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A40227 The papists strength, principles, and doctrines (which they are sworn to preach, from the Councel of Trent, by the Popes authority, and after confirmed by the last General Assembly at Rouen, 1571, all which they have sworn to perform) answered and confuted furthermore their principles and doctrines answered and confuted, as they were laid down in two or three severall papers, by R.W. papist, lately sent from Holland : also a challenge to the pope and all his adherents to choose out of all his dominions some cardinals, fryers, or Jesuits to try their bread and wine, after consecration (by watching on their side and on our side) to prove that if afterward they have consecrated it, whether the bread and wine doth not loose its taste and savour, and so not the body and blood of Christ : also a paper to all them that fast and afflict themselves who are in the will-worship and voluntary humility : also some quæries to all the papists upon earth to be answered in writing and sent to them, which all sects upon the earth call Quakers / by George Fox. Fox, George, 1624-1691.; Howgill, Francis, 1618-1669. 1658 (1658) Wing F1877; ESTC R3577 83,037 105

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sutable proofs for the Pope and sutable examples First the Priest-hood is ended they were never in that latitude neither are you to be measured with them neither do any true Christians As for Esau and wicked Magistrates the fruits of this amongst you has appeared and the wicked must bow before the just and Esau the elder must be a seruant to the younger and salvation is come out of Sion who judges the mount of Esau and is gathering the elect Jacob who rides over the high places of the earth which have set up your Images but you have shewed the fruits of Esau who are slaying and killing the just But who be in the power of Christ who hath all power in heaven and earth given unto him be out of Esau's and be o' th top on his mount and answers the Elect. Pr. He saith that Purgatory is a temporall punishment to faithfull persons after death who have not done due pennance for their sins in their life time so must do pennance after death Answ. The faithful persons that be in the true faith of Gods Elect which is the mistery held in a pure conscience which gives victory over the world purifies the heart by which men are justified and please God This gives them victory over death sin hell and all that which you do pennance for Now they that be reprobate concerning this faith are doing pennance all their lifetime and say they must have a Purgatory to do pennance when their life is ended and so all poor people you have a pittiful thing to passe through a fire before you be purified And as for Christs and the Apostles and Saints sufferings you are found in that nature that caused the just always to suffer and as for your Doctrine of Purgatory it is come up since the days of the Apostles amongst the Apostates the Devill has set it up who is out of the truth by his power since he set up his Synagogue but who be in the faith be over his Purgatory and synagogues and the Doctrine of it which is come up since the dayes of the Apostles for which there is no Scripture for the Saints which believed had passed from death to life and so from the Purgatory For purgatory is in the death he that passeth from it comes over Purgatory and death both to reigne with Christ here you shew your selves you are not believers Pr. The receiving of the Sacrament thou saist is not for the cleansing of you from sin but for the nourishment of your souls the body and blood of Christ being in it Answ. Why do you and the Protestants kill one another about such things seeing that you say the body and blood of Christ is in the Sacrament the bread and wine And the Protestants say in it is the spirit of Christ as you may look in a book called the Scotch Principles and in their Catechisms and is it not the same blood that cleanseth which nourishes How are you confused in this and put to your shifts I have heard talk of Papists and Jesuites were witty men but I see it is at an end and that which nourishes the immortall soule is not the mortal creatures ye are deceived in thinking so and the Protestants both that which nourishes the soul is Christ the power of God who is the Bishop of it the life the truth the power of God which is the immortall souls food and not the bread that will perish and things that will perish which those looked after that followed Christ for a time which was in the perishing minde which laboured after the perishing things and laboured not for the bread which comes downe from above which indures to eternall life which who eats of it hungers no more And so that is the Devils doctrine and the apostates which is got up since the days of the Apostles which tels people after they have consecrated the bread and wine it is the body and blood of Christ which Christ said bread would perish for his flesh saw no corruption Nor his body would not perish nor his blood that cleanseth from the dead works through which blood they overcome death and the word and power gives every creature its being without the consecration but that which nourishes the immortal soul is the mortal and man lives not by bread alone but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God and this is Christs doctrine and the others is the Devils and apostates out of the life and power of Christ that saith men must live by bread alone Pr. Christ useth the Priest in the hands of a workman to make the Sacrament which is the body and bloud of Christ he saith that the formes of bread and wine which will corrupt cannot take away sin And after consecration it is not bread and wine but the very body and bloud of Christ Answ. In this you have shewed your confusion and unestablished state was it the very body and bloud of Christ that made the Corinthians drunk and in this thou hast confounded thy self in saying that the formes of bread and wine which is the very body and bloud of Christ will corrupt after consecration then the Ministers work in this thou hast spoyled who are the consecraters for the body and bloud of Christ will not corrupt nor perish which bread and wine will but that which gives bread and wine their being will never corrupt for bread and wine is a thing that is seen and though the Apostle said what he had received of the Lord that did he deliver to the Corinthians how that the same night the Lord Jesus was betrayed he took the cup and the bread when he had given thanks saying as oft as they did eate that bread and drink that cup they shewed the Lords death till he came and the Apostles delivered this to the Corinthians then in the second Epistle he brings them off from the things that are seen to the things vvhich are not seene which were eternal for bread and wine were things seen and temporal and bids them prove and examin themselves whether or no Christ was come know you not your own selves how that Jesus Christ is in you except you be reprobates and he is the living bread that came down from above who gives life unto the world and he that eates of this bread lives and abides for ever And as for thy word Sacrament we do not find that word expressed in Scripture nor where the Apostles spoke by Mary as you do who adore your own words that are Apostatized from the life them that witness Christ the substance in them they see the end of all things is come Christ Jesus him by whom all things was made who is the end of all things him is possest Such are not reprobates but reprobates and Judas may stick in the outward things as the Jewes did whose table was a trap and eyes blinded as you do who are inwardly ravened from the
such which Peter speakes of to be in Corahs Cains Balaams way so your fruits declares and thus you are contrary to Christ and the Apostles and true Church separated from them and such as the Apostle declares against hath made up your Church Have not you been the first birth of the Devil since the dayes of the Apostles Murderers and killers about formes and traditions and Images and outward Churches and Ministers made by mens wills is not Cains fruits the vagabond from God appeared among you murderers destroyers Did the Apostles kill slay and burn had they their Inquisitions like you and do not you all wear Cains mark and Balaams mark on your foreheads and the Devils colours the murderer that is out of Truth has not his flagge been hung out among you All that denies your Religion and worshipping your Images Crosses and all your Ministers made by the will of men and Temples made with mens hands its death by fire Inquisition or Wracks and the devil is he that destroyes the creatures but the power of God destroyes him lets up the soul and brings the creature into liberty Christ saith My body I will give for the life of the World And Christ saith He is from above and he is not earthly The first man is of the earth earthly So after you have consecrated your bread and wine if you will come to an open tryall and proof that may openly bee proved and seen whether or no your bread and wine is not below after consecration and will waste and consume which Christ his flesh sees no corruption his body is the Church and is bread and wine after you have consecrated it the Church or do you call your selves the Church at Rome or do you call your selves the body of Christ do you call the very bread and wine the very body and blood of Christ after you have consecrated i● and so the very Church and then where are you the Church and have you not set bread and wine over you and you s●y Christs body was humane that 's the first Adam earthly the second is the Lord from heaven and after you have consecrated Bread and Wine if it be humane that signifies earthly that shews the creatures as they were before your consecration and so not the body of Christ and as oft as you do eat this bread and drink this cup y● do shew forth the Lords death till he come That signifies that he and his body was not present for where his body is there needs no representation for it was in the night in which he was betrayed that he gave them the cup for remembrance and do you take it in the night and follow the practise of Christ and his Disciples which is in remembrance of him which is the cup of the New Testament in his blood This do as oft as ye do it in remembrance of me This was in the night Now the Apostle bid the Corinthians that the end of the world was come to examine themselves and prove their own selves that they might know their own selves how that Jesus Christ was in them except they were reprobates and if Christ was in them what need they to have bread and wine to put them in Remembrance of him Friend 1 WHo was the first Author or setter forth of all your Pictures your Crosses your Crucifixes your Images and what was their names seeing that the Apostles and Teachers and Ministers did not set forth such things in the Church but witnessed against Idols and that they might keep themselves from Idols and that they were not to look at things that were seen as in the Epistles of John and to the Corinthians And are not images pictures crucifixes crosses things that be seen And the things that are seen are temporall but the things that are not seen are eternall and is not it which set up these things that which denyed the power of God 2 How is it that you set up Tythes seeing that the Apostle witnessed against the Priest-hood that took tythes and said the Law was changed and the commandement disannulled that gave them And though Abraham gave tythes to Melchisedeck the similitude the son of God is come the end of the similitude and likenesse and who was the first beginner of them amongst you 3 Who was the first Author that gave ye the commands for the observing of dayes holy dayes Saints dayes seeing the Apopostle and the Saints which were in the true Church brought the Saints off days yea the days which God had commanded to Christ the substance and said there was not any name under heaven by which a man should be saved but his name and what they were to do they were to do in the name of Christ And when they cryed Paul Apollo or Cephas he rebuked them are not all you come under rebuke now that are crying up names days meats drinks which the Kingdom of Heaven stands not in and so has lost the power and the substance 4 Where did Christ or the Apostles command in the Scripture or the Church practiced that such things forementioned should be done or come after them shew me by Scripture Now if you say that Solomon had a Temple and there were images and an Ark and an Altar those were but figures they were not the substance and when the substance came they ceased Now what does all your dayes crosses crucifixes tythes type forth and who commanded them shew by Scripture where ever Christ or the Apostles commanded any such thing as a Crucifix as a Crosse as Tythes as a Temple as an Altar outward or to pray by Beads shew by the Scriptures where ever the true Apostles true Church or Christians practised any such things or that any such things were amongst them or said that any such things should come after them answer me by plain Scriptures 5 May not a man give all his goods away to the poor and his body to be burned and what will that profit him if he have not love yea love to enemies And how can you love them when you bring them to your Inquisitions or burn or imprison them kill or banish them Now mark are not you of that sect that the Apostle speaks of that may give all your goods away to the poor and your bodies to be burned and yet nothing not having love And what differs your love from that love that may give your goods away and bodies to be burned and yet not have true love And do not you think that you gain by that now and do inherit some righteousness for it and is not that all out of the true righteousnesse which is out of the true love Now the love of God and Christ which was in the Apostles was to love enemies Now if you love your sect and them that be of your worship and observes your customes and burn and prison and kill others that be not of your sect and judgement and observes your customes