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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18690	A mirrour of Popish subtilties discouering sundry wretched and miserable euasions and shifts which a secret cauilling Papist in the behalfe of one Paul Spence priest, yet liuing and lately prisoner in the castle of Worcester, hath gathered out of Sanders, Bellarmine, and others, for the auoyding and discrediting of sundrie allegations of scriptures and fathers, against the doctrine of the Church of Rome, concerning sacraments, the sacrifice of the masse, transubstantiation, iustification, &c. Written by Rob. Abbot, minister of the word of God in the citie of Worcester. The contents see in the next page after the preface to the reader. Perused and allowed.	Abbot, Robert, 1560-1618.	1594 (1594)	STC 52; ESTC S108344	245,389	257

b clem Apost consti li. 6. ca. 23. Euseb de vita constant lib. 4. cap. 45. Concil Constanti 6. ca. 32. calling the one blouddy as being properly a sacrifice the other vnblouddy as being so but vnproperly and onely in a mystery as the place of Clemens whosoeuer he was doth plainely shew affirming it to bée celebrated by signes of the body and bloud of Christ not by the body it selfe and that of c Oecumen in Heb. 5. Oecumenius out of Photius that Christ first offered an vnblouddy sacrifice and then afterward hee offered his owne body also manifestly declaring that the vnblouddy sucrifice was not indéede the offering of y● body of Christ yet to offer the blouddy sacrifice of Christes death in an vnblouddy sacrifice of his body to apply vnto vs the vertue of his bloudy sacrifice is a mishapen monster lately begotten in the time of Antichristian desolation and such as the ancient fathers neuer dreamed of And wisely did he deale to tel me that he could shew much and yet to shew nothing at all Now he telleth me againe here that which for enlarging his answere he hath so often idlely and vainely repeated that they are not of opinion that Christ suffereth or is slaine in their sacrifice which he saieth is an imagination fit for my merry gentleman the Athenian But surely it will fall to Doctor Allen to be that merry gentleman For he in great sadnesse telleth vs concerning Christ in their sacrifice That hee is d Allen. de Eucharist sacrif cap 1● Verè mactatur verely slaine and offered in sacrifice and I hope the Answ wil take Doct. Allen for a Catholicke though he say that neuer any Catholicke did so write But let that passe as an vnsauery dreame of a drousie Cardinall the Answ will not say so Yet he may as well proue by the sayings of the Fathers ● that Christ dieth and is crucified again in this mysterie as that he is verily sacrificed séeing that as I shewed him they no lesse plainly affirme the one then they do the other But the letter is not to be forced in the one What reason then so much to force it in the other Nay because they teach vs that the passion death of Christ is the sacrifice which we offer and the passion of Christ is here to be vnderstood not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mysterie as S. Austen speaketh it foloweth that the sacrifice which we offer as touching y● present act must be vnderstood a sacrifice not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mysterie But here the Answ would saine lift me vp before I am downe telling me first that mine argument is against art because the forme is negatiue in the third figure But the man without doubt hath forgotten his Logicke For what proposition of all these is negatiue I maruell Mary this forsooth The passion of Christ is here to be vnderstood not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mysterie and so the conclusion But if I should say to him that Campian and his fellows were executed not for religion but for treason would he not take it that I spake verie affirmatiuely that they were executed only for treason And why then could he not cōceiue that when I said The passion of Christ is to be vnderstood as touching the Sacrament not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mysterie I affirmed this that the passion of Christ is to be vnderstood only in a signifying mysterie and the conclusion answerable thereto His Logicke rule of the negatiue particle Post copulam would haue taught him to vnderstand both the propositions affirmatiuely as I set them downe and then the forme shal not be negatiue in the third figure But this being made good the Maior or first proposition he saith is false if I meane it as I must that the passion of Christ is the whole sacrifice For there is as he saith beside the memory of the passion of Christ a reall offering also of the body of Christ The Maior is the saying of Cyprian as I alleaged e Cypri lib. 2. Epist 3. The passion of Christ is the sacrifice which we offer Yea but he saith not that it is the whole sacrifice saith the Answerer He saith not so indéed but yet his words import no lesse to any mans vnderstanding that is not froward But if that be not hence assured yet was it otherwise manifestly inough proued by the words of Prosper though the Answ would not see it because it should haue preuented him of his answere f Prosper in Psal 12● What propitiation is there saith Prosper but sacrifice and what sacrifice but the killing or death of that lambe which hath taken away the sinnes of the world Now if there be no sacrifice of propitiation but only the death of the lamb● that is the passiō of Christ as Prosper teacheth then the passion of Christ is the whole sacrifice that we offer Let him adde hereunto the words of S. Austen who telleth vs thus g August con aduer leg proph l. 1. c. 18 For the singular and only true sacrifice the blood of Christ was shed for vs. The bloodshedding of Christ then is the only true sacrifice therefore there is no other true sacrifice of Christ himselfe The bloodshedding of Christ is only represented in the Sacrament by a signifying mysterie and not performed in the truth of the thing Therefore the whole sacrifice that we offer is a representation only of a sacrifice by a signifying mysterie not any reall sacrificing in the truth of the thing Let Iustinus Martyr further iustifie this matter who auoucheth plainly h Iushin Martyr dial cum Tryph. That praiers thanksgiuing are the only sacrifices that Christians haue receiued to make that by their drie and moist nourishment that is the Sacrament or elements of bread and wine they may be admonished of those things which God the sonne of God hath suffered for them The Sacrament then of drie and moyst nourishment that is the Lordes supper contemeth no other sacrifices but praiers and thanksgiuings neither haue Christians receiued to vse therein any other sacrifice as Iustinus Martyr expresly defineth Then it followeth that Christians haue not receiued that which Papists teach to make any reall offering of the body of Christ but only an Eucharistical offering of the passiō of Christ in calling to minde by the vse of this holy Sacrament what God the sonne of God hath suffered for them Basil also witnesseth the same writing vpon these words of the prophesie of Esay i Basil in Esay cap. 1. What haue I to do with the multitude of your offerings c. God saith he reiecting multitude of offerings requireth of vs one namely that euery man reconcile and offer himselfe to God yeelding himselfe by reasonable seruice a liuing sacrifice offering to God the sacrifice of praise For the

conteined in the Roomish sacrifice wherby they haue made a mockery of the sonne of God and troden vnder their féete as a vile and base thing the sacred blood of Christ whereby we were redéemed But séeing that the applying of Christs death consisteth not in sacrificing with what reason do these men teach a sacrifice to apply the death of Christ vnto vs Why could they not as well without any new sacrifice make the priestes Memento and his intention a meanes to apply Christes death vnto vs as giue him power to sacrifice Christ againe and to apply that sacrifice to whom he will and by that to apply the other sacrifice of his death And what if the priest neuer so much as thinke vpon Christs death in his Masse but mumble it vp without consideration thereof how shall we thinke that he doth apply the death of Christ Last of all why may they not with as good reason say that Christ must be borne againe to apply vnto vs the benefit of his birth that he must suffer die and rise againe to apply vnto vs the vertue of his passion death and resurrection as that he must be sacrificed againe to apply vnto vs the benefit of his former sacrifice The former are absurd the Answ will say but by no reason which shall not also proue the absurditie of the latter The truth of applying as the verie word sheweth consisteth in offering and giuing of Christ vnto vs and our receiuing of him This is set foorth in the Sacrament by words of application Take ye eate ye and againe Drinke ye all of this where the bodie of Christ crucified and his blood shed for the forgiuenesse of our sinnes are by the outward elements as by seales and pledges proposed vnto vs and we willed to accept and receiue the same Which we do by true and liuely faith through the working of the holy Ghost and so are made partakers of the benefits of his death and passion to iustification and euerlasting life And this is the only meanes of application which the scripture teacheth briefly set downe by Saint Paul Rom. 3. c Rom. 3. 25. Him hath God set foorth to be an attonement not by continual offring him in sacrifice but by faith in his blood by faith I say apprehending and laying hold on him both in the hearing of the word and receiuing of the Sacraments Herein is our receiuing of Christ as S. Iohn sheweth expounding d Ioh 1. 12. receiuing by beleeuing so many as receiued him that is so many as beleeued in his name Now the papists ouerthwarting the ordinance of Iesus Christ make litle or no regard of Take ye eate ye being the two meanes of application appointed by Christ and practised by the primitiue Church but tell vs of a continuall sacrificing of Christ which doth by the intention of the priest for the very worke wrought obteine grace and apply vnto vs forgiuenesse of sinnes But in this point beside their manifest departing from the ordinance of God they again commit high treason against God in that they aduance so many other their abhominable and hatefull deuises to ride in the same chariot with the sacrifice of the body and blood of Iesus Christ For all the filth and rifraffe of the church of Rome whereby they wickedly teach men to séeke forgiuenesse of sinnes is shadowed and coloured with this conceit of applying vnto vs the death of Christ The sufferings of Saintes and Martyrs are e Rhe. Annot. Col. 1. 24. satisfactions for our sinnes they say But how Marry forsooth they take this vertue and force from Christs death and as a particular medicine apply vnto vs the generall medicine of his passion Their crossings their f Rhe. Annot. Mat. 10. 12. 1. Tim. ●5 Summe of religion taken out of Bristow and the order of confession Bishops blessings their holy water their Popes indulgences pardons their shauen crowns their munkish orders their whippings their shrifts their pilgrimages and offerings to idols their mumbling on their beades their Agnus Deis their kissing the pax and the remnant of this absurd rabble are very helpfull to the forgiuenesse of sinnes because as the Masse doth so do all these apply vnto vs the death of Christ Thus they haue multiplied their deuises as the starres and filled the world with their e●chauntments and sorceries of other sacrifices merits and satisfactions of their owne to giue effect and working to the sacrifice merit and satisfaction of Iesus Christ And these bastard and misbegotten trumperies because they are of themselues so apparantly iniurious to the crosse of Christ that the diuel thought they would neuer go for sale-able ware whē they should be examined and tried except some deceitfull colour were set vpon them he hath therefore somewhat graced and countenanced with these termes of applying the death of Christ to mollifie and extenuate so much as might be the horrible blasphemy that is conteined therein And yet the blinde and ignorant people were not acquainted with this shift but persuaded themselues to find merit and forgiuenesse of sinnes in the méere exercise of these spirituall fornications and whoredomes whereto they were bewitched of their blinde leaders They might with as good reason haue tolde them that to runne a mans head against a wall to weare a straight paire of shooes vpon his féete to lie naked vpō thorns to eat wormewood and gall to wash his hands before meate are meanes merits of the forgiuenesse of sins They will say these things are fond Alasse blind men that cannot sée the like folly and madnesse in those things which they themselues approue But thus they haue iustled the blood of Christ out of place and fulfilled that which S. Peter prophecied of them g 2. Pet. 2. 1. There shall be false teachers which priuily shall bring in damnable heresies euen denying the Lord that hath bought them c. And through couetousnesse with feined wordes shall they make marchandise of you c. Of such feined and whorish counterfeit words the h Rhe. Annot. 2. cor 2. 11. 1. Tim. 4. ● c●ll 1. 24. pa●sim writings of Papists are very full not sauouring at all of the holy scriptures but arising méerely of their owne deuise to cloake and couer the monstrous and filthie abhominations of the Roomish harlot P. Spence Sect. 11. VVHere we say as you cōfesse that the testimony of one Gelasius or what other Doctor may not preiudicate the whole faith of them all generally we say so indeed yea we goe further and will yeeld you that Reijcimus singulos probamus omnes all of them togither or the greatest part of them consenting are the a The church of God is built vpō the foundations of the Apostles and Prophets Ephes 2. that is vpon the old and new Testament But here both old and new Testament are iustled out of their place and the Doctors are made the mouth eyes and spirite

of Iesus Christ which he illustrateth by the storie of g Gen. 27. 15. 27. Iacob who came in the apparell of his elder brother Esau to receiue the blessing of Isaac his father For so are we presented before God to receiue the blessing of eternal life not in the ragged cloathes of that righteousnesse which is in our selues which is full of imperfection and weakenesse full of blots and staines and vnable to abide the triall of the iudgement of God but cloathed with the full and perfect obedience and righteousnesse of Iesus Christ which by the dispensation of the wisedome and mercy of God is reckoned vnto all that are Christs for theirs as effectually as if they themselues in their owne persons had performed the same Neither ought this to seeme strange vnto vs who know the like to haue befallen in the person of Iesus Christ For he knew no sinne neither was guile found in his mouth yet h 2. cor 5. 21. He was made sinne for vs he i 1. Pet. 2. 2● bare our sinnes the k Esa 53. 6. Lord laid vpon him the iniquities of vs all Could our sinnes by imputation take hold vpon Christ to put him to death to inflict vpon the curse pronounced by the law shall not his righteousnesse by imputatiō stand auaileable for vs to yéelde vnto vs the blessing of euerlasting life Shall our sins be stronger against him then his righteousnesse is for vs God forbid Nay S. Austen truly saith l August Psal 21. He made our sinnes his sinnes that hee might make his righteousnesse our righteousnesse In humane things we sée and know that the suerties paiment is imputed vnto the debter for his discharge as if he himselfe had paide the debt Christ hath taken vpon him to be our suertie he hath made ful paiment of our debt both in bearing the punishment of sinne and performing the fulnesse of all righteousnesse What should let that his paiment also should not be imputed vnto vs God offering this fauour vnto man and man by grace accepting the offer of God Verily Christian religion hath taught vs thus to estéeme that whatsoeuer Christ did or suffered he did all for vs. For what néed had he to be made vnder the law so to worke to deserue for himselfe who from the beginning was the Lord of glorie to whom by right and inheritance did belong the kingdome of life and peace Therefore as his obedience in dying is imputed vnto vs to iustification from sinne so his obedience in working is imputed vnto vs to iustification vnto eternall life And therefore the scripture as it calleth him the m 1. Ioh. 2. 2 propitiation for our sinnes so it calleth him likewise n Iere. 23 6 the Lord our righteousnesse To which purpose the Apostle S. Paul saith that o 1. cor 1 30 he is made vnto vs of God wisdome righteousnes sanctificatiō and redemption Wisedome to couer our errour ignorance weaknesse of faith Righteousnesse in whose obedience we stand here iust and righteous before God and are accepted for his children being as yet sinners vnrighteous in our selues sanctification to purge vs from sinne and to restore in vs the image of God by litle and litle p 2. cor 3. 18 from glorie to glorie q Psa 84. 7 from strength to strength in this life till we ●e fully perfected at the resurrection of the dead Redemption in whom only we haue full and perfect attonement and satisfaction for all our sinnes by meanes whereof there is r Rom. 8. 1 no codemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus No lesse plainly saith he againe to the same effect ſ 2. Cor. 5. 21 Him which knew no sinne God made sinne for vs that we might be made the righteousnesse of God in him Wherof S. Austen saith thus t August Enchiri ad Laurent cap. 41 He then was made sinne that we might be righteousnesse not our owne righteousnesse but the righteousnesse of God neither in our selues but in him euen as he in the similitude of sinfull flesh wherein he was crucified shewed foorth sinne not his owne sinne but our sinne neither being in him but in vs. Where first the Apostle and then out of the Apostle S. Austen giueth to vnderstand that as Christ was punished as a sinner for those sinnes which were not in him but in vs so we are accepted for righteous before God by that righteousnesse not which is in our selues but in him Yet it is so in him as that it is imputed vnto vs as being performed for vs and in our name and therefore by faith in Christ it is made ours euen as Christ himself is wholly ours By reason wherof it is called u Rom. 3. 21 22. The righteousnesse of God through the faith of Iesus Christ standing and being without the law and the refore by faith only Therfore is faith said to be reputed vnto vs for righteousnesse as in those words of S. Paul w Rom. ● 5 Oecum ibid. To him that worketh not that is as Oecumenius expoundeth it of Photius To him that hath no confidence by workes but beleeueth in him that iustifieth the vngodly his faith is imputed or counted for righteousnesse Not workes then but faith is counted for righteousnesse to the beléeuing man and as the Apostle x Gal. 2. 16 elsewhere saith We haue beleeued in Christ that we might be iustified by the faith of Christ and not by the workes of the law because that by the workes of the lawe no flesh shall be iustified Either there is not at all any iustification of man before God and so Christ shall haue died in vaine or this is his only iustificatiō which I haue described because as partly hath bene shewed and shall be shewed further there is no righteousnesse extant in man in this life whereby he can stand iust and blamelesse before the iudgement seat of God But that exclusion of works which I haue mentioned out of the Apostle the Answ restraineth onely to workes done by fréewill and by the law without the faith and grace of Christ A vaine exception the falshood whereof he that séeth not is altogither blinde albeit it is the onely starting hole which the Rhemists vse to auoid the euidence of the text The question of iustification by the lawe was moued concerning y Rhemi Annot Act 1● 13 the conuerted gentiles as the Rhemistes confesse concerning the z Act. 15. 1. 10. brethren and Disciples as the text calleth them Of them the beleeeuing Pharisees required for iustification and saluation to a v. 1. ● be circumcised and to keepe the lawe of Moses The Apostle S. Paul handleth it concerning the Galathians which had b Gal 1. 6. 9. 3. 2 4. 27. receiued the Gospell which were baptised into Christ which had receiued the spirite which had suffered many things for the Gospell Them hauing béene for

be mercifull to the sinnes of all not only liuing but also dead And I wonder with what face you alleage S. Augustine who distinctly b But that which he telleth he learned rather out of the schoole of Plato then out of the schoole of God He elsewhere speaketh far otherwise as shall appeare telleth you of some verie good some verie bad some neither verie good no● verie bad but of a middle sort and because hee would not leaue you any thing to helpe your selfe in this ease he telleth you how the Church vseth and in what seuerall sort for all three Where as though S. Augustine were no bodie you would helpe Dul●itius reason as well as you could but that verie reason confoundeth you For if the praier of the Church had not bene to craue Gods mercie for the dead but only to giue thanks for them what needed either that question to be made by Dulcitius of that which was not or that answer to be made by S. Augustine when he might haue denied that vse but the question of the one and the answere of the other proueth the Churches c But it proueth not the lawfulnesse of the churches practise practise What need I to answere herein our bookes are infinit to whom I referre you R. Abbot 7. AS touching praier for the dead we take that for a sufficient cause to refuse it which a Epiph. haer 75. Ephiph●nius confesseth that it is not taught by the holy scripture but obserued by traditiō receiued from the Fathers without scripture What men haue said or thought good in this behalfe we take not for Canonicall but examine it by the Canonicall scriptures according to that rule which the Fathers themselues haue prescribed The scripture telleth vs that b Apoc. 14. 13. they which die in the Lord are blessed and rest from their labors and therefore they néede not the helpe of our praiers If they die not in the Lord then no praiers can stand them in stéed So that praier for the dead is a matter of no effect and consequently a vaine vsage of the name of God That which the Fathers say according to this truth of Gods word we willingly embrace as that of Hierom c Cansa 13. q. 2. cap. In praesenti In this present worlde wee know that we may be helped either by the praiers or counsels each of other But when we shall come before the tribunall seate of Christ neither Iob nor Daniel nor Noe can make request for any man but euerie one must beare his owne burthen And that of Aust●n d August in Ioh. trac 49. The rest which is giuen straightwaies after death euerie man then receiueth when he dieth if he be woorthie thereof Which worthinesse e Berna●d in dedic eccle se● 5. Bernard declareth to be dignatione dinina non dignitate nostrae by Gods vouchsafing to accept vs as woorthie not by our worthinesse in our selues For as Chrysostom saith f Chrysost in ep ad colos hom 2. No man sheweth such conuersation of life as that hee may be worthie of the kingdome of heauen but it is wholy the gift of God himselfe To which effect Hierome also saith g Hierony in Esai lib. 6. c. 14. When the day of death or of iudgement shall come all hands shall faile because there shall no worke be found worthie of the iustice of God neither shall any man liuing be found righteous in his sight Now he that is not by Gods acceptation in Christ Iesus holden worthie when he dieth he neuer shall be by S. Austens iudgement For saith he h August epist 80. Such as euerie one dieth in this day such a one shal he be iudged at that day Now then if euerie one that is thought worthie of this rest do receiue it immediatly after death and he that is not thought worthie thereof at his death shall neuer be it followeth that euery one that receiueth the same rest receiueth it immediately after death and therefore néedeth not to be furthered vnto it by the praiers or deuotions of the liuing If contrary to this they haue taught other-where a place of paine where faithfull men are deteined from that rest they 〈…〉 here i● 〈◊〉 as men ● we 〈◊〉 not but they haue found wisedome in Jesus Christ to iouer their errour But the Papists have dealt with them here is as i Gen. 9. 22. Ch●m d●●lt with his father Noe who in stéed of h●ding did rather publish and make knowne the nakednesse shame of his father For so haue they not sought to hide but to blaze abroad the imperfections and ouersightes of the auncient Fathers as k Vincent Ly●●n cont haereses Vincent 〈…〉 Lyrinensis telleth the Donatists that they did when in the very like sort 〈◊〉 the Papists they cloaked their errour with the name of Cyprian and sundry other Bishops of former times We may say now of the auncient Fathers and the Papists as the same Vincentius said of Cyprian the Donatists l Ibid. 〈◊〉 chaunge of things The autho●rs of the same opinions are iudged Catholi●ke but the followers thereof are heretikes the maisters are pardoned but the schollers or learners are condemned the writers of the bookes wherin these opinions are shall without doubt be the children of the kingdome but hell shall be the place for the mainteine●s and abettours therof We doubt not indéed but that the auncient Fathers we ●● Catholicke and godly Bishops and Pastors notwithstanding that as men they erred sometimes in their iudgements But we know the Papists to be wicked Apostates and Heretickes who wilfully and stubburnly maintaine the same errours against the plaine truth laide euidently before them out of the word of God That Aerius was condemned for an hereticke we know but we know withall that there were greater matters of heresie to condemne him for then deniall of praier or offering for the dead not only for two or thrée pretie Puritane points as the Answ speaketh but also for certaine points of Popery concerning mariage and eating of flesh as Philaster recordeth So that the Answ in condemning Aerius for such a knowne and notorious hereticke must pluck himselfe also by the nose m Basil de spir sanc ca. 2. 3. 4. Basil n Epiphan haer 75. Epiphanius and others note him also to haue bene a partaker of the heresie of Arius to haue sought further matter for defence thereof There was therefore sufficient cause for A 〈…〉 sme and Popery to condemne Aerius without any touching of him for gainsaying praier for the dead S. Austen noteth this indéed in the o August de haeres cap. 53. report of his heresie but yet giueth no such censure of those many in his time who auouched in effect the same that Aerius did that the oblations of the liuing were not auaileable for the dead whose words to that purpose I reported out of Austen to Dulcitius in my former

Lords Supper do not thereby meane that Christ is indéed and verily offered but only that his sacrifice is represented The collection that I made before and euen now noted again out of that place of S. Austen standeth firme sure to this purpose Namely that there is difference with Austen betwixt being offered in himself and being offered in a Sacrament or mysterie and that the name of offering or sacrificing when it is referred to the Sacrament is vsed not ex rebus ipsis for the truth of the thing it selfe but for the resemblance of the thing and therfore importeth not the offering of Christ in himselfe But this the Answ would not sée or take notice of because he should haue had nothing to write of this matter being therby excluded alreadie from all that he hath now said For his shift is ●o put difference betwixt Christes death and Christ himself and to say that Christ although he die no more yet is verily sacrificed in himselfe and my collection was before direct to the contrary that Christ is not now sacrificed in himselfe So that he sheweth himself a stout disputer to let the premisses go and deny the conclusion Now the necke of his sacrifice being thus broken in that it is proued that after the death of Christ there is no more offering for sinne that Christ is not now offered in himselfe but only the sacrificing of his body on the crosse celebrated by a Sacrament of remembrance which yet is called by the name of sacrifice because sacraments are vsually called by the names of those things whereof they are Sacraments and we therein call to mind and shew Christs death and offering of himselfe as if he were then presently offered yet he setting a good face vpō the matter when nothing else wil help him telleth me that these things touch him no more then the man in the Moone biddeth me to learne the state of the question better not to roue at random but to aime at the marke to put vp in my purse all those testimonies that I did alleage c. An easie and soone-made answere or rather an vnshamefast wretched shift But the yoong Crab must go as the olde Crab doth teach him and he must giue such answeres as other his forefathers haue bin wont to doe P. Spence Sect. 10. VVHerefore all the premisses considered whersoeuer all or any of your alleaged places do sound a remembrance memoriall and representation of a sacrifice and such like words take this for a full answere that they are memories and remembrances representations and if you wil figures too of the sacrifice of Christ But what sacrifice the sacrifice of his death the sacrifice of the Crosse which we do but represent for die any more he now cannot And because we doe not say that in our Masse Christ is crucified and dieth you do vs wrong so to burthen vs which in no Catholickes writing you can shew and therefore in pressing these authories against vs you touch vs no more then the man in the Moone but you wrankle two waies both in interpreting Sacrificium here in these places to be Eucharistia where it is meant of the offering the same in a sacrifice and not of it as it is absolutely a Sacrament only ●s though the Sacrament were but a remembrance figure or representation And also secondly herein you wrangle for that you would beare vs in hand the said authorities to mean the thing represented figured or recorded to be Christs bodie where they only call our sacrifice a remembrance figure and representation of Christes passion and death vpon the Crosse onely once done and now neuer more to be done or rei●erated but only to be recorded fygured and represented Learne better hereafter the state of your question and roue not at randome but aime at the marke and remember you fight not herein with vs but you skirmish with your aduersaries in the●ire with arguments fained forged and imagined of your selues Put a A patterne how to answer any thing easily and without any study vp therfore in your purse all your places of Chrysostom Ambrose The●phylact Augustine Cyprian Aug. ad Bona●acium the Glose de consecrati●●e Cypria● againe and Prosper Alexander the Pope and againe Chrysostome and H●erome and Gregorie c. For they say nothing for you but what we confesse except you thinke vs so mad to thinke that we vse to crucifie and sley Christ in our Churches sacrifice an imagination fit for your merry gentleman the Athenian We must also tell you that you ouerreach in writing that the death and passion of Christ is the whole as much to say as the only matter substance so you terme it of this mysterie Christs reall bodie is the matter substance and thing offered in our sacrifice really but his passion is with all offered but as in a Commemoration So that our sacrifice hath b Nay it hath many things more then ouer Christ or any of his Apostles taught ●wo things two things Christs bodie really and his passion in a mysterie onely and a memorie Dolosus versa●ur in generalibus I wish you to speake more distinctly We graunt with you his passion but that only represented we haue also his bodie and blood and that verily present verily offered Else all that you can infer of the aforesaid authorities we also confesse so far as gladly as you do Sauing that wheras you sa●e that it is no ma●●ell though the Fathers called this mysterie a sacrifice For they meant it was so called but was not so indeede that we yeelde not vnto For we saie the Fathers called it a sacrifice because they meant as they spake and no where denie it and we could shewe if there were any waight in your reasons to presse vs so farre where the Fathers giue reasons why it is a sacrifice because c A Roomish deuise which ther 's neuer knew the bloodie sacrifice of the Crosse and death are offered and sacrificed man vnbloodie sacrifice Ch●●st himselfe being verily offered his death only recorded with thankesgiuing and by this vnbloodie sacrifice of Christs verie bodie the vertue of that bloodie sacrifice is daily applied to the faithfull And therefore where you aske whether Christ indeed doth d Either he really suffere●h and d●eth in the Masse or else he is not really offered The Fathers speake of both alike as I shewed really suffer in the Churches sacrifice or sweat water and blood or be condemned or nailed to the Crosse they are idle phantasticall questions But to answere you we do not thinke so Be of good cheare man we do not thinke so we neuer thought said or e Doct. Allen hath written that Christ i● verily slaine in the Masse wrote so Yet we thinke and till you come neerer the marke we will still so thinke that vnbloodily but really wee sacrifice and offer the same Christs verie true bodie and blood to the whole Trinitie for

all people that once did suffer and neuer but once all the aforenamed torments But that which you infer for a conclusion is most vaine and false which is this The passiō is that we offer the passiō is offered not in the truth of the thing but in a signifying mysterie Ergo the Churches sacrifice is not verily a sacrifice but in a mysterie for besides the forme being negatiue in the third figure is against art the Maior as I said before is false if you meane the passion only For I told you we haue in our sacrifice his passion in a memorie his bodie really If you meane not passion only then the conclusion the premisses hang togither by verie loose points Briefly Christs passion is offered in a mysterie only his bodie in sacrifice verily The first your authorities prooue and we confesse the latter part no Father euer denied no not the most eldest and auncient primatiue Church and it is so true that Caluin sticked not to condemne all the Fathers sith the Apostles of Iudaisme in that verie point for f An impudent and vnshamefast vntruth See the answere establishing a verie sacrifice of the Church so impudent a thing he tooke it to be to cast a myst vppon the Fathers wordes in that point prooue the latter point the first we confesse R. Abbot 10. HEre we may sée how the poore man maketh hard shift to credit himselfe by séeming to say somewhat when indéed he saith nothing at all For first he telleth me that wheresoeuer I reade of a remembrance memoriall and representation of sacrifice I must tak● it for a full answere that thereby is meant a remembrance and representation of Christs death Not for a full but for a foolish answer say I. For to what other purpose can he imagine those words alleage● by vs but to auouch the remembrance of that one and only true sacrifice of Christs death against their defence of a continuall and oftentimes repeated sacrifice And séeing the Fathers speaking of their offering of Christ do recall and correct those termes as vnproperly spoken and put in place thereof that they rather celebrate the remembrance of his sacrifice as if he were now sacrificed indeed we conclude hereof neither can the Answ a●oyd it that they simply deny the true and reall offering of the bodie of Christ as before is the wed Secondly he saith that I wrangle in interpreting Sacrifice here in th●se places to be the Eucharist whereas it is meant of the offring of the same in a sacrifice But indéed he saith he knoweth not what For immediately before he expoundeth Sacrifice in these places to be meant of the death of Christ and how commeth it to passe now that it must be vnderstood of offering the Eucharist in a sacrifice But if his pen slipped and he put in these places meaning it of others where I say the Fathers call the Eucharist a sacrifice that which he saith is but Petitio principij and a begging of that to be yéelded for truth which I haue auowed and proued to be false The Eucharist I vnderstande to bee the celebration of the Sacrament with thankeful remembrance of the death of Christ This I say the Fathers doe often call sacrifice because the matter thereof is the sacrifice of Christes death not because Christ is therein verily sacrificed Thirdly I wrangle forsooth againe in bearing him in hand that the authorities alleaged do meane the thing represented to be Christes body whereas they vnderstand it to be Christes passion and death vpon the Crosse Where without doubt eyther the Answ wits or his honesty failed him very much For he would haue it seem that we intend not by the places of the fathers a representing of Christes passion and death but méerely of his body and yet he himselfe iustifieth the contrary straight waies after For within some fewe lines he alleageth my wordes directed to those places of the fathers that the death and passion of Christ is the whole matter and substance of this mystery To which I added also diuers more wordes to that purpose concluding that nothing is here remembred but Christes sacrificing himselfe vppon the Crosse For although we say that we represent the body and bloud of Christ whereof yet there was nothing spoken in this place yet as afterwards I tolde him we represent the body no otherwise but as broken and the bloud no otherwise but as shed for vs. Notwithstanding here though hauing not so much as a sillable whereto he may referre this spéech he telleth me that I wrangle in pretending the thing represented to be the body of Christ wheras it is his death and passion as if I excluded the representation of Christes death and passion which by his own confession I make the whole matter and purport of the Sacrament But this draffe he thought good enough wherewith to féede his corner companions and to perswade them that he had dealt very acutely and wittely in answering that that had béene saide vnto him He telleth me again that I ouer-reach in saying that the death and passion of Christ is the whole substance of this mystery Hée shoulde haue saide that I come short because I say not so much as he would haue me to say For saith he there are two thinges in our sacrifice a mysticall offering of the passion of Christ and a real offering of the body of Christ But neither scripture nor father ●uer commended to our practise any other sacrifice of Christ but only the mysticall offering of his passion Neither doe any of the authorities of the fathers so much tossed and tumbled by the Papists enforce any other as I alleaged the last time and the Answ saieth nothing to disprooue it Surely wonder it is if the matter were so cleare as these men would perswade vs that neuer any one of the fathers speaking so often of the sacrifice would once note this point expressely and distinctly that they had both a mysticall offering of the passion of Christ and a reall offering of his body besides no not when the maine drifte of their spéech pressed them so to doe if they had beléeued any such thing But they knew it not at all and therfore no maruaile that they saied nothing of it For where as the Answ telleth me that the Fathers giue reasons why it is a sacrifice indéede namely because the bloudy sacrifice of the crosse death of Christ is offered and sacrificed in a● vnbloudy sacrifice of his body he doth lewdly belie the fathers in fathering vppon them this new and Popish phrase of spéech wherewith the fathers were vtterly vnacquainted For although they sometimes call the Lordes Supper an vnblouddy sacrifice as they doe also the other a Oecumen in Heb. 13. seruice praiers of the Church to put a difference betwixt the Iewish carnal and the christian spirituall sacrifices as also betwixt the sacrifice of Christ vpon his crosse and the sacrifice of the church