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A56601 An appendix to the third part of The friendly debate being a letter of the conformist to the non-conformist : together with a postscript / by the same author.; Friendly debate between a conformist and a non-conformist. Part 3, Appendix Patrick, Simon, 1626-1707. 1670 (1670) Wing P746; ESTC R13612 87,282 240

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the Altar of Damascus affirms that there were either silenced or deprived upon the account of not conforming three hundred preaching Ministers Dr. Heylyn indeed informs me that it doth not appear upon the Rolls that the●e were above nine and forty deprived upon all occasions till the death of Archbishop Bancroft and so the whole Number of the silenced and deprived might not be so great as they pretended You must conclude one of these two things either that they loved then when occasion served to make a Mountain of a Mole-hill or now they are desirous to do the just contrary and depress their Number to little or nothing And in like manner now he tells us the people dissatisfied with the Liturgy or Ceremonies are ten if not an hundred to one to what they were formerly and yet then they talkt of many thousands z Humble Supplication p. 36. of the most loyal and best affected Subjects that joyned with them in their Affection to the desired Reformation That is they talk boldly and at random out of their own imaginations as if they wrote to simple Ideots that believe every word without chewing Otherwise this Apologist would not have told us that Mr. Hildersham was silenced but in some Dioceses c. p. 7. whereas Mr. Clark tells us expresly that he was not onely silenced but deprived for refusing of Subscription 1605. and was not allowed to preach till 1608. and within less then a year silenced again and continued so a long time Nay was judicially admonished in the High Commission 22 April 1613 and enjoyned that saving the Catechising of his own family he should not at any time hereafter preach catechise or use any part of the Office or Function of a Minister either privately or publikely until he was restored c. And that it was not till 1625 that he was licensed to preach in some Dioceses How it was with others I have not had occasion to observe and now have not leisure to examine but have cause from this to suspect that he doth not report these matters clearly and with sincerity And indeed overweening of mens selves is apt to blinde them and make them imagine any thing will pass for truth and for sound reason which comes out of their mouthes One would wonder what he thinks our brains are made of who puts us off with such slender stuff as this for an excuse of their holding Meetings separate from us It is no schism nor a breach of the unity of the Church because they take occasion to meet for a time onely till a door be opened for them in the Church by the removal of some supposed or real corruption in the publike Worship As if there were no breach in a garment when it is rent because it may be sowed together again But yet this the Apologist thinks makes the Separation of the Non conformists from the Church of England not total and perpetual p. 11. which he repeats again p. 128. and calls it a temporary and partial withdrawing A very sorry employment this is for a Divine as I take him to be to spend his time in sowing a few fig-leaves together to cover the shame of a sinful disobedience to their Governours and the great breach they have made in the unity of the Church For it may be demonstrated from his own words that this is a meer shift and frivolous excuse He confesses a Separation onely he addes that it is but temporary The cause of this temporary Separation is a supposed or real corruption in the publike Worship I ask now Is this corruption such whether real or supposed that it is a just cause for a Separation If it be not they ought not to withdraw themselves for a time If it be they may withdraw themselves from us alway And so they will according to these Principles for if this corruption be not removed they must alway continue separated or else it is no sufficient reason for separating now Do what they can they are not like the old Nonconformists for they did not withdraw themselves into separate bodies no not for a time If they had upon his Principles they must have died Separatists there being no removal of what they wished taken out of the way as these men are like to do unless they repent and alter their practices in stead of desiring an alteration in the Publick Worship Besides he is very ignorant of the state of our affairs who doth not know it hath been the manner of this Sect to proceed from evil to worse since the very beginning of it which makes me think it past doubt that they will settle in a down-right Separation At the first they onely disliked some Ceremonies See the Visitation speech at Lisnegarvy p. 5. and could pretty well digest conformity in the rest In a little time they manifested a dislike of Episcopal Government being better affected to the device of Mr. Calvin and together with that they distasted also our Common prayer From a dislike Some proceeded to think them unlawful and then fell into a contempt of Bishops and the Prayers bitterly rayling against them From hence they advanced to open disobedience to all the Orders of the Church and at last renounced it and rent themselves from it esteeming themselves the onely Brethren and Congregation of the Faithful Some there were indeed that did not go thus far and being silenced or deprived for not conforming to the Ceremonies would not separate from the Church nor refused to joyn with our Assemblies This Apologist would have us think that he and his Brethren are the followers of those and yet confesses they are gone a large step beyond them having separated for a time And the same reason which hath carried them thus far will advance them further and make that time so long that it will prove alway They will teach next that Gods people must be Separatists a Protestation protested 1641. In order to which we must be that part of the kingdom which is the world and not the Church of Christ b Groans for Liberty 1646 And still they will have a further journey to go and never rest till they be uppermost and have set Jesus Christ that is themselves upon his throne What ground any man can have to hope any better I cannot imagine they being so bent to defend their present unwarrantable practices that they will flie to any refuge though never so dangerous nay take sanctuary in shadows and think they are safe rather then yield the cause An instance of which you have in this Writer who immediately after that which was now noted alledges the words of a Romish Doctor mentioned by Bishop Bramhal to excuse them from Schism p. 12. But let any man consult the place and he will finde presently they are nothing to the business For the Bishop is there speaking c Vindic. of the Church of Engl. p. 7. onely concerning clashings between Bishops and