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A60360 The predestinated thief A dialogue betwixt a rigid Calvinian preacher and a condemned malefactor. In which is not onely represented how the Calvinistical opinion occasions the perpetration of wickedness and impieties; but moreover how it doth impede and hinder, nay almost impossibilitate the reducing of a sinner to emendation and repentance. Slatius, Henry, 1585-1623. 1658 (1658) Wing S3982A; ESTC R220063 24,121 82

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power of obeying in this faln corrupted condition God requires faith of all to whom the Word is preached but will not give faith to all to whom it is revealed Pr. You seem to me to have been alwayes of this opinion Th. I was not so wedded to this opinion till such thoughts as these ran alwayes in my minde that I was really of the number of the Elect. Pr. Do not presume rashly you too confidently pronounce your self Elect when from your Childhood you have been such a rakehell and have not to this day mended your course these are but small fruits or signs of your Election Th. O good Sir you must know that all z Calv. in Instit lib. 3. c. 24. dist 10. the Elect are not called so soon as born nor all at one and the same time nay before they are congregated to the Supreme Pastor they wander in the common desert of this world in sin and are neither known to others or themselves to be elected to life till the peculiar mercy of God keep and guide them a Musc loc com de Fide c. 7. Neither is God bound to any time when or persons which to call so that 't is for no one to doubt when he shall be call'd for no sin is so great as to ●inder when heaven calls Whence it appears clear as Noon-day I am not presently to despair if I have not lived so unblameably as you would have me Pr. Yet it was your duty as the Apostle sayes by good works to make your salvation sure Th. How came you to speak so unadvisedly Sir does our Election depend on good works I 'll prove it does not and further I am perswaded that the Elect may fall b Zanch. in M●scel p. 329. into great and hainous sins as Adultery Murther nay sometimes into such errours by which sometimes partly sometimes wholly the very foundation of Salvation is turned topfie-turvy or otherwise against their Conscience to sin foully and grievously c Ruard Acron Explic. Catech. qu. 53. fol. 137. against any of the Commandments of God but all these things hinder little or nothing For d Wilhel Teeling in dial de statu hom Christi pag. 44. God will not damn any of the elect though they sin because the foundation of their safety lies in his eternal act of their election neither can a thousand nay the sins of the whole world nor all the Devils in Hell destroy one of the Elect Our sins may harden our hearts weaken our faith but cannot quite destroy it nor extinguish the Spirit of God utterly So that God damns none for their sins whom he has adopted in Christ Pr. What then you did not fear to be damned Th. No not I a jot for who are e Toss de Praedest cap. 3. Zanch. de nat Dei l. 7. q. 1. predestinated cannot be cast off for ever because once elected by the immutable Decree of God and again because whom Christ loves he loves unto the end Pr. But you ought to have turn'd and conform'd your self according to the will of God that you might have obtained the remission of your sins Th. For any thing I understand you have even the same conception of f Smout in Script consent fol. 12. the New Covenant as of the Old which was placed in the condition of Works as if we would constantly believe and do this and thus God would again do for us so and so c. which rule is diametrically opposite to the New Covenant conditions g Id. fol. 31. God makes a New Covenant with us and promises us not onely when we are without any but have strayed a long way from the condition whilst we wallow in the midst of sin h Id. fol. 46. Behold God forgiveth sin before he renews the heart and does both these before we have done any good nay whilst we are in our sins and do profane his Name Hence 't is abundantly evident i Gesel probat fol. 33. that God does prosecute all his Elect with a singular eternal gracious and saving love before they believe or repent For truly as the Synod of Dort k Acta Synodi cap. 1. Art 9. sayes Election is made not from any foreseen faith obedience fanctity or any other good quality or disposition as a pre-requisite cause or condition in us that we should be thus elected but are chosen to faith and obedience so that Election is the cause from whence all good works flow and from hence faith holiness all spiritual gifts flow and at last life it self as the fruit and effect meerly of it Pr. Whither do you intend to protract this Dispute hold your tongue and leave this disputing think with your self how far the night is spent and how nigh your life is to its period and be more sollicitous how you may be saved when you shall depart this life Consider those words of St. Paul 1 Cor. 6.10 Nor thieves nor drunkards shall inherit the Kingdom of God yet you must possess it if you be saved Th. Do you think you can shew your self a Physician to my sinful sick Soul Pr. Believe in Jesus Christ mourn for your sins beg a blessed change from God an happy hour wherein he may give you the remission of your sins and life everlasting Th. What must I believe that I may believe in Christ aright Pr. You must believe that Jesus Christ by his Death and Passion merited the remission of sins and life eternal and that for you particularly This is commanded you in the Gospel Th. Whatsoever the Gospel says is it true or false Pr. 'T is truth it self Th. Has Christ by his Death and Passion purchased these things for all Pr. l Pisc con Schafm disp de Praedest pag. 12. Although humane Reason and in good men has thence taken scandal and some of the Evangelical Doctors much rage rail when they hear any teach that God would not have all men to be saved but onely such and such and Christ is not dead for all but we firmly believe on either side and that from Scripture it self so that I may assert in plain words m Perk. de Spir. desert p. 3. God has constituted no Mediator for the reprobated for Christ is the Redeemer of the Elect onely and not of others Th. Is not Christ then dead and made n Polan Explic. quar in Relig. diff p. 154. q. 4. an offering for Reprobates Pr. I pray Sir if you be one of Christs elect Sheep why do you thus patronize the Reprobate and Damned Reade the judgement of the Synod of o Synod of Dort c. 2. art 8. Dort that will teach you that this was the free counsel gracious intention of God the Father of the precious death of his onely Son to effect grace and Salvation in all the Elect giving them alone justifying faith and by it infallibly bringing them to heaven that is God
and power which is to the elect irresistible for Renovation is a second Creation which does not depend upon the will of man but sole power of God i Donteclock in respons ad ignoti scriptum litera L. 4. M. 1. k Martyr L.C. de lib. arbit p. 978. For as those which are dead cannot raise themselves againe so I can by no means raise my self from the death of sin how much soever the word of God sound against threatning to reward this Spirituall death with an eternall unless God himself be pleased to give a new Spirit unto me wherefore I did wisely even to tarry l Bucer in Rom. 9. till God should come in upon me and by his word and instructions turn my heart for when I should be compeld I could not chuse but follow On the other side I concluded with my self thus If I am reprobated all that lies in me either to do or suffer will be vaine my doings can do me no good may be they may do me harm m Donteclock against Castel p. 171. nay though I should perform all the good deeds n Marl. on Ioh. 15. v. 2. that all the Saints ever did or shall do I could not be saved the decree of God stands so firme and sure Pr. You should have observed the outward and inward call of God both by his word and spirit Th. Could I have behaved my self any otherwise then I have done o Gesel in probat fol. 38. for who are not outwardly by the Gospel and inwardly by the Spirit called according to the good purpose of God cannot obey this call neither can they believe or p Id. 38. convert themselves and God q Smout in pref Concopd fol. 9. draws those that believe so that they will not cannot neither can will to resist his will Whom God enlightens and whose hearts he moves are compelled and cannot but follow when 't is God that calls To illustrate this by an example r Anthon. Thys in doct ord reform Eccles s Contra-Remonst in Colloq Hag. as none can hinder his own production or resurrection so none can hinder the Free-grace of God working in Jesus Christ for our regeneration and resurrection to a spirituall life from these you abundantly see if I had bin thus handled and called of God I could have done no other then followed and obeyed his will Pr. Did you then never heare God thus calling nor find your self ever moved Th. Yes I have often heard yet you very well know that as God has an internall and externall will so there is an internall and externall call t Pareus in Rom. 9. but if this externall call shall be joyned with the internall 't is to be an effect and an ineffable figne of his predestination and this is what the Synod of Dort have not of late so clearly demonstrated u Synod of Dort cap. 1. Art 6. Some have faith bestowed on them by God and others have not proceeds from the eternall decree of God according to which decree he softens the hard hearts and bends their wils to believe but the non-elect the elect by his just judgement he leaves to the hardness and malice of their own hearts Therefore Sir you seeme to be easilier bafled then one of your Coat should be bawling at me so often that I did not hearken to the call and invitation of God and fishing out of me whether I had not heard this call or no and was moved at it x Synod of Dort cap. 3 4. Art 10. For that some are called and converted by the Ministry of the Gospell is not to be ascribed to man as if by his own free will from others instructions he could discern and follow sufficient grace and works for his conversion which that proud Heresie of Pelagius affirms but to God who as he hath from all eternity chosen his in Christ so in time he doth effectually call them bestows on them Faith and Repentance and translates them out of darkness into the Kingdom of his dear Son nay y Ibid. Art 12. God creates this new creation in us without us by such a virtue which is not inferior to that of the great Creation or Resurrection So that all those in whose hearts God has thus strangely and wonderfully wrought are infallibly regenerated and do actually believe Why do you accuse me that I am not converted when to speak the truth I do not see how 't is possible that one who is alwayes tottering and doubting whether he be elected or not can conform himself to the eternal Call this lett being left too over and above that this internal Call doth not concur Pr. Have you then all this while judged your self to be a reprobate O sad to relate Th. That I have and that not without a cause too because God of his own good pleasure has reprobated the greatest part z Smout Concord fol. 109. of Mankinde and reprobates a Trigl Def. fol. 83. are not damn'd for their sins neither are fore-seen sins the cause why any should be reprobated so that 't is necessary we confess b Gesel probat f. 216 217. evil works and incredulity not to be the cause of reprobation So that God out of his will and counsel hath ordained That some should be born as infallibly heirs of Hell as of their Parents that by their destruction his Name might be glorified Pondering these things in my minde I have oftentimes silently thought O good God! hast thou also reprobated me with the greatest part of Mankinde I did easily believe it because thou hast so ordered our reprobation that though it be our misery it turns to thy glory Pr. This is very true that God c Anthon. Thys ad Summam Baron p. 20. from eternity without any respect to sin by his pure absolute Decree which no man can understand has rejected the greatest part of Mankinde and created them to destruction or bequeathed them to destruction in Adams fall from an immutable and inevitable Decree which he decreed with and in himself nay if any one d Id. pag. shall dare to say God hath not decreed to hate man as man his creature but as a sinner he contradicts the Apostle and so consequently won't take the Authority of God himself yet for all this you are not by and by without any more ado to conclude your self a Reprobate Th. You say well but how is it possible that a man whose faith is oppugned with so many various and strong temptations who is given to so many lusts should easily perswade himself not to be reprobated as for example if a man knowes and weighs with himself that not onely aged people but also Infants are of this number e Perk. Cat. pag. 393. so that among Infants that die f Thys in expl doct de Praedest p. 245. some are saved some damned and that before they have done
either good or evil for that decree g Perk. ut supra concerning reprobated Infants is so born and died and damned as it were all in an instant for the guilt of orignall and innate sin which they brought into the world with them and for this cause h Calv. ad calumn Neb. ad Art 13 14. many children are taken out of this world and God as it were snatches the tender Infant from its mothers breast and throwes it headlong into eternall death but what is more God does not onely deal so with the children of Jews Turks Infidels but i Donteclock in pacif lit L. also with the baptised children of Christians and believers that some of them dying in their Infancy are damned Whether all the children of Believing parents dying such shall certainly and undonbtedly be saved the word of God is silent but I dare say a little more with Infants l Rippert in Colloq p. 802. which die in Christ before they are able to do good or evil 't is thus they must either be saved by grace or damned by nature as children of wrath as well as others Truly Mr. Parson this is harsh Doctrine for him who is bound to observe your Creed so that I scarce understand what to make of it Pr. But heare friend m Pareus Rom. c. 2. quest 9. if it be in the power and liberty of man to kill an Oxe or a Sheep for his use to hunt an Hare or Partridge to death for his pleasure much more does it lye in the will and freedom of the Creator without any injustice to reject or desert his creature for his own glory nay 't is a thousand times equaller that all the creatures both in heaven and earth should by their generall and eternall destruction demonstrate the divine glory and majestie then that the death of one single Fly or Gnat should go for the demonstrating of the glory of all the men in the world And this in God is not to be spoken against but prayed against and the elect cannot but give God thanks that he has condemned the wicked although he did decree them to it because he reprobated them for their good and to testifie how great his love was towards them nay the very damned have not whereof to complain but rather to give thanks for though they be fitted to destruction God fitted them not to it in vain but for many special ends and principally his own glory Th. And for this very cause n Gomar disp de Praedest pag. 105 106. I have often thought we reprobates ought to be so much the quieter for if private and peculiar good were onely to be looked after it were better not to live at all than to live a little or be a while a dying till we plunge into eternal death yet for a publick and universal good in this world the contrary to wit Damnation is better that the particular may serve for the good of the whole and the Creature make way for the glory of its Creator Therefore although in the middle of Summer my nostrils should be frozen up close yet nevertheless I might be in a possibility of smelling that it would be though we be cast into hell by God tormented yet we shall be forced to thank him that he has honoured us his Creatures with so divine a service because the o Gomar disp de Praedest pag. 105 106. dignity of the chief glory of God and of the elect is so great an advantage that the Elect by an absolute inward propensity actuated by the Spirit of God would wish if it were possible though by their own proper damnation and destruction the salvation of reprobated Jews though unbelieving and obstinate So that this same ran often in my minde how exceedingly happy shall even we the reprobated be Pr. You seem to me to have used all the industry and weighed all the Arguments that are or can be said or done about this Argument of Reprobation yet it behoved you onely to have led your life by that Word and Doctrine by which he call'd you Th. I do not deny truly but that this same Reprobation hath a long time had deep impression in me and being often troubled with it satisfied my self thus The reprobated cannot at all obey God nor believe nor convert nor justifie nor save p Musc L C. de elect c. 10. themselves though God himself should call them and therefore are not converted because God will not have it so q Trig. D●f fol. 156. Calv. in Ezek. 18. 23. nay God does offer his grace both in his Word and Sacraments to some Reprobates within the pale of the Church not to that end r Anthon Thys in Doct. Ord. Eccles Reform p. 21. f. 216 217. that they should be saved by those means but on the contrary that they might have less excuse than others and might be more severely punished in the end Pr. All this is as true as truth it self s Calv. Instit lib. 3. c. 24. dist 12. for whom God has call'd to the ignominy of life and certainty of eternal death that they should be the instruments of his wrath and examples of his Justice he deprives of the faculty of hearing his Word and afterwards more and more blinds and hardens them that they may be brought to those ends to which he has appointed them Oftentimes also t Id. lib. 3. c. 2. dist 11. there is such a faith found in Reprobates which has a great affinity and similitude with the faith of the very Elect and experience teaches us that oftentimes they are carried with the same motion and sense that the elect are so that oftentimes they judge themselves to be such in truth and in deed and sometimes it happens u Beza in brev explic c. 7. Aphor. 6 7. that some are so lift up by the help of grace it self that they think they taste of the joyes to come and are really ingrafted into the true Church so that they mayshew others the way of life and believe judge of themselves no otherwise then that they are elected O how miserable are these men who ascend but to fall the lower and that God might cast them many stories lower into Hell Th. And truly I knew this very well and therefore so much the more avoided all Exhortations Sermons and reading of the Word and abandoned all good works lest my blindness should be greater and my damnation heavier Nay and did affirm x Donteclock adv Pacif. lit L. 1. as it is not the purpose and minde of God to save those hereafter which he does not call here so neither those Reprobates which he does call here because it does not please him to give them faith and repentance without which they cannot be saved God y Trigland Apol. fol. 135. requires worship and obedience from all men but has not decreed to give all men the