Apostle commeth iudgement Here is no colour of shift least except they wil say after death that is when the generall daie of iudgement shall bée And if this might serue then had they somewhat to saye But S. Iohn hath preuented such wrestinge of scriptures After death as he teacheth is immediatly as soone as we be with God for this he writeth Blessed ar the deade which dye in the Lorde from henceforth saith the spirit they rest from their labour No labour abideth any more for them after death immediatlye they are receiued into ioy and their workes doe follow them And this present ioy of the godlye is likewyse specified where the same Apostle writeth that an hundred fourty and foure thousand did stande with the lambe in y e mount Sion meaning the elect which wer w t Christ in his kingdome An hundreth such other places there are in the scripture which testifie of our estate after death and do quite ouerthrowe the Popes purgatory Nowe for the better contentation of the Reader it were worth the labour to answere to al those places of the scripture in which they make so many blinde gesses at purgatory The places are Math. 5.26 c. 12.32 c. 18 34. Luc. 12.59.16.19 l. Co. 3.15 Phil. 2.10 Apo. 5.15 But read these places who list in the feare of God and true desire of knowledge he can by no imaginations haue one gesse at purgatory and yet for the establishing of such a doctrine it had bene requisite they could haue shewed euen the name for the interpretation of other men be they neuer so olde We may saye with the Apostle Euery man aboundeth in his own vnderstanding but no man knoweth the thinges that are Gods saue God alone and his woorde if we will not be deceiued must be our onelye guider But they haue one place 2. Mach. 12.44 in plaine words that it is good to pray for the dead if that booke be of able autority We rede likewise of one Razias an Elder of Ierusalem which first ran vpon his own sworde and when he missed of his stroke he ranne to the top of the wall and threwe him selfe downe among the multitude and yet hauing life in him went to the top of an highe rocke and pulled out his owne bowels and threwe them among the enimies and for this doing he is commended So by the authoritye of the same booke a man maye kill himselfe which Maister Harding him selfe I trowe will not constantly affirme yet this being scripture it might not be doubted Againe the same author saith If I haue done well and as the story requireth it is the thing that I desired But if I haue spoken slenderly and basely it is that I coulde These Iffes and Andes are not of that spirit which hath written the scriptures Thus doubting of his own ability besemeth not the holy ghost Beside this the gréeke in the same place is so corrupt that scarce any sense coulde be made of it And Ioseph ben Gorion out of whom that story semeth to be gathered in the same place doth quite leaue out this praying for the dead But it maye be that in those dayes some ignoraunt Iewes vpon an vnwyse deuotion did thinke it good to praye for the deade and likewise to praye againe vnto them that they would helpe vs. Which if it were so by such meanes this place might come into the Machab. And that some did thinke thus thoughe they were alwayes otherwyse instructed it appereth by one manifest place which is read in Philo Iudeus where he writeth the death of Debora who made a godly exhortatiō to hir people before she dyed For afterward they should finde no repentaunce There some made aunswere vnto hir Ecce nunc mater moreris ora itaque pro nobis post recessum tuum erit anima tua memor nostri in sempiternum Praye for vs after thy departure and let thy soule be mindefull of vs for euer To whom Debora maketh aunswere Adhuc viuens homo potest orare et pro se pro filijs suis post finē autem non poterit exorare nec memor esse alicuius yet while a man is liuing he may pray for him selfe and for his children but whan he is deade he can neyther intreate nor be mindeful of any And it followeth your similitude then shal be like the starres of heauen which are now manifest in you Hereby we sée what iudgement the common people mighte haue in such matters And yet howe the godly did otherwise instruct them reade this place thou shalt finde it so plaine that no wrangling may shift it of but nedes we must confesse that it teacheth vs that we ought neither to praye vnto saintes to help vs neyther yet agayne can we helpe them when they be gone Wherby it appeareth what manner of archer Maister Harding hath ben that could not shoote at so plaine a marke But he did shoote at his own dreames and so he lighted on Purgatorie Yet there follow a great many of markes at the which M. Hardyng could neuer shoote home The first is that the masse and our Communion is one wyth that marke sayth he I was neuer acquaynted Hys loose without doubt is very ill or he shooteth to low a compasse or else he draweth not close For M. Stapleton that shooteth with the same bow and arrowes hitteth this marke euen at the first The Masse and the Communion saith he duelye ministred is all one and it is folly to thinke any contradiction betwéene the Communion and the Masse Thus it appeareth M. Harding is a verye wrangler that wyll not shoote at that marke which his owne fellowes finde An other marke that M. Harding could neuer shoote at is this that Eucharistia doth signifie not the Sacrament but common bread I maruail he could neuer shoote at this marke For sith he began first that babling aunswere to M. Iuels learned Challenge he hath alwaye bene hobbing among those marks wher this is one though he neuer shot at the selfe same yet hath he seldome shot but at such like For it is a marke of slaundering and a marke of lying at whych marke as well in this Reioynder as other where M. Harding most commonly doth shoote very nere I neuer said saith he that Eucharistia was common breade but the sacrament This marke I could neuer sée In déede no maruail for who can well sée the thing that is not But you father this saying vpon Maister Iuell which reporte is all togither vntrue and slaunderous and in shootinge at this marke you drawe maruailous cleane and haue good deliuery be it prickes or rouers you haue measured the ground so oft that you knowe what to shoote But I pray you M. Harding where sayth M. Iuell thus What be his woordes Wher are they to be foūd Thinke you notwithstanding your oft vntrue demeanour that you can discredite your aduersary vpon your bare word The
¶ A SPARING Restraint of many lauishe Vntruthes which M. Doctor Harding dothe chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replie By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie With an answere vnto that long and vncourteous Epistle entituled to M. Iuel and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Hieremie xxiij ¶ The Prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath my worde let him speake my worde faithfully What is chaffe to the wheat saith the Lorde ¶ Imprinted at London by Henry Denham for Humfrey Toy dwelling in Poules Church yarde at the signe of the Helmet ¶ TO THE RIGHT worshipfull Maister Thomas Wotton Esquire Edvvard Dering vvisheth all health and peace in CHRISTâ— AS ofte as I doe consider the estate of man here placed to accomplishe his appointed pilgrimage I remember the saying of the rightuous IOâ— that mannes life is a waâ—fare vpon the earth But when I further see what maner of fight we haue what enimies to encounter with vs howe great of force how cankred of will how subtile in deuise how continuall in assault on the other side how weak we be of our selues â–ª I remember the saying of our sanioure Christ that if it were possible the very electe should be deceiued There is no condition without his enimie no calling without temptation no estate sure The world deceiueth those who will not see that the worlde doth pearishe The fleshe defileth other that think filthinesse to be pleasure and make vnclennesse their felicitie And where these two can not bring forth the shamelesse breache of the law of God there rageth that Dragon and olde Serpent that seducer of the world that liâ—r and father of lyes and he soweth cockle among good corne superstition and heresie among the seedes of obedience and good bâ—hauiour where of it cometh that suche as will not be partakers with SODOME and GOMORRA nor haue felowship with those rotten woundes and stinking sores that make the blaspheming of Gods holy name their honoure yet they should be drowned in wicked doctrine that by some meanes their saluation might be hindred This estate of man so muche the more to be lamented how much the lesse it is regarded would make a Christian minister to muse muche and oftentimes howe he might be a frutefull labourer in Gods vineyarde For sith the children of wrathe doe not cease to walke disobediently and with al care and studie some in example of euill life some in profession of vngodly doctrine doe allure and entice other to walke with them in their open and wide iourney of euerlasting wretchednesse how shall not the children of light according as euery one hath receiued giftes so apply their endeuoure that godlinesse and good religion might call againe the lost children vnto the narow way of euerlasting happinesse The latter dayes are come and impietie dothe abound iniquitie hath so spredde hir selfe that she is plentifull bothe in worde and deede and that not in secrecie only and in priuate assemblies but in the face of the worlde and in open wryting while some preferre the present state before eternall life other delite more in dreames than in the worde of God It behoueth therefore euery true christian in all places to rebuke sinne to set forthe Gods glory in open meetings and to maintaine his worde before the enimie knowing that his rewarde is the saluation of his owne soule and his place is prepared in the kingdome of God his father From this duety neither King nor Queene Duke nor Earle honourable nor other are exempt but euery one as he is higher in dignitie so his accompt is the greater in the day of iudgement It helpeth not the lay man to say he is no minister Where the cause is Gods we are all a chosen generation and a royall priesthode an holy nation and a peculiar people to shew forth his vertue that hath called vs out of darknesse into his maruellous light If we will not walke in this light we abide in darkenesse and in the shadow of death If we will not shew forthe his vertue we are not his chosen generation nor his peculiar people If we haue not his name wrytten in our foreheade we shall not stand among the electe with the Lambe in Mount Syon If we haue not the pleasant smel of life vnto life we haue not Gods gosple engrafted in vs. As many as be Christians haue giuen their faith vnto Christ in their baptisme vnder the witnesse of a great many They haue forsaken the flesh the world and the deuil If they wil now be at league with the sinner and at agrement with the euill doer they haue broken their first promise and they are founde vnfaithfull And for their faith thus violate giuen vnto the immortall God God againe will breake with them his couenaunt of mercie if in time they repent not This made me right worshipfull sir according to the talent which God hath giuen me so in these euill dayes to apply my laboure not doubting but that little light with which he hath endued me by his free mercy may shine through the cloudes and mistes of errour which the prince of this darknesse hath blowne abroade God turne their hearts that builde vpon his euill foundations and God encrease their number that be setters vp of vertue and zealous in the house of the Lord. And of this number bicause God hath made you one of good will desirous and of authority able to defend the profession of a christian man I could not but chuse your worship vnder whose name my little labor should appeare both for a testimonie vnto all men that you are one in whome your countrey doth reioyce and a prouocation vnto other that by your example they might learn to liue Ther be diuers that loue the worde of God and in common talke make a glorious profession but the world wil not let them go vprightly vnto the truth of the gosple There be other whose conuersation is not amisse and in ciuil behauior giue good exaÌ„ple but they be so drowned in error that their estate is very lamentable they be the little flock and few in nuÌ„ber that do ioyne vertue and good religion togither It is hard and laborous to fleshe and bloud and therfore we turne vs froÌ„ it The way is narow wher they are both coupled therfore few do finde it FroÌ„ the princes priuie chaÌ„ber vnto the pore cottage they haue rare dwelling It would make a Christian heart to bleede to consider duely the maners of eche estate The scarlet and purple garmeÌ„ts do hide and couer vnchast and vnpure bodies â–ª The ornaments of gold and siluer are had to beutifie most horrible othes good learning and wisdome are abused to al deceit and craftinesse Simplicitie and plainenesse is a cloke of many subtile cogitations Neede and pouertie are common dwelling places of muche dissolute life Truthe is well nigh forsaken and faith is almost perished from the face of the
naming the holy captain Iosue for the Prophet Ose. fo 98. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fo 100. expresse for represse fol â—od alone hereof for in earth aboue hir fol. 102. but you haue for but your churche hath fol. 104. cansabo for cantabo fol. 111. Antonius for Antoninus And after thou shalt finde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 destruction for distinction could easily for could not easily These and suche other faultes escaped in the printing of my boke as well in the wordes as in the pointing how many so euer thou shalt ascribe vnto me so many iniuries thou shalt doe me He is a simple scholer that can not write truely and the pointing is not so difficult that it requireth any great learning for other things what so euer shalbe founde blame worthy the fault is mine owne and wherein souer the enimy shall finde his fault I doubt not but I shall by Gods grace be able to defend it The force of truth is such that though the patrone be simple yet she will defend hir self especially suche truth as hath made hir selfe so manifest The truthe of God that standeth vpon a hill and may be seene of all men the truth that shineth as a light in a darke place and as the day starre arising in our heartes that truthe whose glorious beautie hath darkned the painted and deceiueable lokes of the purple whore of Babilon It is now no mastery sith we know God to know him that lifteth vp himself against God sith we know Christ to know Antichrist sith we know Peter to know Peters forged successoure And for as much as to this issue al our controuersie is come that what right or authoritie so euer the Pope chalengeth he maketh his whole claime from Peter and the papists themselues will defende him no further but so farre as he succedeth Peter I will speake a little of Peters bishoprike of Rome so farre as the scriptures shall be my warrant Consider thou of it good christian Reader that shall be said and if thou see that all the glorying of Peters being at Rome is but a fasing out of an impudent he then iudge what is their other religion First here I must forwarne thee that as a lie can not long agree with it selfe so in all this matter thou shalt hardly finde in all pointes two popishe chronicles agree togither So that what so euer I wryte as touching the exacte computation of yeres there must needes be many against me Therefore in that I will not striue only I will wryte that which is certaine and shall haue as I said either some warrant of scripture or shall be agreed on by the consent of all ages Our sauioure Christ was crucified for our sinnes the .18 yeare of Tyberius as by all histories it is manifest Peter is said to be put to deathe in Rome the last yeare of Nero so Peter liued after Christ vnder Tyberius .v. yeare Caligula 4. yeare Claudius .13 yeare Nero. 13 yeare In all .36 yeares and odde monthes according to the raigne of the saide Emperoures in these .36 yeares and odde moneths they vvryte of Peter thus He vvas bishop â–ª 4. yeares in the East partes .7 yeares at Antioche and .25 yeares at Rome vvhere at last he died Heere this fable doeth almost bevvray it selfe suche hasty enstallings and so many translatings out of one bishopprike into an other doeth not vvell agree vvith oure sauiours vvordes that they should haue affliction in the vvorlde But let vs searche the scriptures and trie hovve these Bishopprikes vvil stande After that our Sauioure is ascended they goe into Ierusalem all the Apostles togither they choose Mathie the Apostle After fiftye dayes they receiue the holy Ghost Peter conuerteth many After certaine dayes Peter and Iohn goe vppe in to the Temple they heale the lame they are put in prisone they are forbidden to preache anye more in the name of Iesus then they returne vnto the other Apostles and tary many daies togither working many miracles amoÌ„g the people in so much that the Cities round about resorted daily to Ierusalem to haue their sick and diseased healed Then again the Apostles are put in prison and God deliuereth theÌ„ and many dayes they preach in the temple and in euery house After this came a great persecution against the Church at Ierusalem in so much that they were all dispearsed sauing the Apostles Then at the laste after many dayes Peter is sent out of Ierusalem into Samaria where he preacheth in diuers townes about Thus farre good Reader thou seest plainly Peter is no bishop nor yet in any speciall authoritie when the other Apostles sende him out to preache Then he returneth againe to Ierusalem and this is one yeare after the death of our sauioure Christ as the histories do all agree in reporting the conuersion of S. Paule which was nowe done as appeareth Act. 9. This is the yeare of our Lord .35 In the yere of our Lord .38 He dwelleth in Ierusalem Gal. 1.18 Likewise in the yere of our Lorde .46 he is imprisoned at IerusaleÌ„ Act. 12.2 Againe in the yeare of our Lord .48 he is at the councel holden in Ierusalem Act. 15.7 from that day forward he giueth his faith vnto Paule and Barnabas that he will be an Apostle not to the Romaines but to the Iewes Gal. 2.9 vvhich truely he accompliâ—hed euen vntill his death and doubtlesse neuer came at Rome Now christian reader seing the scripture lieth thus that Peters aboade in Ierusalem after the conuersion of S. Paule Anno Domini .35 is recorded .iij. seuerall times And after the last time a couenaunt made that he woulde continue among the Iewes If I shall proue vnto thee that these seuerall times are rightly numbred according to the yeare of the Lorde that is that the first time was the .38 yeare the seconde time the .46 yeare the third time the .48 yeare and then in the meane while betwene the .35 yeare and the .38 likewise the .38 and the .46 and betwene the .46 and .48 that Peter was not in Rome last of all that he was true of his promise and after the .48 yeare came not at Rome then I trust thou wilt confesse with me that Peter was neuer .25 yeares Bishop of Rome But that all poperie as it is in it selfe nothing but lies so it is grounded wholly and altogither vpon lies First it is agreed vpon by all the thing is plaine in it self Paule was conuerted the yere of our Lord .35 TheÌ„ Paule himself writeth thus After three yeres I came to IerusaleÌ„ to see Peter and abode in his house .xv. dayes so this was the .38 yere of our Lord when Peter is first in IerusaleÌ„ When he was after imprisoned at Ierusalem Act. 12.2 that it was the .46 yeare of our Lorde it is proued thus The countreis about â–ª that is Tyre and Sidon were
the Moonke was the messenger Now to quit these negatiues with which M. Harding is so well pleased with like negatiues we may well and truly ouerthrow all popish religion taking example of our sauiour Christes doing For he neuer alowed of their ceremonies He neuer celebrated his last supper alone He neuer ministred in one kinde He neuer made any vniuersall bishop He neuer named Transubstantiacion Masse Mattens Euensong Dirige nor Trentals He neuer went a procession with cope crosse or candlesticke He neuer â—ensed Image nor sang Latin seruice He neuer went to shrift nor sat in confession He neuer preached of Purgatorie nor pardons He neuer honored Saintes nor praied for the dead He neuer fasted Friday Uigil Lent nor Aduent He neuer hallowed Churche nor chalice ashes nor palmes candels nor bels He neuer made holy water nor holy bread He neuer wore Rochet nor Tippet He neuer had Crosse nor Myter Corporas nor Portas shepebooke nor Massebooke Frankincense nor Peterpence wax nor flax nor any such trumperie And therefore by these negatiues we may well conclude that M. Hardings religion is not of Christes institution Harding ¶ Vpon this negatiue it liketh you well to dally and bicause say you it offendeth vs you wyll turne it on our side c. And when you haue made all your turnings you doe as muche for vs as if you gaue a Snake for an Adder c. What proofes we haue and how iustlye we confute your Obiections and Replies let our treatises be examined Dering Maister Iuels negatiue is this that they can not prooue by Scripture Doctour Councell or anye example anye one of these articles which are called into controuersie This negatiue misliketh them Therfore sayth M. Iuell we will take the affirmatiue and prooue their religion not to come from Christes Apostles This I trow is not to dallie but plainlye and vnfainedly to séeke 〈◊〉 the truth Yet saith Maister Harding this is a Snake in stede of an Adder in deede it is true the calling of these articles into question hath stoonge that whorish religion euen vnto death And that Aesculapius Adder that hath lurked so long in Rome for all his quicke sight is by this meanes discouered God be praysed for it for euer and euer Wher Maister Harding saith further let this matter be tried by treatisies I feare not such iudges for sure of all mens doinges their owne lyinges dreamings visions oracles coniurings and such deuises haue giuen their religion the greatest ouerthrowe Hardyng ¶ You report my wordes vntruly as your common maner is making men beleue although I sayd all these articles were of light importaunce c. The lightest of them is of weight to drawe you downe to the rufull state of damned soules if for maintenaunce of your priuate opinion you feare not to breake the vnitie of the church Yet as though I had said what you faslie report me to say you procede and scoffingly demauÌ„d whether ye may thinke that our religion encreaseth and vadeth waxeth and waneth as doth the moone Dering These be Maister Hardings woordes in his Preface to his aunswere Why treate you not of matters of more importance then these be of which yet lye in question betwene the church of Rome and the Protestantes As the presence of Christes bodye and bloude in the Sacrament of Iustification of the value of good woorkes of the Sacrifice of the Masse c. Thys obscure manner of speaking maye séeme to make light of these waightye mattters and therefore who so euer should say so of them deserued litle blame But héere Maister Hardings choler is to much inflamed bicause Maiste Iuell noting their inconstancie asketh whether their Religion encreaseth and vadeth waxeth and waneth as doeth the moone And hath he not thinke you good occasion to aske this question Doeth not Maister Harding saye in many of these articles that they be no keyes of their Religion Yet héere he saith if a man denie them when they be receiued they are of value inoughe to dampne him Where is his wit become What is so contrary to it selfe as this What is waxing and waning What is increasing and vading if this be none And what Christian eares can abide this saying that suche trifels as they be of them selues and such filthy whooredomes as they be now made of should condempne vs if we shoulde speake against them He paide not the price of soules that so easily sendeth them away from ther maister vnto Satan The casting awaie such scourings of the Romish vncleannes shall neuer doo it nay it is a witnesse vnto our consciences that we be the children of the highest Hardyng ¶ Concerning the rest of your aunswere wherin you treat certaine coÌ„mon places vtter much spite against the Pope c. against transubstanciatioÌ„ against inuocation of saints against aultars c. Prayer for the dead you condemne and shew no cause why c. I thinke good to let passe and contemne it Dering Now sure well done maister Harding where you can not reade skip ouer but take good héede least in your lâ—aping you hurt your selfe and do your cause no good If men shal vnderstand that you wil not alow the authority of Pope Nicolaus Pope Leo Pope Boniface Pope Sergius and the common Law all which Maister Iuell alledgeth you shall make the Pope that now is beshrew you and so peraduenture you shal get a curse and you shall make all good Christian people mistrust you Of transubstantiation aultars we will say more héereafter Prayer to saintes is now nighe forgotten You aske in the margine why we doe not aunswere the booke of Purgatory In déede now you come to the point This article is very auncient about .1900 yeares a gone Plato spake of it in his booke de animo where this your cleansing place hath his first ground foundation And therfore for our good and sufficient discharge in this matter I aunswere out of the same booke of Plato We meddle not with your booke of purgatory bicause we feare not our shadowes You know that y e yoÌ„g nouice in Philosophy feared not y e three hedded Cerberus the roring of Cocytus the rolling stone of Sisyphus and how shoulde we feare your painted paper walles of Purgatory Christ is our Sauiour God engraffe in vs a desire to be with him and for my part sith purgatory hath no graunt in Gods woord I recken it scarce woorthy aunswer Yet bicause you ar importune somwhat shall be sayd hereafter Hardyng ¶ You haue piked out or set some a worke to pike out for you all the tearmes and woordes vsed in my booke which a good man may iustly bestow in rebuke of vice vpon euill men c. Dering Héere Maister Harding is fallen into a very shamelesse veine of writing and thinketh good at large to excuse his own modesty The woordes in which he séeketh after it are these Thersites Goliath Heathens Publicanes sacramentaries Lucians scoffers rashe presumtuous ignorant péeuishe and
our aultar which is the onely foode of our soule euen Iesus Christ the righteous And this was figured in the offering of a red Cow whych God commaunded to be giuen to Eleazar the Priest and he should burne hir without the hoste with hir skyn and hir fleshe and hir blood and hir doong And Eleazar the high priest and the inferiour priest that burned hir shoulde washe their clothes and their flesh and be vncleane vntil Euen Likewise he that gathered the ashes of the Cowe should wash his clothes and his flesh and be vncleane vntill Euen No parte of it shoulde be reserued for the Priest whereby we are taught that the sacrifice of our sauiour Christ whereby his people are sanctified must be alone made with out any thinge appertaining either vnto the priest or tabernacle for which cause as S. Paul saith he suffered without the gate Let vs go forth therefore out of the camp bearing his reproch For we haue here no cōtinuing city but we séeke one to come Let vs therefore by him offer sacrifice of prayse alwayes to God that is the fruite of the lippes which confesse his name Let Massings and Massing garments go let the hill altars alone meddle not with Ieroboams golden calues to do it nowe were open blasphemy which before Christes cōming God had cōmaunmaunded our sauiour Christ is the truth it selfe He wyll not be coupled with the Tabernacle which is blinde shadowes Saint Paule maketh a playne seperation of the aultar and the Gospell where he disputeth for the maintenaunce of the Minister Doe ye not know sayth he that they which minister about the holy things eate of the things of the Temple and they which wayte at the aultar are partakers of the aultar So also hath the Lord ordeyned that they which preache the Gospell should lyue of the Gospell Which argument of the Apostle had not bene well gathered if the aultars shoulde haue bene in the Christian congregations The fourth heresie that is founde in this popish article is this that Christ is offered againe vnto his father S. Paule sayth no man taketh this honour vnto him but he that is called of God euen as was Aaron But no title in the woord of God that giueth vnto a mortall man this authority therefore they may not claime it And our sauiour Christ sayth to the Samaritan woman Beleue me the houre is come when neyther in Ierusalem neyther in this hill you shall worship the father but the true worshippers shall worship in spirite and verity For the father requireth euen suche to worship him God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth But if Christ were really offered vp to his father there were a truer woorship than the worship of the spirite Againe S. Paule saith let them haue mysterium fidei the mysterye of faith in a pure conscience He would◠doubtles haue saide mysterium sacrificij the mystery of this sacrifice of Christ shoulde yet oftener haue ben offred And S. Iames faith pure religion and vndefiled before God euen that father is this to visite the fatherles and widdowes in their aduersity and to kéepe him selfe vnspotted of the world But Maister Harding saith thus Our Religion must haue a sacrificing of Christ vnto his father and therfore we are assured that Maister Hardinges Religion is not pure and vndefiled The scriptures are full of such places which teach vs how to please God and take holde of saluation But in all those places no such sacrificing of Christ is mencioned and therfore to fancie any such imaginations is neither to please God nor to walke in that way which leadeth to saluation If this be not sufficient which is sufficient to a christian man we haue besides most certaine proofe which by no meanes can be coloured S. Paule saith where there is remission of sins there is no more offering for sinne but Christ hath alreadye forgiuen vs all our trespasses and put out the hand writing of ordinaunce which was against vs. c. And as saynt Peter sayth we are redeemed with the precious bloud of Christ as of a Lambe vndefiled and without spot And therefore Christ is not now offered for sinne And here appeareth moreouer the fift heresie in M. Hardings proposition For if Christ be not offered to his father neither any oblation for sinne is remayning then is there now no propitiatorie sacrifice but onely one which God hath already made vpon the aultar of the crosse And that this should be but once made it appeareth for that Aaron might but once in the yeare goe into the holy place within the vaile before the mercy seate where he made attonement for him selfe and for his house So speaketh S. Iohn of the sacrifice once made meaning it alone to be propitiatorie If any man sinne we haue an aduocate wyth God the father Iesus Christ the iust and he is the propitiation for our sinnes he maketh intercession before hys father he is not sacrificed on the altar Againe he sayth herein is loue not that we loued God but that he loued vs and sent his Sonne to be a propitiation for our sinnes When Christ made this propitiatorie sacrifice he was sent of his father and he was sent but once euen than as S. Paule sayth when the fulnesse of time was come Now is the time of his imbassage done He hath satisfied the law of God first toward his father in that he was obedient vnto death euen vnto y e death of the crosse thā toward his brethern in that he had that great loue that he gaue his life for his friendes from hence forth he ceaseth from that legacy and sittes at the right hande of his father in glory and maketh continuall intercession for vs. Therfore nowe his father doth no more send him and he wil not againe be sacrificed This is ynoughe if we were not dull of hearing to take from vs these vngodly deuises concerning any other propitiatory sacrifice than that which is already made But M. Harding and his fellowes that can so well peruerte the scriptures of God they haue many shiftes to defende their owne fancies This our sacrifice say they is no newe sacrifice but the same which Christ made yet Saint Paule saith it was one oblation and semel peracta but once made To this againe they aunswere that it was but once made bloudy but theirs is vnbloudy But the Apostle saith Absque sanguinis effusione non sit remissio without sheding of bloude there is no remission of sinnes what than auaileth this vnbloudy sacrifice But they saye further it is an application of the death of Christ. But the Apostle proueth that the sacrifices of the lawe were vnperfite bicause in them was a remembrance againe of sinnes euery yeare so there is now no such kinde of application They cannot possible so turne their deuises but the Apostle must
matter that M. Iuell nameth him Zazius in steede of Lazius as who say that euery man must not néedes knowe Wolfangus Lazius that hath séene Abdias False printing can not blame the author where wrangling is not in place Lazius sayth eyther Saint Luke borrowed hole stories of Abdias or Abdias of S. Luke By this it appeareth Lazius is well content if you thinke S. Luke borrowed his writing of him Nowe for the more contempt of so vaine and fonde a saying Maister Iuell may well report his wordes absolutelye and ought not for that to bée blamed with vntruth Yet let vs admit that Lazius saying were sufferable I aske of M. Harding how a disiunctiue proposition may be improued without affirming or denying one certaine part Besides this it is no newes to Wolfangus Lazius to speake sometime at randome when he should speake truth He hath other wheres many absurdities and some both slaunderous and odious to rehearse ywis by good account a man may easily finde more lyes in his bookes than frier Furius can chalenge in Sleydaines commentaries but let them go For this present matter Maister Iuell eyther in contempt of this vaine imagination or for the more appearaunce of so great an absurdity without any suspicion of vntrue dealing may before all good men report these wordes as he doth The. B. of Saris. He maketh many shamelesse lyes and sayth that he was present with Christ and at most part of the Apostles doings Harding The .26 vntruth He sayth not so Dering If we marke M. Iuels wordes well we shall sufficientlye be forewarned As touching these vntruthes he maketh saith Maister Iuell many shamelesse lyes and sayth he was present at the Apostles doings Here maister Harding can challenge no vntruth concerning Abdias shamelesse lying but for his presence at the most of the Apostles doing that saith he is nothing so Let vs take that which by silence M. Harding confesseth and then if Abdias haue many shamelesse lyes how can he further Maister Hardings Masse or if he haue not why is it not noted for an vntruth By like he thought that by speaking nothing of Abdias lies they might be forgotten and by calling them to tryall Abdias should be quite shamed For my part I meane not to meddle with them they are mo in number then in short time may be recited Onely I aduertise thée to reade the booke due tryall shall be surest iudge As touching this present vntruth whether he were cōuersant with the Apostles or no it maketh no great matter what skilleth it what he was or what time he liued It is smale credit to Esopes fables that the author liued in king Croesus dayes Yet for maister Hardings pleasure let vs sée this vntruth He sayth not sayth maister Harding that he was present at most of the Apostles doings I aunswere that it is not necessary to be very scrupulous in reporting of Abdias his wordes it is more then he deserueth if we vouchsafe to recite his meaning Thus much maister Harding and Abdias do say that he was the Apostles scholer that he was present at the death of Saint Andrew and Saint Thomas at the doings of Simon and Iude which were all Apostles and of all this is it much if we say that he was present at the most of the Apostles doinges Such is this Abdias He hath deserued yll maister Hardings friendship His credite is so little that he can not further hys priuate Masse His doings are so vnreasonable that they can not be defended without shame But the prouerbe is verified like will to like An ill cause hath most ground in vnsufficient witnesse and an ill patrone is best content with vnable authoritie The. B. of Saris. It may be gathered by Saint Augustine in sundrie places that some part of this booke was written by certaine heritikes called the Manichees Harding The .27 vntruth Saint Augustine hath no such thing of Abdias Dering This vntruth is little worth and soone aunswered It may be gathered sayth Maister Iuell But saint Augustine speaketh not of Abdias saith M. Harding It is true in déede saint Augustine doth not name him for if he did there neded thē no gathering The thing were plaine It is an easie thing to find many vntruthes if we make our aduersary to say what wée list Whether Augustine meane of Abdias or no that shall bée séene in y e next vntruth Here is nothing affirmed but that he may séeme to meane him that this may be gathered M. Har. denieth not That Abdias is ment it must appeare by the next vntruth So either maister Harding maketh two vntruthes of one as his maner is or here speaketh nothing to the purpose as he commonly vseth The B. of Saris. For he reporteth the fables of Saint Thomas of Saint Mathew of Saint Andrew of the Lyon that slue the man that had striken Saint Thomas of the dog that brought the same mans hande to the table of Maximilla wife vnto Egis and other like tales euen in such order as they be set foorth by this Abdias Harding The .28 vntruth Saint Augustine nameth not Mathevve The .29 vntruth He nameth not Andrevv The .30 vntru He speaketh not of Maximilla vvhich Abdias ment Dering M. Hardings vntruthes amount not yet to his mind Therfore he thinketh it not amisse to quote them a little faster vpō which aduice he maketh thrée in one periode he might as wel haue sayde S. Augustine mentioneth not these stories and so haue made but one saue that he loueth not such plaine dealing But the matter is not great as short an aunswere will serue for all as if they had béene but one Saint Augustine nameth not Mathevv nor Andrevv Marke good reader this vntruth Maister Iuell sayth Saint Augustine telleth the tales of Mathevv and Andrevv and so he doth let the booke be the iudge Maister Harding sayth S. Augustine nameth them not neyther doth maister Iuell saye he nameth them take away this much wrangling and here is no vntruth at all But this we haue to note by the way for the better credite of maister Hardings Abdias that Saint Augustine condemneth those tales for lyes which Abdias telleth for a certaine truth Concerning y e tale of Maximilla wife to Aeges which maister Harding saith is not reported in the same sort by Abdias as it is by Saint Augustine first we must knowe both Augustine and Abdias meane the same woman as shall appeare in y e .31 vntruth Then Augustine speaketh of hir as of a foolish vaine tale Abdias speaketh of hir doings as of true and weightie stories Thus it appeareth though Saint Augustine doe not name the parties yet he agréeth in the tales and when this shall be knowne the .27 vntruth shall be iustified That it may be gathered Saint Augustine meaneth of Abdias these thre latter vntruthes which are but the proufe of Maister Iuels coniectture shall appeare so good that before the true christian reader the quoting of