with Christ for they doe continually groane vnder this corruption as vnder a most heauie burthen and fetch many a sorrowfull sigh to thinke of it and are euer complaining of it as of a most deadly enemie of theirs And all this wée many clearely sée as it were in a glasse in the example of the Apostle Paule himselfe that most rare and excellent Seruant of God Who taketh vp most pittifull and lamentable complaintes of this poysoned and infected nature I know sayth hée That in mee that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing I allow not that which I doe for what I would that I doe not but what I hate that I doe I doe not the good thing which I would but the euill which I would not that doe I. Now if I doe that I would not it is no more I that doe it but the sinne that dwelleth in mee I finde then that when I would doe good I am thus yoaked that euill is present with mee For I delite in the Law of God concerning the inner man but I see an other Law in my members rebelling against the law of my mind and leading me captiue vnto the Law of sinne which is in my members And in the end hée breaketh out into an out-cry saying O wretched man that I am who shall deliuer me from the body of this death Father Doe not Vngodly and vnregenerate men likewise mourne vnder this corruption and complaine much of it Child No you shall seldome or neuer heare them cōplaine of it or mourne vnder it For they walke after the foolish and fulfill the lusts thereof with all delight and gréedines being wholly caried after the swing and sway of their owne corrupt affections and desires Father What is the cause hereof Child Because they are forsaken of God and giuen ouer to a great blindnesse of heart and hardnesse of affections so that though their miserie is excéeding great yet they haue little sight and lesse féeling of it Father Doe you not thinke that a man in the state of nature cannot so feele his misery Child Sure it is that a méere naturall man can haue no true sight or liuely féeling of his misery or any sounde desire to come out of it but doth greatly please himselfe in it and is loath to come out of it for the Apostle sayth plainely that the naturall man perceiueth not the thinges of the spirit of God For they are foolishnesse vnto him neither can hée know them béecause they are spiritually discerned Father But may not a naturall and vnregenerate man haue the knowledge of God and the vnderstanding of his wil and so consequently a sight of heauenly things Child Yes a naturall man hath a kinde of knowledge and vnderstanding of God and of his will but it is onely a confused and braine knowledge and a literall vnderstanding of the Scriptures for hée cannot possibly haue the liuely and sauing knowledge which is ioyned with quickening grace Nor that sound vnderstanding and sight which doth lineally descend from the spirit of sanctification Father May not man in the state of nature haue feeling also of God and of heauenly things Child The Scriptures doe teach that a reprobate may haue a kinde both of sight and féeling of heauenly things for hée may bée lightened and tast of the heauenly gift and of the powers of the world to come and also tast of the good woord of God and bée made partaker of the holy Ghost But his sight and tast and féeling can neuer bée sound and good before regeneration So then all the cunning is to know whether the worke of grace in a mans soule bée sounde and currant or no for vnregenerate men are much deceiued with a false light for they doe blindly Imagine y t because they haue some kind of sight and féeling of heauenly things therefore they haue all and the same that is in euery elect Father What difference then doe you make betwixt the knowledge of the elect the reprobate Child The knowledge of the reprobate doth puffe vp The knowledge of the elect doth humble The knowledge of the reprobate is generall and confused The knowledge of the elect is particular and certaine The knowledge of the reprobates is onely literall and historicall The knowledge of the elect is spirituall and experimentall The knowledge of the reprobate is speculatiue The knowledge of the elect is practiue that is ioyned with obedience For howsoeuer a naturall and vnregenerate man may know much yet hath hée not nor can haue any power to doe I meane chearfully and aright till his heart bée enlarged by Christ his will renued by grace The knowledge of the reprobate is like y e knowledge which a mathematicall geographer hath of the earth and all places in it which is but a generall notion and speculatiue comprehension of them But the knowledge of the elect is like the knowledge of a traueller which can speake of experience and féeling and hath béene there and séene and knowen the particulars Father Now tell me further what difference you make betwixt the feeling of the elect and the reprobate Child The reprobate hath a kinde of naturall féeling of sinne but it is without the true hatred of it for in his heart hée loueth it The elect doth so féele his sin that hée hateth it taketh councell against it and praieth against it The féeling of the reprobate is from naturall faculties for hée is not as a blocke without all sence The féeling of the elect is from the spirit of sanctification The féeling of the reprobate ariseth from naturall feare diffidence for man naturally féeleth and feareth dangers so the reprobates féele and feare the wrath of God the accusations of their consciences the punishment of sinne hell fire c. But haue no true féeling of Gods loue towardes them But the elect haue a liuely féeling of Gods loue towards them The reprobate hath sometimes at starts a féeling of spiritual ioy but it vanisheth incontinently The féeling of the ioy of the spirit in the elect is more lasting and often Father As you haue told me much of mans misery in nature so tell mee yet one poynt further whether a man in the state of nature can do any thing that pleaseth God Child A méere naturall man cannot please GOD in any thing he doth but euen his best actions are turned into sinne For the Apostle sayth They which are in the flesh cannot please GOD. And againe hée saith To them that are defiled and vnbéeléeuing is nothing pure but euer their mindes and consciences are defiled Father How long doth a man continue in this wofull and cursed estate wherein he was borne Child Till hée bée regenerate and borne againe For our Lord Jesus affirmeth that except a man bée borne againe hée cannot sée the kingdome of God Father By what meanes doth a man come to be regenerate and borne againe Child By the outward
preaching of the word and the inward worke of the spirit Father By what signes may a man knowe that hee is borne againe iustified and sanctified Child By the worke of grace in his heart By his loue to the word of God By his loue to the children of God By his hatred of sinne By his loue of righteousnesse By the change of his thoughts By the change of his actions By his mortification of the flesh By his sanctification of the spirit By his walking no more after the fleshe but after the spirit and such like Father Sith man in himselfe is so cursed and miserable as you haue declared shew mee what is his best course to take and first of all tell mee which is the first steppe to eternall life Child The first steppe to eternall life is for a man to know and féele his misery and then labour to gette out of it Father How doth a man come to know and feele his misery Child By the sound vnderstanding of the law contained in the ten commandements Father What is the Law Child The perfect rule of righteousnesse teaching vs what wée should doe and forbidding the contrarie Father By whom was the Law giuen Child By Moyses Father To whom was it giuen Child To the children of Israell Father When was it giuen Child In mount Sinai Father How was it giuen Child With great feare and terror Father To what end was it giuen Child To lette vs sée our sinnes that by the sight thereof wée might bée constrayned to flye vnto Christ Father Is any man able to keepe the Law Child No and therefore no man can bée iustified by the law Father Sith then the law doth condemne and not saue Sith it sheweth our diseases but can giue vs noe remedie wherefore then serueth it or what is the vse of it both in the regenerate and vnregenerate Child As concerning the vnregenerate First it discouereth their sinnes Secondly it stirreth vp the affections of sinne in them not of it selfe but through their default Thirdly it worketh in them a féeling of the wrath of God of death and damnatiō without offering any hope of pardon and therefore to them it is the minister of death Lastly it doth increase and augment sin in them accidentarily that is by reason of their great corruption which declineth from that which is commanded but inclineth to that which is forbidden Father Lay open this last point somewhat more fully Child Euen as a waterbrooke being stopt with a damme euerwart it doth surg and swell the more till it breake ouer the damme so sinne being restrayned by the Law doth increase and rage more in men not regenerate for their will béeing not reformed doth euer tend to that which is forbidden Therefore the Apostle sayth that without the Law sinne is dead that is though sinne bée in men before the publishing of the Law yet it is not knowne felt nor perceiued as the corrupt humours in mans bodies which lye close and are not felt till the purgation come but then they humble and stirre mightely to resist the medicine or as vnslaked lyme which sléepeth as it were quietly and stirreth not till the water bée throwne vpon it but then it smooketh burneth and is in an extreame heate Or as a Snake which lurketh close in her hole all winter as if shée were deade but when the hote Sunne shineth vpon her then shée reuiueth writheth and stingeth and sheweth her venemous nature And thus you see what is the workinge of the Law in vnregenerate men But in the regenerate that is such as are vnder grace it is otherwise For they doe consent vnto the Law and their nature doth not take occasion any more by the Law to bring foorth sinne Father What is then the speciall vse of the Law of the regenerate Child First it is a rule for them to direct their liues by Secondly it teacheth them not to trust in thēselues Thirdly it humbleth them continually in the sight of God Lastly it is their schoolemaster to Christ Father Whether are the regenerate vnder the law or no Child The children of God are vnder the obedience and institution of the law but not vnder the curse of it for they being in Christ are fréed from that Father Whether are the vnregenerate vnder the law or no Child All wicked and vngodly men are vnder the curse of the Law which is all one as to bée vnder the captiuitie of Sathan and sinne For their case is this they must perfectly kéepe the Law or else bée damned For they haue no right to Christ in whom onely the Law is satisfied Wée sée therefore what a pittiful case al men are in till they come to Christ and be found in him Father What difference is there betwixt the Law and the Gospell Child The Law condemneth but the gospell saueth the law casteth down but the Gospell raiseth vp Father What difference is there betwixt the couenant of the law and the couenant of the Gospell Child The Legall couenant doth really differ from the Euangelicall or new couenant of Grace For the old couenant of the Lawe was conditionall and did no otherwise giue life and saluation vnto men but if they did performe it and therefore it was nothing else but a repetition of that which GOD made to Adam to wit if hée did eate of the forbidden fruite hée should dye if not he should liue euen so if we kéepe the Lawe wée shall liue thereby If not wée shall dye But the couenant of the Gospell is frée that is it doth fréely giue life to those that beléeue though they faile in doing Father But what comfort then is there in the couenant of the Gospell more then in the couenant of the Law sith men of themselues are as vnable to beleeue the Gospell as to keepe the Law Child God hath promised to giue power to his elect to beléeue the promises of the Gospell But hée hath made no promise to giue power to performe the Law Father Are not the Law and the Gospell contrary Child They are not contrary in themselues for the same God is the author of them both the same Christ the substance of them both the same promises of eternall life the end of both but the contrarietie is in vs for to vs the Law saith Doe this and thou shalt liue But the Gospell sayth Beleeue and thou shalt be saued These then bée contrary to bée made righteous by our selues and to bée made righteous by another for these cannot stand together Father What say you to the Euangelicall couenant or new couenant of grace was it not of two sorts Child Yes The first was that which was made to the olde people the other was that which was made to the people of Christs newe kingdome Father What difference is here betwixt these two Child These two bée all one in substance but differ onely in the manner of dispensation that is
to say in the manner of vtterance and measure of reuelation for otherwise in substance Euangelicall couenant hath alwayes béene one and the same first made to Adam in Paradise afterward renued to Abraham his séed shadowed in the law spoken of by the prophets and preached vnto vs euer since Christ was actually exhibited to the world Father You seeme to say this that the couenant of Grace with the old people of the Iewes and vs differeth only in maner not in matter that is that Christ and all the promises of remission of sinnes and eternall life in him were dimly reuealed and darkely vttered vnto them in Types and shadowes but vnto vs the same are more fully clearely opened and reuealed Child I meane so indéed Father Expresse your meaning more at large in this point Child When a new impression of any booke commeth forth in a fayre letter good print distinctly versed well bound and guilt which béefore was ill printed in a darke letter ill bound couered wée say it is a new booke yet in substance it is the same with the former the difference is onely in the forme and outward qualitie Likewise when a Paynter draweth a darke draught of any kinde of Picture in obscure lineaments and colours and afterward flourisheth it ouer with more liuely fresh and orient colours héere is the same thing in substance but altered in qualitie And thus it fareth béetwixt the Couenant of Grace made with our forefathers and vs. For the oulde people which liued vnder the minoritie and wardshippe of the Church had a darke draught of Christ and all the promises made in him But wée haue them more clearely and liuely set out And as the Apostle sayth We are not as Moises which put a vaile vpon his face c. But wee all beehold as a mirrour the glory of the Lord with open face c. And againe in diuers manners God spake in the olde time to our forefathers by the Prophets but in these last dayes hée hath spoken vnto vs by his Sonne most cléerely and manifestly Father You told me euen now that no man is able to keepe the Law Now therefore tell me what daunger lyeth vppon it If a man breake the Law of God Child Eternall death and damnation for it is written The wages of sinne is death Father Is eternall death and damnation due to vs for euery little sin though it were but in thought onely Child Yea for the least sinne of thought If God should deale with vs according vnto Justice for it is written Whosoeuer keepeth the whole Law and yet faileth in one point is guiltie of all Father How then shall we escape this eternall death and damnation Child Onely by Christ For hée hath redéemed vs from the curse of the Law being made a curse for vs. For it is written Cursed is euery one that hangeth on a tree And againe Hee that knew no sinne was made sinne for vs that wee might bee made the righteousnesse of God in him Father How and by what meanes hath Christ redeemed vs from the curse of the Law and death eternall Child By the shedding of his blood vpon the Crosse for the Scripture sayth That hee hath made vp a generall peace betwixt his father and all the elect by the blood of his Crosse And againe Wee haue redemption throught his bloud that is the forgiuenesse of sinne And in another place Wee which vvere farre off are made neere by the bloold of Christ And the author to the Hebrews saith That neither by the blood of Goates and calues but by his owne blood entred he once into the holy place and obtained eternall redemption for vs. Father Haue we no further good by Christ but onely a freedome from death and a deliuerance from hell damnation Child Yes For through him we are reconciled to God the Father as the Scripture teacheth and through him we haue remission of sinnes eternall life and all good things for the Apostle sayth He is made of God for vs wisdome righteousnes sanctification and redemption Father Is there no other way nor meanes whereby we may obtaine remission of sin eternall life but onely by Christ Child No For the holy Ghost saith There is no saluation in any other for among men there is giuen no other name vnder heauen whereby we must be saued And againe To him doe all the Prophets witnesse that through his name onely all that beleeue shall receiue remission of sinne Father What say you then to Popes pardons Indulgences Masses Trentales Dirges and such like May not a man by them obtaine remission of sinnes and eternall life Child Nothing lesse For the Scripture knoweth no such meanes or wayes to eternall life but doth vitterly reiect them as most abhominable deuises of them Father But may not a man be saued by his good works Child No For the Apostle sayth By grace are yee saued through faith and that not of your selues nor of workes least any man should boast himselfe And sure it is that euen in our best actions there is some remedy of corruption as wée doe them for the which God in iustice may condemne both vs and our actions for the Scripture sayth That our very righteousnesse is as a defiled cloath or filthy cloute If then our best workes bée stained how can wée bée saued by works Father If wee cannot bee saued by works then wherefore should wee doe them as good play for naught as worke for naught Child Not so for although wée can not bée iustified in the sight of God by our good works yet they haue their necessary vse and serue to great purpose As first to glorifie God Secondly to publish our Faith to the world Thirdly to bring peace and comfort to our consciences in the discharge of our duties And lastly to winne others Father What doe you call a good worke Child No worke of man is sound and currant indéede except the same bée commaunded of God to bée done and that of our part it bée done in such sort and manner as hée requireth that is from a carefull heart and sanctified mind otherwise whatsoeuer wée do in the worship and seruice of God it is abhominable Father If a man cannot bee saued by his works but by Christ only then tel me whether al men shal be saued by Christ or no Child None shalbée saued by Christ but onely such as beléeue in Christ that is such as doe particularly apply Christ and all the promises made in him to themselues beeing fully perswaded in themselues that Christ with all his merits is theirs Father Are you fully perswaded that Christ with all his righteousnes is yours that you haue speciall interest in him and that he dyed for you particularly and by name Child I am fully so perswaded indéede without all doubting Father How know you certainly that you haue
of the Sacrament of Baptisme let vs now proceede to speak of the sacramēt of the lords supper first tell me what is the special vse of it Child First it serueth to seale vnto our consciences all the promises made in Christ and all the benefits of his death whatsoeuer therfore there is the same vse of it that is of a seale which is to cōfirme and ratifie a writing For in outward things men like wel of a promise but better of a writing best of all of a seale Now therfore the sacrament is as it were y e kings broad seale set to his generall frée pardon For all the doctrine of the Gospel is as it were an open proclamation of pardon to all penitent sinners this sacrament is the seale of the kings pardon to ratifie confirme all the promises of the Gospell for a word or promise must necessarily go before the sacrament which it doth seale confirme vnto vs therefore the sacraments without the word of promise going before are as it were a seale to a blanke Secondly the sacrament of y e Lords supper is as it were a second seale set by the Lords owne hand vnto the former couenant made in baptisme which is renued in the Lords supper betwixt y e Lord himselfe the faithfull receiuer and that by the outward actions of eating bread drinking wine c. Thirdly the Lords supper serueth to represent vnto vs our continuall féeding in the house of God For as by baptisme we are once admitted into the houshold of God so by the Lords supper is signified a daily féeding in the same vpō Christ and all the promises made in him also vpon the word which is our most swéet heauenly manna Father Which bee the outward signes in the Lords supper Child Bread and wine Father Which be the inward things signified Child The body and blood of Christ Father How receiue you the outward signes Child I receiue them with my hands eate them with my mouth digest them with my stomack Father How do you receiue the inward things signified Child Onely by faith and féede of it as of a foode giuen me to life euerlasting Father Is the bread and wine then changed into the substance of the body and bloud of Christ Child No for that were to destroy y e nature of a sacrament which must consist both of heauenly earthly matter Therefore the bread and wine remaine still in their own forme nature substāce but Christs naturall body is in heauen Therfore the papists would make vs beléeue the moone is made of a gréen théese whē they beare vs in hand that bread is changed into flesh and wine into bloud and Christs naturall body is really present in the sacrament and yet we sée it quite contrary with our eyes and a child may discerne that it is neither so nor so Father Is there then no difference beetwixt bread and wine in the sacrament common bread and wine Child There is no difference eyther in substance or forme but only in the vse end whereunto they are applyed which is to represent signifie holy things for wheras before they were common meat now they are holy signes and beare the name of that thing which they signifie otherwise out of this action they are the same with common bread Father You said euen now that Christs bodie and blood and all the benefits of his death are receiued of vs by faith tell me therefore whether a wicked vnfaithfull man can receiue them Child He cannot for if they be receiued onely by faith how shall hée receiue them that hath no faith the vnbeléeuers therefore may receiue the outward signes that is the bread and wine as wel as others as did Iudas but the inward thing signified which is the body and blood of Christ and all the benefits of his passion none can receiue but onely the elect Father If this be true that all that receiue the shell doe not receiue the kernell then it followeth that grace is not necessarily tyed to the outward signe or sacrament Child True indéed for otherwise the faithlesse should gaine as much by the sacrament as the faithfull which were most absurd but most certaine it is that saluation is not tyed nor shut vp within the Sacraments neither doe they giue grace but onely testifie and assure that grace is giuen as sealed euidences doe giue no lands which are otherwise attayned as by inheritance friendship and money but onely testifie that they are giuen and assure the quiet possession and enioying thereof Father Why did God choose these creatures of bread and wine to represent vnto vs the body and blood of Christ rather then any other earthly creature Child Because there are none other earthly creatures that can so fitly represent vnto our outward senses those things which God would haue vs learne by this sacrament Father What be those things that God would haue vs learne by this Sacrament Child By the breaking of the bread we haue to learne the breaking of the bodie of Christ vpon the crosse and by powring forth of the wine the shedding of his blood and by the distributing to all that are present Christs communicating himselfe to all that will faithfully receiue him By eating and drinking wée learne that as bread wine do nourish our bodies in this life so Christs body and blood do nourish our soules to life euerlasting and as the substance of bread and wine by digestion passeth into the substance of our bodies euen so by faith Christ and wée are vnited with an vnspeakable vnion and wée made flesh of his flesh and bones of his bones and this is the proportion and analogie betwixt the signe the thing signified For if the sacraments had not a certaine likenesse of those things wherof they are sacraments then were they no sacraments at all Father What more is to be learned hereby Child That wée being many are one in Christ as of many graines is made one loafe and of many grapes one wine Father For as much as the vnworthy receiuer is dāned as the Apostle saith how wilt thou know whether thou art a worthie receiuer or no Child If I examine my selfe and find that I humbly acknowledge mine owne vnworthines that is to say my sins and be heartely sorry for them and fully purpose amendment of life assuredly resting vpon y e promises of pardon made in Christ then am I worthy because mine vnworthines is forgiuen put out of remembrance Father For whom are the Sacraments ordained Child The sacraments are specially ordained for those which beleeue in Christ and do séeke for remission of sins eternall life onely through his sacrifice for how can the forgiuenes of sin bée sealed vnto the vnbeléeuers whose sin is not forgiuen Father Who ought to approach vnto the Lords supper Child None but such as haue the knowledge of God in some measure