me nor that I may not agree with them and although I be not able to become perfect yet with al the might I can I straine and breath to come as nigh perfection as I can my desire is good to reach it and although I find that I come many degrees short yet I approche nearer and nearer This is true repentance this is that which S. Paule setteth forth in himselfe Rom. 7. Philip. 3. With this I know God is pleased without this there caÌ„not be any seruice done to God Ath. I like not when men will spye a mote in another mans eye Zelot Our Sauiour Christe doeth not forbid to espie a mote in an other mans eye for we are commaunded to admonish one an other what soeuer it bee wherein we doe amisse but such as you which can not abyde to be admonished doe euer alleadge that saying of Christe as though hee had spoken it vnto this ende that one should not admonish an other It is a â—oule hypocrisie for a man to be curious in reproouing small faultes in other and make no conscience of great and foule vices in him selfe Euerie man ought to looke vnto himselfe and euery man is bound by the woorde of God and charitie to looke vnto others and to conuert them from their sinnes if they can To conuert a sinner from going astray and to saue a soule from death As S. Iames speaketh Chap. 5. vers 20. And so to couer a multitude of sinnes is a blessed thing and ought to moue men with diligence to vse charitable admonition Ath. If they woulde doe it in charitie I could like of it but men haue no loue they doe it because they are precise and captious Zelot Let a man see yee commit any foule crime and reproue yee your aunswere is by and by yee may not iudge when as the matter is plaine and doth iudge it selfe Now when a man doth admonishe you according as God commaundeth yee are bolde with the same mouth which saide ye ought not to iudge for to iudge him affirming that he doth it of a captious and quarrelling minde the thing being so exceeding good of it selfe who made you able for to see into the heart of a man and to find that he doth it not well You are those of whom the Prophet speaketh Woe be vnto those which call good euill and euill good If he be a man spotted with vices himselfe doth reprooue another not caring for to amende ye may boldly say he doth it of an euill minde for can he be charitable vnto other men to seeke their conuersion and not to bee charitable vnto himselfe to seeke his owne saluation Or can he hate vngodlinesse in other and not hate it in himselfe Ath. Well the best of vs all may bee amended wée haue all infirmittes what would yée haue more then this at the last for to call for mercy If a man be sorie and aske God forgiuenes is hée not euen as well as they which are the most precise the mercie of GOD must saue all and what would yée haue a man care for more then to bée saued I praye God I may haue time to repent in the ende Zelot Here is good stuffe here is sound diuinitie I may well terme this reason euen the porter of hell for it openeth euen the widest gate that a thousande may goe in on a ranke This is true that the best of vs all may be amended and that we haue all infirmities but yee doe wickedly applye it for when yee should reason thus the best may be ameded the most holy are spotted and therefore as Saint Paule doth teach they must indeuour for to proceede forwarde for the woorde of God willeth men to striue and contend euen against all vncleanesse and neuer to cease but to come as nigh perfection as is possible But you reason quite contrary that because the best are sinners therefore men are to make small account to amende Ye should think thus the most godly haue neede to sorrowe and mourne and proceede in repentaunce therefore howe much neede haue suche as are grosse sinners For our Sauiour Christ doth shew Iohn 8. That whosoeuer committeth sinne is the seruaunt of sinne Nowe so long as a man is the seruaunt of sinne so long is hee not the seruant of God for no man can serue two so contrary masters Saint Iohn sayeth he that committeth sinne is of the Diuell Where learned yee this that a man may continue in his vices all his life and at the last call for mercy God commaundeth men to repent speedely and not to put of from day to day Hee threatneth exceeding sharpely in the first Chapter of the Prouerbs that when hee hath called and cryed vnto men for to returne from their euill waies and they haue refused that at the last they shall call and not be hearde hee will laugh when their destruction commeth vppon them they shall seeke him but not finde him Doe you thinke that when God hath called and wee refuse that we shall not call and he refuse Ath. The scripture sayth that what time soeuer a sinner doth repente him of his sinne God will forgiue him Zelot If the scripture speake any thing to the comfort of the sorowfull heart the Deuill doth teache the impenitent for to abuse it to their hardening It is most true that at what time soeuer a sinner doth repent his sinnes are all forgiuen but is it in a mans choise for to repent when hee will can hee take a newe heart when it doth please him can he haue the newe birth and a ryght spirite when he will It is God which doth create a man a new or maketh him a new creature in Christ when it pleaseth him A man needeth not for to care for any thing but to be saued but that is not so easie a matter as men thinke Striue for to enter in at the straight gate sayth Christ for manye shall striue and shall not enter The waie is narowe and the gate is straight whiche leadeth vnto life and fewe there bee which find it and if this be true whiche you say that a man may liue in sinne all his life and at the last be saued euen for vtteling a fewe wordes Then the way is broad and easie who cannot finde it who almost doeth not walke in it But alas it is a broken staffe whiche men doe leane vnto God is verie mercifull but not to those which despise his Gospell for vengeance belongeth vnto such it is vnpossible sayth the holy Ghost Hebr. 2. that suche shoulde escape And although ye haue neuer so long time to repent if God doe not worke it in yee you shall die in that blindnesse and hardnesse of heart in whiche yee haue liued wee must seeke in our life time to bee begotten by the worde for the scripture saith God doth beget his children by that Ath. Shall not man hope for to repent at the last Zelot Marke what repentance
will a little trie because ye bragge so stoutly howe well yee beleeue Ye beleeue Christ was crucified and suffred vpon the Crosse but are yee able for to prooue that yee beleeue in Christ crucified Ath. I say I doe are you able for to disprooue me Zelot Sinne is not slaine in ye therfore ye do not Ath. Howe prooue yée that sinne is not slaine in mee Zelot Because it doth raigne in ye therfore it is aliue Ath. I knowe not what yee meane by that Zelot Yee are ledde by sinne ye delight in it ye haue not mortified the lusts and concupiscences of the same And therefore yee haue not learned Christ as S. Paule speaketh Ephesians 4. Ye haue not put of the old man and put on the new man The death and passion of Christ hath not slaine sinne in yee for to beleeue in Christ crucified is for to be crucified with him as the Apostles doe teach in sundry places The reason is this Christe was not crucified for to slay sinne in him self for he had none but in his members which are ioyned and knit vnto him by faith in them the force power of his death doth shew it selfe nowe he which hath not this worke of the death of Christ in him that hee feeleth himselfe crucified concerning the body of sinne his faith in the passion of Christ is but a dead faith and cannot saue him This is the cause why S. Paule faith Rom. 8. That those which are in Christ walke not after the fleshe but after the spirite S. Iohn saith 1. Epistle cha 3. Ye know that he was made manifest to take away our sinnes in him was no sinne Whosoeuer abideth in him sinneth not he that sinneth hath not seene him nor knowne him Ath. Then by that reason yee woulde prooue that all that beleeue in Christ are perfect without sinne I thinke all are sinners Zelot Whosoeuer is borne of God sinneth not 1. Iohn 3. 9. Ath. Is there any man which can saye that hee is without sinne Zelot Not one which liueth in this flesh Ath. Then yee are contrarie vnto your selfe for euen nowe yee sayde That whosoeuer abideth in Christ sinneth not and hée which is borne of God sinneth not and now ye confesse that all are sinners so long as they liue Zelot I am not contrarie vnto my selfe but your blindnesse causeth ye for to thinke so Looke in the Epistle to the Romaines Chapter 7. and there ye shall find how S. Paule coupleth both these things together in himselfe which you iudge to bee so coutrary that by no meanes they may be founde in one man together at one time He confesseth that there was a lawe in his members rebelling against the law of his mind and leading him captiue to the law of sinne And yet a litle before in the same Chapter hee saieth That he did not commit the euill but sinne which dwelt in him The reason which he maketh is that hee did consent vnto the law and would haue doone the good but he did the euill which he hated To make the matter plaine thus it is Saint Paule was regenerate but yet not in full perfection for the remnaunt of sinne did abide in him that which the part regenerate did or coueted to doe or consented vnto that he saith he did and that which the corruption which did still remaine in him forced him for to doe that he saith he did not but sinne which dwelled in him Hee doth esteeme himselfe in the part regenerate he counteth the remnaunts of the old man to be but as excrements or as a dead carion which did abide in him and anoy him His delight and desire was vppon the good he hated the euill and therefore when he did sinne because it was against his consent and against his will it was no obedience which hee gaue vnto it he did not therefore serue sinne neyther did sin raygne ouer him but exercise a certayne â—iranny ouer him which he coulde not speake of Ath. I know not what yée meane when yée haue saide what yée can all must bee sinners Zelot Yee may very easily perswade me to beleeue that ye know not what I meane If your fiue wits were fifteene they woulde helpe nothing in this case Because ye know not what this meaneth yee know not what faith in Christ crucifyed meaneth ye know not what repentaunce meaneth yee can see no difference of sinners all are sinners say you and the death of Christ is that whiche saueth not considering that the death of Christ first killeth those whom it maketh aliue For this cause men are greatlye ouershot oftentimes when they come vnto a sicke man they thinke if he say I beleeue Christe died for my sinnes and shed his blood for me that then all is aswell as may be If it were faith in deed in the blood of Christ they must needes be in good case for al that beleeue in him shalbe saued But they stay vpon a bare fantasie which is a dead weak faith not making them to feele the power of the death of Christe Ignoraunce is so deepely setled in mens mindes that let a man be neuer so wicked neuer so far from true knowledge of God if he can make but some general coÌ„fession they neuer looke further And because they see almost all howesoeuer they liue find this it maketh them also to be carelesse and neuer for to thinke of the newe birth of which Christe speaketh when he sayeth vnto Nicodemus except a man be borne againe he cannot see the kingdome of God This newe byrth is shut out at the doores therefore no doubt God doth shutte them out of his kingdome which make no account of it Ath. Make your selfe neuer so skilfull yet yée cannot tell which man God saueth and which he condemneth Zelot It is not the will of God that wee should take vpon vs for to pronounce vppon any man and to say he is damned because we must leaue the secrete counsell of God vnto himselfe who is not bounde vnto vs to giue any account of his doings But I pray yee let vs a litle consider howe this headlesse bolte of yours is shotte foorth against true godlynesse Thus you reason no man can tell who are saued and who are damned therefore we are not for to care for tryall of our faith and repentance and that therfore the rules which are giuen in the word of God in these points are nothing worth Euery man may searche and know in him selfe whether he be in good case or not and we ought euery one for to trie our selues by that whiche the woord teacheth so plentifully I woulde wishe yee to consider what the cause is why the greatest multitude goe to destruction euen because they knowe not these thinges therefore see not the great danger which they be in but can boldly beare themselues in haÌ„d that they shall doe well enough Manye doe laugh euen in the middest of destruction I meane
Ath. There bee a number goe so farre they cannot tell what they may doe they will not doe as their honest neighbours doe they wilbe wiser then their betters what shoulde they meddle with Gods woorde it maketh â—hembusie in checking euery man It was neuer merry since men vnlearned haue medled with the scriptures Zelot I maruell how far you would go if a man shoulde followe ye yee are like a puddle which the more a man stirreth it the more filthie mud ariseth yee are like a sinke where the more a man stirreth the more is the stink Ath. What meane ye by that Zelot I mean that your heart is full of foule slinking rotten matter which floweth out at your mouth I confesse that those men bee not to be allowed which meddle with that which they should not but I know whom you meane when ye say they goe so farr that they know not what they may doe ye speake of them which seek to know GOD whom ye thinke to be halfe madde Ath. There be some of them which are not book learned what should they doe otherwise then their fathers before them I knew some of their fathers honest men and neuer troubled themselues that way Zelot I did know your mind wel enough for al your spite is against those which learne out of Gods word to know their duety towards the lord because as S. Pet. saith 1. Pe. 4. they do not run with ye to the same exces of riot ye think it strange blasphemy Agayn ye cannot abide to be admonished when ye commit any naughty thing Ye know not that God hath appoynted his word for all sortes of meÌ„ to be instructed in it throughly for the holy Apostles exhort euery where vnto great knowledge in the worde Againe ye know not that which the Lorde coÌ„mandeth in sundrie places that we should admonishe and reprooue one another if any do amisse not as you blind obstinate men which when a man doeth after a godlie manner admonish yee hee is by and by a busie medler what hath he to doe he shall not answere for you And because yee may not doe what lewdnes yee list vncontrolled yee say it was neuer merry since euery man might read the scriptures It is maruellous that men should so become beastes without all vnderstanding Ath. It would not gréeue me to bée reprooued by those which are learned but now euery Iacke wilbe medling Zelot If you be reproued iustly by Gods worde then is it God which doth reproue ye are not to looke vppon the man But when ye call them Iackes and giue them other reproches it is because yee are blinde and can discerne nothing but that whiche is of this worlde For if yee could see how great glorie the poorest true Christian is called vnto to be the child of God yee woulde not reuile those whom God honoureth Ath. They will be medling in smal matters if it were for great saults it were somewhat but a man may not be merrie nowe Zelot Beeyng vtterly blinde and voide of grace yee count those sinnes which are foule and grosse for to bee small swearing rayling talking in your filthie ribaldty singing sowle and beastly songes these and such like are your pety faultes this is your myâ—th whâ—â—n must not bee hindered For it is death to yee to haue any godlinesse spoken of if it be ye cannot bee merry This dunghill mirth is that which men complaine of to be molested and say it was happie in olde time when men were not reproued for such things now there be so many scripture men that a man cannot tell what to say or what to doe Ath. There are none of yée all as holie as yée woulde séeme for to be but haue faultes yée sée not your owne but other mens Zelot Hee which doeth not repente and correct his own vitious nature and striue to obey God is no good reproouer of others But when yee say men seeme to be holy and giue it as a matter of reproch therein yee goe almost beyond the Diuell himselfe for you see that I gainesaie yee or els yee woulde not inure it but yee would euen Powre out your stinking rotten poyson like blasphemous and venemous beastes ye would speake after this manner you that are so full of the spirite you that are Saintes and such like What are you diuelles are yee of the flesh no doubt yee are vntil God conuert ye But we may see how diuelishly men are become wicked when a man cannot make any appearance to be godly and holy but it is reproched as though it were a shameful thing to be led by the spirite For otherwise why do they so obiecte an honest thing to liue after the fleshe a shamefull matter to be guided by the spirite Ath. God helpe vs if none be good but such I hope honest and quiet men shalbe saued as well as they although they cannot talke so well nor runne not to heare Sermons Zelot Nay you would haue others in berter case then they for you iudge them that are zealous in the Gospel and woulde fainest of all other please God to be the worst men and the more carefull a man is to be holy to the Lorde the more he is disdayned and misliked Which doeth euidently shewe that such as you are led by the spirite of the Diuell Yee leade me so from one matter to another that wee are gone from something which ye vttered I remember yee saide yee put your whole trust in God Ath. I sayd so so I say still though I haue no learning yet I trust I beleeue as well as any scripture man of them all Zelot Yee bragge very boldly I pray ye tell me this are yee sure ye shalbe saued Ath. No nor you neyther nor the best of yee all wee muste commit that too God Zelot What is it that yee put all your whole trust in him for Is it not this that GOD hath promised vnto yee eternal life and that yée beleeue he wil performe his promise Ath. That hee doeth loue me and giueth me all thinges Zelot Are yee not sure that hee doth loue yee Ath. I hope he doth loue me but I am not sure Zelot Doeth not the scripture saye that whosoeuer doth trust in him shalbe saued Ath. God sayth so indeede and I beleeue it is so Zelot You knowe doe yee not that yee put your whole trust and beliefe in him Ath. I knowe I doe and I hope I shall alwayes doe Zelot If God can not lie when hee saith all that trust in him shall bee saued and you knowe that yee put your whole trust in him Wherefore doe yee not then knowe that yee shalbe saued Ath. That which God sayth is true for he cannot lie I put my trust in none but in him I hope to be saued what would yée haue more I will beléeue neuer a one of them all when they say they know they shalbe saued I thinke they woulde