notwithstāding in y e most part of men y t thou sholdest not thinke thou art alone therfore haue not I good cause to cōplain But now I wil not tell thée euery thing for it is day I will haue thée go to prouide for thy necessaries for else I should want my selfe to morowe as thou sayedst I will returne into my selfe as I doe nowe and will tell thée at large whether I haue cause to lament of thée or no. Iust Oh wilt thou depart frō me Soule Departe no for then as I tolde thée thy death should folow Iust I had feare of that and therefore did I aske thée Soule I will vnite my selfe againe with thée til to morow in y e morning Iust Wel but my soul I wold y ◠to morow whē y u comst again to me we do not as we haue don this morning Soule Why Iust I woulde if it were possible that we should beholde one an others face For in this sort me thinke I am half mocked and I haue douted till a litle while since lest thou haddest talked in mine eare by a wile as I haue sene one doe with a dead mans head which had bored an hole in a plank at the foot of a deske vpon y ◠which stode y e dead hed by which a trunk did passe into y e mouth of the head y ◠euery mā thought it had ben a spirit of y e which thing I stand yet in dout of thée And finally I wold haue thée certainly assure me whether thou art my Soule or no as thou sayest Soule Very wel I am contēt I wil deliuer thée of this dout by by ▪ heare and mark well what I say vnto thée and I will speke it softly that no mā heare it if any be by for it is a secret which none other knoweth but Iust the Couper which is thou and I. Iust I am sure for this I know that none other person but my selfe knoweth therfore since thou knowest it y u art also I I haue no more doubt Therfore y t we may to morow reson more effectually I would y ◠one of vs might sée an other for then it séemeth a man speaketh more the truth than thus without seing together Soule It is impossible y t thou sholdst sée me as I am bicause I am without a body I haue neither figure nor color for y ◠figure y e quātitie be only in bodies color can not stād but in the vpper part of the same wherby I am inuisible but I might well take a body and so might I shewe me to thée Iust And howe Soule Thou professest a scholer of Daut haste thou not red it in his purgatorie I coulde with my vertue informatiue make me a body of aire giuing it thicknesse and after colour euen as the Sunne makes the Air◠grosse vaporous wherof comes the raine bow The whiche waye the angels holde and other spirites when they will shewe themselues to men Iust Thou wilte make me beleue some straunge thing then Soule What straunge thing hast thou not reddde in the Gospell that Christ when he appered to his disciples after his resurrection that they should not beleue he had one of these bodies he sayd touche me for spirits haue no bones Iust Then let vs do so but sée with al that thou partest not from me nor go frō my body for I wold not die yet Soule Well I will finde the way not to part at all Iust And howe for I will vnderstande that and not lette this thing passe for it is of too great a waight Soule I wil seperate my selfe wyth my intellectiue parte and with onely fantasie without the which I coulde not vnderstande leauing in thée all my other powers that is vegetatiue by the which thou lyuest and sensitiue by the which thou féelest and discourse by memory that thou might reason by the helpe 〈◊〉 things which thou knowest and demaunde me what thou wilte Iust And by this meane shall I not dye Soule No I say Iust Very well remember then I am out of perill and I will not sée thée before Soule Doubt not I say and lose no more time but rise and goe to thy businesse ▪ for the sunne is now risen Iust Well well tomorow we méete agayne The .ij. Reasoning SOVLE IVST SInce thou sléepest no more aryse make thée ready and light a candle and in the meane time I wil forme my selfe a body of this aire about euen as I said vnto thée yesterday that thou mayst sée me and we at our ease talke together Iust Oh my Soule with a good wil but heare me I praye thée remember that I saide vnto thée Soule What Iust That thou makest no separation from me wherby my death might ensue Soule What nedest thou to replie so oft haue I not saide vnto thée that I will leaue in thée all mine other powers but onely intellect and imagination which is it that makes you vnderstande and not it that makes you lyue for that is the power called vegetatiue the whych you haue common wyth trées Iust If I beare no peril of death I am content and if I do not agree vnto it blame me for beastes lyue and vnderstand not Soule Ah foole dost thou esteme life so much that thou woldst rather choose to liue fiftie yeres without vnderstanding as a beast than tenne with intelligence as a man Iust For my parte I had so doest thou thinke it a prety sporte to die I tell thée I neuer sawe any yet come againe and of Lazarus that was raysed they say he was neuer séene laugh afterward and that was bicause he was afraide to die once againe so fearefull was the first vnto him Soule This thou speakest bicause that part which is voyd of reason is it that nowe speaketh in thée but if I were with thée thou wouldest not say so Iust I knowe not that and as for me since I can remember I haue euer ben of this minde and yet thou haste ben with me Soule It is so but as a seruant not as a maistresse as I ought for 〈◊〉 thou haddest folowed my counsell and not the other called sensuall thou wouldest haue done as Paule did many other which desired to be taken out of thys life where they knew they were Pilgrims and brought home to their coūtrey Iust Thou beginnest to trouble my brayne till a man comes to the points of death euery one saith so but when death is present the man changeth his fantasy remember our master y ◠went to pray in the gardin to sée if he coulde escape death Soule Ah Iust he did it not for that but to shewe with these passions naturall that he was a man as he had shewed by miracles and with workes supernaturall that he was God but let vs reserue this talke till a more conuenient time what meaneth it thou arte so long about to light that match Iust I thinke it is
as thou sayst but sée I doe not graunt thée it for if I did so what would other do who am I then Soule Thou art the body of Iust Iust And who art thou Soule The soule of Iust Iust Thâ— what maner thing is Iust Soul We two together for neither is the body nor the soule the maÌ„ but that coÌ„pound thing that coms of them both And mark that wheÌ„ the soule is separate fro the body it is called man no more but a carcas after the Latin tong and a deade body after y â— vulgar spéech so as thou spakest before when thou saidst y â— wert half beside thy self Iust This is true and I can not denie it But heare me if thou art my soule as thou sayst what means this thy beginnyng to talke of thy selfe without me shalte thou euer depart from me â–ª Alas I would not that for then I should die as thou sayst Soule Haue no doubt of y â— Iust for I haue no lesse will to remaine with thée thaÌ„ thou hast to remain with me Iust O blessed be y â— my swete soule Soule Yea I praye thée that thou wilt not put me from thée Iust Mary God forbid beleue not that for I wold liue loÌ„ger if I could than did Mathusalem Soule Yea but y â— is not inough for y â— may not do as one of our Citizens did which was wont to say y â— he neuer put away seruant but he handled them so whome he liked not as they went away of themselues Iust And what wayes be they that I must kepe y â— thou goe not froÌ„ me Soule Take héede thou make no disorder whereby the temperature of thy complexion wherevpon thy life is founded doe not come to suche alteration as it choketh thâ— â–ª vital spirites and force me to depart â–ª froÌ„ thée Iust And if I regarde my selfe as thou sayest how long wilt thou tarie with me Soule So long as thy grounded moysture â—e not dried vp for thy naturall heate shall bée quenched â–ª as a lampe that lacketh oyle Iust And wherof commes that Soule Of age the which is nothing else but a drying â–ª vp of the one and a cooling of the other Iust O good Soule hears â–ª me teach me then if ther he any way to restore this moysture that thou speakest of that dothe quenche as the oyle of the lampe that it may continue longer Soule There is none other waye but that whiche nature hath taughte thée giuing thée appetite to eate â–ª and drink with one of the which heate with the other moisture is restored Iust Then he that eats and drinks well shall neuer die Soule Rather the contrarie for too much nouriture â–ª doe gendre too great quantitie of humours â–ª and the moste parte not good whereof come those infirmities that violently doe strangle the liuely spirites euen as a light put out by force and is the cause of death before our time Iust Oh how might a man then do it by eating and drinking by rule Soule Neither by this could a man liue euer â–ª for that restorement that is made is of moisture â—eate which be not of y â— perfection as those which nature haue giuen although they 〈◊〉 better or worse in one and an other according to the coÌ„plexion And Iust thou knowest y t in this thing it haps as doth in a vessel of wine out of the which if thou takest euery â–ª day a drop and put in as muche water â–ª in space of time it wil come to passe â–ª that it is no more wine nor can not be called watred wine but rather wined water bycause there lackes in it â–ª 〈◊〉 worke the operation of wine euen so when moisture and heate restored by outwarde meane of eating and drinking do ouercome the naturall it can not doe those operations that the naturall doth wherby the life falleth to decay Iust What is the cause that amoÌ„g men that vse all one manner of diet some haue longer life than other Soule CoÌ„plexion which one hath by nature better than an other by which his heaâ—e is more temperate and his moisture lesse apte to be dried vp and corrupted as in sanguine 〈◊〉 and al them y t haue their moisture lesse watry more â—â—ry â–ª Of the which thing thou mayst see euident experience in trées amoÌ„g which they that haue watrie moisture â–ª as alders willowes salowes and other like endure but a while they that haue airy as pine â—â—rre cypresse do liue long time â–ª and and all this commeth bicause the airy moisture is more hardly dried corrupted than is the watrie Iust Oh my soule I do not remember that since I had vnderstandyng I haue euer had so muche pleasure as this morning and forasmuche as I am a litle assured of thée and begyn to beleue that thou art my soule and not a spirite or a vision as I thought at the first I will aske thée certaine questions Soule Say what thou wilte for I willingly answere thée Iust But before I doe aske any thing I would haue thée tell me why after we haue ben together .lx. yeare or more thou haste deferred to discouer thy selfe and to reason with me as thou dost now for if thou haddest done so before I should perhaps haue beÌ„ an other maner maÌ„ thaÌ„ I am now Iust There haue ben many causes that haue kept me from doing of it the principal cause hath ben thineage not apt vnto it for in thine Infancie and Childehoode thy members and partes be not apt to my seruices and in thy growing and youthly time the passions of the sensitiue parte that then be most vehement in thy ripe yeares care how to liue at lust hathe not suffred me to withdrawe â–ª me into my selfe as I haue done now when I am not letted of like things â–ª although as yet â–ª I can not do it as I would for thou being afrayde euery houre not to lose that thou hast as other old couetous men thou doest not suffer me to rest one halfe houre in the day for when thou hast eaten or sleptte thou runnest to thy work wherby I being forced to minister vitall spirites to thy senses and thy members I neuer haue any rest and of this did I lameÌ„t at the beginning if thou remeÌ„brest when I began to talke with my self Iust Wel tel me for this it is that I wil aske thâ—â— first what is the cause why thou didst lament of me Haue I not alwayes loued thée euen as thou haddest ben my proper soule and my life as thou sayst thou art Soule Yes but thou haste muche more loued thy selfe and where thou oughtest to haue loued thy selfe for my sake and haue made much of thy selfe that I mighte the better haue wrought in thee mine operatioÌ„s thou hast loued me for thy seruice so the parte lesse worthy lesse noble hath euer coÌ„maÌ„ded y e more worthie more noble as it doth
somewhat moist and the stone is not very good and this iron hath almost worne out the sâ—éele Soule Thou doest as the Poet Daut saith in his banquets All artificers not cunninge doe impute all the errours they do to the matter they work on why diddest not thou say bicause I am olde and haue the palsey and misse the stone oftener than I hit it Iust That is true in déede I cannot deny it and would to God I did not so al soin other things for I haue delite to do nothing and I am come to such a time of age that euery thing is irksom vnto me and very pleasure is vnpleasant to me Soule And yet wouldst thou not die Iust Doest thou not heare that I would not Soule And doest not thou sée that this life of thine is nothing but a death Iust Though it be I haue séene of them that be much more elder than I and haue no téeth and goe with theyr mouth to the grounde and yet would not die rather I wyll say vnto thée that the elder a man is the more doth death grieue him and I haue séene the proofe in my selfe for when soeuer my heade doth but ake my heart quaketh and I begin to say Woulde to God this be not my last request for I didde not so when I was young rather doe I remember that I hadde a sicknesse that brought me euen to the port of an other world and yet I neuer thought to dye but rather laughed at them that would haue hadde me confessed so as if I had dyed then I had gone withoute any care or griefe whych nowe I shall not doe for I thinke of nothyng else and lyue euen as he made the declaration of the Tyrantes lyfe Dionysius of Scicily whych tyed a naked sworde with a horse haire and hong it ouer his head Soule And what is the cause Iust as thou thinkest wherefore death is more fearefull to olde folkes than to yong Iust I thinke bicause they are more entangled with the world in the which they haue liued so long Soule Ah that is a very simple reason and taketh place onely in â—otyes as thou art and I beleue thou haste learned it of Trées whych the longer they lyue the déeper roote they make and are then harde to be pulled vp but by the reasonable discourse whych thou haste and long experience which thou oughtest to haue by thy longe time thou hast lyued thou oughtest to haue made a better reason Iust Be contente thys may perhappes come of that thou sayest that a man who hathe lyued longe and made a Iudgemente by longe experience more perfect doth better knowe howe goodly a thyng lyfe is to him and howe much he ought to estéeine it and haue it in price wherefore it grieueth him the more to lose it thaÌ„ it doth a yong man that doth not knowe it As it would grieue a man more to lose a iewel that knoweth the value therof than it wold him that knoweth it not Soule This thy second reason is not much worth neither though it were true it maketh no lesse for hym that would say the contrary than it doth for thée Iust Which way tell me Soule Bicause if he that liueth getteth a iudgement by the which he knoweth better the things he shal knowe also better how full of miserie our lyfe is And if a man should not hope for a better in the other world he should be the most miserable and vnhappy creature in the vniuersall worlde which is manifestly against al right of reasoÌ„ he being the most perfecte of all hauing vnderstanding which is a most diuine thing by the which not onely the holy letters but also the Pagans and Gentils do cal him lorde of all other Creatures and the ende of all other things which they say are made of nature for him Iust Howe canst thou proue that a man should be the most vnhappy creature of the world if he dyd not hope for a better life than this Soule Bicause in this life he is much disgraced naked without a house not able to speake hauing nothing to eate vnlesse he getteth it and when he hath it cannot vse it vnlesse it be of other dressed wheras other beasts be borne clad some with one thing some with an other they haue their houses some vnder the earth some in woods some in flouds and the earth bringeth forth all things nedefull for them without any payne and what testimony canst thou haue more cléere of this than Plinie which in his consideration of al things was so angry with Nature as he called hir mother of beasts and stepdame of man Iust Wel I am content it be so but what makes this to my reasoÌ„ which y â— saist is aswel against me as with me Soule Bicause he y â— shal handle these matters reasonably without any affection he wil conclude that his felicity is not in this life wher the other brute beasts inferiour to him haue it if they may neuerthelesse be called happy of y â— which being certified by natural reasoÌ„ the light of fayth he wil not much regarde lyfe but rather be troubled with a desire to be out of it and to go to the other as they haue done that haue despised vice gon by the way of vertue so as if thou hast no better reason this is only in aparaÌ„ce coÌ„cludeth nothing Iust Oh my Soule wherof cometh that Soule That is it I haue thought to tell thée O my body for so must I call thée to speake rightly not Iust as I haue done wil doe bicause I will not trouble thy brayne too much but wilt thou that I tell thée Iust Yea I pray thée for I desire nothing so much Soule It commeth of little faith and surely ther is nothing that causeth deth both to olde and yong to be sorowfull but that they beleue too little Iust Ah ah a great Citizen of ours said well who I thinke had in himselfe proued by experience when he caused his graue to be made halfe within the Church dore and halfe without Soule Well this thou must thinke Iust y e men be like vnto on vs wherof the yong be soone taken But as thy friend Daut fayth In vaine the Nette is 〈…〉 de In vaine the shafte is shot At birds that haue their wings at wil And for the snare care not Iust Oh God I thinke thou sayst true bicause I remember since I was a yong man that many times at certain deuotions that we made in a company certain prechings that I heard I was easely to be entreated to die But nowe backea while for I would make any contract to liue Soule Ah ah how thinkest thou is it not as I haue faide but maruel not at that for the maner of yong men and women is easely to beleùe Iust I am of thine opinion but heare me the fault is more thine than mine for thou art she to
much to my cōfort for ther is not a better thing in the world thā for a man sometime to deceiue himselfe thinking he is wise or faire or suche like And he that is in this case enioyeth the world without any care Soule Yea to fooles it hapneth so Iust And haue not they pleasaunt dayes also Dost thou not remember of our physitian of Florence which a while was frantike foolishe and being sought vnto of a pore woman to helpe a sonne of hirs that was in like case he answered good woman I will not deale in it for I should doe him to muche wrong for I neuer had so pleasaunt time as when I was so diseased my selfe Soule Let these reasons goe for they be not conuenient to our nature and muche lesse to thy age and since thou wilt not speake heare me for I wil not faile to doe that I haue promised Iust I shall gladly doe it for it is so much betwixt this and day that I shold be so idle and that would irke me Soule Iust I haue many times cōsidered with my self y ◠al those things wher by they blame olde age for thou knowest with old men the other do not much kéepe company bicause they of one age are euer glad to talke togither may be reduced to foure causes that be principall of all and by the meane of age reputed noysome and grieuous of euery man Iust Which be they Soule The first is that it maketh them vnméete to do things y ◠secōd it makes their body weak the third it depriueth them of pleasures the fourth that he is nighe death Iust Thinkest thou then that they blame it without cause Soule Yea sure and that thou maist know the truthe with thine errour let vs first examine diligently this their opinion and to begin with the first tell me what things be they whereunto a man is made more vnapt by age Iust What be they euen all Soule I would not haue thée say so for thou art wrōg but wilt thou know which they be only they that be done by force they be rather méete for beastes than for men the greater parte of the which be made of greater force thā we be for our seruice that they might case vs of superfluous trauaile to vs she hath giuen wit to serue our selues with it So if thou considerest wel thou shalt sée that the greater parte of these operations y ◠haue néede of much force be things seruile all wise men makes them to serue for those turnes But the great things which be of importance be not done with force but with councell wisdome of the which things olde age doth most abound Iust And what makest thou of Art of warre thinkest thou that can be done without force Soule No but in this many times councell and prudence doeth more than force Iust Whom canst thou make beleue that that wher néede is to do he is more profitable that sitteth saith nothing than he that bestirreth his hands Soule All they that haue so muche knowledge or become so prudent by experience of things which knowe it is cléere that it is much more hard well to know how to commaund and gouerne than to do well and obey For standing in this thy opinion there should folow that he were more profitable in a ship that roweth or hales or spreade sailes thā the master that gouerns al for they worke and he stands and commaunds Iust What should he doe that commaundeth if he had not that did obey Soule Fewer faultes a great deale than they should if they had not one to commaund them therfore if thou consirest wel thou shalt sée few cities maintained in felicitie but y ◠be gouerned of old men For although yong men somtime augmēt yet cā they not maintain for yong mē be caried with Wil which in them is like the thirst y ◠a great ague bringeth with it whereby they suffer themselues to be ouercome of loue of anger or of many other passions which y ◠age hathe And further they be so ambitious desirous of praise that many times they aduēture inconsideratly vpon enterprises so hard and daungerous ▪ that they bring away no lesse hurt than shame And that that is worse they be cruel and put hope in euery litle thing they make little accompt of their owne they import their secretes to euery mā whereby it is an easie thing to deceiue them The which thing hapneth not to olde men which for their long experience and for that they haue oft ben deceiued of things of the worlde they put not so rashly themselues to perill they tell not so easily their minde they beleue little and hope lesse And bicause they haue learned how hard a thing it is to get riches they cast them not awaye as yong men doe but make store of thē to haue when néede shall require Iust And so the most parte become couetous berieuing them selues of that liberality wherof there is nothing foūd so profitable for man and chiefly to thē that shall gouerne other for it causeth that men serue them for loue and euery man knoweth that rule that is done by loue is muche more sure and durable than that is done by force Soul That thou thinkst in yong mē liberalitie is for the most part prodigalitie for young men giue easily to them that praise them or bring them any delight where olde men bycause they are more prudente and knowe things better giue more to whom is conuenient in the which thyng liberalitie proprely cōsisteth So as thou séest howe much thou art deceiued to say that age maketh a man lesse apt to do things wher as it maketh them more experte and prudent with the which vertues as I sayd before only great affaires be done Iust Wel be it so as thou hast said which in dede I wil not vtterly deny for abiding of trauel is rather a thing of beasts than of men to whom counsel and discourse belongeth wilt thou denie me that old Age doth not bring w t it so many infirmities as it so enfeebleth mans bodie y t it is to be shoonned and deserues to be blamed Soule All other ages doe the like rather worse than it For those infirmities that childhode and youth bringeth with it be much more perillous For they be more sodaine and sharpe i◠respecte of the humors and bloude which be more of greater force in yong men than in olde Iust How wil you proue that Soule What néede I labor in it for experiēce wil make thée certaine séest thou not that there die more children than yong men and how fewe they be that come to olde age Iust Certainely in this thou haste reason for I do not beleue that of thē y ◠be borne two of the hundred comes to fiftie yeares Soule And wherof thinkest thou cometh that but that those ages be subiect to more dangerous diseases than olde age is Iust
whom beliâ—â—e doth appertaine and not I. Soule It is true that I ought to beleue neuer the lesse the principall cause that maketh that I doe not is thy selfe Iust Oh how so sée how thou woldest cast the blame vpon an other Soule Thou knowest howe I can haue no knowledge whiles I am vnited with thée but by the meanes of thy senses the which knowing nothing but sensible thyngs doe force me thorow the great vnion that is betwene thée and me to goe by that path which thou shewest me that is by the things of the world Iust These he but wordes for thou art one thy selfe and as thou sayst the principal why then dâ—st thou not make me folow thée and not thou follow me if I goe a wrong way Soule I am bound within thée and so cloâ—ged of thy earthly nature that I lose the greater parte of 〈◊〉 strength and â—a 〈…〉 lifte vp my selfe to heauen as the perfection of my nature doth require Besides this the reasons with the which I shoulde make thée assured of the light of faith haue not so great forcâ— â–ª as haue the knowledge of sense which thou â—euest me But beleue me Iust that death doth not greue hym that deleueth Iust This might as well be of him that bâ—leueth not forâ—â— might thynke that when he dieth as his pleasures shall 〈◊〉 so shal his paynes ende also of the which I thinke there is no lesse number in the worlde than of the pleasures as thou didst say Soule And who is he that thinketh there is nothing in the other world Iust Oh oh there is happâ—ly one or two I would I had so many 〈…〉 ducates as I haue known do know Soule Oh it had ben aswell said so many vertues hadde I but I sée Iust that thou 〈◊〉 an earthly piece and crauest nothing but earthly things Iust Oh if there were nobody else howe many Popes haue there bene â–ª Soule What Popes how like a 〈◊〉 speakest thou Iust I speake of them thaâ— haâ—â— interpreted the booke of Lazarus so wyâ—kedly as they haue sayd that in the other worlde is nothing Soule What booke of Lazarus speakest thou of â–ª Iust Oh as though y â— knewst it not Soule No not I. Iust Well thou shalt know it now They say y t Lazarus being asked after his rising of many of his friends what was in the other world he aunswered he wold leaue it in writing Now eyther that he forgot it or that it is not lawfull to speake of things of the other world of one y â— had ben ther as S. Paule saide when he died lefte a booke sealed with order it should be giuen to the Pope in the which nothing was written wherfore the Pope that no slauÌ„der shold be giueÌ„ to the world which with great desire did loke to hear what was ther did hide it saying he might not open it to any but to his successor so the Bishops haue done from one to an other till this day Now they that haue expounded the matter godly affirming the cause to be that it is not lawful for men to know the things there farther theÌ„ hath ben declared to vs by the scripture be they y â— haue ben good men the other that haue thus interpreted y â— mater that the meaning is that in the other world is nothing be they whom thou hast séene which when they haue come to their Papacie haue done that they thought might serue their turne Soule A Iust these be tales deuised of such as thou art but I wil say this vnto thée that if thou considerest well thou neuer foundst any that can beleue this that there is nothing absolutely and without al respect for they should haue to much contentacion and pleasure in this world they might fulfil all theyr desires without any trouble of â—â—nde which were no small thinge and they might also say as that honest woman which being taken in the sacke of Genoua saide God be thanked that I shal once haue my luste without any remorse of conscience Iust I thinke thou sayest truth for I haue hearde there was once one in Florence that was called M. Iohn de Caui a Phisitian Philosopher most famous the which whilest he liued shewed him selfe alwayes to be reâ—olued that the Soule was mortall neuerthelesse when he was a dying he saide by and by I shall be out of a great force And diuers other whoÌ„ I haue knowne to be of that opinion in their life haue ben otherwise at their death Wherof one Naum Grosso and Lance Goldesmith liuing pleasantly and beleuing in apparaunce not muche aboue the house top yet at their deathe the one called for a crucifixe but woulde haue it giuen him by the hand of Donatello that was dead The other sayd I recommend my self to him in the other worlde that can do moste be it God or the deuil and he that most may let him most catche Soule Let these things go for they haue more of brutishnesse than of reason and if thou remeÌ„brest thou shalt finde that in thy time there haue ben halfe a score more whom thou hast knowne to haue beÌ„ in their life scarce religious haue séemed to beleue too litle and yet haue liued morally and as behoueth to reasonable creatures which at the point of death not beyng able neuer to quench a certaine prick of reason and a certain desire and acknowledgyng of Immortalitie although it were confused and iudging it naturall and knowyng that naturall desires be not vain nor of things that can not be hadde they haue bene reduced to God and haue confessed their erroure and so recommended them selues to God as he hath giuen them the lyghte of Fayth whereby they haue dyed Christian men But lette vs leaue thys reasonyng and goe lyghte thy candle bycause it shal be tyme by and by that thou go to thy worke Iust Thou haste a thousande reasons and I stayde to reason wyth thée What ayleth thys tynder that it wyll not take nowe thankes bée to GOD it is lyght Oh oh good Lorde What a goodly thyng what a goodly Creature Oh my Soule blessed bée thou for thou art a faire thyng Soule Sitte sytte Iust least thou fall for thou art olde Iust I can not holde my selfe but I muste néedes embrace thée wyllyng thée so well and neuer hauyng seene thee before But alas what is the matter I féele nothyng yet I sée thée Am I not well in my wyttes Soule Iust thou makest profession of a Dautist and thou doest not remember it when thou shouldest Doest not thou remember that the lyke also happened vnto Daut hymselfe when that he woulde haue embraced Casella And the cause is this that we be as shadowes and do only shewe oure selues to the sighte but wée can not bée proprely touched bycause that we be withoute bodyes And this body which I haue made me being of the aire is also vntouchable
as myne dothe me so as myne may well be a dreame yet I can not beleue it for I knowe many thyngs which I did not before But now that I am sure I sléepe not nor dreame not I wyll sée yf shée wyll reason wyth me as she hathe done and call hir as she appoynted yesterday in the mornyng I shoulde doe My soule O my soule Soule What wouldest thou Iust Iust Sée it is trewe that I dydde not dreame I woulde wée shoulde talke a whyle together as we haue done and that thou wouldest contente me in that thou dydst begyn to speake of yesterdaye in the mornyng But sée I wyll not that thou go out of mée any more as thou hast done these two mornyngs For I passe not now to sée thée and I know I haue bene in greate peryll and also playde the very foole to put my selfe in suche hazarde wherevpon my lyfe laye Soule What perill was that Iust As thou sayest thou haddest a greatte wylle that I shoulde studye wherefore when thou haddest bene from me and mynded to returne no more to mae but for to enter into the bodye of some Studente then shoulde I haue bene a body withoute a Soule and yf not as dead yet at least one of the base beastes Soule Doubt it not Iust thou art in no suche daunger for if thou remembrest wel I tolde thée I dyd not in all separate my selfe from thée but only with my part diuine y ◠which is suche as being immortall may be withoute thee Iust Very well and bycause she may be without me therfore I feare bycause I would not become a beast I say and sée one other with my brain and with his sell me by and by and then other euery day ten times Soule Although I can be withoute thée which shall be after that separation that death shall make of vs neuerthelesse I can not informe any other body but thée til the day of iudgement Iust Wherfore Soule Bycause of that perpetuall qualitie that I must informe thée and none other Iust What is that qualitie thou speakest of Soule It is a certaine conuenience and inclination that I haue to worke by thée to begyn to taste my perfection which was not gyuen me of God at my creation as to angels which if I had I shoulde haue no nede of thée And this is the onely thyng that maketh me differ from other soules bycause we being not different in kind as of y ◠other beasts forasmuch as we be reasonable they not nor can not be different in number bicause we be not materiall it shoulde folowe that we were all one thing and this consideration hath brought many greate men into greatest errours but one of vs is different from an other by that qualitie respecte that she hath with hir body and not with other Iust I will be playne with thée I vnderstande not this matter Soule Maruel not for Duns whom they call the subtill Doctour who thought he vnderstode it better than other gyuing it the name Eccheita a name altogether strange to the barbarous eares muche more to the Latines did not vnderstande it perfectly him selfe Iust Then let it goe for I woulde not that we shoulde enter into these toyes and then happe to me as dyd to hym that going aboute to blynde other mens braynes dydde so blinde hym selfe as he was buried quicke Whiche thyng myghte well happen to me if I were founde once wythout thee therefore tarrie wyth me as thou haste done for I wyll no more abide the perill and I care not nowe to sée thée Soule I sée thou haste such feare of our separation that it is full tyme I deliuer thée of it Vnderstand that although I haue tolde thee I goe out of thée yet I neuer dyd nor can doe it but by death and that is bicause I am thy forme am not in thée as a mariner in a ship as many haue beleued Iust This is a new tricke what I haue séene thée Soule It appeares s◠to thée Iust Appeare wilt thou make me beleue I see not a thing when I see it Soule I say it dyd but appeare so Iust Which way Soule I wil tell thée I moued from those visions and images which thou hast in fantasy and represented them to thy vertue imaginatiue as I doe when thou dreamest and so it semeth thou dyddest see me Iust Canst thou deceyue me after this sort Soule I can and in this sort spirits deceiue mē many times and therfore their apparitiōs be called fantastical Iust What is it true there be spirites in déede Soule Dost thou doubt Iust I can not tel I haue heard say of many learned men that they bée things fained things that appeare only to certain simple mē that they come somtime of melācoly humors y ◠bréede by hearing of strange things Soule They be of those lerned men that think they vnderstand all things and shewe they haue redde little in Stories or in Scripture and litle to beleue in the same which is worse I tell thée that spirites be and besides this make them that beleue them to seme they be sometyme an other thing hast thou not hearde that they that be witches think they be Cats Iust Be these sorcerers also true Soule Would God they were not true which he suffreth for our sinnes Reade what the Count of Mirandula writeth of one that he had in his hāds And the Canonists wold haue forsene that it had not ben true whiche haue made a particular law of the witched and enchaunted Iust Surely that is a greate argument but let it go Thou hast taken a great waight from my heart saying thou wylt not go from me But now let vs turne to our talke yesterday in the morning tell me whereof comes it that these Doctors do◠so discorage other from study shewing them it is a greater paine than to cary the stone of Verma as the Prouerbe sayth Soule Thou knowest Iust that the least part of men be good but whether this commeth either of the infirmitie of the fleshe or of euill custome or of little religion I will not nowe dispute Iust Thou sayst truth ther be more bad than good and do so increase that I feare we are nygh the ende of the worlde Thou séest how we haue growen worse worse these fiftie yeres I wil not reason of Popes Cardinals and Priests and lesse of Friers that thou sholdest not by and by proclaime me a Luterane But consider children of ten yeares olde how they be without reuerence without shame bolde dishonest and mocke a man of fiftie yeres Alas I remember that in my time we passed twentie yeres before we knewe what Venus or Bacchus was and nowe so soone as they bée borne the one is gyuen them for a nurse the other for a master Soule Ye may thank their good education and the small wisedom of their fathers which think it a propre thing
sonne the way the truth and light of y ◠worlde that the creatures reasonable mighte by the meane of this be broughte to their perfection which certenly is nothing else but a contemplation of the first and vnspeakeable veritie Iust Both in this and other I will do that thou wouldest haue me Soule Thanke thine age whyche hath so cooled thy blood and weakened thy force as thou leauest a parte the pleasures of the world and art reduced to this way of life Wherefore it may be rather sayd as once that Citizen didde that sinne hath left thée before thou it Iust Bée it as it may I wil not contende with thée Soule Nor I wold not for this but thou sholdest cōtinue to do well for if thou hast begon to liue in order by necessitie this seruile feare for so wil I cal it might one daye by the grace of God be turned into the feare of a son By the which thou should deserue no lesse thanke of hym than reputation of the worlde Iust It can hardly be brought about but youthe and other ages will haue their course and hée that doth it not yong will doe it olde as those birdes that can not sing in May sing after in September but let vs speke no more of this delyuer me from the doubt I tolde thée Soule Althoughe there haue bene many opinions of them whiche the worlde calleth wyse whyche haue sought howe I should knowe and vnderstande thyngs they may be reduced to two for two principall sectes haue ben that haue spoken and written of mée One of them is that hold I am immortall all diuine created of God moste good and greate and poured into thée and of these Plato with his other Achademicall Philosophers was chiefe an other is of them that hold that I haue my beginning with my body And of this Aristotle with his Peripatetical scholers is head although he spake not so as it might cléerely be gathered of his wordes whether he held I was mortal or immortall but hée strikes at large somtyme and sometyme so at hande as some holde by hym that I am immortall and some mortall Iust Howe doth he it Soule I wyll tell thée Hast thou euer hearde of one that asked counsell to take a wife And when he sayde Shée is faire take hir quod the other And when he sayd she is of euil bloud take hir not then sayd he but she hath a good dowrie take hir then No she is somewhat proude take hir not And so he still answered yea or no as he brought forth new matter And so dothe Aristotle with me For when he considereth me vnited wyth my body he sayth I am mortall and when he considereth me as an agent intellection that I can worke without it he sayth I am immortall so as finally he that readeth hym is neuer certain whether I am mortall or immortall Iust Peraduenture he was not certaine himselfe Soule I think so surely Wherfore he dyd as they do that loue y ◠worlds glorie more than the truthe whyche when they know not a thing bicause they will not lose their estimation they wyll not confesse it but speake confusedly that men shoulde rather thinke they wyll not speake it than that they know it not Iust Of how great euil is this worldly pride the cause Soule Yea and that maruellously Consider a little in things of religion that they which the worlde calleth diuines for y t they wil not confesse they do not vnderstande thyngs appertaynyng to Faith by naturall light they haue taken vpon them to proue it by propositiōs of Philosophy which is al contrarie to Faith for that procedeth with order naturall principles and faith excéedeth passeth all nature Iust Who haue these ben Soule Those which commonly we call Scholasticall which haue sought a reason of euery thing that God hath made with their learning Iust I maruell he is not once surely angrie with them Soule That is bycause he is the chiefe goodnesse Iust As for me I knowe no prince but that wold be angrie with his seruant that woulde knowe a reason of all his doings Me think this is plainly to cal God into the consistorie But tell I praye thée whether these be the diuines that are called Paris schole Soule Euen they thou hast hit it Iust Oh those matters are decayde For Bartol y e bokeseller my neighbor hath told me that he selleth no more of thē that he hath an hundred horsloade which he wold barter for cleane paper and giue somewhat to boote Soule Thāk y e Lutherans who giuing no faith but to y e holy Scripture haue caused y ◠men be forced to returne to rede them to leaue such disputatiōs Iust Marke that it is true whiche is sayd That many times of a great euill commeth some good But let vs leaue thys and turne to our talke Soule Of these two sectes which I spake Plato which held I was immortall diuine séeing that I vnderstode euery thyng sayde I was created of God full of all sciences eternally And after when I descended into thée for so God had ordeined that I shold purgo me of certain spots that I had I forgot them al and after by helpe of Schoolemaisters and exercises in studies I returned to my minde and so hée sayde that our learnyng was a remembrance and not a learnyng of newe Iust That opinion I could like wel inough Soule Thou woldest say so if thou heardest the reasons that he maketh whiche be such as they made Origene and many other christian diuines to holde the same opinion and Austen also when he wrote vpon the Genesis although he dyd retract afterward Iust Did Origene reuoke Soule Not that I know Iust And dyd he saye too that you were made of God eternally Soule Yea and that we wer of angels shape whiche opinion was after reproued of the churche as erronious and hereticall Iust Thou makest me now remember of my neighbour which said that our soules were those little Angels which were not comprehended in sin nor in seruice of God but betwéene bothe and were after sent into vs to be determined whether they wold folow good or euil it was neuer knowen he helde this opinion in his lyfe but after his death it was founde in his bokes Wherfore his bones were taken vp and buried out of the church yarde Soule Who was that Iust Mathew Palmer dost thou not remember but thinkest thou he was damned for this Soule I do not beleue it for though this opinion is holden erronious yet he feared God and regarded the honour of the same and he was a louer of his neighbour as thou doest well know in the which things consisteth all christian religion So as it is not to be beleued that a man of so holy and good behauior for holding such an opinion which is not against the honor of God shoulde be damned and
be he that giuing vs of his grace may mainteyne vs in so quiet and caulme maner of liuing Soule An other reson also cónstraineth vs to liue vertuously and that is that it séemeth that to olde men it is méete to be wyse otherwise they bée despised and so where that age ought to bring them reuerence and honor it is to them dispraise and none séemeth wise vnlesse he be cōpted good though he be not good for the begynnyng of Wisedome is to feare God Iust That is moste true For as there can not a thing be found that is better more profitable to men than a good man so can there not a thing be found that more hurteth him than an vniust man of leude and euil conditions of the which thing a certaine philosopher considering sayde that one man was the woulfe of an other and not the Woulfe Soule We ought also to consider y ◠this age bringeth with it a certen authoritie by the whiche it séemeth conuenient that other men shoulde credite him wherfore we ought to be very gentle in spéeche and to reason always of good to reproue yong mē yet with a certain swéetnesse which may cause in them rather a loue of good an appetite of honour than a feare of paine or a dread of shame which we shal always wel inough do if we wil remember that we were once yong men our selues subiect to those willes that that age bringeth with it Soule Oh in how fewe reigneth of like age such discretion Soule Our talk must also be plesant but ciuilly and honestly fléeing alway to lament those incommodities that olde age bryngeth wyth hym and not to prayse more than nedes the tyme in the which we were yong men for in that age it being pleasaunt of it selfe a man taketh pleasure of euery thyng which seme much better than they do in olde age Iust Many times all olde men falleth into this errour Soule If we dyd otherwyse wée shoulde be eschewed of other and so lacke Companie which is one of the greatest pleasures that this age hath Which thing Tullie knowyng in hys booke of olde age sayth in the person of Cato the elder a will and desire to reason more than I was wont is increased in me Iust These things be very true Soule Yet thys is not inough for we must thinke there is an other life to the which we goe continually for in this we be as pilgrimes that haue no certain Citie and we be in an age that can not long be from death so as we muste studie to gaine some thing for that place where we must alway remaine Iust This is nothyng to my desire euery thing had gone wel if thou haddest not spoken of death Soule Wherfore cometh thys but that eyther thou art yet to muche gyuen to the worlde or that thou hopest not to goe to a better life The which shall not chaunce to thee if thou vnite thy self to me for I that am immortall shal shew thée that this that thou callest life is a shado◠of life yea rather a great and continual death Iust I can not tell I but it is sure a great thing to lose this being Soule Yea if it should be lost but it is not loste but rather woonne eyther a worse or a better and it is in oure power by the meane yet of the grace of God which gyueth to who so euer wil haue it and already hath shewed to vs by his great liberalitie the greatest parte in makyng vs to be borne in christian religion Iust It is true and by this that thou speakest dothe diminish a little the feare of it Soule Let them feare deathe that haue not the light of Faith for to vs Christians since our Sauior died for vs it is become but a slepe ▪ as he said of those dead that he raised that they were not dead but they slepte out of the which slepe we being awaked by his grace shal returne into a more frée being without any perturbation Iust Well go too then and be thou sure I will assuredly beleue thée Soul We then must do as that wise Merchant which going into a certain prouince to gaine and the time of his return to his contrey drawyng nigh doth dispose and order all his things then satisfie either with dedes or wordes all them that he thynketh be in any meane burdened by him that departing with good grace he may be after of euery man thankefully with more honor receiued in his countrey Iust This certainely dothe not displease me Soul We must therfore dispose that the substance whiche we haue in oure handes may come to them that they ought after oure separation that no contention bée for them whiche thou knowest to be great and troublesom but so as we do neuer lack that is necessary so take from them the loue that though we saw some not go wel it should not trouble vs thinking that those should go euil that were theirs and not oures For he that liueth in Riches with feare to lose them continually is poore Thē discoursing with memorie our life passed we shal séeke to satisfy al we haue offēded any way and as the good Mariner whē he draweth nigh the port we wil strike sail of our worldly operatiōs returne to God We wil leaue al study onely y ◠litle that this age wil beare we wil exercise in holy letters of the studie of the which shal grow in vs a liuely faith informed of charitie by whiche we shal loue God aboue al things and our neighbor as ourself with a certen hope of the merites of Christ that as sure of our helth without any perturbation we shall go to death Iust Al these things but one do plese me and that is y ◠calling again w t memory of y ◠life passed for in doing so I know y ◠we shal find to haue offended God so sore and so ofte that it will bring vs feare and not trust in death as thou sayest Soule This might well come vnto vs if Christ had not as he hath borne all our synnes vpon him and had not promised to pardō vs euery tyme that we returne to him and sayd vnto vs that he loueth vs much more than the carnall fathers do their sonnes Iust Wilt not thou that he shoulde be angrie with vs euery time we sin Soule When we sinne No but when we perseuer in sinne and wyll neuer acknowledge him for our God Yea tell me if a Grauer will not bée angrie séeing his pictures if they be not holden vp fal and euer go downe bycause hée made them of a matter which hath that inclination wouldest thou that God should be angrie wyth vs when we sinne whiche knoweth much better that he hathe made vs of this fleshe so much inclined prompte to sinne as we can not but
synne rather doing otherwise we should be no men But bicause he knoweth that to will and not to will is ours it suffiseth him after that we be sory so it be from the heart that we haue offended hym therfore let vs take héede that the sinne we doe do not rise in vs of malice but be of the infirmities and inclination of the flesh y â— returning after to him we may say for our excuse together with the Prophet Beholde â–ª in sinne I was conceiued And therto by my mothers fault receiued Wherfore he regarding our intention sayth of vs as he did of him I haue found a man according to my well Iust With what boldnesse shall we euer goe before his face hauing so oft offended him by our sinne and disobedience Soule With that with the which the sonne alwayes goeth to his father although he hath ben very disobedient it he will yelde himselfe in his faulte For although the father whiles he is absent and séeth him not waxeth cruel against him so sone as be séeth him turne again to him repente that he hath offended agaynst his will he féeles growing iâ— him by the meane of fatherly loue a pitie so swéete toward his sonne that although he force to shewe himselfe to be angry wyth hym yet he can not but wyll shewe some signe of loue to hys Sonne in his countenance and in the ende leaue his Ire and receiue him in the place of a sonne Hast thou not read in the Gospel of the Prodigal child the which being departed from his fathers cure and hauing done away al the part of his heritage which he had of hys father fell into great miserie and wante and remembring his fathers house determined to return thither who being come before his Father of two things that he thought to haue spoken he sayd but one that is that he had sinned before God him and that he asked pardon the other that he would haue sayd was that if he wold not receiue him for his sonne at leaste he would take hym for a seruant but he spake it not Iust And why Soule For so sodainly as he spake ther apéered in his fathers face so great a fatherly loue that he knew he would neuer suffer hym to be among his seruants whiles he stode vnder obedience of his father but would restore him to the degrée of his sonne wherfore he put him selfe liberally into hys armes leauing to him to thinke that that he wold doe Iust Thou dost comfort me and encorage me my soule with these thy considerations that I wil not say I desyre death but I may well say that I haue not so great feare of it as I had Soule The more thou shalte remember thou haste euery houre folowed thy senses I folowing thée coÌ„mitted greater errors the more shal we be afraid of our selues as he y â— knoweth the more infirmities he hath with so much more spéede and care he runs to the phisitian so with sinceritie shal we run to Christ that can only heale vs and remeÌ„bring that he that hath suffred for vs is our aduocate and he that shall iudge vs we shal haue no feare at all of our condemnation being for all that in continuall fear and in great care as much as lyeth in our power no more to offende Iust Thou haste giuen me this morning my Soule so great comfort that where before there was nothing that more troubled me than death nowe I haue none other feare but that myne vnperfect nature can not flée the whych forcing me from henceforth not to dissent from thy commaundements I wil submit me to thy yoke and will accorde me to all that thou shalte counsell me thinking that that must be my health Soule That is it that I desire aboue al thing and in this good purpose I wil that thou ryse and goe to thy worke for the Sunne is now a good heighth The .viij. Reasoning SOLVE IVST WHat aylest thou Iust this night that thou sléepest not what meaneth it that thou turnest so ofte in thy bed and rest not thou art well inough and I trouble thée not we being thys good while so wel agréed togither Iust Although I féele none euill and thou my soule doest not trouble â—e yet haue I other cares that suffer me not to sléepe Soule What cares can they be tell me séeing we be agréed tell me what it is thaÌ„ked be the libertie the strength that God hath giuen vs that can hurte vs but only he or who can worke such griefe or payne as may take vs from our good purpose Iust Who they that worke woe to euery man the World and Fortune Soule The World Fortune giue annoyance onely to them that can not guyde their owne lyfe for they eyther be of such sorte as they may be auoyded or no. And those that may be auoyded the wise man shifts away with his wisdome and of the other foreséeing what they be he is not grieued Iust These be things easy to be spoken but to doe them more is required than words tel me how can a man flée Enuie which is euer borne against good men of the which ryseth euery day a thousand things displeasant Soule Doth Enuie anoy thée and is it that that makes thou canst not sléepe Iust It is for since by thy counsel I haue brought my selfe to this mery and quiet lyfe such Enuie hath ben borne me that I can not endure One sayth what thinketh he he is is he any better thaÌ„ a Couper An other sayth I esteme no man and nothing can please me An other sayth I thinke my selfe too wyse and that I wyll reproue euery man and in effect I am so enuied that euery man is a griefe vnto me that I can abide in no place Soule Thou art fallen into a talke wherin before this time I haue wished to deale wyth thée to delyuer thée of this thy false opinion for I perceyued well thou wert awry but nowe I wyll that we tell truth not one to deceyue an other willing it to be vnderstode that we haue done for the coÌ„moditie of other that which we haue done for our selues And I will not doe now as our neyghboure didde whych after he was broken being reprehended of some of his creditours that he spente too much he woulde make them beleue he dydde it for theyr sakes that he myght be in health and able to pay them for he that is deceiued of himselfe shal easely be deceiued of other Iust I doe not desire other thing but that thou wouldst tell me truth as I am disposed to doe to thée Soule What Enuie is it that thou sayst is borne thée Iust What enuy haue I not tolde thée that it séemeth that euery one a whyle since doe disprayse me and say euyll of me and doe not estéeme me as they wer wont This can not be other wyse but for the enuie they
also writen but not so perfectly saith that if death had not preuented his honest trauailes he should not haue neded to haue taken this paine Manetto being a man mete to bring a greater thing to perfection than that Iust Surely this was a way and a scuse in reprouyng of hys opinion much to be commended Soule Thou must also when thou reprouest any man do it gently and aboue all be sure neuer to reproue any of them y â— be more cuÌ„ning thaÌ„ thy self for doing otherwise thou shalte many tymes heare that thou wouldest not As it hapt to Francis kyng of France when he was in Bononia with Pope Leo whome reprouing for hys sumptuousnesse and saying the ancient Byshops lyued in more simplicitie and pouertie Leo answered that was when Kyngs kepte shéepe And the Kyng replying that hée spake of Bishops of the new testament and nor of the old Leo againe answered that was when kyngs gouerned the poore in hospitalles with their owne hands meaning sainct Lewes his predecessour Iust Surely none other answere was conuenient Soule TheÌ„ thou must always speke honourably of them and when it is tolde thée that any speaketh euill of thée then do thou speake wel of them excusyng them saying y â— they doe not knowe thée that so saye of thée and therfore do not deserue to be blamed And if thys will not helpe with them whyche absolutely will helpe for to heare that one sayeth well although thou knowest he sayth false it delites thée it shall helpe in the sight of the vniuersall whiche hearyng that thou sayest well of them that speake euyll of thée they wyll thinke thée a man of a good mynde and then studie to mayntayne thys good opynion wyth good behauiour and if thou wouldest nedes be reuenged of theÌ„ whom thou thinkest to be thine enâ—imies this is the best waye bicause as Diogenes sayd the true way of reuengemente with thy enimies is to become from time to time better Iust These thy counsels although they be contrary to the coÌ„mon way of life yet they please me muche Soule Canst not thou being a christian man be coÌ„tent to do it for euery man as a man ought to do it yea I wil further that thou loue thine enimies for in this onely consisteth the perfection of our lawe and in this it passeth in goodnesse all other for wher the other graunt a man may doe iniury to him that doth it to thée our law desiring to make man good will not only thou pardon thine enimies but also thou loue them Iust O how can a man do that thou hast told me that he that doth thée iniurie thou hatest Soule An enimie may be loued not for hym selfe but for others cause in such sort as thou louest the childreÌ„ or seruaÌ„ts of thy great friend although they haue done thée iniurie For thou considering that thy neighbor is also the sonne of God as well as thou and bought with the same price that thou wert although he be thy enimie thou mayste loue hym for Gods sake for doing otherwyse thou shouldest lose Paradise Iust Howe shoulde I lose it is it mine Soule Thine yea and who douteth that is a christen man Iust Which way Soule Tell me when doeth the inheritance of the father come to the sonnes Iust So soone as he dieth Soule Then Paradise was oures as soone as Christ died for vs if that reason were good But â–ª thou hast not sayd wel in that y â— the heritage of a father is his sonnes as soone as he is borne and that none other thing doeth make him heire but being a sonne nor that the father seeketh for other thing to haue children but to haue to whome to leaue his inheritaÌ„ce And so we as soone as we be borne the sonnes of God and brethren of Christe by baptisme and faithe we be ioyntely heires wyth hym of the Kyngdome of Heauen And by this cause a babe that sodainely dieth so soone as he is baptised goeth to Paradise whiche is his onely bycause he is the sonne of God and not by any other merite he neuer hauing done any meritorious déede Iust If Paradise be ours what néede we then doo any good Soule Yes it is necessarie not to gayne the heritage of Heauen which is oures by the merites of Christ as I haue sayde but bycause that wée shoulde not gyue an occasion to our Father of Heauen to disenherite vs as all children doe which behaue theÌ„selues euill toward theyr fathers Therfore a man must do good workes onely to the glorie and honor of God folowing Christ which wrought wel whiles he was in this world onely to do the will of his father so ought we to worke wel to do his will and not to degenerate and want of that is coÌ„uenient wée beyng children of a father so good so liberall and so gentle but not gaine by them Paradise for it is not conuenient that oure workes which be temporall and haue ende shoulde haue for rewarde the glory of heauen which is eterne and infinite and it is not inough not to doe euill but thou must doe well for he that is not with hym is agaynst hym and besides sheweth hym selfe vnkinde of so great liberalitie which God hathe shewed towarde vs. Iust Thou haste thys mornyng my soule kindeled in my hearte suche a loue towarde my creator that I am sory I euer dydde thyng that myght displease hym seing he hath ben so liberall and so gentle towarde me Soule This is it that I desire aboue all other thyngs for thys shall make thée worke as it behoueth a free child and not as a seruaunt for scare and in this good purpose I will that to the honoure and glorye of hym wée make an ende of this mornyngs talke The .ix. Reasoning IVST SOVLE IN déede Prouerbes bée all proued this olde age as we saye all day by prouerbe comes with euery euyll amendes for she doth depriue vs not onely of delyghtes for an olde man is wearie and yrketh al pleasure and pastyme but also doeth take away a mans slepe as it hath done with me whiche in beste parte of the nyghte when other men slepe I do nothyng but turne me hyther and thyther werying my bones in suche sorte that when I rise me thynkes in stede of repose I haue felte a greate trauaile And I thinke thys hapneth vnto me bycause my natural heate is so wekened for lacke of good moysture wherof it was nourished that it hath not so much strength as it can send vp to the heade such exhalations and vapours the whyche beyng after made thicke wyth the coldenesse of the brayne fal downe again and filling those places where the spirites passe whych goe from the hearte to the heade doe gender sléepe And thoughe it sende some thyther they be so vndigested and impure that by the coldenesse of the braine they be turned into grosse matter and in chaunge of sléepe they bréede in mée catarres
â—â—eumes or other lyke thyngs and so in steéede of slepe I lye wyth euyl contentation spitting and coughing all the nyghte as cursed be the yeares and the tyme that be occasions of it Soule Iust Iust what a fondenesse is thys Doest thou suffer thy reason so to be shadowed wyth Irethat thou cursest yeares and tyme on this fashion Iust Who would not curse when they make thyngs olde Olde Age beyng nothyng else but a receptacle of troubles and griefes and a priuation of all pleasures whiche is worse and a short way that leades al thyngs to corruption Soule Howe many tymes haue I sayde that all ages be good to hym that can vse them as is conueniente but we vse them so many tymes that when we shoulde blame our selues we doe complayne of other and moste tymes wrongfullye as thou doest nowe of olde Age muche lamenting she will not lette thée slepe whereof thou oughtest to thynke thy selfe muche bounde Iust Why so my soule thou wilt make mée thynke that thou arte not the same thyng that I am as I dydde beleue since thou sayest I am bound to that that kepes me from rest Soule Sléepe is a priuation of the most part of our exercises and particularly of all plesures and delights Iust Rather it is a lightning of all our cares and a most swete repose to all our troubles Soule That is true but that makes not agaynste my sentence and lesse proueth that sléepe shall be good for firste to mée it is euill takyng from me the power of contemplation and to consider the nature of thyngs occupying all those partes that be necessarye to mée to vse in that office whiche grieueth me not a little for I am not wearie nor suffer paine of my woorkes but rather the more I worke the greater delite I haue bicause I am not corporall nor made of matter as thou arte which should cause me any trouble in making resistance to my operations Iust How art not thou wearye as well as I which as ofte as I haue gone about to reade at night after supper haste caused a sléepe to come vpon me that I must néedes goe to bed and leaue reading Soule Ah Iust it is not I that hath bene weary but these thy instruments without the which I can not vnderstande any thing being shutte wythin thée haue bene so wearyed consuming too muche of those spirites by y e meane whereof they doe their operations that it hath ben conuenient for vs to repose vs to thée by nature and to me by respect that I am in thée Iust I know not this but I sée that thou hast as well slept as I. Soule I will not haue thée say so for I haue bene euer awaked in suche maner as I can Bicause sléepe I not being corporall hathe no place in me and that this is true thou knowest that he that sléepes doth nothing but I faile not to worke some way Iust What operations be they that thou doest when I sléepe Soule First I attende with my encreasing power to make digestyon muche better than when thou arte awake for not hauing the heart to sende the spirits to the senses that they might doe their office he sendes them to the partes where digestion is made and so I attende continuallye wyth greater force to turne the nutriments into thy substaunce Iust Oh am not I also appertaining to doe this operation Soule Yes as occasion wythout the which it can not be done and as a pacient but not as an agent and principall for thou knowest wel that I haue tolde thée that neither of vs can worke without the other Although I acknowledge my selfe so noble that I thinke I coulde vnderstande some thing without thée Goe then further to my power sensitiue which thoughe some of them be bound with sléepe as the outwarde senses and the sense common bicause those places where they be exercised be full of fumositie so as they doe not wake till they be consumed of heate naturall and fansie neuer ceaseth to doe somewhat wherefore regarding to those visions and images of things that haue impressed the senses in the heart or in the bloud windy whiles they were awake doeth cause Dreames and so that is also neuer idle Iust What there be some that dreames not and some that dreames fearefull things and inordinate in suche sorte as thou arte little bounde vnto them Soule Very fewe Iust Be those men that dreames not sometime at least when they be olde if not afore for not to dreame commeth of too moist a complexion the which filleth the head with suche fumositie that they trouble it and doe not suffer those Images that are sene in sléepe to gather whereof it comes as of a stone caste after an other in a firme water making those circles and images that the first had made And therefore children and suche as goe to sléepe as sone as they haue eate and dronke doe seldome dreame But thou shalt sée them after in their age when this moisture is dried vp dreame somtime of feareful dreames whereof thou speakest Euill complexion is likewise the cause which being distempered either of some infirmitie or of too much drink or of some melancholie or straunge thought genders spirites in the which the things be imprest that men dreame so confused and disordinate as they bring forthe suche monstrous apparitions as thou speakest of But what can be said worse of slepe if it priuing you of al pleasures doe not suffer you to féele any thyng at all Iust If a man whiles he sléepeth féeleth no pleasures he féeleth also no displeasures of the which I knowe not which he more and greater Soule I know well there haue bene some of so timorous minde that estéeming more euery little dolor than euery great contentation haue sayd that sléepe is one of the best and acceptable giftes that nature hath giuen to man bicause it maketh all equall and alike whiles they sléepe for féeling nothing the poore is as happy as the rich whiles he sléepeth the which opinion I neuer alowed For if it were so it were better to be a stone or a trée which féele not than to be a beast or a man and among beastes and men he that euer sléepeth or the most parte of time shold be more happy than the other Which thing is most false for sléepe maketh vs like to deade men which some other considering called it Deathes brother Iust Why doe they call it so they can not make it euill Doe we not sée two brethren the one good and the other naught thou hast red with me in the Bible the story of Esau and Iacob Soule Yea but he that hath called it deathes brother hath not considered it as a brother by generation but by similitude which it hath depriuing you as it doth of all your operations felicities and contentations which consisteth in operation Wherefore God bicause he can euer vnderstand himselfe and not sometime yea and
in any age though not all yet in part according to reason not being possible but he that is a man must erre somtime so the errors he make be comportable he is excused of the most parte of men that age after of hir selfe bringeth him such authoritie and reputatatiō that he is honored of euery one and the first place giuen him in euery assembly And to this is memory also ioyned and remembraunce y t he hath liued ciuilly and like an honest man which thing is more worthe than all the pleasures of any age Iust Wel I wil proue thy opinion in this for I know the plesure I haue had some time when I haue séene my selfe honored for mine age sake But to the other that more importeth thā all the rest what sayest thou Soule What is that Iust That we be nigh death Soule It is true that the terme and ende of olde age is death where naturally to the other ages it haps not so the ende of childhode is youth the end of youth middle age the ende of middle age olde age Neuerthelesse there is none of all these ages can promise them selues life one pore day Rather be they more as I saide vnto thée that die in the other ages than they that be olde bicause of the multitude of great perrils that doe chaunce in life Iust Then an olde man is certain to die and soone where a yong man may at least hope to be olde Soule The olde man hath possessed that the yong hopeth for Iust What helpes to haue lyued seing tyme past is not Soule That that makes y e hope of the time to come whiche is to come but what is .xv. or .xx. yeres more or lesse seing we must nedes die nothyng remaining vnto vs of things gotten in time but onely the acts of vertue Iust What is xv or .xx. yere O my soule thou she west to haue tasted but a little howe pleasant thyng it is to lyue Soule Thou séemest not to know for if thou haddest consydered well the thyngs that haps in euery age thou shouldest finde there be many more that it displeaseth than pleaseth and that a man muste striue with so many things as our life hath bene well heretofore called a continuall warfare But let vs goe further Iust If death be to be feared they ought onely to feare that by death thinke they shall cease to be which is desired and loued so much of all creatures or to them that doubt to go to worse neyther of the which ought to be in thee thou being a christian man Iust And what certaintie haue I not to lose my being vtterly when I shall die Soule None of thy selfe thou canst not thinke otherwise beyng by thy propre nature mortal and seyng that all other things lyke vnto thée muste decay and die but I say vnto thee that whē that time determined shal come appointed by God I that am immortall shal be revnited with thée wherby thou shalt rise with me by y ◠grace of the immortal God voide of trouble and clere from all qualitie that now causeth thée to chaunge euery day to an other which in the end shall cause me to be separate from thée whereof shall come thy death Iust What certaintie haste thou of this Soule That that excéedeth and passeth all other the light of faith Iust And that light thou speakest of passeth the certaintie of things by meane of science I haue heard say that science is nothing but a certaintie Soule It passeth farre for sciences be the inuentions of men which may erre rather it neuer doeth thing but there is founde in it some imperfection and the light of truth commeth or God which is the high and vnspeakeable veritie But I wil not bring thée more reasons for this we hauing so many times red together that diuine treatise that Ierome made intituled the Triumphe of Faith where is proued of him all this that I haue said so as he that hathe redde and doeth not beléeue may say either he vnderstandes not or else is obstinate in his opinion Therefore lament no more Iust that thou arte olde for feare of short life for if we be nigh deathe we be nighe the ende of our Pilgrimage at the terme to arriue in our countrey and porte of our saluation Iust I haue many times heard this that we heere be Pilgrimes and that this is not our Countrey and yet it séemes very harde to me to thinke I shall departe Soule This is full well knowen to me for the ende which I shew thée and to the which thou arte ordained by my occasion doth passe and excéede thy nature But suffer thy selfe to be guided of me and let vs dispose all our businesse that when it shal please him that gouernes all things to loose this bande let it grieue thée as little as may be hauing a sure hope to be vnited wyth me againe in a farre better state and I reioyce to returne to my maker Therfore complaine no more Iust of thy age for none of these causes wherefore thou blamest hir hath place in vs bycause we be sure as I haue sayd to go to a better life Iust Well I will do all thou sayst and in all things put my selfe to thy will without makyng any more accompte of my will for I thinke that we hauing so long ben together thou hast ought me so great loue that thou wouldest not counsell me but to my good Soule Now it séemes thou knowest thy weale for of our discorde should come the euil of both vs. Therfore let vs apply to liue together in the loue of God and lette vs euer hold before our eyes these three things The first that God was made man to aduance the nature of man to thys dignitie that mā might be made God The second that he hath bene willing to dye to satisfie and pay the pain of our debtes we not being apt nor sufficient to do it being made his enimies through the fault of our first father The third is that we be mortall wherefore the two first like to spurres of loue doe make vs to goe chearefully to the vttermost of our power throughe his most holy law for he should be very hard that would not be kindled with the loue of Christ Iesu our sauiour if he consider he was made man for vs and after died for our sinnes The thirde shall be a bridle of feare that shall not suffer vs to goe from his will And though by the infirmitie of nature we commit sometime some fault it will make vs straight tourne to him and humbly aske him pardon For they only be blessed whose sinns as Dauid saith be remitted of him Iust How shal we be heard of him I remember I haue red in the scripture God heareth not the voyce of a sinner Soule We shall no longer be sinners as ofte as we shall tourne to God and run to him with true faith seing sinne