till this upstart Faction spread it selfe abroad like an infectious cloud for if in all this time there were no Church then could Christ be no Head without a body nor no Husband without a Spouse nor a Saviour without a people saved Answ. All formes differing from the light of Christ are in Babylon darknesse and distraction and the true Church is in God 1 Thess. 1. 1. Such onely are out of Babylon who are gathered out of the world by the spiritual light of Christ and there it hath been ever since his passion and he hath never been without though but in a small number which he hath saved which the world hated and scornfully miscall'd and into Prisons and corners have they been driven all this time of the man of Sinne and his Papal Priesthood but now he is come who is spreading his truth and multiplying his seed as a cloud to the Egyptians wherefore the Heathen rage exceedingly But it seems by the Query that thou ownest the Church all along since the Apostles to have been in the multitude of the Popish Priests rather then in the Martyrs seeing thou speakest so scornfully of a small number to be the Church of Christ who are so contemptible which the Church ever was and so it is at this day Luke 12. 32. Mat. 7. 14. Mat. 20. 16. Reply 9 10. Now I beleeve you speak truth as that all Formes differing from Christ and so yours among the rest are of Babylon and under the destruction thereof not but that there may be difference in circumstance and yet a concurrence in substance as there was in the Primitive times even amongst the very chiefe of the Apostles and though there be some difference in part of opinion yet may those so different be Christians still but not so if like you they erre in the main And what you tel me here is nothing but what I knew before ever I heard of you and is nothing to the thing required at all for we know and are sure that there now is and ever hath been a Church on earth as also was that of the Thessalonians as well as other Churches which is evidently declared in many places And what I queried was concerning a visible Church not of an in visible Church of which you speak nothing at all and in that you grant that Christ had ever a Church since his passion you also grant your selves to be none of his Church you being never heard of until of late years unless in the days of holy Moses but if you follow their wayes be careful of their end And for what you further adde it is nothing but of words without proofe and the Pope calls them that dye for the testimony of his Apostacy Martyrs which are rather malefactors and for them who are Martyrs indeed they dyed for the testimony of that Religion Doctrine and Ordinances which we professe and you now oppose and like the Heathen rage exceedingly against the Ministers and professors thereof who are so contemptible in your eyes and others of your society as to be railed against with the unchristianlike termes of dumb dogs serpents sons of perdition instruments and children of the Devil and the like and if this be the language of the spirit of God what then is the speech of Satan Qu. 11. Whether you own the Resurrection of the body after death if not of what doth and shall Christs Kingdome consist for he can be no King without his subjects Answ. I say yea the Resurrection I own according to the Scriptures Rep. 11. This is no satisfactory Answer in general unless you do descend unto particulars for I know not whether you doe mean according to the sense you wrest it unto and so by such subtilty smother perhaps heresie in privacy for some of your Fraternity have affirmed to me that there is no other Resurrection spoken of in Scripture but in this life as from the death of the first Adams fin unto the life of the second Adams righteousnesse contrary to the true me aning and so not according to the Scriptures which usually speaks of a resurrection from the dead after a dissolution of the body therefore speak out your meaning plainly Qu. 12. Whether you acknowledge the Trinity of the persons in the Godhead the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost one substance but three in subsistence or manner of beings Answ. For the word Trinity thou mayst send it to Rome from whence it came but God the Father the Sonne and the Holy Ghost and that these three are one I know and acknowledge according to the Scriptures 1 John 5. 7. Reply 12. Now O subtil Deceiver yet simple Etymologer doth not thy pen here stink with the tinkture of ancient Hereticks whom you here imitate in that you say that the word Trinity came from Rome in a derision of it I shall not stand to dispute it as a Controversie because perhaps you brought it thence with most if not all of your Tenets but this I know it was a word long time used and never disallowed that I know of by any unlesse erroneous Hereticks for the Latines have it as well as the English thus Trinitas as we Trinity both signifying three in one and so agreeable unto Scripture But O wretched imitator of Hereticks who with thy self hath stumbled at this word Michael Servetus that heretical blasphemer compared the Trinity unto Cerberus the Porter of Hell-gate and Arius that notable Heretick counted the word Trinity a Fiction and a laughing-stock whose end was as wretched as his life was wicked for in easing himselfe of natures courses he disburdened himselfe of his bowels and the same opinion is now upheld by his Successor Biddle a man no lesse obstinate then erroneous The Turkish Mabomet and Sabellio likewise held the word Trinity in derision as doe you and many more of your Society and I fear in many more of your Tenets concurre with them Qu. Whether Jesus the Son of Mary incarnated in the flesh Godman in one person who dyed at Jerusalem upon the Crosse rose from the death to life the third day and ascended on high into the highest heavens and sitteth on the right hand of God be the true Messias that you own and say is within you Answ. Jesus the Sonne of God and Eternal Word which came downe from God became flesh borne of the Virgin God and man who dyed at Jerusalem rose againe ascended and sitteth at the right hand of the Father the true Messias which Christ we own to be within us which no carnal minde which denies his light can comprehend and Christ in you except ye be Reprobates 1 Cor. 10. 4. Reply 13. This is in some sort more then any of the rest satisfactory but that the true Messias is within you I have not faith to beleeve it because I see such opposite actings to him or any thing of his spirit That I apprehend them rather
congruant to Antichrist then the true Messias And as no natural minde that either denies the true light or sets up a new light in its stead cannot apprehend these things so neither can they in that state distinguish between the spirit of Christ and that of Antichrist And this inded is the reason why you and your Society are so deluded and take that for the true Messias which is rather something crying crying Loe here and loe there is Christ in you which is onely the spirit of delusion and the rather I beleeve it because it so much opposeth Christ Jesus the true Messias in his Institutions And for what you adde further the Text I have cleared elsewhere already Qu. 14. Whether the soul of man be mortal or immortal if mortal for what then did Chr. Jesus suffer to purchase eternal glory And what profiteth holiness in life If immortal where then shall it abide after death since you say there is noheaven nor hell but in a mans conscience Answ. The first part of this Quere I answer the soul is immortal but the latter part being made up of a lye I returne it back into thy Fathers bottle from whence it came till thou hast prov'd that ever I said there is no Heaven nor Hell but in a mans Conscience Reply 14. Since it is usual with thee O secret deceit to speak that in one breath which thou wilt deny in another I wonder the lesse to see you stil uphold your lying practice else you might remember the superscription of my Queries were thus For the Speakers plurully not for you their Speaker singularly of that Society called Quakers neither did I know who was to speak at that time when I brought them with me whether you or another yet resolved to deliver them to him I should there finde when probability gave me good reason to expect Hoberthorn rather then your self to exercise there at that time because he was there the Lords day then last past and I think not before and then durst not own his own name and practices And though I confesse I cannot prove it against you in particular though perhaps others may yet is it commonly known to be the opinion of the Quaking Faction and so of them to whom my Queries were directed and therefore you here lay under the guilt of a two fold lye First in denying that which is truth to wit that it is not the doctrine of your Fraternity that there is neither heaven nor hell but in a mans conscience pure Familists Secondly in giving me the lye when I spoke the truth but I see you bear in minde your old profession your bottle and so your plow though you have now changed it for a lesse laborious yet diabolical employment somention of Heresie Qu. 15. If you are perfectly free from sinne as you assert you are what then is the sting of death or are you in the flesh immortal on earth Answ. The former part of this Query I returne thee back with the latter part of thy foregoing being both of one root but to the latter part I answer where the new birth is witnessed which is not of corruptible seed but incorruptible partakers of the Divine Nature the life of Christ made manifest in mortal flesh and where life and immortality is brought to light there the sting of death is seen to be abolisht on earth but this Cain's generation knows not where death reignes and therefore would murder such as are translated from death to life Reply 15. Now O incomparable hypocritical lyar let us try the contest whether you or I in this be the lyar nay let thy own writings decide the controversie which thus asse rts expressely them who say they have faith and yet their life is not the life of Christ and say they cannot be saved from their sinnes in this world but in part Them and their Faith we deny and as I told you in publick dispute so say I now againe if this be not perfect perfection what is or was the life of Christ imperfect And is not perfect purity from sinne perfect perfection in righteousnesse But you then reply'd though I denyed it in others said you yet thou liest plaine English to say I own it in my selfe but if it be not hypocrisie to disown that in another to wit imperfection if thou thy selfe are not perfect and is not this the Character Paul gives of a false Prophet Teaching lies saith he in hypocrisie But let us see if you lye not here againe for you further adde in the same page speaking of that light in every man this light we beleeve and follow observe that and by this light are led out of all the wayes works and worships of this dark world and if this be not perfect perfection then is light darknesse so that it is proved not onely to be taught and upheld by your society which had been sufficient but also by you in particular so that here you lie under the guilt of a double lye againe as before and that others of your Society have taught and upheld the same I need not stand to repeat it being so clearly proved against you and Hoberthorn affirmed the same the Lords day before I delivered my Queries in Now my Querie being thus justified it rests wholly unanswered in the least and therefore your pretended answer might be justly cast by without any further reply but out of charity take this as an almes not a debt that the former part of my last Query and the latter part of this are both of one root I acknowledge to wit the false doctrines of your spirit which how infallible soever is a lying one And here you againe abuse the Text for that incorruption is not to be put on till this corruption shall be put off by a dissolution of the body till when the sting of death remaines which is sinne but then when by a natural death as due for the disobedience of the first Adam we shall rise againe to incorruption and life everlasting as due for the meritorious obedience of the second and when the last enemy death shall be destroyed then O Death where is thy sting and O Grave where is thy victory but not before and therefore all that you seem to heap up as a mountaine is nothing pertinent to the thing required for if the sting of death were wholly abolished then death could have no power on us and this were terestrial and present immortality the enjoyment whereof is not till having put off this corruptible by death we shall have put on incorruption which is not earthly as you pretend to say it is in this life but heavenly and in another so that you know neither how nor where death reignes nor where or when it reignes not and though I question not but you have Cain's malice yet blessed be God if you had also his might you could not so far reach as to murder them
that are translated from the death of sinne and condemnation through a dissolution of the body by a natural death unto everlasting life and salvation for there is and ever will be a gulfe betweene you and your Captain General and their eternal habitation Qu. 16. And if you have no sinne to what end is Christ beneficial as an Advocate Intercessor and Mediator or is he no such Answ. 16. Christ that gives a man a light to see his sinne who redeems and cleanseth him from sinne is of use to us and all that knowes him as the Mediator and of use to keep his from the wicked one and that he toucheth them not 1 John 5. 18. And the same who sets free from sinne is he that keeps free from sinne and this benefit we have by him as Advocate Intercessor and Mediator Ephes. 16. 17. Reply 16. And here O secret Deceiver you grant what you so lately denied for if you had not owned perfect and present perfection this Query had been void and not to have been answered and therefore in answering it without any exception or caution in the least you grant the subject perfect perfection and to this alludes the whole drift of your Answer namely to justifie what you before denied even perfect purity or perfection and so endeavour to ordaine Christ a new matter and manner of officiating as Advocate Intercessor and Mediator and that Christ gives a man that beleeves in him light to see his sin I own and witnesse and therefore you knowing not your sins it is unto me an evident manifestation that you have not the true light of Jesus Christ but to particulars Intercession is a passing between or being surety to undertake to satisfie for ones debt now if you acknowledge no debt due for sinne what need have you of a surety is he not uselesse unto you in this respect And a Mediator is one that goeth betwixt or withstandeth a matter that it goeth not forwards that is betwixt us and Gods wrath against us for sinne and how can he withstand that which is not And if there be no sinne what need is there of an Advocate to plead for us will not innocency acquit it selfe But if any man sinne not else we have an Advocate with God the Father Jesus Christ the reghteous and he is the propitiation for our sinnes that is a Sacrifice for to appease Gods anger for so the word signifies kindled by our sinnes and quenched by his blood for without blood is no Sacrifice made Now if we have no sinne there can be no wrath unlesse God can be unjust which is impossible and therefore there needs no appeasment where there is no anger And thus if you have no sinne is Christ uselesse as a Mediator and Advocate for sin So this Query rests unanswered also Qu. 17. And if you are perfect in purity what is the cause you are not also perfect in glory Answ. 17. Perfect glory is perfect purity and every one according to their measures are glorified therewith but this world knows not whose glory fadeth neither can they judge of it with their impure spirit 2 Cor. 3. 18. And of this glory all the Saints have a measure in this life but the world hates it Reply 17. Here you also grant againe that which before you denied to wit perfect purity that you in no wise here deny but rather justifie the present enjoyment of it but if you are now perfect in purity and glory is there not yet a greater and more sublime perfection of both to be expected by the faithful and if there be is not this you now pretend to enjoy imperfect by reason of that which excelleth and if there be not what then is Scripture untrue and is not this an alluding unto an immediate enjoyment of heaven upon earth and if so then that which you before denied is here also confessed concerning heaven upon earth and if this be perfection then I am sure that as is the world so is thy spirit ignorant of that which indeed is perfect and true perfection which no carnal or apostatiz'd eye can see unto for it is spiritually discerned Qu. 18. And if you disown method in teaching I Quere whether you have any command against it and whether you esteeme confusion better then uniformity Answ. 18. That method and teaching which is out of the doctrine of Christ which is in the wisedome of man and in the wisedome of words of mans wisedome out of the unity of the light of Christ and his Spirit this we see to be confusion and not uniformity and against it we have a command which was judged with the spirit of the Apostles so do we 1 Cor. 2. Reply 18. This pretended titular answer savours so much either of ignorant folly or of sophistical deceit is so far exorbitant from the thing required that it rather deserves to be laugh'd at then in the least to be reply'd unto Qu. 19. Whether ever intentively the Gospel was promised to be made known or practically that it was made known without the means to wiâ— the Ministration of man if not why then doe you resist it Ans. 19. The Gospel was made known and promised intentively and practically to the servants and children of God without the ministration of man as to Adam Enoch Noah Abraham Isay and all the Prophets John Baptist Simeon the Shepherds Paul and divers others and the same he doth at this day and none can limit him nor doe I resist what meanes he uses but such as resist his works deny his light and would limit him Gen. 3. 15. Gen. 9 9. Gen. 17. 7 Luke 3. 20. Luke 2. 10. Gal. 1. 11 12. Reply 19. O blind Sophister could probability have rendred such absurdity as possible to be in any especially one so much pretending peculiar and sacred knowledge as to bring the meanes as a testimony against it selfe as you doe and as absurd would it be to imagine that any should preach the Gospel of Christ as from themselves though I dare presume to say you doe for then would it be of man not of God And I meane thus whether ever God by promise or by practice intended or did make publick his Gospel but by the use of the meanes to wit man which it could not be but it must be first reveal'd to man and so be by man but not of man as you falsly affirm it is which meanes was Enoch who preached the Gospel in publick which had been revealed unto him in private and Noah the eighth person was a Preacher of righteousnesse and so was Isay insomuch that I have heard it made a question whether he were most properly a Prophet or an Evangelist and so were the rest of the Prophets Preachers of the same Gospel and therein were those meanes which you seem to deny and the like was John the Baptist a Preacher of the Gospel and therefore a meanes and a Minister of