prooue with witnesses But in one thing you seeme farre heere to ouer-shoot your selfe Your mates reason against vs that the pangs of Hell which went before the buriall cannot bee ment by these wordes following it You open your owne side to that blowe and put the discending into the locall Hell before his buriall also and make that argument stronger against your self then you finde it against vs. Thus you see al this great winde is ouerblowne and shakes no corne HVME his 8. Sect. HEere to let this passe your next reason is from that place of Paul But that he ascended what is it els but that he first descended into the lowermost parts of the earth Where you holde that the lowermost partes of the earth muste needes signifie the pit of Hell Which thing if it were so sure as you beare in hand I wonder that no Diuines I speake of the modester sorte did yet gather heereupon that the place of Hell were the verie center of the earth But wheras you avouche so confidentlie that ERETS TACHTITH doth signifie Hel as properlie in Hebrew as hel doth in English though I meane not to stand with you for the tongue yet pardon mee to dissent from you in this For in the places which you quote it can not in my simple vnderstanding carie that sense Your first place is They which seek my soule shall go down into the lowermost partes of the earth which cannot bee meant of Hell except these reasons deceaue mee First it might seeme a presumption to enter so farre into Gods secrets as to judge his owne priuate enemies Next it should seeme not to stand with the affections of a godlie heart to ascribe that place to his enemies out of the horrour wherof there is no redemption For the children of God do rather pray for their enemies desire their amendement This place may be wel construed of the graue For it is an argument vsed by the Prophete to lay the pride of them that sought his soule and to solace himself recording that their hatred should haue an end wheÌ„ the graue should swallow them The wordes â—ollowing confirme this sense That they shall fal vpon the edge of the sword which cannot be vnderstood but of temporall death HIL his reply INdeed I brought this place Eph. 4. 9. to proue that Christ descended into Hell And whereas you charge me with immodesty for so alleadging of it I must needs charge you with two vntruths in answering this allegatioÌ„ The one is y â— I called it the pit of Hel which phraise I neuer vsed The other is you haue impudently aâ—ouched that none of the modester sorte of diuines haue euer alleadged this place to proue the descending of Christ into â—el 223 For many and those both learned and modest haue alledged this place to this purpose Athanasius interpreting this Epistle and texte thus writeth Into what place did he desceÌ„d Into hel truly which he calleth according to the coÌ„mon opinioÌ„ of men the lowest parts of the earth Ambrose on this place saith thus This Christ therefore comming downe from heauen into the earth was borne a man afterward he dyed and descended into hell from whence rising the third day he went vp to heauen before all mortall men that hee might shewe deth to be vanquished to every creature Chrisostome on this place saith Hee went to those partes of the earth then the which nothing is lower and from thence lies ascended into heauen then the which nothing is higher The like hath Augustine li. de Trin. chap. 19. Ieromâ— on this text thus noteth That Hell is vnder the earth noe man doubteth for he that descended in soule into hell asceÌ„ded both body soule into heaueÌ„ Mollerus a learned Minister of Germany on the sixtene Psalme saith that the descending into hel is plainly proued out of the Ephesians the fourth chapter Musculus on the 68. Psalm thus writeth This God which was in Christ reconciling the world vnto himself first descended into the lowest partes of the earth then he lead captuitie captiue and not only we ar deliuered from the captuity of Satan sinne death and damnation but also Christ triumphing ouer them aâ—tirants hath ascended aboue all heauens to fulfill all things Hemingius on the 2. Chapter to the Colossians thus also teacheth As by his deathe he conflicted with the enemye one the crosse so by his glorious descending into hell resâ—â—â—â—ection and Ascention he triumphed as it is Ephe 4. Leauing his cros lift vp as a monumeÌ„t of his victory To conclud Alesius a very learned preacher of Scotland on the 19. chapter of Iohn affirmeth that the 1. Pet. 3. Eph. 4. do manifestly proue the descending of Christ into hell if Athanasius Chrysostome Ambrose Augustine and Ierome of the old fathers and Mollerus Musculus Hemingius and Alesius of the new writers be all immodest diuines then haue you truelye saide but if in the iudgement of the learned all these were most reuerend men then most shameles are you to accuse them of the want of modesty More ouer where you say no diuine dare to dispute where hell is it is true in some sort for no diuine can 252 circumscribe the place of hel which is infinite nor yet of heauen only the word of God affirmeth that heauen is aboue Gal. 4. 26. And hell is beneath Prouerbs 15. 24. Therefore the lowest parts of the earth may well be taken for hel Then you goe further say that ERETS TAGHTITH doth not signifie hell Psal 63. and for this you bring two reasons the one is y â— it were a presumption in the Prophet to iudge his enemies 2. that it standeth not with the affections of a godly minde to assign hell to his enemies but to pray for them to your first reason this I answer In the Psalm 9. 18. Dauid useth the like speeche The wicked shall be turned into hell and all the people that forget God which text Caluin thus expoundeth the Hebrewe word SHEOLâ—â— which was doubtfull I haue not doubted to translate hell for though it doth not displease me that others 〈◊〉 it Sepulcher yet it is sure heer is som thing noted besides common death otherwise he should speak nothing of the reprobate but that which did generally happen to al beleuers In the hundred and â—inth Psalme also Dauid thus praieth Let Satan stand at his right hand let his prayer be turned into sinne let the wickednes of his Father be had in remembrance in the sight of the Lord and let not the sinne of his mother be done away **** Do you think this to bee spoken presâ—â—tuously Many such texts could 〈◊〉 alleadge to proue that Dauid inspired with the spirit of prophecye did foretel not only of the tragicall destruction of the bodies of his
this distinction refute the argument which is made of those that ar on your side who thus conclude Christ sayde on the crosse It is finished Ergo hee went not downe to to hell By the same reason I thus argue Christ said on y â— crosse It is finished Ergo he did not shed his bloud nor was buried nor rose againe nor ascended into heauen to fulfill all things Ephes 4. 10. for if all things were then fulfilled on the crosse what neede he to ascende to fulfill all things Therfore I did proue that this argumeÌ„t of yours did mak no more against the descending into hell then against the sheading of his bloud burial resurrection ascention or iudgement al which are necessary to our weale and perfit consummation Farther to proue my distinction to be true I did then quote that as Christ is said to be the Lamb slaine from the beginning of the world so the death of Christ did reach to the first beleeuers and shall do to the last Which consummation by hope is so enioyed as if wee possessed it already for all the promises of Christ are yea and Amen 2. Cor. 1. 20. Therfore I told you this argument It is finished ergo Christ went not down to hel was a fallacy a dicto secundum quid ad simpliciter And I noted how these words were to be vnderstod First that al the scripture and prophecies were fulfilled for so the text noteth Secondly it is finished doth signifye there is no other sacrifice for sinne for by one sacâ—ifice once offred he hath made perfite all that shall be sanctified Hebr. 10 14. And therefore the Papists ioyning y â— merits of Saints with the mirits of Christ doo erre moste shamefully Thirdly it was finished as concerning all his labours and sorrowes Fourthly al his suffrings both of body soule were ended which he finished on y â— crosse Briefly his obedience to his Father was ended for he yelded a pure perfit and perpettuall obedience to his Father and therfore had al power giuen him in heauen earth and hel Moreouer I did proue this interpretation by this text 1. Cor. 15. 54. Then shall be brought to pas the saying that is written ô death where is thy sting O hell where is thy victory and did alleage Beda Peter Martyr and Musculus vp on this place all which were of my iudgement and therefore you had noe more cause to wonder at mee then at these learned men whome all the reformed Churches of England doe reuerence Last of al you seeme to charge me as though I had sayd that Christ went downe to suffer which thing I neuer mentioned but that hee wente downe to manifest his death to triumph in his owne person ouer the Diuell and personally to redeme vs from hell Then you call them dunces whence I had that destinction I had it from Musculus and Musculus from the word of God therefore you must embrace these distinctions or else you will speake erroneouslie Omnia prohate quod bonum est tenete Try all things holde that which is best This work is worthy my wit or any other Interpreters Neither will I leaue the ware that is in my poore pack for all the treasures of Egypt An absurditie in the D. Reply That Christ beeing nailed handes and feete to the Crosse died without shedding of blood HVME his Reioynder to the 15. sect OVr opinion is that Christ vpon the Crosse did offer a perfect sacrifice for our sinnes and finish the whole worke of our redemption This we proue by his owne last words It is finished For after the manner of men who hauing brought their worke to the last stroake say they haue done withall make an end Hee hauing borne all the malice that death and Hell could inflict told the standers by that hee had done And this hee did immediatlie before hee gaue vp the ghost because hee could not as hee was man tell them the same after that he was dead Neither wanted this speach great reason It was to make full our hope and to confirme our faith which otherwise might haue stood in suspense For seeing our sinnes had deserued not onelie the temporall death which the beholders did see him die but also all the deathes of Hell which they nor no mortal eie could see him suffer He tolde them himself that hee had finished and done all that there might remaine no scruple for vs to doubt of Thus therefore wee reason against these men If Christ finished the whole worke of our Redemption vpon the crosse there remained nothing for him to do in hel But he did finishe the whole worke of our redemption vpon the Crosse Ergo there remained nothing for him to do in hell This Syllogisme is so strong that you dare not denie one syllable of it Wherfore when I hard you in the pulpit violate the text wheron it staÌ„deth I could not choose but tell you that you ranne beyond your selfe and made your audience feare least you would haue sent Christ to Hell to suffer an error indeede but such as some better divines then your self that sealed the truth with their blood to avoid the absurdities of your opinioÌ„ did fall into in King Edwards time when your opinion was most generallie embraced and confirmed by convocation Whereas you say that I say much and proue little I proue as much as I intend It was not my purpose to confute anie thing that you had spoken trulie For these words it is finished are not to be referred to the instant when they were spoken but to the end of his passion which immediatly followed This you confesse and why should I confute you Or which is stranger howe could you finde a contrarietie in my wordes and see none in your owne speaking the same that I doe But this is amongest much more worse then this the frute of your malice And heer in your sermon at Chippenham there was no more between vs but onlie that you made a countenance to confute that which we avouch you confes convaying your batterie in such sorte that you made the beholders thinke that you plaied vpon our sconce but in very deede did â—euell all your ordinance another way But now you are growne somewhat further from mee for though you confesse that Christ went not to hell to suffer and that he died immediatlie after he said It is finished yet you denie that this was the end of his worke Your reason is that hee had not shed his blood and that without shedding of blood there is no remission of sinnes And may wee beleeue you M. Doctor That Christ was nailed hands and feet to the crosse without shedding of his blood If you will haue vs so credulous as to thinke this may be true first resolue vs of what grief Christ died in not much more
might seeme to haue fled the brunt of your answere I am sorie that it fell out so For God is my witnesse I sought not mine own praise but did seek the truth Exâ—use my rashe enterprise in writing to you without anie acquaintance Let my loue of the truth which pricked mee for-warde and your challenge which set mee a worke excuse that fault if it was anie Far-well in the Lorde God giue vs al vnderstanding hearts Your freend though vnacquainted ALEXANDER HVME HIL his Reply Truth it is I did preach since a Leicock because I hard that M. Wisdome had set that opinion of yours abroche againe at Cosham I did heere also confirme mine Not because I am desirous to be contâ—tious but because I would haue no Christian man to doubt of the articles of his Faith you aske me what comforâ—able or necessarye matter you denye that wee doe preach I answere and I pray you consider oâ— it wee are borne in sinne how are we deliuered from sinne but by Christ which was conceiued by the holy Ghoste wee haue the magnitude of sinnes with Peter the multitude of sins with Mary Magdalen the turpitude of sins with the woman taken in adultery the infamy of sinnes with the Publican the diuturnity of sinnes with the theefe on the gallowes the cruelty of sinnes with paule and the recidiuation into sinnes with diuers of the Saints yet if wee repent wee are pardoned for Chrisâ—es sake who purely perfectly perpetualy obeyed the law of God By reason of our sins we ar subiect to al punishmeÌ„ts both corporal and spiritual and to the wrath of God All the punishments due to vs did Christ suffer vpon the crosse both in body and soul and therfore it is called his Passion He suffered in the Garden in Annas and Caiphas house in Pilats hal but vpon the crosse as you say truly he suffered the agonies of death tormenets of hell Further by reason of sin this was laide vpon the first Parentes Thou shalt die the death so by reason of this sentence not only the body was condemned to death but the soul to damnation To deliuer vs from these two punishments the soule of Christ went to hell and returned and the body of Christ that lay dead in the graue rose again mightily naturallye speedily and happely Beesides Christ rose in deede he gaue himselfe to be felte and handled herevpon wee are assured that he conquered death and hell He ascended into Heauen and therfore our praiers are hard when we pray vnto him and he giueth vs gifts for our ministry and so he shall come to iudgement at the last day to giue vs perfect blessednes You confess that Christ was borne in deede liued and fulfiled the law in the likenes of our flesh sinne excepted he dyed in deede he was buried in deede he rose and ascended in deede and yet you will not confesse that he personalye descended How can al these articles going before and comming after be vnderstode of the person of Christ and of his humanity not this Therefore you denying this personall descending of Christ into hell take away the greate comfort of our deliuerance from hell You say we are deliuered from hell by Christs death so are we too by his birth For if Christ had not bene borne he had not dyed so if there had not beene a seperation of the body and soule of Christ he could neuer haue conquered death or hell for by descending into the graue and that personally he conquered death hath deliuered vs from death by going downe into hell personallye he hath conquered hel And for this cause the scripture applieth it to the death of Christ because death was as Paul saith Phil. 3. A dissoluiton of body and soule And these 2. parts being dissolued Christ came from the graue and from hel and Christ did conquer both and triumph ouer them in him self as it is Col. 2. 15. These Jewes do aske asigne from heauen Math. 22 38. Luk. 11. 29. to whom Christ said A wicked and addulterous Generation doeth aske a signe but no signe shal be giuen them but the signe of Ionas the prophet for as Ionas was in the whales belly three dayes and three nights so shall the sonne of man bee in the hart of the earth three daies and three nights Which words Basilius Magnus interpreteth very wel These words a signe is a matter made manifest coÌ„teyning y â— declaration of some thing that was hidden as y â— signe of Ionas representeth y â— descending of Christ into hell and the resurrection of Christ and as Bede saith Rhab. also he gaue theÌ„ a sign but not from heauen because they were vnworthy to see it but from the depth of hel Therefore M. Hume this is a most comfortable doctrine that Christ doth deliuer vs from hell which albeit you agnise as well as wee yet because you deny the meanes where by it was purchased you deny a most comfortable doctrine for not only the body of Christ was in the heart of the earth but the son of man which signifieth the whole humanitye that is the soule and the body Ionas was in the whales belly aliue and yet came forth Christ was in the graue dead in flesh and aliue in hel and yet came forth Therefore to take away this maner of descending taketh away from the Church a singular comfort and openeth a gap to many errors confuted already by the Fathers For if Christ did conquer hel by the power of the Godhead only and not as he is a man what neede had he to take vpon him our nature but because as man he might be Lord not a heauen and the Angels but of the earth and of the inhabitants therof and of hell and the diuels You say the world is sory for me In the world saith Christ you shal haue affliction And he telleth me the world wil hate me I way not these things for I am noe man-pleaser nor lover of the world But if in my Sermon I had disagreed with Dauid Ezechiel Esay Peter Paule Christ himselfe 923 as you haue done in your an were I hope I should be both sory and ashamed Touching M. Chalfont whome you terme a man without iudgement and that he spake impudently and enuiously I neuer sawe him before that time and but once sence but by that speech and conference which I had with him I ford him to be learned and vâ—id of gail Such of his neighbours as I haue talked with did giue him y â— deserued praise of a learned and honest man And for asmuch as hee hath preached 926 sound doctrine in preaching the affirmatiue and that doctâ—in which is allowed by the learned conuocation of
it be a discredite to them that other men bee thought off aswell as they My conclusion was that their names broght no more credite to your cause then Calvine Beza did bring ours My arguments were twise so manie as you make them 1. That they were all but men 2. That they who now are old were sometimes new 3. That they had no better warrant of Gods Spirit 4. That errors grew as thicke in their times as in ours Seeing then all men are fraile and old errours are as bad as newe and newe truthes as good as olde seeing the spirit of truth was then no stronger nor the spirit of error weaker all things in this comparison you see are aequall and my argumeÌ„t holdes for anie thing that you haue said You take the bit in your teeth and runne out of the way with an argument ab accidente Therefore fare-you-well that is not my way You cite Augustine and Ierome onelie to make vp nomber Their confession of their owne frailtie is against you If my arguments had not beene so true before that no witnesses can make them truer this would haue helpt mee well Men may see that you haue either a meruelous ill cause or great stoare of small judgement that can take so much paines to bring witnes into the courte to condemne your selfe And heere nowe seeing your owne men do counsell mee to trust no man without the worde I conjure you to trouble mee no more with your great musters of Luther Selneccer Chytreus Pomeranus c. If I would run that course we should set al the learned of the world together by the eares You will beare mee down I confesse with nomber For all the Monkes Friars Iesuites Abbotts Bishops Cardinals and Popes woulde swaie to your side If I were not sure of God and his truth I would neuer draw sword nor giue stroake in the cause HVME sect 3. THeir weaknes is no where more apparant then in this mater that we haue now in hand for â—erom ioineth his opinioÌ„ herein with a palpable error that Christ descended to deliuer the Fathers which to that day had bin in prison Augustine is not far behinde him who though hee confesseth that the Fathers were in ioy with Abraham Lazarus yet after some long disputation whether he did deliver all or some why these more then those at length he concludeth that hee did deliuer whome hee him selfe thought good For after that they had once conceaved that his soule descended into a locall hell There followed which could not choose many inconueniences There was non of them dreamed that which you avouch that hee descended into hell there to triumph or bind the divels or to augment their sorrows by shewing them from what grace they had fallen HILL his reply You write that Ierome and Augustine did hold a palpable error that is that Christ descended to deliuer the Fathers I hope you will not deny but the fathers haue their deliuerance by Christ from hell Therfore by the merits and works of Christ who I am sure conquered both deth and hell Therefore where you proue that Augustine and Ierome do erre I will leaue them as I saide before but where in they spake the truth I will prayse God for them But let vs see howe many wayes the scripture may be corrupted that is by adding altering diminishing Eue in the third Chap. of Genesis taught all her children so to doe for in the 3. verse thus shee saith But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden God hath said ye shal not eat of it neither shall ye touch it least ye dye First she changeth the word of God for God fayth Gen. 2. 17. of the tre of knowledge of good and euill thou shalt not eate Those words of the tree of knowledge of good and euill she changeth putteth in for them in the miust of the garden Farther God said they shuld not eat of it shee added that they might not touch it God said they should surely dye Eue said least wee dye heere she diminished the scriptures If then the Fathers haue added to the scriptures that the Fathers were fet out of hell there I leaue them and if you change hell in to graue as you do in the 16. psal and Act. 2. I wil leaue you also for I stand not vpon mens sayings but vpon the word of God But where you boldly affirme that not one of the Fathers haue deemed that which I say you shewe your self either to bee malicious in hiding the truth or else so ignorant that you haue not read the Fathers for diuers both old new are of my iudgement Ambrose on the fourth Chapter of the Ephesians thus writeth Christ therefore comming downe from heauen into the earth was borne a man afterward he died and descended into Hell from whence rising the third day he shewed death vanquished to every creature Augustine de tempore In his 137. sermon and in his thrid sermon of the resurrection thus sayeth Hell did restore him as a conquerour and the heauens did receaue him as a triumpher And in his second sermon hee saieth thus Behold you haue hard what our defender the God of vengeance is saide to haue done freely For after he was exalted that is was hanged of the Iewes on the crosse that I may touche these thinges brieflie assoone as hee had giuen vp the ghost the soule vnited to the Diuinitie descended into the bottom of hel and when he had touched the band of darkenesse as a fearefull glorious spoyler the wicked hellish Legions were affrayde trembling began to enquire saying Who is this dreadful glorious man Eusebius writing of the resurrection of our sauiour hath the like We must know that in the selfe same houre wherein our Sauiour bowing his head gaue vp the ghost his body being left in the graue his foul with the Diuinitie went downe to triumph ouer Hell Fulgentius writing to King Thtasymund in his third booke and eight Chapter not dreaming but wel aduised thus writeth The true humanitie of the sonne of God neyther was wholye in the graue nor wholie in hell but in the Sepulcher hee lay dead according to his true fleshe but in his Soule descended into Hell In his soule hee returned to the flesh which lay in the Sepulcher but in respect of the Diuinitie which neither is holden in place nor limited by bond he was wholy in the graue with his flesh and wholy with his Soule in Hel and by this meanes was fully enery where Christ because God was not seperated from the humanitie which he had assumpted which was both with his Soule in Hell that from Hel his Soule might returne a Conqueresse and was with his fleshe that by reason of his speedie resurrection it might not be corrupted I haue heere alleaged the
But doth purport the same that Iohn tolde vs in other wordes I came from my Father into the world and again I leaue the world and go to my Father For seeing the Apostle in this place bringeth his ascension as an argument of his descending which Iohn also did before him No man can asscend vp into heauen but he that hath descended from heaven the sonne of man which is in heauen It must follow by necessarie consequence that he descended thither whence he ascended Now I trust you will say that he ascended into heauen not from Hell but from Bethanie in the sight of his Disciples Secondlie if the place where he descended was heauen Hel cannot be the place whither hee descended For if euer he was there he went not thither in 30. yeares after his descension and aboue If you will say that he first descended into the earth and then into Hell then that descending could not be one motion beeing so manie yeares intermitted but must needes bee two first from heauen into the earth and then from the earth into Hell HIL his Reply VVHere you say you will let mee alone with my Hebrue words yet deny they signifie hel I hope because I haue proued that they signifie not the graue as you haue ignorātly or against your conscience affirmed at your next answering you will say they signifie hell and confesse your disagreement with Dauid Esay and Ezechiel Now you conclude with certaine pregnant reasons as you imagine your first is this These words do purporte vnto vs that which Iohn told vs in other words I cam from my father into the world and againe I leaue the world and goe to my Father Ioh. 16. 18. This is nothing pertaning to the matter we haue in hand vnles this be your argument Christ came into the world ergo he went not into Hell Heerof I thus argue Christ descended into the virgins wombe as your selfe say ergo he came not into the world Or thus Christ descended into the world ergo he descended not into the graue Christ was borne of the virgin came into the world to reconcile vs to his Father by his death taking away our sinnes and triumphing in his owne person ouer death and hell 319 Therefore not only Christ came downe into the world but as our body for sinne lyeth in the graue so his body went into the graue and because our soule was mancipate vnto hell his soule went into hel that by his discending our soules might bee freed from hell In your next reason you say that Christ descended thither whence he ascended now that is meerely false as appeereth Math. 12. 40. For as Ionas was in the whales belly 3 dayes and 3. nights so shall the Sonne of man be 3. daies and 3. nightes in the hart of the earth Now Christ ascended from the superficies of the earth but he descended into the hart of the earth Therefore as this is no good argument Christ ascended from the mount ergo he ascended not from the graue so this is also a weake argument Christ ascended from the world ergo he went not into hell M. Hume lyeth in his bed and early ariseth afterward many seeing him he rideth towards Bromham ergo M. Hume came from Bath and not from his bed Then you adde this reason if Christ descended into hell then it was 30. yeeres after his birth and so it was not one motion you charge me with cloudes of sophistry but heer is a thick mist of sophistications what you meane by this motion I know not but all the actions of our Sauiour are aptly deuided into humility and glory of his humility there are 4. degrees First he came into the virgins womb secondly into the world thirdly to the graue fourthly to hel Of his glory and exaltation likewise there are foure degrees First he came out of hell and the graue secondly he conuersed in the earth thirdly hee was carried in the aire in a cloud and then entred the heauens with glory Also where you say that if hell were the place whyther he descended it must needs be the place from whence he ascended This as I haue saide before is vtterly false if you meane the immediate place from whence he ascended for it is known to all beleuers that Christ did descend into the graue but he did not ascend immediatlye from the graue therefore your reason is against the Scripture wher you make a distinction betwene the resurrection and the ascention you may vnderstande if it please you that Eph. 4. 9. The word ascend containeth in it al y ◠degrees of Christs exaltation therfore the resurrection also as the word descend doth comprehēd all the degrees of Christs humilitie HVME his Reioynder IT is as easie to holde an Eele by the taile as you to the question The place whereon wee stand is in the 4. 9. to the Ephes But that hee ascended what is it but that hee first descended into the lower-moste partes of the earth Which wordes most of the learned and many of your owne favorites takes to be as if he had said that the Sonne of God cloathed in mans nature is ascended vp to heauen what is it but that the same Sonne of God first came downe into the lower-most partes of the earth and tooke on him mans nature so that hee which descended is euen the selfe same that is ascended to fulfill all things and giueth nowe these gifts to men to bee some Apostles some Prophetes some Evangelistes c. And so they take the lower-most parts of the earth not to be the center of the earth in respect of his highest and extreame superficies but the whole earth in respect of the heuens Or if you like not that which notwithstanding is most receaued amongst the learned the base estate that hee descended into in respect of the high estate that he descended from To ouerthrowe this interpretation you alledge that the Hebrew wordes ERETSTACHTITH is in that language the proper name of Hell To proue it you alledge the places which I haue confuted in the former 2. sectiōs After which labour I gathered some reasons from the infallible rules of nature to proue that this place cannot carie your sense My grounds were Vnius motus vnum est principium vnus finis And contrariorum motuum vnius res moventis principium vnius est finis alterius contra For example East and West South and North vp and downe are contraries If anie thing runne west-warde and return east-ward the furthest point that it runneth towards the west is the beginning of the motion towards the east or if a man come down a high hill and returne vp againe The lowest steppe that he came downe is the first step of his going vp Whervpon thus I resoned The beginning of Christs ascending
words as I speak them HVMâ— his 5. Sect. BVt that hee neuer was there hee is too curious that will not stand content with Christes owne testimonies Father into thy handes I commend my spirit And in another place This day shalt thou bee with mee in Paradice And heere it is a world to see how men on your side labour to put out this candel First you say that this place Father into thy hands I commend my spirit is borrowed of Dauid and must bee taken in the same sense as Dauid vsed it before But you must consider when we vse other mens wordes either we cite them as testimonies or vsurpe them by imitation If we bring them in as witnesses wee may not alter their testimonie but if wee imitate them wee may without impeachmeÌ„t apply them to what sense best may beseeme our purpose In this place Christ citeth not Dauids wordes to testifie of his passion but imitateth Dauid in commending his soule into the handes of God Where you see that no necessity inforceth the same sense But be it so and I thinke it is so and that it maketh much against you For seing Dauids soule commeÌ„ded into the hands of God was neuer in Hell it will follow that Christes soule commended to the same protector was lykewise neuer there except you will ascribe lesse vertue to Christs prayers then to Dauids But Dauids soule say you went not streight way into heaven because he lived manie yeares after That he liued anie long time after if it were denied you will hardlie proue it But that maketh not to the question when Davids soule came into heauen But whether hee that commendeth his soule into the hands of God doth purpose that it shall descend into hell prooue that and you shall haue the goall As for Dauid he hauing deuoured heauen in hope doubted not if he liued anie long time after to speake that in the praesent time which he was well assured would come to pas And seeing Dauid was a figure of Christ and spake manie things in his owne person which aggree better with the person figured then with the figure these wordes may bee vnderstood as the casting of lottes on his garment and the digging of his hands and feet Wherefore if you will answere this place to the satisfaction of them that dissent from you you must bring proof that hee that meaneth to goe to Hell doth commend his soule into the handes of God or els you shall neuer bee able to darken the light of this Sunne with anie cloude of Sophistrie HILL his reply INdeed if these woords were spoken in the present time some shew of truth were in your words but in the Greeke they are in the future-tence 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Father into thy hands I wil coÌ„mit my spirit Now your argument is this Christ commended his soule vnto his Father ergo immediatly he went not downe to hell Heere is more in your conclusion then is in your premises You may coâ—clud his soule went to heauen But not immediatly for it went to hell as I haue proued before for hell in the 16 Psalme doth not signifie the sorrowes of hell but the place as I haue confirmed already Therefore it is better to translate I wil commend then I do commend as Stephanus oâ— this place noteth Paule sayth Eph. 4. and 10. verse Now in that he ascended what is it but that he first descended into the lowest parts of the earth He that descended is euen the same that ascended farte aboue all heauens to fulfill all things Now if the same Christ did first desceÌ„d which did ascend then he descended in soule and body as he ascended in soule and body For both these must be effected in a wonderfull maner for they are reckoned by Salomon amongst the most stupendious works of the Sonne of God Proâ— 30. 4. Who hath ascended vp to heauen and descended who hath gathered the winde together in his fyst who hath established all the ends of the world By this scripture I iuferre that to ascend and descend are as miraculous works as to create and gouerne the world But if the soule of Christ did got to heaueÌ„ immediatly as you affirms contrary to this text then the descending of Christ had not bene so maruelous as his ascending Besides as you after alleage there is but one ascending but if Christs soule first went to heauen then his body then were there two ascensions But euen as Christ was but once borne and once dyed and once buried and once rose from the dead and but once commeth into iudgment so as Cyprian saith in his Sermon of the ascending of Christ Christ did once descend into hell they shall see God no more on the crosse nor they that are damned in hel Wherefore may it please you to accept the iudgement of Athanasius a Greke Father a man persecuted for the truthes sake by the Arrians he in his Creede saith thus who suffred for our saluation and descended into hell And interpreting the 1. Cor. 3. writeth Satan was enuious against our sauior for he killed him not knowing that it wold make against himself for Christ after his cros going down into hel hath vaÌ„quished death And becaus he knew no sin be could not be holde of deth Thus you see that not only Hill Augustine and Ierome doe say that Christ after hee had vttered these words into thy hands I will commend my spirit but Athanasius a Greek father who better then you vnderstood the meaning of these words Therefore it is a woÌ„der to see how those of your side labour to extinguish this everlasting light of Gods truth set vp a cousuming candle of your owne making Where you teach that Christs Soule did no more descend into hell then Dauids did therin you are deceaued For Christ was to deliuer vs from hell Dauid also wherefore if Christs soule had not gone to hell Dauids must and mine and yours And for this cause as you say they are true in Christ figured but not in Dauid the figure and herevpon Peter thus reasoneth that they could not be true in Dauid For Christ soule was in hel and yet not tormented his body in the graue but not corrupted wheras Dauids body saw corruption and if his soule had gone to hell it had found no redemption Therefore to be in graue and returne without corruption and to be in hell and returne with conquest of the diuell were two peculiar things to the Sonne of God not to any other of the sons of men And heere you vtter an other blasphemy that Christs soule had no other prerogatiue then Dauids soule for by the same reasone you may argue that Christs body had no greater prerogatiue then Dauids body for as this is false so
Martyr Lauaterus Prouerb 27. In England Lambert Robert Samuel Latimer Becon Hutchinson Fox and Nowell Heere are 20. most learned men of these latter times as I can shew you in my poore Library besides that most learned and reuerend Father M. Allen and besides the aduised iudgement of the learned Conuocations of England not only in King Edwards raigne Anno Domini 1552. but also since the raigne of her Maiestie 1571. In the which Canuocations I am perswaded were as learned men as any were either in England or Europe Therfore the learned reader must either thinke you a man of little reading and that you neuer sawe these learned mens workes or else of greate malice that you will disable al these for learning who left a better testimonie behinde them then euer you wil vnlesse you haue mor then you haue shewed in this answer The other vntruth is that SHEOL in the 16. Psalme doth signyfie the torments of hell which Christ suffered in his passioÌ„ on y â— crosse That this is vntrue it is manifest not by conceit but by Pet. Sermon Act. 2. 31. Hee knowing this before spake of the resurrection that his soule was not left in hell nor his flesh saw corruption You say it is spoken of the passion Peter saith it is spoken of the resurrection and good cause hath he so to say for the words going before and coÌ„ming after do prooue it The words going before are these Psalm 16 9. Wherefore my hart was glad my glory reioyseth my fleshe also shall rest in hope The words following in the 11. verse are these Thou shalt shewe me the path of life in thy presence is the fulnes of ioy and at thy right are pleasures for euer more Where can you finde your torments in the word glad or in the word reioiseth or in the word rest or in these words fulnesse of ioy or in these pleasures for evermore Was Christ glad of his torments Did he reioise or wepe in them Who would deliuer this doctrine but hee that wanteth either science or conscience or both To lye once is a fault but affirme it twice is a greater fault To speake a lye is hurtful but to write a lye aduisedly is more hurtfull To lye in a matter politicall is dangerous but to lye in deuine matters without speedie repentance is damnable You say noe vantage is giuen to me nor inconuenience to you if you grant SHEOL to be Hel Let your frinds iudge what vantage you haue geuen to the truth and shame to your self by gainsaying Saint Peter and by affiâ—ming that in the resurrection are torments where Dauid and Peter say are fulnes of ioy and pleasures for enermore Therefore it is the saying of Peter that Christs soule was not left in hell and not my conceit and it is deceit in you to affirm the contrary Further where you say that Tremelius and Iunius are better learned in the Hebrew language then my selfe I confesse it so are the Iewes them selues then Tremelius and Iunius shall I therefore beleue the Iewes no more will I beleue the Translation of any other learned man if he disagree with Dauid and Sauite Peter Finially to answer your curious question you aske me in what hell was Christ soule before his buriall To this I answer in that hell whither all Infidels goe for their vnbelefe I reade but of one Hell if you knowe any more let mee see your proofe and theÌ„ wil I tel you into what hel Christ desceÌ„ded But who but you doth thinke it an vnpossible thing for a soule to desceÌ„d into hel before the body be buried The soule in an instaÌ„t passeth to heaueÌ„ or hel but the body I am sure must haue time to be buried for bodies are in places circumscriptiuely Angels and soules definitiuely and God is in all places vniuersally And the soule came out of hell into the body before the body could come out of the graue therfore most aptly it is said Acts 12. 31. Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer my flesh to see corruption For as August saith in his 57. epistile ad Dardanum That was spoken of his soul which cam from hel so quickly this of his body which could not corrupt by reason of his speedy resurrection and writing on the 85. Psalme he saith wherfore this is his voice in the psalme not by any mans coniecturs but by the exposition of the Apost Thou shalt not leaue my soule in hell nor suffer thy holy one to see corruption HVME his Reioynder IN this section I followed Calvine from whose judgement I am nowe departed on this place of the Psalme as said is before sect 4. Yet that the reader may see how neare the trueth Calvine creepes I will defend him from all this wyde shot and cleare my self of these hainous accusations First you begin with vntruthes there is nothing so much in your mouth It should seeme that the moulde is not vnfit for such matter that casteth so much shot of that sise But if you had not beleeued your secretarie better then my owne copie the first of these vntruthes had neuer founde the waye from your owne lippes My wordes are Tu multa de nominibus inferni contra doctissimos huius atatis disputas As for your favorits in the end of my Epistle I graunted that you wanted not the countenance of sundrie great writers who rather said as you say then confirme their saying by Scripture or reason My wordes were multos habet fateor magnâ—s patronos causa vestra qui ita potius censuerunt quam ratione sententiam suam confirmarunt NotwithstaÌ„ding all this you runne such a treble on mee with vntruthes that if I would runne the counter-tenor you would blushe to heare the discorde of your owne descant As for your 20. authours first they were not all Hebricians nor vnderstood the word wherin you say they tooke your parte Secondlie though some of them drewe neere your opinion yet they neuer wrote of SHEOL to bee taken as you will haue it Thridlie Peter Martyr held that the soule of Christ did present it self to all the dead aswel the blessed as the damned Fourthlie Luther and Latimer holde that Christ suffered in Hell Fiftlie Lossius and Hemingsus holde that the whole Christ as he was borne of the Virgine Marie descended into Hel. Sixtlie Mollerus affirmeth that your opinion cannot be proved by this place of this Psalme Seuinthly M. Nowell holdeth that Christ by the vertue of his death did pearse to the dead and the damned Hell Eightlie Lambert saith nothing for you but onelie quoteth a place out of Augustine to another purpose wherein August seemeth to say as you say But Lambert neither lyketh nor dislyketh it Nynthlie Robert Samuell saith no more for