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A20358 A discription of what God hath predestinated concerning man in his [brace] creation, transgression, & regeneration : as also an answere to Iohn Robinson, touching baptisme. Murton, John. 1620 (1620) STC 6773; ESTC S768 92,942 190

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wherfore shall not the children be condemned for the sinne of their Father euen so is it now most strongly vrged although God hath not onely forbidden it but plainely said the soule that sinneth shall dye the Son shall not beare the iniquitie of the Father but the wickednes of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe Further I desire it may well be obserued that Mankinde was onely in Adam in their bodily substance ☞ for of one blood God made all mankinde to dwell on the face of the earth and euen as Adam had his body from the earth yet without forme for God gaue him a forme and a soule by breathing into him the breath of life * Gen. 2.7 euen so haue wee all our earthly being from Adam he is the Father of our bodies in respect of matter but our forme and soules come frō God he is the Father of our Spirits * Heb. 12.9 Eccles 12.7 8.8 that earthly matter was in Adam of which our bodies are made as Adam was in the earth before his body was made Thus no otherwise were we in Adam but as Adam was not in the earth in forme and soule no more were wee in Adam in forme soule And as God gaue no Law to Adam before hee gaue him a soule of reason vnderstanding no more doth he giue to any of Adams posterity any law till he giue them soules of reason vnderstanding as we plainely see by Moses Deut. 11.2 I speake not to your ●hildren which haue neither known nor seen c. They must be taught it when they can vnderstand it Vers 19. The Gospell also speakes to them that haue eares to heare * Mat. 13.9 1 Cor. 10.15 To them that haue vnderstanding that can iudge what is said Further I say it was neuer Gods purpose to execute vpon Adam for that transgressiō condemnatiō to hel in that he purposed to send Christ betwixt in whom Adam beleeuing he should be saued If Adam himselfe for his own sin was not condemned to hell without remedy shall any of his posteritie be sent to hell without remedy that for his sinne seeing they fell no deeper in the transgression then he if so deepe Is this equall and right for the Iudge of all the earth to doe The Scriptures saith Gen. 18.25 This is condemnatiō Ioh. 9. that light or Christ that true light is come into the world and men loue darknes better Ioh. 3.19 Ioh. 16.9 Mark 16.16 Rom. 11.21 and Christ will condemne the world of sinne because they beleeue not in him condemnatiō consisteth in refusing Christ he that will not belieue shall be damned and not else for God hath shut vp all in vnbeliefe Adam by that transgression depriued himselfe of Gods fauour in that estate wherein he was in Paradice notwithstanding the promise of Christ hath by this his sinne procured this iudgement cursed is the earth for thy sake in sorrow shalt thou eate of it all the dayes of thy life and in the sweat of thy face thou shalt eate thy bread till thou return to the earth for out of it wast thou taken because thou art dust Gen. 3.17 c. and to dust shalt thou returne Thus Adam brought himselfe all his posteritie the earth and euery creature in it Rom. 8.20 c. to vanity and into the bondage of corruption And in this estate are all Adams sonnes begotten and borne so that by Adams sinne vanity corruption and death went ouer all not onely ouer the generation of Adam but ouer all Flesh and the curse extended to the earth and euery creature in it And so Infants haue originall as they call it corruption as all other creatures haue yet you may see that those that dye haue corruption in or by Adams sinne if all not be cast into hell fire which is prepared onely for the Deuill his Angels and the wicked Now for the place by you alledged by the offence of one the fault came on all men to cōdemnation Rom. 5.18 Vers 19. For by one mans disobedience many were made sinners that is all c. You see I haue proued before that none of Adams posteritie shall be damned for his sinne but for their owne when they haue a soule of reason and vnderstanding and a righteous law is giuen them for sinne is not imputed while there is no law I haue also shewed that neither Adam nor any shall goe to hell for that sinne but for refusing Christ but this is the meaning of the holy Ghost that by Adams sinne all his posterity haue weake * Rom. 8 3 natures by the which when the commandement comes * Cha. 7.10 they cannot obey and liue but sinne and so dye till when they are aliue without the law so saith the Apostle * Verse 9. and thus is verified that all both Iewes and Gentiles are vnder sinne Rom. 3. there is none righteous no not one there is none that seeketh God they haue all gone out of the way c. Read on the Scripture and you may euidently see that neither this nor any part of Gods word is spoken to or of Infants the Apostle saith vers 9. Now wee know that whatsoeuer the law saith it saith it to them that are vnder the law Infants are vnder no law therefore transgression cannot be imputed to them for where no law is there is no transgression * Rom. 4.15 Thus by Adams falling from this estate he was in and in him all mankinde God giuing man his precepts which man in himselfe by reason of weake flesh cannot obey all men fall vnder the wrath of God and thus they are said by nature to be the children of wrath Ephes 2.3 for the law causeth wrath Rom. 4.15 And this is the Apostles meaning yet as God left not Adam in his sinne but prouided him meanes of reconciliation so hath he for all for both the places proue that as the fault came by one vnto condemnation so by the iustifying of one the benefit abounded towards all men to the iustification of life for Grace by Christ abounded much aboue Adams sinne * Vers 20. not onely of many sinnes in a few persons as is commonly supposed but euen as vniuersally as Adams sinne extended for if all be dead * 2. Cor. 5.14.15 then Christ died for all and the reason that many haue no benefit by it is not because it aboundeth not but because they put the word of Grace from them Act. 13.44 Act. 7.51 and iudge themselues vnworthy of euerlasting life and resist the holy Ghost And thus farre Infants that know not their right hand from their left * Ionah 4.11 that are as destitute of vnderstanding as of malice * 1. Cor. 14.20 that haue no knowledge betweene good and euill * Deu. 1.39 that Christ so often accounteth Innocents * Math. 18.3.4 ●9
14 c. are freed from the law and so sinne is dead in them but when the commandement comes * Rom. 7.8 cursed is euery one that continueth not in all things that are written in the booke of the law to doe them * Gal. 3.10 then they die in sinnes and trespasses * Ephe. 2.1 Verse 8. and must be saued onely by Grace in Christ through faith not of themselues it is the gift of God Againe none shall appeare before Christ to receiue iudgement but those that haue done workes either good or euill and that in the flesh * 2. Cor. 5.10 Reuel 20.12.13 Infants dying haue done neither good nor euill in the flesh Therefore Infants shall receiue no iudgement Ereu. You haue very satisfactorily answered me in this one thing more that much troubleth all men which is Psal 51 5. In which if you giue a plaine answere all else they can obiect is nothing worth Odeg. The words are Behold I was borne in iniquity and in sinne hath my mother conceiued me The question now is whether hee confesseth his owne estate or his mothers If his owne then thus he confesseth to God and desireth him in mercy to consider and behold him whereof he was made as Psal 103 14. of dust weake flesh vnable to resist the Tempter when the law came vnto h m through which weakenesse hee was thus ouercome in these horrible sinnes and thus weake flesh is called sinfull fl sh in which Christ came * Rom. 8.1 in that it is impossible for flesh to keepe the law when it comes Christ is said to be made sinne * 2. Cor. 5.21 not that he was a sinner no more Dauid confessing he was conceiued in sinne doth proue that by conception and birth hee was a transgressour If his mothers then thus either his mother Heuahs or else his mother that bare him and brought him forth whether it mattereth not much the chiefe thing being what this sinne of his mothers is I say it is that curse or punishment for sinne laid vpon her * Gen. 3.16 where the very words agree with these of Dauids I will greatly encrease thy sorrowes and thy conception in sorrow shalt thou bring forth c. so that Dauid doth not confesse his mother-sinne in this place but the punishment that was laid for sinne vpon the mother of all liuing and so vpon Dauids mother and it is frequent with the holy Ghost in the Scriptures to call punishment for sinne by the name of sinne as Christ bare our sinnes * 1. Pet. 2. ●4 and the wickednesse of the wicked shall be vpon himselfe Ezek. 18. ●0 and they shall beare their iniquities and the like and it is neither Dauids sinne nor his mothers he here confesseth to speake properly but his mothers punishment for the fall and his weakenesse through the fall And Dauid did not sinne in being conceiued and borne the soule is the subiect of sinne as before and as Christ teacheth from the soule or heart commeth wickednesse The body is but the instrument thereof Mat. 15.19 the soule comes from God the matter of the body from the parents the soule is very good comming from God the body hath not sinned till it be infected with the soule by transgressiō of a law and seeing they affirme that the very matter or substance whereof Dauid was made was sin and that this is it he confess th in this 51. Psal Obserue what wil follow of this their dreame The matter whereof all the sonnes of Adam is made is sinne but Christ one of the sonnes of Adam after the flesh was made of that matter therefore the matter or substance of Christs body was sinne It will not auaile to say he was cōceiued by the power of the holy Ghost that is true but what tho yet also Mary the virgine conceiued him of her matter or substance and if that be good to say that Dauid was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance and so borne why is it not also good to say that Christ was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance whose flesh and blood was no other then Dauids mothers and so borne but if it be wicked to say Christ was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mothers substance as it is so is it no lesse wicked to say Dauid was a sinner because he was conceiued of his mother substance seeing the substance of both the mothers was one the same 1. Cor. 15.39 And though the holy Ghost did wonderfully cause Mary to conceiue without the helpe of man yet did he not alter nor change Maries substance for then would it follow as some wickedly affirme that Christ was not made of the same matter and substance whereof wee be made And it is most apparant that wicked harlot Rome to aduance the high estimation they haue of Mary and because also they had inuented originall sin to be in all Infants which was onely their wicked inuention * Orig. sin dec in Concil Carthag therefore in the Counsell of Trent * Ses 5. cap. 1 de pec orig exempted her from sinne to establish both their wicked opinions therin Thus I trust all that shut not their eies may see the difference of the truth error in this thing be so satisfied in the truth that no turning deuice shall cause them to stumble again But if any notwithstanding what is said will not yet beleeue the truth in this I require them to shew by the Scriptures better reasons then they haue yet obiected to proue Infants to be in sin vnto condemnation in hell and when they haue done that let them also shew how they that haue sinned and are vnder condemnation of hell can be reconciled to God but onely by faith in Christ Iesus And if they haue sinned and can be reconciled to God by no other meanes but by repentance and faith in Christ Iesus then are they all left vnder condemnation not for any law that they haue broken for they could not breake the law before they were in forme and soule as before but for their Father Adams eating of the forbidden tree and so are damned for their Fathers sinne contrary to all these Scriptures Let not any thinke that this maketh any thing for them that because Infants haue died many times bodily death for the sins of their parents as the old world Sodome Gomorrah Corah c. that therefore they perish with the wicked in hell for of this other vnreasonable creatures as well as Infants haue alwaies had their portions all flesh must dye and death is losse to none but to the wicked for whom is prepared the torments of hell but vnto the godly and innocent death and all the afflictions of this life are not worthy of the glory that shall be shewed If any aske that if Infants be not vnder condemnation what neede they haue of
is regeneration So that it is most plaine that euen in the worke of regeneration man may submit to it or hinder it God conuerteth no man against his will neither doth God force the will he onely bendeth the will by perswasions of promises and threatnings which man may submit vnto or dispise as before Ereu. What say you to that place of Math. 22. Compell them to come in Odeg. I say that power of compulsion was giuen to the seruants of the King and that was no other then by vsing strong arguments and perswasions through the power of the Spirit in them whereby they compelled or constrained the Gentiles to come vnto the mariage not by any violent working vpon their wills but perswading their wills by force of reason Thus is Lidia said to compell or constraine Paul to her house Act 16. ●5 not by vsing any thing else but strong perswasions and earnest intreaties Ereu. What say you to Ioh. 6. No man can come vnto me except the Father draw him Odeg. Reade the place and you shall see how the Father draweth vs vnto him not by any violent compulsion but by teaching for it is written in vers 45. Ioh. 6 4● And they shall be all taught of God euery man therefore that hath heard and hath learned of the Father commeth to mee Thus God draweth not otherwise If he should not send his heauenly doctrine thus to draw men they could neuer come to Christ and therefore that any come to Christ it is by the Fathers drawing which drawing men haue power to put from them and resist as before hath beene proued Ereu. What say you to that place Phil. 2.13 For it is God that worketh in you both the will and the deede Odeg. God worketh all both in willing and doing wheresoeuer it is onely by his Word and Spirit perticularly the worke of regeneration hee worketh in man to will it and to doe it at which time man may submit vnto this worke of God and so be a co-worker with him Rom. 10.3 2. Cor. 6.1 or else he may resist this worke of God and put it from him as before hath beene largely proued And I desire it be obserued that some of the Caluinists granting that the vnregenerate hath power and will to resist hauing free-will to all euill as they say they grant the thing that we maintaine which is that God sending his Word and Spirit to worke our regeneration wee may resist it or not resist it If they affirme as some of them doe for they are deuided that the Elect though vnregenerate for so they imagine cannot resist then they hold the vnregenerate hath no more free-will to euill then to good contrary to their former opinion and to all the holy Scriptures and then is man depriued of all power to euill aswell as to good and God onely worketh both and that by compulsion wherin man hath no power to resist neither the good nor the euill Further it is confessed and it hath sufficiently beene proued that Adam in innocencie had not onely free-will but ability also to worke righteousnesse in the fight of his Creator but hauing sinned he lost not all will and power as is confessed and hath been proued but will and power to worke righteousnesse in the sight of God that hee lost and in stead thereof had a will and power to flye and hide himselfe from Gods presence but receiuing a proclamation from the Lord that his good pleasure was to shew him mercy in the promised seede and that he so loued him that he would not haue him perish but be saued here by is his will affected againe to seeke him euen by the loue and mercy of this good God who destroyed him not for his sinne but called him to his Grace and seeing his flesh vnable to please him sendeth him his Sonne whom if he will beleeue and obey he shall be made iust and righteous also the Lord setting before him life and death saluation through faith in Christ and condemnation through not beleeuing and vsing many reasons to the vnderstanding of man to chuse life and to auoide death Mans will is hereby perswaded to come againe to him from whom he runne away and to cry I haue sinned against heauen and against thee c. and so to submit to this Grace of God thus did God worke in Adam both the will and the deed not creating in him another will but changing his will from euill to good by reasons and perswasions this same did God in these Philippians and doth in all who haue no will nor power to come vnto him but God by the power of his Word and Spirit shewing him the benefit of life and the torment of eternall death and also that although of himselfe he cannot worke righteousnesse yet if he will beleeue in and obey Christ his Son he will in him accept his imperfect obedience and account him iust by this meanes and not otherwise is the will and deede wrought by God Thus much of mans will Of the Originall estate of Man-kinde Ereu. THis being the estate of men of vnderstanding which formerly you haue declared I now desire to be satisfied what is the estate of all Infants by generation that haue no vnderstanding whether they are in the estate of saluation or condemnation Odeg. I answer you that no Infant whatsoeuer is in the estate of condemnation of Hell with the wicked which I proue thus 1. Without sinne there is no condemnation Rō 6.23 Ezek. 18.4 20. 2. Without transgression of the Law there is no sinne 1. Iohn 3.4 Rō 5.13 It followeth then if Infants haue transgressed no Law there is no condemnation to them Ereu. I grant that without sinne there is no condemnatiō also without transgression of a law there is no sinne But had not Infants a Law giuen them in Adam Thou shalt not eate c and so Adam sinning they sinned in him to condemnation in hell Odeg. The Law giuen to Adam was Thou shalt not eat c In which is to be considered Adam had a life being when that Law was giuen but Infants had no life nor being as that time * Rom. 7. ● And the Law is giuen to them that knowes it and it hath dominion ouer a man as long as he liueth Therfore Infants hauing no being and so no knowledge nor being then liuing that Law had no dominion ouer them Ereu. But were not all men in Adams loynes and so hee sinning wee sinned Rom 5. Chap. Odeg. True it is we were in Adam but how not to bring any soule to Hell for the breach of that commandement Thou sh lt not eate for so the Lord hath said whose wayes are most equal All soules are mine both the soule of the Father and the soule of the Son that soule that sinneth it shall dye Yet as then that wicked Prouerbe was vsed The Fathers haue eaten sowre grages the Childrens teeth are set on edge and