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death_n according_a ancient_a answer_n 20 3 6.5945 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A27112 Certamen religiosum, or, A conference between the late King of England and the late Lord Marquesse of Worcester concerning religion together with a vindication of the Protestant cause from the pretences of the Marquesse his last papers which the necessity of the King's affaires denyed him oportunity to answer. Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657? 1651 (1651) Wing B1507; ESTC R23673 451,978 466

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of_o the_o covenant_n gen._n 17._o 11._o be_v a_o explication_n of_o that_o which_o go_v before_o ver_fw-la 10._o viz._n that_o circumcision_n be_v the_o covenant_n now_o if_o the_o one_o be_v a_o explication_n of_o the_o other_o then_o needs_o must_v the_o word_n covenant_n be_v take_v alike_o in_o both_o he_o be_v also_o contrary_a unto_o reason_n for_o it_o be_v absurd_a to_o say_v that_o a_o covenant_n do_v proper_o signify_v both_o a_o promise_n and_o also_o a_o instrument_n whereby_o the_o promise_n be_v apply_v as_o well_o may_v one_o say_v that_o christ_n body_n do_v proper_o signify_v both_o his_o body_n and_o also_o the_o sacrament_n of_o his_o body_n a_o covenant_n in_o the_o very_a nature_n of_o it_o be_v proper_o take_v do_v signify_v a_o promise_n and_o therefore_o the_o instrument_n whereby_o it_o be_v apply_v can_v proper_o be_v the_o covenant_n but_o only_o the_o token_n pledge_v and_o assurance_n of_o it_o it_o may_v as_o well_o be_v say_v that_o a_o covenant_n may_v 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acknowledgement_n the_o father_n be_v on_o our_o side_n orig._n hom._n 2._o in_o levit._n s._n chrys_n lib._n 3._o de_fw-fr sacerd._n s._n aug._n in_o speculo_fw-la &_o ser._n 215._o the_o temp_n vener_n bed_n in_o 6._o mark_v and_o s._n james_n and_o many_o other_o thus_o most_o sacred_a sir_n we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o wave_v the_o scripture_n umpirage_n so_o that_o you_o will_v hear_v it_o speak_v in_o the_o mother_n language_n and_o not_o produce_v it_o as_o a_o witness_n on_o your_o side_n when_o the_o producer_n tell_v we_o nothing_o but_o their_o own_o meaning_n in_o a_o language_n unknown_a to_o all_o the_o former_a age_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o that_o she_o say_v so_o and_o they_o will_v have_v it_o so_o because_o he_o that_o have_v a_o bible_n and_o a_o sword_n shall_v carry_v away_o the_o meaning_n from_o he_o that_o have_v a_o bible_n and_o never_o a_o sword_n nor_o be_v it_o more_o blasphemy_n to_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o church_n off_o spring_n 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ship_n of_o the_o prophet_n to_o exclude_v the_o noble_a army_n of_o martyr_n and_o the_o holy_a church_n which_o through_o all_o the_o world_n do_v acknowledge_v christ_n wherefore_o have_v show_v your_o majesty_n how_o much_o the_o scripture_n be_v we_o i_o shall_v now_o consider_v your_o opinion_n apart_o from_o we_o and_o see_v how_o they_o be_v you_o and_o who_o side_n with_o you_o in_o your_o opinion_n beside_o yourselves_o and_o first_o i_o shall_v crave_v the_o boldness_n to_o begin_v with_o the_o protestant_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o church_n of_o england_n whose_o religion_n as_o it_o be_v in_o opposition_n to_o we_o consist_v altogether_o in_o deny_v for_o what_o she_o affirm_v we_o affirm_v the_o same_o as_o the_o real_a presence_n the_o infallibility_n visibility_n universality_n and_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n confession_n and_o remission_n of_o sin_n freewill_n and_o possibility_n of_o keep_v the_o commandment_n etc._n etc._n all_o these_o thing_n you_o deny_v and_o you_o may_v as_o well_o deny_v the_o bless_a trinity_n for_o we_o have_v no_o such_o word_n in_o scripture_n only_a inference_n then_o that_o which_o you_o have_v already_o deny_v and_o for_o which_o we_o have_v plain_a scripture_n father_n counsel_n practise_v of_o the_o church_n that_o which_o you_o hold_v positive_a in_o your_o discipline_n be_v more_o erroneous_a then_o that_o which_o be_v negative_a in_o your_o doctrine_n as_o your_o maintain_v a_o woman_n to_o be_v head_n supreme_a or_o moderatrix_n in_o the_o church_n who_o by_o the_o apostle_n rule_n be_v not_o to_o speak_v in_o the_o church_n or_o that_o a_o layman_n may_v be_v so_o what_o scripture_n or_o father_n or_o custom_n have_v you_o for_o this_o or_o that_o a_o layman_n as_o your_o lay-chancellour_n shall_v excommunicate_v and_o deliver_v up_o soul_n to_o satan_n whereas_o matter_n of_o so_o weighty_a concernment_n as_o deliver_v of_o man_n soul_n into_o the_o devil_n hand_n shall_v not_o be_v execute_v and_o upon_o mature_a deliberation_n and_o immergent_fw-la occasion_n and_o not_o by_o any_o but_o those_o who_o have_v the_o undoubted_a authority_n lest_o otherwise_o you_o make_v the_o authority_n itself_o to_o be_v doubt_v of_o a_o strange_a religion_n who_o minister_n be_v deny_v the_o power_n of_o remit_v sin_n whilst_o layman_n be_v admit_v to_o the_o power_n of_o retain_v they_o and_o that_o upon_o every_o ordinary_a occasion_n as_o nonpayment_n of_o fee_n and_o the_o like_a whereas_o such_o practice_n as_o these_o have_v render_v the_o rod_n of_o aaron_n no_o more_o formidable_a than_o a_o reed_n shake_v with_o the_o wind_n so_o that_o you_o have_v bring_v it_o to_o this_o that_o whilst_o such_o man_n as_o these_o be_v permit_v to_o excommunicate_v for_o a_o threepeny_n matter_n the_o people_n make_v not_o a_o threepeny_n matter_n of_o their_o excommunication_n the_o church_n of_o saxony_n now_o for_o the_o church_n of_o saxony_n you_o shall_v find_v luther_n 1525._o a_o man_n not_o only_a obtrude_a new_a doctrine_n upon_o his_o disciple_n without_o scripture_n or_o contrary_a to_o scripture_n but_o also_o doctrine_n deny_v scripture_n to_o be_v scripture_n and_o vilipend_v those_o book_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v receive_v into_o the_o canon_n and_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v the_o word_n of_o god_n in_o all_o age_n as_o the_o book_n of_o eccles_n say_n that_o it_o have_v never_o a_o perfect_a sentence_n in_o it_o and_o that_o the_o author_n thereof_o have_v neither_o boot_n nor_o spur_n but_o rid_v upon_o a_o long_a stick_n or_o beg_v shoe_n as_o he_o do_v when_o he_o be_v a_o friar_n test_n and_o the_o book_n of_o job_n that_o the_o argument_n thereof_o be_v a_o mere_a fiction_n invent_v only_o for_o the_o set_n down_o of_o a_o true_a and_o lively_a example_n of_o patience_n prophet_n that_o it_o be_v a_o false_a opinion_n and_o to_o be_v abolish_v that_o there_o be_v four_o gospel_n and_o that_o the_o gospel_n of_o s._n john_n be_v only_o true_a 3._o 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eternity_n even_o according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n tax_v for_o it_o by_o zw_v in_o these_o word_n how_o can_v christ_n then_o be_v say_v to_o be_v bear_v of_o a_o woman_n 402._o he_o affirm_v that_o as_o christ_n die_v with_o great_a pain_n so_o he_o seeem_v to_o have_v sustain_v pain_n in_o hell_n after_o death_n 219._o that_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n suffer_v or_o else_o he_o be_v none_o of_o his_o christ_n 76._o that_o if_o the_o humane_a nature_n shall_v only_o suffer_v for_o he_o that_o christ_n be_v but_o a_o saviour_n of_o a_o vile_a account_n and_o have_v need_v himself_o of_o another_o saviour_n 454._o luther_n hold_v not_o only_a consubstantiation_n but_o also_o say_v hospinian_n that_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n both_o be_v and_o may_v be_v find_v according_a
this_o sense_n agree_v with_o that_o which_o be_v say_v of_o christ_n 2_o cor._n 13._o 4._o for_o though_o he_o be_v crucify_v through_o weakness_n yet_o he_o live_v by_o the_o power_n of_o god_n beside_o if_o we_o shall_v read_v quicken_v in_o the_o spirit_n and_o by_o spirit_n understand_v christ_n soul_n it_o will_v follow_v that_o christ_n soul_n affert_fw-la be_v sometime_o dead_a this_o be_v austin_n argument_n against_o that_o exposition_n as_o be_v observe_v by_o bellarmine_n who_o say_v that_o the_o argument_n do_v not_o conclude_v for_o that_o often_o in_o the_o scripture_n that_o be_v say_v to_o be_v quicken_v which_o be_v not_o put_v to_o death_n but_o his_o answer_n be_v not_o satisfactory_a for_o though_o it_o be_v true_a that_o in_o the_o scripture_n to_o quicken_v or_o to_o make_v alive_a be_v sometime_o no_o more_o than_o to_o preserve_v vivificare_fw-la and_o keep_v alive_a as_o 1_o sam._n 27._o 11._o and_o 2_o sam._n 8._o 2._o where_o both_o in_o the_o original_a and_o in_o the_o vulgar_a latin_a the_o word_n use_v do_v signify_v to_o make_v alive_a yet_o nevertheless_o nothing_o in_o scripture_n be_v say_v to_o be_v make_v that_o be_v keep_v alive_a but_o that_o which_o be_v obnoxious_a unto_o death_n and_o may_v die_v but_o christ_n soul_n and_o general_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n be_v of_o a_o immortal_a nature_n and_o do_v not_o die_v when_o the_o body_n die_v beside_o what_o great_a matter_n be_v it_o as_o estius_n observe_v if_o when_o christ_n body_n die_v his_o soul_n do_v remain_v ibid._n alive_a when_o as_o even_o in_o the_o worst_a man_n that_o be_v the_o soul_n do_v not_o die_v as_o be_v by_o nature_n immortal_a and_o therefore_o he_o say_v it_o be_v better_a understand_v thus_o christ_n be_v quicken_v in_o the_o spirit_n that_o be_v he_o be_v make_v a_o quicken_a spirit_n viz._n when_o he_o rise_v from_o death_n unto_o life_n immortal_a and_o he_o cite_v that_o 1_o cor._n 15._o 45._o the_o first_o man_n adam_n be_v make_v a_o live_a 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must_v be_v mean_v of_o come_v and_o preach_v by_o the_o apostle_n for_o otherwise_o christ_n in_o his_o own_o person_n do_v not_o come_v and_o preach_v unto_o they_o and_o thus_o estius_n note_v it_o to_o be_v expound_v by_o ambrose_n the_o interlineary_a gloss_n aquinas_n lyra_n and_o cajetane_v it_o be_v object_v again_o that_o by_o spirit_n in_o prison_n can_v be_v understand_v live_v man_n except_o s._n peter_n shall_v on_o suprà_fw-la purpose_n speak_v improper_o and_o obscure_o i_o answer_v according_a to_o bezaes_n exposition_n which_o in_o his_o particular_a do_v differ_v from_o austin_n and_o be_v the_o more_o probable_a not_o live_v man_n but_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n separate_v from_o their_o body_n be_v term_v spirit_n in_o prison_n as_o be_v in_o the_o prison_n of_o hell_n when_o peter_n write_v of_o they_o though_o they_o be_v not_o so_o but_o be_v join_v to_o their_o body_n and_o so_o both_o soul_n and_o body_n join_v together_o be_v live_v man_n when_o christ_n preach_v unto_o they_o but_o bellarmine_n further_o object_n that_o 1_o pet._n 4._o 6._o where_o it_o be_v say_v that_o ibid._n the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v to_o the_o dead_a which_o he_o will_v have_v so_o understand_v as_o that_o man_n be_v dead_a and_o depart_v out_o of_o this_o life_n the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v unto_o they_o but_o the_o true_a and_o genuine_a meaning_n of_o the_o word_n rather_o be_v this_o that_o the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v to_o they_o that_o be_v now_o dead_a though_o they_o be_v not_o dead_a but_o alive_a when_o the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v unto_o they_o even_o as_o in_o the_o verse_n immediate_o go_v before_o it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n will_v judge_v both_o the_o quick_a and_o the_o dead_a that_o be_v those_o that_o be_v now_o alive_a or_o shall_v be_v alive_a at_o christ_n come_v and_o those_o that_o be_v now_o dead_a or_o shall_v be_v dead_a at_o christ_n come_v who_o yet_o shall_v not_o be_v judge_v while_o they_o be_v dead_a but_o they_o shall_v be_v raise_v up_o and_o make_v alive_a and_o so_o be_v judge_v as_o therefore_o peter_n call_v they_o dead_a because_o so_o they_o be_v now_o and_o be_v when_o he_o write_v of_o they_o though_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v dead_a but_o alive_a when_o they_o shall_v be_v judge_v so_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n he_o call_v they_o dead_a to_o who_o the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v though_o when_o the_o gospel_n be_v preach_v unto_o they_o they_o be_v alive_a and_o not_o dead_a and_o in_o like_a manner_n he_o call_v they_o spirit_n in_o prison_n to_o who_o christ_n go_v and_o preach_v because_o so_o they_o be_v when_o he_o write_v though_o they_o be_v not_o so_o when_o christ_n go_v and_o preach_v unto_o they_o but_o bellarmine_n charge_v beza_n with_o be_v so_o bold_a as_o to_o change_v cit_fw-la the_o text_n because_o where_o they_o read_v the_o spirit_n that_o be_v in_o prison_n he_o read_v the_o spirit_n that_o be_v in_o prison_n but_o as_o beslarmine_n himself_o can_v not_o but_o confess_v in_o the_o original_a there_o be_v neither_o that_o be_v nor_o that_o be_v but_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d be_v as_o our_o translatour_n render_v they_o the_o spirit_n in_o prison_n so_o that_o either_o the_o word_n that_o be_v or_o that_o be_v may_v be_v understand_v as_o the_o sense_n will_v bear_v estius_n confess_v that_o some_o i_o suppose_v he_o mean_v some_o not_o loc_n protestant_n understand_v that_o be_v but_o he_o hold_v it_o better_a to_o understand_v that_o be_v as_o the_o verb_n be_v of_o the_o pretertense_n preach_v but_o this_o reason_n be_v of_o no_o moment_n for_o if_o because_o the_o word_n preach_v have_v reference_n to_o the_o time_n past_a therefore_o it_o must_v be_v mean_v of_o the_o spirit_n that_o be_v in_o prison_n when_o christ_n preach_v unto_o they_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n when_o it_o be_v say_v that_o christ_n shall_v judge_v both_o the_o quick_a and_o the_o dead_a because_o shall_v judge_v do_v respect_v the_o time_n to_o come_v therefore_o also_o it_o must_v be_v mean_v of_o those_o that_o shall_v be_v dead_a when_o christ_n shall_v judge_v they_o but_o this_o do_v not_o follow_v and_o so_o neither_o do_v the_o other_o and_o thus_o i_o hope_v it_o may_v appear_v that_o those_o word_n of_o peter_n make_v nothing_o for_o limbus_n patrum_fw-la the_o four_o and_o last_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o be_v allege_v by_o the_o marquesse_n be_v zach._n 9_o 11._o where_o the_o pit_n that_o be_v speak_v of_o he_o say_v can_v be_v the_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a nor_o the_o grave_a but_o what_o then_o must_v it_o therefore_o be_v limbus_n patrum_fw-la it_o do_v not_o follow_v for_o by_o the_o pit_n there_o may_v be_v something_o else_o mean_v then_o either_o the_o place_n of_o the_o damn_a or_o the_o grave_a or_o limbus_n patrum_fw-la viz._n the_o babylonish_n captivity_n as_o the_o rabbin_n upon_o the_o place_n expound_v it_o bellarmine_n cite_v calvin_n for_o this_o 11._o exposition_n say_v that_o it_o have_v no_o probability_n because_o immediate_o before_o there_o be_v a_o prophecy_n of_o christ_n rejoice_v great_o o_o daughter_n of_o zion_n behold_v thy_o king_n come_v unto_o thou_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o say_v he_o how_o shall_v ibid._n these_o thing_n cohere_v if_o the_o captivity_n of_o babylon_n be_v speak_v of_o i_o answer_v well_o enough_o the_o prophet_n have_v tell_v they_o of_o christ_n come_v unto_o they_o may_v well_o present_o after_o speak_v of_o their_o deliverance_n out_o of_o captivity_n as_o a_o great_a benefit_n which_o they_o have_v already_o obtain_v through_o christ_n in_o who_o all_o the_o promise_n be_v yea_o and_o in_o he_o amen_o 2_o cor._n 1._o 20._o and_o whereby_o they_o may_v be_v assure_v of_o far_o
luther_n work_n as_o have_v it_o so_o as_o campian_n allege_v and_o this_o be_v the_o more_o apparent_a in_o that_o dureus_n profess_o take_n upon_o he_o the_o defence_n of_o campian_n against_o dr._n whitaker_n never_o so_o much_o as_o take_v notice_n of_o that_o which_o the_o doctor_n say_v against_o campian_n for_o falsify_v the_o word_n of_o luther_n so_o far_o be_v he_o from_o know_v of_o that_o pretend_a edition_n anno_fw-la 1551._o which_o shall_v have_v it_o forsooth_o just_o so_o as_o campian_n quote_v it_o 9_o luther_n as_o the_o marquesse_n tell_v we_o affirm_v that_o christ_n be_v from_o all_o eternity_n even_o according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n for_o obj._n proof_n hereof_o only_a zuinglius_fw-la be_v cite_v but_o as_o i_o note_v before_o zuinglius_fw-la his_fw-la testimony_n be_v not_o sufficient_a answ_n to_o make_v good_a a_o charge_n against_o luther_n let_v luther_n word_n be_v produce_v and_o then_o it_o will_v appear_v that_o he_o be_v just_o charge_v 10._o he_o affirm_v say_v the_o marquesse_n that_o as_o christ_n die_v with_o obj._n great_a pain_n so_o he_o seem_v to_o have_v sustain_v pain_n in_o hell_n after_o death_n indeed_o i_o find_v such_o word_n in_o luther_n on_o plal._n 16._o and_o i_o acknowledge_v answ_n it_o to_o be_v a_o gross_a error_n so_o far_o be_o i_o from_o defend_v he_o in_o it_o ibid._n but_o withal_o this_o i_o find_v that_o luther_n be_v nothing_o confident_a in_o that_o particular_a for_o he_o add_v immediate_o that_o he_o will_v so_o understand_v the_o word_n of_o peter_n act._n 2._o 24._o until_o he_o be_v better_o inform_v 11._o that_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n suffer_v or_o else_o he_o be_v none_o of_o obj._n his_o christ_n this_o also_o bellarmine_n do_v object_n against_o luther_n and_o i_o confess_v answ_n that_o if_o the_o word_n divinity_n be_v strict_o and_o proper_o take_v presat_n the_o assertion_n be_v most_o erroneous_a but_o bellarmine_n 1._o probable_o be_v not_o ignorant_a that_o aquinas_n observe_v that_o because_o of_o the_o identity_n that_o be_v betwixt_o the_o divine_a nature_n and_o the_o divine_a person_n sometime_o the_o nature_n be_v put_v for_o the_o person_n and_o that_o thus_o austin_n say_v that_o the_o divine_a nature_n be_v conceive_v and_o bear_v because_o the_o person_n of_o the_o son_n be_v conceive_v and_o bear_v in_o respect_n of_o the_o humane_a nature_n so_o in_o like_a manner_n luther_n may_v say_v that_o the_o divinity_n or_o divine_a nature_n do_v suffer_v because_o the_o person_n of_o the_o son_n do_v suffer_v according_a to_o the_o humane_a nature_n that_o luther_n mean_v no_o otherwise_o then_o thus_o be_v clear_o his_o 195._o word_n which_o i_o find_v in_o gerhard_n viz._n these_o if_o i_o shall_v suffer_v myself_o to_o be_v persuade_v that_o only_o the_o humane_a nature_n do_v suffer_v for_o i_o true_o christ_n shall_v be_v a_o saviour_n of_o small_a worth_n unto_o i_o for_o he_o himself_o at_o length_n will_v need_v a_o saviour_n if_o perhaps_o that_o bewitch_a lady_n reason_n will_v reclaim_v say_v the_o divinity_n can_v suffer_v nor_o die_v thou_o shall_v answer_v that_o indeed_o be_v true_a yet_o nevertheless_o because_o the_o divinity_n and_o the_o humanity_n in_o christ_n make_v one_o person_n therefore_o the_o scripture_n because_o of_o the_o hypostatical_a union_n do_v attribute_n to_o the_o divinity_n all_o those_o thing_n which_o happen_v to_o the_o humanity_n and_o so_o to_o the_o humanity_n those_o thing_n which_o belong_v to_o the_o divinity_n and_o true_o thus_o it_o be_v indeed_o for_o we_o must_v needs_o confess_v this_o person_n christ_n be_v point_v at_o do_v suffer_v and_o die_v but_o this_o person_n be_v true_a god_n therefore_o it_o be_v right_o say_v the_o son_n of_o god_n do_v suffer_v for_o though_o one_o part_n of_o he_o as_o i_o may_v so_o speak_v viz._n the_o deity_n do_v not_o suffer_v yet_o that_o person_n which_o be_v god_n do_v suffer_v in_o his_o other_o part_n viz._n the_o humanity_n for_o indeed_o the_o son_n of_o god_n be_v crucify_v for_o we_o that_o same_o i_o say_v that_o same_o person_n be_v crucify_v ibid._n according_a to_o the_o humanity_n and_o again_o if_o our_o sin_n and_o god_n weath_n due_a to_o our_o sin_n be_v weigh_v in_o one_o scale_n and_o in_o the_o other_o scale_n be_v put_v only_o the_o death_n of_o humane_a nature_n or_o only_o a_o man_n have_v sufer_v for_o we_o then_o the_o other_o scale_n will_v weigh_v we_o down_o to_o hell_n but_o if_o in_o the_o opposite_a scale_n be_v put_v the_o passion_n of_o god_n the_o death_n of_o god_n the_o blood_n of_o god_n or_o god_n have_v suffer_v for_o we_o than_o that_o scale_n will_v be_v more_o heavy_a and_o ponderous_a than_o all_o our_o sin_n and_o all_o god_n anger_n this_o do_v abundant_o show_v that_o luther_n be_v most_o orthodox_n in_o this_o point_n touch_v christ_n person_n and_o nature_n and_o thus_o that_o also_o be_v answer_v which_o immediate_o follow_v be_v indeed_o but_o the_o same_o with_o that_o which_o go_v before_o viz._n that_o if_o the_o humane_a nature_n shall_v only_o suffer_v for_o he_o christ_n be_v but_o a_o saviour_n of_o vile_a account_n and_o have_v need_v himself_o of_o another_o saviour_n in_o what_o sense_n luther_n speak_v this_o and_o how_o sound_a and_o true_a it_o be_v in_o that_o sense_n wherein_o he_o speak_v it_o be_v evident_a by_o his_o own_o word_n before_o cite_v 12._o the_o marquesse_n cite_v hospinian_n say_v that_o luther_n obj._n hold_v the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n both_o be_v and_o may_v be_v find_v according_a to_o the_o substance_n not_o only_o in_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n of_o the_o eucharist_n or_o in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o faithful_a but_o also_o in_o all_o creature_n in_o fire_n water_n or_o in_o the_o rope_n and_o halter_n wherewith_o desperate_a person_n hang_v themselves_o whether_o hospinian_n write_v thus_o of_o luther_n not_o have_v his_o answ_n book_n which_o be_v cite_v i_o can_v say_v hospinian_n be_v though_o a_o protestant_n yet_o against_o luther_n in_o point_n of_o the_o sacrament_n may_v peradventure_o wrest_v luther_n word_n beyond_o his_o meaning_n however_o if_o luther_n do_v hold_v so_o i_o leave_v he_o to_o answer_v for_o himself_o or_o some_o other_o to_o answer_v for_o he_o i_o hold_v both_o he_o to_o have_v err_v in_o his_o consubstantiation_n and_o the_o romanist_n in_o their_o transubstantiation_n 13._o luther_n as_o be_v object_v aver_v that_o the_o ten_o commandment_n obj._n belong_v not_o unto_o we_o for_o god_n do_v not_o lead_v we_o but_o the_o jew_n forth_o of_o egypt_n that_o luther_n speak_v to_o this_o effect_n i_o grant_v yet_o be_v he_o far_o from_o teach_v that_o christian_n be_v free_a from_o the_o observation_n answ_n of_o the_o ten_o commandment_n for_o immediate_o after_o that_o which_o the_o marquesse_n sunt_fw-la cit_v he_o say_v thus_o false_o therefore_o do_v fanatical_a person_n burden_n we_o with_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n who_o speak_v nothing_o unto_o we_o indeed_o we_o receive_v and_o acknowledge_v moses_n as_o a_o teacher_n from_o who_o we_o learn_v much_o wholesome_a doctrine_n as_o shall_v be_v show_v a_o little_a after_o but_o we_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v he_o our_o lawgiver_n or_o governor_n see_v he_o restraine●_n his_o ministry_n to_o that_o people_n viz._n the_o jew_n not_o to_o have_v other_o god_n to_o fear_n god_n to_o trust_v in_o he_o and_o to_o obey_v he_o not_o to_o abuse_v his_o name_n to_o honour_v parent_n etc._n etc._n these_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v observe_v by_o all_o and_o belong_v to_o all_o yet_o not_o because_o they_o be_v command_v by_o moses_n but_o because_o these_o law_n which_o be_v rehearse_v in_o the_o decalogue_n be_v imprint_v in_o man_n nature_n wherefore_o also_o the_o heathen_n that_o know_v not_o moses_n and_o to_o who_o god_n do_v not_o speak_v as_o he_o do_v to_o the_o israelite_n know_v that_o god_n be_v to_o be_v obey_v and_o worship_v that_o parent_n be_v to_o be_v honour_v etc._n etc._n this_o doctrine_n of_o luther_n be_v no_o other_o than_o they_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v teach_v estius_n a_o great_a doctor_n of_o that_o church_n write_v upon_o 19_o those_o word_n gal._n 2._o 19_o i_o through_o the_o law_n be_o dead_a to_o the_o law_n say_v although_o the_o sense_n may_v seem_v more_o easy_a if_o it_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o law_n as_o it_o be_v ceremonial_a yet_o may_v the_o whole_a law_n give_v by_o moses_n be_v understand_v so_o far_o forth_o as_o it_o be_v give_v by_o moses_n for_o the_o whole_a legislative_a office_n of_o moses_n do_v cease_v by_o christ_n neither_o be_v a_o christian_n bind_v by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o decalogue_n but_o as_o it_o do_v agree_v with_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o be_v renew_v by_o christ_n so_o the_o
those_o other_o 39_o passage_n immediate_o before_o mention_v though_o there_o seem_v indeed_o some_o more_o colour_n for_o this_o allegation_n then_o for_o the_o other_o yet_o be_v there_o no_o just_a ground_n for_o this_o neither_o 11._o the_o next_o charge_n against_o calvin_n be_v that_o he_o say_v that_o obj._n christ_n manifest_v his_o own_o effeminateness_n by_o his_o shun_v of_o death_n this_o also_o be_v of_o like_a nature_n with_o the_o former_a calvin_n write_v answ_n upon_o those_o word_n joh._n 12._o 27._o now_o be_v my_o soul_n trouble_v etc._n etc._n say_v that_o 27._o this_o do_v seem_v to_o differ_v much_o from_o that_o which_o be_v next_o before_o for_o that_o there_o christ_n show_v great_a courage_n exhort_v his_o disciple_n not_o only_o to_o suffer_v death_n but_o to_o suffer_v it_o willing_o and_o defirous_o if_o the_o case_n so_o require_v but_o now_o by_o shun_v death_n he_o confess_v his_o weakness_n or_o softness_n of_o spirit_n then_o he_o add_v by_o way_n of_o answer_n that_o yet_o here_o be_v nothing_o which_o do_v not_o very_o well_o agree_v that_o it_o be_v expedient_a and_o necessary_a for_o our_o salvation_n that_o the_o son_n of_o god_n shall_v be_v so_o affect_v and_o that_o hence_o we_o be_v to_o know_v that_o christ_n death_n be_v no_o sport_n or_o play_v unto_o he_o etc._n etc._n so_o then_o the_o word_n mollity_n which_o the_o marquesse_n render_v effeminateness_n and_o not_o unfit_o i_o confess_v for_o it_o proper_o signify_v softness_n and_o be_v use_v for_o softness_n of_o spirit_n that_o word_n i_o say_v be_v here_o apply_v to_o christ_n in_o a_o way_n of_o effeminateness_n objection_n though_o calvin_n do_v positive_o aver_v that_o christ_n be_v deep_o affect_v with_o the_o horror_n of_o his_o approach_a death_n and_o that_o he_o be_v so_o indeed_o be_v most_o evident_a both_o by_o this_o and_o other_o place_n of_o the_o evangelical_n history_n 12._o the_o marquesse_n add_v he_o say_v that_o thief_n and_o malefactor_n hasten_v to_o death_n with_o obstinate_a resolution_n despise_v it_o with_o obj._n haughty_a courage_n other_o mild_o suffer_v it_o but_o what_o constancy_n courage_n or_o stoutness_n be_v there_o in_o the_o son_n of_o god_n who_o be_v astonish_v and_o in_o a_o manner_n strike_v dead_a with_o fear_n of_o death_n how_o shameful_a a_o tenderness_n be_v it_o to_o be_v so_o far_o torment_v with_o fear_n of_o common_a death_n as_o to_o melt_v in_o bloody_a sweat_n and_o not_o be_v able_a to_o be_v comfort_v but_o by_o the_o sight_n of_o angel_n calvin_n dispute_v against_o those_o who_o will_v have_v it_o only_o a_o answ_n mere_a bodily_a death_n not_o have_v any_o curse_n 12._o and_o wrath_n of_o god_n annex_v to_o it_o which_o christ_n do_v fear_v but_o say_v he_o let_v the_o godly_a reader_n consider_v how_o honourable_a this_o be_v for_o christ_n to_o have_v be_v more_o effemivate_a and_o fainthearted_a then_o most_o ordinary_a man_n then_o follow_v the_o word_n object_v thief_n and_o other_o malefactor_n do_v hasten_v unto_o death_n with_o obstinate_a resolution_n etc._n etc._n the_o series_n of_o the_o discourse_n do_v plain_o show_v that_o calvin_n speak_v not_o positive_o but_o upon_o supposition_n that_o if_o it_o be_v so_o as_o some_o hold_n than_o all_o this_o will_v follow_v which_o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o assert_v that_o by_o the_o absurdity_n of_o it_o he_o prove_v the_o erroniousnesse_n of_o their_o opinion_n who_o he_o do_v confute_v 13._o the_o marquesse_n proceed_v in_o his_o charge_n against_o calvin_n say_v he_o say_v that_o the_o same_o vehemency_n take_v etc._n christ_n from_o the_o obj._n present_a memory_n of_o the_o heavenly_a decree_n so_o that_o he_o forget_v at_o that_o instant_n that_o he_o be_v send_v hither_o to_o be_v our_o redeemer_n this_o allegation_n i_o grant_v be_v true_a calvin_n on_o mat._n 26._o 39_o have_v these_o word_n indeed_o neither_o will_v i_o undertake_v the_o defence_n answ_n of_o all_o calvin_n expression_n or_o opinion_n i_o think_v it_o not_o so_o safe_a to_o ascribe_v forgetfulness_n unto_o christ_n though_o as_o calvin_n mean_v it_o i_o do_v not_o see_v that_o there_o be_v any_o impiety_n in_o it_o and_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d mar._n 14._o 33._o import_a horror_n and_o astonishment_n may_v seem_v to_o make_v for_o it_o however_o calvin_n be_v careful_a to_o inculcate_v 12._o this_o that_o he_o will_v have_v none_o to_o think_v that_o there_o be_v any_o turbulencie_n and_o disorder_n in_o christ_n affection_n as_o there_o be_v in_o we_o but_o only_o that_o christ_n be_v strike_v with_o fear_n and_o anxiety_n so_o far_o forth_o as_o the_o sound_n and_o entire_a nature_n of_o man_n can_v bear_v 14._o calvin_n be_v tax_v for_o say_v that_o christ_n prayer_n be_v not_o obj._n premeditate_v but_o the_o force_n and_o extremity_n of_o grief_n wringed_a from_o he_o this_o hasty_a speech_n to_o which_o a_o correction_n be_v present_o add_v and_o he_o chastise_v and_o recall_v that_o vow_n of_o he_o which_o he_o have_v let_v sudden_o slip_v i_o acknowledge_v that_o calvin_n have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o same_o answ_n place_n viz._n on_o mat._n 26._o 39_o neither_o do_v i_o much_o approve_v of_o they_o yet_o by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v already_o it_o may_v appear_v that_o calvin_n meaning_n be_v good_a only_o so_o to_o set_v forth_o the_o anxiety_n of_o christ_n soul_n as_o yet_o to_o exempt_v he_o from_o whatsoever_o be_v evil_a and_o sinful_a bellarmine_n himself_o though_o he_o rake_v up_o and_o rack_n calvin_n saying_n to_o 8._o make_v they_o odious_a yet_o confess_v that_o he_o say_v that_o christ_n nature_n be_v perfect_a and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o inordinacie_n of_o affection_n in_o he_o but_o i_o will_v make_v use_n of_o the_o word_n of_o learned_a dr._n field_n who_o have_v answer_v these_o objection_n against_o calvin_n long_o ago_o the_o papist_n say_v he_o impute_v i_o know_v not_o what_o blasphemy_n to_o calvin_n for_o that_o he_o say_v christ_n correct_v the_o desire_n and_o wish_v that_o 18._o sudden_o come_v from_o he_o but_o they_o may_v easy_o understand_v if_o they_o please_v that_o he_o be_v far_o from_o think_v that_o any_o desire_n or_o express_v of_o desire_n be_v sudden_a in_o christ_n as_o rise_v in_o he_o without_o consent_n of_o reason_n or_o that_o he_o be_v inconsiderate_a in_o any_o thing_n he_o do_v or_o speak_v but_o his_o meaning_n be_v that_o some_o desire_n which_o he_o express_v proceed_v from_o inferior_a reason_n that_o consider_v not_o all_o circumstance_n and_o that_o he_o correct_v and_o revoke_v the_o same_o not_o as_o evil_a but_o as_o not_o proceed_v from_o the_o full_a and_o perfect_a consideration_n of_o all_o thing_n fit_a to_o be_v think_v upon_o before_o a_o full_a resolution_n be_v pass_v another_o learned_a man_n also_o say_v that_o calvin_n infer_v call_v those_o word_n nevertheless_o not_o as_o i_o will_v but_o as_o thou_o will_v a_o correction_n in_o that_o sense_n as_o rhetorician_n be_v wont_a to_o use_v the_o figure_n so_o call_v not_o as_o if_o he_o do_v amend_v that_o which_o be_v ill_o speak_v but_o seasonable_o to_o add_v that_o which_o yet_o be_v not_o speak_v and_o he_o cite_v origen_n say_v that_o christ_n do_v in_o those_o word_n recall_v his_o desire_n and_o as_o it_o be_v recogitate_v so_o likewise_o he_o cite_v hierome_n and_o the_o interlineary_a 39_o gloss_n say_v that_o christ_n do_v return_v into_o himself_o hierome_n do_v yet_o further_o paraphrase_n thus_o he_o say_v let_v not_o that_o be_v which_o i_o speak_v with_o a_o humane_a affection_n 39_o but_o that_o for_o which_o by_o thy_o will_n i_o descend_v to_o the_o earth_n the_o jesuit_n maldonate_fw-it sai_z that_o christ_n leave_v the_o humane_a nature_n to_o act_v its_o part_n as_o it_o will_v have_v do_v if_o it_o have_v not_o be_v join_v with_o the_o divine_a nature_n nor_o have_v know_v any_o thing_n of_o god_n decree_n so_o he_o write_v upon_o those_o word_n father_n if_o it_o be_v possible_a etc._n etc._n and_o upon_o those_o nevertheless_o not_o as_o i_o will_v etc._n etc._n he_o say_v a_o moderation_n be_v fit_o add_v for_o he_o so_o show_v the_o infirmity_n of_o nature_n that_o yet_o he_o do_v not_o exceed_v the_o bound_n of_o god_n will_n that_o which_o maldonate_fw-it here_o call_v a_o moderation_n and_o hierome_n call_v a_o return_v into_o himself_o and_o origen_n and_o the_o gloss_n call_v a_o recall_v of_o the_o desire_n and_o a_o recogitate_v be_v as_o much_o as_o that_o which_o calvin_n call_v a_o correction_n 15._o but_o the_o marquesse_n proceed_v and_o charge_v calvin_n with_o obj._n these_o word_n thus_o we_o see_v christ_n to_o be_v on_o all_o side_n so_o vex_v as_o be_v over_o whelm_v with_o desperation_n he_o cease_v to_o call_v upon_o god_n which_o be_v as_o
he_o be_v above_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o minutius_n and_o gregory_n who_o be_v about_o as_o much_o after_o paulinus_n be_v against_o the_o worship_v of_o any_o thing_n make_v with_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o word_n before_o cite_v final_o say_v the_o marquesse_n the_o church_n then_o hold_v that_o to_o the_o catholic_n church_n only_a belong_v the_o keep_n of_o the_o apostolical_a tradition_n 101._o the_o authority_n of_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o the_o decision_n of_o controversy_n of_o faith_n and_o that_o out_o of_o the_o succession_n of_o her_o communion_n of_o her_o doctrine_n and_o her_o ministry_n there_o neither_o be_v church_n nor_o salvation_n 1._o for_o apostolical_a tradition_n enough_o have_v be_v say_v before_o 2._o and_o so_o also_o of_o interpretation_n of_o scripture_n and_o answ_n decision_n of_o controversy_n of_o faith_n 3._o i_o understand_v not_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o object_v against_o we_o that_o out_o of_o the_o catholic_n church_n there_o be_v no_o church_n for_o the_o catholic_n church_n be_v the_o church_n universal_a and_o so_o comprehend_v all_o particular_a church_n as_o part_n and_o member_n of_o it_o who_o can_v doubt_v that_o there_o be_v no_o church_n out_o of_o the_o church_n catholic_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o once_o indeed_o be_v a_o sound_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n but_o the_o catholic_n church_n it_o never_o be_v nor_o can_v be_v except_o a_o part_n can_v be_v the_o whole_a in_o that_o which_o follow_v page_n 101._o etc._n etc._n there_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o same_o matter_n as_o before_o only_o the_o form_n be_v somewhat_o alter_v and_o therefore_o there_o be_v no_o need_n that_o i_o shall_v trouble_v either_o myself_o or_o the_o reader_n any_o further_a about_o it_o only_o i_o shall_v add_v one_o or_o two_o animadversion_n 1._o whereas_o it_o be_v object_v page_n 105._o etc._n etc._n that_o luther_n after_o his_o desert_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v yet_o hold_v some_o point_n of_o popery_n and_o so_o also_o husse_v and_o wickliff_n and_o other_o that_o otherwise_o oppose_v themselves_o against_o the_o error_n and_o corruption_n of_o that_o church_n i_o answer_v that_o as_o rome_n be_v not_o build_v at_o once_o so_o neither_o be_v it_o demolish_v at_o once_o but_o by_o degree_n it_o be_v no_o marvel_n therefore_o if_o those_o worthy_a man_n do_v at_o least_o for_o a_o while_n retain_v some_o romish_a opinion_n and_o practice_n after_o that_o in_o many_o thing_n they_o have_v discover_v the_o truth_n and_o stand_v up_o in_o defence_n of_o it_o 2._o whereas_o it_o be_v pretend_v page_n 106._o that_o before_o berengarius_fw-la who_o be_v above_o 1000_o year_n after_o christ_n none_o do_v oppose_v that_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o the_o romanist_n maintain_v beside_o that_o i_o have_v sufficient_o confute_v this_o before_o the_o marquesse_n may_v have_v see_v from_o bellarmine_n himself_o that_o there_o be_v eccles_n some_o who_o above_o 200._o year_n before_o berengarius_fw-la do_v oppose_v that_o doctrine_n which_o in_o this_o particular_a the_o church_n of_o rome_n now_o do_v hold_v namely_o bertram_n a_o presbyter_n who_o be_v about_o 800._o year_n after_o christ_n and_o say_v bellarmine_n be_v one_o of_o the_o first_o that_o do_v call_v in_o question_n that_o doctrine_n but_o bellarmine_n do_v too_o much_o mince_v the_o matter_n for_o bertram_n do_v more_o than_o call_v in_o question_n that_o real_a presence_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o the_o romanist_n do_v hold_v he_o do_v plain_o assert_v that_o which_o protestant_n maintain_v viz._n that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n do_v still_o remain_v after_o consecration_n as_o be_v to_o be_v see_v in_o hospinian_o first_o part_n of_o the_o sacramentary_a history_n and_o so_o in_o other_o that_o cite_v that_o author_n for_o the_o book_n itself_o i_o confess_v i_o have_v not_o see_v that_o i_o do_v remember_v but_o that_o be_v here_o worthy_a to_o be_v observe_v which_o the_o romish_a censurer_n of_o book_n say_v speak_v of_o this_o book_n of_o bertram_n about_o the_o sacrament_n although_o say_v 12._o they_o we_o do_v not_o much_o value_n this_o book_n nor_o shall_v great_o ear_n if_o it_o be_v no_o where_o to_o be_v find_v yet_o see_v it_o have_v be_v often_o print_v and_o read_v of_o very_a many_o etc._n etc._n and_o we_o sufer_v very_o many_o error_n in_o other_o ancient_a catholic_n we_o extenuate_v they_o we_o excuse_v they_o and_o find_v out_o some_o device_n we_o often_o deny_v they_o and_o fain_o some_o good_a sense_n of_o they_o when_o they_o be_v oppose_v in_o disputation_n or_o conflict_n with_o the_o adversary_n we_o see_v not_o why_o bertram_n may_v not_o deserve_v the_o same_o favour_n and_o diligent_a recognition_n lest_o heretic_n prate_v against_o we_o and_o say_v that_o we_o burn_v antiquity_n and_o prohibit_v it_o when_o it_o make_v for_o they_o some_o thing_n therefore_o in_o bertram_n 17._o book_n they_o will_v have_v to_o be_v quite_o leave_v out_o and_o some_o thing_n to_o be_v quite_o alter_v as_o namely_o for_o visible_o to_o be_v read_v invisible_o such_o device_n have_v they_o of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o corrupt_v ancient_a writer_n when_o they_o make_v against_o they_o and_o then_o they_o pretend_v that_o all_o be_v for_o they_o thus_o the_o marquesse_n in_o the_o conclusion_n of_o his_o reply_n page_n 230._o pretend_v that_o they_o have_v the_o prescription_n of_o 1600._o year_n possession_n and_o continuance_n of_o their_o church_n doctrine_n and_o evidence_n out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o father_n witness_v to_o that_o evidence_n and_o the_o decree_n of_o counsel_n and_o protestant_n own_v acknowlegdement_n but_o what_o ground_n there_o be_v for_o this_o pretence_n let_v the_o reader_n judge_v by_o compare_v and_o consider_v what_o be_v say_v on_o both_o side_n and_o so_o i_o also_o shall_v leave_v the_o success_n of_o my_o labour_n unto_o god_n in_o who_o hand_n be_v the_o heart_n of_o all_o a_o addition_n of_o some_o few_o thing_n omit_v in_o the_o foregoing_a rejoinder_n the_o marquesse_n pag._n 69._o cit_v basil_n orat_fw-la in_o 40_o it_o be_v misprint_v 44_o mart._n as_o affirm_v that_o we_o may_v pray_v unto_o the_o saint_n depart_v but_o in_o that_o oration_n basil_n affirm_v no_o such_o thing_n he_o show_v indeed_o his_o approbation_n of_o pray_v not_o martyr_n unto_o the_o martyr_n but_o which_o be_v quite_o another_o thing_n to_o god_n at_o the_o monument_n of_o the_o martyr_n the_o most_o learned_a b._n usher_n observe_v that_o the_o memory_n of_o the_o martyr_n indeed_o be_v from_o the_o very_a beginning_n have_v in_o great_a reverence_n and_o at_o their_o memorial_n and_o martyria_fw-la 434._o that_o be_v to_o say_v at_o the_o place_n wherein_o their_o body_n be_v lay_v which_o be_v the_o church_n whereunto_o the_o christian_n do_v in_o those_o time_n usual_o resort_v prayer_n be_v ordinary_o offer_v up_o unto_o god_n for_o who_o cause_n they_o lay_v down_o their_o life_n but_o this_o be_v no_o argument_n that_o they_o then_o pray_v to_o the_o martyr_n though_o that_o error_n may_v take_v occasion_n afterward_o to_o creep_v in_o by_o this_o mean_n the_o marquesse_n tax_v calvin_n for_o hold_v that_o christ_n soul_n be_v subject_a to_o ignorance_n to_o what_o i_o have_v already_o say_v in_o answer_n to_o this_o charge_n i_o add_v that_o in_o this_o particular_a fulgentius_n be_v of_o the_o same_o mind_n with_o calvin_n for_o confute_v those_o that_o hold_v 1._o christ_n to_o have_v no_o humane_a soul_n he_o say_v thus_o if_o we_o must_v believe_v that_o the_o humane_a nature_n in_o christ_n want_v a_o soul_n what_o be_v it_o that_o in_o christ_n be_v a_o infant_n be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v know_v good_a and_o evil_a then_o he_o cite_v isa_n 7._o 16._o expound_v it_o of_o christ_n and_o add_v therefore_o the_o humane_a soul_n which_o be_v natural_o make_v capable_a of_o reason_n in_o christ_n be_v a_o infant_n be_v say_v not_o to_o have_v know_v good_a and_o evil_a which_o according_a to_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n in_o christ_n be_v a_o child_n be_v relate_v to_o have_v increase_v in_o wisdom_n etc._n etc._n to_o that_o also_o that_o have_v be_v say_v before_o concern_v calvin_n death_n let_v this_o be_v add_v how_o far_o calvin_n be_v from_o despair_v at_o his_o death_n as_o the_o marquesse_n do_v object_n may_v appear_v by_o what_o he_o write_v to_o his_o dear_a friend_n farel_n when_o he_o look_v for_o death_n every_o moment_n i_o hardly_o breath_n say_v he_o and_o expect_v continual_o 344._o that_o breath_n shall_v fail_v i_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o i_o live_v and_o die_v to_o christ_n who_o to_o those_o that_o be_v he_o be_v both_o