vnder the name and title of them euen as Saul worshiped him vnder the name of Samuel by the meanes of his old witche Is not that a great blasphemy and sacriledge to offer consecrate vnto the diuell the bodies of men whom Iesus Christ hath dedicated and consecrated to God thorow his bloud for to bee the Temple of the holy Ghost not for to be Idols that men shoulde worship them in stede of God we may very well say that these bodyes of which Sathan is serued vnder the tytle of the relyckes of saints after the manner as he was ierued before of the Images and Idolls of the panims haue not bene well coniured by the charmes witchings crosse candells encense and holy water for to driue the Diuell from them or els the all those things were nothing worth sith that Sathan hath had such power vpon them that hée hath letted them to retourne vnto the place which God hath assigned them to wyt into the earthe out of which they came and that he hath done that that hée pretended to do about the body of Moses the which he desired to set vp for an Idoll among the people of Israel knowing that God hath forbidden Images and Idolls And there is no doubt but that he had brought it to passe if God by the ministring of his Angells had not letted him and shewed his vertue and power not thorow materiall crosses holy water candells and torches encense and lyghts and other like supersticions the which Moses had not at his buryall nor all the Patriarches Pruphetes and Apostles nor yet of Prayers Suffrages nor Sacrifices after their death and yet they were neuerthelesse delyuered from the power of the serpent Hillarius You forgette the principall you speake not of the habite of Saint Fraunces which hath yet more vertue then all that which you haue declared and spoken off if we will beléeue and giue any credite vnto the Cordeliers and Nonnes For it doth not onely driue away the diuells which are about the bodye but also it quencheth the fire of Purgatory and mitigateth the paynes especially if that he which hath clad himselfe with it doe dye vpon Saint Fraunces daye But which is more it delyuereth from eternall death as the Cordeliers doe witnesse of the king of Castilia which was delyuered bicause that being ready to dye he did put on him that holy garment dyed in the same and aswell of other Kings Quéenes of whom mention is made of them in the booke of the conformities Whrfore I esteeme the lice the most happiest creatures of all others according to the Theologie of the Cordeliers For there dyeth a great number of them within that holy habite Wherefore Fryer Lewes did no wrong in callyng them the pearles of the poore But I doe much meruayle of one thing that the Lyce are more bolder then the Diuells sith that the Diuells doe so much feare that holy habite that they dare not approche and come nighe and the Lyce lodge there at their ease I should well beléeue that if the Diuells were as fearefull as the young children that they shoulde be greatly afrayde of that habite and maske at the beginning when they did see men so wildely disguysed And I thinke that if Ortis the kings Moore had bene the firste that had dyed in that habite that they woulde haue had great feare For he was as blacke as a Diuell disguysed as a Cordelier wherefore they would haue founde the same very straunge Thomas But I am wonderfully abashed wherfore they put rather a crosse in the handes of those which dye in the habite of Saynt Fraunces then in the hands of poore simple people who are buried onely in a shéete Hillarius I can giue vnto thée none other reason but that I thinke that the same is done by the permission and prouidence of God which will that men should doe vnto them honour as they customally doe vnto the euill and wicked men when they are executed thorow Iustice vnto which in many places and countryes they make him to beare a crosse in his handes chiefely the Sorcerers and Heretickes Wherefore men doe not very great wrong vnto those Idolaters which doe put theyr affiaunce and trust in an olde rotten garment to compare them vnto the Sorcerers and Heretickes rather then to the poore simple people sith that they haue declared themselues more Infidells then the other and that they haue lesse fayth and hope in the merite of the death and passion of Iesus Christ Eusebius Wherefore doest thou speake so outragiously sith that the most honeste and wise men and which are most estéemed in this worlde haue desired to dye in that habite Theophilus So much the more oughte wée to feare moste seeing that the efficacie and strengthe of Sathan hath béene so greate that the most wysest men of the worlde and those which are accompted for good and vertuous men haue bene deceyued thorowe such opinions and are fallen into such blasphemyes the which yet those wicked Moonkes are not ashamed to vpholde and maynteyne For what blasphemy was euer greater vppon the earthe as to to attribute vnto suche a Maske the healthe and saluation of soules and to make an Idoll and newe Christ not onely of Saynt Fraunces but also of his hoode and habite Whereas in déede I doe not thinke that he was euer disguysed in such sorte and that he hath bene the author of those blasphemyes of which vnder his name and tytle all the worlde hath bene filled and poysoned thorowe the meanes and practise of those false bretheren the Cordeliers which haue bene the Trompette and Bagpipe of sathan throughout all Christendome together with theire other companions But to what ende doth that habite profite the deade It maye serue for those that bee lyuing for a gowne hose bonet and hoode for to couer and keepe them from the colde Hillarius You doe yet forgette the chiefest For it serueth also vnto the Moonkes for to shewe that they are effeminated and worthye to bee taken for woemen although that by their workes they sufficiently declare themselues not to be woemen and that men doe not call them father without good cause Yet neuerthelesse mée thinkes they are repugnaunt to the Scripture which forbiddeth men to putte on woemens rayment nor the woeman that which pertayneth vnto the man And yet neuerthelesse hée which shall consider and marke well their apparayle they are lyker woemens apparayle then mens aswell those which they commonly weare as the vestements which they doe vse in their Masses Theophilus I graunt vnto thée all that but to what ende serueth it to the dead First of all what profite can it bring vnto the soule For it cannot touch it cloathe nor couer it nor yet descende into Purgatory with it The body also goeth neither into purgatory nor into hell but is buryed in the earth vntill the day of
woemen which followed Iesus Christe from Galile vntill he was buryed willinge to anointe him in his sepulchre dyd not thinke of his resurrection but did thinke to haue founde him dead as the Angells rebuked them saying why seeke yee the liuinge amonge the dead There is no doubte but that there was yet in them humayne affection towardes the bodye of Iesus Christe as wee haue towardes the dead But to the ende that wee maye haue no more neede to dispute muche of it wylt thou bee contented if I doe alledge vnto thee Augustine agaynste Augustine To whome haddest thou rather staye eyther vppon Saincte Augustine followinge the opinion of men wythout the Scripture and speakinge doubtfullye as vncerteyne or vnto hym and other auncient Doctours wyth the holy Scripture Eusebius I doe not thincke that Sainct Augustine would speake against himselfe nor the he hath bene contrary vnto the holy Scripture nor to the auncient Doctors Theophilus Thou canst not shewe vnto mee that hee hath affirmed the Purgatorye certeynlye But I will declare vnto thee places by the whiche hee hath altogether abolyshed it Marke howe hee hath put none other Purgatorye then the bloude of Iesus Christe hee sayth speakinge of Porphyras a Platonist that hee hath not knowen Iesus Christe to bee the begynninge thorowe whose incarnation wee are purged For hee shoulde haue then acknowledged a Purgatorye And in an other place hee sayth Wee haue then the bictorye in his name which hath taken mannes fleshe and hath liued without sinne to the ende that by hym beeiâ—ge the Priest and the sacrifice we are made the remyssion of sinnes That is to saye thorowe the medyatour of God and men the man Iesus Christe who in hys owne person hath purged our sinnes and restored be agayne vnto god For men are not seperated from God but thorowe sinne for which it lyeth not in vs thorowe our owne power and strength to purge them in this lyfe but therow the mercy God thorow his clemeney not thorowe our power For that vertue whiche is called ours whatsoeuer it bee it is graunted vnto vs thorowe his goodnesse Doth hee not cleerelye shewe that the purgation of sinnes is done in this lyfe and yet not thorowe our owne righteousnesse nor vertue Holve can it then bee done in the other lyfe thorowe the vertue and merytes of an other Furthermore hee manyfestly sayth the soules of the good men after they are seperated from the body are at rest and wee muste not doubt of it but those of the wicked are punished vntyll such time as the bodyes of those doe ryse againe to eternall lyfe and of these heere to eternall death whiche is called the seconde death But is it possible to speake more cleerelye and purely of Iesus Christe and of the Purgatorye that wee haue in him then when hee sayth Thorowe his death that is to saye by one onelye and true sacrifice which hath bene offered for vs hee hath purged abolythed and put out all that that had anye saultes in vs Wherefore the hygher power and those of authoritie doe bolde and keepe vs for to bee punyshed And by his resurrection hath called vnto a newe lyfe wee which were predestyned hee hath iustified those that hee called and glorified the iustified Beholde woords very cleere And speaking of the opinion of Plato he sayth Those which are of that opinion doe thincke that after that one is deud there is no other paines then of Purgatorye for to purge sinnes Alyttlo after hee sayth Wee confesse that in this mortall life there is a certeyne Purgatory paine It seemeth that hee somewhat agreeth that the tribulations and aduersities that man suffereth in this world do serue him for a purgation of his sinnes the which yet neuerthelesse they dare not to attribute but to Iesus Christ Although that we doe commonly say of him which hath had much euil griefe in this world the he hath had heere his Purgatory For that tasteth muche of the opinion of Plato But Sainct Augustin doth not make ther meÌ„tioÌ„ of any paineâ— of purgatoy after this life but he sayth playnely that the soules of the faythfull do rest after the deathe of the bodye But what wilt thou more cléerer then when hée sayeth Some doe beleeue that those also whiche haue not abandoned the name of Christ and which haue bene baptized in hys Church and haue not belie cutte off from the same thorow anye schisme or heresie that in whatsoeuer sinnes they haue lyued in the which they shall not deface and put away thorowe penaunce nor redeemed thorow doing of almes beedes but shall perseuer and continue in them continually vntill the last daye of their lyfe shall be saued thorow the fire Although that according to the greatnesse of theire sinnes and misdéedes that fire shall bée diuturnall but not eternall But mée thincketh that those that doe beléeue this and yet neuerthelesse are catholikes are deceyued thorowe mans beneuolence For the holy Scripture if one doe looke and search in it aunswereth an other thing Thou seest héere Eusebius that be speaketh of the fire of Purgatory whatsoeuer thinge he hath spoken at other time And sayth moreouer that there is but two wayes to wit one of dampnation and an other of saluation But marke well his owne words The fayth of the catholikes thorowe the diuine authoritie doth first beleeue that there is a kingdome of heauen Secondly that there is a hell in the which euerye apostate and straunger to the fayth of Christe is punyshed Wee are altogether ignoraunt of the thirde But wée doe not finde in the holy Scriptures that there is any It seemeth to mee that hée speaketh very cléerely and that those authorities ought to suffice thee against all that that thou canst alledge of the auncient Doctors in the fauour of Purgatory Yet neuerthelesse the better to vanquish and pull thée down I wil yet shew foorth vnto thee some sentences of the most auncient Doctoures Marke what Tertulian sayth It seemeth vnto euery one that is wise which haue heard somtime spoken of the fields Ehseus that it hath some locall determination which hath bene called Abrahams bosome for to receyue the soules of his children and that the same region or countrey is not celestiall but it is yet neuer the lesse more higher then hell in which the soules of the righteous doe rest vntyll such time as the consumation of the thinges restoreth the resurrection of all men thorowe perfect rewarde I doe not prayse that which Tertulian hath determyned of the place wythout witnesse of the Scripture but I thincke it a very daungerous thinge to define of suche thinges wythout wytnesse of the same and I had rather staio my selfe vpon the sentence of sainct Augustine which sayth that it shoulde bee very good that an vncerteyne thing of which not onely the Scriptures doe make no mention of it but doe speake the contrary that
infamy the which yet neuertheles redoundeth more vnto their pareÌ„ts friends then vnto them But they forget themselues or rather they think that they do yet foele shal féele that dishonour infamye and publike shame which shall continue to their infants and lynage And although that they bée sufficiently tormented with their euill yet neuerthelesse they féele a great ease and refreshing if they vnderstande that their children haue none euill their torment is aggrauated and increased if they vnderstande the contrarie For that cause the Prophetes doe threaten not onely the wicked sort of their owne ruine and distruction but doe foreshewe vnto them that of their children and the euilles whiche shall happen vnto them as it appeareth in the prophecy of Esaie against Babylon and others like But for to stoppe all those euills and for to appaise the wrath of God kindled vpon vs as well for our sinnes as those of our fathers there is no better prayers nor offrings then to runne with true repentance amendemeÌ„t of life to implore his mercy Behold the good prayers for y deade to that ende that their sinnes be not counted wish ours Although that it be after whatsoeuer manner 〈◊〉 wilt take that place it sufficeth móe at this present to haue shewed vnto thée that thou canst not by the same proue thy purgatory although that the booke shoulde bée of the holy scripture And if thou wilt giue vnto it any credit it may better serue thée for to proue the Lymbe if there be one then the Purgatory But sith that Iesus Christ is come and that you confesse that he hath drawen the â—athers from the Lymbes the example of Iudas Machabeus can haue no more place among you sith that according to your doctrine the cause is ceased Eusebius Put case that there were no more neither Lymbe nor Purgatory can we not at the least pray for the resurrection of the deade And for the seconde comming of Iesus Christ the which we doe looke for as well as the auncyent fathers haue prayed for the first and haue desired and sighed after it Theophilus We may well pray as I haue alreadye saide and aske of God all that which apperteyneth to the perfection of his kingdome But to make prayers which are called prayers for the deade and to pray in perticuler that God woulde raise vp againe the bodyes of those which are deade and that Iesus Christ would soone come to iudgement I haue no commaundement of God nor example in all the holy scripture but rather to the contrary For when the Lorde aunswered vnto the soules of the saints which complayned of their persecutors that they shoulde â—arry vntill the number of their bretheren were fulfilled he doth sufficiently shewe by the same that he hath prefered the tyme the which cannot be plucked nor driuen backe And sith that the thing is altogether certeine and that we are alreadie all assured what néede is it then to make perticuler praiers Eusebius We are asmuch assured that all thinges which ought to come are passed by the counsell of God and that he will giue vs all that which shal be requisite to our helth and saluation that all the haires of our heade are numbred and none shall fall to the grounde without his wyll and his kingdome shall shall come and shall be exalted aboue all creatures but we may not leaue off therefore to pray continually â— to demaunde those thinges of God. Theophilus It is an other thing of vs which are yet in our voiage earthly peregrination â— of those which haue alreadie ended their course vnto whome we can no more add too nor dimynish For all the while that we are yet in the battaile we may empaire or amende and we haue alwayes néede to inuocate and call for the aide of God both for vs and for our bretheren which are yet in combate fight with vs And which is more God commaundeth vs so to do not that he knoweth not better then we what we do lacke before we do aske and that hee is not willing to giue it vs but hee doth it for to hold and kéepe vs in his feare to learne vs to sanctifie his name to exercise our faith towards him and our loue towardes our neighboure whilest that wée may serue him in this mortall peregrination But after that the voctorie is gotten or lost and that one is once come and arriued to the hauen and port to which he must go the cause and the occasion is no more such Eusebius Thou hast saide before that the soules of the blessed and the verye Angels were not yet in their full glorie Also wee cannot denye but that the bodies of the faithfull that are deade are yet kept in death sith that they are in corruption from the which they shal not be deliuered vntill their resurrection that death shal be altogether abolished What euill is it then to pray for the deade that their bodie may be deliuered from corruption and that they may haue their perfect consummation in bodie and soule Theophilus I haue alreadie satisfied thée in that if thou vnderstandest what difference there is betwéene the lyuing and the deade And although we had none other thing but that the scripture maketh no expresse commasidement that ought to suffice thée For if it were a question to worke subtilly and sophistically in the worde of god I shoulde well haue asmuch reason to put forth that wée must make prayers in perticuler for the virgin Marye for all the Prophets Apostles Saints and Saintes of Paradise Yea for the Angells and for Iesus Christ himselfe Hillaâ—ius It shoulde be requisite then by that accompt to make out of hand a newe Letany In stéede where the Prâ—estes do sing saint Michael pray for vs saint Mary mother of God pray for vs saint Peter pray for vs and so consequently of others we must say O Lorde we pray and beseech thée for saint Michael saint Gabriel saint Mary saint Peter saint Paul â—nd â—or all the saints and saintes of Paradise that thou do put them in full â—oye and perfect â—elicitie and that thâ—u â—aise vp their bodyes to eternall glorie Theophilus If our dâ—e examine well the greatest part of the prayers which the priestes make for the deade euen as they are written in their Messell and Breuiaries one shal be constrained â—o confesse that such prayers cannot be made in the name of others then of those whome they do inuocate and call vpon in their Letanyes and that they be of like condition Hillarius I haue heard the Cordeliers mocke at Frier Christofer which was one of their order and couent bâ—cause that he did sing the Masse of Requiem for the Saints and Saintes of Paradise But if he had knowen howe to defende his cause it had not béene without reasâ—n For he might haue verie wel alledged for his warrant the Memento of the
that I haue forgotten the estate in which I haue bene and that I am vnthanckefull towardes Gods liberalitie and goodnesse who immediatlye from my youth béeing yet at the schooles hath drawen me from that labarinth of errour before that I was to much plunged in that Babilonical Antechrist and receyued the marke of the beast Neuerthelesse notwithstanding that it hath pleased God that that carecter and marke was not printed in my forehead to the which yet neuerthelesse A. prepared my selfe thincking that it was the right waye of saluation if the Lorde had not had pittie and compassion on mée who called mee vnto a better vocation yet I cannot therefore denie but that I haue bene sufficiently plunged and very déepe in that whore of Babilon aswell as others Although I haue not bene none of the gouernours and chiefest Eurgesses and Citizens of the same yet I haue bene of the meaner sort prepared for to bring foorth the fruites of confusion as the others dyd and so much the more that by Nature I was more giuen vnto religion the which yet neuerthelesse I knewe not following in steede thereoff all superstition Wherefore sithens that the Lord hath taken mée out I can not yet forget those that are detayned and kept therein And in remembring and considering the trayne of the newe Babilon it maketh me so remember a lawe and custome that the auncient Babilonians had the which is not altogether to be despised nor vnworthy to be remembred Before that Phisicke was yet brought into any perfect Aite and that there was not cunninge Phisitions for to practise it they dyd set downe a lawe by which they ordeyned that those which did begin to be sicke and diseased ought to go vnto those which sometime haue bene sicke with the same disease for to haue their aduice counsaile and for to learne by them the remedy which they vsed if they had proued any good and which were wel to be found And to the ende that that law should be the better kept they vsed to bring those that were sicke and diseased vnto the stréets and open places and those which sometime had bene sicke were bounde by the lawe to visite them and to teach vnto euery one of them the remedy by the which they were healed If then the Babilonians were so carefull of the sicke and diseased let vs thincke what reproche we shall haue of God if after that hée hath made vs féele his grace and hath giuen vnto vs the remedy not onely against all the diseases both of body and soule but also against the corporall and spirituall deathe we haue no pittie and compassion on our bretheren which are yet in the bedde of deathe and if we doe not showe vnto them the remedye that we haue learned of GOD and that we doe not bringe them vnto the highe and souereigne Phisition IESUS CHRIST His law and commaundement ought more to vrge vs then that of the Babilonians If he willed and commaunded that he that shall finde the Ore or the Asse of his neighbour going astray yea of his enemy to bring them to him againe or if he be fallen into a dyke or sinke vnder his burthen to helpe him out and vp againe do we thinke that he hath not yet more care of man then of a beast of the soule more then of the body Doth he not giue vs sufficieÌ„tly to vnderstand by that commaundement in what recommendacion we ought to haue our neighbours and what care we ought to take of their soules and health sith that he bindeth vs by his commaundement to take the care and charge of his Asse I then considering the great darkenesse abuses and errours which haue occupyed and filled all the Christianitie séeing so many scrupulous doubtfull and troubled consciences and so many diseases of which euery stréete place and all the worlde is full would not despise them without teaching them some remedy for to comfort them at the least a lyttle if I cannot doe much chiefly for that I haue bene required of many good men which doe feare God. It is very true that one shall finde men inough which will promise remedyes for such diseases but he shall not finde many which haue well proued and tryed that which they teach vnto others For many men sometime wyll meddle or take vppon them to heale others which haue more néede of a medicine then those vnto whome they would giue it and there are more Phisicions then diseases And although I will not glorye nor boaste my selfe to be very able and cunning in that matter yet neuerthelesse I will not hyde that lyttle talent which the LORDE hath giuen vnto mée I am not ignorant but that the Lord hath raysed vp in these our dayes learned men which haue already very well declared and opened those obscure and darke places of which so many poore consciences are troubled after whome I am not worthy to carry their bookes but doe estéeme it a greate benefite of GOD to haue bene their disciple and scholler and by their meanes to haue vnderstanded GODS truth although that many bookes haue bene alreadye made and set foorth in our countrey by diuers learned for to discouer the abuses and for to put agayne the woorde of GOD in his honour according as our Sauiour IESUS CHRIST instituted it Neuerthelesse I haue yet thought that my lyttle labour shall not be altogether vayne and vnprofitable towards a great many of my bretheren and countrimen especially towards some for many causes First bicause that the most parte of those which haue written of diuinitie haue heterto written in the Latine tougue the whiche is not to be vnderstood of all men and especially of the poore ignoraunt people which haue more néede of playne doctrâ—e and consolation Wherefore it is good that such matters which doe touch and conserne our health and saluation be manifested and sette foorth in all languages to the ende that those which do not vnderstande the one may be instructed by the other For it is all one what language one speaketh vnto vs so that we vnderstand him and that we may be well instructed in the will of God and in all things necessary vnto our saluation For God regardeth not the languages but onely the thing to which all languages ought to serue Then euen as those who doe wryte in a language which is most common to euery Nation and by which they may instruct and teach not onely those of their countrey but also of straunge countreys are worthy of great prayse So I doe iudge them worthy to be blamed and not worthy to be accounted for christian men to occupy themselues so much to teach the most wisest and best learned and those which are so farre seperated from vs and that the poore ignoraunt and those of the house should hée despised and should féele nor receiue any fruite One might rightly rebuke and checke vs Phisition heale thy selfe And that we doe not
true manner the which he would teach vs by his worde and that hée would represent and frequent in the holy supper is spirituall and not carnall as he himselfe witnesseth sayinge It is the spirite that quickeneth the fleshe profiteth nothing The woordes that I haue sayde are spirite and lyfe Theophilus That is not ment that the fleshe of Iesus Christ doth not profite any thing the faithful sith y he himselfe calleth it the bread which came downe from heauen without which we cannot haue life nourishment nor saluation But the carnall sence and vnderstandinge of hys woordes and suche intelligence as the Capeâ—naites and hearers that were offended had is the fleshe eaten in such sorte as they vnderstande it For when wée shall haue the very fleshe of Iesus Christ in our mouth and that wée doe crashe it wyth our téeth and disgest it in our stomack it profiteth vs no more then to Iudas to haue kissed him and to the hangmen to haue touched him yea to bée sprinckled in hys bloude and to haue had his garmentes For Iesus Christ doth profite nothinge béeing knowen after the flesh except he be knowen through fayth by the whiche hée filleth and satisfieth vs also wyth his fleshe and bloude Therefore it is not néedefull that he discende from heauen nor y he remoue froÌ„ place to place for to feede vs in that manner wyth his fleshe and bloude and for to bée present wyth vs and in the middest of vs For he dwelleth in our heartes by fayth and lyueth in vs and quickeneth vs by his holy spirit Wherfore he calleth not the faythfull hys sepulchre but the temple of the liuing god For hée is not deade in the heartes of the faythfull but lyueth there and the faythfull by hym Euen as then the sunne is present wyth vs althoughe it descende not from heauen into the earth and maketh vs to féele hys vertue and power it illuminateth vs and through his heate and brightnesse nourisheth and quickeneth both man and beastes better then if it were héere in earth with vs euen so Iesus Christ that greate sonne of righteousnesse through his diuine power and vertue of his holye spirite doth gyue vnto our soules and bodyes hys flesh and his bloude and doth nourishe and fill vs and maketh vs to feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion and of his body and bloude that hée hath gyuen for vs better then if we did eate his flesh with our téeth and there dyd deuoure and swallow it in wyth his bloud in our stomacke insomuch that there is not a body which is so well nourished and fedde wyth bread and wine that hée eatcth and drincketh as the faythfull who with a true and liuely faith commeth vnto him and receyueth his woorde and communicateth the Sacramentes that he hath ordayned is filled and satisfied wyth his flesh and his bloude For hée hath sayde he that commeth to mée shall not hunger and he that beléeueth on mée shall neuer thurst If he that commeth and beléeueth in him shall no more hunger nor thurst it followeth then that in beléeuing and communicating his Sacramentes hée hath eaten and dronken and is satisfied Hillarius That sufficeth which you haue nowe spoken off friend Theophilus for to proue my meaning For we haue not at this present neyther better time nor fitter occasion for to pursue more fully that matter But I wil not graunt vnto thée Eusebius that the Priestes doe eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christe after that sorte For sith that they séeke his carnall presence they depriue themselues of his spiritual presence according to the witnesse of the Apostle which sayth Wée haue an Aulter whereoff they maye not eate whiche serue in the Tabernacle If those who doe serue in the Tabernacle of Moses and put yet all their affiaunce in the leuitical Ceremonies and sacrifices are shutte out and depriued from the true sacrifice of Iesus Christe what communion can those haue wyth hym who haue altogether ouerthrowen his Sacramentes and Ordinaunces and haue founde out and inuented newe sacrifices more intollerable then euer the Iewes vsed There is an other manner to eate the fleshe and drincke the bloude of Iesus Christ the which I cannot graunt vnto them y is the carnall eating as the Caparnaites dyd vnderstande it euen as one eateth the fleshe of the butchery Iesus Christe whiche is at the ryght hande of God cannot bée eaten after that sorte For hée is the breade of Angels and of the true chyldren of God and of his shéepe and not of Dogges Wolues Hogges Lyons and wilde beastes But I wyll graunte vnto them the thirde manner to eate Iesus Christ and doe confesse wyth thée that they doe eate it truelye reallye and essentiallye not onely in flesh and bones but which is more least you shoulde accompte mée for an hereticke besides the flesh and bones they doe eate the skinne and breake the bones for to sucke out the marrowe that is therein bycause they haue founde suche good taste in the meate Thomas If they doe so they doe worse then the Iewes For they brake not a bone of Iesus Christ Theophilus That was bicause that it was necessarye that in him should be fulfilled which was figured represented by the pascall Lambe of which they must leaue his bones whole For we cannot haue Iesus Christ but that we must haue him whole his vertue power cannot be broken by death it selfe Thomas I haue not yet very wel vnderstood you Hillarius I will declare it vnto thée by a cléere demonstration by euident arguments Diddest thou not first confesse vnto me that all the true faithfull are the true members of Iesus Christ Thomas I confesse it Hillarius If they be members of Iesus Christ they are then his body of which he is y head as the Apostle doth witnesse in many places Thomas I doe agrée vnto you in that Hillarius Forasmuch then as the faithfull are the body of Iesus Christ you will also graunt mée that those which eate the faithfull and poore widowes orphants doe eate Iesus Christ And if you will denie it I will proue it by that that Iesus Christ sayd vnto Saul saying Saul Saul why persecutest thou me In the same manner then as Iesus Christ doth complaine himselfe to be persecuted wheÌ„ his members are So may I say without digressinge from the Scripture that those eate Iesus Christ that do eat his members Thomas But you haue not yet proued that the Priests doe eate the members of Iesus Christ Hillarius It hath ben alredy proued by the things that were spoken before For haue I not already tolde thée how they doo eate both the quicke dead But least thou shouldest thincke that I speake without the Scripture beholde his witnesse What doe you vnderstande by that rebuke and checke that God did vnto the tyrants and enemies of his people when he complained
that they denoured Iacob and his people as a morsell of bread Thomas The places doe declare inough of themselues For he complaineth that his enemies are come into his enheritage and haue destroyed his people which is signified by Iacob of whom did procéede come the twelue tribes of Israel That is a manner of speaking common in all tongues Euen so doe we saye that a man is burned when his house is burned also wée do call the great théeues couetous persons tyrantes rauishers and vsurers the consumers and deuourers of the poore people widowes and Fatherlesse children not that they ease and deuoure mans flesh but bicause they destroy and deuoure their substaunce and many times cause them to dye for very pouertie and lacke Hillarius You haue alredy concluded y which I would haue concluded We cannot denie but that the Priests and Moonkes doe deuoure all the substance of the poore Christian people which is the true heritage of God and the true Iacob whome they haue consumed wasted and deuoured more cruelly then the Babilonians did vnto the Israelites For to make you better to vnderstande the effect sumine of our disputation I will comprehend it in a little sillogysme and playne conclusion Whosoeuer eateth the poore eateth the body of Christ The Priestes doe eate the poore wherefore it followeth infallibly that they eate the body of Iesus Christ The sillogisme is good for it is in his inode and dialecticall and logicall figure It néedeth no more for to proue the premisses and the Antecedent For you haue already graunted it vnto me by your aunsweres You doe then sée now friend Eusebius that I am not an heretick noither after God nor after the Pope For I doe confesse y true and spirituall manducation of the body of Iesus Christ the very papisticall manducation which is more truer then it is in the bookes of your Doctors I doe then thinck that you ought to content your selues with vs that the Pope ought not to pursue vs to the fire to such cruell death for that Article For I beléeue y there is none of all those whō you doe condemne for hereticks who are not ready to confesse as muche as I. And if you will compell them further me thinckes you doe them wronge For what can they confesse any more without speakinge againste the truth Nowe it resteth that I doe proue howe they doe eat the skinne and breake the bones for to haue the marrowe Wherefore I will take for my warrant and aduocate in this cause chiefly Michea amonge the Prophetes who speakinge both of them and of their like accuseth them after this manner sayinge Ye hate the good and loue the euill ye plucke off mens skinnes and fleshe from their bones ye eate the fleshe of my people and flaye off their skinne ye breake their bones ye choppe them in péeces as it were into a Cauldron and as flesh into a Pot. And as concerning the Prophetes that deceiue my people thus the Lorde saith againste them When they haue anye thinge to bite vpon then they preache that all shall bée well But if a man putte not some thinge into they re mouthes they preache of warre against him I doe neuer read those wordes of Micheah consideringe the auarice and rapacite of our false teachers and shepheards who doe feede themselues not the Lordes flocke but that mée thinckes I sée before mine eyes that greate and hidious Cerberus the dogge and porter of Hell with his thrée heades whiche hée hath for to deuoure eate and swallowe vp all that commeth vnto hym if one doe not cast a sop into his mouth euen as Aeneas and Sibyle did accordinge to Virgiles discription who hathe sette out his rage and vnsatiable madnesse speakinge after this sort There Cerberus infernall hound with throates vvide open three Doth havvle vvith barking noise at Lymbo mouth full huge to see Whose neck vvhen Sibly savve vvith startling snakes to swelling fixt A sop of bread vvith sleepy seedes and Honny sweete commixt Against his throat she threw he gaping wide his threefolde iawes All hungry caught that gub couching straite with stretched paws He bowed his boistrous backe and on the ground himselfe he spred Encombring all the caue and groueling lay with slombry head We haue a great number of such dogs who although they are mute for to preach the word of God for to crye against the abuses vices and offences for to chase and driue away the Wolues from the folde to defend the shéepe neuerthelesse are not mute but great cryers against the true seruaunts of God who cease not to barke bite deuoure except for to haue them quiet one do cast them some bone or sop in their mouth Now thincke if that infernall monster mad dog who hath but thrée heads and one belly be so hungry and insatiable what ought we to estéeme of so many Cerberus and of so many gluttons who haue so many heads bellies which are as the great goulfes of the sea It is not then without cause that y prophets comparing such shepherds to those great masties dumme dogs shamelesse idle knaues and insatiable vnto Lyons rauening Wolues who haue eaten nothing vntil Euening who do flay the skinne eat the flesh afterwards doe breake the hones and cast them into the pot for to eate and deuoure them and yet cannot bée satisfied and filled Wherefore I cannot beléeue but that Salomon by the spirite of GOD hath foreséene and spake of that generation and that hée minded to paynte it out vnto vs when he sayde There are a people whose téeth are swoordes and wyth their chaffe bones they consume deuoure the simple of the earth and the poore from amonge men The Horseléech hath two daughters the one is called fetche hether and the other bringe hether Theophilus Hée sayeth not wythout cause that shée hath two daughters For shée hath two throates and draweth the bloude from one side to the other But I am not abashed but of that that when hée nombreth the thinges that are not satisfied he hath also added those which are the most insatiable of all He sayth that there be thrée things that are neuer satisfied and the fourth sayth neuer hoe That is to saye hell a womans wombe and the earth hathe neuer water inoughe as for fire it sayth neuer hoe One may very well adde to these for the fift Hillarius It is no néede For among these foure they are alredy conteined in two for fault of one Hath not Salomon spoken of the fire who neuer saith hoe For one cannot finde so much as it consumeth There was neuer fire that molted and consumed so much goods as the fire of their Purgatory of their kitchin which is of y same nature Againe is not y hell comprised among those insatiable things May wée not well speake that
they cannot agrée together and it is impossible that the one can endure continue with the other sith that the one purgeth without money through the onely grace of God and the other is an insatiable goulfe which melteth consumeth all the golde siluer of the world neither purgeth it the sinnes but maketh all those guiltie of hell fire that séeke in it their purgation Hillarius I doe compte him to be foolish mad that had rather consume and wast all his substaunce for to buy hell then to receiue Paradise fréely which shal cost him nothing Thomas In hearinge you speake I am greatly estonied to see how men haue chaunged their nature For they do all willingly runne to the best chepe there is none but bad rather receiue good merchaundise if it coste nothinge then to buy the bad very deere or poyson for to kill in steede of bread which ought to nourish which shall be presented and offered vnto him without money Theophilus And yet neuerthelesse wée doe sée the same put in practise euery day wherein we may well know how God hath taken away the sences and vnderstanding of men who doe take such great pleasure to destroy themselues and to lose both their bodies soules and goodes For they are mad to runne after the priests for to buy death and refuse life which is presented vnto thē fréely and thanckfully by Iesus Christ Hillarius I beléeue it well behold the cause wherefore al these collyars and kitchin men who doe liue vpon that fire haue endcuoured themselues as much as lyeth in them to quench out altogether the fire of the gospel of Iesus Christ which quencheth putteth out theirs bicause that it is more vehement and more violent and consumeth it into Asshes Thomas Is it then true that it is quenched euen as you say and that there remaineth nothing whole Theophilus There remaineth yet some chamber or cabine which are not yet all burned But sithence that once the fire of Iesus Christ hath begun there to kindle it will not cease vntill such time as it hath consumed it all into Asshes for that is a fire which none can quench Hillarius I do much meruaile that they doe not all runne for water to cast vpon it Whereto serueth their holy water wherefore doe they not no we make it to shew his vertues as well as against the lightninges tempestes when they coniure them Theophilus They do cleane contrary For euery one runneth to the fire to the fagots to the brimstone to the lights to the bellowes for to make it the more to burne And they are so hot after it that there is neyther King Prince Lord Bourgis Merchaunt or Labourer whom they do not prouoke to blow their fire to cast on fagots in such sort that it is become so great that men doo sée in many places that it is like to consume those that bée aliue Thomas Can they quench it by that meanes Theophilus You are not deceiued hath the fire of men vsed to quench the fire of God No but they doe kindle it dayly more and more Hillarius I know the cause wherefore they doe it They do greatly feare least those Lutherians and heretickes should not be dampned and that they should not go into hell sith that they denie the Purgatory and that they will not enter therefore they woulde make them to féele it in this world and to purge them from their sinnes to put them in Paradise against their wils They doe well declare thereby that they differ from the Persians who will not burne the dead bodyes as the Greekes Latines do bicause they hold the fire as a God and they thinck that it séemeth that it was much vnséemely for his maiestie to defile himselfe with dead bodies and to nourish him with flesh But these héere do giue him none other meat but do sacrifice to him men as the Idolatres dyd God Moloch Pluto Saturnus and dyd nourishe them wyth mans fleshe But one maye replye vnto mée and saye that they dyd vnto him that honour to nourishe hym wyth lyue flesh Theophilus I am not so much amazed to sée them doo that as I am to sée how they make the princes lords their hangmen putting into their hands those whom they would haue to be executed Hillarius They shewe themselues to bée the successors of those who sayde vnto Pylate speaking of Iesus Christe we haue a lawe and by our lawe he ought to dye But it is not lawfull for vs to put any man to death And therefore they praye ayde of the seculer power the whiche men dare not refuse I doe thincke that many Princes Lordes doe feare least it happen vnto them as it happened vnto Nicanor the preuost of Alexander against the Bactrianians The Hircanians and Bactrianians did vsually giue vnto the dogges those that were very olde and did thincke it to be the best burying For that cause the common people nourished vp common dogs for that purpose and the riche men tame and demesticall dogges for to serue them for that purpose And therefore they called them in their language the dogges of Sepulchres or graue dogges Then when Nicanor was come vnto the Bactrianians hée endeuoured himselfe to reforme and correct that vile custome and execrable crime But he could neuer take order to reforme it but to the contrary as witnesseth sainct Hierome they did rise againste him in such sort that he had almost lost his kingdome Now if we will consider the thinges and way them well what are in these daies our Priests and Moonkes who do liue vpon carrion as the dogs of the Sepulchres doo For that cause I thincke that Rosset the Poet of Sauoy called the dogges the Chanons of mount Faucon as I haue heard him oftentimes say in his lessons Sith thē they haue vsed to eat mans flesh it is no meruaile though men do feare them that they féede them deintely as they doe in Hircania For there is not almost any great house but hath his domestical dogs besides those that are kept fed commonly in euery towne village Theophilus I doe much doubt that the same that they are afraide off will happen vnto them sith the they wil set no good order according to the power that God hath giuen vnto them I do greatly feare that in the ende those dogs wil dououre thē altogether For they haue already wel begun Hillarius Me thincks that they take the Pope for Moloch Pluto or Saturne whō men cannot appaise without sacrificing vnto them men The Pope woulde bée called our holy father but that is such a father as Saturne was who did eat his owne children if the Poets haue not lyed but yet Rea his wife hid them from him and kept them the he should not eate them But the court of Rome the papisticall Church who would be called our holy mother Church doth
afterwards shee was conuerted to your law and the most part of all hir parents and kinsfolke Wherefore the Priestes should haue lost all that Hillarius And therefore it is not without cause that they make such hast of offerings but without the same they make no hast Theophilus It should séeme to those that heare thē read vpon their bookes the they haue great pittie compassion of those captiue soules sith that they had rather delay the honor that they would do vnto the saints their office then the same of the dead the solace comforte that they would giue vnto them But the practise of their doctrine and experience declareth vnto vs the contrary For hée that will not giue them readye money in theire handes without all question those poore soules should neuer haue any helpe of them or at the least it shal be but lyttle and they shall tarry their leasure And so by that meanes the poore shal be alwayes miserable and cannot enter into Paradise for want of money if there be such auarice in Paradise as is among them Hillarius Some men saye they haue hearde their lamentations and that you doe wronge vnto them and that they are not so pittilesse as you make them For in singing for the dead they lament so piteously that men would say that they did wéepe and mourne as if they had buryed their father and mother But it is easie to bée séene that they are not so sorrowfull as they séeme they are But that those are the teares of the Crocodile who weepeth when he would eate and deuoure men Wherefore the more I beholde them so much the truer do I finde the aunswere of him of whome one asked what kinde of people doe lyue now a dayes most ioyfully and fréely vppon the earth and who haue the greatest franchises and priuiledges Thomas What aunswered he Hillarius That they were the Priests and the Phistcians For the Priestes are alwayes ioyfull and merry as you heare them sing at the burialls when all the other do wéepe and lament The Phisicians also haue great lyberties and franchises For it is lawfull for them to kill men not onely without receiuing punishment for it but which is more they haue and receiue money for their labour Thomas The hangmen are asmuch priuiledged Hillarius You say true I am abashed that Plinie hath not ioyned them together when he did speake of the priuiledge of the Phisicians But it seemeth vnto me that they ought yet to haue wages of the Priests For they doe not neglect and fore slow their businesse but doe bring goodly hydes into their tanne fatte Theophilus Yea the barbarous and ignorant Emperiques and Arabians which ought to agrée with them and the Theologians Sophistes But they cannot gette much with the cunning Phisicians and which are of a good conscience Hillarias And therefore me thinkes that those cannot well agrée with the Priestes For the Priestes desire none other thing but death And the good Phisicians doe not trauayle but to driue death away to giue health and to kéepe and mayntayne the lyfe of men Thomas There is nothing truer then that thou sayst For I my selfe haue hearde them how they doe reioyce of their poore parishieners and say the one to the other in goyng to the tauerne Let vs go drincke vpon the first skinne that will come Theophilus What meane they by that Hillarius I do vnderstand their prouerbe But I am not much abashed although you do not vnderstād it for it is not in the Chiliades of Erasmus They compare the poore people to the beastes of whom they are the boutchers and flears as they themselues confesse by their prouerbe And neuerthelesse Eusebius is angry when we do name them by the names that they themselues haue giuen them For what other thing doth their prouerbe signifie but as the boutchers and flears haue the profite and gaine of the skinne and hyde of the beastes whom they flea Euen so also haue they the profite of the dead bodyes of which they flea I haue heard them my selfe howe they reioyce when they heare that there is any rich man sicke and in daunger of death and howe they saye let vs make good chéere For we shall haue by and by héere a good skinne for shoes and for the tanne fatte There is neither Tanner nor Cordwaytter so wealthy as those are For all the other knowe not to make their profit but of the skinnes hides of beasts But these héere do occupy the skinnes of men And although that they be vnprofitable for any woorke neuerthelesse they doe make of them more gaine then of any other insomuche that al the gaine that the Tanners do with their marroquino and vntanned hides and the Cordwamers with their shoes is nothing in comparison of that whiche these doe get with their trade Thomas I assure thée that I doe know a man at Couppet which is besides Geneun who hath made this reproche vnto the Priests of the same place and said vnto them Ye haue dronken vpon my skin but you shal pay y shot if ye wil for mo For I will not disburse any penny or farthing Hillarius Wherfore said he that Thomas Bicause that he was sicke of long time during his sicknesse the Priests hoping that he would haue dyed in short time went to the Tauerne to drinck vpon his skinne But he deceiued them did not to them the pleasure they looked for For he died not but is yet aliue to this day Hillarius The dead hath then deceiued mocked them as wel as the olde men who do spend all their goods vnder hope that they shall dye in short time afterwards as men say were constrained to go beg at the gates doores desiring to giue some almose vnto those poore people whom death hath begiled These Priests haue as great occasion to complaine of him as the Curate had who as men saye complained of his Parishoners sayinge what would you haue me do my Parishioners you will neither offer nor yet dye Whereof do ye thincke that I can lyue haue you determined the I should dye with hunger doe you not thincke Eusebius the one may say the same of them that Seneca hath written of Aruncius and Aterius and of other like who do make it an occupaciō science to purchase after heritages to watch after testaments saying that they haue the same desire which the Marrons had those who make it an occupacion to bury the dead bodies to furnish prepare that which is necessary for the burials funerals For the greater that the number of the dead bodies are so much is the game the greater both of the one and the other And therefore saith he Those the do make it an occupatiō to bury the dead know not of whom they ought to desire death But these hunters watchers after testaments
heritages doe desire that their frieÌ„ds kinsmen should die If the Priests of the Panims had bene like vnto our Priests I doubt not but that they would haue ioyned vnto those héere For they desire as much the death of men and more then those sith that they make do the occupation both of the one the other Wherfore when I heare them sing their songs so pitiously and lamentable about the dead their graues me thincks that I sée children cry as the prouerbe saith at the burying of their stepmother And that they are like vnto the little children who do wéepe laugh all with one winde by and by are appeased so the when one gyueth them a péece of bread or an apple and that which they aske for Euen so we must appease those giue theÌ„ money to comfort them Afterwards as soone as they haue receiued it behold them mapings lamentations are ended their sorrow is tourned into ioy Requiem into Gaudeanius Theophilus This that you speake séemeth to be sowre sharp vnto Eusebius But I am certeine that if he did read a little the which S. Cyprian hath written against the auarice gréedinesse of the Priests Prelates of their rapine theft towards the dead in his booke against Demetrian he shal finde the thing a little more swéeter and pleasant Hillarius I do thincke the they determine none other thing but to abolish all the institutioÌ„ of the true Church of Iesus Christ for to reduce bring it to Iewishnesse and Panimry The auncient Panims haue accustomed to hire for ready money some minstrel or many minstrels after the estate of him that dyeth who shall singe with their instruments many lamentable and pitifull songs of the calamities miseries of the olde time for to comfort the parents friends of the dead hearing of other mens misfortunes and letting them to vnderstand thereby that they were not alone For as men do commonly say The consolation comfort of the miserable is to haue compaignions They do it also to the end that thorow the harmony of the instruments they should be drawen away féele lesse dolour and griefe The minstrels then do accompany the pompe and funerall procession and play their notes before the dead body sounding their Trumpets Flutes Drumme for to moue the hearers to sorrowe and lamentation Sometime they do sing of the praise of the dead according to the note that the minstrel doth sound the affections that he giueth to his songs instruments the parents friends of the dead do strike their breasts and begin to wéepe lament and not content with that but do hire some to lament wéepe for to helpe them to sorrowe and wéepe and to singe the complaintes and chieflye women bycause that they are by nature more pitifull and myleh harted to wéepe as the Biernoys besides Gascoyne and in Alexandria doe yet vse vnto this daye and doe so their office that one woulde saye that the matter toucheth them They haue also accustomed in many places to shaue their beard in token of sorrow and mourning Thomas Whereto serueth all that for the dead Hillarius Whereto serueth for theÌ„ now all the that the Priests doe What greater honour can we doe vnto them then to bury them honestly in the earth followinge the sentence of God which hath sayd Earth thou art and into earth thou shalt retourne againe Theophilus The true seruaunts of God Patriarkes Prophets and Apostles haue not much vsed any other Ceremonies and we know not to followe a better rule and example then theirs and the admonition which the Apostle doth giue vnto vs He forbiddeth vs expresly the we should not sorrow for those the are fallen a sléepe as the Panims and Gentiles doe who haue no hope The holy Apostle would not bringe vs to such barberousnesse as hath bene sometime vsed among the Panims who did eate the dead bodies or els did giue them to be deuoured torne in péeces with dogs birdes fishes without burying them As many authours as well Panims as Christians do witnesse it of the Scithians Indians Bactrianians Hircanians Pontickes other such like barberous people Hillarius I thincke the Fryer Geneure who is so much praised in the booke of the conformities of saint Fraunces came from some of those Nations For among all the other meruailous vertues which are reported of him this is one that he caused the Diuels to flée away seuen miles without euer retourning againe It is writteÌ„ in the same booke that he sayd I would to God that when I shall dye ther do procéed and come out froÌ„ my body such a stincke the none dare to come néere it finally that men would cast me out without burying of me that I might dye all alone abhominably that they would suffer mée to be deuoured of the dogs Theophilus Some haue accused the Lutherians for that they make none accompt of the dead bodies bicause they condemne the superstitions of the Papistes But I doe not thincke that euer any of them woulde speake so vnhonestly neither of his owne body nor yet of any others Yet Diogenes had more honesty how dogish soeuer the hée was For although the he did not much take care for hys burying yet he coÌ„maunded not that one should giue his body to the dogs It is true the he did say that hée had no great care how he should be buried For those that shall haue the house will not suffer him to rot within it And if they do cast it out at the least let them cast a staffe after it for to defende and kéepe it from the dogges I knowe not in what Theology this Fryer Geneure hath learned that honestie For the Apostle speaketh not after that sort Also I would not that we should bée so superstitious in the burying as were the Grecians Romaines and other like people who estéemed themselues more humaine and honest and that wée shoulde so lament and sorrowe for the death of our parentes and friendes as they dyd as though we had no more hope and trust of the resurrection then they and as though wée dyd thincke them altogether dead and lost And although that there was more greater moderation in this among the Iewish people then among all the other and that they dyd kéepe an â—â—der more agréeing to nature yet neuerthelesse the Apostle would that we should be bolde and constaunt forasmuch as wée haue more certeine and sure witnesse of the resurrection of the dead and more greater and excellenter reuelation of the Gospell then this auncient people had at the leastwise that we doe not worse then they but that we may witnesse through our constancie and countenaunce the faith that wée haue in Iesus Christe and our hope in hys resurrection The Apostle saith not simply Sorrowe not for those that are fallen a sléepe and
the prophecie which Esay prophecyed against the Aegyptians be accomplyshed vppon them and vppon all their Fishers and vppon those which lyue about their riuers and which make the instruments of Idolatry supersticion Hillarius What is that Prophecie Theophilus Giue eare and you shall see whether it agréeth not well to our matter The water of the Sea sayth hée shall bée drawne out Nilus shall sinke away and be dronken vp The riuers also shall be drawen out and the wells shal decreace and dry away Réede and Rush shall fayle the grasse by the waters side or vppon the riuers banke yea and whatsoeuer is sowen by the waters shall be wythered destroyed and brought to nought The fisshers shall mourne all such as cast angels in the water shall complayn and they that spred their nettes in the water shal be faynt hearted Such as labour vpon Flare and Silke shal come to pouertie and they also that weaue fine workes And all those which doe make pondes and stewes for the lyuing soules shall be sorrowfull for their nettes Hillarius It is not possible to finde out a prophecie which better agreeth with them For this heere maketh mention of waters of Fisshers of Flare workers of makers of nettes of makers of pondes and stewes in which they doe keepe and holde fast the lyuing soules as the fisshers doe keepe their fishes in their stewes and fish pents It maketh also mention of their instruments of the workemen that make them the they feare nothing lesse least that the preaching of the Gospell should drye vp those riuers as Demetrius those of his sect greatly feared the thorow the preaching of Paul the honour of Diana the great goddesse of the Ephesians should be diminished their gayne with hir Therefore they are not to be blamed although they loke to it so diligently It in more then time that the vertue of God doth shew foorth it self for to deliuer his poore people from the handes of so many fishers which plunge drown so many poore soules through their lakes puddles Those are terimen marrincrs which do drowne all those which enter into their boates ships For they haue not Iesus Christe with them which causeth the windes tempests to be calme to cease which causeth alwaies a safe landing and port Theophilus And therefore it shoulde be more reasonable that we should cry after him as the Apostles did saying Lord saue vs that we should make our prayer vnto God that he would deliuer vs from that déepe take al those that be aliue then to sing for the dead For if Dauid the other seruauntes of God did complaine themselues to haue bene drowned in the lakes of tribulation and mysery that the waters haue enuironed couered them ouer the head wée haue no lesse occasson to complayne Esay desiring to signifie the misery tribulation which should come vnto Hierusalem and to all the lande of Iuda by the army of Sennacherib sayth that she shall be enuironed wyth waters vp to the throate And vseth such comparison for to let them to vnderstand that the same army shal destroy and couer all the land euen as Euphrates did couer and destroy that lande of Assyria when it ouerflowed making comparison by the souldiers host vnto the riuer bicause that both the one and the other doe passe through one lande But Hierusalem was neuer so afflicted nor oppressed by the vyolent waues of the armye of the Assyrians as the poore Church is troden downe and oppressed by that great Romish Sennacherib and his army whiche is innumerable throughout all the whole worlde as the sande of the sea But we haue spoken inough of the Lake It resteth now to absolue the doubte which I haue alreadye begun Forasmuch friende Eusebius as you say that that hell and déepe lake of which mencion is made of it in the affertory for the dead is taken for purgatory what doth y signifie which is spoken off afterwards Deliuer thē from the lyons mouth least that hell do not deuour them I beleeue the they vnderstand by the Lyon none other but the Dyuel who as S. Peter witnesseth is our enemy walketh about séeking whom he may deuour But sith the the soule is separated from the body how can it be deliuered frō the mouth of y roring denouring lyon if the soule be of a reprobate which dieth out of y saith of Christ who shal deliuer it from his throte when God hath giuen it him And if it be of a faithfull man Iesus Christe who is the strong and inuincible Lion of the tribe of Iuda who hath had the victory ouer that Lion which is aduersary and enemy vnto God hath he not already deliuered it hath not he killed and prohibited the mouth of that hungry Lion as a true Sampson and Dauid in such sorte that he hath no more teeth nor fanges for to deuoure the childen of God whom the Lord Iesus holdeth as the Lyon his pray to whome none dareth to come nigh as Esay hath written that the Lord kéepeth Hierusalem and his elect people Also I thinke it not much vnméete if we make such prayer for those that be a liue the which Iesus Christ hath taught vs to pray and say And lead vs not into temptation but deliuer vs from euill And hee him selfe hath made the prayer vnto God his Father for his discyples as witnesseth Sainct Iohn He saith not I pray thee that thou wouldest deliuer them from euill after this life nor saith I pray not that thou wouldest take them out of the world but that thou wouldest kéepe them from all euill Also S. Peter doeth not exhort vs to abstaine from meates to bée sober watche and pray and to arme vs with faith againste that roaring Lion for those that be dead but for our selues whilest that we be a liue to the ende we may auoyd his mouth for to come vnto that holy light which he hath promised vnto Abraham and vnto his seede For according to your doctrine sith that the soule is seperated from the body if man hath not had here remission of his sinnes before his death he cannot haue it after And if he haue it in this life he goeth either into Paradise or into Purgatory If he be in Paradise it is no more to bee feared that hell can swallow him vp If he bée in Purgatory although that according to your opinion he be in paynes yet neuerthelesse you confesse that he is past the danger of damnation and that he is sure of his saluation Wherefore I vnderstand not howe that prayer can agrée with the worde of God and the doctrine of the auncient doctors your owne For you speake against your selfe If that prayer doth profit the soules of the dead in the other life it must then bée that ther is yet great
hard cruell yet notwithstandinge before the face of the Lorde the death of his Saincts are precious The Panims themselues that haue had any vnderstanding were not muche carefull of the buryall although that many superstitious Idolaters haue thought that it bringeth greate hurt vnto those that haue not bene buryed Now euen as the cost which is done about the dead bodyes for their buryalles profiteth lesse vnto them then to anye other As muche may we thinke iudge of all the suffrages and cost that is done for them after their death and buriall as Saincte Augustine doth playnelye declare vppon thys place of the Plalmes They call their landes after theyr owne names What is that They bringe saith hée breads and wine vnto the graues and call it there the name of the dead How much or how often dost thou thincke that the name of that rich man hath bene called vppon afterwardes when men were dronken in remembringe him and one droppe of colde water dyd not discende to quench his hot tongue Men doe serue their bellye and not the soules of their parentes and friendes There commeth nothing vnto the soules of their deade but that whiche they haue done wyth them being alyue But if béeinge alyue they haue done nothing wyth them there commeth nothing vnto the dead What reproch had the men which vnderstoode not what they should doe wyth their ryches when they lyued and which dyd thincke that they should bée blessed if they had a memoriall in a Tombe of marble stone as an eternall house or if their parents friends vnto whom they shall leaue their goods do call their lands after their names But on the contrary they ought to prepare for themselues an euerlasting house in good workes They ought to prepare for themselues the immortall life to send the cost charges before them to follow their works to haue good regard of their néedy cōpaignion to giue vnto him with whom they do walke not to dispise Iesus Christ to wit his poore members lying ful of botches sores before the gate who hath sayd Inasmuch as you haue done it vnto one of the least of these my brethren ye haue done it to me Doth not héere Sainct Augustine cléerely say that man must do his good déeds almose not vnto the sat Moonks Priests but to the poore members of Iesus whilest the hée is héere in the way For after the he shal be out of this world the good déds almose the their parents friends do bestow of their riches profiteth them nothing at all Wherto also agreeth the which S. Hierome speaketh off saying he which shal not obtein pardō of his sins whilest the he liueth in this body shal so depart this life he perisheth to god leaueth to be Although the be do make himself subject to paines By those dronken bankets of whch Sainct Augustine speaketh off wée may sufficiently vnderstand what was the custome of the Panims which for an affection that they dyd beare vnto their parents friends for a desire that they had and also for a pompe and glorye haue dedicated some of them the thirde the seauenth ninth or tenth day others the thirtie or fortie daye for to make remembraunce for the dead and to offer for them and make feastes and bankets And haue not ordained those dayes wythout putting superstition to the number of them And yet neuerthelesse wee doe sée that the Christians altogether and wholly haue followed that manner of dooinge as it appeareth bothe by their practise and also by the booke of Durand Although that Sainct Ambrose others after him haue made Sermons decrées against that custome the which notwithstandinge coulde not be so cleane taken away and abolished but that that superstitō continueth almost euery where For men do celebrate the seauenth day tenth day anwersaries or yeare mindes wyth great bankets and pleasures as it appeareth by the canons and decrées in which it is written after this sorte No Prieste shall in any wise presume to be droncken when hée commeth to the yeare minde or to the trentenarie or to the seauenth daye or ternary of any office for the dead or to anye contraire or brotherhoode And that hée drincke nor quaffe when hée shall hée desyred for the loue and in the name of the Sainctes or for the loue of the soule of him that is deade nor that hée doo not also compell others to drinike and that he doo not play the glutton and fyll himselfe to muche wyth good chéere at the request of an other And that hée presume not to rehearse and recyte iestes and vnlawfull scoffinges playes and vaine fables nor by anye meanes to singe And that he suffer not that one shoulde make before hym vyle games and toyes and that hée consente not that one shoulde bringe before hym false visages and maskes of Dyuelles For that is dyabolicall and forbiden of the holy Canons We maye well vnderstand by that decrée of the counsayle what honestie the Priestes and Christians haue kept in such bankets sith that they must make lawes by the counsailes and wherein they differed from the Panims Wherefore if the good auncient fathers haue made anye memory of the deade it was after that sorte and manner as wée haue already spoken off and for to abolysh by that meanes the superstitious fashions of the Panims and to chaunge them to better manners sith that they cannot pluck them away altogether For if such religion was pleasinge vnto God it was meruayle that God dyd not as well ordayne certeyne feastes sacrifices and ceremonies for the dead as he hath done in all other thinges and many which séeme not to be so necessary as those héere doe estéeme the offering for the dead whom they doe grieue more then any commaundement that God hath euer gyuen If that were cōprised in the loue that we owe vnto our neighbour how could the spirite of God holde his peace Iesus Christ and saint Paul his Apostle who haue so much stroue against it and commaunded loue towardes our neighbour and haue not once spoken any word to make prayers almoste nor sacrifices for the dead If that same had bene necessary and according to the will of God why would they haue more hidden it from vs then any other thinge howe can that which Iesus Christ and also his Apostles haue sayde be true that they haue declared and manifested vnto vs all the wyll of God Doe we not then vnto them greate iniury to make that a commaundement of loue and charitie of whiche they haue neuer spoken off But I am not abashed sithe that almost in all other thinges the Priestes dooe followe the Panims and the Iewes the Mosoycall Ceremonyes abolyshed by Iesus Christe howe they haue not followed them in this matter and that they doe not absteyne to come néere the deade and to assist them at their buryalles as
wee ought not to doubte but that that faithe hath imprinted suche a crosse and such a signe and marke in our hearts and bodies the the diuel dareth not to approch nor come nigh them And if that same is not sufficient there is none other after our death which can serue vs Furthermore sith that God hath giuen vnto vs his Angels for to serue kéepe defend vs let vs not feare that as they haue caâ—ted the soule of Lazarus into Abrahams bosome and haue kepte and defended the body of Moses from the power of the diuell and did striue and fight for it against them but that they wil be also assisting vnto all true faithfull people for to kéepe their bodies soules according to the charge and commission that they haue of God and that God himselfe woulde bury them rather as he hath buried Moses then to suffer that Sathan shoulde haue domination or rule ouer them Wherfore I do greatly feare that the bodies and reliques which the idolatrous christians do worshippe and honour vnder the name and title of the saincts saintes are not the true bodies and reliques of the Saincts and true seruants of God but rather those of some malefactory or wicked man and abhominable before god For it euer any bodyes were lefte vnder the power of the olde Serpent and of the Diuell those be they of whom men haue made Idols which haue ben set vp for relicks for to be adored worshipped which haue bene the occasion among the Christian people of the greatest Idolatry the euer was in the worlde Wherefore it is most lykest to be true that the diuell maketh himselfe to be worshipped and honoured by the bodyes in which he dwelled and of which he was serued during their lyfe then in those whiche haue bene the Temple of the lyuing God and which haue serued to his honour and glory forsaking altogether the diuell and his seruice The Iewes and Cabalysts haue estéemed those purifications and ceremonyes about the dead of which we haue spoken to be necessary to their bodyes bicause that the Magicians and coniurers haue vsed to steale them awaye or to take certayne members from them for to serue for their witchcraftes to make them instruments of the diuell as it appeareth by the witnesse of many auncient writings and historyes Hillarius Lucan declareth it very playnely describing the Witchcraftes and Sorceryes of Erichtho For that same cause the custome was in Thessalia the which hath alwayes had the name to be full of Enchaunters Witches and Coniurers that when any man was dead a certeine Seriaunt or common Heralde cryed with a loude voyce in the open stréete that if there were any man which woulde kéepe a dead body lette him come foorth and bargaine and agrée for the price Thomas Wherefore did they so haue the dead bodyes in Thessaly vsed to run away or whether they were more daungerous then in other countryes Hillarius Thou mayst well knowe that the deade bodyes can no more byte any man and that they are in an euil case for to runne away sith the they must be carryed to be buryed their seete stretched out right before But I thinke that thou hast not forgotten that which we haue spoken of the Panyms how that they doe not bury their dead by and by and the causes wherefore And therefore the Thessalians vsed to keepe their dead al the night vntil the day that they burned their bodies and buried their ashes bicause they had that opinioÌ„ that the sorcerers did come in the night and did byte their faces and dismember them for to serue them for their enchauntements and witchcraftes and for to doe the same they transforme and chaunge them selues into the forme and likenes of what beast they list sometime into the likenes of birdes some time like dogs or myce yea into the likenes of very flyes and afterwards doe flye and come into the houses and enter so subtilly and secretly that none cane perceiue it And when they are entred within they thorowe their enchauntements doe make those that keepe them fall into a slepe afterwards they doe vnto the dead bodies what it pleaseth them For that cause the parents and frinds of the dead did hire kéepers for a péece of money for to watch all the night by the dead bodie without sléeping any thing at all not so much as to winke or to turne their face here and there but to haue theyr eyes alwayes fixed vpon the dead body After that they haue founde out keepers whiche will take vppon them that charge they deliuer the body vnto them in charge hauing witnesses how they haue deliuered it all whole and sound afterwards they shut them into a chamber with the dead body and a lampe full of Oyle for to giue them light vntill the morning and water within vessels And if he that kéepeth it do not take good héede of the body the next day whatsoeuer is wanting or diminished of the dead body that he hath euil and negligently kept hee is bounde to restore and recompence it of his owne proper face Thomas These people were verye fooles to beléeue such follyes Who hath written the same Hillarius A good doctor called Apuleus whiche saith that he hath done that office himselfe Thomas Truely thou hast very well founde it Peraduenture he hath séene the same whilest that he was chaunged into an Asse Hillarius I do confesse that the same is a great dreaming But do not the christians almost the like doe not they also watche the dead bodies with a candle and holy water Are they afrayd that they would runne away or least the Cattes or Mice should come and gnawe the féete and the face of the dead or whether they are afraid of witches and coniurers or that the diuell shoulde carry them away as one hath written of some whose bodies are not yet toune if God hath giuen power vnto the diuels ouer the dead bodies the water candles fire nor incense shall not make them afrayd nor yet the witchecraftes and coniurations except they will say that they do vse charme against charme and that theirs is more stronger then those of the enchauntors Theophilus It is not now néede that they take such paines for to driue awaye the diuels or the socerers from them For their was neuer forcerer coniurer nor enchauntor that abused more vile and shamefully the bodies of men nor to the greater dishonoure of God and hurte of all the Christianitie then the Priestes and Moonks who in steade of the coniuring that is to say diuination by the dead that the Panyms and Infidels haue exercised and vsed they haue set vp erected a necrolatrie that is to say an adoration and worshipping of the dead and the most greatest Idolatrie that euer was vpon the earth And haue made the bodies of men to serue the diuell haue made him to be worshiped
the Apostles the whiche some among the auncients and among the Popes and counsels haue bene holden some for Canonical and others for Apocripha bicause that they doe serue in many thinges confirmable to the Apostolicall doctirne but they were not bound vnto them as vnto the holy Scriptures whiche they cannot reiect as they haue done often times when they haue found any Canon whiche séemeth much to differ from the Apostolicall doctirne Euen so maye we do of the bookes of the Machabees We may wel draw out of them examples for to exhorte the faithfull vnto paclence constancy and Martirdome propounding and declaring vnto them the vertue and the faith of that good mother with hir seuen sonnes who stoode so constantlye vnto death for to mainteine the Lawe of Gode who had not yet neuerthelesse such an occasion to doe that as we whiche haue more sure and certeine witnesses of the resurrection and of examples more euident aswell in Iesus Christ as in his Apostles dysciples then they had And so said S. Augstyne But it followeth not therfore that touching the doctrine which concerneth the faith and religion they should be with equall authority with the others And therefore the glose made vpon the decrée recysith them among the Apocripha Eusebius I woulde gladly that thou wouldest declare vnto mée a litle more plainely what thou vnderstandest by the Canonicals and Apocripha Theophilus I doe call canonicall all the bookes of the new testament the whiche wée haue and of the doe in like manner all those whiche are conteyned in the Hebrwe Bible the which we haue receiued of the holy Prophets and true seruaunts of God and whose authors are certeine and knowen And we doe cal them Canonicall which signifieth asmuch as rules bicause they are of an infallible veritie a certeine sure rule whiche is giuen vs of god for to ruel examine al other doctrine to proue the spirites whelter they are of God and for to liue according to the same Eusebius And what vnderstandest thou by Apocripha Theophilus Apocripha signifieth a thing hid secret or obscure which hath no sure or certein author or which is not alowed as are y bokes to y title is applies made at which are not sufferable but insomuch as their doctrin is confirmable vnto that of Canonicalls the which ought to be ruled by them And they haue no firme authoritie but that which those doe giue vnto it For in steede that we may take a sure foundation and buylding vppon any place taken out of the Canonicalls we cannot doe it in those heere if they haue not alreadye their foundation on the other They haue not bene called Apocrypha bicause that it was not lawfull to haue them in ones lybrary and to reade them with iudgement for ones profite For that was not forbidden But haue taken that name bicause that they were not of such authoritie the one should holde them for a sure and infallible doctrine of the church of God And they were not red and expounded openly in the same and with such authoritie as those which without doubt were holden for the certeyne worde of God to the which we are bounde to beléeue and to submit put our iudgement vnder them not to eleuate it aboue them or to iudge them by the other bookes which ought to bée subiect vnto them Eusebius And wherefore haue some of them more that authoritie then the others Theophilus Bicause that of the one we are cert eyne which are the pure wordes of God but not of the others but to the contrary Eusebius By what meanes Is it not bicause the Churche hath allowed them and not the other Now sith that their authority dependeth of the authority of the church if shee doe receine these here as the Canonicall maketh them of equall authoritie wherefore shall not they bée in the same degree Theophilus I doe beleeue that thou doest thinke that the church hath accustomed to legittimate the bookes as the Pope doth legittimate his bastardes The Popishe church may well take in hande that but that is not the propertie of the of Iesus Christ And although she woulde legittimate them yet they must be takē as bastards legitimated by the Pope which cannot be notwithstanding borne in lawfull maryage but do abide alwayes bastards and sonnes of fornication How can the daughter engender and beget hir Mother or hir Father Howe can the Church giue authoritie to the woorde of God who of the same receyueth hirs and of the same is begotten and borne Of whome receiueth the Sunne his brightnesse Doth hée receiue it of men whome hee illuminateth and lighteth Eusebius No. But on the contrary men of it Theophilus Is it cléere and shining bicause that men doe iudge and confesse it to bée such Eusebius No. But bicause that it is such the men that doe sée it and haue the experience are constrayned to acknowledge and confesse it to bée such Theophilus Thou meanest notwithstandinge that the Sunne should bee cleere and giue light bicause that men doe thincke it to bée so Eusebius Thou doest mée wrong to impute vnto mée that which I neuer spake but altogether contrarye Theophilus Thou hast sayd it by other wordes Whereby thou doest not perceiue thy selfe For when thou saydest that the holy Scripture taketh hys authoritie of the church thou sayest that men do giue lyght and cléerenesse vnto the Sun. For as Dauid doth wytnesse the word of the Lord is pure cléere that is the light which giueth light vnto the eyes giueth wisdome vnto babes It is then certeyne and true not bycause the Church iudgeth it such but it iudgeth it such bicause that it is so and cannot iudge of it otherwyse no more then he which hath cléere eyes can iudge of the lyght of the Sunne of whiche the blinde person is not capable Wherefore hée cannot iudge no more then the Infidells and reprohate can iudge of the woorde of God nor allowe it Then thou mayst by this vnderstand that the certeynetye veritie and firmenesse doth not depende vppon mans opinion and iudgement but vppon the holy Ghost and of the proper force vertue and effectes by which it doth verifie it selfe and compelleth the faythfull heartes to allow and receiue it as the lyght of the Sunne doth the eies For the sheepe doe heare and vnderstand the shepeartes voyce but not that of the straungers And all that that the Prophetes haue forshewed and taught the Apostles in lyke manner haue bene verified and authorysed by the vertue of him which hath spoken in them insomuch that all the worlde cannot resist it Nowe wée cannot saye she lyke of the bookes of the Machabees chiefely of the seconde First for that it is not founde in the Hebrewe and that the stile of the same witnesseth cléerely that it was first made in Greeke and was not translated frō the Hebrew tongue into the Greeke tongue
and minutes Theophilus Thou séest howe hée is already iudged and yet hée is not He is sufficiently iudged and condemned as to himselfe sith that he hath his conscience his confession his witnesse and his processe against himselfe and that he accompteth himselfe alredy as dead But neuerthelesse there is yet a more greater horror to be brought to iudgemeÌ„t to heare the sentence of his Iudge to be condemned and executed openly notwithstanding that he is already sufficiently condemned being in the prison yet neuertheles the Iudge must pronounce openly his last sentence that his iudgement be put in execution As much may wée say of the Diuels and reprobate Whilest that the wicked doe liue héere in this worlde they are lyke vnto malefactors before that they are apprehended and taken When God calleth them from this worlde hée cyteth them before hym â—or to appeare in iudgement And they are as though they were cast in prison lookinge for their latter sentence which shall bee giuen them in that great â—aye in which all processe all causes and appeales shall ende Beholde the cause wherefore Sainct Peter maketh mention of the bondes and chaines with which GOD bindeth y diuels which he hath reserued to his iudgemeÌ„t vsing humaine and materiall comparisons for to declare vnto vs y heauenly spirituall things That is the cause wherefore the wicked spirites doe pray vnto Iesus Christ that hée will not sende them into the déepe complaininge and lamentinge bicause that they did féele by his comming their iudgement to approch nigh And therefore they cried O Iesu thou sonne of Dauid art thou come hether to torment vs before our time be come We cannot doubt but that they were already tormented before as the malefactor which is in the â—â—ockes and chaines But they haue dreadful feare when they do sée their Iudge and that they doe féele their last sentence to drawe nigh Thomas It is to be meruailed at how the one of the matters bringeth in the other and giueth vnderstandinge of it Thou hast deliuered me from one great doubt thou hast instructed me how I ought to aunswere vnto a very hard question the which was propunded vnto me not long a goe that is to say If after that the soule is seperated from the body whether y it goeth straight way into Paradise or into hell For if it goeth into Paradise or into hell it seemeth that the iudgement is alredy done that we must tary no longer for it or if we ought to looke and tary for an other that y soules of the faithfull or vnfaythfull haue not yet a place assigned vnto them for to receyue felicitie or malediction And therefore some doe saye that they sleepe vntill that great iourney But thou hast taken from mée the doubt and hast satisfied mee thorowly Theophilus Wee must not bee abashed althoughe those that sleepe doe dreame But we ought rather to bee abashed to see those that be awake to dreame and to beleeue and giue credite vnto the dreames of the sleepers For if it were so the woorkes of God agaynst their nature should rather diminish then increase and thâ— faythfull ought more to feare the corporall de 〈◊〉 then thâ— vnfaythfull For by the death the vnfaythfull should bée at rest and the faythfull shoulde bée depriued from that portion of the eternall felicitie the which they haue alredy tasted off in this world the which they ought to haue mor amply after that they be delyuered from the prison of this mortall body I beléeue most assureâ—ly that if Sainct Paul had thought that hée must haue slepte so longe 〈◊〉 in bodye and soule after his decease wythout hauing more â—â—â—ple fruition of the heauenly goodnesse and ioyes then hée had in this worlde that hée would neuer haue sayde What to choose I wotto not I am constrayned of two thinges I desire to be loosed and to bee wyth Christ which thing is best of all Neuerthelesse to abyde in the fleshe is more néedfull for you For in stéede to receyue more greater goodnesse as hée desired hée was â—â—mpayred and made worse and that portion of the heauenlye goodnesse that hée had already tasted off lyuing in thys bodye was better for him then to bée altogether spoyled of it and to sléepe beeing insensible as a stone two or thrée thousande yeares Hillarius Cycero was but a Panim and an heathen man who was not very certeine nor assured of the eternall lyfe nor perfectly resolued of the immortalytie of the soules but yet neuerthelesse hee sayth that he would not lyue nyntie yeares in such sorte that after that he had depassed thrée score yeares hée shoulde sléepe the residue of nentie yeares But whiche is more hée addeth is that matter the Hogges woulde not desyre that muche lesse I By that accompte hée esteemeth the lyfe of Hogs better then that of man all the whyle as hée abydeth a sléepe bycause that the sleeper is an Image of death the whiche alwayes representeth hymselfe in sléeping Theophilus And therefore I dooe conclude that notwithstandinge that the Lorde by hys prouydence hath constituted and appointed that the bodyes doe sléepe in the earth as in their hedde vntyll the resurrectyon that the number of their bretheren shal be fulfilled yet neuertheles the faithful nor the vnfaithfull neuer are without their Paradise their hell the which the more as they doe approch to their consummation ende so much y more doe they encrease augment vntill such time as they are come vntill the latter degrée of felicitâ—e or infelicitie beneâ—iction or malediction Thomas After the same manner as thou procéedest thou wilt leaue vs neither Lymbe nor Purgatory Theophilus As touching the Lymbe if one doe take it for the bosome of Abraham and the condition of the â—uncient fathers which haue bene before the comming of Iesus Christ I will not much dispute of the wordes if we agrée in the thing I am well contented to confesse that the condition of the auncientes as well those that bée lining as those that bée dead compared vnto ours in respect of the same may be estéemed as a prison in price of a palaice If we doe beholde the shadowes and figures vnder whose darknesse they haue bene deteyned and kept in respect of vs and the seruitude and bondage of the Mosaicall lawe vsinge suche comparisons as Sainct Paul who compareth all this auncient people vnto young children which are vnder their Tutor and Master and vnto seruauntes which are vnder the feare of their Master in comparison of the Christian people the which hée compaseth vnto the true natural perfect children which are already out of boÌ„dage gouernment saying that they haue not receiued y spirit of bondage feare but the spirit of adoption of libertie Vpon which we ought to note y the Apostle denieth not simply but that those good auncient fathers haue had the same spirit of
paine of which Iesus Christ speaketh off maye bée héere in this worlde or at the daye of iudgement or in hell as the same of the Sodomites Gomorrians and their lyke Or thou shalt bée constrayned to put into Pargatorye all the wicked and reprobate which haue bene sithence the beginning of the worlde For the Lorde doth alwayes menace and threaten with more grieuous paine the successors sors then the predecessors bicause that they doe agrauate alwayes more more the iudgement of God vppon them bicause that the light is more greater reuealed vnto them and that they haue more examples of the iudgements of God that which they despise do yéeld themselues culpable not onely of their wickednessé but also of the sinnes of their fathers and predecessors allowing them by their doings Thomas The sleepers and dreamers may take from that place an argument for to proue their dreames bicause it séemeth by the words of Iesus Christ that the paine of the Sodomits and Gomorrians is differred vntill the day of iudgement But thou hast already shortned and cut off the way for them in declaring vnto vs bow the iudgement is already done and how it is yet to doe Theophilus These two places ought very well to incitate and stirre vs forward to follow veritie and to seke it For ignoraunce exempteth vs not from the iudgement of God the which commeth of our fault chiefely in these dayes that the Gospell is so cléerely reuealed vnto vs. Eusebius Therefore I desire to know and well vnderstaÌ„d all those places which might yet trouble my braines amonge which there is one in the actes of the Apostles which some men doe interprete for the Purgatory It is there written that God hath raised vp Iesus Christ and 〈◊〉 sâ—d the sorrowes of Hell. Nowe he hath not loosed the sorrowes of the hell fire or gebenne which are eternall nor of the Limbe For there is to be had ioy and consolation It followeth then that the same ought to bée vnderstanded of the sorrowes of Purgatory As much may we say of many like places which are in the Psalmes as these héere vnto which Dauid said The sorrowes of hell compassed â—e Then Lord hast brought my soule out of hell God shall deliuer my soule from the power of hell when he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 And Iob sayth in like manner O y thou waâ—idest â—eepe mée and hide mée in the hell vntyll thy wrath â—ere stilled and to appointe me a time wherein thou mightest remember mée what other hel can we héere vnderstand then Purgatory Theophilus I am abashed of the great ignorance of such interpreters of the scripture For first in the place of the acts it is not in the Gréeke copies the sorrowes of hel and it was not so written of S. Luke For he hath sayd the sorrowes of death and not of hell although that in your common translation it is written as thou sayest But although it were so all shoulde come to one ende For the text doth plainely declare that Saint Peter speaketh in that Sermon of the resurrection of Iesus Christ and that hée himselfe expoundeth hell for the tribulations extreme sorrowes the death the pit the sepulchre the low places and the estate and condition of the dead from which Iesus Christ is raised He maketh there no mencion of the Limbe of Purgatory nor of the gehenne or hell fire That same solution sufficeth for all the other places by thée alledged For that is very common in the Scripture to take hell in that signification as it appeareth by those places the which thou bast put foorth For how many times saith the Prophet in those same places The sighings of the dead haue enuironed me I haue called vpoÌ„ thée in my trouble I haue cryed vnto thée and thou hast healed mée Thou hast deliuered mee from those that goe down into the pit He meaneth none other thing by those woords but that he setteth foorth and declareth that hell from which he was deliuered Wherefore I am greatly ashamed both of Eccius and of Cochleus for that they were not ashamed to alledge such places for to mainteine their Purgatory Eusebius Whatsoeuer thou sayest it seemeth neuerthelesse that already in the time of Saint Paul the Christians were of an opinion that the liuinge might giue some ayde vnto the deade by that that hée writeth of those which did baptise themselues for the dead Nowe that could not profite neither those which were in Paradise nor those which were in hell It must be then that it profiteth those of Purgatory Theophilus Thou oughtest alreadye to haue vnderstanded by that which hath bene sayde of that place that it can serue nothing at all for Purgatory I doe not denye vnto thée but that in the time of the Apostles there were suffrages and prayers for the dead But that was among the Panims and Idolaters as it hath bene already very amply entreated off amongest vs And doubte not but that there remayneth some roote of such superstition in some of those which are called Christians But if it were so as thou doest vnderstande it it followeth not therefore that Sainct Paul alloweth that manner of dooing As the auncient Doctors themselues dooe witnesse it namely Sainct Ambrose For I may well take an argument against a Papist which will denye vnto mée the resurrection or immortalitie of the soules with their manner of dooings towardes the dead for to beate him with his owne swoorde and yet I will not allow neuerthelesse their superstition But it is not néedfull to stay any more vpon that place sith that I haue already declared vnto thée howe the auncientes haue vnderstanded it and howe it is also expounded by others For whatsoeuer exposition that thou maist giue vnto it it cannot serue for thy purpose And there was neuer any of the auncientes which hath dreamed that the same was done bicause of Purgatorye For Epiphanius witnesseth that those which baptised themselues for the dead which were dead before that they had receiued Baptisme did it to that ende that when they shoulde rise againe in the resurrection they shoulde not bée punished for that they haue not bene baptised in this worlde He sayth that such was their opinion Wherefore it is easily to knowe that they did not thinke of Purgatory Hée toucheth yet an other exposition of that place the which hée alloweth But yet it maketh lesse for thée To conclude that place serueth as much for your broylers of soules for to proue your Purgatory as for the Marcionistes heretickes who as witnesseth Theophilactus doe drawe them to their purpose for to proue their baptisme which they receiue for the dead For when any dyed among them without baptisme they had a custome that one that was a liue should enter within the béere of the dead or where the dead was layde Afterwards they did come vnto the béere and demaunded of the dead if he will be baptised Then the liue man
full resolution they will fall vppon this sence Although that Iesus Christ be dead as touching his flesh body and humanitie yet neuerthelesse he is quickened by the spirite that is to say by his eternall vertue and diuine power by the which hee is not onely risen from death but also hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh and hath tourned death into lyfe quickening by the same all those which were dead thorow sinne And to the ende that none should dispise Iesus Christ bicause that he is dead and was crucified as a vyle and an abiect person he declared that he is so dead that there is no lyfe but in his death and that none can lyue but by him and that he is not onely to day but euerlasting and that by the same spirite and diuine and eternall vertue he is already an other time come vnto the worlde and hath iudged and condempned the rebells the proude and peruerse spirits oppressed with wicked spirites which were not vnder their kéeping but did sléepe not thinking on the iudgement of god vntil such time as the floud ouerwhelmed and drowned them as he doth yet at this present by that same spyrite by the which hée Iudgeth an condempneth the world and saueth and quickeneth his elect euen as he did in the time of Noe. Hillarius It seemeth that that exposition is also a little vyolated far fetched neuerthelesse it commeth not euill to purpose but séemeth to agrée well inough to the letter of the text of S. Peter Theophilus Bicause that the place is obscure hard I dare not to define pronounce of it rashly But I would gladly put forth these expositions to that ende you may iudge of theÌ„ for to awake the spirits for to finde out some better thing Neuertheles I thinke that this héere is the simplest that is to say that S. Peter willing to shew foorth the efficacie vertu of Iesus Christ of his death and passion witnesseth that it was so great that the lyuing haue not onely felt perceiued it but the dead also vnto whom it is come But in what manner or after what sort How is it communicated vnto vs and all his giftes and graces but by his spirite and diuine vertue Euen as then by his spirite he hath giuen vnto vs his quickening flesh which is vnto vs spirite and lyfe and hath communicated vnto vs his vertue so hath he manifested himselfe by the same spirite vnto the deade both during their lyse and after their death For it is sayde of Abraham that he did sée the day of the Lord and reioyced If he hath then already during this mortal lyfe felt the efficacie and vertue of Iesus Christ long time before that he didde offer his eternall sacrifice wée cannot doubt but that he and all the others which were in his bosome haue felte it more fully when he did manifest himselfe more fully By this we may well vnderstand whereto this place can serue to proue Purgatory For if the vertue of the death and passion of Iesus Christ be of such efficacie that it goeth vnto the dead what néede haue we then of Masses and Suffrages of the Priests for to comfort the dead and to apply vnto them the merits of Iesus Christ sith that none can do it but he himself by the vertue of his spirite which quickeneth the quicke and the dead Now hée calleth that manifestacion predication not that he hath preached verbally or by mouth towards the dead such as is among the lyuing but bicause that euen as by the preaching and Euangelycall ministring Iesus Christ is manifested vnto vs and doe feele the vertue and efficacie of his death and passion Also the spirits of the dead haue theirs but in their maner and such as apperteineth vnto them euen as we doe vnderstande that God gaue himselfe to his Angells to be knowen and to make them tast of his bountie and goodnesse but by an other meane then vnto vs bicause that their condition was contrary We must not then dreame out a Lymbe and a materiall prison and a locale descending of the spirite of Iesus Christ into hell and a preaching such as wée haue But wée must vnderstande all those things spiritually For as it is not néedfull that Iesus Christ should descend locally from heauen for to make vs feele his vertue so it is not necessary to descend into hell For the vertue of his spirite is such that it filleth heauen and earth and is spread abrode euery where Hillarius As I thinke our dreaming Theologians had very much leasure wheÌ„ they setled themselues to dispute whether the soule of Iesus Christ did suffer in the hell Amongest the which some of them are founde to bée of opinion that he did Theophilus If they had wel vnderstanded that which Iesus Christ sayd vnto the théefe This day shalt thou be with me in Paradise and how Iesus Christ descended into hell when his soule was sorrowfull and in anguish euen vnto the death and that he hath dronken vp the cup of the wrath and furor of God and hath borne his iudgement and our malediction and curse and the dampnation due vnto our sinnes insomuch that he was stroken beaten of God hath suffered death after which he descended into the sepulchre or graue they should not haue néeded againe to make the soule of Iesus Christ to descend from Paradise in which it was for to goe into hell For it is sufficiently giuen vnto the spirites of his elect to vnderstand which haue receiued consolation and vnto those of the reprobate declaringe vnto them from what goodnesse they were depriued without descending or assending Eusebius To what purpose then doth he speake of the prison and what other thing can hée vnderstand but the Lymbe of which it is also spoken in Zachery saying I haue let thy prisoners out of the pit where is no water Theophilus By the Words of Zachery the Lord giueth vs to vnderstand none other thing but that by the bleud of the alliance that he hath made with Syon he will deliuer his people that are captiue kept in the bottom of all miseries By the prisoners he vnderstandeh his people that bée in captiâ—itie by y euils he vnderstandeth a captinitie a goulse and bottome of all miserye from which it is not possible for them to come out by any meanes if God doe not delyuer them himselfe Therefore he calleth it Welles for to declare the depth yea yet without water in which one cannot swimme to the ende they may the better knowe their miserie and the grace and mercy of God towardes them When S. Peter did speake of the prison of the spirits he did it for to amplyfie the better the grace of the Gospell comparing those which wer vnder the seruitude bondage of the law vnder those shadows figures vnto those which shall be in a prison in
1. Iohn 3. â—â— Colos 3. â— 3 Augmentacion of the felicitie to the Angels 1. Peâ—er 1. â—â—â— Psal. 9â— c. 11 Hebr. 1 c. â— Luc. 15. c. 10 1. Cor. 6 â— 2. Ephâ— 3 b. 10 Christ the restorer of all thinges Ephe 1 b 10. Collo 1 â— â—â— Rom. â— d. â—â— Torments of the reprobate aggraâ—ated 2. Peter 2. 2. 4. 2. Peter 2. b. 9 The beginning of gods iudgmeÌ„t Conscience Câ—nscâ—â—ncia 〈◊〉 â—â—stâ—â— Iâ—â—â—nal Saâ—y 13. Cur tamen hos tu Euasisse puteâ— quos dâ—â—â— consâ—â—â— sacti Meus reddit attonitos surdo verbere câ—dit Occultum quâ— tiâ—ntâ— anâ—mum tortore stâ—gelluÌ„ Item Exemplo quâ—d cunque malo committitur ipsi Displicet autori prima haec est vlâ—â—â— quod se Iudiâ—â— nemo noâ—â—ns absoluitur Item Nocte dâ—â—que suum gestat â—n pectore testem Spartano cut dam respondâ—t Pythia â—ates Deut. 28. c. 15. Esa. 57. d. 20. Genes 4. b. 8 Mat. 27. â— â— Act. â— c. 1â— The vvitnesse of conscience that there is a GOD. 1. Iohn 3. d. 20 The beginning of hell and of Paradise Iohn 3. 5. 6. The Fuâ—yes and she diuells Iuuenal Sat. 13 â—ug Aene. 6 Cic. in oraâ— pro Piso The vvorme of conscience Esa. 66. g. 24 Mar. 9. g. 41 The degrees of the Iudgement of God. 2. Pet. 2. 2. 4 Mat. 8. d. 29 Mar. 5. 2. 7 The estate of y soules after they be seperated froÌ„ the bodye The sleepers Philip. 1 c. 22. Tusâ— q. â—â— â— The Image of death 2 Cor. 5. Gasâ— 4. â— 2 Roâ— â— â— â—â— 2. Cor. 3 The insufficiencie of the booke of the Machabees for to proue Purgatory The example of Iudas Payne faulte Grace but halfe Halfe a sauiour Raymond Vnde versus Gratta magna Det ventam non dimidiabit Aut nihil aut totum propâ—tiando dâ—biâ— The Pope more puissant then Christ God compared vnto tyrants 1. Tim. 2. b. 6 Prayers for the resurrection Hovv one maâ— pray for y dead Daniel 9 â— 4. Reg 22. d 2. Cor 34. f Ezech 18. e. 20 Hovv the child beareth y offcÌ„ce of his father Exo. 20. a 5 4. Reg. 17 Mat 23. d 35 Luc 11 g 5â— 2. Mach 12. f. 4c Acham Iosua 7. c. 18 Hovv those that are dead are punished in their successours 4. Reg. 10. a. 1. Esa. 13. 14. To pray for the resurrection of the body the coÌ„ming of christ Apoc. 6. c 10 Esa. 40 c. 13 Esa. 14. â— 26 Mat. 10. d. 29 Luc. 12. â— 7 Mat. 6. d. 33 7. b. 8 Luc. â— b. 9 1. Cor. 15. To pray for the Sainctes vvhich are in Paradise A nevy Letany Fryer Christopher Masse of Reqâ—â—em for the Sainctes One onely baptisme of Iesus Christ Carolus Horostratus The vvar of the Gyants Sinne vnto death 1. Iohn 5. d. 16 Ismael Genes 16. c. 12 Gal. 4. d. 30 Sara and Agar Isaac Ismael Genes 21. b 9 The church of Lausanne 3. Reg. 2. g 44 Psal. 139. b. 23 Act. 1. d. 24 Apostles of the circumcisâ—on Gal. 5. a Phil. 3. a Vayne glory Skirmiâ—shers The metaphisicall Theology Euse de pra eâ—an â—â— 14. ca. 2 Archesilaus Hydra Gerion Hercules Mat. 8. b. 14. Maâ— 1. c. 29 2. Cor. 11. d. 1â— A signe for to iudge the false and true Prophets A nevv transfiguration of Sathan Purgatory for the body A troublesome doctrine Mat. 12. d. 44. Masses for the young children Tho. dist 12. li. 4. deffc enche Reisersp de mor. vâ—rt Sermo dom â— aduent The disposition of this dialogue Thob 4. d 18. The booke of Thobie The exposition of the place of Thoby 〈…〉 stovve ones bread vvine vpon the burtial of the righteous Thobâ—â—â—â—â— The place of Thoby 〈◊〉 to the 〈◊〉 An other pâ—ace taken out of the psalme 66 The place of the 1. Cor 3. c. 11 Aunswere to the place of the Psalmes Esaiâ— 4. â— 4. â—ere 49. â— 27 1. Pet. 1. b 7. 1. Cor. 3 â—â—â— The exposition of the place of the Corrithians The tresure of the Church De ciui dei li. 21. ca. 26. Trac defid oper c. 16. Ench. ca. 68 Theophila in 1. Cor. 3. Psal. 19 c. 11 A comparison of the dâ—â—â—ne and humâ—â—ne doctrine The day of the Lord. The fire â— Pet â— b. 7 To be saued by the syre Col 1. c. 18. â— b. 10. â—â—hc 1. d. 22 The 〈◊〉 of foolish builders Philip. 3. b. 8 Ambro. in 1. Cor. 3. The custome of the false and truâ— doctors Psal. 116 b. 11 2. Cor. 4. c 13 Proueâ—bâ— Rogula Lesbia Arist â—â— â— mora Eras chil The place oâ— Maâ— â— â—â— â—5 The Sargeants of Purgatoriâ— Lâ—â— 16. b. â—0 Act â—â— b. 7 â—eon de â—tin seâ—â— dâ—â—â—or Aut Floâ—eâ—â—ia Sum. Prouerbe The candlâ— before The vse of allegâ—â—â—es Exposition allegoâ—â—â—all Mercâ—â—y The sence of the vvords of â— Iesus Christ Bretherly re 〈◊〉 Châ—â—sâ—â—â— Mâ— 5. Homil. 16. The prison Doâ—â—â— Genes â— b. â— Math. â— d 25 Helindius Psa â—â—â— â—â— The sence and meâ—ning of the parable Maâ— â—â— â— â—0 The 〈◊〉 â—â—d meaning of the vvords of Saâ—â—t Luke â—1 The place of Sainct Mat. â—â— c 31. Luc. â—â— b. â—0 Dialo 4. Dâ—st 25. ca Qualâ—s Ex puris negatiuâ—â— nihil sequitur Mar 3. d 19 Propositions Eqâ—pollâ—â—is Diâ—ersitie of pardons Sinne against the holy Ghost Against the Crigenisteâ— A temporal eternitie Chriso in Mat. 12. â—omel 42 1. Cor. â—â— 2 〈◊〉 â— Luc 6. c. 23 Genâ—â— â—â— â— 24 Iohn 15 Act. 20 â—â— 20 Preâ—ching to the dead â—ohn 35â— The povver of the keyes Mat. 16 c. 19 18. c. 18 The povver of the keyes the Indulgences for the dead In. 4. Sent. Resâ—erper de mor virt serm Dom. in sexa Betvvene vvhether the soules of purgatory are prented Monkes dead to the vvorld Prouerbe Mortus non mordent The dead do byte The Pope the 〈◊〉 of Saint Peter Absolucion of the quick and the dead The office of a Lieutenant Math â— c. 22 Mat 18. c. â—0 28. d 20 The keyes of Saint Peter the Pope Simon Peter Mat. 16. c. 19 Iohn 1. â—â— 42 The keyes of Symon Iohn 10. â— 7 Luc. 11. g. 52 Purgatery of purses Pagatore The great lockyer The priesthod of the dead The papisticall creame Character indelibilis so Chanes de sacra Corp. Châ—â— The burning of the consience 1. Tâ—â—oth 4. â— 2. The marke of the vvhore Apoc. 13. c. 8 Apoc. 7. â— 4 The example of Fryer Roger Tho. dist â—5 q. 2. dist 20 q. â— ar 3. dist 4â— q. 4. ar 1. The bulles in purgatory The intercessioÌ„ of the Saints for vs. Grego Rat. 〈◊〉 off â—â— 7 Rub. de off Mort. Aug. li. de â—ur pro mor. Agen. 13. q. 2 Fatendum Raâ— dâ—â—â— off Râ—b de off mor. The Pope hath more povvâ—r 〈◊〉 the saâ—â—ts Syllogismâ— The pope is god â—â—â— more then god Antechrist 2. thess. â— 2. â— â— The place of Purgatory Plut. lâ— de faâ—â—â— quâ— vâ—situr in Lunaâ— The keyes