church estate was dissolved their Temple and holy citie burned when Babylon and Bels temple in it flourished and was garnished with the holy vessels stollen out of Gods temple The Lord had swallowed up all the habitations of Jakob swallowed up Jsrael and all her pallaces destroyed his places of assemblie caused the solemne feasts and Sabbathes to be forgotten in Sion cast off his Altar abhorred his sanctuarie Mount Sion was desolate and the foxes walked upon it But was Babylon which thus abused Gods people and burned his Temple Gods church If not how should the Church of Rome which now is Babylon the mother of harlots and abominations of the earth which is drunken with the blood of the Saincts how should she be Gods church people or Temple 3. Had not that people also polluted the Temple of the Lord and fallen into notorious idolatrie c. for which they were given by the Lord into the hands of the Babylonians and were they not stil the Lords church and people c. Answ. They were some of them as before is shewed And so Christians having polluted Gods temple of Christianitie and fallen into idolatries and heresies were given over of the Lord some into the hands of the Turk as Israel into the hands of Assur some into the hands of the Pope as Iudah into Babel And such Israelites as embraced the religiō of the Assyrians Babylonians ceased to be Gods people actually til they repented others that resisted evil and kept the trueth as Daniel and his brethren were Gods holy people So all in Rome and Turkie that abide in the truth refusing their abominations are Gods holy people the rest that have received Maometisme and Antichristianisme are not Gods people actually albeit many of them are Gods elect and shal so be manifested when they come out from them But mine opposite changeth the state of the question turning it from Babylon it self to Israel Gods people in Babylon and so from the Church of Rome now Babylon to the faithful witnesses of Christ therin of whom none make doubt 4. Js there not difference to be put between the people of God in Babylon and Babylon it self c. Answ. Yes which whiles it is not held unto we are dallied with The controversie is about the church of Rome it self which is Babylon the reasons given are for Gods people open or secret in that Babylon Who seeth not the deceyt For God hath had his people in Rome not onely when it was Antichristian but when it was heathen and multitudes have been killed for Christ therin in both estates This justifieth not but condemneth Rome the murderer of the Saincts Obj. To make this matter yet more plaine observe Zach. 2. 6. 7. Ho ho come forth c. Deliver thyself ô Sion that dwellest with the daughter of Babylon This plainly sheweth that Sion is in Babylon not mount Sion it self c. but the people of God that perteyned to Sion among whom when God set his Temple he sayd withall I wil dwell in the midst of you shewing that the Temple was a token of his presence among them a band of the holy and mutual conjunction that was between God and them whether they were bound to come for to worship God and to bring their sacrifices Answ. In deed this maketh the matter more plaine For 1. here he grāteth the Temple to have been a token of Gods presence among his people but when so I applied it in expounding 2. Thes. 2. he resisted me and would have it there to be the people the church 2. This temple the token of Gods presence and band of his communion with his people God had forsaken For his people synning in it by their idols Ezek. 8. God in wrath sent destroyers upon them Ezek. 9 But before destruction he marked his people on the forehead that cried out for all the abominations Which being doen he slayed to destruction all others not marked both old and yong and began at his sanctuarie Then scattred he coales of fyre over the citie removed his glorie the signe of his presence out of his Temple and from the middest of the citie to signifie his departure from amongst them Then came the king of Babylon Gods servant to execute his wrath and performed the vision in burning both Temple and citie and carying the people thence into Babylon So Moses prophesie was fulfylled Levit. 26. 31. 36. Then both such godly ones as had not been polluted with the abominations in Ierusalem and had been marked of God for his such synners also as by their afflictions were brought to repentance and confessed their iniquitie and the iniquitie of their fathers and had their uncircumcised harts humbled and turned unto him with all their hart and with all their soule he mercifully respected them remembred his covenant towards them The rest perished in their synns being given over in just judgment whiles they were in that dispersion to serve other goods wood and stone though yet by his prophets God warned them not to doe it Ier. 10. So the Lord set the signe of his gracious presence in the Christian church Rev. 4. but they soon defiled it by their idolatries heresies for which they were chastised Rev. 6. Wherfore God in justice ready to bring further plagues marketh and sealeth on the foreheads such as were his Rev. 7. then his judgments came forth in greater measure Rev. 8. by a beast or kingdom whose chief seat should be in Babylon that is Rome he suffered the Saincts to be overcome and gave him power over all kinreds and tongues and nations that such as had not their names written in the book of life should worship him and be damned for ever In which Babylon or Popish church the Lord hath notwithstanding his open witnesses that withstand their abominations unto the death and many moe of his elect whom he calleth out in his time from that whorish church and these are the people of God that perteyn to mount Sion and wil no more justifie the state of the church of Rome at this day then Gods lost sheep of Israel justified Babylon of old Obj. Note here 1. That the people of God pollute his temple become apostates and idolaters and are captived in Babylon Answ. But note withall that they have their temple of God and holy citie consumed with fyre and are caried out of their holy land into an other synfull nation as before is shewed 2. That thus now Sion is in Babylon and consequently the Temple of God so to speak the people of G. the church of G. is in Babylon Ans. So to speak But the speech is unproper and God no where speaketh so The visible Temple was burnt and they had none with them in Babylon but Bels temple none of the Lords The lost sheep the people of God perteyning to mount
Sion as whileere he sayd were in Babylon And for his figurative applying of the Temple here to the people or church it is amyss it should be applyed to God himself For so the Lord sayth by the Prophet though I have scattred them among the countries yet wil J be to them as a little Sanctuarie in the countries where they shal come Ezek. 11. 16. So the Lord not the people was the Sanctuarie or temple in Babylon 3. Stil they are acknowledged of God to be Sion his people c though in Babylon Answ. So I alwayes and stil acknowledge God to have his people in Babylon the church of Rome But it should be proved if it were possible that Babylon is Sion or the church of Rome to be the church of God 4. The Lord calleth them from thence by diverse prophets c. 5. Being so called they did not all come togither at once c. Answ. These things are true and so for the Lords calling of his people out of Babylon now But it is not yet concluded not ever wil be soundly that the Babylonians are Gods people except the elect which belong to mount Sion though-actually in Babylon Obj. There wil be of Gods people yet called from thence even then when this Babylon the citie of Rome shal be burnt with fyre and cast down never to rise any more Rev. 18. 4. 8. c. Answ. This conclusion is partly true and partly implieth error It is true that there shal be of Gods people called out of Babylon til she be utterly cast down But the errour implied is that he maketh Babylon the citie not the church of Rome and seemeth also to restreyn it to the citie properly and to the burning of the material citie and houses therof Wheras this Babylon is the great Whore who though her cheif â—ear is in Rome yet her ecclestaâ—â—ical jurisdiction reacheth over peoples and kinreds and tongues and nations And when the tenth part of that citie fell it is not meant of the tenth part of the houses in Rome but of people in that catholik church And when God calleth his people out of Babylon it is not meant out of Rome onely or Italic but Spaine also and all other places where Poperie reigneth Neyther is it meant in regard of civil politie as if the subjects in Italie Spaine and other lands might not remaine in those comon wealthes still but they are called out from the heresies idolatries and extravagant jurisdiction of the Romish church So the civil bondage of the Iewes in the old Babylon typed the spiritual bondage of Gods people in this new Babylon the church of Rome and out of it are men called not out of the civil state or material place For who will deny but Christian churches may dwel in Spaine Italie yea and Rome it self if the magistrates wil suffer them and yet not disobey this precept Come out of her my people It is a doctrine of grace and necessarie unto salvation to come out of the church estate of this Romish Babylon but to understand it of the CoÌ„mon wealths estate and to call men out of it were a doctrine of rebellion contrarie to Rom. 13. 1. 1. Pet. 2. 13. 14. Wheras I concluded Gods covenant of grace is not therefore with her at all for she is appointed to damnation 2 Thes. 2. 8. 12. Rev. 18. 8. 21. but the elect that obey Gods voice calling them out of her them hee will receive into covenant he will be a father unto them and they shal be his sonns daughters as he hath promised 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18. He replyeth As if they were not already under the covenant of God being his people or as if they could be the Lords people and yet not be under his covenant The Jewes knew better when they were in Babylon and therevpon prayed as in Esai 63. 17. 18. 19. 64. 7. 8. 9. Returne to the tribes of thine inheritance c we are thine c. O Lord thou art our father c. Answ. The people of God in Rome being his elect are under his covenant in regard of his electioÌ„ which was before the world began but until they be called come out they appear not unto men to be under the visible covenant of Gods church whereof Paul speaketh in the place alleaged 2 Cor. 6. That the godly Iewes in Babylon figured Gods elect I before shewed from Rom. 11. 4. 5. 7. and mine opposite gainsayeth it not That God calleth the elect his people even before they know or obey his voice was shewed him also heretofore when God sayd to Paul of heathenish Corinth J have much people in this citie Act. 18. 10. yet Paul knew not who they were till after they beleeved by his preaching So Christ sayd Other sheep J have which are not of this fold Ioh. 10. 16. speaking of the elect gentiles whiles yet they were not sheep actually before men but wild beasts of the wood His comparison from Esai 63. if it be referred to the Martyrs which the church of Rome hath imprisoned killed banished for the trueth is fit and I acknowledge them visibly under Gods covenant But referred to them that are one with the church of Rome in her faith and religion it is very unfitt For those people of God in Babylon were in civil bondage but in freedome of spirit and not servants to syn such were Daniel Ananias and other saints But these of the Romish church religion are in spiritual bondage to Antichrist and so partakers of his synns and in state of death by mans judgement till they obey their calling and come forth though God knoweth them before to be his people by election of grace By this which hath been sayd the wise may discerne what weight there is in Rev. 18. to prove Babylon the present church of Rome to be the church of God because out of her God calleth his people And let all men take notice of the mayn ground of his errour that he would have Babylon now to be the civil state or material citie when in deed it is the ecclesiastical or church For God calleth not peoples out of their civil states it is a doctrine of rebellion so to interpret it and contrary to Rom. 13 but from their synfull ecclesiastical estate All civil states though governed by Popish yea or heathenish magistrates are sanctified to Gods people Act. 25. 10. 11. Rom. 13. 1. 2. c. 1 Pet. 2. 13. 14. 17. they may lawfully continew under them have the use and benefit of them they are all of God and none of them from the bottomless pit or of the Divil as is the Beast the Empire of Antichrist Rev. 17. 8. from which God calleth all his people Of comparing the church of Rome with Israel MIne opposite laboured to strengthen his former reason froÌ„ Rev. 18. by saying And so Jsrael is often called the Lords people in the
nothing to the purpose For whensoever she fled seeing this other woman is not she but the foolish waman which opposeth her selfe and her doctrines unto Wisedom as in Prov 9. 13. 14. 15. 1. 2. c. men should know that the dead are with her and her guests are in the depths of hell He againe injurieth me when he sayth I here make the church of Rome she that now is to be also the court of Gods Temple and holy citie I make her to be the company of Gentiles like the Babylonians of old that tread down the holy citie and it is hee that speaketh M. Sm. language whiles he maketh the Jewes not the Babylonians to be the types of these Antichristians as we have formerly heard And it is his continuall fallacie in reasoning when speech is of the persons to flie to the things and ordinances typed by those holy places as if Ierusalem because it was alwayes the holy citie even when it was ruined could give holines to the prophane Gentiles that burned and trode it down I savd The heathens in their Altars Temples Sacrifices had the divine things of God among them as wel if not better then hath the Man of Syn and his worshipers in their sacrifice of the Mass and other manifold idâ—luries He replieth Why sayth he not then hath the church of Rome in her baptisme and other divine things of God among them though corrupted Answ. Behold here againe a plaine tergiversation I compare the sacrifices of the Gentiles with the sacrifice of the Antichristians he shunneth this and would have me speak of their baptisme As if the Lords Supper were not as holy as Baptisme But he is a frayd once to meddle with the Lords supper in Rome as we have seen before and wil have me write what he thinks good when the reason which I bring is too hard for him And yet he knoweth that elswhere I speak as much of their baptisme But thus he would here evade So I speaking of the Man of syn which in his own understanding is the hierarchie and of his worshipers the popish multitude he tells me Mr. Junius speaketh of the church of Rome and distinguisheth between it and the Man of syn with his hierarchie As if I also did not speak of that church when I mention the worshipers of the man of syn which whiles he by Mr. Iunius help would prove to be Christs true church in his covenant of grace contrary to th'Apostle who sheweth them to be in the state of damnation 2 Thes. 2. he is forced to give ground answereth not my reason touching the Gentiles but presently flieth to his wonted shelter of Judah and Jsrael Not regarding the instruction of the holy Ghost who throughout the book of Revelation mentioneth not the Israelites but as the sealed of God and kept from Antichrists abominations Rev. 7. and for the Popish multitude they are called Gentiles Sodom Egypt Babylon Rev. 11. 17. with which when mine opposite is pressed he flieth to Iudah and Israel for an answer as we every where have seen For the Church of Rome to be the Mother of Christians feighned to be like the true Mother sick swollen with the dropsie c. wherin he chargeth me not to answer or confute Mr. Iunius I have doen both shewing by evidence of the scripture Rev. 17. with Rev. 12. that she is not the true mother Ierusalem but the whore of Babylon not sick onely but dead in her synns Rev. 20. 5. with Ephes 2. 1. And Mr. Iunius himself calleth her the Pseudo christian or falsly-named Christian church Mine opposite after that he hath againe according to his wont fled to Iudah and Israel replieth to Rev. 20. And first He referreth us to his answer unto the like spoken before of Israel Answ. There he laboured to prove it not death in syn but death civilly by overthrow of their estate But that say I though it were true of Israel cannot be the meaning here for this speaketh of their estate whiles Antichrist the Beast and his kingdom liveth reigneth and triumpheth killing the saincts Rev. 20. 4. 5. so that he and his church is not dead civilly that is his kingdom 〈◊〉 not overthrowen all this while Secondly God speaketh here of such a death as is opposed to the first resurrection vers 5. but the first resurrection is from syn Coloss. 2. 13. 3. 1. and it is here sayd to be such as they that have part therin the second death hath no power on such Rev. 20 6. but if it be but a rising from civil death or destruction of an outward state they should not by it be freed from the second death which is due to such onely as rise not from death of syn So this his answer is impertinent Besides even Mr. Iunius himself expoundeth it of them that lye dead in syn 2. Jf this death sayth he be as some think the apostasie spoken of 2. Thes. 2. 3. we must then remember withall that this apostasie is in the Temple of God vers 4. like as there was apostasie in Iudah and Jsrael heretofore and that difference is to be put between Gods Temple and the apostasie it self c. Answ. I have shewed that this death Mr. Iunius also assenting must needs here be understood of death in syn or in Apostasie if so he wil have it named Wheras after his manner he compareth it with th'Apostasie of Iudah and Israel the holy Ghost as we have heard compareth it with Babylon Rev. 17. But if he grant the apostasie in Israel was death in syn it wil help him nothing for what people soever is dead in syn they are not actually Gods visible church til they be raysed in Christ. I grant him a difference between Gods Temple and the Apostasie for if by the Temple he mean the people of God free from apostasie such in deed are not dead but the people of Rome now are in apostasie and have been long and by the sentence of God are dead in syn and apostasie therfore they are not those living stones built up to a spiritual house on Christ the living stone an holy Priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifice and for an habitation of God through the spirit but they are dead stones built upon Antichrist 3. Moreover sayth he the dead here spoken of live againe and reigâ—â— with Christ after the finishing of 1000. yeares Rev. 20. 5. whereas he speaketh of the Church of Rome as being long since damned and dead for ever so this Scripture will be found to be against himselfe Answ. The words of the Scripture are these But the rest of the dead lived not againe until the thousand yeares were finished this is the first resurrection Rev. 20. 5. How maketh this against me Doth it not shew they were dead the 1000. yeares of the Beasts reigne yet he would have them not dead but sick and diseased And how notoriously doth