holy spirite after a wonderfull and vnspeakeable manner But it is a daintie matter that Sander vppon the wordes of Saint Paul ye cannot be partakers of the table of our Lorde and of the table of Diuels saith Our â—ewe brethren granting the diuels a reall table will â—ot allowe anie such to Christ. What meaneth our olde enimie thus to bable in his instrument and spokesman Nicholas Sander Doe not wee allowe Christ a reall and visible table wheron the visible sacrament is ministred If he meane that Christ is really present at his table as the diuells are at their table let him aduise himselfe whether they that are partakers of the diuels table are incorporate to the diuell by eating the diuell actually into their bodies or by communicating with his idolatrous ceremonies if onely by the latter what neede haue we of his often vrged reall presence to bee made partakers of the Lordes table and to bee incorporated vnto him When for a sacramental coniunction the ceremonie is sufficient for a true incorporation the spirit of God onely bringeth it to passe both with the sacramentes and without them in euery one of Gods electe which is a member of Christ. CPAP. VI. The reall presence is prooued by the example which Saint Paul vseth concerning the Iewes and Gentiles First he would prooue that the Christians haue a sacrifice because Saint Paul vseth the examples of the sacrifices of the Iewes and Gentiles but he seeth not the analogie S. Paul coÌ„pareth not the sacrifice of the Christians with the sacrifice of the Iewes and Gentiles but yâ— feast of the sacrifice of the Christians with the feastes of the sacrifices of the Iewes Gentiles Nowe the Lordes supper is the feast of the onely sacrifice of Christ once offered by him which maketh vs to communicate with his sacrifice if we receiue it worthily as the feasts of the Iewish and idolatrous sacrifices made the partakers coÌ„municate with their sacrifices them to whom thei are offered And whereas the Apostle saith we haue an altar wherof they haue no power to eat that serue in the tabernacle he meaneth that the ceremoniall Iewes can haue no participation of the sacrifice of Christ except they renounce their Iewish obseruations Or if you wil vnderstand it of such sacrifices of praise as the Apostle within fewe lines after speaketh or of the Lords supper which is a remembrance of Christs onely sacrifice as some haue done the cause of the real presence is neuer awhit holpen Yes saith Sander This then being the meat of our altar it followeth that this meat is no lesse present vpon his holy table then that which the Iewes or Idolaters did eate was present aâ— their sacrifices but that which they did partake was really preseÌ„t and receiued into their mouthes Therfore likewise Christes fleshe is really present and receiued into our mouthes I denie the minor or assumption of this syllogisme For the diuels wherof the Gentiles did partake were not really present in the meate which they did eate nor receiued into their mouthes The like I say of the altar of the Iewes wherof they were partakers which did eat of the sacrifice Wherfore this argument may be rightly turned backe vppon Sanders neck The diuels and the altar whereof the Gentiles and Iewes were partakers were not really present in the meate nor receiued into their mouthes therefore the flesh of Christ whereof the Christrians are partakers is not really present in the bread nor receiued into their mouthes CAP. VII The reall presence is proued by the kinde of shewing Christes â—eath The shewing of Christes death wherof S. Paul speaketh saith â—ander is both by deede and worde The eating of Christes bo 〈…〉 e and drinking his bloud proueth that he was dead really for a â—hing is not eaten while it liueth whereaâ— the figure of Christes â—odie eaten doth shewe a figuratiue death past I answere the â—nely eating proueth not his death past for the Sacraâ—ent was eaten before he died which that Theophylact might salue he saith that Christ sacrificed himself from â—hat time wherein he deliuered his bodie to his disciples which is all one as if he said that Christ died more then once directly contrary to the scripture Heb. 9. But seeing in the determination of God and in respect of the effect of his death he was the lambe slaine from the beginning of the worlde the institution of the Sacrament shewed his death before he died as wel as after But how the bloud of Christ was really separated from his body before his passion otherwise then in a Sacrament or mysterie let Sander tell if he can And where he saith a figure eaten can shewe but a figuratiue death past it is vtterly false for the figures of the lawe shewed not a figuratiue but a reall death to come And doeth not baptisme where is no reall presence shewe the Lordes death buriall and resurrection truely past But Sander will helpe the matter by false pointing a place of Ambrose in 1. Cor. 11. Quia enim morte Domini liberati sumus huius rei memores in edendo potando carnem sanguinem quae pro nobis oblata sunt significamus Because we are deliuered by the death of our Lorde being mindfull of this thing in eating and drinking wee signifie the fleshe and bloud which were offered for vs. Which Sander thus englisheth Because we are made free through the death of our Lorde being mindfull thereof wee in eating drinking flesh and bloud shewe the things that were offered to death for vs. The example he bringeth out of Damascen of them that defended the carying of dead mens bones because they put them in remembrance of death is friuolous maketh nothing to the purpose for I will demaunde of Sander that vrgeth so egerly the real presence for shewing of Christes death is the bodie of Christ in the Sacrament dead or aliue if it be aliue as I am sure he wil say what similitude hath it with the dead bones and howe doeth it shewe his death which is eaten aliue except it be in the dead figures of bread and wine which haue no life If the death be represented only in outward shewes seing the bodie that is receiued is aliue what is become of Sanders diuinitie and Logike that the figures or shewes of a dead bodie cannot shewe but a figuratiue and imagined death As for the argument a consequentibus holdeth aswell of the Sacrament as of the matter therof ye eate the Sacrament of Christ crucified ergo Christ is crucified But Sander would separate all doctrine from the Sacrament and knowe howe we should shew him to haue died by onely eating it I aunswere by onely eating of a liuing bodie we could not knowe that he had died therefore doctrine of necessitie must be ioyned with the outward action And further where he would knowe whether Christ did institute this Sacrament to shewe his death past in deede or
Constantius after both his brethren were deade ruled both in the East and the West what thinke you was the vaunting multitude of the Arrian faction insulting against the true Christians calling them heretikes Homousians Athanasians c Vincentius Lyrinensis saith Arrianorum veneâ—â—â— non iam portiunculam quandam sed penè totum orbem contaminauerat adeâ—ut prope cunctis latini sermonis episcopis partim vi partim fraude deceptis caligo quaedam mentibus offunderetur The poyson of the Arrians had defiled not nowe a little portion but almost all the worlde insomuch that almost all the Bishops of the Latine speach partly by force partly by fraude being deceiued a certaine myst couered their minds You see what skill this proude censor hath of the hystorie of that time Last of all he saith I make a proper distribution the Popes of all ages to be theirs and yet the Apostles and doctors to be mine But he maketh an vnproper application of the name of Popes to the Bishops of Rome of al ages where as a great number of the most auncient were godly men and of true religion members of the same Church wherof the Apostles and Doctors were and not antichristian tyrants as the later sort of degenerated bishops haue shewed themselues to be I doe not meane to prosecute euery trifling matter after this manner but to let the reader see by these fewe what great pyth is in his marginall notes and friuolous quarels CAP. III. That he confesseth the foresaide true Church to haue made so playnely with vs in verie many of the same controuersies of this time that he is fayne to holde that the true Church may erre and also hath erred but not his Caluinicall Church I confesse indeede that the Popish Church holdeth some errors that were helde within the compasse of 600. yeares but them not verie many nor the greatest controuersies nor vniuersally helde in all that time but in the later part of it onely nor with such poyson of pernicious errors as they are now holdeÌ„ by the Papists Also I confesse that the true Church may erre and hath erred yea euen that Church whereof Caluin was a teacher and that Caluin himselfe in some things both might erre and did erre although Bristow like a scoffing parasite doth except the same But where he chargeth me to confesse sometime also the long continuing of the Church in incorruption thereby to conuince me of contradiction I answere if he charge me with confessing the continuing of the Church in incorruption for 600. yeares next after Christ hee lyeth in his throat I neuer confessed any such continuance If I had affirmed that it continned after the first planting in incorruption for a long season I might say without contradiction that afterward it was corrupted with diuers errors which I haue so proued that Bristowe himselfe cannot deny them But I must follow his sectioÌ„s of this Chapter The first part that the true Church may erre I confesse the true Church may erre The seconde part that the true Church did also erre and in the same poyntes as we doe nowe erre in 1. Where he chargeth them with many pointes together I confesse the true Church did also erre and in some of those pointes that you nowe erre in although they nothing so grosly as you Those many abuses and corruptioÌ„s which I confessed to haue entred into the Church immediatly after the Apostles time which the diuel planted as a preparatiue for Antichrist I did not meane to bee many pointes of Poperie and therefore are heere fraudulently foysted in to vrge my confession further then it stretcheth by my meaning By Antichrist in deed I meane the Pope as the chiefe head of that mis-shapen body to whome I confesse that the Arrian Sabellian Nestorian and al other old heresies were a preparatiue althogh he directly acknowledge theÌ„ not but hath his heresie or rather apostasie compacte of all errors in that he is an aduersarie both to the person and office of our sauior Christ. Particular errors that I confesse to haue beene taken of the Gentiles or heretikes he numbreth 8. The signe of the crosse from the Valentinians Oblations for the dayes of birth and death from the Gentiles prescripte times of fasting immoderate extolling of sole life in the ministers of the Church from the Montanistes Manichees Tacianistes Prayer for the dead of the Montanistes purgatorie fier from the Origenistes Hierom almost condemning of seconde mariages from Tertullian The name of sacrifice from the Gentiles Also in the later writers inuocation of sainctes prayers for the dead and diuerse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies confessed by me to be maintained 2 As touching Vigilantius and inuocation of Sainctes by it selfe I confesse that Ambrose Augustine and Hierom helde inuocation of Sainctes to bee lawfull which is an error 3 As touching Iouinian of fasting of Virginities merite of Votaries Mariage If Iouinian contemned Christian fastes he erred neyther doe we take his part therein nor yet in making mariage equall with virginitie in all respectes For the mariage of Votaries Bristowe vrgeth me with no confession but I charge him with a shameles falsification of my wordes which he pretendeth to rehearse as a great absurditie Purg. 402. We neither boast vpon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent from our doctrine Neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Berengarius when they agree therewith But my wordes are these Seeing God himselfe is the father of that doctrine which wee haue receyued by his holy worde we neither boast vppon Augustine nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Berengarius when they agree therewith 4 As touching Ceremonies I confesse they had many superfluous Ceremonies yea such as the Papistes them selues haue not for the most parte 5 As touching Purgatorie and prayer for the dead I acknowledge that prayer for the dead is an auncient error the opinion of purgatory in the Latine church is not so olde by many hundred yeares in the Greke Church it was neuer receiued What he saith of particular Doctors and their particular times for it I say that most of the particular Doctors from the time of Montanus haue bene infected with the error of praying for the deade but none to bee shewed before him The time of the first Nicen Councell Bristow saith is inough for any Christian man Who euer hearde such a blockish reason If the Nicen Councel had decreed prayers for the dead to be vsed without the authoritie of the holy scriptures it had not bene inough for any Christian man to beleeue The Nicen Councel made the Bishop of Alexandria equal with the Bishop of Rome which the Papistes will not allowe cap. 6. The same councel decreed that men should stand and not kneele in publike prayers yet is no man bound to this decree neither doe the Papistes themselues obserue it Cap. 20.
argumentes with that impudent slaunder of all the church of God which he affirmeth was ignorant that any soules went to heauen before their church had defined it within these 300. yeres I passe ouer come to the matter in question I said Purg. 57. against Allen mainteining that all the iust before Christ were punished for their sinnes forgiuē ma ny hundreth yeres after their departure in hel That the fathers of the olde testament before Christ were not in hell it is to be proued with manifest arguments autorities out of holy scriptures Although they were not nor yet are in perfect blessednes God prouiding a better thing for vs that they without vs shuld not be made perfect Heb. 11. But by this text saith Brist S. Paul doth meane that their soules were not yet admitted into heauen How proueth he that forsooth the old testament did consummate nothing c. but their sinnes remaining not perfectly remitted Christ died c. A sore bolt as though any man had his sinnes forgiuen but by the new testament or could be heire of the kingdom of heauen but by the death of Christ. But the same apostle saith Heb 9. That the way of the saints was not yet opened while the first tabernacle stood Bristow addeth to the text of his own into soncta or heauen wher the apostle meaneth of the worke of Christs redemption in his death resurrection ascension the effect wherof neuertheles was extended no lesse to the fathers of that olde testament then to vs. Thirdly the apostle saith Heb. 10. that we haue confidence to enter in to the holy place by the bloud of Iesus which hath dedicated that new liuing way for vs through the vayle that is his flesh All which proueth nothing but that there is no entrance into heauen but by Christ which way is comon to all the saintes of God of all ages But Bristow biddeth me conferre the end of my text Heb. 11. with the beginning where he saith they receiued not the promise which is the expositiō of their not consummating I admit it for no Christian receiueth the promise consummate before the resurrection of their bodies The consummation of which promise perfection of the saints God reserueth vnto one time when we shal all receiue the promise consummation together that they without vs saith he shoulde not be consummate the same reason is of the apostles fathers of the primitiue church vs of the later church them that shal be to the end of the world Now to mine arguments autorities of scripture I reason that seeing they all beleeued in Christ they had euerlasting life entred not into condemnation but passed frō death to life Ioh. 5. To what life saith Bristow but the life or resurrection of their bodies for vntil the last day all the dead are in death O prodigious heretike call you that a passage frō death to life to continue in death 5. or 6. thousād years Is God then to this new Saducee the god of the dead not of the liuing yea he saith that life after corporal deth in the new testament lightly euery where signifieth the resurrection of the bodies What is it then to take hold of eternall life in this world which shal be interrupted with so long abyding in death 1. Tim. 6. And how can it be true which our sauiour saith he that beleueth in me hath alreadie eternal life if they that are passed out of this world are all in death wherfore then is this eternall life interupted with any Purgatorie Limbus patrum or death The second argument is of that Christ is called the lamb that was slaine from the beginning of the worlde because the benefite of his passion extendeth vnto the godly of all ages alike Apoc. 13. To this the beast hath nothing to answere but that it is not said that the lambe was slaine from the beginning of the world but that all the reprobates shal adore antichrist whē he cometh And because Apoc. 17. the words be whose names were not written in the booke of life frō the beginning of the world he would haue those wordes from the beginning of the world by a monstrous construction contrary to the manifest composition and pointing both in the Greeke vulgare Latine to be referred not to the lamb slaine but to the booke of life As though both those textes in their seuerall sense might not be true except such manifest violence were offered to the construction cōposition pointing in this text of the Apoc. Yet he confesseth it to be true that the lambe was slaine from the beginning of the world which is no where else written in the scripture but heere the cause of the trueth he will not haue to be my fonde sense but because his death was preordeined of God and prefigured so long before A substantiall cause by which we may say that Bristowe was dead from the beginning of the world because his death was so long before ordeined of God and prefigured in the death of Adam The third argument is that Esay speaking of that righteous that are departed out of this life sayeth that there is peace and that they shall rest in their beddes Esa. 57. like as he affirmeth that Topheth which is Gehinnon or hell is prepared of olde for the wicked To this he answereth that Esay speaketh not of his owne time but as a Prophet of the time now since the cōming of Christ who is our peace as though Christ were not their peace as well as oures And what a shamelesse answere is this to denye the doctrine of the Prophet concerning the comfort of the faithfull after death to perteine to the faithfull of his owne time to whome then it was in vaine preached and published by the Prophet After a little quarreling against my translatiō the sense wherof he cannot deny he asketh if the rest of the soules must needes be the blisse of heauen and telleth vs that their Limbus was not a place of sensible paine But sir Salom whereinto the Prophet sayeth the righteous doe goe will not onely giue them rest without sense of paine but peace with happinesse and prosperitie Finally he sayeth Topheth or Gehenna was not the onely hell because our Creede and the Scripture sayeth that Christes soule was in hell I answere that hell signifyeth either the place or state of torments for sinnes in the former Caluine whome you slaunder sayth not that Christ was in but in the later when he complained that he was forsaken of God there is not therefore proued by Christes discending into hell any other place or receptacle of soules in hell but Topheth and Gehenna the place of the damned The fourth argument against Limbus is that Lazarus was carryed by Angels not downe to hell but vp to Abrahams bosome But the riche man being in hell looked vp and seeth Abraham afarre of Bristowe asketh whether 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifie to
toward that 〈◊〉 of the world must be heated whot because the soules 〈◊〉 tary there the shorter time With such inuentions 〈◊〉 may answere any question But I seeke a resolution 〈◊〉 of the word of God or good reason agreeable thereto To the 2. question you answere it is not 〈◊〉 to Gods mercie to remit such punishment at 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 quest of his glorious Saintes as he nowe doeth â—or 〈◊〉 Churches prayers But seeing the Saintes know not 〈◊〉 sodennes of that moment howe shall they pray for 〈◊〉 discharge of them that deserue to goe to purgatorie 〈◊〉 they pray for it continually why pray they not as 〈◊〉 to discharge all other men from purgatory as those th 〈…〉 shal remaine aliue at the comming of Christe And where you say it is not repugnant to his mercie it is not the matter in question but howe it may stand with 〈◊〉 iustice which as you holde requireth satisfaction by temporall punishment For otherwise we know it standeth both with his iustice and his mercie that they whiche obteine forgiuenes of their sinnes by Christ should immediately after their death be receiued into the fellowshippe of them that are likewise made righteous by him Augustine is quoted De Ciu. Dei lib. 21. Cap. 24. where the question is moued but not answered and yet the place is corrupted and inforced as Ludovicus Vives confesseth In that Chapter Augustine reasoneth against them which helde that God after the iudgement would release all the damned at the prayers of his saints In the 27. Chapter which he also quoteth there is nothing to the question Whether faith hope and Gods will may stand with Purgatorie This argument is gathered Pur. 381. If it be against the hope of Christians to mourne for the deade much more it is against the hope and faith of Christians to pray for them For by our prayer we suppose them 〈…〉 e in miserie whom the worde of God doeth testifie 〈…〉 e in happinesse to be at rest to be with Christ. Ioh. Apoc. 14. Bristow answereth those Scriptures proue that they be straightway in happinesse c. as he 〈◊〉 shewed and I haue shewed the contrary that they â—roue it notwithstanding all his impudent cauilati 〈…〉 Secondly he saith it is not against hope to mourne 〈◊〉 to mourne as the Gentiles which knowe not the 〈…〉 rrection Neither do I say that all mourning is a 〈…〉 st hope but such mourning as supposeth them to 〈…〉 n miserie or to be lost as the Papistes Paganes 〈◊〉 Our mourning for the delay of the kingdome God as he vnderstandeth it for the generall resurre 〈…〉 n is for our present miserie and therefore lawfull 〈…〉 e ioyned with hope But mourning for the dead whose happinesse the Scripture assureth vs is a 〈…〉 nst faith therefore contrary to hope 〈…〉 nother argument in the same place is All places 〈…〉 cripture that forbidde prayers without faith for 〈…〉 de prayers for the deade For faith is an assurance 〈◊〉 of the worde of God c. This argument saith Bristow supposeth that the 〈…〉 de of God is only Scripture Yea verily it suppo 〈…〉 that only Scripture is the warrant of Gods worde we haue before mainteined and also answered to 〈◊〉 Apocryphall Booke of the Machabees A third argument is Pur. 281. We learne out of Gods 〈…〉 rde that whatsoeuer we pray for according to his 〈…〉 ll we shall obteine 1. Iohn 5. Prayers for the dead 〈◊〉 not according to the will of God and therefore they 〈◊〉 not heard at al. Bristow denieth the minor which he 〈…〉 th I haue not proued Yes verily I proue it because the 〈…〉 dgement followeth immediately after death and in 〈…〉 dgement God wil heare no prayers And therefore 〈…〉 istowes exposition for him that sinneth a sinne not 〈…〉 to death and shameful addition Let him after his death 〈…〉 quest of Christ and life shal be giuen vnto him is false and 〈…〉 surde although he saith he hath giuen the plaine smoth 〈…〉 se of the whole place which is to be vnderstoode of men liuing and not of the dead A smooth expos 〈…〉 If one see his brother sinne he must pray for him a 〈…〉 his death Againe he vrgeth the present temps who 〈◊〉 knoweth his brother to sinne a sinne not to death 〈◊〉 one saith Bristowe that liued in schisme but yet 〈◊〉 reconciled before he died O monstrous and more th 〈…〉 palpable blindenesse be these verbes liued reconc 〈…〉 dyed of the present or preterperfect temps which t 〈…〉 deniest the Apostle to haue vsed But omit the te 〈…〉 which he calleth him a brother which liueth in schis 〈…〉 How much more soundly may I reason vpon the present temps Saint Iohn biddeth vs pray for a brother 〈…〉 ning but a brother sinning is onely liuing therefore S. Iohn biddeth vs pray only for a brother liuing For they that are in Purgarorie neither deserue nor sinne by your owne confession As for the sinne against the holy Ghost which we say is not to be prayed for at all he threateneth often to consute in the 12. Chapter In the meane time it is euident that Purgatorie for any thing that is hitherto applyed by Bristow remaineth confuted by sufficient argumentes and authoritie of the Scriptures The fourth parte concerning all other questions that he mentioneth and first of good workes in generall Iustification Free will Remitting the questions of the witnesses of Gods worde vnto fiue motives in the 10. Chapter where I alledge that good workes do not iustifie two places one of Saint Paul another of Esaie he holdeth the contrary that works do iustifie And first calling me a falsary because I recite not the very wordes of the Apostle which was not my purpose but to shew what we do affirme out of that texte of the Apostle he saith iustification by workes is not denied by that text of Saint Paule Rom. 3. We holde that a man is iustified by faith without the workes of the lawe for it is to be vnderstoode of workes going before Baptisme and not of workes following 〈…〉 aptisme because Saint Iames saith a man is iustified of â—orkes and not of faith onely To this I aunswere 〈…〉 aint Paul speaketh of iustification before God Saint 〈…〉 ames of iustification before men Saint Paul of a faith which worketh by loue Saint Iames of a bare know 〈…〉 edge a barren and dead faith a faith that is voide of good workes And that Saint Paule speaketh generally of all good workes it is manifest by this reason that he saith boa 〈…〉 ting is excluded not by the lawe of workes but by the 〈…〉 awe of faith what manner of exclusion were it to shut â—ut boasting for a moment while one is baptized and â—mmediately after receiue it againe by defending iustification by workes Againe he sayeth immediately after â—t is one God which shal iustifie circuÌ„cision which is of faith and vncircumcision through faith
olde Fathers in their Apologies declare whatsoeuer was done in their assemblies As for oblations for the dead that Tertullian speaketh of cannot be proued to haue beene vsed at the communion but rather at the buriall of the dead But Arnobius saith Bristow about the very same time as a witnes to the contrarie complayning that the connenticle houses of the Christians were pulled downe by the Paganes in which God is prayed vnto peace pardon is asked for al men for the Magistrates for friends for enemies for the liuing and for the dead Such a saying there is in Arnobius Lib. 4. Con. gra I confesse but how proueth Bristowe that he was about the time of Iustinus or Tertullian when he confesseth it was 300 yeares since Christians were named Lib. 1 and vnder Dioclesian he florished saieth Hierome which was sixe or seuen score yeres after Tertullian the later of the two who florished vnder Seuerus The olde liturgie of the Greeke Church in Epiphanius time had a memorie of the dead but seeing it was an oblation for the Patriarches Prophetes Apostles c. in the first institution thereof it could be but an offering of thankes giuing although Epiphanius expounded it after the errour of this time to be a prayer for the sinner a separation of Christ from the order of men This is the effect of that I saide Bristowe saith I am deceiued by thinking it is but one memorie whereof Epiphanius speaketh and sendeth me to the countefeit liturgies of Saint Iames Chrysostome and Basil which were written long after their age according as well to the error of the time in which they were writtē as in some expressing the name of the Emperour and Bishop in whose time they were written Also he sendeth me to diuers places of S. Augustine but which I knowe not for the place Encherid C. 110. Dulci q. 4. are of one sacrifice offered for all baptized persons that are departed which he saith for the very good are thankesgiuing for them that were not very ill asking of mercie for the verie ill no helpe but a comfort of the liuing Chrysostome also speaketh of a generall memorie of all that were departed instituted by the Apostles Ad Philip. hom 3. in which if there had bene an expresse forme of prayer for the dead he needed not of that memorie to haue proued prayer to be profitable to the dead The place of Origen he mangleth euen as his Maister Allen doth but he more vsually suffering no sentence of any writer almost to be read together without preiudice of his interlacing In Iob lib 3. The former men did celebrate the day of their birth louing but one life and not hoping for any other after this But now doe we not celebrate the day of natiuitie seeing it is the entrance of sorowes tēptations but we celebrate the day of death as that which is the putting away of al sorowes the escaping of al tēptations We celebrate the day of death because they doe not die that seeme to die Therfore also do we make memories of the Saints deuoutly kepe the memories of our parents or friends dying in the faith as much reioycing in their rest as desiring also for our selues a godly finishing in faith So therfore we do not celebrate the day of natiuitie because they which die shall liue perpetually And thus we celebrate it calling together the deuoute men with the Priestes the faithfull with the Cleargie inuiting also the needie and poore filling the fatherlesse and widowes with foode that our festiuitie may be done in remembrance of the rest which is vnto the soules departed whose memorie we celebrate and may be made of vs a sauour of sweetenesse in the sight of the eternal God First concerning my translation Bristowe will haue Religiosos to signifie Monkes as though none were deuout but they or as though the Church in Origens time were so full of Monkes as it was afterward Secondly he saith that death is a putting away of the sorowes of this life only where Origen saith of all and it were small cause of reioysing to put off the small sorrowes of this life if men should enter the horrible torments of Purgatorie Againe the rest of the dead he will haue to be onely of their bodies That were a poore refrigerium if their soules should frie in Purgatorie The sauour of sweetenesse he wil not haue to be a sacrifice of thankesgiuing but a worke meritorious as though it was a worke meritorious that Noe offered cleane beastes after the floode when the text saith the Lorde smelled a sweete sauour Gen. 8. and not rather a sacrifice of thankesgiuing for his deliueraunce The like ignorance he saith I shewe to thinke that memorie for one cannot be a prayer for him As S. Paule to the Colloss Remember my giues and to the Hebrues Remember them that are in giues c. But where did I say so ignorantly that prayer may not be ioyned with remembrance For I trust Bristow is not so brutish to say that all memorie is a prayer But how skilfull is he to compare the memorie of imprisonment which is an admonition to pray for the imprisoned with the memorie of rest which beeing obteined what should we pray for As for the wordes in S. Iames his Masse which was written by some Sir Iames many hundreth yeares after Origens death I cannot be persuaded that Origen should allude vnto them Where Cyprian saith that Victor deserued not to be named at the altar in the prayer of the priests I shewed by diuerse good reasons that he meaneth not of prayer for him but such as was of thankesgiuing for the dead and for the like godly departure of the faithfull liuing For his offence in making a Clarke executor was not to be punished with eternall torments wherto Bristow answereth by telling of three things done in their Masse which he saith were done in Cyprians time but that is the matter in controuersie my reasons alledged Pur. 284. he toucheth not at all I noted Pur. 259. that Allen had falsified 2. Councells at once the Councell of Carthage the 4 Cap. 95. the Councell of Vase which speaking of such executors as defrauded the Church of the oblations of the deade which they had bequeathed to the vse of the poore Allen saith to excommunicate them that hinder the oblations for the deade Now commeth Bristowe and saith it is but meere cauelling to distinguish oblations of the deade oblations for the deade because Cyprian saith there should be no offering for Victor I haue shewed Pur. 284. that this offering was but a thankesgiuing and this discipline was not to cutt him from the Church but an admonition to other As for the other Councells of Toledo 11. Bracharense with this of Carthage and Vase I haue answered Pur. 426. against which Bristowe here saith nothing but repeateth them with his vsuall interlardings The Councell Bracharense which I twise promised to shewe
significat in the consecration of the bloud hic remaineth without a substantiue Fulke A bable answered lib. 4. circumst 23. Sand. 18 In these words this cuppe is the new testament in my bloude you take the nowne bloud for the signe of bloud and so the new testament established by the figure of bloud Fulke Ye fable we take it properly and these words to bee a true exposition of these wordes This is my bloude Sand. 19 If you take bloud properly in these words it must also be proper in these This is my bloud Fulke That followeth not Sand. 20 The construction of these words This cup is shed for you prooueth that which is in the cuppe to be shed which you say is wine Fulke This cauil is answered lib. 4. circumst 26. 27. Sand. 21 In Christs words The breade which I will giue is my flesh you expounde I haue giuen and I doe giue Fulke Yea I will giue as I haue done and doe Sand. 22 In Saint Paul The breade which wee breake is the communicating c. you expounde signifieth the communicating As though the Iewes figures did not the same and yet there S. Paul distincteth our sacraments from theirs Fulke And how can bread be the communicating of the bodie of Christ but as the Iewes Sacramentes were the same Saint Paul sheweth what our sacraments haue like with theirs the ceremonies of the Gentiles also not what difference there is You are wel studied in Saint Paul Sand. 23. The cuppe of blessing you wil haue to be a cuppe of wine as though the blessing wrought nothing in it Fulke As though blessing can worke nothing but transubstantiation Sand. 24. You make Christ giue thankes to his father in beginning the state of the new testament in better words then deede for his words are This is my body yet you will haue him to offer no bodie at all to his father in that thanksgiuing Fulke Where learned you that the beginning of the state of the newe testament was at the institution of the supper Belike baptisme pertained not to the state of the newe testament Secondly howe prooue you that This is my bodie are words of thanksgiuing or oblation to god Sand. 25. You teach Christ to be an instituter of shadowes and to giue to our mouthes lesse then Moses for Manna was better then common breade Fulke Sacraments be no shadows Neither did Moses giue Manna but God for ought that I knowe And it is most conuenient that the signes of the new testament should be lesse glorious then of the old because the doctrine is more cleare Sand. 26. Ye expound to be guiltie of Christs bodie and bloud for eating that is to say for not eating or refusing to eate For you teach euil men not to eat the bodie of Christ. Fulke For wee expounde guiltie for eating to bee guiltie for eating the Sacrament vnworthily that is in some vnreuerently or negligently in some contēptuously refusing that Christ doth offer thereby Sand. 27. You will not haue Christes supper to bee an externall sacrifice and to be worse then Iewish and Idolaters altars and tables who both did sacrifice and S. Paul compareth Christes table with theirs Fulk We will haue no more sacrifices but the onely and once offered sacrifice of Christes death for our redemption The repetition of sacrifice sheweth an imperfection in it and not a betternes Saint Paul compareth Christes table with the altar table of diuels not in sacrifice but in causing the partakers to communicate with their altars tables which sheweth what the communicating of Christes table is and ouerthroweth your carnall presence Sand. 28. You expounde the shewing of Christes death by a figure whereby you shew him not to be truly deade Fulk You shewe it by eating him aliue whereby there is no argument of his death We shewe it by preaching ioyned to the visible element without which it is lame dead and vnperfect Sand. 29 Ye expounde the not making difference c. in such sort that hee will not haue the bodie present wherein difference is to be made Fulk As though difference of the kings person and authoritie can not be made but in the kings presence Sand. 30 Ye denie our vnion with Christes fleshe by corporall participation which S. Paul teacheth by example of Adam and Eue being two in one flesh Fulk Our corporall participation is by his incarnation which is applied vnto vs by faith through his spirite vniting vs vnto him and testifyed in the supper Sand. 31 Whereas Christ is so much more excellent then Angels by howe much he hath a more excellent name you regarde not the name bodie and blood giuen to the mysteries but affirme them to bee as they were before c. Fulk The Apostle reasoneth not because Christ hath a better name but because he hath it by inheritance for else the Angels are named the sonnes of God and princes are called Gods You haue not sought Christ in the scriptures but the confirmation of your heresie Againe we so much regarde the name of bodie and bloode giuen to the mysteries that wee beleeue them to bee the same that they are called after a spirituall manner although they haue not that name by inheritance but by grace affirming in the elementes a greate alteration from that they were before not in substance but in vse and effecte Sand. 32 No promise in the scriptures can be found made to him that eateth and drinketh materiall breade and wine but to him that receiueth the bodie and blood of Christ. Therefore you affirme breade to bee eaten and wine to be dronken in the supper beside the worde of God Fulk The promise is made in scripture to him that eateth and drinketh bread and wine according to Christs institution although not for eating bread and drinking wine onely This reason would prooue that water is vsed without the worde of God in baptisme because no promise is made to him that is washed in water but to him that is washed according to Christes institution Sand. 33 Although Dauid prophecied of eating and adoring you will graunt no meate to bee externally adored Fulk Dauid neuer prophesied of adoring the sacrament Sand. 34 Notwithstanding the Prophets teach that all externall idolatrie is taken awaye by the comming of Christ you say idolatry is committed in worshipping the sacrament Fulk The Prophetes teach not that idolatrie externall shall be taken away by the comming of Christ but among true Christians which do renounce all worshipping of idols Sand. 35 Christ came to saue feed the whole man◠why deny you the foode of life to our bodies Fulk We affirme that Christ feedeth bodie soule vnto eternall life without the sacrament and with it although the foode of life be not receaued at the mouth like other meates nor swallowed and disgested as they are Sand. 36 If in the supper we seede on Christ by faith alone why is it called a supper more then baptisme
more then the Pharisee yes there is saide that â—ee was iustified by forgiuenesse of sinnes which hee â—onfessed not trusting in him selfe that hee was â—ighteous although hee ascribed all his vertues to the grace of GOD as the Pharisee did O GOD I thanke thee c. Iumpe with the Papistes Luke 18. But Bristowe asketh me howe I proue that hee which is iuâ—tified may not bee in some debt seeing all the iuâ—tified children of GOD are taught to pray forgiue â—s our debtes I proue it thus Hee that is by GOD â—ustified is accounted for iust But hee that is iuste is â—n no debte for sinne therefore he that is iustified is in â—o debte for sinne That the faithfull are taught to â—raye daylie forgiue vs our debtes it is because they â—inne daylie and by sinne enter into debte and thereâ—ore haue neede of dayly remission to continue iustiâ—ied The Prodigall childe Luke 15. hee saithe is the Gentile receiued by baptisme who if after baptisme he became prodigall hee saith I haue not proued that being receiued by penaunce wee must enioyne him no more punishment then at his other receiuing Beside that he restrayning this parable onely to Gentiles comming first to Baptisme depriueth the faithfull of inestimable comforte hee neither hath any worde in the scripture so to restrayne it and the whole contexte is against him For Saincte Luke sheweth the occasion of the three parables of the loste sheepe of the loste Groate and of the prodigall Childe to haue beene because the Scribes and Pharisees murmured that he receiued the Publicanes and sinners which all were Iewes and circumcised yet fallen from the couenant of God by infinite and notorious sinnes therefore according to right analogie the lost Childe euen as the lost sheepe and lost Groate is euerie penitent sinner the elder brother as the 99. sheepe and 9. groates are the Scribes and Pharisees which through hypocrisy in their owne iudgement are righteous and neede no repentaunce To the 2. debters Luke 7. he answereth that although Christ forgaue them both yet they both had to be forgiuen after according to the proportion of their loue This importeth manifest contradiction he forgaue all yet something was not forgiuen Yea saith Bristowe Marie had much sinnes forgiuen her because she loued much and therefore long after her hartes conuersion and therefore after her first forgiuenesse Christe sayeth Thy sinnes are forgiuen thee This is a strange kinde of reasoning Christe shewing the cause of Maries great loue to haue bene for that great sinnes were forgiuen her expresseth in voyce that which she before conceiued by faith that her sinnes were forgiuen her Ergo after her first forgiuenes she had need of a second which she procured by loue And yet it is more fonde that in saying to Simon and of Simon the Pharisee To whom lesse is forgiuen he loueth lesse he giueth him to vnderstand that he owed more then he was aware and therefore he should increase as Marie did in penitentiall loue First howe proueth he that Simon was this other detter to whom lesse was forgiuen Secondly admit that he was howe proueth he that he should shewe as great penitentiall loue as Marie seeing his debt was not so great as Maries and therefore needed not so great a proportion of his loue according to his owne heresie of merite Thirdly when Christe sayeth To whom lesse is forgiuen he loueth lesse he speaketh not so much of the quantitie of sinnes but the acknowledging of them greater or lesser For he that confesseth great sinnes to be pardoned acknowledgeth that he is bound to great loue as Marie did the Pharisee who though his sinnes were as great as Maries in GODS sight by meanes of hypocrisie more abhominable yet was so blinded in opinion of his owne righteousnesse that he sawe them not and therefore this loue was as colde as he imagined his sinnes forgiuen to be fewe and small Thus the historie of the sinneful womans great loue proueth nothing that punishment remayneth due to be payed after the debt is forgiuen Whether this woman were Marie Magdalen as Brîstowe calleth her I wil not here dispute Saint Luke giueth her no name Whether Purgatorie follow vpon this last foundation The foundation is ouerthrowen for all sinnes are proued to deserue eternall death and when God pardoneth them he pardoneth them clearely as well the punishment as the guiltinesse for what should he punishe in them that are guiltie of no sinne by his pardon Therefore where I cited Psalm 103. That God hath not dealt with vs according to our sinnes c. Bristow is driuen to his former shift that these wordes are spoken of the Prophete onely for the time of the finall rewarde which I haue confuted before Concerning those that repent at the houre of death I sayde they haue rewarde of eternall life as well as they that repent sooner by authoritie of the parable Matthew 20. of them that came the last houre to worke in the vineyarde Bristow saith I am deceiued because I cannot see any iustice in mercie Yes verily I see the iustice of God fully answered in Christ not in the person that needeth mercie who is pardoned and iustified gratis freely Rom. 3. 11. But the spirite of God sayeth Apoc. 2. that he will giue to euery one of you according to his workes wherevpoÌ„ Bristowe inferreth the God is not alike good to al that he hath once shewed mercie vnto for Christ to all the baptised I aunswere that texte is a threatning to Iesabel them that commit fornication with her if they do not repent from their workes For it foloweth immediately But to you I say and the rest in Thyateiâ—â— that haue not this doctrine and which haue not knowen the deapth of Satan as they say I wil not lay vpon you any other burthen c. although it be true that God rewardeth euery man according to his workes which is in qualitie good or euill not in quantitie as much or as little as they deserue What shall I say that Bristowe bringeth in a varietie of pence contrary to the scope of the parable affirmeth the pence to be wages for the working that also by bargaine So that eternall life is not the gift of God neither are men saued by grace not of workes in his iudgement contrary to the Apostles plaine doctrine Eph. 2. In the conclusion he saith If you can prooue that God will shewe as full mercie also where he findeth not that fulnesse of Christes grace then call vs hardly enimies for not suffering God to shewe mercie to whom he will But where wanteth that fulnesse of Christes grace in any of Gods electe Is it where greatest sinnes be The Apostle answereth where sinne hath abounded grace hath more then abounded Rom. 5. Wherfore the fulnesse of the grace of Christ being extended to the greatest sins what should we doubt that the lesser should not be swallowed vp of it Whether
of our 〈…〉 nnes in baptisme but we are saued by baptisme as we â—re inâ—eoâ—fed by a deede that is sealed that is assured of â—aluation as Abraham receiued circumcision the seale â—f the righteousnes which he had by faith before he was â—ircumcised Ro. 4. and euen so he clenseth his church by â—he lauer of water not by the merite of the worke of bapâ—isme but in that he gaue him selfe for it that he might sanctifie it Eph. 5. After the same maner doth baptisme saue vs. 1. Pet. 3. not the putting off of the filth of the flesh â—ut the interrogatioÌ„ of a good conscience before god thoâ—ough the resurrection of Iesus Christ which presuppoâ—eth his death for satisfaction of our sinnes as his resurâ—ection is the speciall cause of our iustification Last of â—ll saith Bristowe he hath made vs kings priestes to God Apo. 1. If spiritual priests ergo to offer vp spiritual sacrifices as of 〈…〉 ur mortification Rom. 12. our almes deedes Heb. 13. both for our â—wne sinnes for the sinnes of other Here in the last point â—he quotation of scripture so plentiful before faileth but we shal haue reason confirmed by scripture because the â—xternall priest is ordeined to offer externall sacrifices for sinnes â—oth for him selfe for the people Heb. 5. But this cause is many wayes auoided for we are priests to offer vp the onâ—y sacrifices of thanksgiuing not of propitiation for sinne which cannot be without shedding of bloud Heb. 9. Secondly although we be all made priests yet we are not made high priests of which the text speaketh Heb. 5. which office one only can enioy at one time which is our sauiour Christ for terme of his life which is without end Thirdly those sacrifices which the externall priest offered for sinnes could neuer take away sinnes Heb. 10. much lesse our spirituall sacrifices of thanksgiuing for Gods benefites bestowed on vs his whole church I cited further Apoc. 7. These are they that came out of that great affliction haue washed their stoles and made them white in the bloud of the lamb therfore they are in the presence of the throne of god Brist saith this word therefore is referred to their comming out of affliction and so whited their stoles And yet this gloser saith he of me taketh it away from the affliction whereas that whiting was nothing else but that affliction O impudent and blasphemous heretike when the holy ghost expressely sayeth they made their stoles white in the bloud of the lamb darest thou open thy mouth and saye not only that that whiting was somewhat else then the bloud of Christ but also that it was nothing but that affliction so vtterly excluding the bloud of Christ But I forgot to conferre other places of scripture as he chargeth me Is there any scripture that ascribeth purification of our sinnes to any other thing than to the bloud of Christ Let vs heare what whoso ouercommeth shal be clothed with white garments Apoc. 3. But the Martyrs ouercame the diuell not onely by the blood of the lambe but also by their owne patient confession or affliction vnto death Apoc. 12. The text is and they ouercame him by the bloud of the lambe and by the word of their testimonie and they loued not their liues vnto death Here is no cause of victorie but the bloud of the lambe and the worde of their testimonie which was the confession of their faith the onely instrumentall cause of their iustification and victorie who is he which ouercommeth the world sayth S. Iohn but he that beleueth 1. Iohn 5. Faith therefore the onely shilde to haue victory against the worlde and the diuell hath no power in it selfe to clense our sinnes but leaneth altogether to the bloud of Christ. But it is a proper thing to see Bristow forsake his vulgar latine authenticall translation and to turne 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by their owne martyrdom which is in deede by the worde of their testimonie or which they did testifie whereas by his translation 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 ‑ 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should signifie no more then 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 should be taken for suffering of death as I thinke it is in no Greeke author sure I am it is neuer so taken in the newe testament But Bristow addeth that S. Paul also accordingly calleth it the mortification of Iesus when the Apostles were mortifyed for Iesus and sayeth they carryed the same about continually in their bodies that also the life of Iesus might also be manifected in their bodies 2. Cor. 4. I wot well wee must be conformable to Christ in sufferings that we may be partakers of his kingdome and glorie but doeth it therefore followe that our sufferings merit this glorie by his bloud or that his bloud without all respect of our merites doeth not alone purge and clense vs from all our sinnes After he had finished the cleansing of our sinnes by his owne selfe sayeth the Apostle he is set downe at the right hande of magnificence in the highest Heb. 1. Last of all Bristowe opposeth that Saint Paul sayth This our affliction although it be but short and light worketh vs euerlasting weight of glory exceeding measure aboue measure 2. Cor. 4. I answere it worketh not by meriting not by purging our sinnes or by satisfying for our iniquities but by making vs conformable vnto our head in passing by the same way of tribulatioÌ„s vnto glorie that he did euen as the way or steppes which leadeth vnto an high place of dignitie maketh not them worthie of the dignitie that must ascende by those steppes vnto it and yet it is necessarie for them that will come to that dignitie to sit in such places to take that ordinary way Therefore as the passage of such way worketh their dignitie so doeth affliction worke our glory Not to abridge any part of the glorie or merite of Christes suffering by which onely wee are made worthie of glory when all our sinnes being cleansed by his bloud wee appeare righteous before God not in the merite of our owne workes nor hauing our owne righteousnes which is by the lawe but the righteousnesse of God which is by faith of Iesus Christ that wee may knowe him of the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings being made conformable vnto his death Phil. 3. Wherefore it remaineth that seeing the bloud of Christ purgeth vs of all our sinnes and Iesus Christ is the propitiation for our sinnes committed either after baptisme or before that all other purgings and satisfactioÌ„s are ouerthrowen and so popish purgatorie remaineth without any foundation the purging of Christs bloud making vs most pure and Christ our propitiation being throughly only sufficient to reconcile vs. Secondly directly of Purgatorie it selfe prayer for the dead whether all the elect goe streight to heauen Afore Christes comming Limbus patrum His childish rayling on mine
euerlasting rest of infantes that were not baptized But what saith Bristowe to my reply which is this The same reason serueth as well against the Popish Purgatorie because we finde it not in the holie Scriptures Bristowe asketh whether Saint Augustine doth so reason against it As though that were materiall when the reason will binde one man as wel as another and one matter as wel as another As for his opinion of prayer for the dead as I haue often saide proueth not a thirde place as for the two places De Ciu. Dei lib. 21. cap. 13. 24. the one manifestly corrupted the other iustly suspected I haue spoken to them both alreadie Other Doctors about prayer for the dead I cited Purg. 382. Gelasius 24. 92. C. Legatur That no man can be absolued of the Pope after his death and wherefore then serue the Popes Pardons Bristowe answereth that all their suffrages are only for them that die in their communion and not for excommunicate persons Verie well yet are you not escaped For where is the Popes commission for pardoning Quodeunque c Whatsoeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth it shal be loosed in heauen c. if this be your commission as well for giuing pardoÌ„s as for absoluing excommunicate persons this commission cannot be exercised but vpon the liuing We read saith Gelâ—sius that Christe did raise the dead we reade not that he did absolue them that died in errour If I had pleasure to enterlarde the Doctors sayinges as you haue I should adde that we reade not that Christ gaue pardon to any in Purgatorie And because he alone had power onely this to doe he committed it to Peter the Apostle principally Whatsoeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth it shabe loosed also in heauen c. He saith vpon earth for he neuer saide that he was to be absolued which died in his binding Likewise that this authoritie giuen by this texte be it more or lesse is to be exercised onely vpon men liuing on the earth you may read C. 24 q. 2. Quod autem And that no man can be excommunicated or absolued after his death it is shewed by the wordes of the Gospell in which it is said whatsoeuer you shal binde c. he saith vpon the earth not vnder the earth Where I cited out of Cyprian Cont. Demetr Pur. 140. when men are departed from hence there is no place of repentance no effect of satisfaction Here life is either lost or saued Here prouision is made for euerlasting life by the worshipping of the fruite of faith Bristowe chargeth me with clipping because I left out the last periode which is neither to nor fro my purpose Likewise where I said he exhorteth Demetrianus himselfe to repentance which had bene a wicked man and a persecutor of Christians he chargeth me with changing for I should haue said which presently was I changed no worde of Cyprian in saying he had beene and a reasonable man would haue vnderstoode me that he presently was such a one when I said Cyprian exhorteth him to repentance But what is the answere This which is expresly written of Infidells in hell and of baptisme I pretend to be written of the faithfull in Purgatory and of penance after baptisme I answere Cyprian speaketh generally of all men not of Infidels only of al men in this world and not of Infidels in hell Nec quisquam c. Neither let any man be staide either by sinnes or by yeares that he should not come to obteine saluation To him that remaineth still in this worlde no repentance is to late The way is open vnto pardon and to them that seeke and vnderstand the trueth the accesse is easie Finally after he had saide that passage is from death to life the place by me cited he addeth Hanc graiiam This grace Christ bestoweth this gift of his mercie he giueth by subduing death with the trophee of his crosse redeeming the beleeuer with the price of his bloud reconciling man to God his father quickening a mortall man by heauenly regeneration Him if it may be let vs all followe let vs be esteemed by his sacrament and signe he openeth vnto vs the way of life he restoreth vs to Paradise he bringeth vs to the kingdome heauen with him we shall alwayes liue c. These wordes declare that Cyprian acknowledgeth one meane of saluation as well for the Gentile to be baptised as for the penitent Christian by the onely mercie of God in Christe obteined in this life without any satisfaction of paine for euer after this life and therefore he saith moreouer That beeing made the sonnes of God by Christ restored by his bloud we shall alwayes reioyce with him We Christians shall be together with Christ glorious blessed of God our father reioycing of perpetuall pleasure alwayes in the sight of God and alwayes giuing thankes to God For he can not be but alwayes ioyfull and glad which when he was guilrie of death is made sure of immortality Thus doth Cyprian promise to Demetrianus if he did repent but euen immediately before his death and were baptised that he should enioye the same state of felicitie with all faithfull Christians in perpetuall ioy after death with Christ. In like maner he exhorteth them that were fallen in persecution to repent in this worlde while confession may be receiued and satisfaction and remission made by the Priest is acceptable to God which he speaketh generally as if he had saide no satisfaction or remission made by the Priest auaileth to them that are departed To the place of Chrysostome whiche I cited against himselfe Pur. 251. Bristowe after he hath remoued the question from the cause to the person answereth that no friend no iust man shall helpe him that dieth in mortal sinne either committing euil or doing no good I say no more but as I saide before Let it be compared with Chrysostomes other saying the Homilie next before 41. in 1. Cor. and with Allens exhortation in the same Chapter Pur. 242. If thou yet chance c. Out of Ambrose although allowing prayer for the dead I cited in Psalm 4. Bene c. The Prophet did well to adde on earth for if he be not cleansed here he can not be cleansed there I should haue saide cleane saith Bristowe for though he be not cleane from veniall sinnes he may be cleansed there as also from the temporall debt of his remitted mortall sinnes But he forgetteth the worde of the Psalme out of which Ambrose maketh his note Vt emundet cum in terra that he may cleanse him on earth why was it well added on earth if he might be cleansed after this life There is no cleansing but on earth Where Ambrose was alledged by Allen Pur. 104. to proue that euerie man immediately after his death doth feele that he must looke for in the day of iudgement I saide Purgatorie 105. I maruell wherefore it is brought in if it bee not to
ouerthrowe Purgatorie For if it be true no man feeleth paine after this life but he that shall feele it eternally This laste conclusion although Bristowe confesse that Saint Ambrose him selfe sayeth it expressely in other places yet he asketh howe I can inferre it of the wordes of Saint Ambrose In ep ad Rom. Cap. 5. which I inferre not of his wordes but of Allens wordes citing the place of Ambrose as though the wordes were these And therefore Saint Ambrose saith that without delay the good poore man was carryed to rest and the wicked rich out of hand suffered torments THAT EVERY MAN saith he MAIE FEELE BEFORE THE DAIE OF IVDGEMENT WHAT HE MVST THEN LOOKE FOR. Bristowe leauing Allen as he doth commonly breechelesse sheweth the wordes of Ambrose to be otherwise as they are in deede Which I will rehearse somewhat more at large then Bristowe hath done Maxima pars mundi c. The greatest part of the worlde did not knowe that God should be their iudge and very fewe there were ouer whom death did not raigne But they ouer whom it raigned after this death which is called the first were receiued of the second deathe vnto paine and destruction to come but they ouer whome death raigned not because they haue not sinned in the similitude of the transgression of Adam were reserued vnder hope vnto the comming of our Sauiour in a free place as it is read of Abraham that although he was in the lower partes yet he was disseuered by a large distance so that there was a greate goulphe betwene the iust and the sinners how much more should there be to the godly and iust a câ—olinge to the sinners parching heate to the vngodly burning heate that it might not be hidden before the iudgement what euery one was worthy of This that Ambrose speaketh of the difference of the paines of the damned before Christ Bristowe by his accustomed interlacing would haue it seeme as though he spake of Purgatory for to sinners he addeth Catholiques to the impious or vngodly beretikes But he marketh not the conclusion that such heate as they felte after their death they should feele after the iudgement Againe Non latet he translateth might be partly knowne as though that which is not hidde is not manifestly and wholy knowne That I cited out of Saint Ambrose De bono mortis That death maketh no mans state worse but such as it findeth in euerie one such it reserueth to the iudgement to come Bristowe saith that Purgatorie altereth not the state of the euill to worse nor promoteth the state of the good to better but euery mans state is according to the merites of his life nor hee that is cleansed in Purgatory hath his merites multiplied or amplified but veniall sinnes and temporall debts taken away In deede if the state of a thing were nothing but that you will allowe it to be it were somewhat that you say but who will say that he which is in torments in Purgatory is in as good state as he that is in pleasure or ease of this life or that he which is discharged of such debts as you say must be paide in Purgatory is not in better state then he that now dieth and must be cast into the scalding house for such payment But that you may vnderstand he speaketh not of the death of the wicked which must abie for it as Bristow saith he addeth Ipsa quiete fouet it cherisheth with rest this cannot be of the wicked to whoÌ„ there is no rest but to the godly which al immediatly after death enioye rest notwithstanding they be not all alike good for of two sortes only Ambrose speaketh the wicked in torments after death because of their wicked life the godly in rest He speaketh therefore of the godly that death maketh not their state worse as he saide immediatly before Quia portus quidanâ— ect because death is a certaine hauen of them which being tosâ—ed in the great Sea of this life desire a harborow of faithfull rest To the counterfet auctority of Eusebius Emissenus that hath serued for a patch to peece so many Homilies like the Cukcowes song I will say no more then I said Pur. 143 The auctority of Bernard in this case I alwaies refused as a late writer not sufficient to testify of the old faith or errors either Whether Purgatory be only for veniall sinnes Standing vpon Augustines iudgement Enchirid. Cap 69. and other places I maintained that Purgatory could not be by his iudgment for greate offences which by penance are made small Against which Allen cited Augustine De vera falsa poenitentia that some sinnes are mortâ—l which by repentance are made venial c. which if they be not purged in this life require punishment aâ—ter this life c. And Bristow noteth theÌ„ more at large as though I had not vnderstood them or not read the booke The truth is I made none account of the counterâ—et book but noted the impudencie of Allen that would cite it against the certaine and knowen iudgement of Augustine Wheras this counterfeit booke if nothing else did bewray it in the 17. Chapiter rehearseth the opinion of Augustine by name and doth confute it But Bristowe passeth impudence it selfe while he alledgeth for the same with Allen Enchir. Ad laurent Cap. 71. Where Augustine saith of the Lordes praier in them that are regenerate Delet omnino c. That praier altogether putteth away those small and daily sinnes Also it putteth away euen those sinnes from which the life of the faithfull that hath bene wickedly ledde but by â—epenting beeing chaunged into better departeth Here he saith expresly that by repentaunce and praier great offences are cleane wiped away euen as small But how doth Bristowe proue hereof that mortall sinnes are become venialâ— Which also in the next worlde hee admitteth Cap. 6â— saith Bristowe But what doth he admitte that small sinnes may be purged peraduenture in the next life What Bâ—istowe haue you forgotten what you helde euen in this Chapter vnder the title whether Saint Augustine doubted of Purgatorie Fol. 250. that he speaketh not of purging sinnes but of purging worldly lawfull affections wiâ—h greefe of minde c. But admitte he speaketh of purging small sinnes in that place by Purgatorie fier as indeede he doth although before you denied the same how proue you our present controuersy that mortall sinnes forgiuen become veniall and may be purged in Purgatorie you say Cap. 70. Infanda crimina c. The hainouâ— offences if they be forgiuen Si conuenienter poenitentibus eadem crimina remitiuntur He granteth they may be saued by Purgatorie fier after this life Good Lorde what will you be ashamed to affirme There is no such thing in that Chapter no nor in that which goeth before these wordes are not But after he hath declared his doubt of them that haue loued perishing goodes whether they may be saued by purgatorie fire after this
Allens supposition that the ful force of Christs death would sup vp al sinne al paine for sinne death temporall and eternall hell purgatorie and all paine c. But what reasons hath Bristow against my saying First my assertion is saith he As though it were not of force to worke any whit more than it worketh in acte as to saue so much as one of them that shal not be saued I say it is of force to worke euen as much as God will but not to worke against the will of God But I speake contrarie to the expresse scripture He is the propitiation for our sinnes and not for our sinnes only but also for the sinnes of the whole world 1. Ioh. 2. If you vnderstand the whole world for euery man in the world then it foloweth that God is reconciled for al men so no man shall be damned But S. Iohn meaneth by his general word al the elect of the world as when he saith The whole world is set on mischiefe he meaneth not euery person but all the reprobate 1. Ioh. 5. And that Christes death is not a propitiation of the sinnes of al the wicked of the world and reprobates it is certaine by that he refuseth to pray for the world that is for the reprobates of the world Iohn 17. But Bristowe vrgeth me with mine owne saying in an other contrarie to this Concerning the sufficiencie of Christes redemption there is nothing that can be spoken so magnifically but that the worthinesse thereof passeth and excelleth it This should haue come in among the contradictions if Bristowe had remembred it But I beseech you sir in commending the sufficiencie of Christes redemption doe I extend the force of his death beyond the limits of his will Are any more redeemed than Christ would The sixt I say that to remit sinnes is proper to his diuinitie That is saith Bristowe as though Christ doth not remit sinnes according to his humanitie I say Christ which is a person consisting of God and man doth remitte sinnes by absolute auctority but that is proper to his diuinity and not to his humanity as for the power which he hath giuen to his ministers to remit sinne is not absolute but to declare remission of sinnes in his name Neither did the people which glorified God for giuing such power to men Matth. 9. acknowledge the doctrine of the Church for the remission of sinnes by the ministery of man but praised God for giuing the gift of healing vnto Christ whom yet as young scholers they acknowledge not to be God but an holy Prophet sent of God And so the other Euangelists report their praising of God to haue beene for that they neuer sawe it so they had seene wonderfull things that day Mark 2. Luk. 5. The 7. he chargeth me to teach a pestilent doctrine of desperation Where I say there be sinnes for which the Church ought not to pray euen of men remaining in this life for which it is not lawfull to pray which by the mercy of God are not pardonable it is false that so long as men are in this worlde they may repent For which he quoteth Pur. 274 127. 128. 135. 283. After he asketh how many such sinnes there are and saith in one place I name two and after more and after concludeth that in some I say that it is vnlawful to pray for any wicked person of what sort so euer his wickednesse be so long as he continueth in his wickednesse yea and it is vnpossible for the wicked but to continue in his wickednesse This is a pestilent slander for I neuer accounted any sinne irremisible but onely the sinne against the holy Ghost for obstinate and willfull apostasie is the sinne against the holy Ghost whereof a fruite is finall contempt of all that preach Christ and of all meanes that Christ hath wrought to bring vs to repentance such was the sinne of Saul and of the obstinate Iewes for whome Samuel and Ieremie are forbidden to pray As for that I should say it is not lawfull to pray for any wicked person c. I neuer thought it but onely for those that sinne against the holy Ghost of whom Saint Iohn saith they sinne vnto death and I say not that any man should pray for that 1. Ioan. 5. Neuerthelesse Bristowe affirmeth that we are worse then the Nouatians when I say That some sinnes neither by the mercy of God are pardonable But where doe I say so he quoteth before Pur 128. And what be my wordes there Verily who so will turne the booke shal reade them thus For by the iustice of God all sinnes are mortall but by his mercy they are all pardonable except that sinne vnto death wherof Iohn speaketh 1. Ioh. 5. Thus am I worse thā a Nouatian for saying the sinne against the holy Ghost shall neuer be pardoned neither in this life nor in the world to come But perhaps Bristowe will cauill that euen that sinne is pardonably by Gods mercy if God would which is not contrary to that I saide For I speake of that which may be Gods eternall will standing according vnto which the Apostle saith it is impossible that they which so offende can be renewed by repentaunce Hebrewes 6. The heresie of the Nouatians as Bristowe affirmeth of the report of Aresius their Bishop was That they who after baptisme fall into that kinde of sinne which the holy scriptures call sinne vnto death ought not to be admitted to receiue the diuine mysteries but to be exhorted to repentaunce and to looke for hope of forgiuenesse not of the Priestes but of God who both can and hath authoritie to forgiue sinnes In which sentence a double error of the Nouatians is included first that they tooke that sinne vnto death wherof Saint Iohn speaketh 1 Iohn 5. to be falling through frailty in time of persecution euen as Bristowe doth the willfull prolapsion and Apostasie that the Apostle speaketh of Heb. 6. Secondly that they thought the sinne vnto death might be remitted of God contrary to the manifest denunciation of our Sauiour Christe Matth. 12. As Bristowe doeth the sinne against the holy Ghoste which is all one and the same But that the Catholique Churche did then by her Priestes forgiue all sinnes without accepting the sinne against the holy Ghost which Bristowe affirmeth out of the confession of Acesius I maruell howe he proueth Yea he is so impudent to say that the Protestantes also doe admit all to their Caluines breade so the blasphemous dogge barketh against the holie Communion whereas we neuer receiue any whome we knowe to be excommunicated and much lesse would we receiue any apostata that is cleane fallen from Christianitie not of weakenesse or ignorance but of malicious contempt or any whome we might knowe to haue sinned that sinne vnto death and to haue blasphemed against the holie Ghost But nowe let vs see what miserable comfort Bristowe will minister against desperation in answering such places
now let vs see what fault he findeth with our saying we say the truth saith he but not all the trueth For this had bene somewhat worth before the incarnation of Christ wheÌ„ Christ was eaten only by faith but since his incarnation he giueth vs an other kind of truth theÌ„ euer he gaue to theÌ„ So faith M. S. But S. Paul saith our fathers did al eate the same spiritual meate that we do and drink the same spiritual cuppe that we do for they dranke of the rocke which rocke was Christ as substantially as the bread and wine are his body bloud vnto vs. 1. Cor. 10. But S. saith our eating lacketh some truth because the whol maÌ„ is not fed I answere that is no cause for we hold that the whole man is fed with Christ to be saued both body soule For wher he â—â—ith that faith seedeth but the soule it is false for God by faith feedeth both bodie and soule vnto eternal life But this is Sanders error that he thinketh Christ cannot feede our bodies by faith except he thrust his body in at our mouthes He might likewise say that in baptisme we are but halfe regenerated in soule onely because the holy ghost is not powred ouer our bodies yet we beleue that we are washed regenerated wholy both in body and soule so that our bodies by baptisme are engraffed into the death burial resurrection of Christ. Rom. 6 and so we beleeue that by eating of this bread drinking of this cuppe of the Lord worthily our whole man is fed after a spirituall manner with the quickning flesh and bloude of our sauiour Christ vnto euerlasting life And wheras Leo saith That is taken by the mouth which is beleeued by faith he meaneth none othewise then when the scripture saith that baptisme is the lauer of regeneration and when we confesse that the body of Christ is eaten when we meane the sacrameÌ„t therof is eaten bodily In which sense the same Leo writeth Epistel 10. ad Plaui against the heresie of Eutyches Videat que 〈◊〉 transixa dauis pependerit in crucis ligno aperto per militis lanceam latere crucifixi intelligat vnde saÌ„gnis aqua esfluxerint ut ceclesia Dei lauacro rigaretur poculo Let him see what nature being striken through with nayles hath hanged on the woode of the crosse and when the side of him that was crucified was opened let him vnderstand from whence that blood water flowed that the church of god might be moistened both by a lauer by a cupp By these words he sheweth that the bloud in the cuppe is none otherwise the bloud of Christ theÌ„ the water of baptisme is the water that issued out of his side which is far from the popish vnderstanding As for the often eating drinking recorded in the scriptures in the sacrifices Manna the rocke water the Paschal lambe the shewbread c which SaÌ„der wold haue to be but figures of the bodily eating of Christs flesh I answere they were sacraments of the spiritual norishmeÌ„t of the faithful appointed for that time as this supper is appropriated to our time and not because the bodily eating of the forbidden fruit could not otherwise be purged from vs but by bodily eating of Christs flesh as he assurmeth The sinne of Adam was not in eating but in eating disobediently so that eating of it selfe was no fault nor any poyson was in the nature of the fruite that was eaten as Sander dreameth but disobedience was the sin of Adam which by the obedience of Christ is done awaye as S. Paul teacheth Rom. 5. ver 19. As by the disobedience of one man many were made sinners so by the obedience of one man many shall be made righteous Neither doth Cyprian saye otherwise although he allude to the tasting of the forbidden fruite De Coen Dom. Bibimus c We drinke of the bloud of Christ himselfe commanding being partakers of eternall life with him and by him abhorring the sinnes of naturall lust as vnpure bloud granting our selues by tast of sinne to haue ben depriued from blessednes and condemned except the mercy of Christ had brought vs againe vnto fellowship of eternal life by his bloud Although Cyprian here allude vnto the acte in which disobedience was committed yet in the end he sheweth that by the obedience of Christe shedding his bloud for vs we are restored into the fauor of God and not by actuall drinking of the naturall bloud of Christ into our bodyes Neither doth Prosper Aquitanicus thinke otherwise Cont. Collat Liberum ergo arbitrium c. Free will therfore that is the voluntary appetite of the thing that pleased it selfe after it had lothed the vse of the good thinges which it had receiued and the aydes of his owne happines waxing of such account with it bent his impotent greedines vnto the experience of disobedience dranke the poyson of all vices and drouned the whole nature of man with the dronkennes of his intemperance Thence it commeth that before the eating of the same flesh of the sonne of man and drinking his bloud he digest that deadly surset he fayleth in memory erreth in iudgment wauereth in going neither is he by any meanes meet to chuse and desire that good thing wherof he depryued himself of his owne accord This eating and drinking cannot be vnderstood of eating and drinking the Sacrament for the will of man must be prepared both to chuse and desire that good from which man is fallen before euer he be admitted to the Lordes table as euery Papist will confesse What impudencie then is it vpon shadowe of some allusion to drawe the ancient Doctors sayings so contrary to their meaning But Sander seeing the shamefull absurditie that followeth of this his imagined reall eatinge of Christes fleshe to satisfie for the reall eating of Adams aple for so he calleth it saith it is no more needfull that euery maÌ„ should eate the body of Christ in his own person then that euerye one should eate of the aple to make them guilty but it is absolutely needful saith he that some â—r other eate it as really as euer the apple was eaten that all the rest who by baptisme enter into the same body may be one perfectly with Christ whiles they are one mystically with theÌ„ who really eate the substance of Christes flesh being the substance of our true sacrifice truly rosted vpon the crosse This shift of descant then will not serue the fathers of the old testament which were not baptised verily as the Papistes holde but in figure only Secondly if any such real eating were necessary it were not to be fulfilled by any but by our sauiour Christ for what soeuer the transgression of Adam was who being but one made al guilty of damnation that was to be satisfied by the iustification of one man which was Christ sufficient for all men vnto iustification of life Rom. 5. ver 18. Last
figuratiuely because a figuratiue speach can signifie no certeine thing vntil it be plainly vnderstanded This I denie for a figuratiue speache may signifie one certeine thing which the speaker meaneth although the hearer vnderstand it not at all Howbeit that which Christ did here speake figuratiuely was easily vnderstood of all his hearers which were well accustomed to such kinde of speaches But Sander replyeth that the Apostles were simple men Idiots and vnderstood not the scriptures therefore they could not vnderstand how the signe might be called by the name of the thing I answere although they were simple vnlearned men in deede and such as vnderstood not the scriptures in such full measure as was necessarie for them to discharge so great an office as was laid vpon them yet Sander doth them too much wrong to make them or any godly person of that time so ignorant in the scriptures that they vnderstoode not the nature of a Sacrament considering they were circumcised did celebrate the Passeouer euery yere the verie name wherof must needes teach them howe the signe may be called by the thing signified And therfore it is out of measure ridiculous foolish that Sander prateth of the true first meaning of the wordes of Christ. For what will the vaine iangler make to be the true and first meaning of these wordes of Christ This cupp is the newe Testament What verifying of contradictories what diuers soundings what true tokens what things present O great diuinitie of Popish doctors But the Apologie is confuted by his owne saying when he calleth the Eucharist an euident token of the bodie and bloud if it be euident saith he it is quickly vnderstood Call women and children and aske them what token the wordes of Christ make Nay rather call Turkes Sarazens and aske the question if it must be euident to them vnto whome the mysterie is not reuealed The token is euident to them that are instructed not to such as neuer heard of it as belike where Sander hath to do women and children are But God be thanked women and children instructed in the Church of Christ can tell him howe euident a token it is of their spirituall feeding on the bodie and bloud of Christ. But that wordes must be taken as they commonly sound he will proue by the institution of the sacrament of Penance as he termeth it Whose sinnes you forgiue they are forgiuen c. where as much is giuen as is signified by the wordes If this be true all cases reserued both episcopall and Papall are in case to bee forgiuen by euery priest of the lowest degree But here the Apologie which denyeth the Sacrament of Penance is charged to haue falsified the wordes of Christ saying they are meant whose sinnes you declare to be forgiuen If the Apologie doe not truely expound the wordes of Christe yet doeth it not falsifie them except Sander will saye that euerie wrong exposition is a falsification Howe Christes wordes are to be taken as Sander will not dispute in this place so neither will I stande here to discusse But this is a bolde determination of him that many wordes may signifie vnproperly in other places but the principall wordes of a Sacrament cannot be vnproper For the nature of the thing doeth limit the interpretation of the wordes If this doctorall determination be true then these are proper speaches The rocke is Christ the Lambe is the Passeouer the cuppe is the newe Testament baptisme is the lauer of regeneration And S. Augustines rule De doct Christ lib. 3. Ca. 16. must giue place to D. Sanders decree Si autem flagiâ—iis c. If the words of scripture seeme to coÌ„maunde any wicked nor vngodly acte or to forbid any profit or well doing it is a figure Except ye shall eate saith he the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his bloud you shal haue no life in you it seemeth to commande a wicked or heinous act Therfore it is a figure commanding vs to communicate with the Lordes passion and profitable to kepe in remembrance that his flesh was crucified and wounded for vs. Againe Locut de Gen. lib. 1. fol. 72. Tres fundi tres dies sunt noÌ„ dixit tres dies significaÌ„t Et multuÌ„ haec locutio notanda est vbi aliqua significantia earum rerum quas significant nomine appellantur Inde est quod ait Apostolus Petra autem erat Christus non ait Petra significabat Christum Three basketes are three daies he said not they signifie three daies And this kind of speech is much to be marked where any signifying thinges are called by the names of those thinges which they doe signifie Hereof it is that the Apostle saieth And the rocke was Christ hee saith not the Rocke did signifie Christ. Finally where Sander saieth it is against the nature of a Sacrament not to signifie plainly I agree with him affirming that the bread and wine which is eaten and dronken doe plainly signifie that we are fed spiritually with the very body and bloud of Christ vnto the full assurance of our perseuerance continuance in the fauour of God euen vntill we be put in possession of eternall life and the wordes in this Sacrament be as plaine as in the other but the diuell to aduance the kingdome of Antichrist hath deuised a monstrous interpretation of them to make a most abhominable Idoll of desolation of the most holy and comfortable sacrament of Christes death and passion CAP. XII Which argument is more agreeable to the word of God it is a token of the body made by Christ and therefore not the body or els therefore it is the true body of Christ. Sander to dispute for his life would take the conclusion thus it is a signe of his body therfore it is his bodie in deed So that Sander to dispute for his life would ouerthrow the nature of opposites which cannot stande both together at one time and in one respect But as though Logike were contrarie to the word of God hee will haue the argument tryed by the word of God And first he reiecteth the Sacramentes instituted before the incarnation of Christ which he saith were signes in part emptie and voide of the trueth which they signified because trueth is made by Iesus Christ. As though Iesus Christ concerning the trueth of doctrine and the grace of saluation were not yesterday and to day the same for euermore the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the worlde Hebr. 13. Apocalipse 13. Secondly hee bringeth examples of the Angell speaking to Marie of Christe speaking to the leprous man to him that had the palsie to the disciples of Iohn baptist to the dumme man to proue that when at the doing of any thing an outward signe of an inwarde grace is rehearsed that which the signe soundeth the grace worketh When Sander shal dispute for his life he must chuse him an easye aduersary for els he will soone loose
came with him out of Vr of the Chaldees and as hee begate Isaac in the lande of Canaan and as hee is nowe at rest with God in heauen When you can perswade vs I saye that one man can be father and sonne of himselfe then wil we beleeue you that a figure and the thing figured be all one CAP. XV. The reall preseÌ„ce of Christs bodie is that which setteth his death and life before vs. The eating of common breade saith Sander in answere to the Apologie and drinking of common wine is but a homely manner of setting the death and resurrection and life of Christ before our eyes But if the breade and wine be turned into the same bodie and bloude of Christ which dyed rose againe and wrought all the myracles in the worlde then is the death resurrection and conuersation of Christ in deede set before the eyes of our faith Is not this an absolute answere to tell vs of the eating and drinking of common breade and wine when the Apologie speaketh of the Eucharistie which as Iustinus saith wee haue learned to bee common breade and wine but the bodie and bloude of Christ that was incarnated for vs. Confessing thus much what neede hath our faith of transubstantiation of breade and wine into his bodie and bloude more then of water into the holy ghost in baptisme Tush saith Sander all other wayes of setting the death resurrection and conuersation of Christ before our eyes without the reall presence is painting and shadowing in comparing of this liuely representation If this be true preaching of the death of Christ by which he is euen crucified among vs as S. Paul saith Gal. 3. is painting and shadowing the ministration of baptisme by which we are ingaffed into the death buriall and resurrection of Christ Rom. 6. is but painting and shadowing with Sander and no liuely representation But what affinitie saith he hath breade and wine with the death and resurrection of Christ I will aske him like wise what affinitie hath water with the death buriall and resurrection of Christ which is not nakedly represented but so as we are ingraffed into them by baptisme Rom. 6. By this prophane question you may see what faith he meaneth when he speaketh of setting the death and life of Christ before our eyes namely an hystoricall faith which because it is common to true Christians with diuels is not the faith that we come to feede vpon in these diuine mysteries But such a faith as applyeth to our owne comfort the effecte and fruite of the death resurrection and conuersation of Christ with the which the eating and drinking of bread and wine hath as great affinitie as things corporal can haue with thinges spiritual teaching that the most necessarie and onely sufficient nourishment of our soules is receiued by faith euen as the outward signes therof are taken with the bodie Yet Chrysostome saieth Hom. 83. in Math. Ipsum igitur vides ipsum tangis ipsum comedis Thou seest himselfe thou touchest himself thou eatest himself See saith Sander whether the Apologie do more truely teach that the signe or token wtout the real presence or the body it selfe present doth set forth the death and life of Christ. Then heare Chrysostome in the same homely speaking of the Eucharistye Si mortuuâ— Iesus non est Cuius symbolum ac signum hoc sacrificium est Vides quantum ei studium fuerit vt semper memoria teneamus prâ— nobis ipsum mortuum fuisse If the Iesus hath not dyed as some heretikes affirme whose token and signe is this sacrifice Thou seest how great desire he had that we should alwayes keepe in remeÌ„brance that he hath died for vs. But I know he wil presse the former words thou seest himself c. therfore not a signe without the reall presence But seeing the reall presence whereof he speaketh by his owne iudgement and confession cannot stand without transubstantiatioÌ„ if transubstantiatioÌ„ be not that real presence which he holdeth is not And that there was no transubstantiation in the supper of Christ Chrysostome telleth vs plainly Quando hoc mysteriuÌ„ tradidit vinum tradidit when he delyuered this mysterie or sacrament he deliuered wine And this saith Chrysostome against theÌ„ that vsed to celebrate with water But to helpe out transuâ—stantiation he bringeth in Damascen a writer out of the compasse of the challeng which saith De ortho fid lib. 4 cap. 14. Non quòd corpus illud 〈◊〉 coelo descendat sed quia panis vinum in Christi corpus sanguinem transmutatur Not as though the bodie of Christ camâ— downe from heauen but because the breade and wine is chaunged into the bodie and bloude of Christ. Damascene helpeth not so much with the worde of chaunging as he hindreth you with denying the comming down of the bodie of Christ except you say it is euerie where And therefore aduise your self what presence and maner of change Damascene speaketh of when the bodie of Christ commeth not out of heauen into the priestes hands But Cyrillus saith he teacheth That we touch the bodie of Christ when wee come to the holy communion euen as Saint Thomas touched the side of Christ when he cryed out My Lorde and my God So wee touch that flesh when we touch the forme of breade as saint Thomas did touch the Godhead when hee touched the fleshe of Christ. For in each place we touch not either the Godhead or the fleshe visiblie These are high poyntes of Metaphysike Master Sander to touch the godhead which is insensible and to touch visiblie or inuisiblie except you meane by touching not visibly to touch that which wee see not as we may handle a thing in the darke which wee see not But howsoeuer you would cloake the matter by leauing out the wordes of Cyril hee saith that Christ in the sacrament appeareth visiblie Where is then your distinction of visible and inuisible presence nay where is your carnall presence become which you grounde vppon touching when he is none otherwise present to be touched then he is present to be seene and so saieth Chrysostome also in the place by you cited Thou seest himselfe thou touchest himselfe thou â—atest himselft If Christ be none otherwise eaten then hee is seene and is not seene but by faith it will follow that he is not eaten but by faith And nowe let vs heare Cyrillus beginning one sentence before SaÌ„d was disposed to heare him speak I n Ioan. lib. 12. cap. 58 Iâ— reigitur sanctae congregationes die octaâ—o in ecclesâ—â—s fiunt foribus sublimiore modo clausis visibiliter simul atque inuisibiliter Christus omnibus apparet inuisibiliter quidem vt Deus visibiliter autem in corpore Prâ—bet enim nobis carneÌ„ suaÌ„ tangendam vâ— firmiter credamus quia templum verè suum suscitauit Quòd autem mysticae benedictionis Communio resurrectionis Christi quaedam confessio est verbis ipsius probatur
be wtout the Sacrament But that bread wherof he shall eate is the flesh of Christ which he will giue for the life of the worlde therefore to eate the flesh of Christ is to receiue Christ by grace although it be without the Sacrament The third argument is Christ was presently the breade of life when he spake to the Iewes saying I am the bread of life and my father giueth you the true bread from heauen therfore Christ was the bread of life when hee was first incarnat for euen then hee came downe from heauen Therfore his wordes cannot be applyed to his last supper which was not yet instituted Sander confesseth that Christ was by his godhead and manhod the bread of life to be eaten of the Iewes presently by faith and not corporally But he saide also Worke the meate which the sonne of man will giue you and the bread which I wil giue is my flesh which gift is fulfilled in his supper For no reason can be shewed saith he why Christ shoulde say his gift was to come except it had bene some other gift then to eate him by faith alone which was lawfull at that instant To this answere of Sander I replye first that he groundeth vpon a strange translation of his owne of working the meate c. Secondly of a patching together of twoo textes that stande farre a sunder Thirdly the worke of meate spoken of in the former text whereunto they are exhorted is expounded of faith by Christ himselfe immediately after This is the worke of God that you should beleeue in him whom he hath sent Fourthly the gift which Christ saith in the Future tense he would giue prooueth not that it was yet present but promiseth it to them that will receiue it presently For if a mā haue a Ring in his hand he may truly say to them that stande before him I will giue a Ring to them that shall first come to me Heere the worde of giuing is in the Future tense promysing the Ring to him that shall come first for it yet for all that is the Ring still in his hande Fifthly this reason I shewe why Christ saieth hee will giue his flesh for the life of the worlde which presently might be eaten and was eaten almoste foure thousand yeares before because his passion by which it is communicated to the faithfull of all ages at that time when he spake was not perfourmed in act although in effect he was the Lambe slaine from the beginning of the worlde The fourth argument which hee consesseth to be of Caietane is that Christes gifte is not meant of his supper because it was the gift of himself to death vpon the crosse such as shall redeeme the worlde Which gift was onely perfourmed vpon the crosse and was partaken alwayes of the olde fathers and may be daily and hourely partaken of vs which points do not agree with the gift of the holy Eucharist in Christes supper This argument saith Sander is wittily deuised no doubt because it was vsed by Caietane a Papist but yet it is insufficient for many causes The first cause is because Christ spake of a meate that he would giue euen vnto our bodies and not onely vnto our soules Howe proueth he that he spake of such a meate because he ordeined the miracle of multiplying the fiue loaues to be an introduction vnto this talk which loaues were eaten corporally as also that he shewed himself to be the true bread that would fulfil and exceede Manna the figuratiue bread of the Iewes Two blinde causes as though he might not take occasion of corporall eating to speake of spiritual eating as in the fourth of Iohn of corporall drinking he taketh occasion to instruct the woman of Samaria of spiritual drinking and in the same Chapter his Apostles of corporall eating hee teacheth them what spirituall meate was As for the figure of Manna of which he speaketh as of a corporall meate whereof they that did eate died our Sauiour Christ was euen to them that did eate it faithfully life euerlasting Manna was the flesh of Christ vnto them But the distinction and contradiction which Christ maketh of Manna and this bread is that which is necessarie to be betweene the bare signe and the thing signified from which to reason as Sander doeth Manna was eaten corporally and spiritually therefore the fleshe of Christ is to be eaten corporally and spiritually is to ioygne together things that are to be deuided which is a poore shift of Sophistrie Beside that it is a ridiculous argument to reason of the similitude of those thinges wherein the auctor sheweth them to be vnlike For our Sauiour saith not as your fathers did eate Manna in the wildernes of which saying it is much more probable to reason your fathers did eate Manna corporally therfore you shall not eate this breade which I will giue corporally But he obiecteth that Origen saith as it is alleaged in the decrees De Cons. Dist. 2. C. De hac No man eateth properly the flesh of Christe as it was crucified Therefore Christ speaketh not of his death Nay rather therefore no man eateth Christe corporally for hee was crucified corporally But Sander will haue vs to marke that Saint Hierom distincteth the flesh of Christ whereof he speaketh in Saint Iohn from the respect which the same flesh hath being crucified in Ep. ad Eph. Chap. 1. Saint Ierom saith the flesh of Christ is two wayes to be considered that spirituall and diuine fleshe whereof he speaketh when he sayth My flesh is meate in deede c. except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man c. and that flesh which was crucified This distinction is of the maner of receiuing the one which is onely spiritually and of the maner of handling the other which was corporally or it is that distinction which is betweene the effect and the cause Such difference is by Ierom betweene Christ crucified and Christs bodie eaten and drunken which Sander would haue to be all one in substance and differ onely in eating The second reason that Christ speaketh of his supper as well as of his death is that the Greeke text mentioneth two giftes The bread that I will giue is my fleshe which I wil giue for the life of the world Here saith he is I wil giue twise ergo two gifts and then he defendeth the Greeke text to be true although the Latine haue I wil giue but once You see the cunning of the man that can make them both serue his purpose But it is Popish Logike to conclude two giftes of saying twise I will giue as in this example The lande which I will giue you is the maner of Dale which I wil giue to you and to your heires Here is I will giue twise therefore two gifts by Master Doctor Sanders Logike O wonderfull learning of Popish Doctors The third reason is that Christ speaking of the meat saith the sonne of man dabit vobis
nature of Christ bee giuen of the father the names thereof may well agree to the Fathers gift The 6 difference That Christ endeth his talke of eche gifâ— with repeting the old figure Manna betokening by both the shadowe of Manna to be fulfilled But Manna was more perfectly fulfilled in outward doings by the sonnes gift This is an agreement rather then a difference except in the last illation which is a meere begging of the matter in question But there is a great difference in that it is said of the one If any man eate ex hoc pane of this breade in the other he that eateth hunc panem this breade and heere is made a great difference betweene eating of Christ and eating Christ himselfe the one is onely by faith the other in the Sacrament of the Altar the one is to bee partaker of the vertue and grace of Christ the other to receiue the substance of Christ. c. But our sauiour Christ in S. Iohn confoundeth this difference vsing the Accusatiue case and the Ablatiue with the preposition for all one I am the liuing bread which came downe from heauen if any man shall eate of this bread he shall liue for euer Here is the Ablatiue with a preposition but what is this bread of which he that eateth shal liue he answereth The bread which I wil giue is my flesh whereof he saith afterward Except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man c where he vseth the Accusatiue by which it is plaine that with Christ to eat this breade to eat of this bread is all one Saint Paul also ouerthroweth this difference shewing that the Israelites did drink of the spiritual Rock which was Christ vnworthily where as none can receiue the effect of Christes death vnworthily So he saith wee are al partakers of one bread But Sand not satisfied asketh if this be the end of our long disputatioÌ„ that Christ came into the world to giue a lesse token then God had giuen before vnder Moses c as though Christ came into the world for no end but to giue the sacrament As for so many differences as he dreameth of his fathers gift and his we finde not any one but that they may all agree in one gift which was not his supper but himselfe to death for the life of the world wherof euery one of his elect is made partaker as of spiritual foode by faith his holy spirit But this difference is learned saith he out of Chrysostome vpon Iohn Ho. 45. c. where he noteth first the diuersitie of persons saying Se non patrem that he not his father dare to giue saith Sander but he falsifieth Chrysostome which saith dedisse to haue giuen which proueth that it is not giuen onely in the Sacrament which then was not instituted 2 That hee saith Hom. 44. that Christ speaketh first of his diuinitie and about the ende of his bodie prooueth not that he speaketh onely of the Sacrament For Hom. 45. he saith plainely as Sander confesseth that the bread signifieth either the doctrine of Christ and saluation and faith in him or else his body Wherin hee dissenteth altogether from Sanders interpretation who will not haue the bodie of Christ promised before flesh be named But Chrysostome saith vpon these wordes my flesh is meat in deed c. that he so saide to the end they should not thinke him to speake in parables but by fleshe to meane the signe of flesh or by eating to meane be leeuing is to speake in parables I answere that wee say neither of both but that Christ is verily eaten by faith and by the spirite of God yet Sander omitteth the other cause which Chrysostome rendreth of his so saying Aâ—â— quòd is est verus cibus c. either that hee is the true meate which saueth the soule or else c. But he saueth not the soule onely by eating the Sacrament therefore this meate is not eaten onely in the sacrament Finally that which is noted out of Hom. 83. in Matth. that Christ is ioyned vnto vs not by faith and loue onely but in verie deede Wee confesse but so is hee ioyned to infants that neuer receiued the supper and so was hee ioyned to all the faithfull before his incarnation in as much as they all were members of his bodie And so confesseth Chrysostome in Ioan. Homil. 46. that Abraham by eating and drinking the flesh and bloud of Christ shall bee partaker of the resurrection and therefore Christ saide He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my bloud hath life eternall and I will raise him vp in the last day The testimonies of Theophilact and Euthynius which are but late writers in comparison I will not stande vpon CAP. XIII The like precept made to men of lawfull age for eating Chrisâ—â— flesh as was made generally for baptisme sheweth his flesh to be as really present in his supper as water is in baptisme Neither the one precept of regeneration is principally of baptisme neither the other of the Lordes supper And the necessitie of eating and drinking the flesh and bloud of Christ is not â—aide onely vpon men of lawfull age because they were of lawfull age to whome Christe spake any more then the necessitie of regeneration vppon all men seeing Nicodemus to whome Christe saide Except a man be borne c. was of lawful age For spiritual food which is nothing else but the body bloud of Christ is as necessarie for al ages as for perfect age But that the flesh of Christ is as necessarie in the supper to feede vs as water in Baptisme to wash vs it is a froward and foolish comparisoÌ„ for water washeth not our soules nor regenerateth vs but the holy ghost whereof water is a signe so the flesh of Christ is as necessarie in the supper to feede vs as the holy ghost to wash vs and regenerate vs which seeing it doth without transubstantiation of the water into the spirite likewise doth the flesh and bloud of Christ nourish vs without transubstantiation of the outward signes into them The right Analogie is betweene water and breade and wine and betweene the spirite of God and the flesh and bloud of Christ not betweene outward water spirituall flesh of Christ which is as preposterous a comparison is if you would compare the holy ghost in baptisme with the breade and wine in the sacrament But of the error of Cyprian Innocentius and Augustine he will prooue the necessitie of the presence of Christs flesh in the supper because they gaue the communion to infantes that coulde not receiue it with faith vnderstanding therfore they thought the very body blod of Christ to be really coÌ„tained in the sacrameÌ„t I answere it was not because they thought so but because they thought the one sacrament as necessarie as the other which might and may in deede be ministred to infants that haue not faith nor vnderstanding actually Therfore that
Cor. Cap. 11. wherein hee chargeth vs with corrupting his wordes with euil pointing or distincting which he doth himselfe most manifestly For vpon these words he writeth Mortem Domini annuntiantes doneâ— venerit Quiâ— morte Domini liberati sumus huius rei memores in edendo potando carnem sanguinem quae pro nobis oblata sunt significamus So often as you shall eate of this breade and drink of this cuppe you shall shewe the Lordes death vntill he come Because sayth that writer we are deliuered by the death of our Lorde we being mindefull of this thing in eating and drinking doe signifie the fleshe and blood which were offered for vs. But Sander readeth in eating and drinking the fleshe and bloud wee signifie those things which were offered for vs. Against this wresting by mispointing first is the relatiue quae which lacketh an antecedent if flesh and bloud which was offered for vs be not signified Secondly the wordes Carnem sanguinem are put absolutely not shewing whose theie are and the relatiue is referred to vncertain things For if he had ment the same to be eaten which was offered he would haue saide not quae but eadem last of all the accusatiue case following the verbs eating and drinking can be reasonably none other in an expositor but the accusatiue case which Paul vseth that is this breade and this cuppe The second fowle error of the Sacramentaries is that they expound the wordes of Christ Except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man that is to say the figure of his flesh which is breade and wine And here he crieth what ignorance what abusing of Gods word what blasphemie where is honestie where is shamefastnes where is common vnderstanding I answere that for honesty and shamefastnes it is in the diuel as soone as in Sander For what honesty or shamefastnesse is it thou aâ—â—ant traitor and stinking heretike to faine such an interpretation of the Sacramentaries as if thou wouldest hang thy selfe thou canst not finde that euer any vsed or said that the flesh of Christ is a figure of breade and wine or that Christ in that place speaking of his flesh and bloud spake of a figure thereof But if no man haue either written or spoken so thou wilt perhaps inferre it of other sayings or writings of theirs which say those words belong to the supper so truely that they build falsely vpon them the necessitie of both kindes But wilt thou not vnderstande by an hundreth times repeating that none of vs referreth those wordes or any other in that Chapter vnto the supper otherwise then as the supper is a sacrament seale or outward token ordeined of Christ to confirme our faith in that doctrine of our spirituall foode to be giuen by him vnto eternall life which is giuen to the worthie receiuer in that Sacrament in baptisme and without either of them by the working of Gods spirite onely in some in men of discretion not without faith As for the necessitie of both kindes is proued by that analogie which ought to be betweene the things signified the signes and also vpon your owne concession who vnderstanding those wordes onely of sacramentall eating and drinking may no more exclude drinking then you can doe eating CAP. XV. Christes flesh being meate in deede must needes be really receiued into our bodies Three things saith Sander must be considered of him that wil knowe why the flesh of Christ is called meate in deede The first that the Iewes asked howe he would giue his flesh to be eaten The second that Christ saith the eating of his flesh was necessarie and profitable both for bodie and soule The thirde that Christ confirmeth these his sayings with this reason For my flesh is meate in deede and my bloud is drinke in deede that is it hath truely and in deed those properties that any man would wish for in true meate But the properties of true meate are to be receiued into the bodie and to be a medicine against death If none be true meate but that which is receiued into the body then that which Sander so often calleth the fathers gift the bread of life which came downe from heauen is not true meate for that he hath often saide may be receiued by saith and spirit not entring into the body yet thereof saith Christ that he is the true bread But Chrysostome vpon these words My flesh is meat in deede c. saith that it meaneth that flesh to be the true meat which saueth the soule or else he speaketh it to confirme them in the former words that they should not thinke him to haue spoken in parables darkely but that they shoulde knowe it to bee by all meanes necessarie to eate his body in Ioan. Hom. 46. He that granteth both these senses saith Sander must needes grant that the true eating of the flesh standeth not for eating truely the signe of the fleshe because hee spake not obscurely in parables Verily he were worthy to weare a cockescombe that would say true eating of the flesh standeth for eating truely the signe of the fleshe Against whome then doeth Sander fight but against an idoll of his owne braine but it is an obscure saying to put eating for beleeuing I answere Chrysostome speaketh of the meate and not of the manner of eating for if there be no obscuritie in the manner of eating let Sander speake of his small conscience when he saith the manner of eating to be vnder another kind then it selfe is which is most obscure and imperceptible But if his flesh be called meate because it must bee eaten bodily wherefore then is his bloud called drinke in deed which Sander holdeth not to be necessarie to be dronke bodily For if his bloud in that sense be drinke in deede it must be drunke in deede and not eaten with the bodie But Augustine lib. 13. De ciuitate Dei Cap â—0 sayeth Tanquam caetera c. That other trees of Paradise were a nourishment the tree of life a Sacrament So that the tree of life should be taken to be after such a sort in the bodily Paradise as the wisedome of God is in the spirituall intelligible Paradise Of which wisedome it is written It is the tree of life to all that embraece it What can Sander make of this saying As corporall tasting in the tree of life was necessarie for the spirituall effect of incorruption so Christes flesh must be corporally tasted that it maie be meate indeede I denie the comparison which shoulde be made of the tree with bread and of life with Christe and not of woode with the flesh of Christ. And it is certaine that Augustine not only compareth the sacrament with the sacrament but also calling Christ the spirituall part of the sacrament the wisedome of God which is a tree of life to all that embrace him signifieth that Christ is otherwise receiued then with the mouth for embracing is more aptly said to