this Argument the Discusser bestirreth himselfe to draw up sixe Answers 1. From the large extent of soule-killing which may reach to many sinnes that are not capitall 1 Cor. 8.11 2. From the dissimilitude of bodily and spirituall Death A body being killed can dye but once but a soule killed may recover 3. From the different punishment which Christ hath provided for soule-killers to wit the two edged Sword which cometh out of his mouth which is able to cut downe Heresie and to kill the soules of Hereticks everlastingly 4. From the toleration which Christ himselfe giveth to such soule-killers or soule-wounders in the Parable of Tares Matth. 13. 5. From the impossibility of killing any soule by any Heretick not the soules of naturall men for they are dead already nor can false Teachers so much prevent the meanes of spirituall Life as doth the force of a materiall Sword either imprisoning the soules of men in a Nationall-State-Religion or cutting them off immediately without any longer meanes of Repentance Nor can there be a killing of the soules of men alive in Christ partly by reason of the sufficiency and power of Spirituall Ordinances to preserve that Life in them against all Enemies Partly from the Immortality of the spirituall Life in Christ which can no more dye then Christ himselfe who is alive for ever 6. From the possbility of a false Teachers and a Wolves recovery from the Estate of a soule-killer to become a soule-saver as it was in the case of Paul For a just Reply to all these let me first premise foure things and then speake to the Arguments in Order 1. It is not every murther of the body that is a capitall crime but murder executed in some grosse Attempt For he that hateth his brother is a man-slayer or murderer 1 Joh. 3.15 and yet not for that to be put to death 2. Murder unadvisedly committed when the Act done was not intended is not a capitall crime there were Cities of Refuge provided in such a case Ezod 21.13 3. The very Attempt of murder in the abuse of an Ordinance of God is a capitall crime As in a case a man shall rise up before a Court of Justice to beare false witnesse against his Neighbour of some capitall offence this very attempt of killing his Neighbour by the abuse of publick Justice is a capitall crime Deut. 19.18 to 21. 4. The murther of the soule is not the onely Formalis Ratio as they call it the onely proper cause of an Hereticks capitall Crime but chiefly his bitter roote of Apostacie from God not onely falling off himselfe from God but seducing others to fall away from him These foure things being premised come wee now to consider of the severall Answers given by the Discusser to Augustines Argument His first Answer reacheth not the point for as every killing of the body is not a capitall crime so neither is every killing of the soule but such as is more voluntary and presumptuous and joyned with some grosse and murderous attempt His second Answer falleth short in this respect that though a soule wounded and killed may recover againe yet the very murderous Attempt of killing a soule in abusing an Ordinance of God in corrupting Religion is a capitall crime whether the soule dye of that wound or no or if it dye whether it be recovered or no. Thine eye shall not spare him because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God Deut 13.10 Though hee did not thrust thee away yet because he sought to doe it hee shall dye His third Answer hath been removed above Church-censures are sufficient to heale the Heretick if he belong to God and to remove the guilt of his wickednesse from the Church but not sufficient to prevent his further spreading of the Leaven of his corruption nor sufficient to cleanse the Common-wealth from the guilt of such Rebellion as hath been taught by him against the Lord. His fourth Answer taken from Christs toleration of the Tares hath be en largely and as I conceive fully refelled above His fifth Answer hath also been cleared already If the Answer were good it would evacuate not onely Augustines Argument but Pauls also 1 Cor 8.11 Paul disswadeth from eating things sacrificed to Idols in Idols Temples The Argument to disswade it is from the offence thereby given to the Conscience of the weake and that backed and strengthned from the haynousnesse of the sinne of offence to Conscience It is the murder or perishing of a weake Brothers soule Now if this Answer of the Discusser might stand it would make the Argument of the Apostle of none effect For either this weake Brother is a naturall man dead in sinne already and then no man can kill him or else he is in Christ and then his Life is immortall and Christ hath provided Ordinances powerfully sufficient to prevent or heale such deadly Dangers It is an high presumptuous tempting of God and wanton treading under foote the precious soules of men for whom Christ dyed to wound and as much as in us lyeth to kill the soules of men upon pretence the Lord can save them and raise them againe by his all-sufficient Grace It is a putting of feare where none is that the punishment of obstinate seducing Hereticks with the materiall Sword is the imprisoning of the soules of men to a Nationall Religion for if the Religion of the Nation be good it is no Imprisonment if naught there should be no punishment And it is a like causlesse Feare that the cutting off of Hereticks will cut off men immediately without any longer meanes of Repentance for if they belong to God God will give them Repentance before they goe hence but whether they belong to God or no the revealed will of God is fulfilled in their just Execution The last Answer falleth as short of strength as any of the former For if men be such Wolves and Blasphemers as Paul was before his Conversion neither the Law of God or man would put such an one to Death who sinned of ignorance and walked as himselfe professeth with all good Conscience even in his former evill times Acts 23.1 But as for such as Apostate from the known Truth of Religion and seeke to subvert the Foundation of it and to draw away others from it to plead for their Toleration in hope of their Conversion is as much as to proclaime a generall pardon for all malefactors save such onely as sinne against the Holy Ghost for he that is a wilfull murderer and Adulterer now may come to be converted and dye a martyr hereafter CHAP. 73. A Reply to his Chap. 76. discussing the Testimony of Optatus Discusser THe Answerer alledgeth from Optatus his third Booke that he justified Macarius who had put some Hereticks to death for that he had done no more herein then what Moses Phincas and Elias had done before him But these are shafts usually drawen from the Quiver of the
which Abraham the Father of the faithfull and God the Judge of all the Earth thought equall Gen. 18.25 that the Righteous should not be as the wicked nor that Truth and Fidelity should suffer as Heresie and Apostacy Discusser Yea but it is not confidence of being in the Truth which they judge the Papists and others are not in no nor the Truth it selfe that can priviledge them to persecute others and to exempt themselves from persecution for three Considerations First because it is against the nature of true sheep to persecute or hunt the Beasts of the Forrest no not the Wolves who have persecuted themselves Defender It is a feeble kind of reasoning from a similitude in some things to presse a resemblance in every thing Sheep doe fitly resemble Christians in many proprieties but he that shall therefore presse them to be like in all shall not suffer a Magistrate if he be a sheep of Christ to punish Robbers Adulterers Murderers why for it is against the Nature of true sheep to persecute any Beasts of the Forrest Besides I demand whether Paul was a sheep or a Wolfe when he smote Elymas with blindnesse If he were a Wolfe how is he then said to be filled with the Holy Ghost Acts 13.9 If he were a sheep why did he strike such a Beast of the Forrest ver 10 11. Furthermore when the Wolfe runneth ravenously upon the sheep is it against the nature of the true sheep to run to their Shepheard And is it then against the Nature of the true Shepheard to send forth his Dogs to worry such a Wolfe without incurring the reproach of a persecutor Discusser Secondly if it be a Duty and charge upon all Magistrates in all parts of the world to judge and persecute in and for spirituall Causes then either they are no Magistrates who are not able to judge in such cases or else they must judge according to their Consciences whether Pagan Turkish or Antichristian Defender This hath been againe and againe Answered above though it be the Duty of all Magistrates in the world to judge and punish Blasphemers Idolaters and Seducers yet not in sensu composite whilst they are ignorant of the Truth and cannot judge of such causes but in sensu diviso they are bound to be wise and instructed in the knowledge and worship of Christ Psal 2.10.11 12. and then to judge accordingly But in the meane time it doth not follow that they are no Magistrates who are not able to doe all the Duties of a Magistrate Neither will it follow that they must judge according to their Consciences when their Consciences are blind and erroneous Pagan Turkish Antichristian Let them first cast Beames out of their owne eyes and then they will better discerne between Beame and motes in other men Discusser Thirdly the Experience of our Fathers errours and of our owne mistakes and ignorance the sense of our owne weaknesses and blindnesse in the depths of the Prophecies and mysteries of the Kingdome of Christ and the great professed Expectation of the Light to come which wee are not now able to comprehend may abate the edge and sheath up the Sword of Persecution against any especially such as differ not from them in Doctrines of Repentance or Faith or Holynesse of heart and life but onely in the way and manner of the Administration of Jesus Christ Defender I say as Augustine sometime said in another case Nunquid negandum quod certum est quia comprehendi non potest quod occultum est There are depths of sundry Prophecies which we yet comprehend not but shall we therefore be alwayes babes and ignorant of the Fundamentall Principles of Christian Religion yea and suffer them to be shaken and ruined because there are some Prophesies and Mysteries which wee yet understand not shall the expectation of greater Light so dazle our eyes before wee see it that we cannot be able to see what wee doe see It is not Light but darknesse that cloudeth the Light already revealed Nor is it darknesse onely but blacknesse of darknesse that putteth Light for darknesse and darknesse for Light and would have both tolerated to live together in the same Hemispheare because some blinde Christians cannot yet tell which is whether It is true the Experience of former Errours and sense of present weaknesses may justly abate the edge and sheath up the Sword of persecution against any that differ onely in errours of weakenesse and differ not in Doctrines of Faith Repentance and Holinesse of heart and life Yea wee willingly grant more then the Discusser requireth in such a case For though there should bee some Difference in Doctrines of faith or Repentance or Holinesse Yet wee should not approve the unsheathing of the Sword against such unlesse the Doctrine were fundamentally subversive to faith or Repentance or Holinesse and that obstinately maintained against light and conviction and broached and dispersed to the Infection and Seduction of others If the Difference be only in the way and manner of Administration of Christ Iesus and that Difference held forth in a Christian and Peaceable way God forbid a staffe should be shaken against such much lesse a Sword unsheathed CHAP. 72. A Reply to his Chap. 75th Discussing a Testimony of Augustine Discusser TO begin with Augustine They murther saith Hee Soules and themselves are afflicted in Body They put men to everlasting Death and yet they complaine when themselves are put to a temporall Death This Rhetoricall perswasion of humane wisdome seemeth very reasonable in the Eye of flesh and bloud but one Scripture more prevaileth with faithfull and obedient soules then thousands of plausible and Eloquent speeches Defender Neither this Testimony nor the rest of those Ancients that follow were alledged to prevaile with the Faith of any further then Light of Scripture might shine forth in them but onely to counterpoyse the Testimonies of the Ancients alledged in the Letter against the Truth And the Discusser in his entrance into this chapter is forced to acknowledge that the cause wee maintaine hath more number of Votes and I may adde weight of Voters then the contrary Tenent onely he putteth it off with this evasion that Antichrist is too hard for Christ at Votes and Numbers Which yet is the more to be marvelled at that when the cause is about the Toleration of Hereticks and Antichristians that Antichrist should procure more Votes against Antichristians and Christ to procure any Votes though fewer for them And it is but another evasion whereby he here putteth off Augustines speech as if it were but a Rhetoricall evasion Whereas indeed the weight of the speech lyeth not in the Rhetorick which is little or none but in the Logick in an Argument taken from the Excellency of the soule above the body and thence inferring the equity of killing the bodies of such as kill the soules of Gods people and the iniquity of such as think this unequall But to weaken the force of
of the City State and Jurisdiction Discusser 3. From this Toleration of persons holding but lesser errors I observe the unmercifulnesse of such Doctrines and Hearts that he that is sleightly and but a little hurt shall be suffered meanes vouchsafed for his cure but the deep-wounded sinner the Leprous and Vlcerous c. must not be suffered untill peradventure God may give them Repentance c. Defender And why doth he not aswell observe the unmercifulnesse of such States and Lawes as suffer petty theives and liars to live in their Townes Cities but will not suffer willful murtherers violent robbers to live amongst them such as are tainted with lesser Errors and it may be whet them upon others they are but as petty theives and lyars but such as after conviction doe goe on to subvert the Foundation of Christian Religion and to subvert and destroy the soules of Gods People and stoutly robb them both of the meanes of Grace here and of the inheritance of glory hereafter they are worse then willfull murderers or violent robbers The Holy Ghost speaketh of false Teachers as bringing in damnable Heresies 2 Pet. 2.1 as overthrowing the faith of some 2 Tim. 2.18 as subverting their soules Acts 15.24 making merchandize of Gods People 2 Pet. 2.3 which being so me thinkes such as do more mischiefe are lesse tolerable then they that doe lesse It is true they that are more deeply wounded-sinners are more to be pittied suppose the depth of their wounds reach none but themselves but if they be infectious and Leprous and have Plague sores running upon them and thinke it their glory to infect others It is no want of mercy and charity to set such at a distance It is a mercilesse mercy to pitty such as are incureably contagious and mischeivous and not to pitty many scores or hundreds of the soules of such as will be infected and destroyed by the toleration of the other CHAP. 17. A Reply to his seventeenth Chapter touching the holding forth of Error with a boisterous and arrogant Spirit Discusser It is said by the Answerer He that holdeth forth Error with a boisterous and arrogant spirit to the disturbance of the Civill Peace he ought to be punished To this I have spoken too confessing that if any man commit ought of those things which Paul was accused of Acts 25.11 He ought not to be spared yea he ought not in such cases to refuse to die Defender I would not say That every man that holdeth forth Error in a a boisterous and arrogant spirit to the disturbance of Civill Peace ought to be punished with death This is too Bloudy a Tenet unlesse the boisterous Arrogancy were such as did disturbe the Civill Peace to the destruction of the lives and soules of men Discusser But if the matter be of a Spirituall and Divine nature I have written before in many cases and might in many more that the worship which a State professeth may be contradicted and preached against and yet no breach of Civill Peace c. Defender There is no Error that can be a matter of divine nature though it may be spirituall no such Points as are of a divine nature fall within the compasse of this dispute of persecution The many cases which the Discusser before wrote of are all of them allowed but none of them concerne holding forth of Errors which is the Point in hand Yet true it is that if a man hold forth Truth in some boisterous and arrogant way not with the Armour of the Spirit but with the Arme of flesh He may in so doing disturbe the Civill Peace and for such disturbance be justly punished according to the quality of the disturbance raised by him It is easily graunted what the Discusser further avoucheth that they doe break the Cities or Kingdomes Peace who cry out for Prisons and Swords against such who crosse their Judgements or Practise in Religion to wit unlesse their Religion be of God and the crossing of it be such as destroyeth and subverteth the Religion of God But when he saith such onely breake the Cities or Kingdomes Peace as call for Prisons and Swords against Hereticks It is too vast an Hyperbole as if Murderers Seditious Persons Rebells Traytors were none of them such as did breake the Cities or Kingdomes Peace at all but they onely who are too sharpe against corruptions in Religion It is also further easiely graunted which he alledgeth that many complaine most who are most in fault themselves as Josephs Mistresse of him The Lord helpe the Discusser to reflect upon his own way CHAP. 18. A Reply to his Eighteenth Chapter Examining the first Argument for Toleration from Mat. 13.30 38. Discusser First Mat. 13.30 38. Christ Commaundeth to let alone the Tares to grow up together with the wheat untill the Harvest Vnto which he Answereth That Tares are not Bryars and Thornes but partly Hypocrites like unto the Godly but indeed carnall as the Tares are like to the wheat but are not wheat or partly such corrupt Doctrines and Practises as are indeed unsound but yet such as come very neere the Truth as Tares doe to the wheat and so neere that good men may be taken with them and so the Persons in whom they grow cannot be rooted out but good wheat will be rooted out with them In such a case Christ calleth for Peaceable Toleration not for poenall Prosecution according to the third Conclusion But alas here is no evidence or demonstration of the Spirit nor argument from the place it selfe or from the Scriptures of Truth to prove such an Interpretation Defender Ans The Letter to which the Answer was given gave no reason of his exposition and who ever required more reason of an Answerer then of a Replyer 2. The Exposition I gave was consistent with that which the Letter gave Tares and wheat saith he some understand to be those that walke in the Truth and those that walke in lyes now when I say the tares are Hypocrites and some kind of corrupt Doctrines and Practises and such as walke in them are not these coincident with such as walke in lyes what need had I to give a reason of the exposition which he himselfe to whom the Answer was written acknowledgeth Discusser But those three Persons Doctrines and Practises are as a threefold cord and so a threefold strong snare to catch the feet of some or other Defender What hurt doe they get by being caught Hypocrites and corrupt Doctrines and Practises if they be found like unto good Christians or sound truthes what hurt doe they catch when I say such are to be tolerated to the end of the world But to prevent his feare of a threefold cord I shall easily acknowledge that which I meant that by Tares are meant such kinde of evill persons as are like unto the good whether they be Hipocrites men of unsound heartes or men of unsound Doctrines and Practises yet such as come neere the
Jesus onely Defender Reply 1. But he that corrupteth a soule with a corrupt religion or worship layeth a spreading leaven which corrupteth the State The Idolatry began in the House of Micah corrupted Laish Judges chap. 17. and chap. 18. And that was the beginning of sinne to the Daughter of Zion Micah 1.13 And that Apostacy was the captivity of the Land As in the New-Testament the worship of Images was the advancement of the Turkes and the ruine of Christian States Rev. 9.14 to 21. When therefore the corruption or destruction of soules is a destruction also of lives liberties estates of men lex talionis calleth for not onely soule for soule but life for life Reply 2. False Prophets in the Old-Testament did but corrupt the soules of some and it may be did not corrupt them neither but attempted it onely And yet amongst Gods people where lex talionis was much attended the Law was Thine eye shall not spare him Deut. 13. The reason of which execution is not fetched from any typicall holinesse of the Land but from the dangerous wickednesse of the attempt to thrust away a soule from God which is a greater injury then to deprive a man of bodily life Discusser But dead men cannot die nor be infected Naturall men the civill State the world are dead in sinne c. Defender Reply 1. Dead men may be made worse by corrupt Teachers two-fold more the children of hell then before Matth. 23.15 And therefore such as so corrupt them are worthy in a way of due proceeding of a two-fold death Reply 2. Such as professe the truth of the Doctrine and Worship of Christ they live a kind of spirituall life though not such as accompanieth salvation Else how are false Teachers and such as are led by them said to be twice dead plucked up by the roots Jude ver 12. And therefore it is not true that such as being in a naturall state are dead in sinne annot be infected nor die againe Discusser As in the common infection of the plague so in the infection of heresie none can be strucke deadly but whom God hath thereunto ordained c. Defender Reply 1. No more can any man be murthered but whom God hath ordained thereunto But it is a prophane sacriledge to excuse or alleviate the punishment of sinne by Gods eternall predestination Was the sinne of Herod or the Jewes or of Pontius Pilate any whit the lesse because they did nothing against Christ but what the hand of God and his Counsell had fore-determined to be done Acts 4.29 Sure it is Christ aggravateth the sinne of Judas and of the High-Priests and Elders of the Jewes by this Argument that Pilate could doe nothing against him but as it was given him from above Therefore saith he he that delivered me to thee hath the greater sinne John 19.11 Reply 2. The Discusser himselfe acknowledgeth That though in a common plague or infection none are smitten or die but such as are ordained thereunto yet it is not onely every mans duty but the common duty of the Magistrates to prevent infection and to preserve the common health of the place by removing infectious persons into solitary tabernacles Discusser True but the meanes God hath appointed for preservation from spirituall infection and perdition are spirituall such as God directeth to Rev. 2. Tit. 3.10 11. Rom. 16.17 But the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for either Antidote or Remedy as an addition to those Spirituals The Remedy which God preseribed to the Angell of the Church of Pergamus It were a Babylonish confusion to interpret it as sent to the Governour of the City of Pergamus Defender Subordinata and so Coordinata non pugnant It is true Christ hath appointed spirituall meanes for the avoiding and preventing the infection of heresies so hath he also for the preventing and avoiding all offences in Church-members But that hindreth not the lawfull and necessary use of a civill sword for the punishment of some such offences as are subject to Church-censure If indeed the Ordinances of Christ in the Church doe prevaile to the avoiding and healing of heresies there is no need of the civill sword for that end But it often falleth out otherwise as 1. That when the Church hath cast out an Heretick yet he still remaineth obstinate and proceedeth to seduce and destroy the faith of some it may be of many as did Hymeneus and Philetus 2 Tim. 2.17 18. If the Magistrates sword doe here rust in the scabberd such leaven may leaven the whole Masse of a City or Countrey As by this meanes Arrianisme leavened the world by the indulgence of Constantius Ingemuit Orbis Christianus miratus est factum se esse Arrianum 2. It may be the Heretick was never any member of the Church and then though the Church may lay in some Antidotes and Purges to preserve or recover their Members yet how shall they succour such as are not subject to their censures Or how shall they prevent the spreading of this noisome leprofie in private Conventicles But the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for an Antidote or Remedy in such a case Answ It is evident the civill sword was appointed for a remedy in this case Deut. 13. And appointed it was by that Angell of Gods presence whom God promised to send with his people as being unwilling to goe along with them himselfe Exod. 33.2 3. And that Angell was Christ whom they tempted in the wildernesse 1 Cor. 10.9 And therefore it cannot truely be said that the Lord Jesus never appointed the civill sword for a remedy in such a case For he did expressely appoint it in the Old-Testament nor did he ever abrogate it in the New The reason of the Law which is the life of the Law is of eternall force and equity in all Ages Thou shult surely kill him because be hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God Deut. 13.9 10. This reason is of morall that is of universall and perpetuall equity to put to death any Apostate seducing Idolater or Heretick who seeketh to thrust away the soules of Gods people from the Lord their God If Magistrates be the Ministers of God in the New-Testament as Paul calleth them Rom. 13.4 And Ministers of God to execute vengeance on him that doeth evill surely either this is no evill to seeke to thrust away Gods people from him or the Magistrate beareth not the sword in vaine to execute vengeance on such an evill doer Yea but such an evill is evill onely to the inner man not to the civill State Answ But if a man imagine evill against the Lord it is a destructive evill to a whole City yea to a Pagan City and God will visit such an evill with such an affliction as shall be no lesse then utter destruction to such a City It shall not rise up the second time Nahum 1.9.11 Discusser But the eivill Magistrate hath his charge of the bodies
and goods of the Subject as the Spirituall-Officers of Christs City or Kingdome have the charge of their soules and soule-safety Defender Reply 1. If it were true That the Magistrate hath charge onely of the bodies and goods of the Subject yet that might iustly excite to watchfulnesse against such pollutions of Religion as tend to Apostacy For if the Church and People of God fall away from God God will visit the City and Countrey with publicke calamity if not captivity for the Churches sake The Idolatry and Image-worship of Christians brought in the Turkish captivity upon the Cities and Countryes of Asia and upon some of Europe also as hath been shewed above Reply 2. It is a carnall and worldly and indeed an ungodly imagination to confine the Magistrates charge to the bodies and goods of the Subiect and to exclude them from the care of their soules Did ever God commit the charge of the body to any Governours to whom he did not commit in his way the care of soules also Hath God committed to Parents the charge of their childrens bodies and not the care of their soules To Masters the charge of their servants bodies and not of their soules to Captaine 's the charge of their souldiers bodies and not of their soules shall the Captaines suffer false worship yea idolatry publickly professed and practised in the campe and yet looke to prosper in the Battell The Magistrates to whom God hath committed the charge of bodies and outward man of the Subiect are they not also to take care to procure faithfull Teachers to be sent amongst them Jehosaphat tooke faithfull care for the soules of his people in this kind 2 Chron. 17.7 8 9. Neither did he this as a Type of Christ but as a Servant of Christ Those things are said to be done as Types of Christ which being ceremoniall duties were afterwards done by Christ in his owne Person and so were in him accomplished and abolished And it would be sacriledge to performe the same after him But let the conscience of any sincere Christian iudge whether it would be sacriledge in a godly Magistrate to procure the sending forth of godly Preachers into all the blind corners of his countrey The truth is Church-Governous and civill-governours doe herein stand paralell one to another The Chuch-Governours though to them be chiefely committed the charge of soules as their adaequate obiects yet in order to the good of the soules of their people to dehort from idlenesse negligence from intemperancy in meates and drinkes from oppression and deceit and therein provide both for the health of their bodies and the safety of their estates So civill-governours though to them be chiefely committed the bodies and goods of the people as their adaequate obiect yet in order to this they may and ought to procure spirituall helpes to their soules and to prevent such spirituall evills as that the prosperity of Religion amongst them might advance the prosperity of the civill State Reply 3. I cannot but with griefe observe the sinfull guile of the Discusser who whilest he taketh off all charges of soules from the civill Magistrates and layeth it upon Church-Governours he taketh it off from Church-Governours too that so the whole charge of precious soules for whom Christ dyed might utterly fall to the ground For how shall Church-Governours take the charge of soules upon them if there be no Church-Governours And how shall there be Church-Governours where there be no Churches If Churches be all dissipated and rooted out from the face of the Earth by the Apostacy of Antichrist and none to be gathered againe till new Apostles or Evangelists be sent abroad for such a worke then there be now neither Churches nor Church-Governours nor Church-censures either to censure Hereticks or to fetch in those stray soules whom they have scatter'd And then rejoyce yee Hereticks and all yee Idolaters and Seducers and goe on and make havock of the sheep of Christ like ravenous Wolves you may now doe it impunè without feare or danger It is neither for Civill Governours nor Church-Governours to meddle with you Not for Civill Governours for they are not to judge nor punish in matters of Religion Nor for Church-Governours for there are neither Churches nor Church-Governours extant now upon the face of the Earth But woe be to you poore sheepe and Lambes of Christ Jesus you are now indeed truly become the sheep of the slaughter your Possessours may slay you and plead themselves not guilty Zach. 11.4 5. not guilty before the Civill Barre for their crime is exempted from civill cognizance not guilty before the Churches Tribunall for there be no Churches to call them to account CHAP. 35. A Reply to his 35. Chap. Discusser IF it were the Magistrates duty or office to punish Hereticks then is he both a Temporall and Ecclesiasticall Officer Defender It followeth not unlesse the Magistrate were to punish them with Ecclesiasticall censures which he neither doth nor may doe The punishments which he inflicteth on them are meerely Civill whether imprisonment banishment or death Discusser That Doctrine and distinction that a Magistrate may punish an Heretick civilly will not here avayle For what is Babell if this be not confusedly to punish Corporall or Civill offences with spirituall or Church-censures the offender not being a member of it or to punish soule or spirituall offences with Corporall or Temporall weapons proper to Delinquents against the Civill State Defender It is no Babell or Babilonish confusion to punish corporall or civill offences with Spirituall or Church-censures What if a Brother be a striker an oppressour a murderer a fornicator or Adulterer all these are corporall and civill offences But shall not therefore the Church punish these with spirituall and Church-censures Then the Apostle was mistaken who directeth so to doe 1 Cor 5.11 why the Discusser putteth in that parenthesis the offender not being a member of it I cannot tell sure I am it is nothing to the purpose For as the Church cannot punish any offendor unlesse he be a member of the Church so neither may the Civill Magistrate punish an Heretick or other spirituall offendor unlesse he be a member of his Common-wealth And if it be no confusion to punish civill offences with Church-censures it is no confusion to punish spirituall offences with civill censures And the reason of both these is the same there be sundry civill offences which are also transgressions of the Rule of the word and so offences to the Consciences of the Church and so justly subject to Church-censure There be also offences to the Order and peace of the Church which tend likewise to provoke wrath against a Civill State As the King of Persia said Whatsoever is commanded by the God of Heaven for the House of God let it bediligently done for why should there bewrath against the King and his Sonnes Ezra 7.3 If offences to the Church doe provoke wrath against the Civill State it is no
confusion in the Civill State to punish such Discusser Woe were it with the Civill Magistrate if together with the common care and charge of the Common-wealth the bloud of every soule that perisheth should cry against him unlesse he should say with Paul Acts 20. I am cleare from the bloud of all men c. Defender It is not the bloud of every soule that perisheth that can cry against a Magistrate unlesse the soule perish by some such neglect of duty in the Magistrate which God requireth of him for the good of the soules of his people Of which Duties there be two sorts 1. To seeke out and procure meanes of Grace for them so farre as they are capable in Gods way 2. To remove meanes of their corruption and pollution such as Idolls openly erected and Idolatrous false Teachers perverting the people If in both these the Magistrate be faithfull though thousands of soules may perish under his Government yet he is innocent from the bloud of them all and may so professe with Paul Discusser I acknowledge the Magistrate ought to cherish as a Foster Father the Lord Jesus in his Truth in his Saints to cleave unto them himselfe to countenance them unto the Death yea also to breake the Teeth of the Lyons who offer civill violence and injurie unto them But to see all his Subjects Christians to keep such a Church or Christians in the purity of worship and see them doe their duty this belongeth to the head of the body the Lord Jesus and such spirituall Officers as he hath to this purpose deputed Reply 1. What is said of Spirituall Officers deputed by Christ to see the Church to doe her Duty is but a pretence when he acknowledgeth no Church nor spirituall Officers in the Church deputed by Christ extant upon the face of the Earth Reply 2. What Reason can the Discusser give why the Magistrate should breake the teeth of the Lyons who offer civill violence to the Church and Saints and not breake the teeth of the ravenous wolves false Prophets who offer violence to their soules Doubtlesse those ravenous wolves that make havock of their soules are farre more mischievous then the Lyons be that offer violence to their bodies The Romane pagan Emperours who like Lions persecuted the Church 2 Tim. 4.17 they by persecution increased it though against their wills But the Romane Popish Bishops that like ravenous wolves devoured their soules left the Church of Christ scarce visible though visible and them a very small remnant though a remnant It may be matter of just wonderment why Antichrist should find more favours in the Discussers eyes then an ignorant Pagan when the one hateth Christ more bitterly and maketh farre more waste of the Church and Saints of Christ then doth the other Is it because his owne Spirit doth more symbolize with Antichrist then with Caesar Rather in secret supplanting then in open persecuting the Churches and Ordinances of Christ Beply 3. We doe not say that it is a part of the Magistrates duty to see all his Subjects to become Christians if they were Pagans before though wee say it is his Duty to neglect no good meanes to help them onward to the knowledge and faith of Christ Jesus But why doth the Discusser shake this duty out of the Magistrates to see that the Church and the Christians under his Government should walke in purity of worship at least not so farre to degenerate and apostate as to provoke Christ to depart from them Can he hope that such Christians will be faithfull and loyall to their Prince whom he seeth to grow false and disloyall to their God Surely the Land of Ismael though it had some peculiar and and typicall Holinesse belonging to it yet no other then what did prefigure the Holinesse of the Church which is as holy to Christ and ought to be as holy to us as the Land of Israel was to them If therefore it was the duty of Jehosaphat Hezekiah and Isaiah to reduce the people of Israel from their backslidings because they were an holy people 2 Chron. 19.4 Surely the like Duty lyeth upon all Godly Christian Princes to reduce their backsliding Churches to their Primitive Purity Let no man say that as the Holy Land of Israel was a Type of Holy Church So these Princes were Types of the Lord Jesus to whom alone it belongeth to see Churches and Christians to doe their duty in Purity of worship For though David and Solomon were Types of Christ and so the Scripture holdeth them forth yet the Scripture giveth no hint that the other Kings either of Israel or Judah were Types Not of Israel for they were all Apostates nor of Judah for if the Kings of Judah as Kings of Judah to wit in respect of their Regall Estate over the Church if they were all of them Types of Christ then Apostates from Christ were Types of Christ For many of the Kings of Judah were Apostates from Christ as well as the Kings of Israel Yea if they were all Types of Christ then Christ is the Antitype and by accomplishing such types hath abolished them all so that now it were sacrilegious and Antichristian usurpation for any Kings to be set over Christians or the people of God For the Body being come Types and shadowes vanish But what if they were all types of Christ in respect of their Kingly office over the Church alone were they therefore types of Christ in all the Kingly Offices which they performed Then it was typicall in Solomon to put Joab a Murderer to death and Adonijab a Traytor And then it will be unlawfull for Christian Princes to put Murderers or Traitors to death Or if you say these were civill crimes But Idolatry and Heresie which Asa Joash and Josiah punished with death were spirituall crimes and therefore the Kings of Judah in punishing these latter were types of Christ not so in the former this is spoken gratis For whatsoever the Kings of Judah did as types of Christ Christ being the Antitype might more full and lively performe it in his owne person But certaine it is he put no man to death in his owne person all the dayes of his flesh Why therefore may it not rather be said that whatsoever the Kings of Judah lawfully did whether against the Transgressours of the first or second Table they did it not as types of Christ but as servants of Christ betrusted with the care of the welfare both of Church and Common-wealth and therefore as patternes and examples to Christian Magistrates And indeed many of the Kings of Israel as they were Kings over a Common-wealth which was also a Church so they were Kings also over sundry Pagan Nations round about them as were David and Solomon Asa and Jehosaphat Joash and Josiah And though none of them compelled the Pagan Nations to become Proselites to the Church of Israel no more then Christian Kings may compell Pagans to become Christians or men without
against the poore sheepe and Lambs of Christ If any be hardned by the just and faithfull severity of Magistrates in this case it is meerely accidentall from the extreme perversnesse of the deceitfull and corrupt heart of man not from any corruption found in such dealings of Magistrates Yea Experience speaketh the contrary not onely in the instance of the Donatists who were many of them reclaimed by the just severity of the civill Magistrate in Augustines time But also in our owne memory Let the Discusser speake his conscience whether Popery or Papists did more swarme and abound in Queen Elizabeths dayes then in the dayes of King James Discusser Antonius Pius the Emperour of Rome upon this occasion wrote to all the Governours of his Provinces to forbeare the Persecution of Christians because such dealing was so farre from converting Christians from their way that it rather begat in their mindes an opinion of their Cruelty Defender No marvell for first the Pagan Religion was not of God but palpable and grosse Idolatry But the Religion of Christians came downe from Heaven in the Gospel of Truth It is cruelty in a Magistrate and it will beget in the minds of indifferent men an opinion of his cruelty to murther Innocents and that indictâ cauâ—â when it will never be found guilty nor beget in equall minds an opinion of the cruelty of such as shall put to Death Murderers and obstinate destroyers of the life of Soules Secondly It is evident the persecuting Emperours and their Governours of Provinces under them attended not at all to the conviction of Christians nor did they indeavour to make it appeare that the Christians sinned against the Light of their owne consciences And therefore we marvell if it bred in the people a just opinion of the cruelty of Persecutors and of the Innocency of Christians 3. It is an untrue Intimation of the Discusser that Antonius forebad the persecution of Christians upon any such grounds as if he affected rather their conversion which harsh dealing might alienate them from or as if by reason of hard dealing with them it bred in the Christians an opinion of the cruelty of their Persecutors which he was desirous to avoyd Read both the Rescripts of Antonius Pius both to the men of Asia and to the Senate of Rome and he giveth other just Reasons of forbidding the persecution of them as in respect of their confidence on God in times of danger above Pagans and in respect of his Fathers favourable grant to them and cheifly in that by their Prayers they had saved his Army in great distresse in Germany and destroyed their Enemies But he was so farre from seeking their conversion to his Paganisme by lenity towards them that he straitly chargeth his Officers 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not to draw any such to Repentance and bondage Both his Rescripts are extant in the end of Justin Martyrs second Apologie for Christians CHAP. 41. A Reply to his Chap. 41. Discussing the Texts Isay 2.4 with Mica 4.3 Discusser THe next Scripture against Persecution is that of the Prophet Isaiah 2.4 together with Micah 4.3 They shall breake their Swords into Plowshares and their Speares into pruning hookes And Isa 11.9 There shall none hurt or destroy in all the Mountaine of my Holinesse Vnto which Mr. Cotton answereth 1. That these Predictions doe onely shew with what weapons Christ will subdue the Nations to the Faith of the Gospel 2. They shew also what the meeke and peaceable temper will be of all true Converts to Christianity not Lions nor Leopards nor cruell Oppressours nor Malignant opposers and biters one of another but doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold nor to restraine them from devouring the sheep of Christ This first Answer is truely Christian but me thinks the Answerer might heare a voyce from Heaven out of thine owne mouth will I judge thee for that which he addeth is as evill and bitter as the former words were good and sweet But this doth not forbid them to drive ravenous wolves from the sheepfold and to restraine them from devouring the sheep of Christ But this fighteth against the former Truth to wit that Christ by spirituall weapons will subdue the Nations of the Earth to the obedience of the Gospel For by driving away these Wolves he intendeth not onely the Resistance or violence which the Shepheards of Christ ought spiritually to make but the civill Resistance of the materiall Swords staves Guns c. whence I argue that same power forceth the evill the Wolves out forceth the good the sheep in for of the same things is the like and same Reason c. Defender He should say for of contrary things is a contrary Reason for sheep and wolves are not the same things nor are force in and force out the same things But howsoever his Argument is of the like force as if he should reason a man may witha staffe or a Sword drive away dogs that might by the way bite or worrey his children in going to Schoole therefore a man may with astaffe or a Sword drive his children to goe to schoole for there is the same Reason of both But doth he speak in good earnest that there is the same Reason of both Are Wolves to be driven away and sheep brought into the fold by the same Instruments Yes saith he the same arme that with a staffe beateth off the Wolfe with a rod and hooke bringeth in the sheep the same Dogg that assaulteth and teareth a Wolfe frighteth and forceth in the stragling sheep But the Dog that is taught to assault and teare the Wolfe if he assault and teare the sheep also will finde a halter for his labour And though the same Arme may with a staffe beate a Wolfe yet it will not with the same staffe beat a sheep The same Shepheards staffe that knocketh downe a Wolfe on the head hooketh in the sheep gently by the legg The same voyce from Heaven that calleth the sheep by Name into the sheep-fold and leadeth them by still waters the same voyce hath said that Antichristian Wolves and Seducers shall drink of bloud for they are worthy Revel 16.6 CHAP. 42. A Reply to his Chap. 42. Defender IN this Chapter the Discusser maketh himselfe worke to discourse upon the Wolves which Paul foretold to the Elders of Ephesus should come in amongst them not sparing the flock Acts 20.29 A place which I quoted not nor did apply to the cause in hand But he as a full vessell abounding and running over in wit and words and it seemeth in leasure he propoundeth and discusseth three Questions about these Wolves in this Chapter and two more in the next Discusser As 1. What Wolves were those Paul warneth of not literally meant nor Persecutors of the Flock such as the Romane Emperours But such as brought in other Religions and Worships such as amongst themselves should speake perverse things as many Antichrists did And I
for this cause because we doe not separate these English hearers from us he separated himselfe and withdre others from hearing the word in our Churches with us which I accounted as great and as unsufferable an injury to the soules of Gods people as it would be to their bodies to withhold the Corne from them or them from the Corne and for that end I produced this Scripture That I produced this Scripture alone to justifie the Sentence of the Court it was not for want of others if that had been the Question but because the scope of my Letter was not to confirme the equitie of his Banishment but to convince the iniquitie of his Separation The mention of the cause of his civill Banishment fell in onely upon the by to remove an objection out of the way that because I denied the act of the Court to be done by my counsell or consent therefore it might seeme I disallowed the sentence To prevent that mistake I acknowledged the righteousnesse of the Sentence and for that end produced that Scripture as that which might give both some just reason before God of his Civill Banishment and also make way for the discovery of his sinne of groundlesse Separation Let no man be so farre mistaken as to thinke that his Separation from the Churches was either the chiefe difference between the Court and him though it was the chiefe between him and me in my Letter or that it was the chiefest offence for which he suffered though he so pretended What though neither corporall nor spirituall food may lawfully be sold or bought but with the good will and consent and authoritie of the owner c. Let him make it appeare that Christ hath not committed the Ministery of the Gospel to us and wee shall give place to others whom Christ shall send Meane while if the budding and blossoming and fruit-bearing of Aarons rod was a witnesse from Heaven that the Lord approved his Ministery against all the murmurings of the Children of Israel Num. 17.5 to 8. We must leave him and others to their murmurings against us and quiet our conscices in an humble blessing of the Lord for his gracious blessing upon our weake labours in that holy Ministery wee have received from him What though the Apostles were to turne away and to shake off the dust of their feete against scorners contradictors despisers persecutors It was not till they had sinned against the Holy Ghost and scorned and persecuted the convincing light of the Gospel Acts 13.45 to 51. Otherwise the Jewes were scorners and persecutors of Christ himselfe and of all that confessed his Name Joh. 9.22 yet still the Apostles ceased not to Preach to them and pray with them Acts 3.1 c. to wit whilest their Persecutors sinned of ignorance ver 17. What though the Apostles were forbidden to Preach to some places He wisely quoteth no Text for it lest the quoting might be the confuting of himselfe He knoweth it was but for a time that others according to the good pleasure of Christs will might be served before them What if Mr. Cotton saw just cause to refuse to sell spirituall Corne in a mis-hallowed Surplice Is it safe therefore for Mr. Williams to shut up his sacks mouth and to refuse to sell corne in his ordinary apparrell What if Mr. Cotton forbeare to administer the Lords Supper to all beleevers or Baptisme unto their children untill the beleevers professe their Faith and Repentance before the Church Is it safe therefore for Mr. Williams to refuse to Breake the Bread of Life unto the Church of Salem whereunto their Election and Ordination of him and his own voluntary acceptance thereof had engaged him unto stuwardly office What though in all Civill Transactions and in all the present disturbances of England principall respect is had unto a right Commission and right Order Let him shew wherein our Commission or Order is defective and reason would we should hearken to him But see the warinesse and slinesse of the Examiner I judge it not saith he seasonable here to entertaine the Dispute of the true Power and call of Christs Ministery An handsome evasion Now when the grounds of his Separation are questioned now when he standeth upon his open justification now in Print before the eyes of all men now he thinketh it not seasonable to entertaine any dispute of such things at all Thus Foelix would heare Paul when he had a more convenient time and yet that was the very time and houre of his visitation Acts 24.25 His evasion of this Text in Prov. 11.26 by comparing it with Deut. 17.12 doth but adde a delusion to an evasion Deut. 17. I suppose he meaneth though his printed copie say Deut. 15. For it is a delusion to make the capitall punishment prescribed against the presumptuous rejection of the Sentence of the chiefest Court in Israel a figure of Excommunication in the Church of Christ For first no Scripture of old or new Testament giveth any intimation of any such figure in this Law And to make a judiciall Law a figure without some light from some Scripture is to make a mans selfe wise above that which is written 2. That law is of morall equitie that is of universall and perpetuall equitie in all Nations in all Ages He that shall presumptuously appeale from or rise up against the sentence of the chiefest and highest Court in a free State is guilty Laesae majestatis publicae and therfore as a capitall offender to be censured in any free Common-wealth 3. This Law in Deut. 17. provided an effectuall punishment against such presumptuous offenders and an effectuall remedy against all such like presumption in others that all Israel might heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously ver 13. But so doth not Excommunication For what if an Excommunicate person presume against the sentence of Christ in his Church as Mr. Williams doth against the Sentence of the Church of Salem doth the power of the Church provide that all the Israel of God may heare and feare and doe no more presumptuously Is the figure become more powerfull and effectuall then the substance the shadow then the body the type then the Antitype From this mistaken Figure the Examiner would inferre The withholding of the Corne presumptuously to be death in Israel but not so in every State of the world much lesse the pleading against a false Ministery to be a capitall crime for as for Banishment never such a course was heard of in Israel Answ That law in Deut. hath nothing to doe with the withholding of Corne presumptuously unlesse there had first passed some sentence of the Soveraigne Court against the withholding of Corne. But otherwise ordinary sinnes of presumption doe fall under the Judicature of another Law Num. 15.30 31. Neither hath this Text in Solomons Proverbs any thing to doe with that Law in Deut. 17. nor with capitall punishment Solomon doth not say that every man that withholdeth his corne