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A31663 An impartial account of the Portsmouth disputation with some just reflections on Dr. Russel's pretended narrative : with an abrigdment of those discourses that were the innocent occasion of that disputation / by Samuel Chandler, William Leigh, Benjamin Robinson. Chandler, Samuel.; Leigh, William.; Robinson, Benjamin, 1666-1724. 1699 (1699) Wing C1933; ESTC R24745 96,620 125

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in his Sermons But because the main stress of the Anabaptists cause in this pointlys upon it We shall not satisfy our selv●s ●o have gravel'd them in the Disputation whe● we deny'd bo●● parts of the Argument as they form'd it neither of which they were able to prove But for the help of such as need 〈◊〉 Shall set this matter in a clear Light In order ●o which let it be consider'd 1. It is one thing for us t● be ●uried with Christ in Baptism and another ●●ing for Baptism to rep●esent a Burial The former the Apostle says The ●●ter only Dr. Russel and his Brethren We are as the Apostle largel● T●at Rom. 6.3.4.5.6 Baptiz'd into Christs Death Buried Resu●rection That is we are solemnly enter'd into the Christian Covenant which is founded in and secur'd by 〈◊〉 Death● Bu●●● and Resurrection of our Lord Which thereupon most strongly obliges us to Die unto Sin rise to and walk in new●ess 〈◊〉 Life But where doth he say a Syllable to intimate that our Baptism must represent these things Our Baptism is to oblige us hereto● and is accordingly urg'd by the Apostle for that purpose throughout this context But we would beg any one to shew us any Intimasion that our Baptism is to represent these things 2. And if Baptism must represent these things it must represent all as well as any of them There is at least as great if not greater evidence from the Context That the Death of Christ the manner and likeness of it as that the manner of his Burial should be Represented in our Baptism For besides that we are said to be Baptiz'd into is D●ain v. 3. we are also said to be planted in the likeness of is Death v. 5. whereupon v. 〈◊〉 it follows our Old Man is Crucify'd with him But we are no where said to be planted in the likeness of his Burial Now what is there in your Administration that doth represent the likeness of Christs Death his Crucifixion By the same Reason that you would prove dipping necessary in Baptism a Papist or any other Person may prove crossing necessary too and therefore the same Answer will Inva●dat● both i. e. that neit●er of them are requir'd to be represented 3. 'T is as Trifling what he adds pag. 39. where he says Mr. Chandler grants that Baptism doth signify a Burial and Resurrection Mr. Chandler only suppos'd did not grant it Besides if he had granted it it would not thence follow that it must necessarily be by dipping For 1. In our way by pouring water on the Face we represent Christs Death the pouring out of his Blood and Soul His Burial The Face the Principal part of Man being put under-water or having water poured on it as Earth is poured on a Dead Body His Ressurrection When the Child is taken up and deliver'd again to its Parents or Offerers This is a sufficient Allusion in Christian Sacraments which are Commemorative of what is past and there needs not a more exact Resemblance Na● it is as significant as breaking Bread and pouring out Wine to Represent the Sacrific'd Body and Blood of Christ. 2. If they will keep strictly to the Significancy of a Burial the person to be Baptiz● must not walk into the water but be taken up by the Baptizer and cast down into it For indeed there is only this difference between our way and theirs We Baptize the Face and they Baptize the head and shoulders too Unless the Person going down into the Water may be said to baptize himself And then there are more Se-Baptists among them than we ever understood before 3. The Anabaptist● in Holland●●e ●●e to sensible of the no necessity of Dipping that the general way among them at Amsterdam is to baptize by pouring Water upon the Head We need not send Dr. Russel cross the Sea● as he would us to the Turks Seragllo but to a place better known the Amsterdam Coffee-house to enquire into the Truth of this We would only here ask the Dr. these Two Civil Questions 1. Whether he might not have spar'd all his Dutch seeihg Doope in that Language signifies only to wash and is us'd when they only pour on Water 2. Whether his Anabaptist Friends at Amsterdam do practice a Right Baptism If not whether he would Baptize them again or exclude them from the Church of Christ as he doth us in his Closing Prayer of which more Anon If he owns their Baptism Lawfull Then why such a C●amour and Noise about a Circumstance If their way is Justifiable so is ours 13. How Egregiously doth he Trifle when he tells us that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 when it is joyn'd with an Accusative case signifys into All that we can know from thence is what we well knew before that tho' this Man pretends to be a dignify'd Dr yet he hath not the Learning of a Common School Boy When 't is joyn'd with an Accusative Why pray Dr. what other case doth it any way admit We had thought 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Soli accusativo jungitur had been a Rule no one could have missed that had but once cast his Eye on the Common Grammar Well Sir If you have any regard to your Reputation we would advise you never more to pretend to Greek and do not make too great a Noise about your degrees it will but expose you to the greater contempt You had better do as Mr. Williams did own your Ignotance and not Ambitously gape after the Name and Honour of a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 14. As to his Humane Testimonys They are of little value with us for the Reasons given in the Disputation And it was an Evidence of the wretched weakness of his cause that these must stand instead of an Argument with him These Testimonys he hath chiefly borrow'd from Danvers and how Imperfectly and lamely they are quoted may be seen in Mr. Wills and Mr. Baxters Answers to him So that to wast time and Paper about them is but actum agere We shall therefore only put these following querys to him 1. Will you stand by the Authority of these Men in other Matters If not why would you have us in this 2. Do any of these say that to wash is not the New Testament sense of the word Baptize Or do any Answer those places we brought Or prove us in the wrong Or how many places can any bring where it necessarily signifys to dip We take not Mens Opinions upon Trust but Trial. 3. How few are there of those Learned Authors who have not adher'd to that in Mat. 12.7 I will have Mercy and not Sacrifice To Justify their Baptizing with a little Water in these Cold Countreys 4. Will not the Opinion and Practice of your Brethren in Holland argue as strongly against you as the Opinions of these Men had their Practice been dipping also do against us 5. Will not the Opinion and Practice of so many Thousand Men great for Learning and Piety at
in a Fish Pond Overwhelm'd with the Holy Ghost But to this I Answer it was the sound that fill'd the House and not the Cloven Tongues of Fire which were the Emblems of the Holy Ghost and sure they were not Overwhelm'd wi●h these but that promise was made good I will pour out my Spirit Acts 2.17 Now the pouring out of the Spirit is frequently represented by pouring out water Is. 44.3 But several Scriptures are pretended for dipping the most material are these 1. Mat. 3.16 Iesus went up out of the water I Answer he might acording to the Practice of those times go into the Water to wash his Feet foul with Travelling and Iohn might pour Water on his Face but the Greek word may be render'd he went up from the Water The like Answer may be given to Mar. 1.9 Iesus was Baptiz'd of Iohn in Iordan It doth not prove his whole Body was plung'd there Nay 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 frequently signifys to and if we compare this place with Mat. 3.13 Iesus came from Nazareth of Galilee to Iordan to be Baptized of Iohn So here we may read the words with a Parenthesis And Iesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was Baptiz'd of Iohn to Iordan 2. Another Scripture is Ioh. 3.23 Iohn Baptized in Enon because there was much Water there I Answer much Water may be meant not of depth but length many streams and Rivulets where Iohn and his Disciples might conveniently together Baptize or pour Water on the Multitudes 3. Another Scripture is Acts 8.38 where Philip and the Eunuch are said both to go down into the Water whence some would infer that the Eunuch was dip'd I Answer they might only go down to and come from the Water So the Greek may be render'd the Water running in the valleys B●t if Men will insist on the letter of the Text Phillip must dip himself as well as the Eunuch for they both went down Or they might go ankle deep and Philip might pour Water on his Head or Face either of these interp●etations are probable and therefore it cannot Necessari●y be prov'd he was dipt besides the unlikelihood that he was dipt on a Journey when perhaps he might have no cloaths to change 4. The Principal Scripture they boast of is Rom. 6.4 Being Buried with Christ in Baptism Whence they argue B●p●ism must represent a Burial therefore the whole B●dy must be cover'd with Water This Text we have given a distinct Answer to in our Reflections on Dr Russel Chap. 2. Refl 12.13 therefore thither I Refer the Reader and shall only say here 1. It is no where said that Baptism represents Christs Burial but only that we are oblig'd to conform our selves thereby to Christs Death Burial and Resurrection to die to Sin and rise again to newness of Life This we do whatever ri●e be us'd 2. In our way if that will satisfy there is a Representation of Christs Death the pouring out of Water denoting the pouring his Blood or Soul of his Burial as the Face the Principal part of the Body is put under the Water of his Resurrection when the Child is taken up and deliver'd again to its Parents or O●●erers 3. If they will keep strictly to the Significancy of a Burial the Person to be Baptiz'd must not walk into the Water but be taken up by the Baptizer and cast down into it for indeed the difference between our way and theirs is only this we Baptize the face and they Baptize the head and shoulders too 4. Metaphors must not be stretched too far and let our Brethren take heed how they stretch this Expression so as to Justify the Practice of others that differ from them you read v. 6. our Old Man is Crucify'd with Christ. H●●ce the Romanists infer the Necessity of Crossing in Ba●●ism let not the Metaphor therefore be stretch'd too ●ar 5. There are many more Scriptures that have an Allusion to Sprinkling or pouring Water on the Face thus we r●ad Is. 44.3 I will pour Water on him that is thirsty c. which is Interpreted of Gods pouring out his Spirit and Blessing on the seed of Believers So Heb. 10.22 Having your Hearts Sprinkled from an Evil Conscience and your Bodys wash'd with pure Water And many other places So that our way most fairly Represents the Death Burial and Resurrection of Christ together with the Application of his Blood and Spirit and the Anabaptists of Amsterdam are so sensible of this that they Generally Baptize by pouring Water upon the Head 4. There is great probability if not certainty that many were not dip'd in Scripture times Particularly Acts 2.41 we read of 3000 Baptiz'd in part of a day And this was at Ierusalem where there were no Rivers but only the Brook Cedron Besides these were either dipt naked or with their Cloaths if Naked this would be an unseemly sight and look as if they were full of New Wine indeed tho' by the way I think that part that is Baptiz'd ought to be Naked to Represent our Nakedness before God if with their Cloaths this would be as strange for it cannot be expected they brought Cloaths with them at that Juncture and it would have been very unseemly to see so many Persons come out of the Water in such a condition and go down to their Houses which might be at a great distance not to mention that it was hardly possible for the 12 Ap●s●les if we should add the 70 Disciples to them 〈◊〉 y●●●he Text mentions not to dip 3000 in so sho●t a time they had need have brawny Arms and an Here●●●an strength to do this Again we read A●ts 9. ● 18 that Saul after 3 days fasti●g w●s Baptiz●d by Ananias we read not that he wen● out of the Ho●●e nor is it probable that God who will have Mercy and not Sacrifice would at that time require he should be plung'd in Cold Water which might Prejudice his Health o● Life Again Acts 16.33 The Jaylor and all his were Baptiz'd at midnight 'T is unlikely they went to a River at that time 5. It is not the quantity of Water but the quality that is Significant As in the other Sacrament we are Commanded to Eat Bread and drink Wine in Remembrance of Christ So in this to be wash'd in the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost and as in the other it is not said what quantity of Bread we shall Eat or Wine we shall Drink So neither in this after what manner the Water shall be apply'd whether by dipping Sprinkling or pouring Water on the Face It might be equally pretended that we must Eat and Drink plentifully at the Lords Table because this best sets forth a Feast as it is call'd 1 Cor. 5.8 or Eat a whole Loaf to represent our partaking of Christs fulness and receiving from him Grace for Grace there is as much Necessity for this as for dipping to represent our Burial with Christ. But as a small bit of
notwithstanding little differences to reconcile and bring nearer to each other the Pious and Sober on both sides To which end we shall first mention to you how far and wherein we apprehend we are agreed And thence manifest in the second place how inconsiderable the things are about which we differ I. We are agreed without doubt in every thing that is of absolute necessity to salvation This is as certain as that there are Christians that are truly such on both sides that there are those that shall be sav'd on both sides Nothing that does Essentially constitute Christianity is controverted betwixt us And even with reference to this very point of Baptism we are verily perswaded there is a nearer agreement betwixt the truly Pious and Serious on both sides than is commonly consider'd Particularly 1. It is it must needs be agreed by all such that there is no possibility of salvation for any Soul in our Apostate World but only in and thro' Christ Act. 4.12 2. 'T is also agreed that the Covenant of Grace does fix the terms upon which Christ will be a Saviour to any That thence only it is to be known whom he will save and whom he will not be a Saviour to 3. 'T is also undeniably plain and what cannot but be agreed amongst us that according to the Constitution of that Covenant Christ will be the Saviour of none but such as are sincerely devoted to God He never was nor will he ever be the Saviour of any others but such he has alw●ys b●en a Saviour to Ier. 31.33 Psal. 119.38 Heb. 7.25 Upon these Principles it is that every serious Soul does devote it self to God in hope And we doubt not but you are also agreed with us 4. That such who are Sollicitous about their own salvation cannot be unconcern'd about the State of their Infants Every Pious Parent will under the apprehension of that Guilt and Corruption which they inherit with their Nature with enlarged Affections yearn over their tender little ones and earnestly cry to God for 'em and gladly lay hold upon ●●y word of hope concerning ' em Those amongst you who are Parents feel and know what is the heart of a Parent towards its Child And however you are as all that are truly Christians are unf●ignedly concern'd for and desirous to promote the common salvation yet for your Infants that are so near you that are as it were parts of your selves you feel yet another kind of con●ern You cannot with any satisfaction die from 'em you can't when they are dying part with 'em unless ●ou hav● some ground of hope concerning 'em Nor can any thing afford you Encouragement to hope without som● word of Promise Nor is there any word of Promise only to such as are devoted to God and i● Coven●nt wi●h him in and thro' Christ To be with●ut Christ without hope and without God in the W●rld is represented as the Case of such as are out of Covenant with him strangers to his Covenant Eph. 2.12 W●erefore 5. ●e d●ubt not but you are also agreed with us that we shou'd do all that in us lies that our Infants may be in C●venant ●ith G●d You do desire as well as we t●●t they may be so and we are persw●ded you will do whate●●r you are satisfy●d is your D●t● in order to it You w●ll nay we doubt not but you do pray earnestly for ' e● and 〈◊〉 ●is Promise with him that he will b● your ●od and the God of your Seed and depen●ing upon this promise you do actually surrender and devote 'em to him and look upon your selves as oblig'd to educa●● and train 'em up for him c. This is what those that are seriously Religious amongst you do and dare not but do Nor is any part of this a Controversie betwixt you and us Now here is the internal and most excellent part of Baptism in which we are agreed After which 't is somewhat to be wonder'd at that there shou'd be any remaining difference as to this matter However that which can after such Agreements remain a Controversie must needs be concluded to be of an inferior and less concerning Nature Which we now therefore come to speak to II. The things in which we differ from what has been already said appear to be no fundamental ones Which will also yet farther be manifested if the things themselves be particularly consider'd That which is the Subject of the ensuing Papers and which is commonly agitated betwixt you and us may be reduc'd to these two heads viz. 1. Whether we may and ought to devote our Infants to God in the Ordinance of Baptism And 2. Whether in the Administration of it we be oblig'd to dip the Person wholly under Water As to both which it must be own'd we are yet disagreed You judging the Ordinance of Baptism which we apply to Infants not to belong to 'em And while we apprehend sprinkling it self especially pouring a little water upon the Face of a Person or dipping his Face alone in water to be Lawful in the Administration of this Ordinance you suppose we are ob●ig'd to dip or plunge the Person wholly into water And while there is a difference in our apprehensions it must also be concluded that on one side or the other there is cert●inly a mistake But tho' there be a mistake suppose it to be on your side or on our's 't is far from being a damning one 1. We will first as we think we have just reason suppose the ●istake to be with you yet we dare not nor do A●count it a fatal or undoing one Those of your way that agree with us as above and all the Pious and Sober p●rt ●f you we take it for granted do do only differ from us in a Circumstance You agree with us that your Infants are to be enter'd into Covenant with God in Christ and seriously devoted to him c. You only doubt whether it may be done in this Ordinance Now tho we are perswaded that they shou'd not only be enter'd into Covenant but also that this solemnity of Baptism shou'd Accompany and add force to the surrender we make of 'em to God Yet we do not Account it so absolutely necessary as if the salvation either of the Parent or Child were suspended on it We read indeed that Baptism saves us 1 Pet. 3.21 But the Apostle to prevent mistake immediately explains himself and tells us he does not intend it of the External Ceremony but of the Answer of a good Conscience Our unfeigned consent to the Baptismal Covenant for our selves and for those that we have Power to consent and accept it for and our sincere devoting our selves and them in that Covenant to God in Christ is indeed necessary to theirs and to our own salvation and this is that Answer of a good Conscience which the Apostle calls for But where this is found tho' the External Ceremony shou'd be omitted whether thro' the
mistake of the Parent or thro' the absence of a Minister we don't think God will nor are we any of those who dare pass a sentence of Death in such a Case And for the point of dipping we reckon it to be yet much less material The necessity of it we do indeed oppose and doubt not but the Ordinance of Baptism so far as concerns this Controversie is Lawfully Administer'd if water be apply'd to a Person in any other way or manner so it be done with the awful and solemn mention of the Name of the Father Son and Holy Ghost But yet supposing it be so order'd that the Life of the Person be not hazarded by it nor any breach made upon the Rules of modesty we do not Condemn the Practice of Dipping And in those two Cases all that are truly Pious amongst your selves must upon deliberation needs disallow it as well as we 2. And now we will suppose the mistake to be on our part We make no difficulty of it to own that we are fallible As wise and good Men as we are nay far wiser and better than we have been mistaken and 't is no wonder if in many things we be so Nay we doubt not but in some things at least we are so because we are Men Tho' we do not know that in any Principle of Religion we are so for that we dare not knowingly Err Wherein soever we are convinc'd of a mistake we do and we are willing to retract it But we may be in an errour and may not know it And we will for a while suppose tho' we have never yet seen reason to grant that as to the matters in difference betwixt you and us we are under a mistake Yet neither can the mistake on our side endanger the Foundations supposing we shou'd be mistaken For As to the Point of Infant-Baptism if it shou'd prove to be a mistake 't is only a Circumstantial one a mistake as to the time of Administration This is the worst that can be made of it if we shou'd be mistaken And where is the damage supposing we shou'd be too early laid under the most-solemn Bonds to be the Lords Tho' by the way we see not how this can be done too soon We do not we dare not rest upon our having been baptiz'd in Infancy as if that wou'd of it self save us We do indeed reckon it to be Valid Baptism and that we do not need to be Baptiz'd again when we become Adult but we don't think our Infant-Baptism will stand instead of Regeneration or exempt us from the necessity of Faith Repentance or a life of serious Holiness when we are Adult Nay we look upon our selves by Vertue of that Baptism to lie under unalterable Bonds and Obligations hereunto And now tho' it shou'd be suppos'd we are under a mistake as to the time when this Ordinance shou'd be Administred yet can it have no hurtful influence upon us or upon any of those great and important Principles of Christianity in which we are agreed Or again if you suppose us also mistaken as to the manner of application while we do not as you dip or plunge the Person baptiz'd wholly under water but only apply a small quantity of water to 'em most commonly by Pouring it upon their Faces Yet neither can this surely if a mistake be by you Accounted a very dangerous one No part of serious Religion can be thought to be endanger'd by it The Kingdom of Christ does not consist in Dipping so as that he that is Dipp'd shall be sav'd and he that is not Dipp'd shall be Damn'd You your selves dare not lay so great a stress upon it What! Shall a Soul that is truly Penitent and with serious Actings of Faith and Love gives up it self to God in Christ a Soul that resolvedly lies at his Foot that will not wickedly depart from him Can you think such a Soul shall yet be rejected by him meerly because in their Baptism they were not Dipp'd under water This is what upon serious deliberation we are perswaded none of you dare avow III. Now then since it appears that the matters in contest betwixt you and us at least amongst the Pious and Sober on both sides are so inconsiderable and comparatively small we wou'd make it the matter of our earnest request to you that they may accordingly be own'd and look'd upon by you do not enhance or over-rate the Value of 'em By this means a happy ●utual agreement might most probably be effected however all the ill effects of our remaining disagreements wou'd be prevented or rem●v'd 1. No way more likely than this to promote an Agreement amongst us Apprehensions that the differences are greater and the mistakes more dangerous than they are do naturally influence both si●e to ●ook with strangenest upon each other and prejudice 'em against what is or may be offer'd on either side But were it rightly consi●er'd how little the difference is it wou'd yet tend to ●ake it less by softening minds on each side and preparing 'em with greater impartiality to entertain whatever convincing evidence is laid before ' em Or 2. If it wou'd not remove our differences themselves it wou'd at least prevent all the ill effects of 'em For instance why might we not love and live like Christians notwithstanding the remaining differences in our Opinions Wh● might we not pray with and for each other Wh● might we not according to the Rule of the Gospel look favourably upon each others mistakes and receive each other to Love and Communion avoiding doubtful disputations Rom. 14. throughout the Chapter We solemnly declare we are ready thus to receive you we dare not but receive all whom we are perswaded our Lord himself will receive Let there not be a breach maintain'd on your Part while we impose no sinful or so much as suspected Term of Communion on you Or supposing upon one or other mistake you shou'd think fit to separate your selves from us from our Assemblies yet at least we beg you wou'd in your distinct Assemblies see to it that the great and uncontroverted Principles of Christianity may be ordinarily and with greatest warmth and earnestness insisted on and let not your Heat and Zeal be laid out upon the little things in which we differ Let your endeavours be rather to make Men Christians than to make 'em Antipaedobaptists and shew that you prefer the interests of our common Lord before those of your particular Party For a close we would leave those Words of the Apostle with you Phil. 3.15 16. Nevertheless wherein we have already attain'd let us walk by the ●ame Rule let us mind the same things And if in any thing ye ●e neve● 〈◊〉 minded God will reveal even this unto you B. Robinson S. Chandler W. Leigh AN INTRODUCTION MUST I again be call'd out to engage in this irksome and unpleasing Controversy Who had much rather spend my time in healing differences and