as the fruit of his once dying for them who therefore died rose and revived that he might be Lord of all the Judge of quick and dead not so any other man or men and so he mostfully answers the similitude or comparison as used in that 1 Cor. 15. 36 37. also But now Christ being risen from the dead is become the first fruits of them that sleep and the first fruits and harvest must needs be both of one and the same kind as to the thing to be raised though the first fruits be more excellent and glorious in it self then the following His resurrection therefore being the resurrection of the body the resurrection of others by him must needs be the resurrection of their bodies also for since by man came death and was not that also the death of the Body by man also the resurrection of the dead and is not that the body for as in Adam all die so in Christ shall all be made alive So then 2. We further say with the Apostle in his following answer and application of the comparison the same body that is now a natural body it even the same that is sown in corruption it is raised in the Resurrection after Death in incorruption it the same it or body that is sown in dishonour having neither Life Breath Beauty or Fitnesse for Society it is raised in honour it the same that is sown in weaknesse so as it cannot help it self but moulders to dust it is raisin power and so in Immortality It the same It or body that is sown a natural body it is raised a Spiritual body For there is a natural Body and such are all men first and there is a Spiritual Body and such shall the same bodies be that were sown natural Bodies in the resurrection the same shall be Spiritual Bodies it is the same body in a new quality And as it is absurd and unreasonable to immagine that that Body that suffers much even to death for the name of Christ shall after death cease for ever and another Body that never so suffered be raised and Glorified in stead thereof or that the body that runs on in wickednesse and is yeilded up to unrighteousnesse even to death shall from thence cease to be for ever and another Body rise that never so acted the sin nor was imployed in the service of it and suffer the punishment for the former for we must all appear before the righteous Judgement Seat of Christ that every one may receive in his Body the things in the fruit or reward of them done in his Body according to what he hath done whether it be good or bad for what a man soweth that shall he the man reap be not deceived God is not mocked 2 Cor. 5. 10. Rom. 14. 9 10 11 12 Gal. 5. 7 8. c. So likewise it is as absurd to think there can be a resurrection of that which never died or before it be dead Thou fool that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die c. as before it is the dead that rise in the Resurrection Luke 20 37. Mark 12. 25 26. 17. Query And must not every seed have a body of its one Nature Answ In this question that they may render absurd the belief and acknowledgment of the resurrection of the dead body which while it lives here is vile and mortal in it self and in death further corrupts and turns to dust They imply that every seed must have a body of its own Nature and so that if the mortal and dead Body rise it must rise the same or in the same Quality or manner of being for so much they include in its own nature in which its sown namely Vile Mortal Weak c. In all which it clearly appeares they therefore so greatly err even as the Sadduces of old because they know not the Scriptures as likewise neither the Power of God Mark. 12 24 27. For the Scripture saith expresly in the forementioned similitude that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that it shall be but bare grain c. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him and to every seed his own body the same corn is quickened after it dyes in the ground and so retains its nature or kind as Wheat or some other grain but in the quickening is changed into another quality or manner of being and glory as in the blade and after the ear and fruit as aforesaid So likewise in the Resurrection of the dead yea more fully and clearly for such resemblances have not the lively Image of such greater things to come as yet are shadowed or resembled by them the same Body of man that dyed and was buried is raised and so every Soul shall have its own proper Body which it laid down or departed out of but not in the same quality or manner of being which is all one with the nature or kind of beings in these mens confusions But as we have shewed already it s the same body in a new or other quality or manner of being than that in which it was sown for it is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body c. as before yea Christ himself was crucified through and in weakness but he even the same he that dyed and was buried as before is shewed he was raised and liveth in the Power and Glory of God But it appears in these Questions and by their consounding the Seeds in the similitude with the bodies of men resembled by them and spoken of as sown in death and raised in the Resurrection especially if we compare these and the next Question with their discourses and writings on this subject that they are of no faith or judgement concerning any other Resurrection either of the just or unjust then such an imaginary Resurrection as is made or may be atrained in this life and that is not not a Resurrection of the man or dead body that cannot be except it first die and so not before its death nor is that in their imagination but of some Seeds sown in man distinct from the body of the man and so the resurrection of the just in their vain thought is when that they call the good Seed of which some of them dream Christ takes flesh in the man and sometimes they call it Christ and the light within when this gets above the other Seed and gets victory over the lusts in the man and that is the Resurrection to praise and to life likewise the resurrection of the unjust is nothing else with these Dreamers but the rising or getting above of the evil seed or seed of the Serpent in every or any man distinct from the man or Body of the man and when that rises it rises to condemnation and death that is according to their meaning that it may be condemned and judged to death by the other Seed yet can they not tell us who sew these Seeds and
Epistle to the Reader as ours in which they shew their ignorance and deceit they be thus T. Moor say they affirmed That sin is a natural heritage in the beleevers while they be here To which T. Moor saith Ans This is falsly expressed his sayings were That sin is in the beleever as a natural heritage from Adam while he is in this mortal body And in noting this as erroneous they intimately deny the natural uncleanness of man by sin entring into the world by one mans sin and so that all have sinned in him and are fallen short of the glory of God in and unto which they were created Or else with the Papists imagine that its taken away by Baptism or Regeneration so as no more to be in men here But note that T. M. says its in them as a natural heritage from the first natural root fallen Adam in which is implied a distinction between what is the beleevers by nature as a son of the first Adam a man and what is his by grace as in Christ the second Adam and the Apostle tells us That by one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and that it abides in the beleever after beleeving is plain in that Paul says sin dwelt in him even then when he says it was not he that did sin but sin in him Rom. 7. 17 20. For I know that in me that is in my flesh dwelleth no good thing there his natural heritage In which also he implies that in his Spirit was that that is good dwelling as also he after says vers 22. and that sin abides not in the beleever till death we find no Scripture saith but the contrary That no man living shall be justified in the sight of God if he enter into judgement with him Psal 143. 2. If no man living but by Gods not entring into judgment with him then no man living here is without sin for if there were though God did enter into judgement with him he should be justified for God certainly cannot in judgment or will not condemn him in whom is no sin so that their ignorance and error herein appears in accusing T. M. of Error herein 2. T. M. say they affirmed that their nature is restored in Christ speaking of their own nature and that their nature is a filthy nature and Christ took upon him their nature Ans This also is falsly expressed and perverted for his sayings were to this effect That the nature or kind of man is perfectly redeemed and restored in one for all even in Christ the second Adam while yet sin is in and death upon the Individuals or particular persons of men for whom such Redemption is obtained in and by Jesus Christ Yea even the beleevers body is yet vile while not changed by death and they all waiting for the redemption of the body but here they confound things together and deal deceitfully they might as well have taxed the Apostle of confusion for saying men by nature do the things contained in the Law Rom. 2. 14. and yet by nature are children of wrath Eph. 2. 3. The word Nature signifies diversly when we say our nature is restored in Christ we speak of the nature or kind of man as it is distinguished from the nature or kind of Angels and other creatures which whole nature by reason of sin committed by it in Adam was fallen under wrath and curse but being assumed by Christ who was made flesh and man and not in the nature or kind of Angels he hath redeemed it even mans nature or being which is ours too inasmuch as we are men and restored it to favour and fellowship with God in himself and yet we say our nature kind or being as in us not in Christ for the same common nature kind or being of man is in every man though in divers persons diversly is corrupt and filthy in it self by reason of sin in it Isai 64. 6. and death upon us further then purified and purged by him yet Christ took upon him our nature as before not as it is filthy in us by sin in it but as it was under bondage to death and ourse without filth in him he being sanctified in his conception so as to be the Holy One even in his Birth Luke 1. 35. whereas others are conceived in sin and shapen in iniquity Psal 51. 5. so that there is neither error nor confusion in what is said by T. M. hereabout but they have mis-related his sayings and therefore tax them because they agree not with their Errors concerning mans natural sinfulness called Original sin and the humanity of Christ denied by them 3. John Horn they say holds that they that had no guile in them had sin in them that every sin is not guile Answ T is well they dared not to put in David with him as holding the same error for he says that man is blessed whose sins are covered and to whom the Lord will not impute sin and in whose spirit there is no guile so then it seems some men in whose spirit is no guile have sins in them though covered and not imputed to them there needs no cover for what is not yet John Horn did not say that every one that had no guile in him had sin in him for he excepts Jesus Christ who neither did sin nor had guile in him not that Principle then but the contradiction of it is the Error 4. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is not in his person in heaven but the vertue of it To which T. M. saith Ans That herein also they have altered and falsified his sayings which in Answer to their Question where the blood of Christ is was to this effect That the material blood was shed and the vertue or preciousness thereof or of his bloodshedding is now with the Father in the person of Christ in Heaven forasmuch as by means and for the worth thereof he is raised from the dead and entred into heaven it self there to appear in the presence of God for us having by it obtained life from the dead even eternal life and redemption for us Mind also Reader that they say p. 15. that they blame us not nor did blame us for not asserting that the bloodshed is in the body of Christ Why then note they this as a dangerous principle had T. M. so said 5. T. M. say they affirmed That the blood of Christ shed is the foundation of their faith but where it is they answered not nor could they tell Ans The forementioned Answer to their Question was first often given and urged else what meant their reply to it to this effect That the vertue of a thing cannot be separated from the thing it self that it may be where the thing it self is not in a present reall sensible existence or being the contrary to which was then proved as is shewed in the Book they pretend to answer And further T.
this life but which they partake of in this life but where can they shew us any that ever died that either had not sin in him or sin imputed to him They imply p. 6. l. 25 26. By their taxing us with the contrary that Adam might have died the naturall death if he had not sinned and to prove it adde for Christ died who had no sin To which we reply 1. Did Christ die a naturall death was it naturall to Christ to die 2. Had Christ no sin of ours upon him which occasioned his death or should he have died though he had not them laid upon him He bare our sins in his own body on the tree therefore he had sins though none of his own he did no sin neither was guile found in his mouth see there guile and sin distinguished as if all sin is not guile or guile not all sin yet he bare our sins 1 Pet. 2. 22 24. 3. Is this a good inference Christ died that did not sin yet had our sins charged or laid upon him therfore Adam should have died a natural death though he had not sinned let the reader judge they say Christ died to destroy the death that came by sin Rep. 1. If death came by sin as the Apostle testifies in Rom. 5. 12. What death was that if not the naturall death Or where doth the Apostle distinguish and say there is a death of men that came in by sin and the death of men that came not in by sin and that 's the natural death Or where find we mention of Adams dying before and without respect to his sinning in any kind of death 2. Did not Christ by death destroy the naturall death both in taking away its force for taking us out of favour and fellowship with God and in becoming the Resurrection and life from death by whom men shall be raised up out of it at the last day Did he not destroy that kind of death which he died and if that was the naturall death as they say the bodily death we may say then that he also destroyed and so destroying that death that came in by sin it follows that the naturall or bodily death came in by sin too and so that Adam should not have died had he not sinned Do they think that we will worship them and call them the masters of our faith to receive their dictates without proof Let them shew that Adam might have died the natural death or the believers either if they had not sinned They say They who die in the Lord are blessed and to die is gain to them Rep. True but it s by vertue of the Lord in whom they die that turns their curses into blessings death into life Nor is it natural to die in the Lord though to die be It s true too that the righteous mens dying was not charged upon them as a reward for their sin and yet true too that had they never been sinners or sinned in Adam they had never died for as much as by one mans sin death passed upon all as the Apostle witnesses as a reward of Adams sin and theirs in him it first was denounced and though through Christ the weight and destructiveness of it is removed yet the carcass of it remains upon men generally though through Christ turned to the believers gain W. and F. They say God said to Adam in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt die but Adam lost not his naturall life in the day he eat of the tree of knowledge for after that he lived in the body Rep. Herein again they shew their confusion for what though Adam lived in the body after he eat of the tree of knowledge follows it he had not lost his life that day he eat A man my loose or forfeit that which may not presently be taken from him men loose their lives in a Law sense when they do such things as subject them to the Law so as they are thereby condemned to die though death be not presently executed upon them That day he died then in the sentence of the Law though not as to its execution upon him which yet had been then executed too its probable had not Christ the Mediator interposed between him and death to die for him Besides that a thousand years being to the Lord but as one day and he dying in that space he might be said in that sense to have died on the day he sinned They say The covenant Adam was in before his fall was a covenant of life for he was in the image of God and a living soul having the breath of life in him and had dominion in it while he stood in his habitation c. Rep. That Adam was under a covenant of life before the fall is true nor opposes our sayings but their own that Adam might have died the naturall death though he had not sinned But they have weakly proved that it is so for sure the covenant made with him was with him alive and as a creature and not made with him before he was a living man and therefore his being in the image of God a living soul having the breath of life in him and dominion in it as they speak are not to the purpose The covenat might concern their continuance to him not his being made first in them they adde this state have the believers proved and witnessed that life and nature and image that was in man before the fall though they become further in the second Adam who is greater then the first Adam Rep. Still they dictate magisterially where have the believers proved that state of Adam and witness it let them shew it in all the Scriptures for as for their witnessings they are of no Authority with us it s the truth of their witnessings we would have them prove and not onely tell us they are true for we are not of the mind with some simple that believe every of their words to believe that their sayings are as good or better then the sayings of the Prophets and Apostle in the Scriptures have any believers ever witnessed that they were without sin as Adam under no more sentence of death then Adam while in his innocent condition let them shew us that that we may believe it have any believers proved that state of Adam to have life in themselves and not in Christ crucified as Adam had And how are they come further in the second Adam are they led to that and the second Adams state too Where prove they that Into the naturall life of Adam as earthly and fallen full of sin and death such as Adam fallen derived to them they are born and through it are led yea and out and beyond that in Christ in a measure here and fully hereafter but that Christ leads them first into the state of Adam innocent and then into the state of Christ they must prove and not onely dictate before it find credit with
when nor what Bodies they have before they die yea according to this their imagination the resurrection of the unjust is usually or often first contrary to the order of the Resurrection of the dead witnessed in the Scriptures of truth and there may be also many Resurrections of both the just and the unjust whereas the Scriptures mention but one a Resurrection not many Resurrections and that of the dead both of the just and unjust but every man in his own order but more need not here be added to shew the filthiness of this Satanical Dream the mention of it is enough with what hath been already said to shew the Dreamers to be denyers of the Resurrection of the Bodies of men that die in Adam that is after the natural or Bodily death and so of the Resurrection of the dead affirmed and shewed in the Scripture and to evince the truth of that Doctrine against all their endeavours to overthrow it yeâ— something further we shall add to this subject in answer to their next Question Quest 18. And whether the wicked upon whom after Death Judgement is come whose Souls are in Hell must afterward come out of Hell again to receive a second Judgement Ans This Question needs no other answer but the mention of that Scripture Rev. 20. 12 13. which speaking prophetically of the final and Eternal Judgement saith expresly That Death and Hell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judged every one according to his works ther 's death and hell delivering up their Prisoners to Judgement But because in this last Question especially they manifest their horrible Corruption and infidelity about the Doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and Eternal Judgement and what Deriders and Scoffers of both they be even against the plainest assertions of Scripture as in the fifteenth Question they are of Christs personal coming the second time and that we may further bear witnesse to the Truth denyed and reproached by them for the good of others we shall here add something further in return to this Question also noting the palpable wickednesse of the intention and scope of it and the falshood and folly they are found in in their pursuit of such a wicked enterprise 1. The intention and scope of it is to fasten an error upon the Doctrine of the resurrection of the dead and their coming forth to an Eternal Judgement after death viz. That if so then the wicked must come out of hell again after sentenced and sent thither and thereby to give a total overthrow to that doctrine of the resurrection of the dead Bodies of men and their coming forth to Eternal judgement after the natural and bodily death and so to make God a lyar even in those his most plain and full manifestations of the Truth by the Son himself who having declared the powerful efficacy of his voice as now speaking from heaven in the glorious Gospel for making those dead in sins and trespasses to hear and to the quickening and preserving in life those that in hearing hear and said that hour is coming and now is John 5. 25. he biddeth them vers 28. not marvel at that for the hour is coming he saith not as before and now is but onely that it is coming and in leaving out that clause and now is having mentioned it in the former declaration he fully implies that the hour here spoken of in the 28. vers now is not but certainly cometh after the forementioned hour or time that was then begun even when God shall send us Jesus who before was preached to us as Acts 3. 20. with Mat. 24. 14. See the instruction to the living from the consideration of the future state of the dead by T. M. Junior pages 15 16 17 18 19. the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves in the dust of the earth and in the disappearing state of death shall hear his voice and shall come forth namely out of their graves they shall be wholly freed and made alive from the first death Hos 13. 14. 1 Cor. 15. 22. they that have done good shall come forth unto the Resurrection of life and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of Damnation for even death and hell shall deliver up the dead that are in them and they shall be judged every one according to his works as before is shewed This is that which the scope of this question is to deny and so consequently that Christ is risen from the dead for if the dead rise not then is not Christ risen and so in the denyal of this the Apostles whole Preaching is rendred vain and faith in Christ as Preached by them vain also yea they are therein proclamed false witnesses of God because they have testified of him that he raised up Christ whom he raised not up if so be the dead rise not 1 Cor. 15. 12. 15. 2. In their pursuit of this end they make lies and mistakes their desence that which they first suppose and take for granted as that in which their chief strength lies is neither granted by us nor so expressed in the Scripture but according to the import of it in their query very erroneous viz. that judgement is come upon the wicked after death now that by is come they mean is now already come as soon as they are dead and that by Judgement they mean the whole of the judgement is clear by their bringing it to disprove and deride a coming forth again to any other or further judgement and so it s very false for though judgement may come upon them in this life and their death is a terrible Judgement it proves so accidentally to them through their misimprovement of their time because it cuts them off from further space of repentance they being from thence sealed up and reserved as Prisoners in the Pit to the judgement of the great day of Christ yet neither is the one or the other that great and Eternal judgement unto which all the ungodly that continue such till death are reserved to be punished nor doth that seize on them till that day of judgement whence it is alwayes truly called the wrath to come and not that is already come upon any and so much is plain in that Heb. 9. 27. with vers 28. to which they would seem to allude especially if compared with other Scriptures see the text as it is appointed to men once to die he speaks of men indefinitely and so of the whole kind for all shall once dye though some shall not sleep in death but suffere a sudden change in which both death and resurrection shall be accomplished upon them in a moment But after this the judgement he saith not that then or as these that after this the judgement is come as if it were already come upon such of them as are dead or should come upon any that die before the rest at least of their
A Fuller Discovery OF THE Dangerous Principles And lying spirit of the People called Quakers made manifest in George Whitehead John Whitehead and George Fox the younger In their Book against Iohn Horne and Thomas Moore of Lin Regis in NORTHFOLK Written by the said Thomas Moore and Iohn Horne for the fuller satisfaction of all such as desire to be further satisfied about the evil and erroniousnesse of the said People called Quakers Most men will proclame every man his own goodnesse but a faithful man to Christ and his Cause who can find Prov. 20. 6. I marvel yee are so soon removed from him that called you not into your selves but into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel which is not another but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ But though we even Apostles or an Angel from heaven persons of most Angel-like carriage and appearance preach any other Gospel unto you as the following Discourse shews that these Quakers do then that which we the Apostles have preached unto you let him be accursed Gal. 1. 6 7 8. LONDON Printed for John Allein at the signe of the Rising Sun in Pauls Church-yard 1660. THE EPISTLE TO THE READER ONce more we have herein presented thee Courteous Reader with a discovery of the People called Quakers in which thou mayest see from their own written and printed sayings by what manner of spirit they be led and what manner of Doctrine they publish and strive to maintain and indeed the naughtinesse of their way is made manifest partly by their Principles and Doctrines broachedly them and partly by the manner of their carriage in their managing and maintaining them Wee shall give thee here a brief account of both in a few Observations 1 For the Doctrines and Principles maintained by them thou mayest observe in their Queries sent us printed with our Answers to them at the close of our Answer to their Book against us as hintâ—d and in their book more clearly asserted or implyed these following viz. I. That Christ hath no other body but his Church no personal body and so that that body of his flesh in which he suffered and bare our sins and which rose again is not a body or is not in being Book pag. 7 8 9. answered by us in our Reply pag. 25. to pa. 42. and Quest 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 11. II. That the blood of Jesus Christ or his personal abasement sufferings in the flesh to the shedding and pouring out his blood and soul to Death sustained by him once in the end or last Ages of the World are not the foundation or of the foundation of their faith so that their faith is not faith in Christs blood as so considered nor is that precious blood or those sufferings of Christ that wherewith their conscience is purged or the spiritual drink of the soul but some other thing principle or spirit in men which they put the Name of the blood of Christ upon See if this conceit or Doctrine in both parts of it negative and affirmative be not hinted in their Quest 12 13 14. seeing the body of his flesh in which he suffered they deny to remain and yet say his blood is in his flesh what can they mean by his flesh but something of his Church which onely they grant to be his body and so that his blood is nothing but some seed principle or sufferings in his Church their pleading against his blood or suffering as the foundation or of the foundation of Faith thou mayst see in their book p. 14 15 16 17. answered by us here p. 52 53 54 c. III. That the lower parts of the earth into which Christ descended and the heavens into which he again ascended are no local places but some conditions or conceits in men Qu. 3 4 5 6â— Book p. 8 9. answered by us p. 26 27 33. IV. That the same body that dies shall not rise again in the Resurrection Book p. 10 11. Answered by us p. 42 to 46. and Quest 16 17. V. That the souls of the wicked shall not come out Hell at the great day of the Resurrection and judgement to be further judged they imply Quest 18. and so that neither the souls nor the bodies of the wicked shall rise again to judgement VI. That that coming of Christ in which the dead in him shall be raised and be caught up into the Ayr together to meet him and be ever with him and in which he shall descend from heaven with a short and the sound of the trumpet c. mentioned 1 Thess 4. 15 16. is already long since past For they say the Apostles and Believers of that Age in which the Apostle wrote remained to it Book p. â— Answered p. 32. Quest 15. and so they agree with Hymeneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past 2 Tim. 16. to 18. VII That the Christ we look for to come from heaven again they desire not the knowledge of Book p. 10. Answered p. 41. VIII That they are sinless or have no sin in them they deny not and that those that are believers in Christ and born of God are perfectly freed from sin as to the being of it in them Book p. 1 to 6. and yet that the little children that John wrote to who were also born of God and know the Father might have sin in them Ans p. 9 10. to p. 24. IX That all sin is guide when as the scripture distinguishes guile from other sins and other sins from guile 1 Pet. 2. â— and sayes some have no guile in their spirits who yet have sins though forgiven and covered yet there to be covered Psalm 32. 1. 2. Book p. 4. 5. Answ p. 17 18. X. That Adam might have died the natural death if he had not sinned and so that the bodily or natural death came not in by sin Book p. 6 7. Ans p. 23. XI That Christ came not to redeem men from out of the natural or bodily death B. p. 7. Ans p. 25. XII That our faith that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us is to be turned up by the roots and so by consequence that all the faith that is grounded in Christs appearing and suffering for us without us and in his appearing in heaven for us and so such faith as that of the Elect mentioned Rom. 8. 33 34 35. is by these mens Doctrines to be rooted up Book p. 10. Ans p. 41 42. XIII That the Apostles and all that were led by the spirit of God c. witnessed the Redemption of the body spoken of Rom. 8. 23. when they were upon the earth and did not put it afar off as they deridingly phrase the looking and waiting for it till after death in which they say again in effect that the resurrection of the believers body is made in this life Book p 11 12. Ans p. 47 48 XIV That the knowledge
to prove that Adam might have died the natural death though he had not sinned they argue as thus Because Christ who had no sin not considering that Christ had our sins laid upon him and for them he died but Adam should have had no sin laid upon him or imputed to him had he not sinned himself But such like reasonings are too many to number up in them 4. They carry on their false designs and doctrines with lies and falshood most frequently as in saying often that we accuse the Saints and plead for sin p. 2 3 4 5. And in belying J. H. in saying that he turned G. Ws. words about his false Syllogisme above mentioned when as all that were at the dispute and heard and remembred his words may remember they were word for word as John Horn relates them Yea and in belying his own words in saying they were such as they indeed were not Again in saying we might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles with being Preachers of lies and deceivers as the Quakers and that the same Spirit in us that hath accused the Quakers with being deceivers that is the Spirit of Truth would have accused the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles for being deceivers page 5. That we contradict our selves in many things where we have made it we have made it evident there is no contradiction That we look for a Christ like our selves but that he hath no Blood in his Body as we imagine p. 10. That our expecting the Redemption of the Body to be waited for aster Death is contrary to the Saints expectations p. 11. and 12. In which words is both equivocation and falshood that what the Scriptures say of Christ and his Body they own in which they also either equivocate or say falsly or both they equivocate if by owning they mean as probably they do they own it as true of themselves the Quakers as if the things spoken of Christ and his Church are verified in and of them and may be affirmed of them Or if by owning they mean they believe and hold them true concerning Jesus of Nazareth and them that believe on him to be saved through the virtue of his sufferings Sacrifice and Mediation then they say falsly Yea whether this or the former be their meaning they are false therein as our reply makes manifest to the impartial Reader But who can number up their lies and falshoods in falsifying our sayings and otherwise which the following Reply will further evidence He that will procure and search and compare what Christopher Wade of Water-beach hath written against them with their writings against him may see a whole dozen of notorious lies of George Foxes clearly proved against him to which G. W. in his answer gives the go by most egregiously and in none of them disproves him 5. They misrelate and give the go-by to many of our charges and sayings as for instance We quoted Jam. 3. 2. to prove all believers here to have sin or sometime to offend to this they say nothing onely quote the place and give it the go-by telling us onely that James exhorted men to let patience have its perfect work c. Which is nothing to the purpose p. 3. So what we said of the Nature of man as it is in Christ discharged of sin Law and Death in his Resurrection p. 10. Of our former Book that they represent it as if we had said it of the Nature and being of man as in us to be discharged in our Resurrection p. 11. And whereas we charged them with denying the Humanity of Christ as to its being now in him they give it the go-by answering onely that they never denied the Man Christ for his flesh is their food p. 14. Whereas they had before denied him to have any other Body then his Church p. 8. And to our saying that Christ is not really and personally in the believer as in Heaven but by Faith they let go the words personally and as in Heaven in their answer and traduce us as denying any real being of him by Faith in the believer p. 14. More such like dealings thou mayst find in p. 15. and 18. and divers others 6. They carry their designes by reproaches Nick-names and abusive expressions in which also much hatred malice and spite against us is made evident to be in them and so that they are far from sinlessenesse to this purpose it is that in their Title page and Post-script they Nick-name us Calling us 1. Teachers of the People called Moorians or Manifestarians and called by some Free-willers and Independants which what can it proceed from but their hatred of us and indignation against us Seeing 1. The Names we own not nor are the People we Teach so called as Moorians that we know of T. M sen it seems for affirming not of himself as his own but from the Testimony of Christ and his Spirit recorded in the Scriptures that Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the World and gave himself a ransom for all men and is by virtue thereof the Mediator of God and men the propitiation for the sins of the whole World and extends to men meanes leading them to Repentance and is ready to receive such as in the means are prevailed with to believe and this a good ground and motive to Repentance Faith Love c. Was by some that opposed those truths standered and called Papists or Arminian and some of the same mind with him in those truths were by means of a certain Manciple in one of the Colledges that turned Almanack-maker and reproachfully devising that Name called Moorians by some drunkards profane and cavilling persons but never owned by him nor by any of his friends much less by us or the people we teach nor do we know of any civil people or others these revilers excepted that say or write of us or of any people that they are the people called Moorians as these men call themselves in divers of their writings the Quakers the people called Quakers which makes it lawful for us also without reproach to give them that name by way of distinction in our speaking or writing of them as the names Herodians Sadduces and Pharisees are given in the Scripture to and were owned by those people 's so called without reproach to them And the rather because the Name Quakers fathers their Doctrine upon no man as the name Moorian doth nor charges it with any particular evil Opinion as the other name Manifestarian and Free-Willers import though had they been thereby wronged and reproached yet the Spirit of Truth would have led them not to return reviling for reviling reproach for reproach and to joyn hands with drunkards and others so that herein they are convicted to be sinners being guilty of reviling As also in that 2. They add or Manifestarians as if Moorian and Manifestarian were the same with them this is another of their spiteful reproaches against
in his members and these two warring the one against the other but their arguing is like as if they should say the beleever hath no flesh or blood in his body because he hath a spirit in his body that hath neither flesh nor blood in it or that they be guilty of the imperfection of witlesness because they have something in them their gutts suppose that be witless and they are not divided from their nature they adde John said speaking of Christ as he is so are we in this world 1 Joh. 4. 17. and therefore that we have manifestly wronged them and the Apostles Rep. That we have either wronged them or the Apostles is false for that they hold what we said they do they deny not and that the Apostles so held they prove not the place they quote says not as Christ is without sin in himself so are we in this world no more then he saith as Christ is without a natural corruptible body or without pain ach or bodily death so are we in this world they may as well gather the one as the other from that saying and that the Apostle meant it not in respect of sinlesness as men is evident by comparing it with 1 John 1. 8. where he saith If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us we may not strain Scriptures beyond their scope nor may we say we are in every respect as Christ is either in himself or to the world or to beleevers Christ is God over all so are not the beleevers Christ is the second Adam a quickning spirit so are not the beleevers Christ is the only begotten Son of God so are not the beleevers on him The only begotten Son of God and they that beleeve on him are distinct and different persons Christ is the Saviour of the world so are not the beleevers not the Saviour though instruments of saving men Christ is the propitiation for our sins and for the sins of the whole world so are not the beleevers Christ is the Head and Husband of the Church so are not the beleevers but as Christ is so are the beleevers and in an eminent sense so were the Apostles in the world in the judgement knowledge account of the world as also in a measure set to be lights in the world But the main scope is that in respect of judgement account and estimate as Christ is so are we in this world for he says Herein is our love or love with us made perfect that we may have boldness in the day of judgement when we are judged of men here because as he is so are we in this world as to their receit approvement rejection or disapprovement we have our fellowship therein with him which also gives us strong consolation and confidence that when he comes to judge he will justifie us that were here condemned with him but what is this to their being sinless in themselves They add That they say not there is any perfection themselves without Christ who is their righteousness and they the righteousness of God in him Rep. That Christ is their righteousness c. is but their own testimony of themselves which we cannot receive because the true Christ whom we with the Apostles look for from heaven so to come again as they see him go up they say p. 10. they desire not the knowledge of nor doth their not saying that there is any perfection in them without Christ suffice to excuse them for its an Error to say that through Christ they have perfection in themselves so as to be perfectly sinless even the beleever in Christ though in Christ perfect is not as yet perfect in himself through Christ while here Paul though in Christ said he was not perfect nor had attained Phil. 3. 12 13. no not to be sinless Rom. 7. 20. 1 Tim. 1. 15. That Christ was manifested to take away our sin and in him is no sin we granted but added that its never said so of any else no where said by any of the Saints of themselves or of any of their brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners But they bid W. and F. mark how fairly we contradict our doctrine by telling its said indeed that he that abideth in him sinneth not and he that is born of God doth not commit or work sin because the seed of God abides in him neither can he sin that is commit work or yeeld up himself to sin because he is born of God which they render as inconsistent with our counting their maintaining a perfection of sinlesness in this life as a great error and say we would accuse the Saints or brethren with being sinners Rep. 1. Is this to accuse the Saints or brethren to observe what they have said or not said of themselves or one another If so then all are accusers of them that observe their sayings and so it seems they to avoid accusing of them observe them not If it be not then are they lyers and so not sinless that call our observing what they said or said not of themselves an accusing of them for we did no more in those sayings they have quoted as any impartial Reader may see 2. What we observed they said contradicts not what we noted they said not if they can find that they said of themselves or of their brethren that they had no sin in them or were not sinners they should produce it and prove us lyers if not then have they falsly charged us with self-contradiction These two contradict not John said He that abideth in him sinneth not and John said not he that abideth in him hath no sin in himself or is not in that respect a sinner or that any doth perfectly abide in Christ in every operation and act so as never to wander in his minde out of him Paul abode in Christ in the main and did not commit sin for he says It s no more I but sin that do it and yet Paul then had sin in him for he adds but sin that dwelleth in me Yea and said that with his flesh he served the law of sin and yet with his mind served the law of God Rom. 7. 20 25. Did Paul then contradict himself If yes then will we be counted contradictors of our selves also with him if no then neither do we contradict our selves but either they are ignorant of the nature of contradictions and so not perfect or else knowingly say falsly and so are vitious We then yet account what they maintain a great Error and yet say what the Apostle John said because he said not what they say that he that is born of God hath no sin in him but on the contrary If we say we have no sin in us we deceive our selves and yet they were born of God sure they beleeved Jesus to be the Christ and whosoever doth so is born of God 1 Joh. 5. 1. so that any that
save he saith not in the time past I was but in the time present I am the chief For though he did not sin so grosly as before yet he was still the same sinner or sinfull man that Christ came to save yea and might possibly account every small neglect or failing a greater sin now then his greatest sins before because sensible now of his more ingagement to Christ for his having shewed him such favour a smaller offence against greater knowledge and mercy may be greater then a greater sin against less knowledge and mercy however what he said of Paul we proved and prove yet from the Text that is that he said of himself even then when an Apostle that then in the present tense he was a chief sinner if he said falsely of himself then was he therein a sinner if true then have not we said falsely of Paul nor accused him W. F. They say As for the Scriptures we bring 1 Joh. 1. 8 9 10. and Jam. 3. 1 2. These prove not that we would have them that the Saints were not perfectly freed from sin in this life they did not preach up sin and imperfection to remain in this liâ—e as they say we do for both James and Joh. exhort them otherwise for said James let patience have her perfect work that you may be perfect and intire wanting nothing James 1. 4. And John said if we walk in the light as he is in the iight we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin 1 Joh. 1. 7. and Chap. 2. 1. My little children these things have I writ unto you that yee sin not and if any man sin we have an advocate with the Father so he did not include them all as to remain sinners for they were all sinners while they were not cleansed by the blood of Christ Rep. 1. That these Scriptures prove not that the Saints were not perfectly freed from sin in this life it 's but their saying so for are they perfectly freed from sin as to the being of it in them that have it as these say they had and David saith no man living and sure men are living while they are in this life is so free from sin as to be justified if God enter into judgement with them Psal 143. 2. And as for preaching up sin and imperfection that is falsely and slanderously said of us do we preach them up because we say they remain sure then David preacht them up when he said as above 2 James and John exhort to the contrary they say is this a good argument or a piece of sophistry John and James exhorted against sin therefore they did not sin is it not as good to say God commands all men every where to Repent therefore no man is impenitont all do repent James said let patience have its perfect work that ye may be perfect c. Therefore it seems they were not yet perfect nor intire but wanted something why else would he have so exhorted them Nor doth that prove they ever were so perfect and intire as to have no sin in them while here seeing Asa was perfect all his dayes yet had sin and sinned 2 Chron. 15. 17. and 16. 7. 10. 12. Do the Apostles say let no sin be in you any where Men are perfect and intire and want nothing when they have all things that may further them to their glorifying God here in their generation though they be not perfectly possest of all things they are capable of attaining hereafter may they not as well say men may have all their happiness and glory here before their decease the resurrection and whatever they may have in the world to come because James saith that ye may be perfect and intire wanting nothing Again can patience be said to have its perfect work in any so long as it hath any further exercise for it and hath it not something further till death be over 3. To Johns saying What need of cleansing from all sin where is no sin to be cleansed from He saith not it hath cleansed us already but cleanseth us what cleanseth now finds something to be cleansed from and doth not the Apostle plainly say so much when he immediatly adds If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves let all judge how these Quakers and the Apostles cross one the other They say because it cleanseth us from all sin those that it so cleanseth have no sin the Apostle says immediately after that saying If we say we have no sin we deceiâ—e our selves doth not prove these men to be deceived and so to deceive others seeing they are of such as say so 4. What made them stop in their next proof at we have an Advocate when the Apostle adds and be is the propitiation for our sins they see the words our sins mentioned there and that scared them from the quoting it so far Oh do not their Consciences accuse them as juglers and deceivers in this Argument and that they are afraid of the light it shines so full against them 5. And how follows their Conclusion then So then he did not include them all as to remain sinners c. Whom did he exclude seeing the blood of Christ cleanseth them that have fellowship with God and had not the Apostles so by their own confession yet they say our sins and if we say we have no sin even we that have fellowship with God we deceive our selves But they ask W. and F. What one sin or sins we can lay to Paul or James or Johns charge or to any of them that they were not perfectly freed from sin before their decease let them prove some sin say they of us which was not destroyed in any of those before their decease and who can lay any thing to the charge of Gods Elect let them speak out and answer directly or for ever be silent from pleading for sin or accusing the righteous as they have done Rep. It is enough that we beleeve Paul and James and John that they had sin and did in many things all offend though we cannot name their particular offences as it is to believe multitudes to have died though we know not of what particular diseases would it not be a fine argument to say prove of what particular diseases Ezra and Nehemiah and Esther died or else be for ever silent of accusing them to have been mortall That in many things they all offended we believe because James tells us so but what were their many offences we know not because they tell us not we can tell some sins these men are guilty of if they had asked us namely of lying deceit guile sophistry taking up a reproach against their neighbour as they do in the conclusion of their Book Thomas Moore Sen. But what John and James in particular were guilty of besides naturall infirmity we cannot tell because the Holy Ghost hath not told us nor do we
perfect in knowledge and then they are wretchedly unhappy that take them for Oracles that are so ignorant If they know this then dealt they guilfully and intended to deceive simple ignorant people that cannot distinguish things that differ by their Sophistry and then the case of their followers is yet more wretched which things being so 4. Their conclusion cannot follow from those premises viz. So that he that had no guile in him had no sin in him but the contrary so that he that had no guile in him might have ignorance and other sins in him G. W. They accuse J. H. also of turning George Whiteheads words in saying he said guile is a transgression of the law therefore guile is all sin which they say is falsly framed and that the words were to this effect Every transgression of the law is guile or sin and all guile includes all transgression of the law therefore every sin is guile Rep. I call God and men to witness whither George Whitehead be not herein a notorious lyer who hath shamefully turned his own words and belyed both himself and me why else should I match it and detect his Sophistry in his syllogisme by this as like it all sin is a transgression of the law but lying is transgression of the law therefore lying is all sin It is true that syllogism of his was falsly framed and so much I told him then but it was of his own framing nor does he repeate it here as I writ it rightly and as he framed it but leaves out the word all in the minor and the whole major proposition as any that compare our books may discern And when they say their words were to suâ—â— effect as they repeat why say they not directly they were their words may they not as boldly lye and falsifie in one thing as in another and what kind of argument have they framed here sure as corrupt as that he framed then for here is but onely the same falshood affirmed in three severall forms of words to the same sense and none of them proved and yet they would infer the last form of them from the two former just like this every transgression of the law is anger or sin and all anger includes all transgression therefore every sin is anger but why saies the first proposition every transgression of the law is guile or sin t is true it s one of them if their or disjoyn then they distinguish sin and guile if it but explicate then they beg the question instead of proving it Oh! Lord deliver this Nation and the poor ignorant people from such sophisters as these be that lead men to destruction They aske G. W. What sin can we prove that Nathaniel had in him when he had no guile in him and tell us we must prove some sin then in him or see our selves confuted Rep. They may as well say seeing the Scripture witnesses that the children of Korah dyed not in the judgement that befell Korah and his company what disease dyed they of and if we cannot prove that they dyed of some disease then we are confuted if we believe and hold that they dyed For as there are many diseases they might dye of though not in that judgement so there be divers sins besides guile secret sins distinct from presumptuous sins as David implies Psal 19. 1. When they tell us what were those secret sins David prayed to be cleansed from distinct from presumptuous sins then may we tell them what sins Nathaniel had distinct from guile David implies sins in them though forgiven and covered in whose Spirits is no guile Psal 32. 1 2. Which we also quoted and that will save us from being confuted though we can prove no one particular sin in Nathaniell but that Scripture they skip over in silence as afraid to meddle with it because thereby they are confuted To our Quotation of Ed. Borroughs saying that saints upon earth may be perfectly freed from the body of sin and death and our concluding them from their doctrine of sinlesness to be deceivers They say W. and F. Here we might as well have accused the true Prophets and Apostles Rep. It seems then by their own intimation they be not such but false Prophets and Apostles what needed that word true by way of distinction of them from themselves else if not to imply that they also be Prophets and Apostles but not true Mind this Reader and beware of them then for say they they witnessed to the same the Quakers witnesse to Rep. Here they own themselves Quakers too so that we may call them lawfully so whereas they traduce us by many Nick names that we own not as Moorians Manifestarians Freewillers c. Did the true Apostles and Prophets ever so nickname their Opponents as these false ones do But let us see their proof that the true Apostles and Prophets witnessed to the same things that the untrue ones the Quakers do They adde as said the Prophet Blessed are the undefiled in the way they also do no iniquity Psal 119. 1 2 3. And saith the Lord ye shall be clean from all your filthiness Ezek. 36. 25. And Christ exhorted his to be perfect as their heavenly Father is perfect Math. 5. 48. And every one that is perfect shall be as his Lord and the same Apostle who said ye are compleat in Christ said also in whom ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh Col. 2. 10. 11. Rep. Here is no place yet saies that either those Holy men themselves or any others then living were without sin in themselves which is the thing should have been proved 1. As for the Prophet David lived not he under the old Testament as well as Solomon whose saying there is no man that sinneth not they would therewith have eluded but undefiled in the way may signifie either in Christ who is the way John 14. 6. And that we granted or in the way of their walking so as Zachariah and Elizabeth were blameless in their walking in all the statutes and commandements of the Lord and yet Zachary had sin in him which discovered it self when tried with the vision for he believed not the Angel and therefore was punished with blindness Luke 1. 6. 20. And they do no iniquity perverse evil as the word signifies is all one with they do not commit sin yet even such as do not commit sin have sin in them yea and with their flesh serve the Law of sin as we may read Rom. 7. 20. 25. 2. In that of Ezek 36. 25. They confound things distinguished for it is not said as they quote it in one and the same period you shal be clean from all your filthiness but the words are distinguished thus I will sprinkle clean water upon you and you shall be clean there 's a half stop and then follows from all your filthiness and from all your
idols will I cleanse you And as God promised to do so doth and will he do the blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin and yet it follows If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and he is the propitiation for our sins 1 John 1. 7 8. and 2. 2. As was before noted he that forgives and cleanseth us by way of pardon from all sins bids us also pray as duly as for our daily bread forgive us our trespasses c. 3. As for exhortations to be perfect they prove not the being of the thing exhorted to They supposed above the little children to whom the Apostle wrote that they might not sin might have sin in them not withstanding Nor is all perfectiom perfection of sinlesness in mens selves Asa was perfect hearted all his daies and yet had sin and sinned 2 Chron. 15. 17. and 16. 9. And yet every one that is perfect shall be as his Lord he saies not he is so yea in saying he shall be he implies he is not yet so but when he shall appear we shall be like him for we shall see him as he is This we granted but they skipt it over 4. The Apostle said they were circumcised with the circumcisiou made without hands in the putting off the body of sins of the flesh but it was in Christ he saies for so much the words in whom signifies And the same Apostle in the same Epist Col. 1. 10. 11 to the same people therefore he saith but now you also Mark now also put off all these anger wrath malice blasphemy filthy communication c. Col 3. 8 9. it seems then they had those things yet to put off still for can any put off what is not So to the Ephesians too when he had said they had learned to put off the old man and put on the new he addes wherefore putting away lying speak every man truth to his brother a lesson these men have not yet learned To the Corimbians also he saith purge out the old leaven that ye may be a new lump even as ye are unleavened so that in some sense in Christ they were unleavened and yet in other sense needed to purge out the old leaven which implies it was yet in them for how can a man purge that out of him that is not in him but they through ignorance confound these things and run themselves and Auditors into delusion Again p. 5. l. 36. They distinguish the true Prophets Christ and his Apostles from themselves that are accused by us and so again imply that they be neither the true Christ nor his true Prophets or Apostles Reader mind it they give out themselves for Prophets and Apostles and some of them say they are Christ but they are false ones and why then plead they for their false prophecyings and witnessings But they indeed shew their confusion and rayling against us as after will appear to their own delection and shame as for their innocence no liers are innocent but they be over and over proved liers that perfect heartedness and compleateness in Christ may consist with sin being in men in this life we have shewed And they cannot disprove unloss they will blot out Col. 2. 10. with Chap. 3. 8. 2 Chron. 15. 17. so 1 Cor. 5. 8. 9. Which we noted above either let them say those Scripture sayings are false or else own their own words to be false in saying that we fight against our own words and that they that are compleate in Christ are perfectly freed from sin namely as to all inherency of it in themselves or they say nothing to purpose that sinners are out of the compleatness of Christ which though in some sense true viz. Of sinners out of Christ yet is not universally true except Paul when he said of sinners I am the chief was out of Christs compleatness that the heart that hath sin dwelling in it is not perfect contrary to 2 Chron. 15. 17. with 16 17. Where Isaiahs heart is said to have been perfect all his daies and yet he is charged with relying on the King of Asyria and not relying on the Lord his God and those were heart-sins surely and they dwell there too for some time as the verses before manifest p. 6. They accuse us of confusion that we say believers are come to a further state and covenant then Adam was in before his fall who then had no sin in him and yet accuse the believers they say with having the body of sin or not being perfect while here Rep. Here they shew their own confusion for the believers being in a better state or convenant in Christ hinders not their having sin yet in themselves to purge out as is evident in Col. 2. 10 11. with 3. 5. 8 9. No more then it hinders them from having infirmides and death which Adam unfallen had not besides they have added a lie or two as that we accuse the believers with having a body of sin then Paul accused them when he said the believers old man is crucified with Christ that the body of sin might be destroyed the words might be plainly imply it a thing not then done but to be done as in all like expressions is evident and that we accuse them with not being perfect when in divers respects we grant them to be perfect as perfect in Christ Jesus and many of them perfect with Christ in their Spirits without guile there and perfect comparatively to some others c. In the same page they wrong us in giving it as our saying that Adam might possibly sin and die but not so the believers whereas we added what they suppress to not so the believer not under a covenant of works here nor hereafter the resurrection capable of sinning and dying as Adam before his fall was again they say we would accuse the Quakers of being sinners because of their dying which is false let any man read our book p 3. What we said is thus that the Quakers are not in Adams state before the fall because Adam had no death then upon him as the Quakers have for they must die but they say here our darkness appears for believers dying the natural death doth not prove them sinners while here for through death they gain more of the peace and glory of God which they partake of in their life time which is both confused and inconcludent for what if the believer gain by his death may it not therefore argue he had sin in him while he lived is not the being freed from the body of death and inherency and combating with sin again think they Though we did not bring it for an argument to prove what they charge us with as we before discovered and for their confusion their words sound as if they believed that the greater gain by their death they have it all in this live for they say not more of the peace and glory of God then they partake of in
die immortal or spiritual as they shall rise But we say the bodies that are sown mortal and natural shall rise immortal and spiritual To Thomas Moors saying that the same Kirnel of Wheat rises up again in the blade They say It is known that the same Kirnel doth not rise but another body or Ear of corn grows forth in the nature of that which is sown But we appeal to sense whether it be not that Kirnel that is sown that is changed into the Blade that springs out and grows into blade ear and corn as that other body or ear of corn grows forth in the nature of that which is sown so it springs out of that which is sown too and that was sown is quickened and grows into that which comes up and not another thing that being annihilated They talk of Riddles but of their own imagination of conceited Seeds and the nature of them and their center and habitation like those conceits of Jacob Behmen which are all Aliens to the Apostles discourse which we pass by as things frivolous and impertinent being nothing but carnal imaginations of men destitute of the Truth and that believe not Gods Doctrine And as for what they say of the last Trumpet in the last day and the Resurrection of just and unjust We see their corruption about it in what was said by them above viz. that the Saints in Pauls time remained till that coming of Christ which is to be with a shout and with the Voice of the Arch-angel and Trump of God by which they know that though they use the Scripture Words of the last Trumpet Sounding and Resurrection of the just and unjust and that many that sleep in the Dust of the Earth shall rise and shall come forth some to the Resurrection of Life and some to the Resurrection of Condemnation every one to be rewarded according to his Works and that John said the Sea gave up the dead in it and Death and Hell delivered up that which were in them and they were judged c. Yet we know by what is already said by them in their Book and by their Questions to us in which they propound Shall the Souls of the wicked which are in Hell and have received their judgement come forth again to receive a second judgement that they are void of the faith of those sayings and turn them into delusions of their own or other mens inventions for what shall rise that sleeps in the dust or that is in the graves as in Job 5. 28 29 if not the Body that was laid into it which they say rises not And what shall Hell and death give up if Hell give up no souls in it as their question implies and death give up nothing in it For what should it give up Is it the Spirit that dies not with the body but when the body goes to dust it returns to God but sure the Apostle sayes its the Body that is now vile that shall be changed that it mark that it and its a Relative and relates to that before it which there is the vile body that it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious Body which they believe not and therefore what but deceit and equivocation is this in their Hearts while they quote the Words of Scripture that say every man shall be Judged according to his Works if neither the Soul nor the Body come up again what of the man is that that shall be judged Let all judge And this they say is an answer about the Resurrection but such an answer as clearly denies it and turns it up by the roots as not grounded in their conceited appearance of Christ in them W. and F. They say to their question to Thomas Moore What was the Seed of which the Apostle said God giveth it a body as it pleaseth him He answered That the Seed was the Body that dies or is laid in the Ground which he pleaded for the rising of Reply Surely ye wrong T. M. for the Seed there spoken of is the Grain or Seed mentioned which men sow and which the Apostle mentions by way of illustration T. M. might say that which answers to the seed in the Comparison is the Body of man but see here that by their faulting T. M. as pleading for the Resurrection of the Body that dies they plead Tertul. de Resur carnis praescripta adversus Heretic not for it but deny it See then if they be not out of the Apostles Creed and out of the Faith of all the Primitive times who believed and pleaded for the Resurrection of the body But they say to this it was replyed That then every man must rise with two bodies if that body that is Terrestrial must arise and have another body given it but herein his ignorance say they was seen Reply Nay rather your Sophistry appears For is that seed that men sow a Body or not I suppose sense will prove it is for it may be seen felt tasted c. Well then doth God give it a body or no the Apostle saith yes Hath the Seed then two bodies one that is quickened it dying and another that comes up surely no but his giving it a body is his changing it into another body that is a body of another form so is the Resurrection of the dead Phillip 3. 20 21. It is sown a natural body God changes and fashions it mark it into a Spiritual body that 's his giving it a body Even as when the Potter was fashioning a Vessel upon the Wheel and it was broken he made it into another Vessel was there two vessels then one that was made into another and another into which it was made let reason judge t is another body made of the same this mortal shall put on immortality and this corruptible shall put on incorruption But they say of us We have both confuted our selves because in our Post-script we say the Apostle implies plainly that the raised body in the Resurrection shall not be flesh and blood Whence they ask How is it they have pleaded so much for the same that dies to rise again which is a body of flesh and blood when the raised body is not flesh and blood they say whence they conclude us much shut up in Babylon c. Reply Reader mind it again and see whether we or they be in confusion we said the same body should rise but it shall not rise the same we say it shall not rise flesh and blood a carnal natural body follows it Therefore it was not flesh and blood a carnal natural body when it dyed or that the same that was so shall not rise a spiritual body judge of it by this men sow bare grain the bare grain they sow dying is quickened and comes up but the grain they sow comes not up bare grain when it comes up this mortal body that dies shall rise but it shall not rise a mortal body
sure these men have the imperfection of irrationality if they cannot understand this difference We accused John Whitehead for arguing against the Redemption of the body to be expected after death and for saying the Apostles had it before death W. and F. Here they fault us for not expecting the Redemption of the body and our discharge from sin till after death because we said also p. 10. that the nature of man in the Resurrection is discharged of sin which we spake of Christ made under sin and Law and death for us and in the Resurrection namely his resurrection discharged thereof sayes that any thing of our not being discharged of sin as to forgivenesse of it till the resurrection What grosse abuses be these But they plead for John Whiteheads corrupt sayings reproaching our W. and F. expecting the redemption of the body after death as contrary to the Saints expectations for they waited and groaned they say for the redemption of the body from under corruption when they were upon earth and the creature it self was to be brought into the Glorious Liberty of the Sons of God which state was witnessed by as many as were led by the Spirit of God who were sanctified throughout in body in Soul and in Spirit and put not redemption afar off till after death as they say we do Reply Oh monstrous blind corrupted stuffe one would think that all men that read these things should abhor to listen to these Preachers for first they bely the Saints in saying the expecting the redemption of the body after Death is contrary to the Saints expectation did not the Saints expect that after death their bodies should be raised incorruptible Did they look to have their bodies immortal incorruptible powerful and glorious before their death read 1 Cor. 15. and see if these men be not lyars in grain and wofully corrupt like Hymeneus and Phyletus that said the resurrection was past Phil. 3. 20. 21. 2 Tim. 2 17. 18. 2. They aequivocate in saying they waited and groaned for the redemption of the body from under corruption when they were upon earth in one sense it is true and in another false It is true while they were upon earth they exercised their patient waiting and expectation but false that they expected that the redemption of their body should be proved by them before death the redemption of it I say either from all the being of sin therein or to the being of sin in it till death we spake before and proved it from Ps 143. 2. for they say it s sown in corruption and raised in incorruption if it be sown in corruption when it dies then it is not redeemed from corruption before it die 3. That the Creature it self is to be brought into the liberty of the Sons of God is true but that that state was witnessed that is proved by as many as were led by the Spirit of God is false for the Apostle was led by the Spirit of God and so are the Sons of God but if they witnessed the Creatures being brought into the liberty of the Sons of God and the Redemption of their bodies from corruption how sayes he then that the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the Sons of God seeing what they waited for they did not see and prove and so could not witnesse it for if they see it why did they yet wait for it Rom. 8. 14. 19 20. 23 24 25. Why say they the creature it self shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption and not rather is delivered from it yea and why say they expresly we that have the first fruits of the spirit even we our selves groaning within our selves wait for the Adoption the Redemption of the body for we are saved by hope c. Were not the Apostles led by the Spirit that had the first fruits of it And Paul sayes The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of Sin and Death Rom. 8. 2. And were not they sanctified throughout in Body Soul and Spirit at least in good measure And yet we see they did but wait for the Redemption of the Body they did not witnesse it as a thing which they had nor do we ever find them say they had it but they confound the Redemption of the body with the freeing it from sin in it as G. W. in his late dispute with J. H. declared himself alleadging Rom. 8. 2. his being set free from the Law of sin and death for proof that Paul witnessed the Redemption of the body when as Paul had that before he said he waited for this nor doth it prove any absolute freedom from the being of sin in his body Rom. 7. 26. shews So see all men how corrupt the Quakers be and how miserable out of the Apostles Doctrine and Faith And yet fourthly We say not that either we or the Apostles put Redemption far off till after death It is God that hath Ordered the Redemption there spoken of to be after Death that we might first bear the image of the Earthly in a vile Mortal body before we bear the Image of the Heavenly in a Glorious body it was their part and so is ours to groan after it and waite for it till the time of Christs descending from Heaven to change our vile body that it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious body was ever any mans body redeemed from Corruption and Death and Rottennesse before it died They may as well contradict the Apostle and say that which thou sowest is quickened before it die All men may see these be deniers of the Resurrection preached by the Apostles and therefore Teachers that are to be accounted accursed Gal. 1. 8. Note by the way Reader that these men never attempt to answer our Question propounded to them at both our former disputes whether that that shall rise a Spiritual body was ever dead surely they by their shunning it do declare that they do not believe it and therefore by consequence deny the Resurrection of the dead To our charge of them with Antichristianisme in intimately not confessing Christ come in the flesh while they make not the knowledge of him as so come the knowledge to Eternal Salvation but the knowledge of him after the Spirit as he was before the World was in Ed. Burroughs declaration of their faith which charge we managed against them and they could not make good their faith or prove it by Scriptures though they assayed it from 2 Cor. 5. 16. 1 John 1. 1 2 3. And therefore stood concluded Antichristians To this upon further thoughts they give now this answer That W. and F. To know Christ as he is the Power of God is to know him in the Spirit as he was before the World was and that we trust in the living God who is the Saviour of all men especially of them that believe but as he is
Ear rings and Ornaments they were faulted and Aaron too for their casting them off to make an Idol of and sure men and women had better wear such things soberly as these men Pharisaically condemn then make an Idol or false Christ or righteousness to themselves of their casting them off as they led them to do as the false Apostles led their Disciples to do with their observations of times and dayes c. VVhat they say of J. H. he leaves to the Lord to judge the truth of and as for condemning our selves in what we judge others we say we desire to judge our selves and them too in what we are guilty but not in what they foolishly fault us like the Pharisees superstitiously faulting Christs Disciples for things he faulted them not That the Deceivers and Subverters of Souls spake things that the peoples Consciences became in bondage to and many things that through the effect of the Law in their Consciences they could not deny but close with is falsly denyed by them For how else were they transformed into Ministers of Righteousness if they speak nothing suteable to the Letter of the Law of Righteousness so as that the Consciences of people bearing witness to the truth of some of their sayings might be brought to listen to them and receive also their delusions They say The Law in men is Light and it is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus that freeth men from the power of sin and death VVherein still they play the juglers for First neither doth the Apostles say the Law is in every man or in all the Gentiles but he sayes the effect or work of the Law Rom. 2. 14. Secondly The Apostle sayes The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus had made him free from the Law of sin and death not onely from the power of sin and death but from the law that convinces of sin and holds in bondage for it and sentences to death as Rom. 7. 4. Gal. 3. 13. and 4. 4. clearly shew even from under that Law that is in it self holy and just and good yet by reason of the flesh could not justifie or save Now these to hide their deceit seeing that had they cited the Apostles words they insinuate that something reproves of sin that is not Christ as we said they subtilly change his phrase and turn it into another thing How they set themselves masters in mens Consciences for all their feigned humility in denying that title we have before shewed often in this Treatise and therefore here shall wave it W. and F. They say They suffer much for righteousnesse sake and for bearing Testimony against unrighteousnes and we oft cause it c. Who do they here commend themselves and the Jesuites for we said to get themselves a party as the Jesuites do they expose themselves to some sufferings c. and they deny not for they know its true that the Jesuites do so too and think we they do not say its for Righteousnesse sake and for witnessing against unrighteousness and that they may thank the Teachers often for it T is likely the Quakers and they are either the same or of very great affinity yet both their ends shall be according to their works as well as other false Apostles and false Prophets who have exposed themselves too to great sufferings partly of voluntary devotion and will-worship and partly from people against their wills for their falshood as Baals Priests and Prophets did 1 Kings 18. 28. 40. 2 Kings 10. 25. Collossians 2. 20. 21. 22. W. and F. That we have not God nor abide in the Doctrine of Christ they endeavour to prove against us because we say we of this Nation joyning our selves with them as not without guilt have neglected Christ and long abused the Truth But we deny their inference for every neglect of Christ and abuse of his truth deprives not of God nor is accompanied with such transgression as not to abide in his Doctrine for who then should stand as Psal 130. 3. the Apostles had fellowship with God and Christ when yet they had sins to confess and so neglects of Christ and abuses of truth to be cleansed from for in every sin is some neglect of Christ sure and abuse of Truth in some degree or other and such things David Daniel Isaiah and others confessed in effect and yet in so doing that is confessing their sins kept in with God receiving daily forgiveness of them and cleansing from them and though they had some failings in the way yet they abide in it and transgrest not so as to leave the way It is the Deceivers and deceived Generation who leave the Doctrine of Christ for some corrupt mysterie and false imagination that are guilty of such transgressions and abide not in the truth nor have either Father or Son whatever their false boastings be or selfe justifications they are fallen from Christ and be accursed And G. W. knows that the Quakers were proved to be such in our late dispute with him to that purpose The Pharisee that pleaded no sinner was out of the Doctrine of Christ when the Publican that durst not look up because of his sins was nearer in it they that say they have no sin deceive themselves the truth is not in them and so they have not God and Christ when they that confesse their neglects of Christ and abuses of his truth shall find him faithful to forgive their sins and to cleanse them from all unrighteousnesse they are in Gods Doctrine and way to life when the others are far wide of it for he that humbleth himself shall be exalted he that acknowledgeth his sin shall find Mercy when he that hides and dissembles it and lifts up himself as if innocent is out of God and Christ and shall be abased and confounded The rest being frothy and disdainful reproaches we leave them to the judgement of the Lord and shall look to him to plead our cause against them which also blessed be his holy Name he hath in some measure done since the first draught hereof in our latter conflict with G. W. to his no small confusion and to keep people from their strong delusions and specious but most pernicious deceits having we trust so laid open their nakednesse that all that will may see their folly manifest and avoid them and all their Serpent-like windings and insinuations Nor fear we to proceed against them in Print for ought that they threaten us with or can do against us for the more they Print the more shall their folly be made manifest as the Spirit of God hath before signified 2 Tim. 3. 6 7 8 9. In the strength of God therefore and of our Lord Jesus Christ we shall stand against them and all their assaults that their printing can make against us blessing him that he hath counted us worthy who in our selves are most unworthy to be made his instruments to draw out
partaker for a time that he might die for us That through Death he might destroy him that had the power of Death c. 3. To their parenchesis or a humane body we further say Doth the Light in them tell them that carnal and a body of Flesh and Bones and a humane body is alwayes one and the same Let us see if it be not darknesse Humane is alwayes used for the Nature or kind of man as Gods Creature as distinguished from other kinds of Creatures And so a humane body is the body of a man one that is verily a man whether sinful and mortal or not so either the one or the other And so the Body of Adam in his Innocency was humane the body of a man he was verily man yet sinless and so not subject to or in a state of Death though capable of becoming Immortal or mortal but when by sinning he fell from God then he became sinfult and mortal And such are all that by natural propagation come from him as of and from him while in this body not changed by Death yet still humane the nature or kinde remains though degenerated and corrupt God made man upright and t is man still that hath sought out inventions and is become carnal sold under sin Ecles 7. 21. with Gen. 5. 1. 2. and Chap. 8. 21. But the second Adam our Lord Jesus Christ is not a carnal but Spiritual man even from the first of his being made man for though his Body prepared for and taken by him when the word was made flesh was humane of mankinde and so he was a very man Yet he came not by propagation from Adam but though made of a woman of the seed of Abraham and so of Adam of whom Abraham was yet it was in a supernatural way a work of new Creation by the operation of the holy Ghost in the womb of a Virgin that had not known man and was holy being anointed of God with the Holy Ghost and power even in and from his conception and Birth And so that holy thing even before born of her and when born and alwayes without sin yet not Immortal but for a time partakers of Flesh and Blood as the Natural Children of Adam and because therein he was made subject to our infirmities that came on us naturally or as a natural heritage from Adam by reason of sin yet without sin he was said to be made in the likeness of sinful Flesh and his body might be said in some sence to be made a natural body as being partakers with us of Flesh and Blood and so mortal though not in every sence or in a full sence as the naturall Children of Adam are Yet to esteem him sinful Flesh or his body a carnal Body even then when he was on Earth partakers of Flesh and Blood and suffered in the Flesh we account blasphemie much more to esteem his raised and Glorified body in Heaven a carnal body For in his Resurrection form the dead all that weakness and mortality of the Flesh that came on the Nature of man by the first Adams sin and fall which he for a time was subject to in being partakers with us of Flesh Blood it was put off from him that he should no more return to it And so his body is become in a full and Glorious sence Spiritual Gloriously filled with the Spirit of Life and Power yea Immortal a Glorious body he being therein glorified with the Fathers own self and all by vertue of that his once suffering for our sins in the Fâ—esh in which he shed his blood and therein powered out his Soul unto Death laying down his Natural Mortal and Adam-like Life in the Flesh that he might take it again in the Spirit and Glory of the Father by which he was quickened raised from the dead now no more to return to corruption Yet still this raised and Glorious body is humane the body of a man even the man Christ Jesus having Flesh and bones hands and feet which by way of distinction from others and eminency above them is called his flâ—sh and his bones And had these men believed either the great Mystery as now revealed that God was manifested in the flesh in the words being made flesh and dwelling amongst men or the Resurrection of the body of Christ that dyed they would neither have cavelled at the denying his body to be carnal as if it could not stand with the acknowledgement of this man continuing for ever nor have spoken so contemptuously of the Glorious body of Christ And so neither would they have added this following query Is not a fleshly body Carnal To which we further Answer 1. Fleshly and carnal do not alwayes signify the same thing in Scripture for we read of a heart of flesh and fleshly Tables of the Heart Ezek. 36. 26. 2 Cor. 3. 3. whereby fleshly cannot be meant carnal but tender and fit to receive his impression or writing as opposed to a stony hard or carnal heart And though sometimes such expressions as to be flesh or fleshly named after it may be used to signify the weakness and brittleness of the outward man or a helpless withering worthlesse and decaying state which may stand with carnality in Scripture sence though distinct from it because all flesh in its present state is as Grass and the goodlinesse thereof as the flower of the Field fading and withering but the word of the Lord that was made flesh who is the spiritual and heavenly man and he abides for ever Yea though also sometimes a fleshly Mind and fleshly Lusts are equivalent with carnal mindedness and lusts as Rom. 8. 5. to 8. Col. 2. 18. 1 Pet. 2. 11 Yet 2. To have flesh and to be fleshly or named after it is two things whether we take flesh as signifying the outward man or body of man that hath flesh and bones and that whether as natural from Adam or as raised from the dead for there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body and both have flesh though not of or in the same quality or if we take flesh as Signifying the natural Sinfulness or carnal mind as the word is used for both yet to have flesh in either sence and to be fleshly or named after the flesh are not the same nor alwayes meeting in the same person The Apostles did live and walk in the flesh or natural body yet did not war after the flesh nor was fleshly or carnal in their knowings speakings or actings 2 Cor. 10. 3 4. with chap. 1 12 13 and 5. 16. Gal 2 20. with Phil. 1 2â— 24. and yet also they had flesh in the last sence even natural sinfulnesse and carnality still dwelling in them in their flesh members or outward man as from Adam though they were not reckoned after it nor did walk in or after it but did mind and walk in and after the spirit and so were not carnal but Spiritual
signifies Christ as come in the flesh and so takes in that body of his flesh upon the taking whereof that Name was given him as is before noted yea he whom God hath raised from the dead and made both Lord and Christ and so a quickening spirit is said to be Christ of the Seed of David after the flesh Rom. 1. 3 4 with Acts 2. 30. 36. the same that dyed and was buried 1 Cor. 15 3. 4 45. The last Adam as also before is hinted in not confessing which they privily deny what they pretend to grant and their seeming grant is like John VVhiteheads concerning the Resurrection of Christ who at our meeting with him at Gedney pretended to believe that the same Christ that took flesh in a body prepared for him of the Seed of Abraham and David and in that body served and suffered for at a time that the same Christ was raised and glorified with the Fathers own self And yet then would by no means acknowledge though oft intreated and urged to speak plainly to the Question that he was raised and did live again and continue for ever in the same body in which he so served and suffered or that the same body that then once in the last ages suffered and was hung on the Tree was raised again from the dead and is now alive for evermore yea at last he deneyed that the same dead bodies of men that dye in Adam shall be raised and made alive again from the dead that even the same that sleep in the dust of the earth shall come forth of their Graves by Christ and so consequently that Christ is raised for if the dead rise not then is not Christ raised for Jesus Christ was dead and buried as before we have shewed So then their immagination or meaning in this equivocal grant appears to be this That the same Christ that had a body distinct from all other in which in the dayes of his flesh he suffered is now raised ascended and gone out of that body of his flesh into some imaginary spiritual being which in that body of his flesh he could not be made yet that in that his spiritual being he is in the bodies or bodies and souls of divers persons working doing or suffering the same things in them which were typically or as a Pattern suffered and done in that body of his flesh and so they neither confess him already come in the flesh or as having finished that his coming in the flesh or first appearing to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself and so the works the Father gave him to do on the earth in that his once suffering for sin nor do they confesse yea they deny Jesus to be the very Christ who is made a quickening spirit and therefore we have laid down our answer plainly and distinctly that it s not onely the same that had a body and therein once suffered but also that it s he in the same body of his flesh in which he once suffered for sins even the same Jesus whom they crucified slew and hung on a Tree that God hath made the Lord and Christ and so a quickening spirit and have explained and confirmed our answer in the expressions of the Scripture quoted by them that its the last Adam c. of which they take no notice for that fully shews the fulnesse and ungodlinesse of their immagination which therefore we again desire the Reader to mind viz. that that Scripture 1 Cor. 15. 45. speaks of two Adams the first Adam the last Adam so then they were both men and had each the personal body of a man when those things there spoken of were verified in them yea so expresly called vers 47. the first man the second man It was the first man Adam that was made a living Soul and so it is the last Adam the second man that was made a quickening spirit The Lord formed the body of the first Adam of the dust of the earth and then breathed into his nostrils the breath of life Gen. 2. 7. and man became a living Soul the breath of Life did not annihilate the body formed of the dust but enlive and quicken it by possessing it and defusing it self in and through all the parts and members of it so that that breath of Life and the body of the man united the man became a Living Soul it is not said it or the breath of life became so but the man upon Gods breathing in that breath of life he even the first man Adam became a living Soul And had he abode in that uprightnesse and innocency in which he was made he might have lived for ever but as there was then none dead for him to quicken so neither was he fitted for such a work so that when he this first man Adam not keeping his first estate but seeking out inventions sinned and fell from God under the Sentence of and into a state of death and Separation from God and so death passed upon all men and they are all partakers of flesh and blood forasmuch as all have sinned in that offence of one they must all have been shut out and perished for ever in that losse and misery if God had not found out and prepared a second man Adam and made him a quickening Spirit for as by man came death so by man also the abolishing of and resurrection from the dead such was mans condition by reason of sin entered and overspreading the nature and death already passed on him in the Sentence of God that without another man a second Adam in whom Gods Truth might be fulfilled and his Justice satisfied in the punishment of sin death of the sinner and through whose Sufferings by his overcoming death the Righteousnesse of God might appear and shine forth therein we could not have been quickened or made alive Therefore for the recovery of fallen man that he might not be utterly expelled or shut out in the first death and banishment but such Redemption wrought and obtained for him that through the Redeemer he might be saved and that they might be all in due time made alive or raised from the first death to appear before the judgement Seat of their Redeemer therefore God found out and prepared a second Adam and made him a quickening spirit Now this second Adam was even his onely begotten Son the Word that was in the beginning with God and so before the first Adam and he by whom and for whom the first Adam and all things were made that were made the proper Lord and Heir of all things for he onely was able and meet to undertake such a work and to have help laid upon him for us but he was made flesh of a woman and so made man the second Adam in the fulnesse of time once in the end of the World and that by a wonderful work of new Creation by the Grace Gift and Appointment of the Father and by the Operation
preciousness thereof for our help which is shewed in the discovery of him as now raised from the dead in the same body in which he Suffered those things and standing by means of that his death the prOpitiation for our sins and our advocate with the Father c. as before in which all True Believers have the ground of their peace rejoycing and hope and so in Christ Jesus all other rejoycings are fleshly and after the sensual mind whence the Apostle determined not to know any thing among believers but Jesus Christ and him crucified not crucifying or often Suffering from the foundation of the world yea God forbid that we should rejoyce in any thing save in the Cross of Christ by whom the world is crucified to us and we to the world for the Preaching of that is to them that perish foolishness but to us that are saved the Power of God 1 Cor. 1. 18. 24. and 2. 2. Heb. 9. 25 26. and Gal. 6. 14. 2 That such things as are done and past as to the actual accomplishment of them long before Men had their particular beings in the world yet may be spiritually fed on by those Men and so eaten and drunk in a like sence as in which the flesh and blood of Christ is said to be eaten and drunk though not remaining in a present or sencible being to them or otherwise then in the virtue and fruit of then this might be shewed in other things mentioned in the Scripture as Types and patterns of this as the Lords passing over the houses of the Children of Israel in Aegypt when he smote the Aegyptians was to be remembred and rejoyced in throughout their Generations and therefore that day to be kept for a memorial a feast to the Lord by an ordinance for ever Exod. 12. 12 14 27. So we also are instructed to keep the feast of rejoycing in Christ in thankful commemmoration of what he hath done for saith the Text Christ our Passover is sacrificed not sacrificing or daily and often offering himself but this he did once that is the ground of our rejoycing in him evermore he is sacrificed for us 1 Cor. 5. 7 8. Again Gods dividing the Sea by his strength and breaking the heads of the Dragons in the waters and so the broken heads of Leviathan even Pharaoh and his host as broken and destroyed in the Red Sea was given for meat to the people inhabiting in the Wildernesse Psal 74. 13 14. though yet Pharaoh and his host was not in a present sensible being near that people all the time they were meat for them nor yet their drowning or destruction actually done in their sight or before them all along but once finished and therefore so worthy to be remembred and such matter of feeding and rejoycing to them in after ages Psal 81. 5. 10. and 78. and 105. and 106. but it is so clear in this which is the Truth and fulnesse of all those Types and Patterns namely the flesh of Christ and the blood of Christ and so evident in what is already said of it that more need not be said to shew and prove that that flesh of Christ even the words being made flesh in the similitude of sinful flesh and so his whole abasement and sufferings in the flesh the dayes of which are past Heb. 5. 7. 1 Pet. 3. 18. and so his blood his sufferings even to blood to death in the flesh which as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining of it is now past and finished yea therefore because his sufferings and death is so finished that he is in the virtue and bye means thereof raised and glorified in the same body for us as is before shewed so that he can die no more therefore is his flesh meat indeed and his blood drink indeed the Lords Death worthy for ever to be remembred and rejoyced in himself in the Infinite Grace of it and everlasting Virtue and Fruit of it that Bread of God the Bread of Life c. As aforesaid But for a little further demonstration how such a thing may be and is that even his personal Sufferings and Abasement in the flesh and so the Lords death may be eaten and drunk now so long after the actual accomplishment and sustaining of it is past as also that it might be so before its manifestation or coming forth into actual and sensible being for he did not often Suffer for sin from the Foundation of the world but once in the end of the world as Heb. 9. 26. 1 Pet. 3. 18. For some further demonstration of this we say We shall here add a word or two to shew what the eating his flesh and drinking his blood is or how and in what manner it may be eaten and drunk and so how the Blood of Christ purgeth the Conscience The eating and drinking here is not naturally or bodily with the mouth but mentally with the Mind Spirit or inner man and that not in or by a sensual immagination or apprehension of seeing feeling or proving the works Sufferings or things that are the bottom matter of feeding and rejoycing to the heart as acted in them or in the present time before them but it is by faith as Ephes 3. 16 17. yea the eating and drinking is an act and exercise of faith as opposed to sight or sence we walk saies the Apostle and so the Just shall live Rom. 1. 17. Heb. 10. 38 by faith not by sight and so the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself note that he saith not is giving or giveth but gave himself for me the love that was manifested in that unspeakable gift and perfect offering of himself already prepared and perfected and so those works already finished on the earth through which that love is still manifested and commended are mentioned as the bottom ground of his faith and so matter of his feeding so that though the Apostles had seen the Lord yet they did not now live by that sight but by faith as opposed to sight yea blessed are those that have not so seen and yet believed saith our Saviour And the Apostle Peter saith That even those that were partakers of like precious faith with them yet had not so seen him as they had done but did believe and rejoyce in him though now they see him not John 20. 29. 1 Pet. 1. 8. and it is in such believing on him as the Scripture hath said that himself and him crucified and so his flesh and his blood is eaten and drunk as may be seen in John 6. 35. with chap. 7. 37 38 39. A man believing in and with the heart the record that God hath given of Christ that is receiving withal acceptation loving and closing with it according to the understanding given him as a good and faithful saying letting it dwell in him and so having his heart exercised in it and by
not in it as Thomas Moor affirmed Ans They wrest Thomas Moors words as is shewed in the reply to them pa. 3 and 4. therefore we shall say the lesse to it here What he said was by way of return to their saying that the life is in the blood as applying it to Christ in answer to which he spake to this purpose That those sayings Gen. 9. 4. Levit. 17. 11. 14 are spoken of other mortal Creatures distinct from mortal man and though it may be truly affirmed of mortal man also as to the natural life of the Body Yet it neither is nor can be truly affirmed of him whom God hath raised from the dead that his life which he now liveth by the power of God by which he was raised from the dead is in or by the supply of material blood as the natural life of the natural and mortal body is for in him being raised from the dead all mortality is put off But that the life he now liveth by the Father and in the Power of God for us is by means and in the virtue of his blood or death in the flesh once suffered for our sins by which he hath obtained eternal redemption and life into himself for us and is the Mediator between God and men the Apostle and High Priest of our Profession And that the life he giveth to the World is by virtue of that his Blood And the life he giveth to them that feed on him by faith is not onely by virtue of it but in the Spiritual discoveries of it and love commended through it in the Preaching of his Cross as before shewed this he also then and still affirmeth as also is shewed in our former Answers Quest 15. How many comings of Christ do you own seeing you have his second coming without sin to salvation yet to look for Ans Hitherto they have played the part of the false Christs foretold by our Saviour Mat. 24. 24. privily denying the Lord that bought them as 2 Pet. 2. 1. in the excellency of his personal Body and the works finished by him in that his own Body on the earth and in his infinite fulnesse and glory by means of death possessed by him for us in that body raised from the dead that so they might make way for their lifting up something else in the name anâ— place thereof as Mat. 24. 5. And now they proceed more plainly to act the part also of the false Prophets there also foretold vers 11. 23. 26. scoffing at â—he promise of his second coming his glorious personal appearing as it is owned and acknowledged by all that believe through and according to the Apostles Doctrine as that which is yet to be looked and waited for all the time of this present World 2 Pet. 3. 3 4. 10. 12. with Tit. 2. 12 13. plainly implying they have it not yet to look for and so intimately saying Lo here or lo there in this or that present operation or sensual imagination Christs appearing the second time without sin to salvation and so consequently the resurrection is already made and past to them as Mat. 24. 23. 26. with 2 Tim. 2. 18. Nor is this any more then is expresly affirmed by them in their pretended answer to J. H. and T. M. Junior called A brief discovery of the dangerous Principles of J. H. and T. M. c. where page 9. They say That the Saints which then were alive remained unto that coming of Christ spoken of 1 Thes 4. 15. and Phil. 3. 20. 21. The groundlesnesse falsenesse and wickednesse of which is shewen in the reply to it see the fuller discovery of the Dangerous Principles and lying spirit of the people called Quakers page to which we refer the Reader And here also that we may further shew by the Scriptures the Truth of God reproached by them and manifest the folly and wickednesse of their spirit we further answer to this question 1. There are comings of Christ in a divers sence mentioned in the Scripture for there are comings of Christ in respect of which it is said he came unto his own even to Israel after the flesh to gather them c. often from the beginning of their being a people John 1. 11. Mat. 23. 37. yea he was in the World and went by his Spirit in the ministration of Noah to the Spirits of men then John 1. 5. 10. 1 Pet. 3. 19 20 And there are comings of Christ in such a sence spoken of in Scripture as in respect of which it is said he appeared and came into the World not often but once in the end of the World personally to Minister and to give his life a ransome for many and so to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself Matthew 20. 28. 1 Pet. 3. 18. with Heber 9. 26. There are providential comings of Christ to men both more particularly and more generally and that both in more then ordinary demonstrations of his power and goodnesse in special mercies and blessings as John â— 11. and in like manifestations of his severity in some great and signal corrections or judgements as Rev. 2. 5. and 3. 3. There are also spiritual comings and manifestations of himself to men severally in their several times to the opening and enlightening the blind minds and moving sinners to repentance Isa 50. 2 with c. 42. 1. 7 and 55. 1. 6. 1 Tim. 2. 6. and to the quickening refreshing and satisfying the souls of such as hear and receive his sayings with the further discoveries openings tastes and operations of his goodnesse such as John 14. 16. 18. 21. 23. Rev. 3. 20. and of his comings in both these sences there are more then can be numbred nor of these read we of first or second so called but then there are also personal and bodily appearances and comings of Christ into the World or his coming into the world and appearing on the earth in a real body prepared for him spoken of in the Scripture and called the comings and dayes of the Son of man of Christ of the Seed of David after the flesh and of these a first and a second The first was when that Body of his flesh was prepared for him in the womb of a Virgin when the fulnesse of time was come God sent forth his Son made of a woman c. wherefore when he cometh into the world he saith A body hast thou prepared me Lo I come c. Gal. 4. 4. Heb. 10. 5. 10. And so he once in the end of the World and not often from the foundation of the World appeared to put away sin by the Sacrifice of himself even by and through the offering up his body once for all which was therefore prepared for him that he might therein be capable of doing and do the Will of the Father for the Redemption and sanctification of sinful men even that he might in that body finish the Works the Father gave him to do on
the foolish woman they pursue their wicked enterprize in this order as may be seen in these Queries 1. Seeking to make void and of no effect the Personal Cross of Christ in what he hath already done and compleated in himself thereby for men and so privily to deny the Lord that bought them and render the Preaching of his Cross and faith in him of no effect 2. To overthrow the Hope of the Gospel even of the second personal coming of Christ from Heaven and the Salvation then to be revealed and so to undermine the Doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and of eternal judgment by the man Christ Jesus 3. Thereby to render needless useless and contemptible those his wayes and Ordinances in which he hath appointed us to remember him in what he hath done and thence to consider him in what he is thereby become for us and to us and to be exercised in our waiting for his second coming and the salvation then to be revealed and surely where they can prevail in the two first they may easily prevail in the latter for to what end or purpose should they observe any of those his wayes and Ordinances that are appointed for remembering and shewing forth the Lords death and the infinite and abiding virtue and pretiousnesse of that and that in them we should be exercised to an expectation and waiting for his second coming who believe neither so as to have their faith in the first and from thence their hope of the second for if the dead rise not then is not Christ risen from the dead and then neither can there be any expectation of his coming again in that body in which he suffered or of any hope by him in or of another life after death and then the Apostles preaching is vain and the Ordinances as delivered by them of no use or worth to be kept by us baptizing in the Name of Christ as delivered by them and so the Supper of the Lord empty and unprofitable things And doublesse if these men as they seem to intimate do grant any use of such an Ordinance for shewing forth the Lords Death at any time yet then either they mean it not otherwise then as for commemorating and shewing forth a type or shadow whose truth and body is to be sought for in something else and not in the thing commemorated or else by the Lord they mean not that Jesus of Nazareth whom God hath made Lord and Christ and by that they call the Lords death they mean not that death of his Crosse which he once suffered in that body of his flesh for our sins and can suffer or die no more And however that they have no Faith in him or these things of him is fully manifested in their former questions but seek to lift up something else in the Name and place of him and then what profit can there be to them in treating with them about his Ordinances while they are so wholly void of judgement in the great things of his Law as before is shewed But for the help of others that are not yet wholly turned aside after Satan we answer to this Query That the taking blessing and breaking Bread and the taking and blessing the cup and so eating and drinking of them as Christ hath appointed to shew forth the Lords death is an Ordinance to continue in the Church till the end of the World or which is all one till his coming again 1 Cor. 11. 23 24 25 26 and 10. 16. Mat. 24 3. and 28. 20. And for further helpfulnesse in the understanding and use of it we add I. The thing to be commemorated and shewed forth in that Ordinance is not our Mortifications sufferings qualifications or works wrought in or by us but the Lords death 1. The death of him that was the Lord from Heaven before he died even in the beginning with God the proper Lord and heir of all the Kingdom and glory of God for the Father sent forth his onely begotten Son by his Grace to taste death for us which shews our sinfulnesse miserie and helplesnesse and so the necessity of his death for us in respect of us as also its Excellency for our help likewise 2. It s the death of him that is the Lord Gloriously made both Lord and Christ in that body in which he died and by means of his death for us for he died once and can die no more but is now alive for evermore and hath the keyes of Hell and Death which shewes the preciousnesse of his death for us seeing by means of it he ever liveth for us in the Power and Glory of God II. This is to be remembered and so commemorated and shewed forth in that Ordinance as that which is alwayes and for ever to be remembred and that imports 1. That the thing itself the Lords death as to the actual accomplishment and sustaining of it is already past and over being finished in his own body For remembrance is of things past as is fore hinted 2. And that the precious virtue and efficacie of it abides for ever with the Father for us in his appearing in his presence in that body Glorified as Lord and Christ by means thereof and so remaines in and through him that is the Lord in the Name of the Father to us Likewise 3. That the vertue efficacy and fruit of it is brought to us in the Preachin of his Crosse and through the witnesses of it and of the Grace in and through it and to be met within the believing remembrance and acknowledgment of it for with the heart man believeth unto Righteousnesse and with the mouth confession is made to Salvation III. That therefore he hath appointed together with the Preaching of the Crosse this outward Ordinance for the remembering and shewing forth the Lords death till he come Which implyes that there is even in believers in their several ages till that his coming again natural dulnesse and pronenesse to forget it and with that also a natural aptnesse to be either looking singly on their sins or enemies to their discouragement and fainting in the way or else on their personal Mortifications Sufferings Victories or Works to a rejoycing and lifting up themselves in something that is not the Lord and therefore need of such mementoes And it shews the Gratious mind of God to us that we should have the Lords death alwayes in remembrance and in our acknowledgement which onely will keep us from fainting in the way and instruct and strengthen to relinquish all rejoycing in the flesh for the Excellency of the knowledge of him and therefore he hath appointed such means to stir us up by putting in remembrance often IV. This Ordinance is by the Lord appointed to the Church and so to be used in it and in the societies of it whereever two or three are gathered in his Name in the beliefe of his sayings and of the Grace commended through his death drawn