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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A26776 An answer to (vindicate the cause of the nick-named Quakers of such scandalls and untruths as is falsly cast upon them in a lying pamphlet, otherwise called) A discourse concerning the Quakers set out by T.L., or, as I understand the signification of the letters, Tho.? Ledger / by Geo. Baiteman. Baiteman, George. 1653 (1653) Wing B1094; ESTC R4254 26,089 36

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ditches It would be too tedious and draw out too long a Volume to answer that Author in every perticular of his blind Discourse therefore I will passe by many things the which if time would have permitted I would have answered in order but what I have said already though in briefe will satisfie the wise and for the foolish there is too much said already for beate him in a morter and his folly will not depart from him But before I conclude I cannot chuse but take notice of somewhat more he sayes concerning these People called Quakers where he telling of comming to these People in the power and evidence of Gods Word and tels them of admiring Christ holy walking with God subjection to Ordinances Baptisme Kirkefellowship c. and they will tell you or as he saith that uncleane spirit in them will cry out and witnesse against you that you be but yet in the spirit of the world and under the power of carnall reason c. It s true they will do so to some people and wise men cannot but admire to see such a spirit of discerning in many of these people for an hypocrite can hardly beguile them though he may come with never so faire pretences to try them and let an hyhocrite arme himselfe as strongly with the Scripture and his worship of God in Ordinances as possibly he can and that light or eternall word in them will finde them out and discover these to the very bottome And I know for a truth that no hypocrite is able to stand before them and I beleeve an hypocrite that once hath had discourse with them dare not appeare before them the second time and indeed they may the easilier discerne an hypocrite when they themselves are delivered from that great evill the which no doubt but many of them had in them while they were in their pretended close walking with God and in their admirings of a Christ without them and hide-bound under a faire seeming Forme and the truth is while men live in such a condition they are not able to see how the Harlot is decked in them And this Author seemeth to take it for a strange and delusive saying That the people should say that they pray alwayes and that they have the Baptisme of Fire and that they eate the Flesh and Blood of Christ continually c. Indeed I doe not marvaile at the Author for thinking so for I beleeve he little knoweth or is acquainted with the mystery of these things for I doubt he is too busie about these things without him so that he is but little acquainted with the mystery of these things within him But at one thing I marvaile in the Author that he worshipping and idolizing the Scripture so much and yet should be unacquainted with what is written in it or otherwise why is it that the Scripture that he maketh no lesse then God should not reueale the truth of these sayings to him for if he doe but remember the Scripture it commands us to Pray alwayes but no command in it for set times and set Formes of Prayer And for the Baptisme with Fire it was the Promise of Christ and was fore-told by John Baptist Mat. 3. 11. And for eating and drinking the Body and Blood of Christ continually that soule that doth not so is in the captivity of death and hath no life in it and there is no abiding or living in the word of God or Christ but by eating his Flesh and drinking his Blood after that manner for he that eateth his Flesh and drinketh his Blood in this manner abideth in Christ and Christ in him John 6. 56. It is not the outward act of Baptisme or the Bread and Wine eating and drinking that makes a Christian or bringeth the soule to live in Christ and Christ in it no no these are typpicall things under this dispensation in which we live and they hold it out in the mystery the dying with Christ and the living with Christ For as in the time of the Law there was severall Ceremonies which poynted at the appearing of Christ in the Flesh so when he was in the Flesh he left types of another nature and these pointed at Christs appearing in spirit and as the types under the Law ended when Christ appeared in the Flesh so the types under the Gospel end when Christ appeareth in the spirit But none will beleeve the great Mystery herein but such as have found the same truely fulfilled in them and yet those who have attained this Mystery and speaketh thereof to the world or to the out side religious shall be accounted no lesse then Blasphemers because this crosseth their humane wisedome by which they understand God and his way and many of those people is able to make good the truth of this Mystery in them and witnesse the same by Scripture to yea and some of them will witnesse the same by signes and wonders to if they be put to it And yet this Author doth falsly accuse these people saying That they can give no Scripture account for what they hold out and doth falsly say That they deny Scripture when no people in the world doth answer the Scripture in its requiring more then they Other false accusations I omit because time will not give way to answer them for as he saith The mary absurd ridiculous practises of these Fantastickes as he calls them would be too much to relate so I say to answer all his false accusations would be too tedious But as he goes on in his discourse he lighteth on a great hole in their Coate as he thinketh viz. That they will not put off their Hats to any no not to a Magistrate and where doth this Author finde in Scripture any command for so doing but if he minde Scripture well he shall finde something to the contrary and that was a command of our Saviours who bad his Disciples That they should salute no man by the way Luke 10. 4. and for a Magistrate or other men in Authority what are they more then other men for if they would but well consider the originall root of Authority they shall finde that they have no just cause to look for more respect then other men for if sin had not bin brought out in the world one man had not ruled over another And the Scripture saith the Devill brought sinne into the world and sinne brought out Lawes and Lawes brought out Authority but as for Magistrates and men in Authority that are good men these looke but for little honour of men though there be an honour that is due to such but that honour consisteth not in putting off Hats to them for if it had the Scripture would have commanded such honour in some place of it Likewise that Author findeth other great defects amongst these people because they will not call men Rabbies and Sirs and because they speake and write men Thou and Thee I would know of the