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A19505 Seuen dayes conference betweene a catholicke christian, and a catholicke Romane. Concerning some controuersies of religion. By William Cowper, B. of Galloway. Cowper, William, 1568-1619. 1613 (1613) STC 5934; ESTC S112854 58,489 262

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the Scripturs conformable to the doctrine of our teachers I was greatly therin confirmed for these are the two great proppes of our faith which Vincentius giues vs against all heresie cap 2. R. You haue reason for you for if your Doctrine be so warranted both by diuine authority of God in his word and humane testimony of the best Doctors of the ancient Church they are to bee iudged most vnworthy that make contradiction to you C. Well that I may bee as good as my word there they are I leaue them with you that you may reade them at your owne leasure R. I thanke you for them and because I am not to tarrie in this Towne let met haue I pray you a copie of them with mee that I may reade thē at leasure C. So long as you are in the Towne you may bee doing otherwise if occasion serue you not as soone as I can prouide a copy of them for my self I shall send you this to any place you please to appoint R. Let it bee so and I shall God willing put you in mind of it THE SIXTH DAYES CONFERENCE Wherein an other Question commonly obiected by the Aduersaries is answered Seeing you cannot denie that your fathers were Papists what thinke you are they all damned or not And if they be not damned why may not we be of their Religion R. WElcome yet Sir I see you are not wearie to take paines with me C. No in truth it is no paine but pleasure vnto me if by any meanes I may be an instrument to doe you good R. I thanke you for it Now what say you to our Question Are all our fathers damned Or ●f not may it not serue vs to be ●f their Religion C. That is but a subtile que●tion wher●by Iesuites drawe ●imple people to a liking of Papistrie because forso●t● some ●f their f●thers liued and dyed in it as they alledge R. And why thinke you it not a good reason C. Not indeede ● for some times I find GOD forbids his people to be as their fathers were where our Fath●rs haue forsaken the Religion of the f●rst Fathers wee should not follow them R. That was sufficiently cleared in our first Conference C. It was so yet you force mee to remember it But now before I come to the point I will tell you a prettie Storie I haue read concerning this matter R. Let mee heare it I pray you C. I read that a certaine Duke of Frisland named Raboldus about the yeare of our LORD nine hundreth being perswaded as hee pretended to embrace Christianitie as he went to bee baptized and had the one of his feet in the water he demanded of the Bishops If all his Forefathers were damned the Bishops answered more rashly then wisely they were all damned whereupon the Duke pulled backe his feete againe saying Then I will also bee damned with them Thinke you this a good answere R. No indeede I thinke it a mad answere C. Yet the same is the poyson wherewith your Iesuits subtilly infect the hearts of simple ones that they should rather choose to be damned with their Fathers th●n saued without them R. But will you say to vs as these Bishops said to him That all our Fathers are damned C. Nay that wil I not iudgement of election and reprobation pertaines to the Lord their persons I leaue but the doctrine of Papistrie I am sure is deadly and bringes damnation to the soules of men R. Then you will not giue iudgment of their persons C. No indeed for as to their persons I know many this day are so called who know not the Doctrine of Papistrie and as to them who haue liued before vs howsoeuer in their life they professed Papistrie yet in their death they were forced to seeke comfort in our Religion R. That is strange that you will say many of our Fathers died in your Religion C. Yet it is true as I will let you see by a little forme of visitation of the sicke vsed at that time when Antichrists darkenesse was greatest to wit in the eleuenth hundred yeare for so the Church-men spake to the sicke Fateris te ●am malè vixisse vt meritis tuis pae●● aeterna ●ebe●tur Doest thou not acknowledge that thine euill life d●serues eternall d●ath The diseased answered E●iam ye● The other still inquired Paenitet ●e horum Repentest thou th●se sinnes The other answered Etiam yea I doe still he inquire● Credis quò● pro te mortu ●s ●●t dominus Iesus Beleeuest thou that Iesus died for thee and that thou canst not bee saued but by his death The other answeres I doe so indeede Then concludes the Preacher this way Age ergò dum in te superest anima in h●c solâ mortetotam fuluciam tuam constitue in nullâ aliâ re habe as fiduciam huic mortito●um te committe hac solate totum contegne hâc morte tetotum inuolue Et si dominus deus voluerit te iudicare dic Domine mortem domini nostri obijcio inter me tuum iudicium aliter tecum non contendo Goe to then so long as thy Soule is in thee in this onely death of Christ place thou thine whole confidence tr●st not in any other thing commit thy selfe altogether vnto this death with this death only couer thy selfe in it onely inuolue thy selfe And if the Lord God will iudge thee then say to him O Lord I haue nothing to lay betw●ene me and thy iudgement but the death of the Lord Iesus otherwise I contend not with thee See you not here first that they warned their people to prouide for themselues so long as they are in the body and feede them not with a vaine hope as the Romish Doctors doe their people For the present they send them to a place they call Purgatorie but promise to bring them againe out of it they first suffering paines there and either themselues or their frinds making due payment for them on Earth R. In good sooth that is a comfortlesse and I may say a cousning kind of doctrine C. Wel see you not againe a renouncing of all other merites and of all satisfactions to bee made by suffering the paines of Purgatorie or otherwise And thirdly see you not that the Pastor teacheth and the people professeth a sure confidence no dubitation in Christs bloud onely R. I see that clearely C. Then I say these men might well die w●th the name of Papist● but they died not with the doctrine of Papists for they renounced all me●ites both their own and any others and onely rested vpon the meri●es of Christ. R. But what will you say of them who haue died with all the opinions of Papistrie C. I will answere that as Cyprian answered the like when it was demanded of him An damnat● sunt maiores nostri qui hun● vel illum articulum non intellexerunt Were all our Fathers damned who vnderstood not this or that Article of faith he answered