ther the soules that must be prayed for are departed in the lorde or not And they must nedes answere that thy are departed in the lorde for the vnfaithfull which dye not in the lorde must not be prayed for And therfore must they be vpright Christen soules which are toutmented for the other are all dampned Now saith y e tex te that all such deed as dye in the lorde are blessed but what blessednesse were that to broyle in purgatorie And if they wolde here fayne a glosse as their maner is when they are in a strayte ever to seke a starttinge hole aÌ„d saye that they are blessed because they are in a good hope although they haue not yet the rest but must sufâ—…er before in purgatorye that evasion will not â—…his texte suffer for the texte saieth y t they rest and are in peace as Esaias also sayeth in y e. 〈◊〉 that the rightwyse and everye faithfull man is rightwyse in the sight of god as we haue ofteÌ„ proved before wheÌ„ he departeth resteth in peace as in a bedde And sapiencie iij. it is sayed y t the rightwyse soules are in peace And so is it not possible that there shulde be such a paynefull purgatorye Thus haue we confuted Rastell both his ar gumentes and also solucions for all that he wri teth is false and agenst scripture Furthermore we haue brought in to proue that there can be no such purgatorye l. argumentes all grounded on scripture And if neade were a maÌ„ might ma ke a thousande of which oure cleregie shuld not be able to avoyde on Here I thinke some men will wondre that I haue the scripture so full on my syde because that there are certen men as my lorde of Rochestre and Sir Thomas More which by scripture go aboute to prove purgatorye this is sure that scripture is not contrarye vnto it silfe Therfore it is necessarye that we examine the textes which they bringe in for their purpos se markinge y e processe both what goeth before and whate cometh after And theÌ„ shall we easelye perceave the truthe and how these two meÌ„ haue bene pituouslye deceaved First I will answere vnto Master More which hath in a maner nothinge but that hâ—… toke oute of my lorde of Rochestre although he handle it more suttellye And what so ever is not answered in this parte shalbe touched and fullye convinced in the thirde which shal be a severall boke agenst my lorde of Rochestre ☜ ¶ Thus endeth the first boke ¶ The seconde boke which is an answere vnto Sir Thomas More ☜ MAster More begineth with the selye soules of purgatorye and maketh them to wayle and lament that they heare the worâ—… de waxe so faynte in the faith of christ that any man shuld ne ade now to prove purgatorye to christeÌ„ men or that any man coulde be founde which wold in so greate a thin ge so fullye and fastlye beleued for an vndouted article this xv hundred yeare beginne now to staggar and stande in doubte 〈◊〉 â—…erelye me thinketh it a foule faute so sore to stomble eveÌ„ at the first It were agreate blot tâ—… for him if he shuld be compelled by good auctorite to cutte of iiij hundred of his forsayed numbre Now if we can not onlye proue that he must cutte off that iiij hundred yeare but also bringe witnesse that it was neyther at that tyme beleued for an article of the faith nor yet for an vndoubted truth then I thinke ye wold sup pose this man sum whate out of the waye And that will I proue by goddes grace S. Augustyne was iiij hundred yeare after Christ. And yet in his tyme was it not fullye and fastlie beleved for an article of the faith no nor yet fullye and fastly beleved to be true For he him selfe writeth in his enchiridion on this maner speakinge of purgatorye After he expounded y â— place of Pau le 1. Corin. 3. and had taken this worde fyre not for purgatorye but for temptacion and tribula cioÌ„ he added these wordes in y â— 69. chaptre It is not incredible that such a thinge shuld also chaunce after this liffe and whether it be so or not it maye be questioned 〈◊〉 Of these wor des maye we well perceaue that he counted it not for an article of the faith neyther yet for an vndoubted truth for if it had bene an article of the faith or an vndoubted truth then wolde he not haue sayed potest etiam queri that is to sa ye it maye be questioned doubted or moved for those holye fathers vsed not to make questions and doubtes in articles of the faith amonge theÌ„ selves neyther yet in soch thinges as were vndoubted true They vsed not to dispute whether Christ dyed for oure sinnes and rose agayne for oure iustificacion but onlye beleued it Be sides that the occasion why he wrote y â— boke entitled enchiridtoÌ„ was this There was one Laurencius a christen man which instantlye requyred of Sain Austayne that he wolde wryte him a forme of his belefe which he might continuallye vere in his hande and where vn to he shuld sticke Uppon this wrote him S. Austy ne this litle boke where in he coÌ„maundeth him not fullye and fastlye to beleue these are Master Mores wordes that there was a purgatorye buth sayed that it maye be questioned doub ted or moued whether there be soch a place or not Of this haue we playne evidence y t it was none article of the faith in S. Austaynes tyme which was iiij hundred yeare after Christ ney ther yet vndoubted truth And so maye all men se that master More is sore deceaved and sette on the sonde even at the first brunte and in the beginninge of his viage His second reason that he hath to proue purgatorye is this The verye miscreauntes aÌ„d idolatres Turkes Saracenes and paynims ha ue ever for the most parte thought and beleued that after the bodyes are deceased the soules of such as were neyther deedlye dampned wretches for euer nor on the tother syde so good 〈◊〉 that their offences done in this worlde haue deserved more punishment then they had suffered and sustayned there were purged and punished by payne aster the deeth ere ever they were admitâ—…ed vnto their welth rest And so must there nedes be a purgatorye I answere if it were lawfull to requyre wy sedom in a man so wyse as Master More is counted here wold I wysh him a litle more witte for I thinke there is no wyseman that will gra unte this to be a good argument the Turkes Saracenes paynims Iewes beleue it to be tr ue ergo we must beleue that it is true for I wil shew you a like argument The Turkes Sara cenes paynims and Iewes beleue that we haue not the right Christ but that we are all dampned which beleue in Christ. Is it therfore true shall we turne oure faith because they
a light repentaunce shuld be sufficieÌ„t with out any other satisfaccion to be made it shuld be an occasion to destroye all vertue and encrease vice aÌ„d sinne to y â— vtter destruccioÌ„ of the comen welth quyet lyuinge of y â— people And thus he maketh an 〈◊〉 As to the first where he sayeth that it wold put awaye the dreade of god and geue boldnes to sinne if we thought there were no purgatorye we se and maye evidentlye perceaue the con trarye all daye both in yonge and olde of them that beleue there is a purgatorye The yoÌ„ge sa ye I will take my pleasure whyle I maye and if I maye haue but one houâ—…es respite to crye god mercye I care not for then shall I go but to purgatorye aÌ„d so shall I be sure to be saued The old saye I will kepe my goodes as longe as I maye for I wotte not what nead I shal haue But when I die I wyll crye god mercye aÌ„d then shall I go but to purgatorye and myne executours that haue my goodes shall redeme me thence well ynough And so to beleue purgatorye is rather an occasion of rechlesse boldenesseâ—… then of the feare of god Besydes that if they knews that there were no purgatorye theÌ„ 〈◊〉 de manye the more feare god do well them selues not trust to their executoures for feare of daÌ„pnacioÌ„ how be it as I haue saied bâ—…fore they y â— feare not god but for payne whether it be of hell or purgatorye are yet vnder condeÌ„pnacion aÌ„d not in goddes fauoure And this dare I bold lye afferme that they which feare not god but for purgatoryes sake shall neuer come in it no nor yet in heaven And therfore it is but folye to imagine purgatorye for that entent As coÌ„cerninge y â— seconde poynte If the people beleued y t they neded not to make satisfaccioÌ„ to their neyghboures for their trespaces cÌ„ I haue sufficieÌ„tlye aÌ„swered before y â— we must make satisfaccioÌ„ vnto oure neyghboures if we be able or els will god never forgeue vs. And if we be not able yet must we knowlege oure offeÌ„ce and theÌ„ is oure neyghboure bounde to forgeue vs vnder y â— payne of daÌ„pnacioÌ„ And so can this pro ue no purgatorye Now as touchinge y â— thir de y t if they beleued y â— such a light repentaunce were sufficieÌ„t with out any other satisfaccioÌ„ it shuld be an occasioÌ„ of vice subuersioÌ„ of y â— comeÌ„ welth I answere as I haue done before al most in euerie argumeÌ„t sith thou arte ignoraunte of Christes deeth and his satisfaccion vnto the father for vs that al the repentaunce which we can take is not sufficient to countrepayse one cryme but that if Christ were not we shuld albe dampned Here will I leave Rastell hys turcke Gingemin wyth all thyce naturall phylosophye whych ys now proued folishnes for hetherto hath he proued no purgatorye neyther hath he one good reason nor yet to that varen reasons one good solucyon as we haue sufficieÌ„tlye declared But let vs heare 〈◊〉 what more of goddes worde and se how purgatorye stondeth wyth that Paule sayeth we must all be brought before the iugement seate of christ that euery man maye receaue accordinge to the workes of hys bodye whether yt be good or badde 2. Cor. 5. yf thys be true then can there be no purgatorye whych shall profyte hym after he is dyssolued from hys bodye for then shuld he not receaue accordinge to the workes of hys bodye But rather accordinge to the paynes that he suffered in purgatorye Now yf thys texte be true then must it folow that all thyne executoures dealin ge and offeringe of massepence c. helpe the not a myte And by thys texte it is not possible that there shulde be a purgatorye Uppon thys texte wolde I fayne dyspute a poynte of sophystrye whych I wolde gladlye haue dyssolued of them that thinke them selues lerned in phylosophye My sophisme is y â— two contradictoryes maye stonde to gether and be both true whych I am sure no sophystre dare graunte for it hath in tymes past ben condemp ned in oxforde foranâ—…eresie The coÌ„tradictories are these Euerye man shall receaue accordinge to the workes of hys bodye And some maÌ„ shall not receaue accordinge to the workes of his bo dye that these two coÌ„tradictoryes be both true I wyll proue The fyrst proposycyon is paules 2. Cor. 5. whych no man will denye to be true And the seconde maye caselye be proued true whych is that some man shall not receaue accordinge to the workes of his bodye For be yâ—… in case y â— there departe a man out of thys worl de which is not clene purged by faith aÌ„d y â— wor de of god neyther hath hys rebellyous meÌ„bres subdued thorow deeth as they imagyne but y â— the spottes and remnauntes of sinne remayne in hym for the whych he is worthye to lye in y â— paynes of purgatorie for the space of sixe yeare Thys grauÌ„ted whych I am sure they wyll not denye then also put I the case that thys man lyinge in purgatorye by the space of a moneth haue a freÌ„de whych offereth for hym a peny vnto S. dominikes boxe whych hath such power that assone as the tinginge is harde in the boxe so sone the soule is fre in heauen or that a frende of hys bye a pardon for him which maye absolue him a pena a culpa for all cometh to one effecte Thys maÌ„ deliuered on that maner doth not receaue accordinge to the workes of his bo dye for by the workes of his bodie he shulde yet lye in purgatorie more then v. yere And that doth he not but is by and by delyuered froÌ„ purgatorye Ergo I maye conclude that some man receaueth not accordynge to the workes of hys bodye and so are two contradictoryes true or els there can be no such deliuerauÌ„ce out of purgatorye whych destroyeth all pardons massepence and suffragyes for the deed This wolde I haue soluted How be it I wyll not adnumbre it for an argumeÌ„t because the vnlerned peo ple vnto whoÌ„ I wryte thys boke can not well perceaue it But thys sophisme haue I wryten to stoppe the chatteringe mouthes of the sophi sters and to cast them a bone to gnawe vppon Paule sayeth you which were in tymes pa ste straungers aÌ„d enemyes because youre myn des were sette in euell workes hath he now reconcyled in the bodye of hys flesh thorow deeth to make you holye aÌ„d such as no man can complayne on aÌ„dwyth out faute in his awne sight yf ye continue grounded and stablyshed in the fayeth and be not moued awaye from the hope of the gospell Collo 1. Here paule affermeth that you are reconcyled thorow hys deeth so that ye are made holye and wyth oute faute in hys syghâ—… I haue expounded what yt is to be wyth out fautâ—… in hys syght in my sixte
thys fayth resteth in peace and wayteth for the last daye when god shall geue vnto hys faythfull that is to hys electe for onlye are the electe fay thfull and the faythfull electe the croune of his glorye whych he hath prepared for them that lo ue hym Thys croune doth paule saye that he shall receaue yt in that daye 2. Timo. 4. that is in the daye of iudgement And in the meane cea son god hath so prouyded for vs that they shal wayte vntysl the numbre of theyr brothreÌ„ why ch daylie suffre and shall suffre for christ be hoe lye fulfilled and so shall they not be made perfeyte with out vs. Nebre xi If my lorde wyll vnderstonde by Abrahams bosome heauen I will not be contencyous let the chrysten iudge whych sentence semeth most true But thys is once a clere case that of thys he can proue no purgatorye For the vnfaythfull are all reâ—… dye dampned and the fayethfull rest in peace let him call that what he will whether to rest in heaven or to rest in theyr sayeth vntyll the last daye For I am sure there ys no man so mad as to saye that to rest in peace shulde sygnyfle to lye in the paynes of purgatorye â—…urthermore thys texte shall rather make sore agenst hym then any thynge with â—…ym For Lazarus whyles he was lyvinge was not wythout synne nor no man els 1. Ioh annes 1. so that no wan as longe as he hath breath in hys bodye can saye that he ys wyth out synne for then shulde he make Sa ynt Johan a lyar And yet was not Lazarus caryed in to purgatorye to be purged of hys synnes whych were remaynynge in his bodye the houre of his deeth wherfore I maye conclude that there is no such purgatorye For god is as iust vnto him as vnto vs and therfore wolde he purge him as well as vs and agayne he is as mercifull vnto vs as vnto him and will as well forgeus vs as him with out broylinge on the coles in purgatorye for his iustice and mercye are ever one and not alterable But oure perfeyte purgacion is the pure bloude of Christ which wassheth awaye the sinne of the worlde And albe it we ever haue the remnauntes and dregges of sinne and rebellion of oure membres as longe as we haue liffe yet are they hoellye finished in deeth for of such efficacâ—… te is christes deeth that it hath tourned y â— deeth of his faithfull which was layed vppon vs as the payne of sinne in to a medicyne agenst sinne whicâ—… fullye cureth it and maketh an ende of it as it was well figured in golâ—…s that was slayne with his awne swerde 〈◊〉 where as my lorde bringeth for hispur posse Mat. xii that men shall geue accouÌ„p tos of everye idle worde I haue soluted that be fore agenst master More that I thinke he shall saye him silfe that he is answered For if men shall geue a rekeninge for them on the daye of dome as the texte sayeth that shulde rather argue that there were no purgatorye wherin tho se sinnes shulde be purged for if they had bene purged before of them then shulde they not geue an accoumptes for theÌ„ And if it proved any thinge at all it shulde proue that there were a purgatorye after domesdaye which no maÌ„ waâ—… ever so folish as to graunte But the true vnderstondinge of this texte is this There are two kindes of men one fayth full the other vnfaithfull The faithfull thorow their faith in christes bloude are all readye fullye purged in their harte and their rebellious mâ—…res thorow deeth are hoellye subdued The se men shall geue no rekeninge neyther of idle worde nor evell dede For all their sinnes are co vered of Christ and his bloude shall geue the hoell accoumptes for them The vnfaithfull vnto their vtter confusion shall haue the boke of their conscience opened aÌ„d there shall be preseu ted before them al their evell dendes wordes aÌ„d thoughtes And these are they that christ speaketh off which shal geue this greate accoumptâ—… Note also that in the texte they are called men which worde in scripture is ever for the most parte takeÌ„ in y â— worst sense and signifyeth wyked men fleshlye men and men that folowe theyr awne lu stes aÌ„d appetites ☜ â—…hen confirmeth he purgatorye out of thâ—… 〈◊〉 Psalme which sayeth we haue gonâ—… thorow fire ad water and thou hast brought 〈◊〉 in to colenesse I am sure you haue not forgoteâ—… that Master More allegeth the prophete zachâ—… rye in the. ix and affirmeth that there is no waâ—… ter in purgatorye It were harde to make theâ—… two agre for when men grounde them on a lyâ—… then for the most parte theyr tales and probaâ—… ons are contrarye and will not well â—…onde 〈◊〉 gither Neverthelesse in one poynte they agâ—… full well that is both of them saye vntrulye 〈◊〉 neither nother texte serveth anie whitte for pâ—… â—…atorye And as concerninge the place of zacharye it is suffecieÌ„tlye declared whath it meaneth And now will I also declare you the vnderâ—… dinge of this texte and first that it can not serve for purgatorye I vesech you that haue the psalter once to reaâ—… the psalme and I thinke you shal wondre at their dotinge dreames and ignoraunce which allege this texte for purgatorye The textâ—… of the psalme is this thou hast brought vs in to a strayght and laded oure backes with trouble or 〈◊〉 Thou hast sette men vppon oure heedes we hauâ—… gone thorow fyre and water and thou hast ledde vs out agay ne in to a place of refreshinge The textes befo re and after in the same psalme will not suffâ—… that this place shulde be vnderstonde of purga torye For the texte immediatlye before sayeth thou hast sette men vppon oure heedes But y â— thefest defendars of purgatorye and even Ma stre More him silfe saye that they are not men but devels which torment the soules in purgatorye notwithstandinge my lorde of Rochestre good man affirmeth that they are aungels which tourment the soules there but never man dooted so farâ—…re as to saye that men tourment the soules in purgatorye wherfore I maye conclude that his texte is not ment of purgatorye but that the prophete ment that men ranne over the children off Israhell and subdued them and wrapped them in extreme troubles which in the scripture are signified by fire water Besydes y t y â— textes folowinge wil not admitte y t this shulde be vnderâ—…de of purgatorye for it foloweth immediatlye I wil eÌ„tre in to thy housse with burntofferinges I shal of fre uÌ„toy â— fatte sacrifices with y â— reke of wethers I shall burne to the oxen and gotes Now is there no man so madde as to thinke that y â— soules of purgatorye shulde offre vnto god any such sacrifices So that the texte is playnlye vn