinks that 's the very reason though I never rected on it before M. Then if over night you lov'd any thing good for an occasion or fot the present disposition you are in next morning you will not care for it the occasion being pass'd But if you love a thing because you think it absolutely good next morning you will as freely desire it as you did over night S. 'T is certainly so M. Then you see that when your soul is out of your body what ever in the body it lov'd as good of it self that it will love â—â—ill But what it loved onely for some end or upon the present disposition of it's body it will not love Now what one loves in the second manner spoken of either is God or mortall sin For it is lov'd for no farther end But to go on do you think that hee who loves God in this sort shall enjoy his desire seeing after death he shall retain it S. Yes for you told me he would be miserable else and God cannot be so cruel as to let one be miserable for loving him M. And do you think it will be a great content to see God S. Yes surely for every one has content to obtain that which he desires Besides to see a good or strange thing breeds also content M. Your answer is good but me thinks there be two faults in this pleasure one is that the seeing any fine sight is not so good as eating a good dinner or playing at some pleasant game The other that the thing which is to be seen is but one and so has not variety and we perceive our selves soon weary of the same thing S. Sir I like seeing better then eating or playing for I had rather go see a strange sight or a fine play than eat a good dinner or play my self so much time but for the other I cannot tell what to answer
Confession before Communion I know no more But that I do though I never study'd the reason M. True it is and you know the reason too without studying it For tel me if you were to make a banquet whom would you invite but your own friend if amongst them some were not friends with one another you would not invite them together for fear of turning your mirth into quarrel or sorrow So therefore seeing Christ invites us in this Sacrament to a Banquet he requires both that we should be friends with him and with one another that is have charity And therefore the Ancient Christians when the Pax is giv'n in the Mass a grave Ancient and materiall ceremony and not well begun to be neglected were wont to kiss one the other in token of peace and charity and so communicate together whence not without reason this Sacrament is call'd the Sacrament of Charity Here tel mee if mans wit can invent it what greater means could God have us'd to bind Christians in love and charity one to another The greatest conjurations are wont to be made by drinking of blood The conditions requir'd in friendship are Alacrâ—ty and constancy or strength this is figur'd in Bread the other in Wine The sealing and concluding of solemn contracts is at a Feast and so has he ordained in this The Ty some Oath by what we eminently love or reverence Here is no less then the death of God and man which we take upon our souls Lastly bread and wine are most fit emblems of Unity for so our wills ought all to be the same by love and Charity as a thousand corns and grapes are undiscernable to be different and fast united together in one loaf or cup of wine S. As yet I see not why this makes Confession necessary M. Stay a while do you not see if we have offended God oâ— our neighbour the ready way to gain their love is to repent and and confess our faults By nature every noble heart seeing his enemy subject to him takes compassion and judging the party now not the same he was thinks meet to change likewise his carriage towards him See we not again that who has committed some soul fact secretly it â—oaâ—s his heart til he has broken his mind to some one or o her as shewing how natural an easment of sin Confession is so that where Charity is broken Repentance declar'd that is Confession is the most naturall soder left upon earth to cement it Therefore the Council of Trent concluded what the Apostle had commanded of every man's trying himself before Communion was to be understood of Confession It remains to know how this Trial is made S. By three things Contrition Confession and Satisfaction whereof contrition signifies true hearty sorrow for our sins Satisfaction our performing the penance impos'd by the Priest Confession is already explicated M. You say well but I must go more more particularly to work with you I think the first thing you do is to examin your conscience And I must know how you examin it and of what S. For the manner I look into the ordinary actions which I use every day then conâ—â—de what extraodinary have happen'd since my last confession and in both note what I think I have done amiss M. You have a hard task if you note al that is sin For tel mee is not all that 's against reason Sin and all you do which you ought not to do or contrary wise all you do not which you ought to do is not that sin I doubt the you note not al that 's sin but the chief heads Wherefore I would not trouble you with so much nicety but onely as far as you have a care to amend your self that is to note the main points that you may strive against them Secondly if you pretend to perfection I would wish you noted not onely the evil acts but the Motives and causes of them Thirdly examin such good acts as want either the intention or attention due to them that is which however nothing appear in them otherwise then right yet your self are guilty to your self to have done them either without the due end or without consideration of due circumstances Fourthly to understand what yourself either by nature or the state you are in are most subject to and both more examin more suspect and more confess those faults S. Thus far I know my next endeavour is to procure grief for my sins which has two parts one to be sorry for the past the the other to amend what 's to come M. So far wel but have you not heard that sorrow also has two parts Contrition and Attrition which I think I must help you to understand what they are And in a word you know that take a hard stone and grate it against a harder you shal bring it into what fashion you list yet you leave it stil hard in the middle but put it in a morter and beat it you turn it al into dust The first is call'd Attrition the second Contrition And by a metaphor deriv'd from hence if a man that has lov'd some unlawful object or action and be withdrawn from it by fear of either loss of good or inheriting evil but so that stil hee keeps some longing towards the thing such a man's attrite But if he perfectly forgo and grow into a hatred of the thing before loved then hee is contrite and by this you see how Attrition leaves a desire and stain to be burn'd and cleans'd hereafter in purgatory Contrition purifies the heart to go immediatly to heaven But whereon must wee ground all our sorrow for sin S. On the love of God who is offended with it and on the fear of hell wherewith we are threatned for it M. well said All hate is grounded on the loss of some good or the enduring some evil Each of which may be both natural and supernatural Supernatural goods lost by sin are the friendship and face of God in the next world and the sweetness which is in such excellent virtues even in this life The harm gotten is perpetuall damnation in the next and perpetual torture of consciin this to those who know and conceive what they do Natural goods lost by vice are health peace credit estate Natural harms are the inconveniences which sin drives its lovers to dayly as diseases vexations discredit poverty the usual effects of a disorder'd life How do you procure amendment S. I purpose never any more to do what I confess as firmly as I can by God's grace M. Wel. But 't is very hard for a man to purpose to avoid what he 's almost certain he shal not Therefore I take it for your surest way to purpose to do your best endeavour to escape all you confess rather than directly and positively to purpose what 's