repent And how many such sinnes are there and which In one place you name two Obstinate and wilfull Apostasie and blasphemie against the holy Ghost after them you adde there c. Therefore looking in other places which be those caetera I finde where you name a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 Contempt of all that preach Christ and repentance of our lothsome life past and saye then the which no vice is more mortall nor farther from forgiuenes In another place you name Saule 1. Sam. 16. for whom Samuel was not heard when he prayed and the obstinate Iewes Ier. 7.11.14 Ezech. 14. for whom Ieremy is often times forbidden to pray and the wicked generally because the Lorde testifieth that if Noah Daniel Iob prayed for them they shuld not be heard And you conclude therevpon Therefore there be sinnes for the which the Church ought not to pray and though she should pray yet she should not be heard euen of men remayning in this life Whereby it appeareth that in summe you say that it is vnlawfull to pray for any wicked person of what sorte soeuer his wickednes be so long as he continueth in his wickednes yea and that a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 it is vnpossible for the wicked but to continue in his wickednes Such holsome doctrine you teach and that so often and so constantly yea also abusing the holy Scriptures for the same not onely in those places before noted 1. Ioan. 5. Mat. 12. Heb. 6. but also thrée places more There is a sinne vnto death for which we ought not to pray and He which sinneth against the holy Ghost shall neuer be forgiuen whosoeuer prayeth for him and There be some which sinne so horribly in this life that it is vnpossible for them to be renewed by repentance We were wont to matche you with your fathers the Nouatians Another old Heresie of the Protestants for denying the authoritie of Priestes to remit eyther all sinnes or some certaine sinnes and reseruing it to God alone But now when you say that some sinnes neither by the mercy of God are pardonable we must néedes confesse that you haue outshot them and therefore wonne the game from them What Acesius a Bishop of the Nouatians said to Constantinus the Emperour in the Nicen Councell yéelding the reason of their Schisme you may sée in Socrates who as a fautor of the Nouatians doth report it for their prayse Soc. li. 1. ca. 7.9 That they who after Baptisme fall into that kind of sinne which the holy Scriptures call Peccatum ad mortem Sinne vnto death ought not to be admitted to receiue the Diuine mysteries as other sinners customably were and are admitted after confession and the Priestes absolution but to exhort them to repentaunce or penance and that they looke for hope of forgiuenes not of the Priestes but of god who both can hath authoritie to forgiue sinnes But with you it is vnlawfull as to pray for them so also to exhort them to repentāce hope of forgiuenes at Gods hands Wel it is inough for a Christian man that it is the heresie of the Nouatians which you hold yea a maiori also and that the Catholike Church did then also practise as now The Protestāts also admit al to their Caluines bread by her Priestes to forgeue all sinnes without any such exception and so to admit all to our Lordes Body Yet for more comfort against all desperation I will answere to your places particularly 1. Ioan. 5. I say therefore that Sinne vnto death for the which S. Iohn saith not as you make him but onely thus Non pro illo dico vt roget quis I bidde not any man to pray for that is when one is dead in Mortall sinne and therefore now damned in hell which I shewed cap. 8. pag. 134. out of the text it selfe If that be not inough with you because you say Pur. 273.274 It is a new exposition and not onely voyde of all auncient authoritie but also hath all the olde writers against it and yet you do not nor can not alleage so much as one I say further Au. in r. 19. de Cor. gra ca. 12. it is S. Augustines exposition in diuers places and namely in his Retractatiōs which is much to be noted where to take away occasions from such Nouatians hauing aforetime written that he thought Peccatum fratris ad mortem The brothers sinne vnto death to be oppugning of the Brotherhood and enuying at grace it selfe he sayth Addendum fuit Si in hac scelerata mentis peruersitate finierit hanc vitam It should haue bene added therevnto If in this wicked peruersenes of minde he finish this life quoniam de quocunque pessimo in hac vita constituto non est vbique desperandum For because no man be he neuer so wicked is to be despeired of so long as he is in this life Nec pro illo inprudenter oratur de quo non desperatur Neither is it vndiscretely done to praye for him who is not despeired of Which is all one almost word for word also with that which D. Allen saith Pur. 274. and you gainesay where you say twise I deny your antecedent Heb. 6.10 Of S. Paules place also I gaue the right sense ca. 10. Dem. 24. He speaketh of Lapsi by name that is of such as deny their faith in persecution Of whom alone the Nouatians Heresie against the Priestes Power of forgeuing sinnes was in the first beginning Soc. li. 4. ca. 23. li. 7. ca. 25. as we reade in Socrates and others Now will you that all such dispaire But the Catholike Church in time of the Nouatians would not no nor the Nouatians them selues would so much as I haue shewed neither would S. Paule He saith Impossibile est eos qui prolapsi sunt reuocari ad paenitentiam It is vnpossible for such denyers to be renouated againe vnto repentance To be renouated againe what is that but all which he there said was done once afore to be done againe eos qui semel sunt illuminati they who once haue bene baptized for that Sacrament the Gréekes call Illumination haue also tasted the heauenly gift and bene made partakers of the holy Ghost in the Sacrament of confirmation Act. 2. ver 33.38 and haue tasted in the Sacrament of the Altar the good word of God and the puissances of the world to come For these Sacramentes were and are ministred adultis together with Baptisme And euen so the Fathers constantly expound this place against the Nouatians that it saieth no more but that a sinner can not be rebaptized can not be renouated ad inchoationem Christi to beginne Christ againe or ad fundamentum paenitentiae c. to the foundation of repenting from dead workes and of beleeuing in God of Baptismes and of Hands imposition They be the Apostles wordes in the same place and to them
they ended not their life in sinne because that praying is according to Gods will For it foloweth there immediatly Who so knoweth his brother to sinne he vseth the present tense and not the preterfect tense to haue sinned because his intent is to exhort also the sinner to leaue by time a sinne not to death as one that liued in Schisme but yet was reconciled before he dyed let him after his death request of Christ and life shall be giuen vnto him to one I say sinning not vnto death Sinne there is vnto death I say not that any pray for that because it is not according to Christes will to pray for them that be in hell All iniquitie is sinne and therefore to be diligently auoyded and not so much as one moment to be incurred And there is sinne vnto death As if he would say if you auoyde not that no hope after your death your brethren can not helpe you by praying for you This is the playne and smooth sense of that whole place and so must néedes be because there is no man nor no sinne in this life but we may pray for him and it as neither the Nouatians as bad as they were did denie Onely the Protestantes denie it because they haue no other shift to auoyde this place And therby let any indifferent any Christian man iudge whether this be not a playne place for praying for the dead Fulkes wordes of sinnes in this life and men in this life not to be prayed for and that to be this sinne and sinner vnto death I shall recite in the twelfth Chapter amongst his grossest errors and absurdities Thus I haue answered thanks be to God al his Scriptures against Purgatory and all his arguments made out of the Authoritie thereof both negatiuely and affirmatiuely Cap. 7. part 4. Wherby appeareth to the full the vanitie of his bragges in the last Chapter against the church of God that he could would produce against the doctrine thereof such plaine testimonies of Scripture such Scripture also for the meaning of ech place as by no meanes might be auoyded Whereas amongst all his testimonies you sée there is not one but it hath bene cléerely answered As now in this fourth last part shall be answered likewise with the like helpe of god all other Scriptures that in these two most insolent Libelles in any place vp and downe he alleageth against any other point of the Churches doctrine The fourth part Concerning all other questions that he mentioneth And first to put all the same in some order for the more vtilitie of the Reader I conceaue all the differences that are betwéene vs and the Protestants in this diuision Some are about the witnesses of Gods word the principles of Diuinitie or groundes of all truth which by them is onely Scripture by vs not onely Scripture but also the Church and certain others whervpon we frame our Motiues to all men to beléeue vs not the Heretikes shewing them that such and such are the principles which they must beléeue and withall that the said principles euery one of them stand for vs and not for the Protestantes Some are about other particular or priuate controuersies Which may be reduced vnto these two heades Good-workes and the Sacramentes the doctrine of which both they corrupt with their new inueÌ„tion of Onely faith Only Scripture and Only Faith as they do the foresaid with their toye of Onely Scripture What Scripture he alleageth about the first sort I haue in the two first partes of this chapter reported them al answered theÌ„ sauing a very few which I reserue to the tenth chapter which shall be of euery Motiue or Demaund apart by it selfe There in these fiue Motiues of Churches Seruice Priesthood with Sacrifice Monkes and Pope I will answere his few Scriptures thervnto belonging Now then concerning the second sort and first Good-workes what he alleageth about them concerneth them partly in generall partly in speciall that is to say prayer fasting or almes About Good-works in generall Iustification Good works in generall it concerneth that he saith They do not iustifie wherevnto he alleageth two places one of S. Paule Pur. 450. the other of Esay We beleue saith he that a man is not iustified by workes but by faith onely Rom. 3. And yet we beleue that good workes are necessary to be in euery man that is iustified A faâ—sarie Iac. 5. The wordes of S. Iames be not as he saieth but expressely against him A man is iustified by workes and not by faith onely Where you sée also that it is in all one sense that works do iustifie and faith The words of S. Paule likewise be not as he saith but thus A man is iustified by faith without the workes of the law That is to say although he haue not euermore done the works which the law commaundeth to wit good works yea although he haue sometimes yea and alwayes done the cleane contrarie to wit all euill works yet let him come to the Catholike faith and he shall there finde a remedie for all and of a wicked and so wicked a man be made iuste all his sinnes and wickednes béeing remitted him This sayth S Paule and the same say we But after he is so iustified he must not do the like agayne he must then kéepe the commaundementes of the Law béeing now by Christ made a new man and able therevnto and by so doing he shall be more iustified as S. Iames saith Conferre these two places of S. Paules also The iustice that is of the Law qui fecerit homo the man that hath done it shall liue by it Rom. 10. ex Leuit. 18. Which is in effect that no man shall liue by it because no man hath done it but all men haue done against it all being borne in sinne therfore not by the works of iustice which we had done but according to his owne great mercy he saued vs by baptisme Tit. 3. Do you marke the tense He speaketh of works before faith where you should haue alleaged of works after faith And so withall is answered your other place Ar. 102. where you say that the Popish Church is not content to be clothed in the white shining silke which is the iustification of Saintes made white in the bloud of the Lambe but with the filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Esai 64. If God conuert your heart that you may returne to your mother the Catholike Churche you shall finde that she will make nothing of all the good workes which you do nowe in Heresie because it is but mans righteousnesse But the good workes whiche afterwarde in the Churche you shoulde haue of her husbande the Lambe where learned you to call them The filthy ragges of mans righteousnes Apoc. 19. He that doubteth whether those Iustifications of the faithfull in the Apocalipse be as I say iust workes the same Apostle if he will conferre places in
Psalme is it not a prayer for thē trow you or was not Purgatorie trauelled into Affrike neither when S. Augustine wrote as aboue because there also they caried their corpses with Psalmes In so much that soone after S. Augustines death Victor bishop of Vtica reporting the lamentable deuastations of the Catholike Churches there by the Arrian king Gensericus Victor de pers Vand. li. 1. fol. 3. b. saith among other things Quis vero sustineat sine Lachrymis c. And who can abide without teares to remember when he commaunded our deads corpses to be caryed vnto burying with scilence without the solemnitie of Psalmes Which lamentation you haue in England renewed to vs with addition also in that our Priests neither with scilence may burie the corpses of our Catholike brethren but your Ministers a Gods name with whom they would not communicate in their life must haue the laying vp of their bodies after their death a disordered folly in you Heretikes and the sinne of Schisme in suche Catholikes as geue consent vnto it Pur. 327. from .323 To these memories oblations and sacrifice for the dead doth belong also the place of Possidonius whiche you saye proueth plainly that it was the sacrifice of thanks giuing that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting off of his body Where he writeth of S. Augustine thus Nobis coram positis c. In our presence the sacrifice was offered vnto God Possid in vita Aug. cap. 31. for the cōmending of his bodies deposition and so he was buried Meaning by the bodies deposition not the putting off by death but the laying downe of it in the earth by burying as by leuatio corporis the taking vp againe of the bodies or Relikes of Saintes you might haue perceiued if you had beene skilfull in Antiquitie And by commending the deposition he meaneth the commendation of his soule to God vpon that day as I tolde you before Both which you might haue playnly vnderstoode by that which D Allen in the very same paragraph alleageth out of S. Augustine speaking of his mother Aug. 9. cōf ca. 12.14 Nam neque in eis precibus ego fleui quas tibi fundimus cum offeretur pro ea sacrificiū precij nostri iam iuxta sepulchrū posito cadauere priusquam deponeretur For neither in those prayers did I weepe which according to her request vpon her deathbed memoriam sui ad altare tuum fieri that memory of her might be made at thy altar we made vnto thee O God when the sacrifice of our price was offered for her the corpse nowe standing by the graue before it was laide downe Which place is so plaine that your selfe are faine to confesse that in the celebration of the Sacramēt the error of that time allowed prayers for the dead generally and speciall remēbraunce of some in the prayers namely because S. Augustine ther moreouer desireth God to inspire all his Priestes reading that booke Vt meminerint To remember at thy Altar Monica thy seruant and Patrike once her husband my Parents Repeating the same againe a litle after in these words In ministration of the Communion there was a speciall remembrance of her in the prayers as there was of all dead in the faith a generall memorie So that you vse indifferently these two prayers for the dead generally and a generall memory of the dead because you saw euidently that S. Augustine by remembring of his father mother at the Altar meant praying for them And yet such a cauiller you are Fulke the ansvverer Fulke the replier that D. Allen in saying memoriam sui a memory of her to be a memory for her must be charged with pseudologia as though she would haue her sonne to be a chauntrie Priest to sing for her not béeing able for all your gybing to deny but that he did both himselfe pray for her at the Altar if that be to be a Chauntrie Priest and procure other Priests to do the same Well by this practise about S. Monica the Reader perceiueth how properly you affirmed that it was only thanks giuing which Possidonius reporteth was done for S. Augustine But for al this you say although a memory or prayer was made for her in the celebration of the Sacrament yet was it not offered for hir as a Sacrifice and as a propitiation of hir sinnes No syr doth he not say expresly The sacrifice of our price was offered for her Yea but he expounded before in plaine words A friend of trust for Protestants August de verb. Apo. Ser. 34. that he meaneth thereby nothing els but the foresaid memorie Those plaine words neither you recite out of him nor no man els can finde in him as neither he nor any other reasonable man would vtter such a meaning in such words But these most playne words I find in him in another place Hoc a patribus traditum vniuersa obseruat Ecclesia vt pro eis qui in corporis sanguinis Christi communione defuncti sunt cum ad sacrificium salutare loco suo commemorantur oretur This as a Tradition of her Fathers the whole Church obserueth when they which are departed in the cōmunion of Christes body and bloud for the excōmunicate so were not be in their place mentioned at the healthfull sacrifice to pray for them What more Ac pro illis quoque id offerri commemoretur and to expresse that for thē also the sacrifice is offred Of particular Doctors Whether S. Augustine doubted of Purgatory Notwithstanding all this you will néedes haue fooles beléeue that S. Augustine was doubtfull in the matter of Purgatorie notwithstanding also that he so playnly prayeth for his mother Therefore O Lord God Aug. 9. confes 13. setting aside her good dedes for a while for which with ioy I do giue thee thanks Nunc pro peccatis matris meae deprecor te now I beseeche thee for my mothers sinnes for which at this day we also pray for the most Pur. 328. perfect excepting vndoubted Martyrs vntill by Canonization they be knowen to be Saintes Heare me for the medicine of our wounds that hung on the Crosse and sitting at thy right hand intreateth for vs c. So playnely Pur. 327. I say that you confesse this place to proue prayer for the dead vsed by S. Augustine and are fayne to saye It was all but superstition or will worship in him according to the corrupt motion of his owne minde Pur. 270.279.315 Au. ep 64. Enchi c. 110 de cur c. 18. Pu. 54.110 121.161.187 382. In another place also that he alloweth oblations for them that sleepe to profite somewhat Oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium vere aliquid adiuuare credendum est And yet for all this Augustine was very vncertayne you saye very often vnconstant and doubting of it so that Satan whose instrument you make that blessed Doctor was but then laying
Euery mans state we saye both is at his death and shal be at domesday according to his merites in his life Neither he that is clensed in Purgatory hath his merites either multiplied or amplified thereby but onely his veniall sinnes and temporall debtes taken away In the former place his words are these Although Abraham were in hell or in the inferior partes yet he was seuered with a long space betweene so that there was an huge chaos inter iustos peccatores quanto magis impios Betweene the iust and the Catholike sinners how much more the impious Heretikes Vt iustis esset refrigerium peccatoribus aestus impijs vero ardor That to the iust might be ease and heate as it were of the sunne to the sinners but fierie heate to the impious vt ante iudicium quo vnusquisque dignus esset non lateret that which eche sort were worthy of might before the iudgement be partly knowen Now how you can inferre of these words that no man feeleth payne after this life although S. Ambrose him selfe say it expresly in other places but he that shall feele it eternally I sée not Vnlesse perhappes you would binde him to yéelde a reason of Purgatory paynes withall when he yéelded a reason of Abrahams bosome and of the damned Soules hell or els haue him pronounced guiltie of contradiction and Purgatorie by your argument ab authoritate negatiuè quite subuerted From this saying of S. Ambrose we might well passe to the sayings of other Doctors alleaged agaynst Limbus patrum a friend of Purgatories but onely that we must stay a litle while for your pleasure Pur. 142.143 Emis ho. 3. de Epipha Ber. in vita Humberti with Eusebius Emissenus though him you take for a counterfaite and S. Bernard Because these two set foorth very terribly but truly the paynes of Purgatorie therfore with you the one sheweth him selfe an vtter enemie to the release of the same and the other denieth the remedie or remission of them As if you would say that the holy Scripture also where it preacheth Gods iustice denieth his mercy though in other places it preach his mercy no lesse For sée you not S. Bernard as earnest also for the remedie of those paynes where D. Allen alleageth him calling your friends the Apostolicie of his time Pur. 420. Ber. Ser. 66 in Cantica miscreants and doggs for laughing vs to skorne saith Bernard that we baptize infants that we pray for the dead that we require the helpe of the holy Saintes In so much that your self also confesse in another place saying Bernard is of opinion that sinnes not remitted in this world Pur. 194. may be remitted in the world to come Whether Purgatory be only for Veniall sinnes One other litle stay we must make about S. Augustines iudgement Pur. 122.448 being this as you say That Purgatory serueth to purge none but very small and light offences Wheras D. Allen saith that it is for great faultes also which by penance are made small alleaging for it this playne place Quaedam enim peccata sunt quae sunt mortalia Pur. 128. August de ver fal Poen ca. 18. in paenitentia fiunt venialia non tamen statim sanata For there be certaine sinnes which be mortall and in penance be made veniall but not straight healed As oftentimes certen sick persons would dye but for Phisick yet are not straight healed Lanquet victurus qui prius erat moriturus Feeble he is though now to liue and not to dye as before And therefore although one truely conuerted at the poynt of death from his wickednes nequitia c. shall be saued Yet we do not promise him that he shall escape all payne Nam prius purgandus est igne purgationis qui in aliud seculum distulit fructum conuersionis for he must first be purged with the fire of Purgatorie who in this world conuerted but deferred the fruite of conuersion to the other world Studeat ergo quilibet sic delicta corrigere vt post mortem non oporteat talem poenam tolerare Therfore let euery one labour so to amend his sinnes also after his conuersion because he is now as the sicke person past daunger of death but not healed as yet that after death he suffer not such passing grieuous payne You tooke not the paynes to take the booke and reade the place and therefore blindly you say that this Doctors words are playnly of light and smal offences and not of heinous and great offences euen also against your owne eyes that sawe the word Mortalia And againe that the manifest meaning of his words is not of a mortall sinne forgiuen as though he said that it become a veniall trespasse but that a mortall sinne may be pardoned Whereas he speaketh so manifestly of a mortall sinne after penance as of a mortall disease after Phisicke the daunger of soule death in the one as of bodily death in the other béeing now past but the healing behinde and therefore also daunger of Purgatory payne for it behind D. Allen alleageth for the same also Enchir. cap. 71. where S. Augustine affirmeth that Et illa peccata a quibus vita Fidelium sceleratè etiam gesta sed poenitendo in melius mutata discedit Also those sinnes in the which the faithfull haue wickedly lyued but nowe by penance lefte them chaunging their liues to better are after taken away by the same remedies as minima quotidiana peccata breuia leuiaque peccata the least and daily the short and light sinnes to wit among other remedies by the Pater noster which is the dayly prayer of the faithfull Which also in the next world he admitteth ca. 69. and 70. of the said Infanda crimina qualia qui agunt regnum dei non possidebunt Gal. 5. heinous crimes which depriue the parties of Gods kingdome Si conuenienter poenitentibus eadem crimina remittantur If the same crimes be forgiuen them in the Church vpon their due penance then he graunteth I say that such persons also may be saued by Purgatory fire after this life and not they onely that dye with Veniall sinnes This D. Allen there alleageth briefly and you say neuer a word vnto it Pur. 120. Onely you snatch those words which he alleageth among others out of another place to another purpose Illo enim transitorio igne non capitalia Au. Ser. 41. de Sanctis 1. Cor. 3. sed minuta peccata purgantur By that transitorie fire whereof the Apostle saith He shal be saued by fire are purged not mortall but light offences neither considering that he speaketh of purging culpam the fault it selfe for he speaketh against them that continue still in cōmitting mortall sinnes and deceiue them selues with false securitie while they think that peccate ipsa those sinnes may be purged by the transitorie fire them selues afterwards come to euerlasting life Nor knowing that he there also very
then with you in ten and namely to declare the effect of the Sacraments according to the Councell of Trent Sess 8. c. 7. which in another place you cite to such as receaue thē Fiftly argumentes néede not you say playnly The spirituall Priesthood is common to al Christian men and women Pur. 450.451.299 1. Pet. 1. as true it is and against all other Priesthood of any Christian men you say in the same place There is no Priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatorie but onely the Priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchisedech Heb. 7. By and by after making vs as in a great absurditie to say Christ is not onely our high Priest according to the order of Melchisedech For euery hedge Priest is of the same order Why you call thē hedge Priests looke you But this cannot be denyed that in the Scriptures and in the Primitiue Church certaine Christian men were Priestes otherwise then Lay men and women as the Apostles S. Timothie S. Hierome S. Cyprian c. And therefore then there was some other Priesthood besydes the spirituall Priesthood which is common to all And therefore againe you haue taken away the Priesthood by your owne confession Sixtly and lastly if to salue this deadly sore you will inuent some third kind of Priesthood I say that the primitiue or fathers Priesthood was according to the order of Melchisedech to offer a sacrifice in bread wine The sacrifice of the Masse as Melchisedech and Christ did And therfore you be against the Priesthood because you be against this Priesthood arguing rayling at it al that you can But we Christians to whom this Priesthood is playnly descended from the Apostles and Fathers none of you all being able to shew any later origine of it regard not your arguments they be but obiections And yet to defend the truth more fully for our Fathers and not onely for our selues we solue them euery one But first that the Reader may see whose aduersarie you be herein he shall heare S. Augustine The Manichée had falsified S. Paule making him to say qui sacrificant Au. cō Ad uer leg prophet li. 1. c. 19.20 1. Cor. 10. daemonijs sacrificant They which sacrifice do sacrifice to diuels quasi omnes qui sacrificant non sacrificent nisi daemonibus as if al that sacrifice do not sacrifice but to deuils He therfore sheweth the Apostle not to say qui sacrificant they which sacrifice but quae sacrificant the things that they sacrifice speaking of the Idolatrers They do sacrifice to the diuels and you therefore are communicantes with the diuels if you eate of those sacrifices euen as Israel secundum carnem the Iudaicall people eating of their sacrifices was therby partaker of the Altar in their Temple Deinde secutus adiunxit ad quod sacrificium iam debeant pertinere Then he followeth and addeth to what sacrifice the Corinthians now must pertaine being Christians and Israel secundum spiritum saying The Chalice of blessing which we doe blesse is it not the Communication of the bloud of Christ The bread which we breake is it not the participation of the body of our Lorde vt intelligerent ita se iam socios esse Corporis Christi quemadmodum illi socij sunt altaris That they might vnderstand themselues now to be Communicātes of the body of Christ so as the Iewes are Communicantes of their Altar And then a few lines after The Churche from the Apostles time by most certaine Successions of Byshops to our time and hereafter doth continue et immolat Deo in corpore Christi sacrificium laudis and doth sacrifice to God in Christes Body a sacrifice of praise Psal 49. For this Church is Israel after the spirit from whom is distinguished that Israel after the fleshe who serued in the shadowes of sacrifices by which was signified the singular Sacrifice which now Israel secundum spiritum doth offer Iste immolat Deo sacrificium laudis c. Psal 109. This Israel doth sacrifice to God a sacrifice of praise not after the order of Aaron but after the order of Melchisedech Nouerunt qui legunt c. Gene. 14. The Readers know what Melchisedech did bring forth when he did blesse Abraham And now they be partakers thereof they see such a sacrifice now to be offered to God ouer all the worlde Mala. 1. Et quod Deum non paenitebit c. And where the Psalme sayeth God will not repent him it is a signification that he will not chaunge this Priesthood for he changed the Priesthood after the order of Aaron And not onely S. Augustine but the whole rancke of the holy Fathers doth teach the same such a Priesthood to be and to continue in the Church to offer suche a sacrifice in the forme of bread and wine tearming it after the order of Melchisedech Pur. 295. in so muche that you also confesse and say Those of the olde Writers which compare the celebration of the Lordes Supper with Melchisedeches bread and wine which you say they call sometime the Sacrifice of bread and wine noting that as though it made against Transubstantiation which vayne collection I haue refuted here cap. 8. pag. 148. and also adding further And yet but a sacrifice of thankesgiuing Whether but for thankesgiuing and not also for procuring mercy I haue here at large examined cap. 9. pag. 196. to 204. But that is nothing to the matter which we haue nowe in hande For a Sacrifice of thankesgiuing is and in the olde Lawe was a Sacrifice no lesse properly then a Sacrifice of propitiation And the Sacrifice of the Crosse was both I trow and therefore the Sacrifice of the Altar to be the one what doth that let but it maye be the other also Likewise a memoriall Sacrifice of Christes passion no lesse then a prefiguratiue Sacrifice is a true sacrifice though it be not called his very passion but by a similitude And therefore al that you alleage out of Augustine Pur. 292.316.320 Chrysostome Cyprian Irenée Iustine Ambrose although they saide all as you woulde haue them that this is a memory of Christes passion and not his passion but only in a mysterie is all nothing to the purpose Pur. 292.294.320.321.326 And therefore you haue yet a better aunswere in store We confesse you saye that of the olde Writers it is commonly called a Sacrifice but vnproperly And howe do you shewe that Because * Ambr. ad virg lapsā De virg l. 1. orat in fr. Satyr one of them saith of a virgine that to her death is vnspotted that her Parentes might count her Hostiam viuam a liuing Sacrifice propitiatricem suorum videlicet delictorum a Propitiatrix or procurer of mercy for their sinnes by making intercession for them to God in heauen You might as well argue that S. Paule in saying Christes body by death to be made a Sacrifice Heb. 10. speaketh
of Iamnia for the which God suffered c 2. Mac. 12. ver 32.40 thē to be ouerthrowen after Pentecost by the souldiers of Gorgias And then Iudas sent that money to those vnspotted Priests at Ierusalem to offer Sacrifice for their sinne The chiefe of which Priests in the absence of Iudas him self were his brethren Ionathas and Simon and not Menelaus nor any of those other Apostataes You might haue learned by those bookes that the succession of the true Pontifices or High Priestes for that time was this a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Onias e 1. Mac. 2. ver 1.70 Mathathias f 1. M. 3. v. 1. 1. M. 9. v. 18 Iudas i Ionathas k Simon And that these others a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Iason b 2. Mac. 4. v. 24.29 2. Ma. 13. Menelaus c 2. Ma. 4. ver 29.41 Lysimachus g Alcimus were but Antipontifices or false vsurpers against these to wit a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Iason the author of the Apostasie from the Law against his brother Onias and secondly Menelaus against the same a 2. Mac. 3. ver 1. 2. Ma. 4. ve 7.10.14.26 2. Ma. 4. ve 33 34. 2. Ma. 5. ve 5.7.9 Onias and thirdly Lysimachus brother to Menelaus After the Apostasie thus begun that liuely Image of Antichrist king d 1. Mac. 1. 2. M. 5. v. 11 Antiochus Epiphanes taketh Ierusalem martyreth the Law-kéepers finally setteth vp in the Temple the abhomination of Desolation being a Statuee of Iupiter Against him his riseth the foresaide e 1. Mac. 2. ver 1.70 Mathathias and after him his sonne f 1. M. 3. v. 1. 1. M. 9. v. 18 Iudas Machabeus who repurged the Temple the same day thrée yeres that it was polluted Anno 148. And the next yere Antiochus dyeth his sonne Antiochus Eupator succéedeth with him striueth for the kingdome g Demetrius Soter An. 151. to whom fled the wicked of Israel and Alcimus their Capteine qui volebat fieri Sacerdos to complayne of Iudas g 1 Mac. 7. ver 1.5.9 1. Mac. 9. ver 54.55 Which Alcimus dyed of Gods hand the next yere after the killing of Iudas i 1. M. 9. ve 31.10 v. 18.13 v. 23. and could neuer get Ierusalem the Temple but alwayes after the repurgation it continued in the gouernmēt of Iudas and of Ionathas after him and then of his other brother k 1. Mac. 13. v. 8.36.41.43 Simon Of whose Priesthood also High priesthood the text is playne in their seuerall places here noted in the margine I wil recite the wordes that are written of the last * 1. Mac. 13. ver 42. The yere 170. the people of Israel began to write in their Court-rolles and Records thus Anno primo sub Simone Summo Sacerdote magno Duce Principe Iudaeorum The first yere vnder Simon the High Priest the great Duke and Prince of the Iewes Certaine other poyntes of your grosse or rather malicious ignorance in the Scrirtures are about Antichrist As that the Church of Christ should prepare his way or worke his mysterie that his Reuelation or comming should be so soone after the beginning of the Church and so long before the consummation of the world that the Churches flying into the wildernes in his time should be to be driuen out of the sight of the wicked and knowledge of the world that his raigne should last so many hundred yeres that he should be a Succession of certayne men and not one only certaine person that the Church should be come againe out of the wildernes and yet Antichrist raigning still These are the very foundations of your new Lutheran and Caluinistical Gospell and yet no ground at all for them or any one of them in the holy Scriptures of God but onely in the weake sande of your owne blasphemons but bold asseuerations in presence of fooles who haue auerted their vnhappie yeres away from trueth and conuerted them vnto your fables Againe that the body of Christ is not offered to him selfe but thanksgiuing is offered to him for the offering of his body for vs. Pur. 316. Why Syr did not he vpon the Crosse offer his owne body as a man and a priest to him selfe as to God You noted others here cap. 4. pag. 28. and cap. 6. pag. 63. as for saying that it is not lawfull to pray to God the Sonne and there S. Fulgentius tolde you as the Fathers Créede doth that ech person of the blessed indiuiduall Trinitie Simul odoratur conglorificatur Is with other at once adored and conglorified no sacrifice neither that of Christes body whether it be vpon the Crosse or vpon the Altar béeing priuate to one but common to all thrée Agayne that you call it a vayne amplification and fond supposition Pur. 155. to extend the force of Christes death beyond the limits of his will As though it were not of force to worke any whit more then it worketh in acte as to saue so muche as one of them that shall not be saued Contrarie to this expresse Scripture He is the propitiation for our sinnes 1. Ioan. 2. and not for our sinnes onely but also for the sinnes of the whole world And contrarie to this saying of your owne in another place Pur. 34. Concerning the sufficiencie of Christes Redemption there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthinesse thereof passeth and excelleth it Againe that to remit sinnes is proper vnto his Diuinitie As though he Pur. 26. that is to say our Sauiour Christ doth not remit sins according to his humanitie also No maruell to sée you denie this power to his ministers when you denie it to the Sonne of man him selfe Mat. 9. The people in the Gospell vnderstood him otherwise when your fathers the Scribes called it a blasphemie for any to remit sinnes but onely God and the people contrariwise séeing his mirable that he wrought to proue his and his Churches doctrine herein did glorifie God for giuing such power to men hominibus Whervpon he when the time was come gaue commission to his Apostles Ioan. 20. saying As my Father sent me I also sende you Whose sinnes you forgiue they are forgiuen them Againe that pestilent doctrine of desperation wherein you say a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 There be sinnes for which the Church ought not to pray euen of men remayning in this life a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 for which it is not lawfull to pray a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 which by the mercy of God are not pardonable for a Pur. 274.127.128.135.283 it is false that so long as men are in this world they maye
is linked your place with enim Impossibile est enim for it is vnpossible c. And that which our Sauiour saith to the Pharisées Scribes Mat. 12. Mar. 3. of Sinne or blasphemie against the holy Ghost because they said Spiritum immundum habet He hath an vncleane spirit euen Belzabub the prince of the diuels to cast out diuels by doth he say it to driue them to desperation yea doth he not plainely speake it to moue them the more and to the greater repentance As your selfe also contrarie after your manner to your selfe Pur. 461. though in expresse wordes counting D. Allen and his fellowes such as Heb. 6. can not by you repent hauing sometime bene lightned As though D. Allen had euer bene a Protestant and tasted of the good gift of God doe yet exhort them truely to repent and to returne to the acknowledging of trueth once knoweÌ„ and professed and doe beseech God that so many among them as are curable may haue grace so to do So the whole circumstance sheweth that Christ there exhorteth them to most humble penance For neither doth he otherwise say that such sinne blasphemie shal not be remitted then he saith that all other sinne and blasphemie shall be remitted And yet I trow many a one yea aboue all number may be and is damned in hell for other sinne and blasphemie Euen so many a one yea and aboue all number may be and is forgiuen the sinne against the Holy Ghost Wherby it is euident that he doth no more in that place but report the ordinarie rules of Gods prouidence to wit To forgeue al other sinne ordinarily by giuing the partie grace to repent and not to forgeue ordinarily the sinne against the holy Ghost that is when one maliciously calleth the Miracles of Christ and of his Seruauntes the workes of the Deuill or the lying signes and wonders of Antichrist Which sinne your new Gospell hath made very common in these dayes But yet that no such also should dispaire one of these a Act. 23.26 Philip. 3. Pharisées he the very worst of theÌ„ all saith most comfortably b 1. Tim. 1. Act. 7.9 A sure saying and worthy of all embracing that Christ Iesus came into the worlde to saue sinnerss of whom I am the principall But to this end I had mercie that in me the principall who afore was a blasphemer and a persecuter and an oppresser in my c Vide Au. expo inch ad Rom. prope fineÌ„ blind incredulitie Christ Iesus might shew all clemencie for a samplar to all that should after beleue in him Nowe for that which you alleaged out of Samuel Ieremie and Ezechiel it is all spoken in one sense of temporall matters to wit of casting Saule from his kingdome and the Iewes into captiuitie in another sense of the Iewes generall reprobation in which they presently be since their crucifying of their Messias and ours But to pray for the saluation of Saul or the Iewes no man was forbidden no nor for their temporall felicitie to continue vntill it was quite past So did Samuell mourne for Saul euen to the moment that he was sent to annoint Dauid in his place So did Ieremie still continue praying for the Iewes as appeareth in the same Chapters Rom. 10. and as Saint Paule writeth of his owne doyng afterwardes when the time of their reprobation was nowe present Finally there is in Ezechiel a notable and a comfortable rule for the wicked also by name howe to take and vnderstande the comminations of God to wit not simply as you doe and absolutely Ezech. 33. Iere. 18. but with a condition If I say to the wicked Thou shalt die the death sée as it were absolutely but yet it followeth neuerthelesse and he repent him of his sinne and worke iudgement and iustice and make restitution of pledge and of robberie and generally walke in the commaundementes of lyfe nor doe any euill he shall liue the life and shall not die Another point is that straunge interpretation of the Article of our Creede Christ descended into Hell to redeeme vs out of Hell by suffering the wrath of God for our sinnes Hebr. 5. In that place is neuer a worde of that Article and much lesse of that interpretation neither that Christ suffred the wrath of God although that may be saide so as the Scriptures doe tearme payne or punishment by the name of wrath But then what other wrath did he suffer then that which is expressed plainely in the wordes afore passus crucifixus mortuus He suffered was crucifyed and dyed Belike you meane the padde that your Maister Caluine leaft in the strawe Pur. 451. Cal. Insti li. 2. ca. 16. sect 10. that all thys which I haue saide was nothing Nihil actum erat si Christus corporea tantum morte defunctus fuisset It had auayled nothing if Christ had dyed bodily death onely And so you will bring vs when you reply b Aug. ep 99. howe he dyed some death of Soule also eyther that which mortall Sinners doe dye here in sinning or that which they dye afterwardes in Hell when they be in damnation for their sinne You say Pur. 63. that Caluine affirmeth his descending into Hell to be vnderstoode of the wrath of God which he sustayned for our sinnes before his death at that time especially when he that was God complained that he was forsaken of God What other forsaking was that but that he did not deliuer him from the Crosse which was to forsake by the iudgement both of naturall desire and especially of his most wicked enemies who saide there in their diuelishe insultation Mat. 27. He trusted in God let him nowe deliuer him if he will haue him for he said That I am the Sonne of God Neyther was it a complaint as you say but a prayer as you myght haue séene euen Hebrues .5 if you had not béene blynd Who in the dayes of his fleshe with a myghtie crie and with teares offered vp prayers and supplications to hym that was able to saue him out of death and was heard for hys reuerence to wit beinâ— raysed by him agayne Whereby you sée that in déede he was not forsaken neyther corporally Where now is your Sâ—â—ipture or Caluins for any other but bodyly death of Châ—ist for any other wrath for any other forsaking Or what Châ—istian man did euer thinke that Christes bodily death alone was nothing yea or that it was not the full sufficient and abundant raunsome or redemption of the world All the world must go to schole againe to Caluin to learne that Christes soule besides his bodily death was in such horrible distresse of conscience in such meruellous anguish horror frayeur yea and damnation that his case was for the time despairing blaspheming excepted euen the selfe same that the case of the damned is for euer yea that he was in feare least he should haue bene
damned * Fulke vvil auouch this out of Heb. v. in his Reply for euer also This is the doctrine of that beast as D. Allen doth most worthily call him for it against our Sauiours corporall death which was his onely death and that in many of his impious bookes and namely in that Catechisme which they haue ioyned with their French Bibles in the end belike that it may among fooles créepe in time into Canonicall authoritie as alreadie Luther with the Lutherans and Caluine with the Caluinistes is péere to the Apostles them selues And for touching of this doctrine it is that Fulke more zealous for Caluine then for Christ goulpeth vp such geare against D. Allen as the Reader may sée in the place falsifying also D. Allens wordes because otherwise he had no marke to shoote at as though he had said Caluine to affirme that Christ went downe into hell after his death Whereas D. Allen saith nothing of the time when he descended by Caluin but onely of the hellike torments which Caluine buildeth vpon his descending Howbeit I would aske Fulke why it is such a mysterie that Christes soule was in damnation for the time vpon the Crosse and not also and rather after his death for the time vntill his resurrection specially considering that in the Créede Crucifixus goeth before Sepultus and Descendit ad inferos followeth Sepultus as also commonly in the Scriptures the time of his Soule in hell is made concurrant with the time of his body in the graue And who séeth not thereby that the Catholikes interpretation is also most naturall and proper that after Mortuus which signifieth the separation of his body and soule by death followeth Sepultus to shewe where his body was afterwardes Descendit ad inferos to tell where his Soule was afterwardes though not in damnation according to these mens new blasphemie vntill both were conioyned againe in his Resurrection as there it followeth immediately Tertia die resurrexit a mortuis Thus I am faine to stand long vpon euery point be it neuer so absurd and impious against our Lord God him selfe and against our onely Redēption in his bloud For they can wrest the Scriptures to such poyntes also We should I thinke afore now if this poynt of Christes damnation for our Redemption had not bene by diuers Catholikes so handled to their shame haue had that other poynt likewise of some Caluinistes made more common that Christ also did despeire in God or blaspheme God or commit some other sinne against God for our Redemption Synod Gē 5. Ses 4. Ses 8. ca. 12. For I sée not but they are already come to say with that old most detestable blasphemous Heretike Theodorus Mopsuestenus master to Nestorius that he had in him fomitem peccati inclination to sinne and that he was not from his conception impeccabilis that is vnsinable considering they say he feared to be damned for euer vnlesse they will say that he was so ignorant to feare a thing that was vnpossible to befall vnto him Which yet them selues can not feare because of their Speciall faith forsooth Pur. 290.296.298 O Lord these blasphemous helhoundes are more worthy to be beaten downe with thunderboltes and so forth as Fulke knoweth how to amplifie but that afore he lacked matter It is no maruell now after this to sée this man so cold for the honor or rather so impiously set against the honor of Christes Mother As first to quit the Heluidians and Antidicomarianitae August ad Quodvult Haer. 84. Epip Haer. 78. Pur. 453. who were by the Primitiue Church condemned as Heretikes for denying her perpetuall virginitie But he notwithstanding saith As for the perpetuall virginitie of the Mother of Christ as we can thinke it is true so bicause the Scripture hath not reuealed it neither perteineth it vnto vs we make no question of it No it perteineth not vnto you to accurse old Heretikes but to ioyne with old Heretikes that perteineth vnto you and also to forge new principles as that same of Only Scripture in their fauour yea and also to contradict your selfe for the matter For but foure lines afore you say All trueth may be proued by Scripture And now of this We can thinke it is true and yet the Scripture hath not reuealed it You might with more honestie haue said that it may be proued by Scripture namely where she saith Quoniam virum non cognosco Because I know not man that is Luc. 1. Au. de san virg ca. 4. because I haue made a vow of virginitie how therfore cā I haue a child But this place you could not aleage you wot for another cause neither do I say that it proueth inuincibly her perpetuall virginitie although it so proue her vow For I know that besides her vow it should be proued that she neuer sinned against her vow nor had a dispensation of God for it Secondly you controll D. Allen Pur. 86.87 where saying that the iustest person sinneth he excepteth Christ and for his honor his mother You thinke it must then be said that he was not sauiour of his Mother and she had no neede of his saluation If you had bene a reader of S. Augustine as you be of Caluine you might haue easily remembred that he saith the very same that D. Allen doth A piece of Pelagius his heresie being that a man may liue without all sinne Au. de nat gra c. 36. he alleaged for it the example of so many iust persons commended in the Scriptures and among the rest our Lord and Sauiours Mother saying that to confesse her without sinne necesse est pietati It is necessarie for him that will not be impious Howe you woulde haue answered him we sée specially thinking you haue Scripture for her sinning because Christ said vnto her Why did you seeke me Luc. 2. Ioan. 2. c. and What to me and thee O woman c. you thinke that Christ here reproueth her and that he had done her wrong herein if she did not sinne You might do well to tell vs what were those sinnes of hers S. Augustine could not sée any there nor els where but saith playnly in his answere to Pelagius although the contrarie had bene for his vantage against him Excepting the holy Virgin Mary of whom for the honor of our Lorde I will haue no question in the worlde when we talke of sinnes Inde enim scimus for by this we know that more grace was giuen to her to ouercome sinne altogether because she was worthy to conceiue and bring forth him whom it is certayne to haue had no sinne The honor of our Lorde is by Fulke his dishonor Where also you sée that her not sinning doth not argue as after your Diuinitie that she had no nede of Christes grace Con. Tri. Ses 6. can 23. but the cleane contrarie that she had so much the more of his grace then any other
time was no such time but that he and al his felowes though they held the foundation of Christ yet might did erre in some opinions contrary to the truth of Gods word And agayne Cyprian and al the Bishops of Aphrica were notwithstanding their error of Heretiks baptisme to be no baptisme in the vnity of the church In all these places he alludeth although he neuer expresse it to S. Pauls saying 1. Cor. 3. that The foundation is Iesus Christ and if any man buyld vpon this foundation he shal be saued yea also though his buylding or worke be wood or straw such to witte as will wast away in the day of fire Let vs conferre with it this saying Matt. 7. He buildeth vpon the Rocke which heareth or beléeueth my sayings Aug. in Ps 103. cor 3. de fide op ca. 16. Gala. 5. and worketh them S. Augustine expoundeth it most aptly in very many places when he saith that Christ to be in the foundation is that he haue the principall place in our heart and nothing at all be preferred before him Which is done if he dwel in our hearts by a working faith for That fayth which by loue worketh being layde in the foundation suffereth none to perish So that if we be either out of faith or out of charitie then be we without this sauing foundation As are all they that eyther beléeue any one heresie or breake any one commaundement by any mortall sinne For so saith S. Paule expresly of Heresies with all other works of the flesh Gala. 5. That they which do such thinges shall not inherite the kingdome of God For which purpose agayne thrée places are diligently to be conferred in all which the first part of the sentence he chaungeth not at all but the other part he varieth thrée wayes 1. Cor. 7. Gala. 5. Gala. 6. geuing vs playnly thereby his meaning In Christ Iesus saith he neither circumcision nor vncircumcision is ought or can do ought but a new man but fayth working by charitie but keeping of Gods commaundementes This is the truth But nowe commeth Fulke with an other exposition which first requireth not workes of charitie or obseruation of the cōmaundements nor secondly also so much as fidem integram inuiolatamque a sound and vncorrupted faith but onely to holde this one article of faith to beleeue in the onely Sonne of God and in the onely mercy of God And if any man erre about other articles and that also so obstinately that he condemneth his aduersaries for heretikes yet he holdeth the foundation and by vertue of it shall be saued notwithstanding and so did S. Augustine and those other Fathers and therefore they were of the true Church and are saued Howe much more warely dealt your maister Peter Martyr vpon this place to the Corinthians who séeing the absurdities hereof Pet. Mar in 1. Cor. thought better to say that the Fathers in the agonie of their death acknowledged their errors Et non raro fit c. It happeneth often saith he that such as in their whole life time had not the gift to thinke a right of Religion haue it often geuen them at the last houre to vnderstand in the agonie of death that the superstitions and abuses to which afore they had yealded them selues were both vaine and also hurtfull Which thing I would not doubt to haue happened to Bernard Frauncise Dominike and many of the auncient Fathers because liuing in the foundation that is in Christ although they builded many abuses and very many superstitions yet they might be saued howbeit through fire what time at the last houre they wrestled against death and the terrors of their sinnes and in that wrastling acknowledged the vanitie of their fansies Thus you sée how they are troubled to saue them whom no lesse then vs they should but dare not to condemne and while they labour so to do they do it specially Fulke by such meanes as no lesse serueth to saue vs. For who knoweth not that we beléeue in the onely Sonne of God and in the onely mercy of God and that therefore we looke not to be saued by our owne works that is to say which we did without him as when we were in Paganisme or in Iudaisme or in Caluinisme and any other heresie or finally in any mortall sinne but onely by his workes that is by his Sacraments that of his great mercy he hath instituted for vs the good déeds that of his great mercy he hath created in vs in Christ Iesus euen as S. Paule saith Tit. 3. Not for any works of righteousnes that we did before Baptism quae fecimus nos but for his mercy he hath saued vs by Baptisme per lanacrum generationis that thou maist sée his mercy and his sacrament stande well together Eph. 2. And againe for wee be his new creature created in Christ Iesus in good workes And therefore afore we were in Christ Iesus we had no works to saue vs but they are our workes only in Christ Iesus that saue vs. For so the same S. Paule teacheth vs as I said afore what it is that in Christ Iesus is of power to saue vs to wit our new creation in these good workes our faith working by charitie our kéeping of Gods commaundementes so that againe his mercy in Christ Iesus and his creature or good workes in Christ Iesus stand well together And euen thus did also those old fathers beléeue of the Sacraments of good workes Supra pag. whom he confesseth notwithstanding to haue beléeued in the onely Iesus Christ the onely mercy of God beléeuing likewise the communion of prayers betwixt all that are in Christ Iesus Infra pag. either quick or dead as him selfe likewise confessed of thē in the .3 Supra pag. Chap. And therfore séeing they notwithstanding that are confessed to haue beléeued in the onely sonne the only mercy of God we no lesse for all that our beliefe must be likewise confessed to beléeue the same onely foundation and so consequently to haue likewise the true Churche and saluation be the impudent audacitie of Fulke neuer so great to say that we build vpon no foundation at all and seeke by all meanes to digge vp the onely true foundation of our faith Iesus Christ making him nothing better then a common person except his bare name Euen as his friendes and masters be altogether as lustie with the Fathers them selues Flaccus Illyric in Claue Scripturae parte i. in praef one of them saying of S. Hierome by name that he was Et morbi humani medici Christi ignarus ignorant both of mans disease and of Christ the Phisitian Therefore let him wrangle as much as he will this is the plaine case euery indifferent man doth sée all like both in vs and in the Fathers about his supposed foundation if they helde it we hold it if we holde it not Infra
wel be more remisse therin though yet she kepeth those Ceremonies still Aug. ep 86 Reade S. Augustine ad Casulanum of those matters where also besides this you shall finde also another generall reason according to the diuine wisdome of that most Ecclesiastical doctor to wit that it sufficeth if the Church haue vnitie of faith as it were intus in membris inwardly in her limmes and that she wel may withall haue diuersitie of obseruations as it were varietatem in veste varietie in her queenely garment according to the Psalme Psal 44. Which he speaketh for diuersitie of Ceremonies in sundry places at one time but it serueth for the like diuersitie in one place at sundry times as it is euident As for your boldnes with the Fathers for their Liturgies pronouncing that vndoubtedly they chaunged the auncient truth into their owne lately receiued errors Proc. apud Claud. de Sainctes praef in Liturg. or else why were they not content with the olde forme Proclus Bishop of Constantinople about a thousand yeres agoe answereth your Why telleth you that S. Basill and S. Chrysostome did no more but abridge the Liturgie of S. Iames the Apostle which thrée Liturgies the Councell in Trullo also doth acknowledge and that vpon iuste cause Can. 32. But that with errors they corrupted eyther it or any other forme which was vsed before them if any man be so farre gone so to thinke vpon your light worde for all the most renowmed credite of those Fathers let the studious of truth notwithstanding take the paynes to conferre those Liturgies and they shall easily be able of their owne inspection to controll you Supra pag. 21. as I also before in the third Chapter by playne demonstration disproued you for the same and namely in the very same article that forced you to this absurde and shameles shift v. Of Sacrifice and for the dead Now are we come to your next accusation of the auncient Church concerning Sacrifice concerning the dead The name of Sacrifice Pur. 419. which they coÌ„monly vsed for the celebration of the Lords supper they tooke vp of the Gentiles so you say but you proue it not You might as well say that they or the Apostles had it of the Gentiles to name that Sacrifice which Christ offered vpon the Crosse No syr they named it so because it was so and therfore Christ also said not This is I that was borne of the virgine though that were true but This is my body vpon the one Matt. 26. and This is my bloud vpon the other The Apostle also for the same cause saying of him that commeth therevnto vnworthily not that he is guyltie of Christ though that be true 1. Cor. 11. but that he is guyltie of his body and of his bloud because it is such a celebration of his death Wherevpon if you knew what is the sacrificing of a liue thing you should sée that how properly he was sacrificed on the Crosse in an open maner euen as properly he is sacrificed here in a mysticall maner The same Apostle therefore agayne saying that we haue an a Heb. 13. Altar to eate of which place your blindnesse b Pur. 45â— alleageth against this Sacrifice and also calling it c 1. Cor. 10 The table of our Lorde in that forme of speache as he calleth c 1. Cor. 10 The table of the diuels the sacrifice of the Gentiles and the Leuiticall sacrifices likewise the Leuiticall c 1. Cor. 10 Altar Yet you can not find d Pur. 200 289. one word nor one syllable in the Scripture of any Sacrifice instituted by Christ at his last Supper Whereof we shall say more Cap. 10. Dem. 24. Purgatorie But to go forwarde with you to your accusation first of Purgatorie and afterward of Purgatorie fire To proue that Purgatory came of the Philosophers as al most notable heresies did Pur. 416. Tertul. de anima cap 31.32 you alleage out of Tertullian De anima that all Philosophers which graunted the soules immortalitie assigned three places for the soules departed heauen hell and a third place of purifying This argument proueth as well that heauen and hell and the Immortalitie of the soule had their originall of the Philosophers Howbeit also to report the truth there is no word of any third place of purifying but onely that such Philosophers made two sortes of Receptacles to wit Supernas mansiones for Philosophers soules onely and Inferos for all other soules and that about the first they did varie for Plato placed it in aethere Aerius in aëre the Stoikes circa lunam This is all Againe you proue out of Irenéeus that Purgatorie came of Carpocrates the Heretike Iren. li. 1. cap. 24. because he inuented a kinde of Purgatorie and proued it out of that place of S. Mathew Thou shalt not come forth vntil thou hast payd the vttermost farthing Mat. 5. euen as the Papistes do By this argument againe you will winne much honestie Epiph. li. 1. To. 2. Haer. 27. Tertul. de anima c. 17 Ireneus and after him Epiphanius as also Tertullian in your owne booke De anima do write that the Carpocratians helde that a man must wallow in aâ—l the filthe of sinne that is in this world before he can come to life euerlasting and therefore if he haue missed any sinne his soule is reuersed into a body and so againe and againe vntill he haue fulfilled all And for this purpose Iesus they say vsed this Parable of agreeing with the aduersarie in the way Matt. 5. c. Corpus enim dicunt esse carcerem c. For that prison they say is the body and that which he saith Thou shalt not go out thence vntill thou hast payed the last farthing they interprete as if the soule should be turned ouer by certayne Angels from body to body semper quoadvsque in omni omnino operatione quae in mundo est fiat Continually euen vntill it haue bene in all and euery acte of this world vt nihil amplius relinquatur saith Epiphanius ad nefarium quicquam faciendum so that nothing remayne that is abhominable but it is fulfilled Purgatorie fire Pur. 419.418 You goe forward and say that they tooke Purgatorie fire of the Origenistes and the name of Purgatorie of certayne Mediators who about S. Augustines time would accorde Origens error with the erroneous practise of the church For it was Origen that brought in the fire also and that he would buylde as the Papists do See here ca. xij of Christes damnation temporall according to Caluine and as he had better reason then the Papistes haue out of the 1. Cor. 3. This you say but you proue it not Origens error was that hell fire is not an euerlasting fire but onely a temporall fire which should in time purge not onely them that had ended their liues in most horrible sinnes but also the diuels
to our purpose at length he saith that the Catholikes must vnderstande that all seruice of any honor and sacrifice is giuen of the Catholike Church together both to the Father and to the Sonne and to the holy Ghost that is to the holy Trinitie For though he that offereth directeth the prayer to the person of the Father this is not any preiudice to the Sonne or to the holy Ghost He declareth it thus because The conclusion of the same prayer for so muche as it hath the name of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost sheweth that there is no difference in the Trinitie Looke in the Canon of the Masse and you shall more easily perceiue his meaning The prayer there beginneth thus being directed to the Father Te igitur clementissime pater c. Therefore ô most mercifull Father with humble supplication we beseech thee for Iesus Christ his sake thy sonne our Lorde c. And it is in the ende concluded thus Per ipsum cum ipso in ipso c. By him and with him and in him is to thee God the Father in the vnitie of the holy Ghost all honor and glory world without ende Amen Wherevpon also among his instructions to his friend Petrus Diaconus which you alleage vnder the name of S. Augustine here cap. 10. dem 24. Fulg. alia◠Aug. de fi◠de ad Pet. Diac. ca. 19 béeing too light in very diuerse companies in his pilgrimage to Hierusalem he sayth Holde most firmely and in no wise doubt but to the Sonne with the Father and the holy Ghost they did sacrifice those beastes in the time of the olde Testament And to him nowe in the newe Testament with the Father and the holy Ghost cum quibus illi est vna diuinitas he hauing one Godhead with them the H. Churche Catholike ouer all the worlde ceasseth not to offer in fayth and charitie the sacrifice of bread and wine c. Therefore you might as well haue charged Christ him selfe for directing so likewise the prayer that he taught vs Our father c. v. Of ministring the blessed Sacrament to Infantes But the other error is he saith a notable error and suche a practise as euen the Papistes them selues will confesse to be erroneous This it was S. Augustine and Pope Innocentius and al the Catholike Fathers of that time and all the Westerne Church yea all the Church excepting none but only the Pelagians ministred the Sacrament of Christes body and bloud to Infantes yea and thought it as necessarie for them as Baptisme to wit that they must receiue it or els they should be damned And will not D. Allen deny this will the Papistes them selues confesse it for so you say boldly but in your boldnesse you open withall your wilfull ignorance Fulke neuer read the Councel of Trent Who would thinke it if your selfe did not by this confesse it that you neuer read the Councell of Trent And what a presumption is this for you to preach yea and to write against the doctrine of the Catholike Church nothing regarding eyther what it is or how it is explicated defended defined by occasion of your heresies of the Catholike Bishops in their Generall Councell As if an Arrian doctor should neuer haue séene the Councel of Nice Well our countrey men may perceiue by this what blind guides they haue of you Reade the Councel of Trent I exhort both you and all other that can specially that halfe of it which is of doctrine and you wil either imbrace it as it is most worthy and as I pray God to giue you the grace or at leastwise you shall better know therby what it is that you must confute where now most of you do commonly fight only with your owne shadowes either of ignorance or which is worse of wilfulnes not knowing what in déede we teache There to our present purpose you shall find the said Councel after that it hath said Trid. Con. Se. 21. ca. 4. That Infantes lacking the vse of reason are by no necessitie bound to the sacramentall receiuing of the Eucharist to declare moreouer and say Neque ideo damnanda est antiquitas c. Neither for all that is antiquitie to be condemned if it practised that maner sometime in some places For as those most holy Fathers had pro illius temporis ratione answerable to that time sui facti probabilem causam a reasonable cause of their so doing so verily that they did it not for any necessitie to saluation without controuersie it must be beleeued This declaration of the Councell may satisfie not onely all Catholikes to whom it is the declaration of the Holy Ghost him selfe but also any other reasonable man to whom it can not possibly be lesse then the declaration of many most learned and most discrete men which knew well what they said and that they could not be therin disproued In so much that Kemnitius the Lutheran Protestant not so much as once toucheth the Councell for this though he write of purpose against the Councell Yet for more satisfaction of all men I say further to open the case particularly The heresie of the Pelagians was that Man or Fréewill of man is still notwithstanding the fall of Adam See A◠ad quo haer 88 lagian◠sufficient of his owne naturall strength without Christ or the grace of Christe to saluation And so consequently they saide children to be borne in innocencie and not in sinne The Catholikes to proue the contrarie of children alleaged the necessitie of their Baptisme confirming it by that Scripture Except one be regenerate of water non potest introire in Regnum Dei he can not enter into the kingdome of God Ioan. 3 The Pelagians séeing so plaine a text confessed they Originall sinne No hereticall pertinacie would not let them but a straunge shifte they had They graunted vpon this text that children vnbaptized should not in déede come into the kingdome of God for lacke of Baptisme but yet for their naturall innocencie without Christ they should haue life euerlasting in a certaine other place out of the kingdome of God The Catholikes replyed against that vaine shift and alleaged this text Ioan. 6 Except ye eate the fleshe of the Sonne of man and drinke his bloud non habebitis vitam in vobis you shall not haue life in you Who now would accuse those Fathers of error Yea who would not admire in them such readines to replye so properly to the purpose or let any man stand vp and say that the Pelagians are not by this confuted and their children excluded as before from the kingdome of God so now also from life and so left in death and therefore in sinne and therefore againe not innocent and all this for lacke of the Grace of Christ in Baptisme But now putting the case that a childe were baptized and then immediately died before he receiued sacramentally the Eucharist who reading innumerable places
body before the generall Resurrection If that be so manifest what els was it then but the rest of his soule that Martha would haue Christ to pray for when she saide thus vnto him But also now I know that whatsoeuer things thou shalt aske of God God will graunt thee To whiche purpose also some auncient writers expound that place But to alleage places is not my intent here it is onely to answere your allegations And now hauing done with all your negatiues we are come to your affirmatiues ij Ab authoritate Scripturae affirmatiue First about certayne foundations of Purgatory and prayer for the dead For breuitie to speake ioyntly of Purgatory and of relieuing the soules that be there your affirmatiue allegations against both are leuied by you partly at the foundation of them partly at the two them selues And the foundations béeing diuerse you haue both seuerall shot agaynst the seuerals and also one common shot against all or many of them in common To eche sorte I shall with the helpe of God whose cause it is make answere most easily and most truely The distinction of Veniall and Mortall sinne And first D. Allen declareth out of the Doctors Pur. 126.127.128 what sinnes may be purged in Purgatory to wit not onely such as are Veniall of their owne nature but also suche as are mortall of their owne nature so that they were in Gods Church remitted afore Fulke sayth that This is manifestly ouerthrowen by the worde of God euen from the foundations For the foundation of this doctrine is the distinction of veniall and mortall sinnes Not so syr the doctrine is that mortall sinnes by the Churches remission become as veniall and you graunt it your self saying All sinnes except certayne of which your good exceptions I shall say more anone by Gods mercy are pardonable or veniall Thus you graunt the doctrine and yet you graunt not the foresaid distinction therfore the distinction is not the foundation of that doctrine but the doctrine may stand well without it But yet for other causes we must be content to sée what you alleage against the distinction The worde of God playnely determineth that euery sinne is mortall deserueth eternall death seeme it neuer so small So you say and you alleage thrée places for it The first Cursed is euery one that abideth not in all thinges that are written in the Lawe to fulfill them Deut. 27. I syr but find you in the Scripture no other Curse that is to say payne for sinne but eternall death Is it not written Cursed is euery one that hangeth on tree yet hāging on trée or crucifying Deut. 21. Gal. 3. is not eternall death Agayne euery one in that saying is meant by the Apostles exposition not of Christians but of them onely whiche trust in the lawe for it selfe who in déede can neuer attayne to no remission neither of their mortall nor of their veniall sinnes But we that holde of Christ and of his spirite are in case alwayes to receiue remission whensoeuer we sinne venially 1. Ioan. 1.3 for so we can But we can not sinne mortally holding I say Christ and his spirite And therefore if we do sinne mortally at any time depriuing our selues thereby of Christes spirite the remedie is to séeke for the same agayne by the Sacrament of penaunce and then are we in good case agayne as before Your other two places are these The soule that sinneth shall dye Ezech. 18. and The rewarde of sinne is death Rom. 6. S. Iames giueth vs the meaning of these suche like places where he saith Peccatum verò cum consummatum fuerit generat mortem Iac. 1. Sinne when it is consummate gendreth death But not so soone as it is gendred and yet it is sinne as soone as it is gendred Therefore some sinne there is which yet gendreth not death Marke the order Deinde concupiscentia cum conceperit parit peccatum peccatum verò cum consummatū fuerit generat mortem First commeth the temptation of our concupiscence as it were of a lewde woman Secondly concupiscence when she hath conceiued by obteining some light consent beareth sinne venial sinne Mary thirdly Sinne when it is consummate by our full and perfect consent yéelded vnto it gendreth or bringeth foorth death if the matter be of weight accordingly For els that the lightnes of the matter as an idle worde bringeth not death he sufficiently signifieth in saying that in a weightie matter the lightnes or imperfection of consent doth it not Whether after sinne remitted payne may remayne Now to another foundation to wit That culpa the fault both in Venial and in Mortal sinne may be forgiuen of God and of his Church and yet some payne though not eternall be owing for it sometime so that the same must in such case be in this life eyther payde or pardoned or els in Purgatory it wil be exacted Pur. 45. This is against Ezechiel saith Fulke What time soeuer a man doth truely repent the Lord doth put al his sinnes out of his remembraunce You might haue done well to quote the place where Ezechiel so saith ad verbum The trueth is that in a moment the repentaunce may be so great that there is no more remembraunce at all But Ezechiel if you meane the 18. Chapter speaketh of a longer time so that The wicked man must repent him of all his sinnes and keepe all Gods commaundementes and do right and iustice and then vita viuit non morietur when the day commeth to rewarde euery one according to his workes here He shall liue not dye All his iniquities that he worked I will not remember saith God for his iustice that he wrought he shall liue For otherwise who knoweth not those voyces Psal 24.78 Lord remember not the sinnes of my youth and Lord remember not our old sinnes Are they not the words of men which had already repented them acknowledging neuerthelesse that God may yet remember them Againe you say It is against Dauid Pur. 45.46 Psal 102. The Lord hath remoued our sinnes from vs as farre as the east is from the west Who may not say this for béeing remoued frō eternall damnation although he haue yet to abide neuer so much temporall punishment Howbeit those words as the whole Psalme are not spokē of the time of our first receiuing againe into the fauour of God by absolution but to magnifie his mercy in our finall restitution which shal be at the later day For which cause the Church very aptly singeth that Psalme vpon the feast of Christes Ascention Also out of the New Testament you say The Publicane Pur. 43. the Prodigall childe the Debters all clearely remitted do playnely proue that God frely forgiueth iustifieth rewardeth the penitent sinners without exacting any punishment of them for answering of the debt satisfying for the sinnes abusing his fatherly clemēcie Luk. 7.15.18 You speake here very indefinitely as though God
Apoc. 3. And if you yet doubt by what they ouercome whether by the Lambes bloud alone or also by theyr owne patient confession or affliction vnto death it is written there agayne And they ouercame the diuell by the bloud of the Lambe and by their owne martirdome dia â—on logoâ—â—es martyriâ—s auâ—on and loued not their life euen vnto death Apoc. 12. And S. Paule accordingly calleth it 2. Cor. 4. the mortification of Iesus when the Apostles were mortified for Iesus and saith they carried the same about continually in their bodies that also the life of Iesus might be manifested in their selfe same bodies at the latter day which is the same thing that the Apocalipse calleth to appeare before the throne in white stoles Wherby you sée that as the bloud of Christ so by it martyrdome also worketh such glory For so it foloweth there again This our affliction although it is but short and light operatur worketh vs euerlasting weight of glory exceding measure aboue measure Because affliction here for Iesus doth so wash our stoles or bodies therefore it procureth that they shal be so glorious in the Resurrection this say these Scriptures And so much of the foundations and by occasion of them Now to Purgatorie it selfe and prayer for the dead Secondly directly of Purgatorie it selfe and praier for the dead whether all the elect goe straight to Heauen Afore Christes comming Limbus patrum Directly against Purgatory prayer for the dead you shoote diuers arrowes or rather cockshotles so deadly are the woundes that your shot doth make First you will proue by many and euident Scriptures that all the Elect do go yea and alwayes from the beginning of the world haue gone straight to heauen therefore neuer no Purgatory neuer no Limbus Patrum Whiche if you can do your skill in the Scripture no doubt farre passeth all the auncient Doctors were they neuer so wel studied therin For they all could not finde so muche as one text that all or any one also went to heauen before Christ yea and not many textes Vide Sander monar li. 7. pag. 518.520 Pur. 57. that any one after him also goeth thither before the generall Resurrection but rather very many textes that vntill the Church within these 300. yeres defined the contrarie made it very probable that none are there till then Well thus you begin That the Fathers of the Old law before Christ were not in hell it is to be proued with manifest argumentes and authorities out of holy Scriptures But first you thinke necessary to answere one text that stoode in your way saying Although they were not nor yet are in perfect blessednesse God prouiding a better thing for vs that they without vs should not be made perfect Heb. 11. By that they of the old Testament wer not made perfect or consummate without vs of the new Testament S. Paule there doth meane euidently that their Soules were not yet admitted into heauen As in that whole Epistle he sheweth that the Old Testament did consummate nothing but contrariwise Heb. 7. Heb. 10. Heb. 9. that it made continually euery yere a commemoration of their sinnes because they remayned still and were not perfectly remitted and therefore that Christe dyed In Redemptionem earum praeuaricationum quae erant sub priore Testamento To buye out the preuarications that were all that while that so at length the heires might attayne the euerlasting inheritance which was promised Heb. 9. Nondum enim propalatam esse Sanctorum viam adhuc priore tabernaculo habente statum For the way into Sancta or heauen was not yet opened vntill the high Priest Iesus entred first thereinto Heb. 10. qui initiauit nobis viam nouam It was he that beganne this newe waye vnto vs who nowe therefore haue fiduciam in introitu Sanctorum Confidence to enter in after him béeing our forerunner into the same Sancta And all this is spoken of our Soules As for our bodies neither yet is the way open vnlesse Sancta were open when onely the High priest entred into them This was the prouidence of God for vs that we should not thinke we come to late if the Fathers soules had beene admitted in before vs. Confer the end of your owne text with the beginning of it Heb. 11. vt non consummarentur and non acceperunt repromissionem Sée how plainly he expoundeth their not consummating to be their not attayning of the promise And what promise Heb. 9. Confer this other place vt repromissioneÌ„ accipiant aeternae haereditatis That the heires might attayne the promise of euerlasting inheritance I might at large declare the same by the whole course of Scripture as D. Allen saith very well but that I am not here to alleage Pur. 439. but only to answere Well then against these most manifest Scriptures let vs heare the manifest authorities of Scripture which you pretend Pur. 57.58 For you say Seeing they all beleeued in Christ they had euerlasting life and entred not into condemnation but passed from death to life Io. 5. To what life but the life or resurrection of their bodies for vntill the last day all the dead are in death but then some shall come forth into resurrection of life some others into resurrection of damnation but he that beleeueth in me hath that is most certainly shall then haue Iohn 11. life euerlasting and commeth not into damnation but passeth from death wherein he hath so long bene to life This is the playne text of that place As likewise in all the New Testament lightly euery where life after corporall death signifieth the resurrection of the bodies where the soules be in the meane time here is neuer a word no nor of the Saintes of the old Testament afore the institution of Baptisme wherevnto beliefe in him giueth now accesse Ioa. 1. and 3 that belieuing in him they may haue life Io. 20. But their state we must gather out of other places of holy Scripture And to what end againe you say was Christ called the Lamb that was slayne from the beginning of the world but that the benefite of his passion extendeth vnto the godly of all ages alike This is your expounding of Scripture by Scripture you are a true man of your word The place is Apo. 13. Whose names were not written in the booke of life of the Lambes that was slaine froÌ„ the beginning of the world CoÌ„ferring it with this place Apo. 17. Whose names were not written in the booke of life from the beginning of the world you perceiue the error of your coÌ„struction It is not said that the Lambe was slayne from the beginning of the world but that all the reprobate shall adore Antichrist when he commeth as the Gospell also saith Mat. 24. that the Elect also should be then deceiued if it were possible Neuerthelesse that the Lambe was slayne from the beginning of the world is true though not in your fond
who expoundeth it of Martyrs which is there saide Blessed are the dead that dye in our Lord now after that the spirite saieth that they shall rest from their labours You reply saying that D. Allen vnderstanding it onely of Martyrs Aug. ca. 9. li. 20. de Ci. calleth Augustine to witnesse thereof but that it is spoken of all the faithfull and therefore ouerthroweth Purgatorie witnesse hereof I will not take of flesh and bloud say you sée what he maketh of S. Augustine but of the holy Ghost Rom. 14. wee all dye vnto the Lorde Your skill in the Scripture is great that make it all one to dye in the Lorde and to dye to the Lorde All that dye to the Lorde haue as the Apostle there sayth to make their accompt◠to him which may and will to some fall out to their damnation but blessed are al they that dye in the Lord. Wherefore these two are not all one True it is that all whiche dye well and in the Churches peace dye in our Lord as they are called also dormientes in Christo 1. Cor. 15. and mortui in Christo 1. Thes 14. they that slepe in Christ the dead in Christ wheresoeuer their Soules be after that sléeping and dying in heauen or in purgatorie But yet the place Apoc. 14. is verie well sayd of D. Allen to be spoken not of all that so dye but onely of martirs neither of al martirs but of them onely that shall suffer in the time and rage of Antichrist for so the circumstance of the letter playnlye geueth You therfore that wil haue one place always conferred with another consider the circumstance sée what goeth afore what commeth after and you shall finde that he speaketh of the last time exhorting the faithfull then not for any feare to adore the beast but to dye constantly in our Lorde for now the Resurrection is euen at hand and therefore their labours all at an end Feare the Lord saieth one Angel preaching to all the world at that time and geue honour to him because the very houre of his Iudgement is come and adore him adore not Antichrist And another Angell foloweth saying Cecidit cecidit downe downe is fallen Babilon And another Angell If any adore the beast he shal be tormented in fire and brimstone for euer and euer Then a voyce from heauen Blessed are the dead that will not adore the beast but dye in the Lord. Now after this the Spirite sayth that they shall rest from their labours For their workes that is their rewarde do folow them now at hand And immediatly there after commeth forth the Iudge vpon a white cloude and the Siethes and downe goeth al the world Lo this is the circumstance Wherby you sée the place saith not so much as those Martyrs to be at rest so soone as they dye but onely within a very short time after This is the place that quite ouerthroweth Purgatory And so I haue examined all that you alleage for going straight to heauen Another way you procéede against Purgatory and prayer for the dead by the Iudgement which is after this life Whether the Iudgement may stand with Purgatory The tree whether it fall to the South or the North Pur. 436.439.441 it lieth euer where it lighteth Eccl. 11. Your cōmentary vpon this place is that the fall of the tree to the south or to the north is the iudgement of God concerning euery man either of rewarde or of punishment which can not be altered after a mans death and therefore by this place prayers be not profitable Why who saith that prayers shall so alter their iudgement Some be iudged to heauen but differred as they in Limbo at the very same time when this was written and others not so good both then and nowe in Purgatory To bring these to heauen wherevnto they be so iudged prayers do serue And this differring is signified by the Wiseman euen in the same place quia post tempora multa inuenies illum He exhorteth them to doe almesdéedes and all other good workes that they can because a great while after thou shalt finde it The trée that fell in the South it may be a good while after before he be all trimmed For not the soule onely but also the body falleth to be rewarded or punished And who séeth not how long after the fall it is before the body haue accordingly Only before his fall let euery one looke to his workes for after the fall Luc. 16. he shal find Chaos magnum a huge distance betwene the north and the south and therefore no possibilitie of remouing from the one to the other This is the sense of that place as D. Allen told you before and your reply against it is tootoo friuolous For you say that then they should alwayes lye in Purgatorie because the certeintie of their saluation is as great before they were borne as after they be dead Certaintie of their saluation that by him the Wiseman speaketh of riseth after their dying in grace of the vnalterable iudgement that by your self the Wiseman speaketh of and it is the impossibility of remouing to the north or to damnation What maketh this against remouing out of Purgatory into heauē which is not remouing out of the south into the north but onely further into the south euen into the finall place that straight after his fall both his soule and body were iudged vnto You argue againe of the Iudgement saying Pur. 281. Immediatly after death foloweth Iudgement but prayers either neede not or boote not when the party is eyther acquited or condemned by the sentence of the Iudge which as S. Augustine saith can not be indifferent betwene reward and punishment De lib. arb li. 3. cap. 23. S. Augustine saith there the contrarie rather as you shall sée if you reade the place And to your argument I say In that iudgement some be condemned to hell for whom prayers boote not Others be acquited from hel and of these some straight rewarded in their soules and so prayers néede not but not yet rewarded in their bodies and for that therfore they pray Apoc. 6. vntill they be heard Apoc. 11. Others not straight rewarded neither in their soules And of these againe some without poena sensus punishment of sense only differred as they in Limbo who prayed accordingly no lesse then the foresaid for the redemption of their bodies Others first to be punished temporally according to their debtes Mat. 5. to wit for being angry or saying Raca and them to be not onely let out of their prison because it is not Gehenna ignis for they said not Fatue but also rewarded for their merites And for these againe while they be in prison prayers as they néede so also they boote because the Iudge is mercifull And so you sée no lesse then thrée sortes which your diuision lacketh Pur. 436.444 And therby at once is answered your other obiectiō of the
wide way and the narrow way Mat. 7. If there be but two wayes in this life you say there are but two abiding places after this life In the wide way of breaking Gods commaundementes some go wider then some with infinite varietie yet al in the wide way and these after death go to damnation namely their soules and straight to damnation because they haue nothing to stay thē out of it so much as a minute of an houre In the narrow way of keping Gods cōmaundements some go narrower then some with infinite varietie likewise yet all in the narrow way and these after death go to life though not straight in body none of them neither in soule also many of them because they haue somewhat to stay them out of it for a time to wit temporall debt of veniall sinne also of mortal sinne forgiuen but the due penance not fully payed nor fully pardoned And so you sée that the two wayes of this life stande well ynough with Purgatorie Pur. 436.444 Againe you alleage that it is written of the Iudgement 2. Cor. 5. we shall all stand before the Iudgement seate of Christ to receiue ech of vs the own of his body according as he did either good or euill Not D. Allen but as he alleageth S. Augustine Aug. Ench. cap. 100. Dion Ec. Hier. ca. 7. as also S. Dionisius Areopagita answereth that the Churches praying for the dead is nothing repugnant herevnto because the dead in our Lord in his life deserued that these workes after his death might be profitable vnto him And to this answer you haue no reply to mainteine that Scripture against such prayer Onely you oppose a saying of S. Hierom very fondly as in the next chap. I wil shew Once againe you reason of the Iudgement If Purgatory be so necessary to satisfie Gods iustice by temporall paynes of sinners Pur. 85. according to the time c. and Purgatory shal cease at the day of Iudgement as you affirme out of Augustine how shall the same be satisfied in such as dye immediatly before the day of Iudgement so that they haue not had time inough ther to be sufficiently purged The like may be demaunded of all them which in a moment shal be changed from mortalitie to immortalitie at the very comming of Iesus Christ to Iudgement These questions M. Allen will trouble your head to answere and retayne your former principles Two doughtie questions Where did D. Allen set downe that principle that Purgatory is necessary to satisfie according to the time I finde where he saith Pur. 44. If any debt or recompence remayne to be discharged by the offender after his reconcilement it must needes rise by proportion weight continuance number and quantitie of the faultes cōmitted before Wherby it must of necessity be induced that bicause euery man can not haue time to repay all in his life that there is all or some parte answerable in the world to come Here we haue continuannce of the faultes and time of his life but time of Purgatory that you haue to tell vs where you had it The truth is that a shorte time in Purgatorie will so pay the sinner that it had bene better for him to spende much longer time in penance as in this life also a litle while in fire passeth I trow the payne of longer time in fasting c. Neither is it hard for god to punish one in the shortest time as gréeuously as an other in 1000. yeres Nor again repugnant to his mercy to remit suche punishment at the request of his glorious Saints which is S. Augustines answere to your obiection as he nowe doth to the like for the Churches prayers Aug. de Ci. li. 21. ca. 24.27 Lo what a hard thing it was to answere your Demaundes Whether Faith Hope and Gods Will may stande with Purgatory After these two assaylings of Purgatory by going straight to heauen and by the iudgement there remayneth your third last assault Pur. 421. wherein you say to vs We learne by Scripture that your doctrine is contrary to the faith and hope of Christians And how shew you that Pur. 382. If it be against the hope of Christians to mourne for the dead much more it is against the faith and hope of Christians to pray for them For by our prayer we suppose them to be in miserie whom the word of God doth testifie to be in happines to be at rest to be with Christ Io. 17. Apoc. 14. Neither those Scriptures nor any other by you alleaged as I haue shewed do testifie that all straight after death be so and therefore to suppose some of them to be in miserie and so to pray for them is not proued to be against the worde of God Neither to mourne for some yea and for all is saide to be against Hope I would haue you knowe that they shal rise againe saith the Apostle to the end that you mourne not for them 1. Thes 4. sicut et ceteri qui spem non habent in such sorte as others that haue not hope of their Resurrection So then there is one maner of mourning without hope and there is another maner of mourning with hope and such is our mourneing with prayer When Christ praied for his own Resurrection Psal 15. Act. 2. did that argue him to be voide of hope or rather to haue hope When also we all pray for the generall Resurrection Thy kingdome come and mourne and grone for the dilation do we against hope doe we not rather most manifestly declare oure hope thereby Moreouer you saye there To that which is required of the expresse worde of God forbidding prayers for the dead we answere that all places of the Scripture that forbid prayers without faith forbid prayers for the dead For faith is not euery mans vayne perswasion but an assurance out of the word of God Which because we can not haue in praying for the dead therefore we are forbidden to pray for them This argument supposeth Cap. eodē part 1. that the word of God is onely Scripture which you can not proue as in the one place here aboue I haue declared Againe it supposeth that prayer for the dead is not assured by Scripture which besides the most expresse place of the Machabées and diuers others now shall another euident place control euen the same place that you alleage against vs. Thus you say Pur. 281. We learne out of Gods word that whatsoeuer we do pray for according to Gods wil we shal obteine 1. Io. 5. Therefore this one Hatchet shall cut a sunder al Prayers for the dead are not according to the wil of God and therefore they are not heard at all I denie the Minor you haue not nor can not proue it Yea I say further It is agaynst that which the Apostle there both intēdeth and expresseth to wit that we should pray for our brethren after they be dead if
he say the contrarie For these be his wordes That forgiuenes of his sinnes was graunted that he might not be stopped from receiuing life euerlasting and yet the effect of that same threatening followed that his godlines mighte in that humilitie be exercised and proued not onely but also as he saide in another place that he might thereby be beaten temporally for his deserts though he expresse not this cause also in this place for that he had here to answere the Pelagians and shewe some cause why death if it came onely by sinne by originall sinne remaineth still vpon all men euen them also whose originall sinnes are so fully forgiuen in Baptisme that they owe nothing neither eternally neither temporally for them Pur. 43. But for a slat conclusion contradictory to M. Allens assertion I will vse you say the very words of Chrysostome in the 8. Hom. vpon the Epistle to the Rom. Vbi veniâ— ibi nulla erit poena Where there is forgiuenes there is no punishment One may sée by this that you would vse the Doctors words as couragiously as we do if they were on your side as they be on ours But it cooleth your courage because you are faine to coÌ„fesse them in many things to be playne against you and not able neither to mainteine that they be with you when you pretende they be As here S. Chrysostome speaketh of the forgiuenes geuen in Baptisme to the Iew passing from the wrath of the Lawe to the grace of Christ But our assertion speketh of the forgiuenes geuen in the Sacrament of penance to the Christian that hath shamefully dishonored the grace of Christ If such be contradictories with you then as your Diuinitie is new so is your Logicke also new Satisfaction Pur. 87. Against the third you alleage Chrysostome Ambrose but how fondly the very words that you alleage though we seeke no further Chryso de compun cordis li. 1. in fine will declare Non requirit Deus ciliciorum pondus c. God requireth not the burden of shirtes of heare saith Chrysostome nor to be shut vp in the straites of a litle Cell neque iubet neither doth he commaunde vs to sit in obscure darke Caues this only it is which is required of vs that we alwayes remember and â—count our sinnes c. He there reproueth them that 〈…〉 â—rie mourning for their owne soules quasi quidum 〈◊〉 labor sit as if it were a labour intolerable Therefore he saith that God doth not commaund as necessarie that 〈…〉 take him selfe to the straite â—mourning of Monkes 〈…〉 And 〈◊〉 forsooth do tell vs therupon that Chrysostome â—f any man had 〈…〉 â—ther beleeue him speaking of such kind of wo◠〈…〉 his fellowes count to be the chiefe works of pâ—n 〈…〉 that they serue not for satisfaction for our sinnes vnto God 〈…〉 againe Therfore by Chrysostomes iudgement that 〈…〉 satisfaction of Gods righteousnes nor any obedience of Gods commaundement hath banished the Heremites 〈…〉 Anachoretes and cloyed the world with cloysterers but the superstitious and slauish feare of Purgatorie and the blasphemous presumptuous pride of mens merites Thus you take on as it were vpon S. Chrysostomes saying not considering that Demetrius was a Monke to whom he there writeth commending 〈◊〉 singulerly for the very same works of penance 〈…〉 nor that Chrysostome also him selfe was a Monke and that by your owne coÌ„fession and wrote a booke which is extant Aduersus vituperatores vitae Monasticae Against the dispraysers of the Monasticall life that is euen against you also for saying as you do in this place Againe you say Pur. 8â— Aâ— in 〈◊〉 22. li. 1â— What S. Ambrose thinketh of that kind of satisfaction whereof M. Allen speaketh is plaine by those words which he vttereth of Peter Lachrymas eius lego satisfactionem non lego I reade of his teares I reade not of his satisfaction He vttereth these words also there immediatly before Non inuenio quid dixerit inuenio quod fleuerit I find not what he said I find that he wept Whatsoeuer you gather hereof he that readeth the place must néedes gather the contrarie so wit that he thinketh Confession necessarie and satisfaction necessarie but that teares are both a special kind of coÌ„fession for Lachrymae crimen sine offensione verecundiae coÌ„â—tentur Teares confesse the crime without touch of shamfastnes quod voce pudor est consiterâ— that to confesse with voyce is a shamefast thing and also a speciall kind of Satisfaction forLachrymae veniam Teares though they do not aske pardon they obteine it Which yet againe he saith not as though onely teares woulde serue but Peteâ— opened not his mouth least so quicke requesting of pardon might more offend First we must weepe and then request But a playne place to know what S. Ambrose thought of Penance and Satisfaction is his whole booke To the Virgin that had broken her vow and namely these words Ambro. ad virg lapsaÌ„ ca. 8. Pur. 84. Grande sâ—elus grandem habet necessariam satisfactionem For a passing great crime is necessarie a passing great satisfaction Which words import none other thing you say but that an haynous offence must be earnestly bewayled if repentance be not counterfaited As though he there doubted lest her repentance were counterfaite and not earnest saying yet vnto her Tu quae iam ingressa es agonem poenitentiae Thou who art already entred into the or exercise field of penance with muche more to the same effect declaring I say that he tooke her penance to be vnfaigned as béeing well begon but yet besides that her whole life is litle enough to make iust satisfaction vnto God Pardons Wherein he is so vehement that you come agayne on the other side touching our fourth Article and pretende by the same word of his that the Church can not pardon the penance or satisfaction which sinners do owe. Where I say nothing how you ouerthrow your owne ignorant imagination that the old Canonicall satisfaction was onely to satisfie the Church ur 8 5. and not to satisfie Gods iustice As though not only the Church but also euery priuate man may not pardon such kind of satisfaction as the sinner oweth to him and hold himselfe contented with as litle as he list Therfore to omit this He assureth her you say as Cyprian in his Sermon de Lapsis doth the fallen men of his time that forgiuenes of sinnes is proper vnto God onely and followeth not of necessitie the sentence of men but the sentence of men ought to follow the iudgement of God Pur. 73. Alluding belike to the place where somewhat afore you alleaged Cyprian gathered of his words that not onely he plainly denieth that absolute soueraigne authority of men which M. Allen affirmeth but also declareth what he meaneth by satisfaction of God to wit inwarde and hartie conuersion The two places in déede are like although the fall of that
often as aboue in his Enchiridion graunteth the same fire to be also for the said mortall sinnes if one haue left committing of them but not yet fully redéemed them poenitentiae medicamentis with the plaisters of penance viij Of Limbus patrum And now we are come to your Doctors that you alleage agaynst Limbus Patrum The one is S. Augustine Pur. 56.60 Au. ep 99. of whose most cleare testimonie alleaged by D. Allen Because the (a) Act. 2. Scriptures make euident mention both of hell and of paynes I see no other cause why our Sauiour came thither according as we beleeue nisi vt ab eius doloribus saluos facerit But to ridde some of the paynes therof Fuisse enim apud inferos in eorum doloribus constitutis hoc beneficium praestitisse non dubito I am out of doubt that he was in hell and that he bestowed that gratious benefite vpon some that were in the paynes therof You are fayne to say that it is but the authoritie of a man But you haue another place a Gods name Where he semeth vtterly to deny that he came in that prison of hell And to make all sure you imagine what we will answere to it and then you make your reply But all besides the text like one that neuer saw the booke For he saith there as plainly as in the other place Fuit apud inferos Christi Anima diuinitas Aug. in Felicianū Arrianū ca. 17 18.15 Both the soule and the diuinitie of Christ was in hell But for what cause Vt anima animas reparet That his soule might repayre our soules and as aboue he said deliuer some soules out of their paynes there But not to suffer any paines there it selfe as the Arrians did blaspheme For if saith he in the words that you alleage his or the good théefes for it may be vnderstoode of either body being dead his soule is immediatly called to Paradise do we thinke any man yet so impious that he dare say our Sauiours soule in that three dayes of his bodily death apud inferos custodiae mancipetur is in hell committed to prison Lo syr what he vtterly denieth to wit that his soule was committed there to prison not that it came in that prison as to deliuer the prisoners Your other Doctor is S. Ireneus whom D. Allen first alleaged saying manifestly Pur. 55.59 Iren. lib. 3. cap. 33. that Adam was Implens tempora eius cōdemnationis quae facta fuerat propter inobedientiam Fulfilling the times of that condemnation which came by disobedience vntill our Lord came and then solutus est condemnationis vinculis he was released of the bonds of his condemnation And you answere that the name of Adam seemeth to be takē in these words rather for a name common signifying all mankinde then for a proper name Iesu how blindly Do you not know that he reporteth li. 1. ca. 31. that the proper Heresie of Tacianus was Adae saluti contradictionem faciens His ignorance that he gainsaide the saluation of Adam and after him S. Augustine Haer. 25. Saluti primi hominis contradicunt The Tacianistes gaynsay the saluation of the first man And do you not sée that he disputeth against that Heresie in the said place li. 3. euen from cap. 33. to 39. But you haue another place of his Iren. lib. 5. in fine where he plainly ouerthroweth our fantasie in that he saith of the place where Christes soule was those thrée dayes that it was suche a place as all his disciples shall rest in vntill the time of the generall Resurrection He saith not so he disputeth agaynst those old Heretikes Who said that immediatly assoone as they were dead they ascended aboue heauen and aboue the Creator and came to the mother or to their fayned father leauing their body for euer neuer to rise againe and therefore attayning al perfection and the highest promotion at once S. Irenée therfore auoucheth against them not only the Resurrection but also the order of the Resurrection and saith that if this were so then our Lorde giuing vp his Ghost vpon the Crosse would straight haue gone vpwarde leauing his body to the earth But he did not so Three dayes he conuersed where the dead were in the inferior parts of the earth in the middest of the shadow of death And then after that he arose corporally and after his resurrection was assumpted Séeing therefore no disciple is aboue his master saith he it is manifest by this that also his disciples soules shall goe he saith not into the same place but in inuisibilem locum definitum eis a deo into an inuisible place appoynted for them by God and there shall tarrie vntill the resurrection abiding the resurrection and afterwards receiuing agayne their bodies and rising perfectly that is corporally sic venient ad conspectum Dei so shall come to the sight of God to wit the whole man both in soule and body So he may well be vnderstood because the Soule of Christ also had the sight of God before his Resurrection Yet supposing that he thought neither so muche as the Soules to sée God before the Resurrection as some other Doctors did thinke vntill it was of late defined by the Church as I noted afore in the eight chapter yet that doth not declare as you pretende that he thought of Limbus Patrum otherwise then we do For you heard him saye afore that Adam at our Lordes comming was released out of that place béeing a place of captiuitie and nowe by him his soule is in that other inuisible place Whereof it followeth manifestly that by him the former place is not al one with the later And so thankes be to God I haue fully answered all that you alleage against Purgatorie or any other Article of the Catholike faith according to my promise in the beginning of this Chapter Whereby the Reader may perceaue perfect vnitie of faith to be betwixt the Fathers then and vs now notwithstanding all that you could bring And that so euidently that in most matters in most of the Fathers you were faine to pretend no lesse that one and the same man was not in vnitie with him selfe so that this chapter néeded not so much for defense of our doctrine as for the defense of the Doctors them selues against your childish and arrogant detractions ¶ The tenth Chapter That notwithstanding all which Fulke hath said against D. Allens Articles in his first booke beeing of that matter or also in his other of Purgatorie euery one of my 51. Demaundes and therefore also euery one of my Motiues and likewise euery one of those Articles standeth still in his force Euery one I say and much more al of them to make any man to be a Catholike and not a Protestant BY the Summes or Argumentes of the chapters aforegoing the Reader may perceaue that being laide together they make a manifolde euident demonstration to the condemnation of the
adoring her Esa 49.60 licking the very dust of her feete which they are cōmaunded by the Prophet to do vnder paine of Damnation Ar. 17. Discipline And thereupon D. Allen told you that to be the true Church Which exerciseth Discipline vpon offenders in all degrees And that al true the Christian Kings haue and doe obey her accordingly which is an vnuincible argument for vs against you in this Demaund And yet you haue Kings on your side also since the Reuelation of Antichrist Ar. 33.34.32 The Grecian Emperours that were Image-breakers Charles the great who wrote a booke against Images and called Bertrame to declare his mind vpon the Real presence and transubstantiation and those Princes that defended their maried Priests But least we should obiect that it was but in one or two poynts that these did fauour you Edward the third defended Wickleue Also Zisca Procopius defended the Bohemians and George king of Bohemia was depriued of his kingdome by the Pope for defending the Protestants An. 1466. Which is wel towards an hundred yeres before the name of Protestants by your own confession here Dem. 8. and much more before the religion of the Protestants was coyned For though you say Wickleue I wene you will not deny but he was of our Church and Religion yet you may sée in my 40. Dem. that in déede he was not neither also the Bohemians or Hussits But that Edward the third was a Wickleuist who euer heard though I denie not but that Catholike Princes are often times passing negligent in their office and othe to extirpate Heresies vntill by God and his Churches admonition on the one side and by the wast on thother side that Heretikes in time doe make both spiritually and temporally of all Common wealthes they be spurred therevnto The like absurd ignoraunce in stories or rather malice you and your brethren declare in saying that fonde booke against Images to be Charles the greates who was cleane contrarie Cop. Dial. 4. c. 18.19 Sander de Imag. li. 2. ca. 5. an enimie of the Image-breakers as is at large learnedly declared in M. Copes Dialogues Neither is it Carolus Magnus but Carolus rex brother to Lotharius the Emperor An. 840. by Trithemius to whō Bertrame wrote De corpore sanguine Domini Neither was that as the learned thinke for good causes this Hereticall booke which Oecolampadius set foorth vnder Bertrames name And is not this a substantiall reason He declared that he liked not the Real presence and Transubstantiation in that he called Bertrame to declare his mind of that matter How much better may I reason that both the Emperour or King and all Christendome held the Real presence and transubstantiation because this Bertrame durst not but so timerously about the bush after the maner of all heretikes in the beginning go against it as we sée in that booke No no syr As I said before of Nations so I say of Princes If any were euerted he might in some thing fall on your side But those Princes in al countries that were cōuerted from Paganisme also their Successors that continued in their steppes were in no poynt yours but ours in all things 20 In all Persecutions Motiue 15. Article 7. My 20. Dem. is of the persecutions both before the Emperours became Christians also afterwards whē some of thē were peruerted againe with Apostasie or Heresie saying that the Religion which we reade of in those times béeing the Religion of all Martyrs and by Fulkes confession here cap. 2. pag. 4. Pur. 258.312 Ar. 23.24.25 of the true Church is in al poynts ours and in no one poynt the Protestants And to this he hath nothing but only this that all true saints held the foundation Iesus Christ which we do in his sense he doth not in the true sense as I shewed cap. 5. and therefore forsooth it is proued that they all were of his Church notwithstanding he is fayne to say that some of them buylded straw and stubble vpon the foundation they were ours so playnly in many things as he confesseth cap. 3. yea and in all things as I shew cap. 9. In so much as they haue scraped most of their names out of the Callender wherof I shall speake more Dem. 46. Motiue 33. Article 14. 21. Churches In the 21. Demaund I chalenge for ours the auncient Christian churches with their furniture both afore and after the conuersion of the Romane Emperours also in our country namely as in all others And Fulke no lesse chalengeth them to his side here cap. 2. pag. 6. But before we come to the particulers let vs see his answere to D. Allens argument What if it were graunted that all Churches that now remayne Ar. 53. Pur. 339.340 that he addeth whereas D. Allen speaketh generally were buylded by Papists and for Popish vses what haue you wonne thereby As much as néedeth I thinke Why not For the same chalenge might the Idolaters haue made to the Apostles Shew vs a Temple in all the world that was not buylded by Idolaters and to mainteine Idolatrie Were that the same chalenge I pray you The Apostles renounced both those Temples and that Religion you renounce Popish religion but do you also renounce al Churches that now remayne If you do then you renounce also the Churches of the first 600. yeres for innumerable of them as at Rome c. now also remaine But because you may not leaue to vs the Churches of that time also for feare of afterclaps you thinke good to come to the matter and to say But for all your bragges we are able to shew that such Churches as were buylded by true Christians were not buylded to such end as yours are Constātinus Magnus was a true Christian with you also and of him I told you erewhile in the 19. Dem. out of Eusebius that he builded Apostolorum templum A temple of the twelue Apostles in his citie of Constantinople appoynting his owne body to lye in the midle of their 12. shrines Vt defunctus queque precationum quae ibidem essent ad Apostolorum gloriam offerendae particeps efficeretur That also after his death he might be partaker of the prayers whiche there should be offered to the Apostles glory And at his burial accordingly Much people with the Priests preces pro anima Imperatoris Deo fundebant made prayers to God for his soule And likewise to this day we sée saith Eusebius that he enioyeth there the diuine Ceremonies and the Mysticall Sacrifice the societie of the holy prayers This was his end among others and the same was the end of al our Church founders a Pur. 338. to 347. saith D. Allen. Not so saith Fulke for b Pur. 339. Ar. 52.57 Fulk is no babe you may see our Stories testifie that at the first conuersion of this Land to Christianitie the Temples of the Pagane Britons and of the Idolatrous
vnproperly because he also saith our bodies by mortification to be made a liuing Sacrifice Rom. 12. To knowe what is properly or vnproperly called this or that you should sée to the natures of the things in them selues And then séeing in Christes death open separation of his body from his bloud and in Consecration mysticall separation of them because the words do worke that which they signifie you should say in both those Christes body to be properly a Sacrifice as I told you likewise before cap. 6. pag. 47. but in perpetuall virginitie and other mortification because there is no such separation of our substantial partes but onely of our affections from vs they be called Sacrifices not properly but onely by a metaphore and similitude Well then what obiections haue you now against this Priesthood and Sacrifice of the Fathers and ours Either that it is none at all or that it is not a Sacrifice in Christes body as S. Augustine said First Out of doubt Pur. 294.295 if the bringing foorth of bread and wine had bene anye thing parteining to the Priesthood of Melchisedech the Apostle Heb. 7. would not haue omitted to haue compared it with Christ But the Apostle comparing Melchisedech with Christe in all thinges in whiche he was comparable neuer teacheth it as any part of his Priesthood If it were no part of his Priesthood what was it then It is playne by the text that Melchisedech beeing both a king and a Priest as a king liberally enterteined Abraham and his armie and as a Priest blessed him The text in our vulgar Latine translation is this Proferens panem vinum erat enim Sacerdos Dei Altissimi In your vulgar English translation this He brought foorth bread wine For he was the Priest of the most highest God And in the Hebrew the poynting declareth that also the Rabbins thēselues take it in the same sort as also the very words do signifie specially standing in such order And all our Fathers do agrée Cyp. ep 63. S. Cyprian shall suffice for all who declareth the order of Melchisedech De sacrificio illo venire to come of that Sacrifice not of euery Sacrifice but of that Sacrifice And more distinctly to descende of these thrée thinges quod Melchisedech Sacerdos Dei summi fuit that he was not a common Priest but the Priest of the highest God as S. Iohn Baptists preeminence among al the Prophets is signified by this word Propheta altissimi the prophet of the highest Luc. 1. quod panē vinū obtulit hauing said afore protulit which two you thinke cannot stand together that he offered not as other Priests but bread and wine Quod Abraham benedixit that he blessed not euery body but Abraham the father of al the faithfull of Christ And in déede who is so blinde not to sée the corresspondence in Christ but you onely that are not Abrahams children We Catholikes his children in faith and souldiers in confession of the same do sée playnly before our eyes our true Melchisedech as first by him selfe at his last Supper so stil by his ministers to bring forth bread and wine and thereof as our High Priest to offer for vs this most acceptable Sacrifice and as our king of kings who with so few loaues fed many thousands to prepare for vs this most Royal feast which we can neuer inough admire Mat. 14. 15. so singularly by this blessing both God and vs that the sacrifice and feast it selfe is named Benedictio and Eucharistia Blessing and Thankesgiuing Which S. Cyprian doth there prosecute very swéetely saying For who is more the Priest of the highest God then our Lord Iesus Christ who offered Sacrifice to God the Father and offered the same against those Aquarij who offered water in the Chalice and not wine which Melchisedeth had offered that is bread and wine suum corpus sanguinem his owne body perdie and bloud Also that blessing going afore about Abraham ad nostrum populum pertinebat belonged to our people saith he as a Bishop minister of the true Melchisedech To * The end of bringing foorth vvas to blesse as also S. Augustine said aboue the end therefore that in Genesis the blessing about Abraham might by Melchisedech the Priest be duely celebrated there goeth afore an Image of Christes sacrifice an image I say consisting in bread and wine c. Where is now your argumēt ab authoritate Heb. 7. negatiuè with your out of doubt contrarie to your owne Logike here cap. 8. pag. 134. For besides all this I aske you whether Melchisedeth were a Priest without all sacrifice at all If you say yea your Diuinity is contrary to Heb. 8. For euery high Priest is ordeined to offer giftes and sacrifices Note Wherefore it is necessary hunc habere aliquid quod offerat this Priest also to haue somwhat to offer If you say he had some sacrifice tell vs I pray you how he was comparable to Christ in his Priesthood vnlesse he were also in his Sacrifice considering that his Priesthood consisted in his Sacrifice And so you sée that he was comparable to Christ in some thing to wit in his Sacrifice supposing also that it was not the sacrifice of bread wine in which the Apostle compareth them not What a blindnes is this in you not to sée Melchisedech in his bread and wine so expresly mentioned to be comparable vnto Christ whereas by the Apostle also the very omitting of his father and mother and genealogie is in Genesis a shadowing of Christ séeing also bread and wine so notably vsed in the world by the institution of Christ Such is either your ignorance in the Scriptures or also peruersenes against your owne knowledge Your second argument may be where you take on like Caiphas Mat. 26. and say it is a blasphemie Pur. 298.299 c. for the Fathers and vs to say that we haue the Priesthood after the order of Melchisedech confirmed vnto vs by oth Psal 109. For then you saye we must be Christ him selfe with his eternall diuinitie and euerlasting natiuitie and sitting on the right hand Why syr doth not the Scripture likewise say that there is one Baptizer Ioan. 1. Mat. 3. Hic est qui baptisat and he such a one as vpon whom the holy Ghost cōmeth and abideth and to whom the Father saith This is my naturall sonne Must we then be said to blaspheme VVhat a doctor Fulke is and take al that to our selues if we say that we are baptizers You are a great Doctor forsooth so to argue No syr we are baptizers and priests Aug. de ci li. 17. c. 17. but as his ministers we offer Sub Sacerdote Christo quod protulit Melchisedech Vnder Christ the Priest saith S. Augustine and therfore he singulerly is the one baptizer and the one priest So were not all the rest in the time of the olde Testament the ministers of