shal be illuminated and you shall se first that becaus the creator is infinitly good that therefor it behoueth the creatures in their original creation to be good And so I doute not was the deuil created good but in the veritie he stood not And secoÌ„darely that because the iust iudgemeÌ„ts of God were no les to shyne in the damnation of the reprobat then his infinite mercie was to be praised in the vessels of honor it behoued the one and the other to be innocent and good in their creation For if the original had bene euill God iustly could not haue after daÌ„ned that which he had made no better but so we must confesse that it was good that yet willingly corrupting the self maÌ„ made away to the most iust executioÌ„ of gods eternal couÌ„sell And last that the eternall purpose of God might in tyme be notified vnto maÌ„ w c was that God wold bestow greater liberalitie shew greater loue aÌ„d mercie in the redeÌ„ption of maÌ„ iustly damned then that he did in his creation Of nothing he did creat him for his corporall substaÌ„ce was made of the dust which somtymes was not to his own image and similitude to him he gaue the dominion of all creatures these were documents of a true loue But if they be compared with that loue which in Christ Iesus we receiue and that of fre grace they are no thing For what is the dominion of earthlie creatures in respect that we shall reigne with Christ Iesus for euer what were the pleasures and fruites of Paradise in comparison of those heaueÌ„lie ioyes which sainct Paul affirmeth can not enter in to the heart of man If man had stand perpetually in Adam neither had the loue of God so wonderously bene notified vnto vs neither yet had place ben graÌ„ted to his fre grace aÌ„d mercie w c we receiue in Christ Iesus For mercy properly hath respect to miserie But y e cheif comfort of gods children is that as they fell in Adam so are they new transferred in an other that is in Christ Iesus to whom they are giuen and who as before we haue proued hath so receaued them from the hand of his Father that he shall giue lief euerlasting to so many as the Father hath giuen him If ye I say can not admitt these reasons why it behoued maÌ„ to be created good and yet after to fall in to sin and merserie accuse your selues storm not against God for he will not be subiect to your reason iudgements your horrible blasphemies against God and your dispitefull raling against vs at this tyme I will omitt and how impudently ye leap from the purpose of gods reprobation to the execution of his iudgement shal be spoken in weying this your reason which thus foloweth THE ADVERSARIE The scripture witnesseth that we did fall in Adam for damnation came of one sinne vnto condemnation then did we all stand afore in Adam for none falleth but he that standeth If we did all stand then were we all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death so is our standing vnto saluation and lief And to confirme this we haue many testimonies in the word which proue vs to be elected chosen and predestinat to lief afore the fall but none that proue any man to be abiected cast away damned and reprobate afore sinne by which death entred into the world Paul to the Ephesians saieth God did choose vs in Christe before the foundations of the world were laid and ordeined vs before through him to be heires vnto him self and were tâ—erunto predestinat I pray you shew me any testimonie of the scripture which so manifestly proueth that God hath reprobate any before the foundations of the world God hath no respect of persons For he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son vnto the going downe of the same he made bothe small and great and careth for bothe a like for they be all the work of his handes And Esdras saieth it was not gods will that man should com to nought but he prepared lief for them The holie Gost saieth that God hath not made death neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the liuing for he created all things that they might haue their being yea all the people of the earth hath he made that they should haue helthe and their should be no destruction in them and that the kingdom of hell should not be vpon earth what can be more plainely and more directly spoken against this error In an other place saieth the holie Gost God created man to be vndestroyed and agane God ordeined man that he should order the world according to equitie and righteousnes and execute iudgement with a true hearte doeth God ordein man to rule the world according to righteousnes whom he reprobated Do men gather grapes as Christ saieth of thornes and figges of thistles euen so euerie good tree bringeth furthe good fruites But a corrupt tree bringeth furth euill fruite a good tree can not bring furth badd fruit neither can a badd tre bring furth good fruite Matth. 7. Either make the tre good and the fruite good orels the tre euill and his fruite euill Either grant man at his creation to be righteous and good and then I think ye will abhorre to say that God afore the foundations of the world did reprobate his good and righteous creature orels grant him at his creation to be an euill and vnrighteous creature Could then righteous iudgement com of such an vnrighteous tree further if man at his creation was an euill things then was he not the creature of God For God sawe al that he had made and they were verie good if man at his creation or afore was reprobate and ordeined vnto death then was man giltie afore the transgressioÌ„ for God damned none but such as be gyltie If he was giltie afore his transgression then was he a sinner being yet innocent and iust afore he euer consenteth or committed sinne And so consequently of this error I may inferre many no such absurdities as should offend any faithfull mannes eares ANSWER As no man of hole iudgement did euer denie that in Adam we did fall so I think you aÌ„d your sect set a part there hath ben none that euer did affirme that in Adam we were predestinat to lief euerlasting True it is y t we stood in Adam created in his loynes but I suppose that ye will not hold that the children had greater priuiledge then had the father Adam did not so stand but that he was subiect to the law the transgression where of made him dettour to death To speake the mater more plainely Adam did so stand that he might and did fall as the euent declared aÌ„d were his children so elect in him that they could not fall so ye appere to conclude For thus ye reason if we did all stand then were we
be which deserueth praise MaÌ„ therefor falleth gods prouidence so ordeining but yet he falleth by his own fault for God of short time before had pronouÌ„ced that all which he had made were verey good frome wheÌ„ce theÌ„ came such wickednes to maÌ„ y t he so traterously declyned froÌ„ his God Lest that it might haue bene through that that it proceded frome the creation God approued by his own commendation whaâ— so euer he had made Therefor did man corrupt by his own malice that pure and clean nature which from God he had receaued aÌ„d by his fall he drew his hole posteritie to perditioÌ„ Therefor let vs rather behold the euident cause of damnatioÌ„ in the corrupt nature of mankind then that we shall pretend to searche it being his and vtterly incompreheÌ„sible in the predestination of God neither yet let vs be ashamed so far to subiect the capacitie of our vnderstanding to the incomprehensible wisdom of God that in manie of his mysteries we acknowledge and confesse our selues to be ignorant for learned and blessed is the ignorante of those thinges which to vnderstaÌ„d and know is neither lawfull neither yet possible in this life The apperance of knowledge in such thiÌ„ges is a kynd of madnes These be the wordes of this most godlie writer frome whose iudgement none of vs doeth dissent in this mater For froÌ„ him we must confesse except that we wold in concealing the trueth declare our selues to be vnthankfull that we all haue receaued comfort light and erudition as from gods good instrument who yet thus further procedeth There be thre thinges saeth he in this mater to be considered first that the eternall predestination of God by the which he had decreed what should becom of all maÌ„kynd yea and of euerie man euen befor that Adam fell was sure and appointed Secondly that Adame for his defection was iustly adiudged to death and last that in the personne of him that then was lost was damned his hole posteritie aÌ„d yet neuertheles God did frely choose of the same such as vpon whom it pleased him to bestow the â—onor of adoption and yet after in the same place he saieth when we speak of predestination I haue constantly taught and this day do teach that frome thence we oght to begin that iustly are all reprobat left in death who were dead and damned in Adame that iustly they perishe who by nature are the sonnes of wrath And therefor that none hath cause to complein of gods rigorous seueritie seing that all do bear the cause of damnation within them selues for if we shall com to the first man we shall find that willingly he fell and so by his one faule he broght perdition to all his posteritie And albeit that Adam fell not but that God both knew and ordeined thesame yet serueth that nothing nether to extenuat and excuse his crime nether yet to wrap God in societie of the same for alwaes must we looke to this that he spoiled him self of the righteousnes which he receaued from God that willingly he made him selfe seruant to sinne and to sathan that without compulsion he cast him self headlong in to destruction and death yet resteth one excuse to witt that he could not auoid nor flie that which was decreed by God but his voluntarie transgression is sufficient to his condemnation nether yet is the secrete counselle of God the proper and naturall cause of sinne but the fre and plaine will of man And there for seing that man findeth in him self the cause of his miserie what shall it profitt him to seke it in the heauen And after albeit that men by long compassing about purpose to delude them selues yet can they neuer make them selues so brutishe and dull but they shall fele the sense of sinne grauen in their heartes Therefor in vaine is it that vngodlines goeth about to absolue man whom his own conscience damneth In so far as God willing and knowing permitted man to fall the â–ª cause may be secrete and hid but vniust it can not be And yet he further writeth this saieth he is to be holden without all controuersie that sinne was euer hatefull to God for most rightely doth this commendation wherewith of Dauid he is commended aggre to him that he is a God that wold not iniquitie but rather in ordeining the fall of maÌ„ his eÌ„d and purpose was good and most right frome the which the name of sinne abhorreth howbeit I say that so he hath ordeined the fall of man that I vtterly denie him to be the author of sinne Let the indifferent reader iudge with equitie if iustly we be accused of that blasphemie which so openlie we abhorre but yet in the same book he bringeh furth a testimonie of Augustine who thus writeth These be the great workes of God saieth Augustine broght to passe in all his willes and so wisely broght to passe that whill the nature of Angell and man had sinned that is had done not that which he that is God wold but that which the self meaning the creature wold yet not the les by the same will of the creature by the which that was done which the creator wold not did he fulfill that which he wold he being infinitely good vsing well those thiÌ„ges that were euil to the damnation of them whom he iustly had appointed to paine and to the saluation of those whom mercifully he had predestinate to grace In so far as to them perteined they did the thing which God woâ—d not but as apperteining to gods omnipotencie they might by no meanes haue done that for euen in that that they did against the will of God the will of God was done in them and therefor great are the workes of the Lord broght to passe in all his willes that by a woÌ„derous and vnspeakable maner that thing should not be done without his will that yet is don agaiÌ„st his will foâ— it should not be done if he did not suffer it And of a trueth he suffered it not vnwilingly but willingly And a litil before saint Augustin saieth it is not to be doubted but that God doeth well permitting those thinges to be done which are euil for he suffered not this but in his iust iudgement Albeit therefor that these thinges which be euill in so far as they ar euill are not good yet neuertheles it is good that not onely good thinges but also that euill thinges be for if that this were not good that euil thinges should be by no meanes should they be permited to be by the omnipoteÌ„t good to whom no doubt it is a like easie not to suffer the thing which he will not to be as to do that thing which he will except we beleue this the beginning of our faith is indangered by the which we professe our selues to beleue in God the father almightiâ— c. And in the end to answer to these calumnies which ye haue taken furth of Pighius that papist
And in what estate did I leaue you Trie and examin your selues in what estate ye do yet stand you can not be vnsensible you can not be so ignorant but ye must know whether that Christ dwelleth in you or no. If you will acknowledge and coÌ„â—es that Christ dwelleth in you then must ye nedes confes that I am an Apostle For by my labors and preaching did you receaue Christ Iesus And if to deface my labors and to defraud me of that honor which God of his mercie hath giueÌ„ vnto me ye list deny that ether ye receaued Christ Iesus ether yet that he remaineth in you then do ye confes your selues reprobates Paule doth not absolutely define that they were reprobates but putteth in to their choise whether they wold confes that Christ Iesus did remaine in them by faith which they had receaued by the preaching of Paule and so wold admitt him to be an Apostle or to grante that they had nothing to do with Christ and so to confes them selues reprobates Now let the indifferent reader iudge whether that ether faithfully ye cyte the text ether that righteously ye conclude vpon the same The Apostle saieth not except that Christ dwell in you yow are reprobates but saieth as before I haue alledged do ye not know your selues that Christ Iesus is in you except that in som what ye be reprobates And albeit that the wordes were such as ye recite how can you therof conclude Dauid and Adam were reprobates when they sinned seing that Paule in that place maketh mencion of no other sinne except of the denial of Christ to remain in them of their ingratitude towardes him whom God had appointed preacher vnto them and of giuing eare credite to fals Apostles sclaÌ„derers of Christes true messingers â–ª how iustly I might turn Paules wordes vpoÌ„ your heades you easely may espie but all such reasoning I do from my heart abhorre If ye can be able to proue that Adam refused the grace offered or that Dauid did storme against Nathan ether affirming or suspecting him to be a fals prophete then had your argument som probabilitie for onely of such and to suche speaketh the Apostle in that place Thus doth â—ther your ignorance or malice wresting the scriptures against their natiue sense compell me to trouble the reader muche more then I wold if any sinceritie were found in you We do constantly affirme that by the sinne of one man did death enter in to the world for Adam did not onely lose him self but also did with him self wrap all his posteritie in sin death and damnation so that Adam and all his sonnes were in him lost But thereof it doth not follow as ye affirme that therefor they were out of the election from the transgression vnto the promes for as before we haue plainely proued they were elected in Christ Iesus before the foundacioÌ„s of y â— world were laied in whom they did stand elected and beloued euen wheÌ„ they fell in AdaÌ„ at which time y e electioÌ„ which from all eternitie was kept in the counsell of God began to be notified and manifested to mannes knowledge The fall and sinne of man was the way and meanes by the which gods election did appere but was not the cause why that it was destroied And so if with reuereÌ„ce ye coulde consider the mysterie of our redemption in Christ Iesus ye shoulde plainely se that it behoued all to die in Adam that the elect might receaue life in Christ Iesus alone The wordes of Christ Iesus our master rehearsed by the Euangelist S. Iohn ye do shamefully abuse for in that place he intreateth not whether a sinner duriÌ„g the time of his blindnes and sinne is appointed to damnation or not nether yet whether such as before haue had knowledge as Adam and Dauid had be altogether void of faith by reason of sinne after committed None of these two poiâ—tes I say doth our Master in that place intreat But vnto Nichodemus he plainely declareth that the cause of life is faith and the cause of condemnation is incredulitie and vnbe leif Not that Christ Iesus affirmeth that euerie man that is vnfaithfull at any tyme is or shal be condemned for God hath wrapped all vnder vnbelief y t he may haue mercie vpoÌ„ all as S. Paul confesseth him self to haue bene a persecuter and vnfaithfull But the true meaning of Christ is y t such as dispyse y e light offered remaine invnbelief to y e eÌ„d haue their condemnation alredie appointed as contrary wise who so euer with full obedience do steadfastly beleue the same shall haue the life euerlasting not withstanding the manifest tran sgressions of the law The rest of this part is be fore answered and thereforâ— I will not with repeticion trouble the reader for ye be neuer able to proue that Adame and Dauid were so out of the loue of God that he did not loue them in Christ his Sonne in whom they were elected Dauid was no suche mankiller as was Cayn of whom Saint Iohn speaketh who delited in blood to the end Nether did NathaÌ„ shew nor Dauid pronounce any suche iudgemeÌ„t against him self as ye imagin but being conuicted in in his own conscience how horribly he had offended he did heare not withstanding that ioyfull sentence The Lord hath taken a way thy sinne thow shalt not die c. Which sentence no doubt proceded frome that immutable loue w c was reserued to him in Christ Iesus euen when he was fardest declined from God It will be hard for you to proue by euident scriptures that Dauid was altogither void of faith but granting that he as concerning his own sense and feling was vtterly dead yet doth it not thereof follow that so he displeased God that he fell from the loue and fauor of God as touching his electioÌ„ for the Apostle vpon whose wordes ye seme to grounde your reason meaneth not that the lack of faith in all persons at all tymes and in all respectes doth so displease God that he hateth them and reiecteth them to death euerlasting For childreÌ„ for a tyme lacke faith and yet Crist pronounceth that their Angelles do se the face of his father and that the kingdoÌ„ of heauen apperteineth to such Thomas was vnfaithfull euen after Christes resurrectioÌ„ And yet did he not so displease his maister as before we heaue touched but that he did sekeâ— him and did remoue his incredulitie And Christ Iesus did rebuke the vnbelief of his disciples and the hardnes of their heartes but yet did he not vtterly dispyse them But now to the rest ADVERSARIE But if the scripures will not satisâ—ie you then must you be beaten with your own râ—d for if I grante you that all men did not fall out of gods holie election unto coÌ„dennation by Adams traÌ„sgressâ—on it followeth therupon that the coÌ„ming of Christ his procious death and passioâ— is superfluous vaine and of none effecte So by your
peruers dâ—ctryne â—e will infect Christianite with the chief error wherewith the Iewes be deludâ—d That 〈◊〉 they esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the offence coÌ„mitted by Adam euen so may I collect of your error-for what nedeth Christ to die for them whom nether Adams transgression â–ª nether their own could make them fall from gods election but now I will more largely dilate this argument Election was afore the world when there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sitheÌ„se the world was created because of sinne for had not sinne bene we neded no new promes being alredie iust and holie images of God Now if the elect did not fall out of the election by AdaÌ„s traÌ„sgressâ—on then nede they no redemer being alredie safe by reason of the electioÌ„ in which they were afore sinne aÌ„d remaine still in the same Because as you say the elect nether did nor can fall out of the election Then seing the elect be safe and hole they nede no phisition nether came Christ to call the righteous but â—innâ—rs wherfor the death of Christ as concerning them is in vain they being safe alredie by election The like argument vseth Paul to the Galathyaâ—s if righteousnes cometh by the Law then Christ died in vaine if the elect â–ª be stâ—ll in the fauor of God what nede they of Christ to reconcile them to the father in whose fauore they are alredie Now as touching the other sorte whom ye call reprobates you say they caÌ„ by no maner of meanes be saued yea that Christ died not for them then was Chistes death altogither in Vaine â–ª for his death you say belongeth not to the reprobate and the elect haue no nede of it Is not this godlie gere ANSWER In dilating your argument by the which ye go about to proue y t Christes preciouse death was surperfluouse and vaine if the elect did not fall from their election this reason ye vse Election was afore the world wheÌ„ there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sithence the world was created becaus of sinne for had not sinne bene we nedâ—d no newe promes being alredie iust and holie â—mages of God Now if the elect say you did not fall out of the election by Adams transgression then nede they no râ—demer being alredie saue by reason of the election in the which they were afore sinne and remaine still in the same c â–ª In this argument ye commit two fowle faultes The first ye take that for a thing true aÌ„d coÌ„fessed which is fals and therefore by vs alwaies denied for thus ye reason man was elected before the worlde was created but man sinned aftre the world was created Ergo man fel from his election we still denie the conclusion and do affirme that as we were elected in Christ Iesus before all times so did the elect euer remainâ— in Christ. and therfore after that they had sinned it behoued that the promes shoulde be declared that by the same the elect might receaue comfort and be assured of their election Your second fault more declareth youre grosse ignorance in the mysterie of our redemption for from election ye streight waies leap to glorificacion and saluation obseruing nether middes nor meanes which gods wisdome hath appointed and determined to go betwext Trew it is God hath elected in Christ to life euerlasting his chosen childreÌ„ But how Sainct Paul yea the hole scriptures wheresoeuer mention is made of our election ioyneth therewith the death and blood of Christ. for none otherwies were we elected in him but that he shoulde sustein the punishement for our transgression And that we shoulde receaue life which we had lost in Adam and in our selues by the meanes of his death and resurrection therefore where ye reason if the elect did not fall oute of the Election by Adams transgressioÌ„ theÌ„ nede they no redemer being alredie saued by reason of their election the coÌ„clusion is fals and the reason vaine for the elect haue nede of a redemer not because that they did fal out of election but by reason that they did fal from iustice to sinne froÌ„ obedieÌ„ce to dissobedieÌ„ce therefore nede they a redemer a phisicion aÌ„d one to giue theÌ„ life because y t they being elect in gods eternal counsel are yet fallen into bondage into mortal sicknes death by their own traÌ„sgression If ye can proue y t the elect did not sinne that they are noâ— sicke then might ye haue concluded that they neded no redemer nor phisition And so ye might haue proceded in your argument vpon the wordes of the Apostle saing that if righteousnes cometh by the law then Christ died in vaine but seing that all gods childreÌ„ are fallen in to sinne the bondage and miserie wherof they in this lief coÌ„tinually fele how iustly ye may conclude that becaus they remained in gods election and so consequently in his fauor by Christ that therefor they neded no redemer let the indifferent reader iudge If it seme straÌ„ge to you that God loued sinners in Christ besides the places that are afore alledged for probation of that part heare what the veritie it self pronounceth So God loued the world saieth our master that his onelie begotten Sonne hath he giuen whom soeuer ye shall vnderstand vnder the name of the world ye can not sâ—clude sinners from it where ye most vnreuerently ask what then nede they of Christ to recoÌ„cile them I answer with greater feare and reuerence then alas you declare euen such nede they haue of Christ as the bodie hath of the soule or yet the liuing maÌ„ of holsome nuriture yea much more for albeit the bodie haue lief by the meanes of meat and drink yet haue the elect nether lief nor reconciliation but by Christ Iesus yea and that by the meanes of his deathe and passion by the which iust payment and satisfaction is made to gods iustice for their sinnes And so are they reconciled who by nature are the enemies to God We do not denie but that Christes death is sufficient for to redeme the sinnes of the hole world but because all do not receaue it with faith which is the fre gift of God giuen to the chosen children therefor abyde thâ— vnfaithfull in iust condemnation God remitt vnto you if his good pleasure be aswell your vnreuerent conclusion as your most vniust accusation in which ye burden vs that we will infect the Christianitie with the chief error with the which the Iewes are infected who esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the sinnes and offences committed by Adam Assuredly I do more then woÌ„der that such impietie shal be found in any creature indewed with reason but I remitt iudgemeÌ„t to God Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE The Apostle saieth God hath frome the begining choseÌ„ you to saluatioÌ„ through sanctifiyng of the the spirit
be thy cogitations of the eternall God head when thou saiest God must loue his birthes becaus he hath giuen a naturall inclination to all beastes to loue their birthes If thy reason be good then must God forget some of his birthes in their youth and reiecte all care of theÌ„ For that same nature giueth God to som fowles as y e book of Iob doth witnes in these wordes speaking of the Estrich which leaueth his egges in the earth and maketh them hote in the dust aÌ„d forgetteth that the foote might scatter them or that the wilde beast might breake them He sheweth him self cruell vnto his young ones as they were not his and is withoute feare as if he traualed in vain For God hath depriued him of wisdome and hath geuen him no parte of vnderstanding If thy reason I say be good God must loue his birth because he causeth all other beastes loue their birthes Then I say it must also folow God shall forgett and hardly intreat som for such nature and inclination hath he giuen to som of his creatures as is plainely proued I do mean thow wilt say of loue onely but the scripture which either ignorantly orels maliciously thow corruptest declareth the contrarie for thow wilt make God to beare because he causeth others to beare That scripture I say thow doest peruerte as thow doest all the rest For what the Prophete of God applieth to the miraculous restauration of the church whiche then was most afflicted that thow doest alledge to make God haue like asrections with brute beastes And that neither thou nor any other shall haue occasion to reporte that I accuse the wrongfully I will recite the hole wordes of the Prophete who thus speaketh Before she hath traueled of child birth she hath borne and before that doloure come she broght furth a man who hath heard the like or who hath sene the like vnto this was y e earth builded he meaneth set in order in one day was there euer a nation borne at once and yet Zion hath traualed of child birth and at once hath she broght furth hir children he addeth the cause of this supernaturall multiplication and felicitie Saying shall I bring to a strait and shall I not cause to bear saveth the eternall shall I cause to beare aÌ„d shall make restraiÌ„te saith thy God They are more then blynd which do not se that God in these wordes hath neither respect to the naturall inclination of beastes neither yet to any common loue that he beareth to his creatures But to that incomprehensible and vnchangeable loue which he beareth to his churche the multiplication the ioy and felicitie whereof he will at once bring furth in such sort that his elect shall neuer remember to their grief that they susteined any passion or paine Let the indifferent reader compare this interpretation with the plane wordes of the Prophete and so let thy self iudge how irreuerently thow doest abuse the moste confortable wordes of the holie Gost to establish thy error But let it be that thow didst mean of loue and of no affection els Art thow becume so bolde and impudent that thow darrest subiect God to the law lymites and boundes of nature To speake the mater more planely I ask of the first if thow wilt denie the loue of God to be perfecte except that he do for all maner of men that whiche beastes naturally do for their birthes Secondarely if thow filthie earth darest burden God in his presence with crueltie as now thow doest in thy blind raige if he hath not created and made all men of equall estate condition and dignitie Thirdly if thow shalt stand in iudgement and lay iniustice to his charge if he shew mercie to whoÌ„ he will and also indurate aÌ„d make hard who he will For all these thre will I planely proue that God doeth first y t he doth not for his dearest children to our iudgement that which beastes naturally do for their birthes I trust thy self will easely confes For the Tygar the bear the Lyon and others do so tender their whelpes that euen against the strength of man were he neuer so valiant will they fight for defence of their young ones but we do se that God comonly doth so permit his dearest children to the cruel appetites of the most wicked men that for a season he appereth to haue forgotten them and to haue turned his face and countenance frome them And shall we therefor think that gods loue is not perfect or that his power is diminished or his good will towardes his childreÌ„ chaÌ„ged God forbid But this say you doth not offend vs but that God should reprobat any man whom he created to his own image and similitude that we caÌ„ not beare for it repugneth to his loue and iustice Well of your first reason which you drawe frome nature I suppose we haue obteined that God is not bound in all things to folow the natural loue of his creatures For he doeth often suffer and I trust ye will not say that he is enforced so to do his dearest children most cruelly to be handled which no beast willingly will do Now let vs wey your seconde reason man sayeth your book is the birthe and child of God created to his own image and similitud as the Prophet saieth wherefor God loueth his own birth that is maÌ„ Then did he not reprobate and cast away man afore he was for that were a proof that he hated and abhorred Omitting your ignorance by the whiche ye applie generally to all men those promesses which the Prophete Malachie spake to the people of God Let it be granted vnto you that as all men were created in Adam so God som maner of way is their father what will or can ye thereof conclude That God loueth all say you If you vnderstand and affirme that equally God loueth all because all were created by him the common experience aÌ„d the diuersitie of gods giftes shall reproue your vanitiâ—for vnto one man we see greater giftes giuen then vnto other som we se verteouse and others giuen to nothing but to iniquitie If you say he loueth them in that he offereth vnto theÌ„ his grace which when they refuse then beginneth he to hate them you haue proued nothing of your intent and further the plain scripture confuteth this your error and first I say that before ye can proue your conclusion to be good ye must proue that all men stode do stand and be born in the same perfection that Adame was created in For it doth not folow that God still loueth all men because he loued Adam created to his own image and similitude The reason is Adam did fall from that image became rebellious inobedieÌ„t and slaue to the deuill And in the same damnation wrapped all his posteritie So that now from Adam we can clame nothing but sinne wrath death and hatred as the apostle affirmeth
serue the Lord what profit haue we for keping his commandements â–ª Therefore may weâ— say that the proude are happie aâ—d that they which deale with vngodlines are set vp Such a spâ—rit haue ye carâ—les libertins as your doctrine wel declareth did not God threaten Adam that in what daye so euer he shoulde eat of the frute he shoulde dye the death not onely corporall but also eternall They which forsake the commandements of God forsake God him self as the Prophetes saye th they are not the Lords for they haue vnfaithfully forsaken him Wherefore Adam when he forsoke God was not the Lords but the seruant of death and sinne to whom soeuer ye commit your selues as seruants to obeye saieth Paul his seruants ye are to whom ye obey whether it be of sinne vnto death or obedience vnto righteousnes And againe if any man haue not the Spirit of Christ the same is none of his and nâ—ther AdaÌ„ nor Dauid were led by the spirit of Christ when they sinned for the spirit of Christ dwelleth not insuch as forsake him obey the deuil except Christ saith the Apostel dwel in you ye are cast away then AdaÌ„ Dauid were cast à waies that is reprobates wheÌ„ they sinned for nether were they in Christ nor Christ in theÌ„ in whoÌ„ the electioÌ„ of God was is but to what purpose shoulde I thus conteÌ„d with you that AdaÌ„ did fâ—lle out of the electioÌ„ seing in this ye agre not your selues for your coÌ„gregatioÌ„ which is aâ— Genâ—ua in the confession of their faith say that of the lost sonnes of AdaÌ„ God elected som to life and the rest he refused Eâ—her improue their beâ—efe or els confâ—sse with them that all the children of Adam were lost by traÌ„sgression If they were lost â–ª then were they out of the eleâ—tion with their father â–ª Adam from thâ— transgression vnto the promâ—s was made Therefore saieth Paul damnatioâ— came of one sinne vnto condemnatioÌ„ in an other place like as by Adam all dye euen so by Christ â–ª shal all be made aliue Here doeth the Apostles witnes plaâ—nely â–ª that we all by Adam do dye S. Iohn saieth hâ— that beleueth not is alredie condemnedand the wrath of God abideth on him Then were Adam and Dauid and all such workers of iâ—â—quitie for that tym that they siâ—â—ed alredie condemned being void of faith And coulde they be in the â—â—ate of condâ—mnation election both together â–ª Harken what followeth and â–ª the wrath of God abideth on 〈◊〉 as Adam from the traâ—sgression vâ—to thâ— promes felt the force of the wrath of God Thus we 〈◊〉 thaâ— Adam and Dauid and all other 〈◊〉 they sinned â—hey be out of the louâ— and fauâ—r and election of God vnto they repenâ— and be bâ—rnâ— a nâ—w for otherwisâ— can they neuer enter intâ— the kingdome of heauen Again S Iohn saith ye knowe that no manslâ—yâ— are hath etâ—rnâ—l lieâ— abiding in him Dauid was a man killâ—r wherefore he had not eterâ—al lief abiding in him Buâ— during the timâ— of his wickedâ—es he was the childe of death as the Prophet Nathan shewâ—d him Dauid gâ—uing iudgement against him self â–ª without faith it can not bâ— that any man shouldâ— please God Adam and Dauid when they sinned they were without faith then pleasâ—d they not God If they pleased him not they displeased him so that they were fallen from the loue and fâ—uor of God ANSWER Albeit that I perceaue y t ether ignoraÌ„ce doeth so impede you orels that malice doeth so blynd you y t nether ye wil nor can vnderstand y t which in y e self is most sensible plaine I wil neuer theles yet once againe repete that w c before I haue said to the eÌ„d that we may giue testimonie aswâ—ll to those y t now liue as vnto y e posteritie to com what doctrine it is w c ye so furiously impugne If ignorance be the cause why thus ye rage against vs ye may be taught if ye list to bestowe your eares to heare your eyes to read heartes to vnderstand for o â— doctrine is not as som of you do complein darke nor obscure except y t it be to those to whom y e Apostle affirmed y t his EuaÌ„gill was hid But if that malice w c ye haue coÌ„ceaued agaiÌ„st the eternal trueth of God doth so blynd you that ye wil not se y e bright son in y e midday there resteth no more to vs but to desire of God ether to remoue this your deuelish malice I write as knoweth God euen froÌ„ y e grief of heart orels so to stay brydle it y â— it trooble not his afflicted Church Ye accuse vs as y t we made no differeÌ„ce betwext vice vertue sinne and iustice nether yet betwext AdaÌ„ and Dauid as they were elected in Christ Iesus before y e fouÌ„dacions of the worlde were laid and betwext Adam transgressing and Dauid committing adulterie and murtheâ— Ye further seme to charge vs as we should affirme that God hated not sinne nether yet that he respected vice If our short plaine and vnfeined coÌ„fessioÌ„ be able to satisfie you in these thre dowtes I haue good hope y t after this ye shall haue no occasion to suspect vs in such causes first before God before his holie Angelles in heaueÌ„ before his coÌ„gregatioÌ„ in earthe we protest acknowledge y t sinne vice and all kind of iniquitiâ— is and euer hath bene so odious in y e presence of God y t he neuer suffered y e same vnpunished in any of his elect childreÌ„ That for y e same not onelie death but also coÌ„moÌ„ calamities hath appreheÌ„ded all man kynd eueÌ„ sitheÌ„ce the first trasgression That vertue iustice and ciuil honestie besydes the iustice of the regenerat children hath so pleased God â–ª that for loue of the same he hath mainteined and to this day doth maintein coÌ„mon welthes albeit that many grieuous crymes be commited in the same As God we say and affirme loueth equitie iustice chastitie trueth mercie and teÌ„peraÌ„ce so doth he in som sort hieghly reward the same and hateth vnrighteousnes filthie life deceat excesse crueltie and riaâ—ous liuing which often he punisheth euen in manneâ— eyes And this difference we say God maketh euen amongest those that be not regenerate nether were euer called to y e true knowledge of saluation And this much briefly for the first secoÌ„d and 3. This difference we make betwext Adam and Dauid elected in Christ Iesus and Adam and Dauid transgressing gods holie commaÌ„demeÌ„t and wil reueled â–ª Adam and Dauâ—d elected in Christ Iesus before the foundations of the worlde were laid were so loued in the same Lord Iesus their head that when they had most horribly fallen and offended yet did God seke Adam call vpon him gently reason with him and at length conuicting his conscience of his offence did make vnto him that most ioyfull promes of recoÌ„ciliation of the same loue we say
it proceded that God did send the Prophete NathaÌ„ to Dauid the offender that by the fiction of an other person he letteth him se the horror of his sinne that he did first terrifie and beate downe his conscience and after most tenderly did erect and lift it vp from the pitt of desperation All these graces say we proceded frome gods immutable loue which did remaine coÌ„stant both towardes the one and towardes the other euen in the tyme of their greatest vnthank fulnes And that because they nether were beloued nor elected in them selues but in Christ Iesus their head who nether did transgresse nor offend in any iote against the wil of his heauenlie father But Adam and Dauid transgressing and horribly falling from God were so hated in them selues and for their sinnes that first behoued the innocent Sonne of God by his death to make a satisfaction â–ª for their sinnes â–ª as also for the sinnes of all gods children And secondarely we say preache write and maintein that the sinne was so odious before God that his iustice could do none other but inflict vpon Adam and his posteritieâ— The penaltie of death corporall the punishemeÌ„tes and plagues which daily we do se apprehend gods children that vpon Dauid he did execute his iust iudgement which in these wordes he pronounced Now therefor y e sworde shall neuer departe from thyne house because thow hast despysed me and taken the wife of vriah the Hittite to be thy wife Thus saieth the lord behold I wil raise vp euill against the oute of thyne own house and I shall take thy wiues before thyne eyes and giue them vnto thy neighbour and he shall lye with thy wyues in the sight of sunne for y u didest it secretely but I shall do this thing before all Israel and before y â— sunne This sentence I say most iustly pronounced was after most sharply and yet most iustly for sinne commited put in â–ª execution And so do we affirm that none of gods children be they neuer so deare shall escaip punishement if contempteously they transgresse I suppose y t this our confession nothing doth offend you except in this one thing y t we affirme that God still loued AdaÌ„ and Dauid after their sinne before y t his holie Sprit wroght in their heartes any true repentance And yet I wonder why this should offend you seing y t we assigne the cause not to be them selues nether any vertue with in them selues but Christ Iesus in whom they were elected and chosen The signes of gods loue we haue euideÌ„tly proued and y â— end and issue did witnes y t gods loue was not mutable If you require scriptures for the probatioÌ„ of y e same Behold they are redie if wheÌ„ we were enemies we were recoÌ„ciled vnto God by the death of his sone much more we being recoÌ„ciled shal be saued by his life And a little before in the same chapter WheÌ„ we were sinners Christ died for vs c. And y e Apostle Iohn herein appereth the loue of God towardes vs y â— his onelie begotten sonne hath he sent in to the world that we may liue by hym herein is loue not that we loued God but that he loued vs. And hath sent his Sonne in the mercieseat â–ª for our sinnes These are verey plaine and we think that no reasonable man wil denie to Adam and to Dauid that which the holie Gost maketh common to all gods elect children to witt to be beloued of God â–ª euen when they were ennemies dead in sinne drowned in idolatrie and polluted with all filthines as witnesseth the Apostle in these wordes And you when ye were dead by sinne in the which ye somtymes walked according to this worlde accordiÌ„g to y â— prince to whom power is the ayre which is the spirit now working in the rebellious children amongest whom we all had somtymes conuersation in the lustâ—s of our flesh doing those thinges which pleased the fleshe and the mynd and were of nature the sonnes of wrathe like as others But God who is riche in mercie for his own great loue by the which he loued vs euen when we were dead by sinnes marke and if ye be offended complein vpon the holie Gost hath qwickened vs togither with Christ by grace ye are saued and hath raised vs vp togither with him and to gither with him hath caused vs to sit amongest y â— heauenlie by Christ Iesus to shew in y e ages to com his most rich grace in his liberalitie by Christ Iesus God open your eyes that you may se the light and mollifie your heartes that ye may magnifie with gods children his superaboundant loue and mercie bestowed euen vpon the most vnworthie If ye think y t this loue hath onelie place before that man offend you se the holie Gost plainely repugneth to your senteÌ„ce for he speaketh to them that had bene polluted defiled with all sinnes If yet ye replie but that was during the tyme of their ignoraÌ„ce and not after they were illuminated by grace ye haue said nothiÌ„g against our confession for we affirme that God loueth sinners being wrapped in death and damnatioÌ„ by sinne and y t we haue plainely proued But yet for your satisfactioÌ„ and instructioÌ„ for I take to record the Lord Iesus y â— I wold bestow my own life to ioyne you fully to Christ Iesue I will procede a litle further with you â–ª Do ye think that the sinne of Dauid touching the nature and qualitie of y e sinne it self was more horrible and odious be fore God then were all the sinnes committed in Ephesus by those to whom the Apostle writeth yea then the â—innes which were done amongest y e hole GeÌ„tiles I trust ye will not think it and we clerely see that God loued y â— elect in Ephesus and amongest the Gentiles when they were drouned in all kynd of iniquitie If still ye replie Dauid was vnthankfull who after so many benefites receaued so traterously declined frome God followiÌ„g his own appetites and of purposed couÌ„sell murthering his innocent seruant and y â— with great ignominie of God This nether do nether yet euer did we denie but yet as y â— question is other so is not our coÌ„feâ—â—ion proued fals Albeit Dauid was vnthankfull yea and after AdaÌ„ most vnthankfull of any of gods children to his daies for herein standeth the doubt whether y â— the vnthankfulnes of gods childreÌ„ after they haue once receaued mercie grace and large benefites from gods hands doth so alienat the mynd of God from them that he beareth to them no maner of loue till they turn to him by repentance The contrarie hereof we hold and affirme not fearing to auowe that repentance as it is ioyned with faith which is the fre gift of God so is it the effect of gods coÌ„stant loue toward them and no cause of the same And for the more ample declaration
eternall connsell of God That first he wold create the heauen the earth the masse being rude hauing darknes vpon the great depthe thereafter that he wold make light putting diuision betwene the light the darknes and so forth as Moises hath declared the ordre obserued in the creatiō And as those things were somtime secret but now are manifest reueled and knowen so likewies was the falle of mā and the redemption which commeth by Christ Iesus somtime secrete in the eternall counsell of God but nowe is most manifestly preached and declared by Christ Iesus and by his holie Apostles for nowe we know that God so loued the world that his onelie beloued Sonne hath he giuen that so many as do beleue in him shall haue the life euerlasting Which life was euen before all times in Christ Iesus euen as we were elected in him before the foundations of the world were laid And therefor I doubt not to affirme but that the fall of mā and the remedie for y e same was not onelie forsene but also before determined and the frute which of the same should ensue cōcluded and appointed in gods eternall counsell before that euer Adam was created the reason and probation hereof we haue before declared to be the issue of all things as we are taugh by gods manifest word yea by most euident experience for who nedeth nowe to doubt that it was gods eternall counsell that man should fall from that perfecte image in which he was created and so become subiect to the death to the end that the faithfull might receaue perfection iustice and life in Christ Iesus alone seing that scripture so manifestly affirmeth that we were elected in Christ Iesus before the foundations of the worlde were laid that God hath wrapped all nations in disobediēce that he might haue mercie vpon all vpon all I say which refuse not the remedie frō all begining prepared which is Christe Iesus as y e Apostle witnesseth saying in him by him areal things created he is before al things al things consist or abide by him and he is the head of the bodie of the Churche who is the beginning the first begotten of the dead that in all things he may hold the preeminēce for it hath pleased the father that all fulnes should dwell in him ▪ and to reconcile by him al things to him self This counsell I say was not temporal as taken and deuised after the fall of man but it was eternall as the same Apostle witnesseth in these words God hath called vs by an holie vocation not according to our works but according to his purpose and grace which was giuen to vs by Iesus Christ before eternall times but is nowe made manifest by the appering of our sauiour Iesus Christ. But mark well that the Apostle saieth that grace was giuen to the faithfull by Christ Iesus from the eternitie of times which thus to Titus he doth confirme saying Paule the seruant of God and an Apostl◠of Iesus Christ according to the faith of gods electe and the knowledge of the veritie which is according to godlines in the hope of eternall life which he hath promised which is God that cā not lie before the world began and hath opened his worde at y e tyme appointed through preaching c. And the same saieth Peter speaking of our redemption by Christes pretious blood who certeinly was preordinate sayeth he before that y e world was made but was manifested in the last times Hauing these I say most euidēt scriptures to assure our conscience that redemption remission of our sinnes grace and recōciliation were appointed for vs yea and were giuen vnto vs before all times what nede we to doubt what was the counsell of God in mans creation or what was his secret will in giuing to him the commādement of not eating the frute and therefor you do not onely folishly but also iniuriously in thus raling vpon vs what strange and monsterous doctrine is this to say things be secrete and vnsecret knowen and vnknowene reueled and vnreueled as man should say hearing is not hearing and light is not light No such absurditie cā iustly be gathered vpō our doctrine for simply we say y t thīgs somtimes kepte secrete in y e counsell of God and vnknowen to the sonnes of mē were after disclosed and made manifest to the world in so much that light expelled darcknes from the heartes of the sonnes of light and knowledge remoued ignorance from those that were appointed to life If these things do not satisfie you yet my good hope is that y e godlie reader shall perceaue that most vniustly you accuse vs as if in our doctrine were plaine contradiction And yet as touching the secrete will of God we moreouer affirme that our eternal election in Christ Iesus our temporall falling in Adam our restitution to life by the promes made are not secret but manifestly reueled But why that so it pleased his infinite wisdome and goodnes to dispose and before ordeine the mysterie of our saluation that first we should beare the image of the earthlie and carnall Adam before that we should beare the image of the heauenlie and spirituall that first we shuld be all wrapped in sinne and by reason thereof in miserie death before that we should be perfecte iust and come to felicitie and life euerlasting ād finally why y t it pleased his Maiestie to choose some ād of this same masse to reiecte others we say is not reueled neither yet shal be reueled before y t Christ Iesus appere in his glorie whē the bookes shal be opened and all secretes shal be disclosed To speake the mater so simply as I can that ye haue no occasion to complein of obscuritie I say that gods will in these subsequētes and in many others his wōderous workes is secret first why did not God more sodēly creat y e world why gaue he to Adam no greater strenght why did he permitt him to falle why he did not prouide mannes redemption by some other meanes thē by the cruell and ignominious death of his owne sonne why did he choose the sede of Abraham to be his people refusing and reiecting as it were the rest of the world And finally why that God wold that his dear sonne should die in Ierusalem called his owne Citie by reason of the temple and sacrifices appointed why I say that God by the figures of the law and by his Prophetes had before spoken that the Messias should suffer in that citie ād that the builders who then onely in earthe were reputed knowen to be the Church of God should reiect and refuse the chief corner stone Christ Iesus In these and others the wonderous workes of God which so far excede the reach of our vnderstanding that more able they are to quenche and swallow vp all light which remaineth in vs then is y e great depth of the sea to deuoure
affections to his will reueled but also our reason appeare it neuer so probable With the which if we stand not satisfied but quarreling with God will or dare in a blynd fury ask to what purpose commandeth and speaketh he one thing meaneth the contrary That deuelishe presumption shall fall down from the clouds and break downe for euer the frantick heads of such vile slaues of proud lucifer And therefor be ye warned for vengeance is prepared for all such vnreuerent reasoners in gods perfect but yet profound iudgementes as ye declare your selues to be in this which foleweth If God say you in respect of his reueled will wold not that Adam should falle but in respecte of his secrete will he wold Adam should fallâ— then did God will two contraries which is impossible Answere Impossible we confesse it to be that contrarietie should be in that will which in it self is simple and one But how shall you be able to proue that God in reueling his will to Adam had none other purpose nor will but onely that Adam should not falle because say you he said thou shalt not eate I answer so said he to AbrahaÌ„ thou shalt take aÌ„d offer thy sonne in sacrifice And yet we knowe that the contrarie had he determined O crye you God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other and yet ye abhorre nes to charge God with that which he can not abide in his creatures that is that he should speak one thing as that AdaÌ„ should not offeÌ„d will the cotrarie as that AdaÌ„ should offend Answer God if his good pleasure be towch your heartes with such vnfeined repeÌ„tance that you may vnderstand howe horrible be these blasphemies which thus in your furious blindnes you spew forth against gods supreme Maiestie for before I haue said they are not spoken against vs. for no such doctrine do we teach nor affirme as that of which you gather these blasphemies aÌ„d albeit we did yet it were as easie for vs to dissolue aÌ„d vnlouse such deuelish knottes as by instructioÌ„ of your father you knit to trippe y e soules of the simple as it is for y e fote of the valiant strong maÌ„ to burst a sondre the spiders webbes which y e venemous spider maketh to catch the impoteÌ„t flies and feble gnattes And now left y â— you should glorie as thogh yo r reasons yet stoode sure Let vs trie aÌ„d examine euery membre aparte God abhorreth say you a dooble heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other I answer That as God is a spirit and hath neither heart nor bodie like as man hath so must not his words cogitations and thoghtes be compared to ours for as we be corrupte liers and vaine so where we do speak one thing and think an other we do meane deceate fraud and destruction to our brother to whome we promise trueth fidelitie conseruation to our power But God according to the puritie and perfection of his godlie nature in speaking to his creatures and in creating of them must not absolutely haue respect to theÌ„ but also to his owne glory for what reason is it that God of nothiÌ„g shall make that câ—eature by whome his glory shall not be manyfested and therefor in speaking to Adam and in giuing a lawe to him God had respecte to his eternall counsell purpose as before we haue spoken and hereafter shall rehears But still crye you that yet we burden God w t that which he caÌ„not abyde in his creatures that is that he should speak one thiÌ„g as that Adam should not haue fallen and that he ment the contrarie for answer I ask of you if ye will binde God to that lawe which he hath imposed to his creatures And if ye will leaue none other libertie to God his soueraigne maiestie then his lawe hath permitted to men subiecte to the same and if ye dare promise to your selues that authoritie ouer God girde your loines and play the stroÌ„g champions prepare your seates appoint your iudges cite and adiourne him to appeare at a fixed day to rendre a reason a make an accoÌ„pte before you of his vniuersall regiment in which no doubt ye shall finde many things more repugnant to your reason then this You think I mock you in that I wil you to cite and call God to an accoÌ„pt in very dede I do for as your blasphemie pride is vtterlie to be abhorred so is your vanitie more worthie to be mocked then your simplicitie in that case to be instructed for what was he euer yet amongest the most ignorant ethnicks so foolishe or so presumpteous but that he did confesse that the workes and wonders of the supreme God were exempted from all lawe and censure of mans iudgement But in your presence God shall haue no libertie to command or forbid any thing to any of his creatures but that he must nedes absolutely will the same and for no cause or respecte may he will the contrarie but that he shall haue a dooble heart he shal be a disseÌ„bler cursed be your blasphemie that causeth me thus to write and in him there shal be coÌ„trarietie this is the reuerence which ye beare to gods infinite wisdome in all his workes to the ground whereof ye can not atteine by your corrupt reason that you burst forth in scoffing mocking and blasphemie But yet to come more nye to the mater I denie that iustly you can conclude any contrarietie to be in God albeit that to Adam he said thou shall not eate and yet in his eternall counsell he had determined that Adam shoulde eate neither yet I say caÌ„ you be able to proue that he spoke one thing willed the contrarie because he pronounced this sentence in what so euer day thow shalt eate of this tree thou shalt dye the death but rather we maye most assuredly conclude that both the precept the penaltie threatned to ensue the violation of it was a plaine and manifest declaration what before was concluded in gods eternall counsell as also that they were the meanes by the which the secret will and good purpose of God toke effecte amongest men was notified vnto the world for if God had not before appointed the falle and the remedie for the same he had not imposed vpon him a lawe the transgression whereof should bring death but should haue suffered him to liue without such feare and bondage as we shall do when victorie shal be giuen ouer death which is the sting of sinne ouer sinne also which had his power by the lawe And therefor I say that gods commandement forbidding Adam to eate and the punishment of death denounced if he did eate were nothing contrary to his secret will but were the very wayes appointed by his infinite wisdome by the which he had determined that his secrete will concerning the mysterie of maÌ„s redemption should be notified put in execution
you wold affirme y t gods good wil pleasure may change and y t is to deny his Godhead But I will burden you no further then ye shall plainely confesse I onely put you in minde that y e holy Gost vseth no such phrase You procede saing Nether is it his pleasure aÌ„d will that ether pharaâ— Semei or any other should sinne and come to destruction Before we haue confessed y t iniquitie and sinne is so odious before God y t in it can his goodnes neuer delyte nether yet can he haue pleasure in the destruction of any creature hauing respect to y e punishment onely But seing y t gods glorie must nedes shyne in all his creatures yea euen in y e perpetuall damnation of sathan torment of the reprobate why shal not he wil and take pleasure y t so it come to passe Albeit your phrenetique braines can not comprehend y e brightnes therof yet wil he one day declare y t al his workes are wroght in iustice wisedom and equitie I thinke you will not deny but that pharao Semei Iudas and others came to destruction like as in the end shall all reprobate do Then do I aske if God at no time for no purpose respect nor end did so will how then came their destruction to passe By sinne say you that we denie not but yet the questioÌ„ is not answered For continually we demand if in God there was not power ether to haue impeded their sinne or yet after their sinne to haue called them to repentance if it had so pleased his eternal wisedom and goodnes Consider your foly and giue glorie to God who doth what so euer he will in heauen and in earth But now to that which foloweth For he will the death of no creature but will all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth How violeÌ„tly you wrest the wordes of the Prophet and of the Apostle shall shortly appere after I haue reasoned a litle with you how these your propositions do agree with that which goeth before Ye haue affirmed that God is ready to mercie and slow to wrath in which wordes you â—hew and cofesse that in the God head there is readines to â—hew mercy and also that there is a iustice w c must execute wrath vpoÌ„ the disobedient And so in the nature of y e God head ye cofesse mercy ad iustice But here you say that God will the death of no creature but that he will all men to be saued which last wordes being vnderstand as ye do vrge them must destroy the former nature of God take awaye his iustice For if he absolutely will the death of no creature then will he no punishment to folowe sinne And if he will no punishmeÌ„t then willeth he his iustice to cease and so coÌ„sequently must one of the properties of his godlie nature cease Studie for an answere to make your former wordes and latter wordes better agree orels ye wil be compelled to coÌ„fesse that God for som respect willeth both death and damnation to come vpon some creatures Further if God willeth all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth and yet many do perâ—sh in ignoraÌ„ce and shal be condemned as Christ Iesus doth pronounce then must it ether folow that gods will is mutable and so he vnconstant and not at all times like to him self or els that he is not omnipotent For if God at the first creation of man wold all men to be saued as ye alledge then wold I know when this will was changed After that man had offended say you Then yet haue I obteined that in gods will there was mutabilitie For after sinne he wold and by his sentence pronounced that Adam and his posteritie should suffer the corporall death yea and that the sede of the serpent should haue the head broken downe by the which is ment the spirituall death which nether of both as you affirme did God will before If you reply gods will towardes the saluation of all mankind did remaine the same after sinne which was before for a generall promes of deliuerance was made by the womans sede that was promised I haue before plainely proued that difference most manifest betwext y â— two sedes was made in that promes But admitting that the promes had bene generall so that the will of God this day remaineth the same which ye alledge it to be to witt that he willeth y e death of no sinner but that he willeth al men to be saued Can you deny but that a separation and diuision of the shepe from the goates of the elect from the reprobate shal be made at the glorious commiÌ„g of y e Lord Iesus Shall not these most ioyfull wordes be said vnto theÌ„ y t shall stand vpon the right hand Come ye the blessed of my father possesse the kingdome which was prepared for you from the beginning And shall not this most fearefull sentence be pronounced and executed against the other Depart ye cursed go to the fire prepared for the deuill and for his angels Shall the Sonne of God in pronouncing senteÌ„ce do any thing that day repugning to the will of his heauenly Father I think you will not so affirme Then if gods will in the day of iudgement shal be that many shal be adiudged to tormeÌ„t perpetual and his will in the creation of man was and this day yet remaineth that all men shal be saued then of necessitie it doth folow that gods will shall change If you say that death and damnation cometh not by gods will but by the sinne and vnbelief of man you haue releued your self nothing for if death be one thing and life be an other damnation one thing and saluation an other TheÌ„ if God this day will all men to be saued and so to haue life and yet that day he shall will many to be damned to torment perpetuall what causes so euer you alledge I shall obteine one of two to witte that ether gods will is and may be mutable orels that there is a power superior to his maiestie and godly will For if willingly he shall damne those whom before he wold and had determined to saue then is his will and determination changed And if he shall damne those vnwillingly whoÌ„ willingly he wold haue saued then is he not omnipotent Consider now vpon whom falleth the snowe and who do cast them selues in greatest absurdities Now it resteth to declare how violently ye wrest the wordes of the Prophet of the Apostle The Prophete speaking in the personne of God saith I will not the death of a sinner but rather that he conuert and liue And the Apostle affirmeth that God will all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth Hereupon ye conclude God will the death of no creature this is your first violence which you do to the text For the Prophet
all predestinate to lief for as our fall here is to damnation and death so is our staÌ„ding vnto saluatioÌ„ and lief Assuredly these reasons appear meruelous straÌ„ge to me and principally that which ye bring furth of falling and standing for it hath in the self plain contradiction for if we fell in Adam to death how can we stand in him now vnto lief If you had said as that our fall was to damnation and death so should our standing haue ben to saluatioÌ„ and lief ye might haue had som probabilitie For your error had onely stand in this that ye do not conâ—ider that Adam was not created to stand for euer in him self â–ª and much les his posteritie in him But when ye say as our fall is to death so is o r standing vnto lief you plainely speak what so euer ye think that yet either in AdaÌ„ either in our selues we both fall and stand But this do we vtterly abhorre for we fear not plainely to confesse that we haue no assurance either of standing either yet of lief but in Christ Iesus alone in whoÌ„ we be ingrafted and with out whoÌ„ we caÌ„ do nothing In few wordes to repete the answer of your former obiectioÌ„ In AdaÌ„ did no maÌ„ stand otherwise theÌ„ he did But he did staÌ„d w t coÌ„dition to fall and y t eueÌ„ to death Therefor in AdaÌ„ did none staÌ„d to lief The commoÌ„ sense of maÌ„ will approue y e first part of this my argumeÌ„t for who caÌ„ think that any disceÌ„ding of Adam by his meanes could haue greater libertie theÌ„ he hiÌ„ self had And the eueÌ„t aÌ„d that which folowed declareth the veritie of the second part For not onelie vpon Adam saieth the Apostle cam death But eueÌ„ from him descended death vnto all How then could any stand in him to lief Let reasonable men consider To proue that all were predestinat and chosen in AdaÌ„ before the fouÌ„datioÌ„s of the world were laid ye briÌ„g furth the testimony of Paul written in the first chap. to the Ephesians which we before haue entreated and therefor here I onely will open your falshed Wonder it is that shame should be so far past you that where the holie Gost plainely affirmeth that we were elected and chosen in Christe Iesus before the foundations of the world were laid that this election ye should affirm to be made in Adam If you obiect that you specifie not AdaÌ„ I answer that is all a like for of your former argumentes it easely may be espied whom ye vnderstand For when thus ye reason we did all stand in Adam ergâ— we were all predestinat to lief what is he that clearly may not perceaue that your meaning is that we were all predestinat to lief in Adam For els you had said nothing to proue your own purpose For we affirm that we were elected before the foundatioÌ„ of the world was laid But the controuersie standeth in whom We affirme and most coÌ„stantly beleue that in Christe Iesus the eternall Sonne of the eternall Father were we elected before all tymes This ye can not abyde and therefor ye seke all meanes to obscure the glorie of him to whoÌ„ the Father hath geuen all power in heauen and in earth somtymes ye say as now I haue declared that this election was made in Adame But whill that this will not serue you ye run to an other shift alledging that the Apostle speaketh here of a generall election of the hole world and a not of any certen election which should abyd for euer and so in shifting from one danger ye fall into another as after in examining of that your vain reason more euidently shall appere Ye instantly require that we will shew any testimonie of the scripture that hath reprobate any before the fouÌ„dations of the world If it be the pleasure of God to giue vnto you the spirite of wisdom and of reuelation by the knowledge of hiÌ„ self that the eies of your mynd may be illuminated that ye may know what is the hope to the which he hath called you and how rich is the glorie of that inheritance which he hath prepared for his saintes ye shall require no place more plaine nor more euident then the same which most ignorantly orels most maliciously ye do abuse for if there be any differeÌ„ce betwext the saintes the faithfull that be blessed with all spirituall benedictioÌ„ betwext those I say y t were elected in Christe Iesus before all tymes that in tyme be called and by the power of the holie spirite do giue obedieÌ„ce to the caller and so are made citizens with the saintes and houshold of God as they that are builded vpon the foundation of the Prophetes aÌ„d Apostles if any differeÌ„ce I say be betwext these former and these in whom the prince of this world doeth worke all filthynes and rebellioÌ„ whom he holdeth captiue at his pleasure who can not repent their detestable liues and therefor are reputed strangears from the common welth of Israel And further if ye will beleue Christ Iesus affirming and reioising that it pleased his Father to hyde the secretes of his kingdome from the prudent and wife and to reuele the same to litle ones aÌ„d that becaus it was his pleasure I trust ye shall confesse that those scriptures be plaine ynough to proue that as some were elected before the fouÌ„datioÌ„ of the world was laid so likewies were there others reprobated as the finall end of bothe doeth witnes But how ye wrestle against this argumeÌ„t we shall after heare aÌ„d how plainely I haue proued soÌ„ to be elected and others to be reprobated reade before aÌ„d iudge with indiffereÌ„cie If ye will coÌ„clude that God hath no certen election neither yet that he hath reprobated any becaus that he hath no respect of persones and becaus he calleth the world from the rising vp of the son to the going doune of the same becaus he made both small and great and careth as ye falsly alledge for bothe a like your affirmatioÌ„ may well be bolde but I think that your probation shal be sclender But first I must except against you as against fals witnes for you alledge more vpon Elihu theÌ„ in the book of Iob he affirmeth For he saieth not that God careth for all a like But saieth that his eies are vpon the waies of man and that he doeth se all his goinges And that neither you neither any other shall haue occasion to complain of me that vniustly I accuse you of falsifying the plain text I will recite bothe the purpose and the wordes Iob in vehemeÌ„cie of disputation against his thre frendes who constantly did affirm that God prouoked by his sinnes had powred furth those sodane and strange plagues vpon him Iob I say in refelling this their accusation and in confuting their reasons did enter into the secretes of gods inscrutable iudgementes further theÌ„ it became any creature to do and did seme to
same And will also touche the rest of these your argumentes so briefly as I can Where ye reason that we were all created in one mā that is in Adam So were we all created in one estate c. If ye vnderstād that we were all created in one estate that is in that estate which shortly was to change becaus that God had so determined in his eternal counsell that by the fall of one his infinite mercie towardes his chosen ād seuere iudgement towardes the vessels of wraith should euidently appere in the tyme appointed by his wisdom If this I say you vnderstand that we were all created in one estate I will not contend with you Albeit in verey dede in that self same masse there were at once vessels of mercy ād vessels of wraith But because ye open yo ◠minde in the cōtrarie part saing That we were created in Adam after the image of God to lief I am compelled vtterly to dissent from you and fear not to affirme that becaus none did stand to the end in that image but all fell euē to death in Adam that therefor neither in Adam neither yet in that image as Adam had it was any created vnto lief but in Christ Iesus were all the chosen predestinate to lief euerlasting euen before that euer Adam was created as the Apostle plainely doeth witnes Where ye go about to proue by our opinion the ordinance of God in his election before the world not to be conforme to his ordinance in the creation and so consequently God to be a transgressor and inconstant ye declare your self not onely ignorāt vaine and foolishe but also irreuerent and blasphemous against gods maiestie for ye so far as in you lieth spoile him of his Godhead making him to chāge his counsell purpose and ordinance euen so oft as the creatures do chāge where we by the cōtrarie labour to explane ād not to escaip any violēce of your dartes by a bare solution as ye alledge but by the plaine scriptures openly we do affirme that as our God is eternall incomprehensible and immutable so are his counsels constant subiect to no immutabilitie nor change cōstant I say in God him self how so euer thinges change to our apprehensiō And therefor we say that neither in his election before the world neither in his creation of man to his own image and similitude was it his eternall coūsell purpose nor ordināce that all the posteritie of Adam should be saued And so can ye not proue that God destroyed any thing which he had builded Albeit to note one thing by the way Paule wold not haue bene so bold as to haue made him self check mate with God he did not I say accuse God of inconstancie neither did he appoint him to be a transgressor althogh he builded the ceremonies vnder the Law and destroied them againe But to our purpose 〈◊〉 I say destroied nothing which he had builded True it is that man destroied that image which God had builded but that building of God was but temporall and for a tyme onely but the perfect building of his churche was in Christe Iesus builded before the foundations of the world were laid which building God neuer destroied nor shall destroy but shall cōsummate the work to the praise of his holie name To him be glory In your hole reasoning of the wordes of the Apostle you do erre in this point as before I haue noted that ye make cōmon to all that which y e holie Gost maketh peculiare to gods elect for ye must first proue all to be saintes by vocation all to be blessed with spirituall benediction and to haue obeyed and all to be builded vpon the foundatiō of the Prophetes ād Apostles before y t ye be able to proue that all were elected and predestinate in Christ Iesus before all tymes That we are created in Christe Iesus vnto good workes is not to be referred as ye think to the common creation of all men in Adam but to the new and spirituall regeneration which gods children haue in Christ Iesus for the which Dauid did pray saying a cleā heart creat in me ô God which is no lesse called the creation of God then was the first creation of man for as man in his creation neither wroght neither yet could deserue to be created so honorable as he was but did suffer the power of God to worke euen as it pleased his wisdom to perfourm the work So in our new creation vnto good workes the onely grace and power of God worketh not onely the beginning but also bringeth to perfection so that what so euer be good holie or iust in vs is gods creation and not our worke God open your eies that ye may se that neither in Adam neither yet in our selues were we created to good workes but in Christe Iesus alone And then I think ye will not so much boast of your fre will Your last as after ye do reason is a plain Paralogisme that is a Sophisticall and fals argument for it stādeth on foure termes against the vse of all good and solide reasoning For thus ye procede Saing we be elect and created in Christe Iesus and seing there is no condemnation to them that be in Christe Iesus then is there no damnation neither in the election nor creation Here be plainely foure termes for in your Maior that is in the first part of your argument ye say not we were elected and created in our election and in our creation but we were elected ād created in Christ Iesus The secōd propositiō is most trew to witt that there is no condēnation to them that be in Christe Iesus to such as walk not after the fleshe but what can ye conclude hereof that no damnation say you is in election nor in creation I say your conclusion is fals and vaine for you chāge your termes putting in the last part these two wordes Election and creation where ye oght to haue rehearesed these wordes Christ Iesus for thus you may well procede we be elected ād created to good workes in Christ Iesus but to them saieth the Apostle that be in Christ Iesus there is no cōdemnation Ergo to such as be elected and newly created in Christe Iesus there is no damnation This argument is formall and true but omitting your foolishnes which oftener I am compelled to shew then gladly I wold I go forward with your wordes THE ADVERSARIE If God reprobated man afore the foundation of the world then God reprobated man before he offended And if God reprobated and damned man afore be offended then is death the reward of gods ordināce afore the world ād not the reward of sinne But the Apostle teacheth vs that by sinne death entred into the world and also that death is the reward of sinne I pray you doeth either gods lawe or mannes law condemne any man afore he hath offended I am certen ye are not able to
so shall thy nauel be hole and thy bones strong â–ª And Iâ— but is not we that can fynde out the almightie for in power equitie and righteousnes he is hiegher then can be expressed Let men therefor feare him for there shall no man se him that is wise in his own conceat we must not â—eke out the sâ—cretes of God for we shall not preuaile but bring our selues to consufion If we go about to establishe our opinions by gods secret will we must nedes fâ—ll in horrible darcknes and errors for who can know what the will of God is we must submitt our selues with all humilitie to the word and there with great reuerence search out such things as are written for our comfort and edification which we can not duelie vnderstand without the spirit of God to teache vs as it is written oh Lord who can haue knowledge of thy vnderstanding and meaning except thâ—w giue him wisdom and send thy holy Gost from aboue But if we prepare our selues with râ—uerence to read the word of God to the intent to vnderstand it to our consolation and with humilitie submâ—t our selues to do it God will open to vs so much as is ether necessarie or profitable for vs. ANSWER What confirmation our doctrine hath by the inuincible and most euident testimonies of gods holie scriptures I will not now dispute onely I must coÌ„pleine that maliciously and most impudently ye wrest our wordes and peruert our myndes And for the probatioÌ„ thereof I say that ye are neuer able to shew in any of our writings the wordes and sentences which in this place ye affirme vs to say ye be neuer able I say to proue that we haue written or taught that God by his reueled will will all men to be saued and yet by his secrete will he willeth many to be damned That by his reuâ—led will he willeth no wickednes but by his secret will he will Pharao to be hard hearted Semei to curse Dauid the Patriarkes to sell their brother Ioseph that by his reueled will he wolde not that Adam shoulde fâ—ll but by his secret will he willeth Adam to fall These propositions I say you be neuer able to shew in our writinges nether yet to proue that our doctrine did or doth tend to that end for we constantly affirme that God reueled vnto vs his most holie and most iust wil in his plaine and holie scriptures which do assure vs that a separation shal be made betwext the goates and the lambes that the one shal receaue the kingdom propared vnto them before all beginning and that the other shal be adiudged to the fyre which neuer shal be quenched That God stirred and raised vp Pharao that his power might be declared in him that these wordes God plainely spoke to Moises I know that Pharao shal not permitte the people to depart therefore haue I hardened his heart that I may multiplie my woÌ„ders vpon him that Dauid did represse the furie of Abisai and of his seruantes who wolde haue killed Semei saying suffre him to curse for the Lord hath commanded him the Lord perchance shal behold my affliction and shal reward me with good for his cursing this day That Ioseph said to his bretheren be you not moued with sorow y â— ye haue solde me for the Lord hath sent me for conseruation of a great multitude it is not therefore you that haue sent me hither but God who hath made me father to Pharao and Lord ouer his hole house None of all these I say do we cast vpon gods secrete will as ye falsly accuse vs but we do constantly affirme that his will is so plainely reueled in these maters that such as shall denie any of them to haue bene gods wil can not escape abnegation of his eternall veritie And further we say that the fall of man is plainely reueled vnto vs not onely by experience but euen by that same law which was imposed to him shortly after his creation the transgression whereof made Adam and all his posteritie criminall and giltie to gods iustice that nether against gods wil reueled nether yet against his secrete wil. for by his will reueled can no man further conclude but this that in what day soeuer AdaÌ„ should eate of the frute forbiddeÌ„ that he should die the death But Adam against gods command ement did eat and therefor did he iustly vnderly the sentence of death And thus do we referre to gods will manifestly reueled what soeuer ye imagin that we ascribe to his secret will Nether yet nede you to maruell if ye list to take such paines as to read our writiÌ„ges where that we finde the doctryne that we teach your surmised lie we cast vpon your selues seing that Moises the prophetes Christ Iesus and his Apostles in all writings do affirme the same But yet lest that ye should think that we attribute nothing to gods secret wil I will in few wordes confesse what we teach maintein and beleue in that case And that the rather because you gather agreate absurditie not of our doctryne but of that which ye falsely imput vpon vs in this maner for asmuch you say as the secrete will of God is knowen to none but to him self alone Who hath reueled it to you how can you say this is gods secret will if it was gods secret will that Adam should fall and you knew it â–ª then it is both secret and vnsecret both reueled and vnreueled both knowen and vnknowen What greate absurditie is this To the which I answere according to your impudeÌ„t foolishnes that because you fight with your owne shadowe these yo r dartes do hurt vs nothing for we do not affirme that we do knowe the fall of man by gods secret will but by his will manifestly reueled vnto vs by his holie scriptures Or more plainly to answer yo r reasons which you think inuincible we say that that wil which was secret in God before all time was reueled to man in time by his owne word and that from time to to time the same became more manifest as sainct Paul witnesseth in these wordes To me the least of all saintes is giuen this fauor or grace that I should preach amoÌ„gest the GeÌ„tiles the vnsearchable riches of Christe That I should bring forth to light before all meÌ„ what is y e coÌ„munion of the mysterie w c was hid from all ages in God who hath made all things by Christ Iesus that the manifest wisdome of God may nowe be notified to principates and powers in heauenlie things by the Church according to the fore appointment of the ages which he hath made in Christ Iesus our lorde so that we are now bold to say that albeit no creature did knowe before all time what ordre God should kepe in the creation and disposition of all thinges in time yet may we nowe I say be bolde to affirme that the secrete was hidde in the
but how litle this knowledge serued for their saluation the Apostle doth witnes And therfore I say that your Master is more then impudeÌ„t v t dare preferre nature and reason to gods scriptures And further his venom in so saing is more daÌ„gerous then if plainely he had affirmed that nature reasone alone had bene sufficient to haue instructed man in al thinges apperteining to saluation For so declaring him self the simple should haue auoyded that error as a pestileÌ„ce most pernicious But now in ioining together those thinges which God hath so manifestly deuided as he hath deuided light from darcknes he doth nothing els but as a traiterous murtherer mixe and mingle poison with swete lyquore For in ioining nature and reason with gods scriptures in the manifestatioÌ„ of God to mans saluation he doth plainely witnes that the naturall man may boldly pronounce that those workes be none of gods wherof reason can not see a iust cause why so they should be wroght For the fall of Adam say you and the induration of Pharao the deceauing of Achab and such others were none of gods workes But they came by his permission and why so Because the naturall man can not see how such workes can agree with gods goodnes and iustice And thus ye deny him to be the true God who doth not laye before the blindnes of yo r reason all his workes that they by her iudgement may be iustified or condemned O blasphemous mouthes dare ye denie him to be the true God of whom Moses Iob Dauid and Paule affirme that his secretes do apperteine to him self that he will not make accompte to man of all his workes That his counsels are incomprehensible his iudgementes a greate depth and his wayes vnsearchable Thus much for that which ye omitte of yo r masters wordes in his description which I now admonish lest after ye should trouble the simple with these your vanities which from time to time ye foster and spred abrode Now to the second which I will but onely touch to put you in minde that in doctrine ye are not constant for before ye haue affirmed that we did all staÌ„d in Adam before that we did fall For none say you falleth but he that standeth If we did all stand then were we all predestinate to life And after As we were all created in one man that is in Adam so were we all created in one estate that is after the image of God Of which places it is plaine that ye vnderstand that in Adam we were created to gods image in Adam we were elected and in Adam we were placed in paradise which you call the blessed life But here you change your tune and say He hath made man like to his owne image in Christe Iesu in whom is no damnation What should be the cause of this your sodein recantation and alteration of your senteÌ„ce I can not well coniecture except it be this That because experience doth conuict you that by Adam we are all wounded to death that therfor you wolde al should receaue life by Christe Iesus And that doth your master affirme in bold and euident wordes saing This God will all men to be saued and that none shall perish and therfor hath he sent his SoÌ„ne into the earth whose iustice should superabound where so euer sinne hath abounded This doth your master boldly affirme because he wrote to his practised souldiours y t which ye do in darcke wordes persuade But how vaine be both your persuasions shall shortly appere by examining the scriptures by you both alledged He groundeth his error vpon the wordes of Paule plainely falsified and of Iohn the Euangelist whom he applieth not rightly If you thinke me bolde that thus do accuse your master great angell of falsifying gods scriptures heare my profe and then iudge He saith whersoeuer sinne hath abounded there hath grace super abounded Which wordes the Apostle doth not speake but saith where sinne hath abounded there hath grace more abounded which proposition is most true as it is most comfortable For in Adam Dauid Peter and in all other gods elect children did and doth sinne abound as the Apostle proueth all to haue sinned and to haue nede of gods glorie But in them did grace more abound by the which they were deliuered from the multitude of sinnes But as your proposition is not expressed by the Apostle so it is most fals which is most easie to be proued For in Cain Pharao Iudas Pilate Annas Caiphas Herode and many other did sinne abound but in them did grace neuer so abound that they were absolued from that damnation which is pronounced against all vnfaithfull in these wordes Who so euer shall not beleue shal be condemned And therfor I say that your masters vniuersall proposition is most fals and he not onely a falsisier of the plaine scriptures but also a mainteiner of all impietie of all idolatrie and wicked religion For if it shal be admitted that where so euer sinne hath abounded there shall grace more abound then shall there be no differeÌ„ce betwene the condition of those that beleue in Christe and those that be despisers of his Euangile offered Let the indiffereÌ„t reader iudge whether that you or we do now more smel of a careles and a libertines life But this after The wordes of the Euangelist are plainely wrested For he affirmeth not that euery man is illuminated to saluation nether yet that Christe is offered as ye wold shift to euery man But speaking of the excelleÌ„cie of Christ Iesus in whom was life and by whom all thinges were created he saith this was the true light which doth illuminate all men that come into this world In which wordes he speaketh nothing of mannes redemption nether yet of any light which man receaueth necessarie for the same But onely of that light which was giâ—eÌ„ to man in his creatioÌ„ a part whereof how small so euer it be doth yet remaine in man â–ª and that not by his own power but by the free gift of God in whom we liue are moued and haue our being And that the Euange list speaketh nothing of the light of our redemption is euident by his owne wordes For before and after he doth witnes that the light did shine in darckenes but darckenes did not appreheÌ„d it that is receaue aknowledge it That he came amongest his owne but his owne did not receaue him that such as did receaue him were nether borne of blood of the will of the flesh nether yet of the will of man but of God By which wordes it is manifest that the Euangelist most euidently declareth that the light of saluation is not coÌ„mon vnto all but y t it is propre to those onely y t are borne of God He doth further teach that all reason and naturall vnderstanding which man hath by his first birth is so choked so blinded and extinguished that man must nedes be borne againe
it shall please God to assist my weakenes I will not spare labors to communicate with my brethern what pestilence lurketh in your enuenomed doctrine to the end that all the faithful may auoyde the same You fearing to forget any thing of your master Castalios â—currilitie do thus conclude THE ADVERSARIE And as for you Careles mâ—n you oght to take it in good worth what so euer I haue said â–ª first because it is trueth Secondly because ye holde that all things â—e doâ—e of mere necessiâ—ie then haue I written this of necessitie ANSWER To the which I answere that if the deuill were not a lier and the father not of lyes onely but also of all deceatful lyers it were not possible that you who in so manie thinges haue declared your selues horrible lyers should vainly bragge that ye haue writteÌ„ the trueth For besides those odious crimes which most impudently and most falsely you lay to our charge amongest al the scriptures by you alledged their are not three which ye do not abuse yea and in some ye do so openly belye the holy Gost that you conclude contrarie to his expressed wordes But when I coÌ„sider that your Master father Satan him self eshamed not in the presence of Christe Iesus to boast and to bragge that all the power and glorie of the earth was giuen vnto him and that he gaue it to such as best pleased him wheÌ„ yet in very dede he had no power to giue to his felow angelles and companions of darkenes licence to enter into the bellies of swine till that he aÌ„d they were faine to begge that pleasant palace of him to whom all power is giuen in heauen and in earth When this I saye I do considre I do more lament your miserable blindnes then that I can stomake against your vanitie except in so farre as to the ende I must saye that such as obstinatelye denie the plaine trewth of God are lyers and the sonnes of that lier who first deceaued man and powred into his hart the same venome and error which this day ye teach and mainteine For he was bold to affirme that wisdom and lyfe was to be found by other meanes then God had determined yea where God had pronounced death and damnation he promised saluatioÌ„ and life and so do you For God hath apointed life to none of his elect but in Christe Iesus onely aÌ„d that by such meanes as in his holy word expressed which are trew faith continuall repentance abnegation of our selues of owr owne iustice and wisdom aÌ„d finally by receauing of free grace in Christe Iesus whatsoeuer we haue lost in Adam But ye ashame not to affirme that the iustice of Christe sufficeth vs not except that we haue a personall iustice of our owne How coldely ye speake or write of his death of his resurrection of his mediation and perpetuall intercession is euident Your bragging and prowd boasting of your owne iustice and of your greate perfectioÌ„ are euident tokens how you do agree with Christe Iesus the trueth and veritie it self who commandeth vs to saye not for the fashioÌ„ but from vnfeined heartes we are vnprofitable seruantes But some of you in your iesting eshame not to saye â–ª that ye are not two thousand passes distant from the fulnes of perfection But this your vanitie your blasphemies excepted doth not greately offend vs. For a small pricke of of a pinne or of a nelde shal be sufficieÌ„t to declare that bladders be they neuer so streitly blowen conteine in them selues nothing but wind That by necessitie you haue written your railing blasphemies and most impudent lies we easily confesse For seing that ye are the sede of the serpent I meane such as in your error shall continue to the end what thing can you els do but of necessitie spew forthe veÌ„nom wheÌ„ the weight of gods eternall veritie beginneth a litle to presse downe your head for so doeth the serpent whensoeuer she is touched But why do ye not considre seing ye be reasonable serpentes that like as prowdly ye lift your selues against the glorie of the eternall Sonne of God and as ye cease not maliciousely to slander suche instrumeÌ„tes as in his Church be most profitable and most wort hie of prayse in the eyes of all godly that likewise of necessitie it is that ye come to ruine that your pride be repressed and your blasphemous tongues be coÌ„founded for euer seing that God who hatch all iniquitie must nedes resist the proude destroy the lying lippes and remoue from his societie suche as declare them selues enemies to his eternall veritie the knowledge wherof we confesse with Iob commeth onely by inspiration of the holy Gost and doth not procede from flesh or blood from studie care or wordly wisdome but is the free gift of God reueled to the lytle ones and comonly hid from the wisest of the world Which sentence wold God that depely ye could wey for then I doubt not but y â— ye should clearely se that to come to Christe Iesus is nether of the runner â–ª nether yet of the 〈◊〉 but of God who sheweth mercie to such as pleasâ—â—â— him whose counselles eternal and iudgementes mâ—st profound can no creature apprehend and compasse and therâ—fore oght all the true seruantes of God with reuerence and with trembling saye O how incomprehensible are thy iudgementes ô Lord and how vnsearchable are thy wayes for of thee by thee and for thee are all things To thee be glorie for euer and euer So be it Isaiah 54. EVERIE TONGVE THAT SHAL CONTEND WITH THEE IN IVDGEMENT THE SAME SHALT THOV MOST RIGHTLY CONDEMNE Fautes escaped in the printing In the 24. page the 19. line not for nor In the 33. page the 4. line Curthe for Church In the 95. page the 17. line displease for displeasure In the 117. page in the margent gode for gods In the 153. page the 21. line through for thoght In the 193. page the 32. line maciously for maliciously In the 165. page the 6. line yea for yet In y e 204. page the 3. line thy penne for my penne In the 263. page line 3. A scaoth for Asteroth In the same page the 16. line yet the became for yet he became In the 199. page the 24. line and affirming for and we affirming In the 312. page the 34. line 24. for 23. In the 321 page the last line defacedâ— for defaced to his vttermost In the 322. page the 18. line good reasonly for goodly reason In the 435. page the 18 line cheir for their Ephes. 1. 3 2. Cor. 2. 1â— Esaie 8. 14 2. Cor. 2. 16 1. Cor. 1. 28 Iohn 1. 5 Matt. 27. 38. Act. 2. 23 Companions of the trueth Matt 1. 7 1. Cor. 11 19 Luke 7. 13 Sathan hath euerraged against the fre mercies of God Ephes. 2. 8 How Satan drew maÌ„first from God The cause of the writing of this worke The necessitie of the doctrine of gods eternall predestination The
that of nature we were all the sonnes of wraeth If ye alledge that the apostle speaketh in that place of man as he is corrupted in Adame and so iustly depriued from gods fauor then I demand of you if man doth yet staÌ„d in Adame which if ye confesse the holie spirit shall conuict you of alie For by the mouth of the Apostle he affirmed that by one maÌ„ sinne entred in to the world aÌ„d by the meanes of sinne death came vpon all men so that in the first man Adame who fell frome his puritie haue we neither loue iustice nor life but y e coÌ„traries to wit hatred sinne aÌ„d deaâ—h But God as he had chosen his elect before all beginning in Christe Iesus his Sonne so hath he placed these giftes in the second Adam alone â–ª that of his fulnes we may all receaue euen grace for grace And thus ye may easely perceaue how vane be your arguments which you iudged most strong Your first drawen from nature and naturall inclination proueth nothing becaus that God who is alwaies fre can not be subiect to the lawes of nature Albeit that for our weaknes he some tymes vseth similitudes taken from nature Your second is like vaine seing that neither Adam him self did stand in his perfection neither is any of his corrupted sede as he is the soÌ„ of Adam borne in that coÌ„dition aÌ„d dignitie But coÌ„trarie wise we must refuse fleshe and blood nature and our first AdaÌ„ if euer we shall be partakers of life This onely were sufficient to confute bothe your vnreasonable reasons But that here after ye shall haue no accasion to complain of obscurite neither yet that we relent in any parte I will first simply propose what we teach and beleue and there after by gods grace euidently proue the same You make the loue of God common to all men and that do we constantly deny and say that before all beginning God hath loued his elect in Christ Iesus his Sonne and that frome the same eternitie he hath reprobate others whom for most iust causes in the tyme appointed to his iudgement he shall adiuge to tormentes and fier inextinguible Here you stomak and storme here ye crie blasphemie and here you say that we affirme that which can not be proued by gods scriptures How sure is the probation of the former part let the indifferent reader iudge by that which is all ready spoken Let vs now come to the second And that ye shall not think that I shall more depend vpon argumentes and reason then vpon scripture I will begin with scripture and let argumentes and reason serue onely in stede of hande maides which shall not command but obey scripture pronounced by the voyce of God After that by rebellion man was spoiled of all graces and that the contrarie vices had taken place and possession in the heartes of bothe these miserable creatures of Adam I mean and of the woman God pronouÌ„ced this senteÌ„ce agaiÌ„st the serpeÌ„t Because thow hast done this cursed art thow amoÌ„gst all the beastes of the earth I shall establish enemitie betwext the aÌ„d that womaÌ„ betwext thy sede and her sede That sede shall break downe thy head and thow shalt break doune his hele As I suppose no man wil be so impudent as to deny that this is the voice of God pronouncing and promising that he will stablish and put a battel where none was appering to be for sathan before had obteined such victorie and so had vanquished bothe the woman and Adam that they could neuer haue resisted that seruitude by them selues And therefor doth he disclose the bowelles of his mercie and doth communicat with them that counsell which was secrete with him selfe before all begining And if ye demande How can it be proued that this was his eternall counsell I answer because that he in whom there is no changeing nor variablenes hath now pronounced it and whether this reason be sufficient or not in answering to your obiection we shall after consider Now resteth it onely to be obserued whether it was the will of God or not to make a difference betwext man and man Plaine it is that before his face as touching the first birth there standeth but one lompe or masse as saint Paul termeth it and yet from the same are two sedes appointed to spring which are the two churches The elect conteined vnder the sede of the woman and the reprobate or malignant church comprehended vnder the name of the serpentes sede To the one is promised victorie to the other is denounced by the irreuocable sentence of God the â–ª broosing of the head which is destruction and confusion I think ye will not say that he was constreined ther to by any force exterior as we speake seing he is the eternall which changeth not euer abiding Lord ouer all creatures who may and doth performe what so euer he will in heauen and in earth Then of necessitie it must folowe that this battell is appointed by his will And that do the wordes plainely beare For he saieth not I know that there shall be a battell or I will suffer and permitt as you vse to interprete such places a battel to be but he plainely saieth I will put and stablish the battel and enemitie declaring thereby that as he was the force strengthe and the conductor to the sede of the woman so wolde he most assuredly giue victorie to the same Which thing S. Augustine diligently did note and godly admonished Affirming that our condition in Christe Iesus is now better and more sure then before was the condition of Adam in his own fre will For that that he had non other strength but that which might be and was ouercome But we haue the strength that is inuincible because it is the power of the eternall This one place I say doeth most euidently proue that God willingly maketh a difference betwext man and man appointing to the one sorte victorie and lief to the other subiection and death But yet ye reply this can not be proued to be the eternall couÌ„sell of God for it is pronouÌ„ced in respect of the faith workes and obedience of the one and in respect of the infidelitie vicious liuing and inobedience of the other Your obiection which here I now intreat that after I be the les troubled hath two membres the former will I now touche abiding better oportunitie for the other Where ye alledge that this can not be proued to haue bene the eternall counsell of God becaus it was pronounced in tyme your reason appereth and is more then foolish For what is he that agaiÌ„st he plain scripture of God will affirme this reason The kingdome of heauen sâ—albe giuen in the end of the world to the elect of God therefor it was not prepared to them before the beginning Doth not I say the plaine voice of Christ condemne this vaine reason Or if I should