maye se his wayes walke in theÌ„ praysinge the lorde eternallye Amen The first boke whych is an an swere vnto Rastels dialoge THere is no maÌ„ as I think that hath a natural wirte but he wil graunte me that thys boke of Rastels makinge is either true or false If it be false then how so euer it seme to agre wyth naturall reason it is not to be alowed yf it be true then must we approue it Naturall reason must be ruled by scripture If naturall reason conclude agenst scrypture so is it false but if it be agreynge to scripture then is it to be harde Of this maye I conclude that if Rastels boke be agreinge to scripture then is it true and to be alowed yf it determe contrarye to the scripture then is it false and to be abhorred how so euer it seme to agre with naturall reason Now is there no christen man but he beleueth surelye that if Chryst had not dyed for oure sin nes we shuld all haue bene dampned perpetuallye and neuer haue entred in to the ioyes of heauen which thynge is easye to be proued for paule sayeth Roma 5. As thorow one mannés sinne that is Adam ensued deth in all men vnto condemnacyon Euen so thorow one mannes right wisnes which is christ came right wysnes in all men vnto the iustificacyon of lyfe Also Johan xi It it necessarye that one man dye for the people that all the people perish not so that we had bene condempned had perished perpe tuallye if christ had not died for vs. But Rastel wyth hys turcke Gingemin exclude Christ and know not of hys deeth wherfore all the reasoÌ„s that they can make vnto domesdaye can neuer proue purgatorye excepte they imagyne that we must fyrst go to purgatorye and then after 〈◊〉 hell for this is a playne conclusion that with out christ whoÌ„ they exclude we caÌ„ neuer come to heauen what fondnes were it then to inveÌ„t a purgatorye Now maye you se that Rastels boke is fullye answered and syeth all readye in the dirte And that hys thirde dialoge is all fal se aÌ„d iniurious vnto the bloude of christ As for the first and seconde dialoge although there be some erroures both agenst diuinite aÌ„d all good philosophye yet wil I passe them ouer for they are not so blaspemous agenst god and his christ as the thyrde is Not with stondinge I wyll not thus leaue hys boke although I myght full well but I wyll declare vnto you what solucyons he maketh to these seauen weake reasons whych he hath propounded hym silfe for he auoydeth theÌ„ so slenderlye that yf a man had any doubte of purgatorie before it wolde make him swere on a boke that there were none at al. Besides that it hath not onesolucioÌ„ but there are in it certeÌ„ poyntes repugnaunte vnto scripture so that it is greate shame that any cristen man shulde preÌ„ te it moch more shame that it shulde be prented with the kinges priuilege The first and chefest reason that moueth thys man yee and all other to affirme purgatorye is thys which he putteth both in the first chaptre oâ—… hys thirde dialoge aÌ„d also in the last Man sayeth he is made to serue and honoure god now if man be negligent aboute the commaundmentes of god and committe some veniall sinne for which he ought to be punyshed by the iustice of god and dye sodenlye with out repentaunce and haue not made suffycyent satisfaccyon vnto god here in the 〈◊〉 hys sou le ought neyther immediatlye to come in to the gloryous place of heaueÌ„ because it is sum what defouled with sinne neyther ought it to go to hell vnto eternall dampnacy on buâ—… by all good 〈◊〉 of iustice that soule must be puâ—… gâ—…d in a nother place to make 〈◊〉 for those effences that it maye afterwarde be receâ—…ued in to the gloryous place of heaueÌ„ And so by y â— iusti ce of god there must nedes he a purgatorye 〈◊〉 this reason hath â—…ome apperaunre of truth the similitnde of Wiâ—…dom how be it in dede it is nothinge but mannes imaginacy on and phantasie For if we coÌ„pare it vnto â—…od des worde then vanisheth it awaye But we re garde not the worde of the lorde and therfore chaunceth euen the same thinge vnto vs that happened before vnto the chyldren of Israell psal 81. My people regarded not my voyce and Israell gaue no head vnto me therfore let I theÌ„ go after the appetites of their awne hartes They shall wandre in thyer awne imaginacioÌ„s Now what go they aboute in this their inuencyon and imaginacyoÌ„ of purgatorye but to pon dre the ustice of god in the balance of mannes iustice 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is no reason that we shulde entre in to heauen which haue not here satisfy 〈◊〉 vnto god for oure iniquite excepte that we shuld be tour meÌ„ted purefyed in a nother place we were surelie in euell takinge if god were of maÌ„nes coÌ„plexyon whych remitteth y â— faute reserueth the payne Naye naye 〈◊〉 is not greadie to be aueÌ„ged He tristeth not after oure blonde but suffered al tourmeÌ„tes in his awne bodie to deliuer vs froÌ„ the paynes y â— we had de serued But 〈◊〉 they 〈◊〉 their reason so stronge 〈◊〉 I will conâ—…ute it with one 〈◊〉 y â— they shall not knowe whether to toue ne theÌ„ But first I will grouÌ„dâ—… me vppon thys scripture S. pause 〈◊〉 1. Chessa 4. on thys maner we y â— liue and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in y â— cominge of the lorde vnto â—…udgemet shall not come yerte they y â— slepe for the 〈◊〉 de 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 shal descende from heaueÌ„ with a shute aÌ„d y e voice of the archangle aÌ„d tâ—…ompe oâ—… god And y â— deed in christ shal arise first theÌ„ shall we which 〈◊〉 re mayne be caught vp with theÌ„ also in y â— cloudes to mete the lorde in the ayer and so shall we euer be with y â— lorde Now harkeÌ„ to mi queitioÌ„ Those men that shalbe founde alyue at the last daye for as it was in the time of Noe euen so shall y â— last daye come uâ—…pon vs vnwares as a thefe in the night Mat. 24. those meÌ„ I speake of shal any of theÌ„ be saued or not There is no man that lyueth but he maye well saye hys pa ter noster of the which one parte is forgeue vs lorde oure trespaces as we forgeue them y â— tres pace ageÌ„st vs therfore is no maÌ„ pure and wyth out all sinne And this coÌ„firmeth S. Jo. sayenge If we saye we haue no sinne we deceaue ou re selues and the truth is not in vs. i. Iohan. i. what remedie now shal they al be daÌ„ned The re is no doubte but some of them shall not be verie euell all though they haue not made suffi cient satisfaccioÌ„ vnto god in thys worlde they ought not to go vnto hel to
wherfore yt ys onlye the 〈◊〉 pes faute whâ—…h hath the satisfaction in his po wer and wyll not geue it till he haue monye aÌ„d not goddes faute which must nedes tarie vntyl satisfactyon be made And so ys thys reason as stronge as it was before and the pope proued a cruell tyraunte BUt yet to excuse the pope he sayeth It ys not mete that the pope shulde be so quycke in delyueraunce for so shulde he geue a gre ate occasyon to men boldlye to falle in to synne and lytle to care or feare how slowlye they ryse agayne and that were not mete for hys offyce Horsouth thys ys a ientle reason He maye not be quicke in delyueraunce because he shulde geue men occasyon of synne But for one penye he wyll quyte delyuer you and that wyth spead For yf ye offer a penye vnto Saynt Dominykes boxe assone as ye hâ—…are the penye rin ge in the boxe even so sone ys the soule in heaven Call you not that quicke delyueraunce If you geue not that penye then maye he not delyuer the soule for yt shulde be an occasyon of synne But yf you geve that penye then is there no such occasyon of synne Such greate vertue hath that one penye in Master Mo res sight that yt clene wypeth awaye the occasyon of synne Hurthermore yf thys redempcyon maye be done for monye yt shalbe stylle an occasyon vnto the rych that they regarde not synne and yet had they more nede to be brydled then â—…he poore for where richesse and abundaunce is there raigneth sinne most of all How be it I haue shewed sufficientlve before agenst Rastell that they which feare not to sinne but for fea re of purgatorie shal never come in it but be daÌ„ ned in hell For we shulde not abstayne from sinne for any feare but for the pure loue that we haue to god oure most mercyfull father cÌ„ THen cometh Master More to this imagi nacyon that we shulde saye how no mannes prayer or good dead caÌ„ helpe a nother And sayeth he if that were true then coulde not christes bitter passion profite vs. Sir myne opinion of Christes deeth is this We haue al sinned in Adam with out oure aw ne consent and worke And we are losed from sinne thorow Christ with out oure workes or deservinges Sinne is comen in to the worlde thorow Adam and is punished with deeth The deeth thorow Christ is tourned in to a me dicyne and clene finisheth sinne One mannes sinne which is Adam hath condeÌ„ ned manye men One mannes grace which is Christe hath vanqueshed sinne and holpen manye If one mannes sinne be able to condemne vs with out oure workes Then moch more is goddes grace of power to saue vs with out oure workes Sinne thorow Adam was planted in vs. Grace thorow Christ is planted in vs. Sinne hath had dominion ouer all men thorow Adam Grace prevayleth ouer vs thorow Christe Deeth thorow sinne is planted in vs. Liffe thorow grace is planted in vs Deeth thorow sinne hath dominion over vs. Liffe thorow grace prevayleth ouer vs. Sinne and deeth haue condemned all men Grace and liffe haue saved all men Thorow Adam Adams sinne was counted oure awne Thorow Christ Christes rightwysnesse is repu ted vnto vs for oure awne Of this maye you perceave that we thinke that Christes deeth profiteth vs for we take his deeth and resurrection for oure hole redeâ—… cyon and saluacyon Now as concerninge mennes good deades and prayers I saye that they profitte oure neyghboures yee and good workes were ordeyned for that entent that I shulde profite my neyghboure thorow them And prayer ought to be made to god for everye state But if I shulde graunte that such workes and prayers shuld helpe them that are departed then shulde I speake cleane with out my bo ke for the worde of god knoweth no such thinge Let them therfore that praye for the deed exa mine them selves well with what faith they do it for faith leaneth onlye on the worde of god so that where his worde is not there can be no good faith and if their prayer procede not of faith surelye it can not please god Hebre. xj NOw suppose sayeth master More y t purgatorye coulde in no wyse be proved by scri pture and that some wolde yet saye playnlye y t there were one and some wolde saye playnlye naye let vs now se whether sorte of these twayne might take most harme if their parte were y e wronge Furst he that beleved there were purâ—… and that his prayer and good workes wrought for his frendes soules might relyeve them therin and because of that vsed moch pra per and almose for them he coulde not lese y â— rewarde of his good will although his opinioÌ„ we re vntrue and that there were no purgatorye at all But on the tother side he that beleveth there is none and therfore prayeth for none if his opinion be false and that there be purgatorye in dead he lesâ—…th moch good and getteth him al so moch harme For he both feareth moch lesse to sinne and to lye longe in purgatorie savinge that his heresye shall kepe him thence and sende him doune depe in to hell I answere that he shulde take most harme that beleved there were a purgatorye if his opinion were wronge and coulâ—…e not be proved by the scripture as master More supposed for he shulde sinne and transgresse agenst the lawe of god which sayeth Deuteronomye xij That I commaunde the y t onlye do vnto the lorde neyther adde any thinge nor diminish And before in the. iiij chaptre of y â— same boke yee shall not adde vnto the worde that I speake vnto you neyther shall ye take any thinge from it And agayne in the. v. chaptre ye shall not decline neyther to the right hand doinge y â— which is good in youre awne sight neyther yet vnto y â— left haÌ„de doinge that which I manifestlie forbide you as though he shulde saye do that onlye which I coÌ„maunde the. And where master More sayeth y t he can not lese the rewarde of his good will although his opinion be vntrue I answere yes for it is but chosen holinesse which Paule condemneth Colos. ij which surelye shall rather be imputed vnto him for sinne then for any good worke And because as I sayed before it can not be done thorow faith I saye that it is vtter lye reproved of god And on the tother side he y t beleveth it not sith it can not be proved by scripture can catch no harme at all although his opinion were false but rather moch good prayse both of god and all good men because he feareth to swerve from the worde of god and had lever not to beleue y t thinge whiâ—…h is true be it in case that purgatorye were aÌ„d not sette forth
surelye beleue although we had purgatorye and hell to amoÌ„ge vs. And this maye well be gathered of Christes awne wordes luce xvi where he brought in the parable of the rich maÌ„ and lazarus for the rych man beynge in paynes desyred Abraham to send lazarus vnto his fyue brothren to warne them that they myght not come in to that fyre Abraham answered agayne y t they had Moses the prophetes And added let theÌ„ heare theÌ„ TheÌ„ sayed y â— tych man Naye father AbrahaÌ„ but if any of theÌ„ y â— are de parted appeare vnto theÌ„ theÌ„ will they beleue it And AbrahaÌ„ concludeth on this maner If they beleue not Moses and the prophetes no more will they beleue if any of the deed shuld rise agayne And therfore maye I like wyse conclude That if they beleue not neyther yet feare the paynes which Moses and the prophetes ye and christ 〈◊〉 his apostles haue prophesied to falle on y â— vnfaithfull theÌ„ will they not beleue for feare of the paynes of purgatorye Now to the last poynte where purgatorye shulde be he answereth as you shal heare First that it is a folish question for he can not answe re vnto it by his philosophye And thâ—… he saieth that no man can tell neyther the place neyther yet the maner of the payne Here maketh he S. Thomas yee and all oure scolemen foles by cra ste partelye because they take vppon them to answere vnto this question which he calleth fo lysh and partelye because they fullye determe that the place of purgatorye is the thirde place in hell and also assigne fyre to be the maner of the payne And agayne in this last parte he proveth them double foles Once because they stou telye affirme that thinge which no man can tell as Rastell sayeth And agayne because they re strayne god of his lib ertye that assigne any pla ce and make him of lesse auctorite then an in ferior iudge which hath no place assigned him but maâ—…e do execucion and punish the gytlye in what place he will I wondre that oure scolemen maye abyde this felow And then he saieth that purgatorye is in a place limitatyue And wher so euer god doth limitt the soule to be purged there is the 〈◊〉 ue place of that soule and there is the purgatoâ—… of that soule So that a man maye gather 〈◊〉 Rastell that the soules be not limited to one place to be purged and punished And therto agreeth also his similitude of y â— iudge which assigneth one to be punished in one place and 〈◊〉 nother in a nother place even at his pleasure If such gere had come from beyonde the see it shuld sone haue bene condemned although it had not bene halfe so grevous agenst oure scolemen But let this passe as it is well worthy 〈◊〉 let vs se and examine more of this newfangled philosophye NOw are we comen vnto the sixte argumeÌ„t which beginneth in the. 〈◊〉 chaptre y â— effecte is this Bepentaunte is the full payment and satisfaccion of sinne and bringeth remission therfore as sone as repentaunce is taken god of his iustice must geue temission and so there ought to be no purgatorye This argument is nothinge worth for the first parte as we haue often proved is false For if repentaunce were y â— full paymeÌ„t and verye sa tisfaccion for sinne then died Christ in vayne Notwithstondinge if he graunte this first parte to be true neyther he nor all his folowes shal be able to solute this argument whyle they lyve But because we will be shorte let vs passe ouer to his answere which is in y â— xiii chap. In solutinge this argument he groundeth him on two lyes atonce y â— first is y â— god never geveth remission excepte he se in vs a convenieÌ„t cause countrepaysinge his iustice What cause founde he in y â— maÌ„ y â— was brought vnot him sicke of y â— palsaye to whom he sayed be of good coÌ„forte sonne thy sinnes are forgeven y â— Mat. ix Mar. ii Luc. v. what cause foun de he in the thefe that was crucy fyed with him but y â— he had bene anvnthrifte all his liffe longe And yet even the same daye that he suffred with Christ was he partetaker of ioye with him in paradyse Lu. xxiii where was purgatorie theÌ„ where was the punishment that he shulde haue suffered for his enormytyes If any man shulde suffer in purgatorye it is like y t this these shulde haue done it But he went from deeth to liffe 〈◊〉 came in purgatorye wherfore I maye 〈◊〉 y â— no man shall come there if there were any What cause I praye you doth Paule assigne as touchinge oute redeÌ„pcion remission of oure imne for south no nother but y t we were mâ—…tched sinners y â— verye enemyes of god 〈◊〉 v. For saieth paule if wheÌ„ we were his enemies we were 〈◊〉 vnto god thorow y â— deeth of his soÌ„ne moch more now we are recoÌ„cyled shall we be saued by his liffe So y â— in vs is no maner 〈◊〉 of remission but onlye miserye and sinns But the hole cause of y â— remission of oure sin nes â—…d of oure saluaeyoÌ„ is the bloude of 〈◊〉 which hath fullye 〈◊〉 y â— iustice of god the father and hath pacefyed his wrath towar des vs that beleue He is y â— verye purgatorye for all faithfull which hath alreadye purged ou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 sitteth on the right hand of y â— father Heb. I. The secoÌ„de lye is this he saieth y t god of his iustice must geue to everye thinge his aw ne which awne is the thinge that it deserveth to haue If this were true then shuld not one of vs entre the enheritaunce of heaven for we haue everye one of vs deserved deeth and dampnatyon For as Paule sayeth Romanorum iii. we haue 〈◊〉 sinned and want the glorye which before god is alowed But we are frelye iustefyed thorow his grace by the faith that is in thrist Iesu. If it be frelye thorow his grace theÌ„ is it not 〈◊〉 oure owne deservinge for then grace were no grace And contrarye wyse if it be by oure awne deservinge then is it not of grace for then deseruinge were no deservinge Romanorum xi But the truth is this that god of his mercye had promised vnto oure forefathers his deare sonne Christ that he shuld deliuer theÌ„ from all their iniquityes and that all the nacions of the worlde shulde be blessed in him Gen xii This seed he promised of his mercye and fa voure whom also he sente in the tyme that he had ordened Galata 4. not for oure awne deservinges but for his truthes sake and to fulfill y â— he had promised This Christ is become oure right wysnes 1. Corin. 1. so that y t iustice of god is not to geue vs that we