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A72174 A briefe discourse of certaine points of the religion which is among the commõ sort of Christians, which may bee termed the countrie diuinitie with a manifest confutation of the same, after the order of a dialogue / compiled by George Gifforde. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1582 (1582) STC 11846; ESTC S5348 72,465 187

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of your mind in this thing are there Ath. Yes the greatest parte for I knowe almost none but they will affirnie this matter Zelot If the greatest part to bee of your mind wherefore is there not then a greate deale of loue and freendshippe where you say there is none why doe yee not beeing the most in number repayre the ruines of that olde faythfull friendshippe which yee say is decayed yee saye that there was loue and friendshippe and yee seeme to lament the want of them and yet there is none in your selues for yee be very full of malice and strife is there any buzzarde so blinde but that hee may espie your grosse follie and vanitie in this point whē with open mouth ye cry for loue loue and bee the greatest enemies thereunto your selues Moreouer yee followe your owne fonde and doating opinion that yee imagine a thing whiche neuer was for the Worlde hath euer beene like it selfe full of debate and strife a verie fewe in all ages whiche haue had true loue Againe you call none loue but that carnall loue whiche is in eating and drinking and other foolishe delightes That whiche is the true loue you condemne to bee hatred For if a man admonishe and reprooue you for anie naughtie vice which is the greatest loue by and by yee stampe and stare like madde men and saye nowe there is no loue except a man doe flatteryee and bee partaker of your foule and beastlie sinnes yee are at deadlie hatred with him But lett vs returne againe too Syr Robert yee sayde hee was as good a liuer as the best of them all Ath. I saye so still for he is content with his liuing many of your spirituall men are neuer satisfied for with that poore liuing he hath he doth kéepe a good house and doeth féede the poore Zelot You proue him to bee a good Liuer by comparing him with those whiche are woorse It is all one as if a manne woulde proofe a theefe whiche hath stollen twentie pounde too bee a good theefe because hee is not so euill as hee whiche hath stollen a thousande poundes Ath. Yée doe not well to compare true men with theeues Zelot Is not he a theefe which doth take the hire and doth not that which hee shoulde doe for it Ath. He is as good as a théefe I thinke so Zelot Doe not they robbe them whiche take the liuing and doe not feede the flocke Let mee aske yee a question if a man robbe and steale and then keepe a house and feast his neighboures with it and bee a Murtherer will his good house keeping make him a good Liuer Ath. No that it will not Zelot Let mee aske yee another question which is the worse murtherer hee whiche doth murther the body or hee whiche doeth murther the soule Ath. Hee whiche doeth murther the soule Zelot Then hee whiche shoulde feede mens bodies committed vnto hym and doeth pine them to death is a murtherer and hee which should feede mens soules and doth sterue them is a greater murtherer and so his good house keeping cannot make him a good man robbing so many and killing so many Ath. I will not beléeue that hee doth kill any Zelot That is because yee will not beleeue the saying of Christe if the blynde leade the blynde they both fal into the ditch nor that God will saue men by the woorde preached Ath. I hope wée bée not blinde I trust we beleeue all well Zelot You are blinde and should haue a guide to leade ye the way to heauen and to instruct yee in true godlinesse Ath. I will not learne the way to heauen of anie man for I hope I haue as good a faith and as good a soule to Godwarde as the best learned of them all Zelot Whereby doe you try your goodnesse and your faith any other way then by your owne blinde fantasie Ath. I meane well I hurte no man nor I thinke no man anye hurte I loue God aboue all and put my whole trust in him what woulde yee haue more they preache and teache they can tell vs no more but this when they haue all said what they can Zelot Nowe yee tumuble it vppe together in deede I see well it is no small trouble to bring an ignoraunt man for to see his folly Ath. I haue vttered my conscience if I saye not well I am readye for too learne Zelot What neede you learne when you knowe all afore hand euen as much as all the preachers can tell yee Ath. Yée take me at the woorst the wisest of vs all may learne Zelot You saide that yee loue GOD aboue all and you thinke no man no hurt I take it your meaning is that yee doe loue GOD with all your hearte and your neighbour as your selfe and more then this cannot be taught Ath. Wée should doe this if wée doe it not God forgiue vs. Zelot This is all is it not what needeth any more teaching Ath. Let men doe this firste and afterwarde if they will learne more let them Zelot Yee giue very graue aduise nowe if there were any to follow it Ath. I haue no learning but I thinke if men would doe this it woulde not bee so euil as it is Zelot If euery thing whiche is spoken truely be spoken wisely then you haue vttered a verye wise saying for I am sure there cannot be a truer I beleeue indeede yee haue no learning and I am sure as you saye if men should doe that there would not be so much euill among vs. Ath. Yée thinke peraduenture that I speake like a foole I woulde I were as wise as those which I heare say so Zelot Haue yee manye of these greate Wise men which woulde haue men first fulfill the ten Commaundements and then run to heare sermons Ath. All thinges are well spoken which are well taken if they bee not wise I praye God make them wise I haue nought to doe with them Zelot Yee are a playne man and haue skyll in outwarde thinges will yee giue mee leaue to aske you a question in a matter wherein yee haue vnderstanding Ath. I thanke God I dare answeare to a question Zelot Are ye a carpenter or a mason Ath. I haue no skill that way Zelot Then if there be a great house of tymber and stone to buylde you can not build it Ath. If there were no better builders then I there woulde not bee so manye gaye houses Zelot If one shoulde say here is a verie fayre house too bee buylded it is no more but to laye a good foundation too raise vp the walles and to finish the roofe you knowe this all therefore ye canne buyld it for ye know all Ath. I know this is all but I can do neuer a whit of it vnles a carpenter or a buylder doe teach me Zelot Ye say well euen so to loue GOD with all our hearte with all our mynde and our neighbour as our selfe is all but wee knowe not howe to doe