that deny that to be any parte of his mynd but say he reproueth mannes malicious blasphemy and manifest impietie The argument which ye gather of the nynthe chapter of the same book and wold seme to confirm by the wordes of Christe spoken in the seuenth of Mathew hath no greater force then the former for the writer defineth not what God had determined in his secrete and eternall counsell but what he hath expressedly coÌ„mitted to mannes charge by his law and by his holie Spirit speaking in his Prophetes and that him self doeth plainly witnesse For after that he hath asked wisdom righteously to iudge the people committed to his charge he thus speaketh what man is he that knoweth the counsell of God or that can comprehend in his mynd what God wold The cogitations of mortall men are fearefull and our opinions deceauable c. scarsly by coÌ„iecture can we attein to the thiÌ„gs that be in earth and w t trauale fynd we those things w t be amoÌ„gest our haÌ„des But who shal searche oute those thiÌ„gs y t be in the heaueÌ„s and who knoweth they couÌ„sell except that thow shall giue wisdom and from the hiest places shall send thy holie Spirit for so the wayes of those that dwell vpon earth haue bene directed and they haue learned those things that haue pleased the. Cry now as pleaseth you that because man was made lord ouer creatures in earth for that is the veritie of the text to reule the world in holynes That therefor there was no man reprobated and he writer will answer for him self and will affirme that he searcheth not what God hath determined in his eternall counsell and what shall become of euerie man for that confesseth he to be incomprehensible but he declareth what God commandeth in his law and what he hath expressed by his holie Prophetes To the which if man be found inobedient resteth no excusation seing that gods will is manifestly declared as Moises saieth in these wordes The secretes appertein to the Eternall our God but those things that be reueled appertein to vs and to our children for euer that we may do all the wordes of this law Your argumentes which ye think most strong gathered of these wordes in the 7. aÌ„d 12. of Mathew are most weak and vaine For as we do not denie that man was created iust so do we coÌ„stantly affirme that in iustice he stood not but became altogether vniust and therefor God did not condemne man before he was giltie as you falsly gather of our doctrine Wonder it is that ye se not degrees and iust causes which com betwext the purpose of reprobation and the iust condemnation of man This is your argument God purposed to reiect man before he was created Ergò he did damne him before he was criminall or glitie Your consequent is fals far no part of gods iudgements was put in execution before man did sinne for grace was offered to AdaÌ„ after his fall Cayn was admonished aÌ„d rebuked of his crueltie his posterities aÌ„d sede had raged in their furie and finally all flesh had corrupted their waies befor that gods vengeance and most iust iudgement were poured furth and put in execution against the rebellious and vnthankfull world If you be able to proue that the sentence of death was executed vpon Adam before he offended or that Cayn was accursed by gods mouth before he had murthered then hath your argumeÌ„t som apperance but if the iust causes of condemnation be found in man and so founde in man that God in vowies can thereof be accused then oght you to be ashamed to burden vs with that which ye your selues most folishly collecte And further ye shall vnderstand that as the Apostle putteth certen degrees and causes which are sensible vnto vs betwext the eternall election of gods childreÌ„ aÌ„d their glorification euen so put we the contrarie degrees and causes betwext the reprobation and the iust condemnation of the wicked for as those whom God hath chosen before all tymes in time he calleth aÌ„d that of purpose to Christe Iesus his soÌ„ne aÌ„d whoÌ„ thus he calleth he iustifieth and that more and more vntill that flesh and the corrupt affectioÌ„s thereof being mortified they attein to their glorie So by the contrarie be the reprobate either left all together in blindnes neuer called to the light and knowledge of gods fre mercie or if they be called they either do condeÌ„ne it orels sodanly fall from the same and so abiding in their corruption do still heap sinne vpon sinne till at the last their measure being full God executeth this most iust iudgements against their continuall rebellion Inferre now as many absurdities as please you vpon our doctrine you procede THE ADVERSARIE You say that God reprobated and ordeined man to damnation the most parte of the world afore the foundatioÌ„s of the world were laid and yet in the creation God made all meÌ„ after his own image good and righteous as the scripture witnesseth for as we were all created in one man that is Adam So were we all created in one estate that is after the image of God to lief then if your opinion be true the ordinaÌ„ce of God in his election afore the world is not coÌ„forme to his ordinance in the creation And the hâ—lie Gost saieth If I buyld vp agane that which I haue cast doune before I declare my self to be a transgressor if God created man to his own image vnto lief whom before the creatioÌ„ he had reprobat aÌ„d cast away declareth he not thereby him self to be inconstant and a traÌ„sgressour Ye can not escaip here with your bare solutioÌ„ where ye say afore the world God hath not ordeined all but som vnto damnation for in our creation all were ordeined vnto lief for so much as we were all created after the image of God of the ordinance of God in our electioÌ„ afore the world The Apostle writeth thus we be blessed saieth he with al maner of spirituall blessinges in heauenlie thinges by Christe according as he hath chosen vs in him before the foundations of the world were laid that we should walk in theÌ„ Here do we learn that gods ordinance in his electioÌ„ afore the world and also his ordinance in the creation is alwaies one For as we are chosen in Christe Iesu so we are created in Christe Iesu and as we are chosen to be holie and without blame so are we created vnto good workes Wherefor gods ordinaÌ„ce in his holie electioÌ„ and his mightie creatioÌ„ is one aÌ„d of like streÌ„gth and surenes further seing we be as the Apostle saieth bothe elect and created in Christe Iesu. and forasmuche as there is no damnation to them that are in Christe Iesu then is there no damnation either in the election or creation ANSWERE Because that aswell your forged lies as the vanitie of your reasons haue ben declared I will not trooble the reader with repetition of the
same And will also touche the rest of these your argumentes so briefly as I can Where ye reason that we were all created in one mā that is in Adam So were we all created in one estate c. If ye vnderstād that we were all created in one estate that is in that estate which shortly was to change becaus that God had so determined in his eternal counsell that by the fall of one his infinite mercie towardes his chosen ād seuere iudgement towardes the vessels of wraith should euidently appere in the tyme appointed by his wisdom If this I say you vnderstand that we were all created in one estate I will not contend with you Albeit in verey dede in that self same masse there were at once vessels of mercy ād vessels of wraith But because ye open yo ◠minde in the cōtrarie part saing That we were created in Adam after the image of God to lief I am compelled vtterly to dissent from you and fear not to affirme that becaus none did stand to the end in that image but all fell euē to death in Adam that therefor neither in Adam neither yet in that image as Adam had it was any created vnto lief but in Christ Iesus were all the chosen predestinate to lief euerlasting euen before that euer Adam was created as the Apostle plainely doeth witnes Where ye go about to proue by our opinion the ordinance of God in his election before the world not to be conforme to his ordinance in the creation and so consequently God to be a transgressor and inconstant ye declare your self not onely ignorāt vaine and foolishe but also irreuerent and blasphemous against gods maiestie for ye so far as in you lieth spoile him of his Godhead making him to chāge his counsell purpose and ordinance euen so oft as the creatures do chāge where we by the cōtrarie labour to explane ād not to escaip any violēce of your dartes by a bare solution as ye alledge but by the plaine scriptures openly we do affirme that as our God is eternall incomprehensible and immutable so are his counsels constant subiect to no immutabilitie nor change cōstant I say in God him self how so euer thinges change to our apprehensiō And therefor we say that neither in his election before the world neither in his creation of man to his own image and similitude was it his eternall coūsell purpose nor ordināce that all the posteritie of Adam should be saued And so can ye not proue that God destroyed any thing which he had builded Albeit to note one thing by the way Paule wold not haue bene so bold as to haue made him self check mate with God he did not I say accuse God of inconstancie neither did he appoint him to be a transgressor althogh he builded the ceremonies vnder the Law and destroied them againe But to our purpose 〈◊〉 I say destroied nothing which he had builded True it is that man destroied that image which God had builded but that building of God was but temporall and for a tyme onely but the perfect building of his churche was in Christe Iesus builded before the foundations of the world were laid which building God neuer destroied nor shall destroy but shall cōsummate the work to the praise of his holie name To him be glory In your hole reasoning of the wordes of the Apostle you do erre in this point as before I haue noted that ye make cōmon to all that which y e holie Gost maketh peculiare to gods elect for ye must first proue all to be saintes by vocation all to be blessed with spirituall benediction and to haue obeyed and all to be builded vpon the foundatiō of the Prophetes ād Apostles before y t ye be able to proue that all were elected and predestinate in Christ Iesus before all tymes That we are created in Christe Iesus vnto good workes is not to be referred as ye think to the common creation of all men in Adam but to the new and spirituall regeneration which gods children haue in Christ Iesus for the which Dauid did pray saying a cleā heart creat in me ô God which is no lesse called the creation of God then was the first creation of man for as man in his creation neither wroght neither yet could deserue to be created so honorable as he was but did suffer the power of God to worke euen as it pleased his wisdom to perfourm the work So in our new creation vnto good workes the onely grace and power of God worketh not onely the beginning but also bringeth to perfection so that what so euer be good holie or iust in vs is gods creation and not our worke God open your eies that ye may se that neither in Adam neither yet in our selues were we created to good workes but in Christe Iesus alone And then I think ye will not so much boast of your fre will Your last as after ye do reason is a plain Paralogisme that is a Sophisticall and fals argument for it stādeth on foure termes against the vse of all good and solide reasoning For thus ye procede Saing we be elect and created in Christe Iesus and seing there is no condemnation to them that be in Christe Iesus then is there no damnation neither in the election nor creation Here be plainely foure termes for in your Maior that is in the first part of your argument ye say not we were elected and created in our election and in our creation but we were elected ād created in Christ Iesus The secōd propositiō is most trew to witt that there is no condēnation to them that be in Christe Iesus to such as walk not after the fleshe but what can ye conclude hereof that no damnation say you is in election nor in creation I say your conclusion is fals and vaine for you chāge your termes putting in the last part these two wordes Election and creation where ye oght to haue rehearesed these wordes Christ Iesus for thus you may well procede we be elected ād created to good workes in Christ Iesus but to them saieth the Apostle that be in Christ Iesus there is no cōdemnation Ergo to such as be elected and newly created in Christe Iesus there is no damnation This argument is formall and true but omitting your foolishnes which oftener I am compelled to shew then gladly I wold I go forward with your wordes THE ADVERSARIE If God reprobated man afore the foundation of the world then God reprobated man before he offended And if God reprobated and damned man afore be offended then is death the reward of gods ordināce afore the world ād not the reward of sinne But the Apostle teacheth vs that by sinne death entred into the world and also that death is the reward of sinne I pray you doeth either gods lawe or mannes law condemne any man afore he hath offended I am certen ye are not able to
proue it to be sothen oght you to be ashamed to burden God with such vnrighteous iudgement Doeth not God rather forgiue the offence alredie committed Let him be your God which condemneth the innocent afore he offend But he shall be my God which perdoneth and forgiueth the offence alreadie committed which in his verie wraithe doeth think vpon mercie And so with Iob will I conclude The great God casteth away no man ANSWER How ignorantly and how impudently ye confounde the eternall purpose of gods reprobation with the iust execution of his iudgementes I haue before declared and therefor here onely resteth to admonishe the reader that most vniustly ye accuse vs in that ye say that we hold and teache that God damned man before he offended This you be neuer able to shew in any of our workes for constantly in worde and writing we affirme that man willingly fell from God and made him self slaue to sathan before that death was inflicted vpon him and so neither make we death the reward of gods ordinance neither do we burden him with vnrighteous iudgement But say with the Apostle that death is the reward of sinne and that our God is righteous in all his workes and therefor be ashamed and repēt your manifest lie That God forgiueth the sin committed and doeth remēber mercie euen when he appereth in his hote displeasure to punishe his Churche with thankes giuing and ioy we acknowledge But that thereof ye cōclud ▪ as ye say w t Iob that the great God casteth away no man we can not cease to admonishe bothe you and the readers that either ignorantly orels maliciously ye corrupt and depraue the minde of the speaker in that place Elihu saieth not as ye alledge The great God casteth away no mā but saieth Behold the mightie God casteth away none that is mightie and valiant of courage He main teneth not the wicked but he giueth iudgemēt to the afflicted And in this behalf your master Castalio who notwithstanding that he vseth to take large libertie in translation where any thing may seme to serue his purpose is more circumspect and more faithfull then you be for thus he translateth that place Althogh that God be excellent yea excellent and strong of courage yet is he not so dissolute y t either he will kepe y e wicked or denie iudgemēt to the poore Althogh I say y t here is a greater libertie thē I wold wish a faithfull translater to vse yet hath he not so corrupted y e sense as ye haue done Elihu reasonīg against Iob affirmeth that albeit y e power of God be infinit yet cā not his workes be vniust but that they are wroght in all perfectiō of iustice how beit that often as we be dull and blinde we do not vnderstand nor se at the first the causes of the same yet God giueth daily declaration of his iustice in that the preserueth and somtyme exalteth the verteouse that before were afflicted and deiecteth from honors the wicked and the cruell oppressors Be iudge your self what this serueth for your purpose THE ADVERSARIE Some other be that grant that sinne was à cause why man is reprobate and there with they hold that gods absolute ordinance is also the caus this saing conteineth cōtradiction in it self for if it be gods absolut ordinance then is it not in respect of any other thing but as they say because it hath so pleased him if they ment that gods ordinance is the cause why sinners suffer death or that God ordeined that sinners for their sinne should suffer death I could agre with them but that were contrary to that which they haue said that God absolutly ordeined any man afore he was yea afore the world to death because so it pleased him for if death be the reward of sinne and for offence and sinne we do die then cometh not death by gods absolute ordinance And if I do grant that both gods absolute ordinance and also sinne are the causes of damnation after your meanyng marke well what inconuenience foloweth thereof first ye must grant me that gods ordinance is the principall and chefest cause for it can not be inferior to any other cause secōdly ye will grant that the first or principale cause called Causa Causae is the cause of the secōd ād inferior cause called cause causate so to cōclude gods ordināce which is Causa causae shal be the cause of sinne which is Causa causata As for a familiar exemple the heate of the son and the dew cause the grounde to be frutefull and God also is the cause thereof for he maketh the barren ground frutefull but forasmuch as God is the principall and first cause he must be also the cause of the same which is but the second cause Thus it is clerely proued that if gods ordināce were the cause of reprobation then gods ordinance should also be the cause of sinne and God should be autor of euill contrarie to the hole scripture contrarie to the opinion of all godlie men and contrarie to our faith But forasmuch as God willing I intend to answer at length to this wicked opinion in the confutation of the third error I will speak no more hereof in this place ANSWER No further answer nedeth to be giuen to these your most vniust accusatiōs then those which we before haue giuen for neither do we so vnreuerētly speake nor write neither yet do we vnderstād nor affirme that gods absolute ordinance is the principall cause of reprobation of sinne and of damnation but simplie we do teache that God in his etternall counsell for the manifestation of his own glorie hath of one maste chosen vessels of honor whom before all tymes he hath geuē vnto Christe Iesus that they in him should receiue lief And of the same masse he hath left others in that corruption in the which they were to fall and so were they prepared to destruction The cause why the one were elected we confesse and knowledge not to be in mā but to be the fre grace and the fre mercie shewed and frely giuen to vs in Christe Iesus who onely is appoīted head to giue life to the bodie Why the others were reiected we affirme the cause to be most iust but yet secrete ād hid frome vs reserued in his eternall wisdome to be reueled at the glorious comming of the Lord Iesus This one thing do we compelled by your blasphemous accusations repete oftener then we wold to the end that indifferent men may se what doctrine it is which you so maliciously impugne How so euer ye ioyn gods absolute ordinance and sinne togither we make so far diuision betwext the purpose and eternall counsell of God for absolute ordinance we vse not in that mater and the sinne of mā that we plainely affirme that mā when he sinned did neither looke to gods will gods counsell nor eternall purpose but did altogither consent to the will of
And in what estate did I leaue you Trie and examin your selues in what estate ye do yet stand you can not be vnsensible you can not be so ignorant but ye must know whether that Christ dwelleth in you or no. If you will acknowledge and coÌ„â—es that Christ dwelleth in you then must ye nedes confes that I am an Apostle For by my labors and preaching did you receaue Christ Iesus And if to deface my labors and to defraud me of that honor which God of his mercie hath giueÌ„ vnto me ye list deny that ether ye receaued Christ Iesus ether yet that he remaineth in you then do ye confes your selues reprobates Paule doth not absolutely define that they were reprobates but putteth in to their choise whether they wold confes that Christ Iesus did remaine in them by faith which they had receaued by the preaching of Paule and so wold admitt him to be an Apostle or to grante that they had nothing to do with Christ and so to confes them selues reprobates Now let the indifferent reader iudge whether that ether faithfully ye cyte the text ether that righteously ye conclude vpon the same The Apostle saieth not except that Christ dwell in you yow are reprobates but saieth as before I haue alledged do ye not know your selues that Christ Iesus is in you except that in som what ye be reprobates And albeit that the wordes were such as ye recite how can you therof conclude Dauid and Adam were reprobates when they sinned seing that Paule in that place maketh mencion of no other sinne except of the denial of Christ to remain in them of their ingratitude towardes him whom God had appointed preacher vnto them and of giuing eare credite to fals Apostles sclaÌ„derers of Christes true messingers â–ª how iustly I might turn Paules wordes vpoÌ„ your heades you easely may espie but all such reasoning I do from my heart abhorre If ye can be able to proue that Adam refused the grace offered or that Dauid did storme against Nathan ether affirming or suspecting him to be a fals prophete then had your argument som probabilitie for onely of such and to suche speaketh the Apostle in that place Thus doth â—ther your ignorance or malice wresting the scriptures against their natiue sense compell me to trouble the reader muche more then I wold if any sinceritie were found in you We do constantly affirme that by the sinne of one man did death enter in to the world for Adam did not onely lose him self but also did with him self wrap all his posteritie in sin death and damnation so that Adam and all his sonnes were in him lost But thereof it doth not follow as ye affirme that therefor they were out of the election from the transgression vnto the promes for as before we haue plainely proued they were elected in Christ Iesus before the foundacioÌ„s of y â— world were laied in whom they did stand elected and beloued euen wheÌ„ they fell in AdaÌ„ at which time y e electioÌ„ which from all eternitie was kept in the counsell of God began to be notified and manifested to mannes knowledge The fall and sinne of man was the way and meanes by the which gods election did appere but was not the cause why that it was destroied And so if with reuereÌ„ce ye coulde consider the mysterie of our redemption in Christ Iesus ye shoulde plainely se that it behoued all to die in Adam that the elect might receaue life in Christ Iesus alone The wordes of Christ Iesus our master rehearsed by the Euangelist S. Iohn ye do shamefully abuse for in that place he intreateth not whether a sinner duriÌ„g the time of his blindnes and sinne is appointed to damnation or not nether yet whether such as before haue had knowledge as Adam and Dauid had be altogether void of faith by reason of sinne after committed None of these two poiâ—tes I say doth our Master in that place intreat But vnto Nichodemus he plainely declareth that the cause of life is faith and the cause of condemnation is incredulitie and vnbe leif Not that Christ Iesus affirmeth that euerie man that is vnfaithfull at any tyme is or shal be condemned for God hath wrapped all vnder vnbelief y t he may haue mercie vpoÌ„ all as S. Paul confesseth him self to haue bene a persecuter and vnfaithfull But the true meaning of Christ is y t such as dispyse y e light offered remaine invnbelief to y e eÌ„d haue their condemnation alredie appointed as contrary wise who so euer with full obedience do steadfastly beleue the same shall haue the life euerlasting not withstanding the manifest tran sgressions of the law The rest of this part is be fore answered and thereforâ— I will not with repeticion trouble the reader for ye be neuer able to proue that Adame and Dauid were so out of the loue of God that he did not loue them in Christ his Sonne in whom they were elected Dauid was no suche mankiller as was Cayn of whom Saint Iohn speaketh who delited in blood to the end Nether did NathaÌ„ shew nor Dauid pronounce any suche iudgemeÌ„t against him self as ye imagin but being conuicted in in his own conscience how horribly he had offended he did heare not withstanding that ioyfull sentence The Lord hath taken a way thy sinne thow shalt not die c. Which sentence no doubt proceded frome that immutable loue w c was reserued to him in Christ Iesus euen when he was fardest declined from God It will be hard for you to proue by euident scriptures that Dauid was altogither void of faith but granting that he as concerning his own sense and feling was vtterly dead yet doth it not thereof follow that so he displeased God that he fell from the loue and fauor of God as touching his electioÌ„ for the Apostle vpon whose wordes ye seme to grounde your reason meaneth not that the lack of faith in all persons at all tymes and in all respectes doth so displease God that he hateth them and reiecteth them to death euerlasting For childreÌ„ for a tyme lacke faith and yet Crist pronounceth that their Angelles do se the face of his father and that the kingdoÌ„ of heauen apperteineth to such Thomas was vnfaithfull euen after Christes resurrectioÌ„ And yet did he not so displease his maister as before we heaue touched but that he did sekeâ— him and did remoue his incredulitie And Christ Iesus did rebuke the vnbelief of his disciples and the hardnes of their heartes but yet did he not vtterly dispyse them But now to the rest ADVERSARIE But if the scripures will not satisâ—ie you then must you be beaten with your own râ—d for if I grante you that all men did not fall out of gods holie election unto coÌ„dennation by Adams traÌ„sgressâ—on it followeth therupon that the coÌ„ming of Christ his procious death and passioâ— is superfluous vaine and of none effecte So by your
peruers dâ—ctryne â—e will infect Christianite with the chief error wherewith the Iewes be deludâ—d That 〈◊〉 they esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the offence coÌ„mitted by Adam euen so may I collect of your error-for what nedeth Christ to die for them whom nether Adams transgression â–ª nether their own could make them fall from gods election but now I will more largely dilate this argument Election was afore the world when there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sitheÌ„se the world was created because of sinne for had not sinne bene we neded no new promes being alredie iust and holie images of God Now if the elect did not fall out of the election by AdaÌ„s traÌ„sgressâ—on then nede they no redemer being alredie safe by reason of the electioÌ„ in which they were afore sinne aÌ„d remaine still in the same Because as you say the elect nether did nor can fall out of the election Then seing the elect be safe and hole they nede no phisition nether came Christ to call the righteous but â—innâ—rs wherfor the death of Christ as concerning them is in vain they being safe alredie by election The like argument vseth Paul to the Galathyaâ—s if righteousnes cometh by the Law then Christ died in vaine if the elect â–ª be stâ—ll in the fauor of God what nede they of Christ to reconcile them to the father in whose fauore they are alredie Now as touching the other sorte whom ye call reprobates you say they caÌ„ by no maner of meanes be saued yea that Christ died not for them then was Chistes death altogither in Vaine â–ª for his death you say belongeth not to the reprobate and the elect haue no nede of it Is not this godlie gere ANSWER In dilating your argument by the which ye go about to proue y t Christes preciouse death was surperfluouse and vaine if the elect did not fall from their election this reason ye vse Election was afore the world wheÌ„ there was no sinne and the promes of Christ was made sithence the world was created becaus of sinne for had not sinne bene we nedâ—d no newe promes being alredie iust and holie â—mages of God Now if the elect say you did not fall out of the election by Adams transgression then nede they no râ—demer being alredie saue by reason of the election in the which they were afore sinne and remaine still in the same c â–ª In this argument ye commit two fowle faultes The first ye take that for a thing true aÌ„d coÌ„fessed which is fals and therefore by vs alwaies denied for thus ye reason man was elected before the worlde was created but man sinned aftre the world was created Ergo man fel from his election we still denie the conclusion and do affirme that as we were elected in Christ Iesus before all times so did the elect euer remainâ— in Christ. and therfore after that they had sinned it behoued that the promes shoulde be declared that by the same the elect might receaue comfort and be assured of their election Your second fault more declareth youre grosse ignorance in the mysterie of our redemption for from election ye streight waies leap to glorificacion and saluation obseruing nether middes nor meanes which gods wisdome hath appointed and determined to go betwext Trew it is God hath elected in Christ to life euerlasting his chosen childreÌ„ But how Sainct Paul yea the hole scriptures wheresoeuer mention is made of our election ioyneth therewith the death and blood of Christ. for none otherwies were we elected in him but that he shoulde sustein the punishement for our transgression And that we shoulde receaue life which we had lost in Adam and in our selues by the meanes of his death and resurrection therefore where ye reason if the elect did not fall oute of the Election by Adams transgressioÌ„ theÌ„ nede they no redemer being alredie saued by reason of their election the coÌ„clusion is fals and the reason vaine for the elect haue nede of a redemer not because that they did fal out of election but by reason that they did fal from iustice to sinne froÌ„ obedieÌ„ce to dissobedieÌ„ce therefore nede they a redemer a phisicion aÌ„d one to giue theÌ„ life because y t they being elect in gods eternal counsel are yet fallen into bondage into mortal sicknes death by their own traÌ„sgression If ye can proue y t the elect did not sinne that they are noâ— sicke then might ye haue concluded that they neded no redemer nor phisition And so ye might haue proceded in your argument vpon the wordes of the Apostle saing that if righteousnes cometh by the law then Christ died in vaine but seing that all gods childreÌ„ are fallen in to sinne the bondage and miserie wherof they in this lief coÌ„tinually fele how iustly ye may conclude that becaus they remained in gods election and so consequently in his fauor by Christ that therefor they neded no redemer let the indifferent reader iudge If it seme straÌ„ge to you that God loued sinners in Christ besides the places that are afore alledged for probation of that part heare what the veritie it self pronounceth So God loued the world saieth our master that his onelie begotten Sonne hath he giuen whom soeuer ye shall vnderstand vnder the name of the world ye can not sâ—clude sinners from it where ye most vnreuerently ask what then nede they of Christ to recoÌ„cile them I answer with greater feare and reuerence then alas you declare euen such nede they haue of Christ as the bodie hath of the soule or yet the liuing maÌ„ of holsome nuriture yea much more for albeit the bodie haue lief by the meanes of meat and drink yet haue the elect nether lief nor reconciliation but by Christ Iesus yea and that by the meanes of his deathe and passion by the which iust payment and satisfaction is made to gods iustice for their sinnes And so are they reconciled who by nature are the enemies to God We do not denie but that Christes death is sufficient for to redeme the sinnes of the hole world but because all do not receaue it with faith which is the fre gift of God giuen to the chosen children therefor abyde thâ— vnfaithfull in iust condemnation God remitt vnto you if his good pleasure be aswell your vnreuerent conclusion as your most vniust accusation in which ye burden vs that we will infect the Christianitie with the chief error with the which the Iewes are infected who esteme it a great madnes to say that Christ should suffer death for the sinnes and offences committed by Adam Assuredly I do more then woÌ„der that such impietie shal be found in any creature indewed with reason but I remitt iudgemeÌ„t to God Thus you procede THE ADVERSARIE The Apostle saieth God hath frome the begining choseÌ„ you to saluatioÌ„ through sanctifiyng of the the spirit
affections to his will reueled but also our reason appeare it neuer so probable With the which if we stand not satisfied but quarreling with God will or dare in a blynd fury ask to what purpose commandeth and speaketh he one thing meaneth the contrary That deuelishe presumption shall fall down from the clouds and break downe for euer the frantick heads of such vile slaues of proud lucifer And therefor be ye warned for vengeance is prepared for all such vnreuerent reasoners in gods perfect but yet profound iudgementes as ye declare your selues to be in this which foleweth If God say you in respect of his reueled will wold not that Adam should falle but in respecte of his secrete will he wold Adam should fallâ— then did God will two contraries which is impossible Answere Impossible we confesse it to be that contrarietie should be in that will which in it self is simple and one But how shall you be able to proue that God in reueling his will to Adam had none other purpose nor will but onely that Adam should not falle because say you he said thou shalt not eate I answer so said he to AbrahaÌ„ thou shalt take aÌ„d offer thy sonne in sacrifice And yet we knowe that the contrarie had he determined O crye you God abhorreth a double heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other and yet ye abhorre nes to charge God with that which he can not abide in his creatures that is that he should speak one thing as that AdaÌ„ should not offeÌ„d will the cotrarie as that AdaÌ„ should offend Answer God if his good pleasure be towch your heartes with such vnfeined repeÌ„tance that you may vnderstand howe horrible be these blasphemies which thus in your furious blindnes you spew forth against gods supreme Maiestie for before I haue said they are not spoken against vs. for no such doctrine do we teach nor affirme as that of which you gather these blasphemies aÌ„d albeit we did yet it were as easie for vs to dissolue aÌ„d vnlouse such deuelish knottes as by instructioÌ„ of your father you knit to trippe y e soules of the simple as it is for y e fote of the valiant strong maÌ„ to burst a sondre the spiders webbes which y e venemous spider maketh to catch the impoteÌ„t flies and feble gnattes And now left y â— you should glorie as thogh yo r reasons yet stoode sure Let vs trie aÌ„d examine euery membre aparte God abhorreth say you a dooble heart which speaketh one thing and thinketh an other I answer That as God is a spirit and hath neither heart nor bodie like as man hath so must not his words cogitations and thoghtes be compared to ours for as we be corrupte liers and vaine so where we do speak one thing and think an other we do meane deceate fraud and destruction to our brother to whome we promise trueth fidelitie conseruation to our power But God according to the puritie and perfection of his godlie nature in speaking to his creatures and in creating of them must not absolutely haue respect to theÌ„ but also to his owne glory for what reason is it that God of nothiÌ„g shall make that câ—eature by whome his glory shall not be manyfested and therefor in speaking to Adam and in giuing a lawe to him God had respecte to his eternall counsell purpose as before we haue spoken and hereafter shall rehears But still crye you that yet we burden God w t that which he caÌ„not abyde in his creatures that is that he should speak one thiÌ„g as that Adam should not haue fallen and that he ment the contrarie for answer I ask of you if ye will binde God to that lawe which he hath imposed to his creatures And if ye will leaue none other libertie to God his soueraigne maiestie then his lawe hath permitted to men subiecte to the same and if ye dare promise to your selues that authoritie ouer God girde your loines and play the stroÌ„g champions prepare your seates appoint your iudges cite and adiourne him to appeare at a fixed day to rendre a reason a make an accoÌ„pte before you of his vniuersall regiment in which no doubt ye shall finde many things more repugnant to your reason then this You think I mock you in that I wil you to cite and call God to an accoÌ„pt in very dede I do for as your blasphemie pride is vtterlie to be abhorred so is your vanitie more worthie to be mocked then your simplicitie in that case to be instructed for what was he euer yet amongest the most ignorant ethnicks so foolishe or so presumpteous but that he did confesse that the workes and wonders of the supreme God were exempted from all lawe and censure of mans iudgement But in your presence God shall haue no libertie to command or forbid any thing to any of his creatures but that he must nedes absolutely will the same and for no cause or respecte may he will the contrarie but that he shall haue a dooble heart he shal be a disseÌ„bler cursed be your blasphemie that causeth me thus to write and in him there shal be coÌ„trarietie this is the reuerence which ye beare to gods infinite wisdome in all his workes to the ground whereof ye can not atteine by your corrupt reason that you burst forth in scoffing mocking and blasphemie But yet to come more nye to the mater I denie that iustly you can conclude any contrarietie to be in God albeit that to Adam he said thou shall not eate and yet in his eternall counsell he had determined that Adam shoulde eate neither yet I say caÌ„ you be able to proue that he spoke one thing willed the contrarie because he pronounced this sentence in what so euer day thow shalt eate of this tree thou shalt dye the death but rather we maye most assuredly conclude that both the precept the penaltie threatned to ensue the violation of it was a plaine and manifest declaration what before was concluded in gods eternall counsell as also that they were the meanes by the which the secret will and good purpose of God toke effecte amongest men was notified vnto the world for if God had not before appointed the falle and the remedie for the same he had not imposed vpon him a lawe the transgression whereof should bring death but should haue suffered him to liue without such feare and bondage as we shall do when victorie shal be giuen ouer death which is the sting of sinne ouer sinne also which had his power by the lawe And therefor I say that gods commandement forbidding Adam to eate and the punishment of death denounced if he did eate were nothing contrary to his secret will but were the very wayes appointed by his infinite wisdome by the which he had determined that his secrete will concerning the mysterie of maÌ„s redemption should be notified put in execution
to perdition which ende was appointed vnto them not against gods will but by his will â—mmutable in his eternall counsell For no lesse will he that the seueritie of his iudgementes be sene in the vessels of wrath theÌ„ that the riches of his grace be praised in the vessels of mercie Storme and rage spew furth your venom and blaspheme till ye prouoke gods vengeance at once to be powred forth vpon your owne heades this sentence will he neuer retracte He will haue mercie vpon whom he will haue mercy and whom he will he maketh hard hearted That God in him selfe hath but one will which is holy iust and permanent that in him there is no contraritie that he is faithfull and doth perfourme what soeuer he doth promise What we vnderstand by gods secrete will and how he tempteh no man I haue before sufficiently declared And therefore I will not truble the reader with the repetitioÌ„ of the same Now let vs heare what is your iudgement of vs and how ye extolle your selues THE ADVERSARIE As these goddes be of contrarie nature so do they begette children of a contrarie nature the fals God begetteh vnmercifull proud ambicrouse and enuifull children bloody persecutors of others for their conscience saik euill speakers â—mpacient contenciouse and seditious children And they be like vnto their father in that they speake one thing with their mouth and think an other with their heart They can neuer be without filthy thâ—ghtes wicked 〈◊〉 for such poyson do they receaue of their father The trew God begetteth mercifull humble lowlye and louing children abhorring from blood persecuting no man good speakers patient detesting all 〈◊〉 chiding and brawling and they be like vnto their father in that what soeuer they speak with their mâ—uth they think with their heart they be alwaies moued with good thoghtes and gâ—dly reuelations for such grace receaue they 〈…〉 of their father ANSWER It may seme by the description of these your two goddes for nether of both as ye describe them is the true liuing eternall God that ye studie to renew the daÌ„nable error of the Manichies who imagined two beginners the one of all goodnes and of all good creatures the other of all iniquitie and of wicked creatures affirming further that the good and the mercifull God was ouercome for a time by him that was wicked and euill And because that the plaine scriptures did confute these blasphemâ—es therefor did they denie the authoritie of Moises and the certentie of all other scriptures that made any thing against their error If manifestly ye did take vpon you the defense of those your fathers as that ye do of Pellagius of Donatus and of the Papistes for of all these adulterous fathers ye be adulterous children then wolde I from Augustine whom God stirred vp no doubte in the daies of darckenes most learnedly and most plainely by infallible scriptures to cofute those heresies from him I say I might take artilerie all ready prepared able inough to ouerthrow your buildinges and munitions appere they neuer so strong But because as before I haue said my purpose is not to burden you further then you do confesse I onely admonish the reader to be ware of such pestilences as beginne to call the trueth of God reueled in his holy word in doubt and do persuade men to credite dreames and reuelations how soeuer they appere to repugne to that which is reueled in the word Of such men I say â–ª oght Christes flock to take hede as also of those who make of eguall authoritie such bookes as yet the holy Gost hath neuer coÌ„mended to the Church of Christe with these that are written by Moises the Prophetes the Euangelistes and Apostles and that by inspiration of the holy Gost. That some of you be infected with this most pestilent poison I am able to proue by mo argumentes then one Being at London the the winter before the death of king Edward one â–ª of your faction required secrete communication of me in which after that earnestly he had required of me closenes and fidelitie because that the maters that he had to communicate with me were so weightie and of such importance as sythence the daies of the Apostles the like was neuer opened vnto man In the ende after many wordes which I nether gladly heard nether yet will now write he gaue me a boke written as he said by God euen as well as was any of the EuaÌ„gelistes This his booke he adiured me as it were to reade and required to haue my iudgement of it My answer was that at his request I wold reade it so that he wold be coÌ„tent to reason with me of the chiefe pointes in the same conteined but to pronounce sentence or iudgement that could I not vsurpe being but one man farre inferior to many of my brethern y e preachers of gods word in that realme Alwaies he vrged me to reade his booke And I woÌ„dering what mysteries it should coÌ„teine called to me a faithfull brother who then as pleased God was present with me named HeÌ„ry Farrour marchaÌ„t to whom I opened the mater by whose counsell and in whose presence I beganne to reade his boke The first proposition wherof was God made not the world nether yet the wicked creatures in the same conteined but they had their beginning from a nother that is from the deuill who is called the Prince of the world which proposition plainly repugning to gods word I did impugne and begaÌ„ne to declare vnto him for what cause Sathan had that title to be called the Prince of y e world But he vtterly denying ether to reasoÌ„ and dispute ether yet to be reformed in any point that there was written commaÌ„nded me to reade forward to beleue howbeit I did not vnderstand To whom when I had gentilly said Can any reasonable man will me to beleue thinges directly fighting against gods veritie and plaine word reueled Tusch said he for your written word we haue as good and as sure a word and veritie that teacheth vs this doctrine as ye haue for you and your opinioÌ„ And theÌ„ I did more sharpely answere saing ye deserue the death as a blasphemous person and denier of God if ye preferre any word to that which the holy Gost hath vttered in his plaine scriptures At which wordes he toke pepper in nose and snatching his boke furth of my hand departed after he had thus spoken I will goo to the ende of the world but I will haue my boke confirmed and subscribed with better learned men then you be In me I coÌ„fesse there was greate negligeÌ„ce that nether did reteine his boke nether yet did present him to the Magistrate But yet this argument I haue that your faction is not altogether cleane from the heresie of the Manichies I could name and point forth others who labour in the same disease but so long as their venom doth remaine secrete within them selues I am
steadfastly to cleaue and stick to the trueth whose force effect they se alwaies to haue bene one frome the begīning The giuers of these offēses shall no doubt sustein the wo pronounced against them by Christe Iesus But yet must the childrē of God vnderstand that of necessitie it is that such offēses come that the elect may first be tryed and after be partakers of that blessing pronoūced by our master in those wor des Blessed is he that is not offended in me The cause of these my former wordes is that as Satā euer frome the beginnīg hath declared him self ennemie to the fre grace and vndeserued loue of God so hath he now in these last and moste corrupted daies most furiously raged agaīst that doctrine which attributeth all praise and glorie of oure redemption to the eternall loue and vndeserued grace of God alone By what meanes sathā first drew mākynd frome the obediēce of God the scripture doeth witnesse To wit by powring into their hartes that poison that God did not loue thē and by affirming that by transgressiō of gods cōmandemēt they might attein to felicitie and ioy so that he caused them to seke life where God had prounced death to be This same practise hath sathan euer frome the beginning vsed to infect the Church with al kynd of heresie as the writings of Moises of the Prophetes of the Apostles of the godlie in the primatiue Church do playnelie witnes But alas to such blasphemie did neuer the deuil draw mākynd as now of late daies in the which no small nōbre are become so bolde so impudent and so irreuerent that opēly they feare not to affirme God to be vniust if that he in his eternal coūsel hath elected more one sort of mē thē an other to life euerlasting in Christe Iesus our Lord which thing of late daies is more planely come to oure knowledge thē before we could haue suspected and that by the sight of a book moste detestable blasphemous cōteinyng as it is intiteled The cōfutation of the errors of the careles by necessitie with that odious name do they burden all those that either do teach ether yet beleue the doctrine of gods eternall predestination ▪ which booke writtē in the english tōgue doeth cōtein as well the lies and the blasphemies imagined by Sebastian Castalio and laid to the charge of that moste faithfull seruāt of God Iohn Caluine as also the vane reasōs of Pighius Sadoletus Georgius Siculus pestilēt Papistes expressed ennemies of gods free mercies The dispitefull railīg of w t booke the manifest blasphemies in the same cōteined togither with the earnest req̄sts of som godlie brethren moued me to prepare an answere to the same others I dowbt not might haue done it with greater dexteritie but with reuerēce feare do I lay the talēt cōmitted to my charge vpō y e table of the Lord to brīg to his church such aduātage as his godli wisdō hath appointed But lest that some shoulde thīk that my labors might better haue bene bestowed in some other exercise I thoght expediēt to admonish all brethrē charitably to requyre of thē not to esteme the mater to be of small weight importāce ▪ for seing that gods fre grace is opēly impugned disdainfully refused I iudge it the duetie of euerie man that loketh for life euerlasting to giue his confession to Christe Iesus whose glorie is by these blasphemers to y e vttermoste of their power suppressed Some do thinke that because the reason of man can not atteine to the vnderstanding how God shall be iust making in his counsel this diuersitie of mankīd that therefore better it were to kepe silēce in al such mysteries then to trouble the braynes and myndes of men with curious disputatiōs I willingly confesse that al curiositie oght to be auoided and that with great sobrietie we oght to contemplate beholde that incomprehensible mysterie of our redēption But yet I say that the doctrine of gods eternal predestinatiō is so necessarie to the Church of God that without the same can faith neither be truely taught nether surely established mā cā neuer be broght to true humilitie knowledge of him self nether yet cā he be rauished in admiration of gods eternal goodnes and so moued to praise him as apperteineth And therefor we feare not to affirme that so necessarie as it is that true faith be established in o r har tes y t we be broght to vnfined humilitie y t we be moued to praise hī for his fre graces receaued so necessary also is y e doctrin of gods eternall predestination For first there is no way more proper to buyld and establish faith thē whē we heare and vndoubtedly do beleue that our election which the Spirit of God doth seale in our hartes cōsisteth not in our selues but in the eternal and immutable good pleasure of God And that in such firmitie that it cā not be ouerthrowen nether by the raging stormes of the world nor by the assaultes of sathan nether yet by the wauering and weaknes of our own fleshe Then onely is our saluation in assurance whē we fynd the cause of the same in the bosom and counsell of God For so do we by faith apprehend life and peace manifested in Christe Iesus that by the directiō and guyding of the same faith we looke farther to wit out of what fountaine life doth procede In Christe Iesus now presētly do we fynd libertie ād life he is made vnto vs of God wisdome righteousnes and sanctification and redēption and in the promes of his Gospel is foūded the stabilitie of our saluation But yet we haue a ioy which far surmounteth this For albeit that we should heare that the mercies the graces of God were offered vnto all men and albeit also that we should fele that our heartes were somwhat moued to beleue yet onles the very cause of our faith be knowen oure ioye and comfort cā not be full For if we shall think that we beleue ād haue embrased Christe Iesus preached because our wittes be better then the wittes of others and because that we haue a better inclination and are of nature more tractable then be the cōmon sorte of men sathan I say can easely ouer throw all comfort buylded vpon so weak a ground for as the heart of man is vain and inscrutable so may it be that those that this day be tractable and obedient hauing also som zeale toward godlines yea and also bothe sense and feling of gods mercie such I say may shortly here after become stubborn in some cases disobedient in maters of greate importance tempted with lustes and finally they may be left so barren that rather they shal tremble at the sight of gods iudgemētes thē that they can reioyse in the free adoptiō of his children And therefor I say that except our comfort be
be thy cogitations of the eternall God head when thou saiest God must loue his birthes becaus he hath giuen a naturall inclination to all beastes to loue their birthes If thy reason be good then must God forget some of his birthes in their youth and reiecte all care of theÌ„ For that same nature giueth God to som fowles as y e book of Iob doth witnes in these wordes speaking of the Estrich which leaueth his egges in the earth and maketh them hote in the dust aÌ„d forgetteth that the foote might scatter them or that the wilde beast might breake them He sheweth him self cruell vnto his young ones as they were not his and is withoute feare as if he traualed in vain For God hath depriued him of wisdome and hath geuen him no parte of vnderstanding If thy reason I say be good God must loue his birth because he causeth all other beastes loue their birthes Then I say it must also folow God shall forgett and hardly intreat som for such nature and inclination hath he giuen to som of his creatures as is plainely proued I do mean thow wilt say of loue onely but the scripture which either ignorantly orels maliciously thow corruptest declareth the contrarie for thow wilt make God to beare because he causeth others to beare That scripture I say thow doest peruerte as thow doest all the rest For what the Prophete of God applieth to the miraculous restauration of the church whiche then was most afflicted that thow doest alledge to make God haue like asrections with brute beastes And that neither thou nor any other shall haue occasion to reporte that I accuse the wrongfully I will recite the hole wordes of the Prophete who thus speaketh Before she hath traueled of child birth she hath borne and before that doloure come she broght furth a man who hath heard the like or who hath sene the like vnto this was y e earth builded he meaneth set in order in one day was there euer a nation borne at once and yet Zion hath traualed of child birth and at once hath she broght furth hir children he addeth the cause of this supernaturall multiplication and felicitie Saying shall I bring to a strait and shall I not cause to bear saveth the eternall shall I cause to beare aÌ„d shall make restraiÌ„te saith thy God They are more then blynd which do not se that God in these wordes hath neither respect to the naturall inclination of beastes neither yet to any common loue that he beareth to his creatures But to that incomprehensible and vnchangeable loue which he beareth to his churche the multiplication the ioy and felicitie whereof he will at once bring furth in such sort that his elect shall neuer remember to their grief that they susteined any passion or paine Let the indifferent reader compare this interpretation with the plane wordes of the Prophete and so let thy self iudge how irreuerently thow doest abuse the moste confortable wordes of the holie Gost to establish thy error But let it be that thow didst mean of loue and of no affection els Art thow becume so bolde and impudent that thow darrest subiect God to the law lymites and boundes of nature To speake the mater more planely I ask of the first if thow wilt denie the loue of God to be perfecte except that he do for all maner of men that whiche beastes naturally do for their birthes Secondarely if thow filthie earth darest burden God in his presence with crueltie as now thow doest in thy blind raige if he hath not created and made all men of equall estate condition and dignitie Thirdly if thow shalt stand in iudgement and lay iniustice to his charge if he shew mercie to whoÌ„ he will and also indurate aÌ„d make hard who he will For all these thre will I planely proue that God doeth first y t he doth not for his dearest children to our iudgement that which beastes naturally do for their birthes I trust thy self will easely confes For the Tygar the bear the Lyon and others do so tender their whelpes that euen against the strength of man were he neuer so valiant will they fight for defence of their young ones but we do se that God comonly doth so permit his dearest children to the cruel appetites of the most wicked men that for a season he appereth to haue forgotten them and to haue turned his face and countenance frome them And shall we therefor think that gods loue is not perfect or that his power is diminished or his good will towardes his childreÌ„ chaÌ„ged God forbid But this say you doth not offend vs but that God should reprobat any man whom he created to his own image and similitude that we caÌ„ not beare for it repugneth to his loue and iustice Well of your first reason which you drawe frome nature I suppose we haue obteined that God is not bound in all things to folow the natural loue of his creatures For he doeth often suffer and I trust ye will not say that he is enforced so to do his dearest children most cruelly to be handled which no beast willingly will do Now let vs wey your seconde reason man sayeth your book is the birthe and child of God created to his own image and similitud as the Prophet saieth wherefor God loueth his own birth that is maÌ„ Then did he not reprobate and cast away man afore he was for that were a proof that he hated and abhorred Omitting your ignorance by the whiche ye applie generally to all men those promesses which the Prophete Malachie spake to the people of God Let it be granted vnto you that as all men were created in Adam so God som maner of way is their father what will or can ye thereof conclude That God loueth all say you If you vnderstand and affirme that equally God loueth all because all were created by him the common experience aÌ„d the diuersitie of gods giftes shall reproue your vanitiâ—for vnto one man we see greater giftes giuen then vnto other som we se verteouse and others giuen to nothing but to iniquitie If you say he loueth them in that he offereth vnto theÌ„ his grace which when they refuse then beginneth he to hate them you haue proued nothing of your intent and further the plain scripture confuteth this your error and first I say that before ye can proue your conclusion to be good ye must proue that all men stode do stand and be born in the same perfection that Adame was created in For it doth not folow that God still loueth all men because he loued Adam created to his own image and similitude The reason is Adam did fall from that image became rebellious inobedieÌ„t and slaue to the deuill And in the same damnation wrapped all his posteritie So that now from Adam we can clame nothing but sinne wrath death and hatred as the apostle affirmeth
affirme that gods election in Christ Iesus is so certen ād his eternall purpose to saue his churche is so cōstant that against the faith of gods elect shall not the Portes and gates of hell preuale in the end that neither can lief nor death thinges present nor to com seperat and disseuer vs from the loue of God which is in Christe Iesus That this foundation is stable the Lord knoweth his own and therefor shall euerie one that incalleth the name of the Lord depart from iniquirie for we are not called to vncleannes but vnto sanctification and holynes by the power of that Spirit who raysed from death Iesus the great Pastor of our soules which holie spirit frely by faith which also is the gift of God doeth so reule and reign in our heartes that albeit the flesh lusteth against the spirit yet are we assured of victorie by the onely power of him who hath ouercom the world This is our doctrine faith and professiō But you affirme as after plainely ye write that none is so elected in Christ to lief euerlasting but that he may fall becom a reprobate and finally be condemned and cōtrary waies y t none is so reprobate in gods eternall purpose but that he may becom elect ād so be saued That in God there is neither election nor reprobation but according to mannes disposition so that when men haue good motiōs and be godly disposed God doeth elect thē and write their names in the book of lief but when they chāge and turne to iniquitie he doeth reprobate them and blotteth out their names out of the book of lief Let now all creatures iudge betwext vs and you whether of the two play fast and loose and surmounte iuglers in cūning Frome the third kind of election which ye call most especiall how you be able to proue that the seuentie disciples did so depart from Christe that there was no difference betwext them and the trudging of Iudas as ye terme his horrible treason be iudges your self In the sixt of Iohn we read that many of his disciples left him and fallīg frō him did go with him no more But whether these were the hole seuentie whom he sent to preach or others who for a time did folow him it is not expressed neither yet doeth the text say that all his disciples fell from him but many departed further it appereth to me verie rashe iudgemēt to pronoūce that none that departed from Christe at any tyme in his lief before his death vpon the crosse did at any tyme after return vnto hī but that all such did remain in damnation with Iudas For I fynd that all his Apostles did flie and leaue him and yet we know they were called againe And so also do we fynd were two of the disciples to whom Christ appering betwext Ierusalem and Emaus did first instruct them and after reueled him self vnto thē This I note to giue you occasion to be more circunspect in so weghtie maters Towardes the end of this parte thus ye write of those whome you say haue subiected them selues altogither to the gouernement of their Lord and capteyn they daily obtein such victorie of their ennemies that their war fare is now becom easie and in the hope they haue to subdue by the aid and counsell of their Lord all their ennemies there ioy and comfort is so greate that they esteme all earthlie pleasure which should draw thē back but vaine These wordes augment in me that suspition which before I noted to witt that ye haue a further fetch in this mater then your rude scholers vnderstand at the first to witt that euerie one of you shall becom Christes so perfect ād cleā that in you euen in this lief shall rest no ennemie to be ouercome except death onely and that this is the opiniō of your greatest Angelles I am able to proue by sufficient testimonie I mean by their own hand writinges But how far S. Paul was from that perfection yea euen when he was redie to be offerred in sacrifice for the testimonie of Christe Iesus he eshamed not to confesse thus writing to the Philippians after that he had affirmed that all iustice which before he looked for in the law was becom to him as domage and doung to the end that he might winne Christ and be found in him not hauing his own iustice which was of the law but that which was by the faith of Christ Iesus he addeth Not as thogh I had already atteined to the mark vnderstanding to that iustice which he hoped for either that I am alredy perfect but I folowe if I may comprehend that for whoe 's sake I am comprehended of Christe Iesus Brethren I think not with my self to haue atteined to the mark but one thing I do forgetting that that is behind I endeuore my self to that which is before here the Apostle who had foghten somwhat lōger thē some who now can bragge of an easie battell confessed he was not yet perfect neither yet that he had atteined to that estate that is to the resurrectiō of the dead to the which he daily did contend The other poyson which in these your former wordes I espie and therefor of conscience must admonish my brethren is That ye be proud contemners of the fre graces of God offered to man in Christe Iesus for with the Pelagians and Papistes ye are become teachers of fre will and defenders of your own iustice for how coldly ye speak of Christ Iesus and his power these your wordes may witnes They are in hope say you to subdue their ennemies by the aid counsell of their Lord are you becom so strong and your warfare so easie that the coūsell of your captein is sufficient for you to conquire your ennemies you sodenly did repent that ye had confessed that the aid of your Lord was necessarie for you and therefor to mitigate and extenuate that immediatly ye adde by the coūsell of their Lord. Is this I pray you vnfeanedly to cōfesse that without Christ ye may do nothing that of your selues ye be not able to think one good thoght That it is he that beginneth and to the end performeth the work of our saluation God of his greate mercie and for Christe Iesus his sonnes saik preserue his Church from your pestilent vēnom What ye mean by the historie of Gedeō in the which say you well and duelly vnderstanded be your thre kindes of Election plainelie set furth because ye your self do not expresse I will not deuyne The copie which came to my handes was in that place imperfecte for after the former wordes it had onely written Confyr to the world And because I will not take vpon me to alter any thing in your wordes I leaue them to be corrected by your selues ād your mynd further to be explaned in that point if so it shall seme good vnto you Ye procede saying THE ADVERSARIE
yet are spokeÌ„ of God vnto Rebecca none of vs denieth but that which ye thereof inferre to witt that therefor they are not to be referred to that sentence which Paul alledgeth before the childreÌ„ were borne and yer they did either good or badd procedeth either of your blind ignoraÌ„ce orels of your malicious despite which agaiâ—st the fre grace of God ye haue conceaued for establishing of your own iustice Trew it is these wordes were spoken by Malachie the Prophete after the reduction of the people frome the captiuitie of Babylon But when we haue a litle considered the scope and purpose of the Prophete then shall we first consider whether he did vnsterstand the loue of God and his hatered to appertein to the two peoples onely and not also to the two original heades And after we shall see whether the mynd and plaine wordes of Paul will suffer and bear your interpretation or not Shortly after that the people of Israel I mean the tribes of Iuda Beniamin and I â—eui were by the miraculous work of God after the bondage of 70. yeres set at libertie and broght againe to Ierusalem in which they did reedifie the temple repaire the walles aÌ„d beginne to multiplie and so to grow to som streÌ„gth within the citie and land they fall to their old nature I mean to be vngrate and vnthankfull vnto God the people were slothfull and the priestes who should haue prouoked the people to the remembrance of those great benefites were become euen like to the rest The Lord therefor did raise vp his Prophete Malachie who was the last before Christ sharply to rebuke and plainely to coÌ„uict this horrible ingratitude of that vnthankfull nation who so shamefully had forgotten those so great benefits recently bestowed vpon them And thus beginneth he his prophecie I haue loued you saieth the Lord in which wordes he speaketh not of a common loue which in preseruing and feding all creatures is commoâ— to the reprobate but of that loue by the which he had sanctified and seperated them from the rest of nations to haue his glorie manifested But becaus they as all vngrate persons do did not consider wherin this his loue towardes them more then towardes others did stand he bringeth them to the fountein demanding this question was not Esau brother to Iacob saieth the Lord and neuertheles Iacob haue I loued and Esau I haue hated and this he proueth not onely by the diuersitie of the two couÌ„treis which were giueâ— to their posterities but also by that that God coÌ„tinually shewed hiÌ„ self louiâ—g to Iacob and to his posteritie reducing them againe after long captiuitie declaring him self as it were ennemy to Edom whose desolation he wold neuer restore but wold distroy that which they shoulde go about to build Let now the godlie reader iudge whether that the mynd of the Prophete was to seclude Iacob in his person from the loue of God and Esau from his hatered or that it was not rather to rebuke the vnthankfulnes of the people who did not consider that vndeserued loue which God did shew to their first father whiles he was yet in his mothers bosome for where he saieth was not Esau brother to Iacob he wold put them in mynd that Iacob had no prerogatiue aboue Esau yea that the was inferior to him as coâ—cerning the law of nature and therefor that he oght to haue bene subiect vnto him but God of fre grace did preferre the yonger to the elder which loue and preferment he constantly did kepe to his sede after him This I am assured can no godlie man denie to be the verey meaning of the Prophete Trew it is that he doeth include both the peoples the one loued and the other hated But what reason is it that the heades shall be secluded seing that the begiÌ„ning of the diuersitie did first appere in them and the Prophete plainely saieth Iacob haue I loued and Esau haue I hated Now to the mind of the Apostle you say that these wordes afore the children were born are not to be referred to the sentence which followeth Iacob haue I loued Esau haue I hated and the cause ye add as we before haue declared I answer that the most iust iudgementes of God are fearefull and your blindnes oght to admonishe all men to examin them selues with what conscieÌ„ce they go to intreate gods secrete mysteries If that sentence before the children were born oght not to be referred to these wordes Iacob haue I loâ—ued and Esau haue I hated I pray you to what wordes oght they to be referred Did the Apostle speak theÌ„ at all aduenture without respect to any thing folowing I trust ye will grant asmuch as God spak to witt that before the children wer born God said The elder shal serue the yonger and then I pray you answer whether ye think that the preferment of Iacob to Esau proceded frome loue or frome hatred or if the subiectioÌ„ of Esau to his brother was not a declaration of gods hatred If you denie yet will the Prophete condemne you as before we haue proued ye can not escaip with the solution which a writer defending fre will giueth which is this That there mention is made onely of temporall and carnal benedictioÌ„ ment vnder the name of loue and of pouertie with barrennes of grounde vnderstand by the name of hatred which solution is so colde that it perisheth in the self for I think no man to be so blynd but that he seeth the mynd of the Apostle to be beÌ„t vpon the spirituall benediction as in his hole disputation is euident But let it be that the corporall benediction which we vtterly exclude not be there vnderstaÌ„d and meÌ„t yet that neither helpeth him nor you for where so euer gods establyshed loue is there is lief where so euer his established hatred is there is death but vpon Iacob and vpon his sede spiritual I mean was established the loue of God as the Prophete affirmeth and our Apostle most pro foundely alledgeth and vpon Esau and vpon his posteritie was established and confirmed the hatred Ergoâ— vpon him and them remained death CoÌ„sider now how that the Apostle after these wordes The elder shall serue the yonger ioyneth this senteÌ„ce as it is written Iacob haue I loued but Esau I haue hated In which wordes the holie Gost agreeth together the wordes of the Prophete and the wordes of God spoken to Rebecca and maketh the one to interprete the other for where God saieth the elder shall serue that expoÌ„deth the Prophete God hated Esau and where he pronounceth dominion to the yonger that the Prophete explaneth saiÌ„g Iacob haue I loued And when did God thus loue the one and hate the other pronouncing the one to be Lord and the other to be seruant While they were yet saieth he in their mothers wombe and before they had either done good or bad Denie now if ye can that the former wordes oght not to be
it proceded that God did send the Prophete NathaÌ„ to Dauid the offender that by the fiction of an other person he letteth him se the horror of his sinne that he did first terrifie and beate downe his conscience and after most tenderly did erect and lift it vp from the pitt of desperation All these graces say we proceded frome gods immutable loue which did remaine coÌ„stant both towardes the one and towardes the other euen in the tyme of their greatest vnthank fulnes And that because they nether were beloued nor elected in them selues but in Christ Iesus their head who nether did transgresse nor offend in any iote against the wil of his heauenlie father But Adam and Dauid transgressing and horribly falling from God were so hated in them selues and for their sinnes that first behoued the innocent Sonne of God by his death to make a satisfaction â–ª for their sinnes â–ª as also for the sinnes of all gods children And secondarely we say preache write and maintein that the sinne was so odious before God that his iustice could do none other but inflict vpon Adam and his posteritieâ— The penaltie of death corporall the punishemeÌ„tes and plagues which daily we do se apprehend gods children that vpon Dauid he did execute his iust iudgement which in these wordes he pronounced Now therefor y e sworde shall neuer departe from thyne house because thow hast despysed me and taken the wife of vriah the Hittite to be thy wife Thus saieth the lord behold I wil raise vp euill against the oute of thyne own house and I shall take thy wiues before thyne eyes and giue them vnto thy neighbour and he shall lye with thy wyues in the sight of sunne for y u didest it secretely but I shall do this thing before all Israel and before y â— sunne This sentence I say most iustly pronounced was after most sharply and yet most iustly for sinne commited put in â–ª execution And so do we affirm that none of gods children be they neuer so deare shall escaip punishement if contempteously they transgresse I suppose y t this our confession nothing doth offend you except in this one thing y t we affirme that God still loued AdaÌ„ and Dauid after their sinne before y t his holie Sprit wroght in their heartes any true repentance And yet I wonder why this should offend you seing y t we assigne the cause not to be them selues nether any vertue with in them selues but Christ Iesus in whom they were elected and chosen The signes of gods loue we haue euideÌ„tly proued and y â— end and issue did witnes y t gods loue was not mutable If you require scriptures for the probatioÌ„ of y e same Behold they are redie if wheÌ„ we were enemies we were recoÌ„ciled vnto God by the death of his sone much more we being recoÌ„ciled shal be saued by his life And a little before in the same chapter WheÌ„ we were sinners Christ died for vs c. And y e Apostle Iohn herein appereth the loue of God towardes vs y â— his onelie begotten sonne hath he sent in to the world that we may liue by hym herein is loue not that we loued God but that he loued vs. And hath sent his Sonne in the mercieseat â–ª for our sinnes These are verey plaine and we think that no reasonable man wil denie to Adam and to Dauid that which the holie Gost maketh common to all gods elect children to witt to be beloued of God â–ª euen when they were ennemies dead in sinne drowned in idolatrie and polluted with all filthines as witnesseth the Apostle in these wordes And you when ye were dead by sinne in the which ye somtymes walked according to this worlde accordiÌ„g to y â— prince to whom power is the ayre which is the spirit now working in the rebellious children amongest whom we all had somtymes conuersation in the lustâ—s of our flesh doing those thinges which pleased the fleshe and the mynd and were of nature the sonnes of wrathe like as others But God who is riche in mercie for his own great loue by the which he loued vs euen when we were dead by sinnes marke and if ye be offended complein vpon the holie Gost hath qwickened vs togither with Christ by grace ye are saued and hath raised vs vp togither with him and to gither with him hath caused vs to sit amongest y â— heauenlie by Christ Iesus to shew in y e ages to com his most rich grace in his liberalitie by Christ Iesus God open your eyes that you may se the light and mollifie your heartes that ye may magnifie with gods children his superaboundant loue and mercie bestowed euen vpon the most vnworthie If ye think y t this loue hath onelie place before that man offend you se the holie Gost plainely repugneth to your senteÌ„ce for he speaketh to them that had bene polluted defiled with all sinnes If yet ye replie but that was during the tyme of their ignoraÌ„ce and not after they were illuminated by grace ye haue said nothiÌ„g against our confession for we affirme that God loueth sinners being wrapped in death and damnatioÌ„ by sinne and y t we haue plainely proued But yet for your satisfactioÌ„ and instructioÌ„ for I take to record the Lord Iesus y â— I wold bestow my own life to ioyne you fully to Christ Iesue I will procede a litle further with you â–ª Do ye think that the sinne of Dauid touching the nature and qualitie of y e sinne it self was more horrible and odious be fore God then were all the sinnes committed in Ephesus by those to whom the Apostle writeth yea then the â—innes which were done amongest y e hole GeÌ„tiles I trust ye will not think it and we clerely see that God loued y â— elect in Ephesus and amongest the Gentiles when they were drouned in all kynd of iniquitie If still ye replie Dauid was vnthankfull who after so many benefites receaued so traterously declined frome God followiÌ„g his own appetites and of purposed couÌ„sell murthering his innocent seruant and y â— with great ignominie of God This nether do nether yet euer did we denie but yet as y â— question is other so is not our coÌ„feâ—â—ion proued fals Albeit Dauid was vnthankfull yea and after AdaÌ„ most vnthankfull of any of gods children to his daies for herein standeth the doubt whether y â— the vnthankfulnes of gods childreÌ„ after they haue once receaued mercie grace and large benefites from gods hands doth so alienat the mynd of God from them that he beareth to them no maner of loue till they turn to him by repentance The contrarie hereof we hold and affirme not fearing to auowe that repentance as it is ioyned with faith which is the fre gift of God so is it the effect of gods coÌ„stant loue toward them and no cause of the same And for the more ample declaration
the expressed image of his substance is greater then euer was Adam so is his power of greater vertue to saue the elect then Adams impotencie was to bring damnation vpon all Where ye ask if our election be surer now after the transgression then afore the transgression I answere the assurance and firmitie of our election was alwaies and at all times one For when we stode in Adam as ye alledge yet were we elected in Christ ▪ and when we fel in Adam then did our election burst for the and appere Ye be neuer able to proue that Cain was elected to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus for God loked not to Cain nor yet to his sacrifice as that he did to Abel And why because as the Apostle affirmeth the one offered in faith and the other without faith Remembre I pray you your former reason there is none say you elected without faith but Cain was without faith euen before he did kil or hate his brother therefor by your owne reason he was not in y e election no not euen before he hated I do not approue this argument but yet your former reason standing true it is inuincible Moises saieth not that God promised dominion to Cain ouer his lustes but saieth vnto thee shal his appetites or lustes be thow shall beare dominion ouer him which is not spoken of sinne but of Abel who as he was the yōger so was he appoīted to be subiect to Cain and to serue him and therefor most vniustly did he hate him It is the same phrase that before was spoken of the woman concerning her subiection to man Such as haue but mean knowledge in the hebrew text know well that bothe these articles be of the masculin gendre the substātiue which signifieth sinne in that place is of y e feminin gēdre therefor wil not y t proprietie of the tongue suffer y t dominion promised be referred to sinne where blasphemously ye aske if god gaue Cain no power to subdue his lust who was thē y e author of his sinne I answer Cain him self for he was not lyke to a dead and vnsensible sworde as ye adduce the similitude but he was a reasonable instrumēt infected by the venom of Satā from the whiche he not being purged could do nothing but serue the deuil and his owne lustes against gods expressed will and commandement I haue before proued taht God is the cause of no mās damnation but sinne in which they are fallen is the very cause which all reprobates do find in them selues Touching the fidelitie of God who suffereth none of his to be tempted aboue their strength it is onely true of Gods elect to whom it is plaine that Paul there speaketh for albeit that amonges the Corinthians there were many reprobates yet doth Paul addresse his style as it were to the elect Church of God calling them his beloued willing them to flie from idolatrie and speaking to them as vnto men indued with wisdome c. And therefore must ye first proue that Cain had as great testimonie of God that he was his elect as the Corinthians had of Paule y t they were beloued and elected in Christ before that ye can make this place to serue for him for albeit he did aduertise him what was his duetie to do yet doth it not thereof follow that he gaue him power to obey his will reueled nether yet power to resist all tentation To Pharao he did no les make manifest his will then that he did to Cain and yet of him he did before pronounce that he should not heare nor obey the voice of Moises I do not denie but that he stubbornly foresooke the counsell of God whiche mercifully called him But why did he and do all reprobate forsaik it we haue oft before declared to witt because the sede of God abideth not in them What was the benediction giuen after the floode vnto Noah and to his sonnes the holie Gost doth not conceale to witt multiplication preseruation and the restitutiō of all thinges as touching the order of nature like as they were before that vastation by reason of the waters which had so long continued In that place is no mention made of election to life euerlasting in Christ Iesus and therefor your connexion that Ham was not reprobat when he was blessed of God is foolishe for albeit that none can be both blessed and cursed loued and hated all at once in that degre of loue or of hatered w c God frely beareth in Christ to his elect and most iustlie hateth the reprobate for the causes knowen to his visdom yet in an other sort it is no repugnancie to say that God both blesseth and loueth in bestowing tempoall benedictions vpon such as in his eternall counsell he hath reiected and therefor hateth As it is no repugnancie to say that God bothe blesseth and loueth his elect children euen when most seruerely he doth chasten and punishe them To all y t which ye adduce of the Israelites my former answers may suffice for you be neuer able to proue that any of thē which was chosen to lief euerlasting did fall into death eternall It nothing hurt y ◠saluation of Moises albeit his bodie fell in the wildernes That place of Paule proueth not that all the Israelites which was called from Egypt were within gods holie election to lief euerlasting in Christ Iesus but doth proue y t they were all externally called and y t they did all cōmunicat with those externall signes and sacremēts w c did signifie represent spirituall thinges but he doth not affirm y t all did receaue y e spiritual and inward graces of the holie Gost. The mynd of the Apostle is plaine ynough in y t place to such as willingly list not blynd them selues For he exhorteth the Corinthians not to think it sufficient that they did commuicat with the sacramentes of Christ Iesus except that a godlie lief vnfeined obediēce to gods will reueled should be ioyned with the same for otherwise the same should happen vnto them that happened to the Israelites And therefor he saieth let him that standeth take hede lest he fall which is nothīg contrarie to our doctryne nether yet is our doctrine in any iote repugnant to y e holie Gost. for we did neuer denie but y t many who before mē had a faire glister of holynes yea which thoght thē selues sure in their own fantasie hath taken horrible falles bothe of one sort of y e other And vnto all mē we cry no les then you do that they tēpt them selues y t they take hede lest by slothfulnes they fall but y t any y t standeth in Christ Iesus and in the eternall counsale of God can so fall that finally he perishe that we cōstantly denie Behold how smothly God conducteth our tossed bote through the raiging waues of your furious argumentes The fall of the
shall deceaue or persuade him And the lord said wherunto he said I shall passe out be alieng Prophet in the mouthes of all his Prophetes he said therfor thou shal deceaue him thou shalt brâ—g it to passe goo forth therfor do eueÌ„ so And lo God hath giueÌ„ a lieÌ„g spirit in the mouthes of al these Prophetes the lord hath spoken euill vpoÌ„ the. If to make a publique proclamation to call for one to deceaue to send him forth to giue him power to do the same be onely a simple permission a thing which God suffereth against his will lett the indifferent man iudge I think that no maÌ„ will deny the incest of Absalome openly committed not onely to be sinne but also to be so execrable detestable a facte that nature it self be it neuer so corrupt must nedes abhorre it and yet I pray you what saith God that he wil do in that be half let the Prophet witnes Thus sayeth the Lord God saieth NathaÌ„ behold I shall rayse euill against the forthe of thine own howse and I shall take thy wyues and giue theÌ„ to thy neighbour who shal slepe with them in the sunne Thou did est y t facte secretely but I shall do this thiÌ„g opeÌ„ly before all Israel let y e vehemeÌ„cie of y e words w c here be spoken be noted be iudges your selues whether your interpretation be tollerable he saieth not I shal suffer euil to come vpon the but plainly he saieth I shal raise vp euil against the. And therwith not content he saieth I shall take thy wyues and to put the mater out of all controuersie he addeth aÌ„d I shal giue theÌ„ to thy neighbour yea and that will I do openly If to raise vp to giue to do be to permitt onely the thing which he will not we must confesse our selues ignorant of the phrases of the holie Gost. this same might I proue by Iob by Nabuchadnezer by Salmanasar by Syrus aÌ„d diuers others which for breuities saik I passe ouer one I will recite w c I trust shal be so plaine that the deuill him self by no subtilitie shal be able to obscure the light of y e trueth Was there euer any facte since the begining more wicked if the instrumeÌ„tes shal be coÌ„sidered as was the cruell and ignominiouse death of the Sonne of God And yet what doeth the holie Gost attribut to God in that case him saieth Peter beiÌ„g crucified did you kill after that you had taken him by the haÌ„des of y e wicked men being giuen by the appointed couÌ„sell fore knowledge of God And after they haue verely coÌ„uened agaiÌ„st thy holie SoÌ„ne Iesus whoÌ„ thou hast anointed Herode together PoÌ„tius Pilate w t y e Gentiles together y e people of Israell to do what so euer thy hand thy cousell haue decreed to be doÌ„ne Aduise well what ye wil answer y e wordes are plaine so plaine y t you caÌ„ not auoide the. for he that sayeth the wicked meÌ„ did what so euer God did foresee before dotermined yea what his hand â–ª y t is his power and couÌ„sell y t he had before decreed to be donne meaneth a thing of more greater importaÌ„ce theÌ„ he y t saieth they did what God permitted and suffered to be donne Consider forther y t you haue not to do w t men as w t Augustine Caluine and vs whome you call careles libertines but w t the holie Gost speaking in Peter in the hole Church of Ierusalem yea speaking in the hole scripptures for if not to spare his Sonne but to giue him to y e deathe for vs to cause our sinnes to make warre agaiÌ„st him to punishe hiÌ„ for y e same in suche sorte y t of al men he was most contemptible for a season if I say to giue to death to strike to wound punish be actions then did not God onely suffer his Sonne to die to be wouÌ„ded to be smytten to be punished without any will that any such thing should come to passe but he in his eternall counsell appointed the time the place the persons wheÌ„ where and by whome he should suffer y e same for of loue he gaue him to suffer the trewe death that we by him might receaue life the time could not be changed the cuppe which the father had giuen him he must nedes drinck as in the figures was foreshad owed and by his own people and geÌ„tiles as the Prophetes and Dauid had before spokeÌ„ If in gods counsell gods gift gods hand and eternall purpose before decreinge all things to come to passe in the deathe of his Sonne ye can se nothing but a bare simple permission I can not cease to affirme that as by falsifying such plaine scriptures you labor to take from the Churche of God their most singuler coÌ„fort left to vs in Christes death so do you walk in darknes in y â— same ye shall perishe except spedely you repeÌ„t Howe one the same work in so far as it procedeth from God is most iust most profitable most mercifull and yet as it procedeth from y e instruments most profane most wicked damnable to theÌ„ selues most cruell I haue abouÌ„dantly declared and after as occasion shal be offered shall touch by gods grace so much as may instructe the sobre mynd if it be ignorant and also to put sileÌ„ce to your venemous mouthes be they neuer so impudeÌ„t Because the scriptures which you heape together be either plainely repugning to your error orels make nothing for probation of the same I will so shortly as I caÌ„ go through them onely noting wherin you abuse the wordes and mynd of the holie Gost. The wordes of our master spokeÌ„ in the 24 chapter of Mathewes Gospell serue nothing for your purpose for in that place our Sauiour Christ Iesus speaketh as he that is the messinger of his heaueÌ„lie father aÌ„d declareth that the Iewes obstinatly euen from their original had resisted God speakiÌ„g by his patriarks prophets of old now last by his Sonne he neither speaketh nor meaneth what wil God had to saue his elect neither yet y t will w c he had to gather seperate theÌ„ froÌ„ v â— world but onely as Moises and Elias had before spoke declareth what fidelitie diligence God had vsed in the generall election vocation of that people from time to time and yet what had bene their obstinate rebellion vnthankfull defection from him by the which they killed the Prophetes aÌ„d should kill his Sonne sent of God to call them from iniquitie What hath this to do I say with that will by the which God in his eternall counsel hath made diuisioÌ„ betwext the electe the reprobate If ye dare say that Christe in that place meaneth in that he wold haue gathered those murtherers and sonnes of murtherers as he doth witnes he doth gather his chosen flock him self
nomber Israell I answer as the one place repugneth nothing to the other so doeth it not explaine the other in such seÌ„se as ye adduce for it repugneth not to say that God man aÌ„d the deuil work in one fact actioÌ„ as in the histories of Iob Achab Semei and Pharao is manifest God for iust causes giueth his commandement and power to sathan as to his instrumeÌ„t be he neuer so wicked to do what in his eternal cousel was before decreed Sathan of a wicked and rebellious mynd chooseth such instrumentes and vseth such meanes as God likwies hath appointed Men in al wicked actions of their fre and voluntarie motion do folow their corrupt and wicked affections in declaring their pride vanitie malice or crueltie which wicked affections in so farre as they are wicked we confesse that God will not for he can will no iniquitie but yet that his eternal almightie power shall be iudged so ydle that it doeth nothing in such actions but onely suffer we can not admitte for such reasons as we haue before alledged wher that we did examine the differeÌ„ce betwext gods wil and his permission You retein your old nature and iustly I might say the nature of the deuill most maliciously affirming vs to say that what so euer God permitteth he willeth it absoluteâ—â— and so that absolutely he willeth all wickdâ—â—ces Which saying as ye be neuer able to proue vpon vs so do we coÌ„fesse it not onely erroneous but also so blasphemous that who so euer dare pronounce or affirme the same deserueth death for we most constantly in word and writing affirme absolutley God willeth no iniquitie for all his workes in so far as they procede frome his wisedom aÌ„d infinite goodnes are holie and iust and therfor do we make God author of no sinne which onely procedeth frome the fountaines that be corrupted that is from the deuil and frome man as in diuers places most euidently we haue declared Because I do perceaue that greatly ye delyte in your prignaÌ„t wittes I will not say foolish vanitie I will recicite your hole wordes by the which ye wold seme to proue contrarietie in God except that we wold grante a difference betwext gods will and his permission I say saieth the author of your book to vs that ye are the Prophetes if the deuill which teach such filâ—hie doctrine and ye say be the Prophetes of God Now of necessitie one of vs lieth for if ye be the Propheâ—es of God I lie And if ye be the Prophetes of the deuil ye lie And if God will vs to say the trueth he will not that we lie for then he should will two contraries which is impossible yet one of vs lie which must be by permission and suffering of God and not by his will whereof it foloweâ—h that there is difference betwext the suffering and the will of God It appereth that in this description of persons in which ye oppose your selues to vs ye wold more declare what is your iudgement and opinion of vs and what ye wold that we should be estemed of others then that ye greatly do trauale to proue any contrarietie in gods wil by the same for his eternall wisedom seeth the meanes how that his commandement and his will are not contrarious the one to the other albeit that he command one thing and yet for iust causes will wicked men to do the contrary which kinde of coÌ„trarietie and repugnance doeth so blind your eyes that you can not se how God caÌ„ coÌ„mand all men to speak trueth and yet for iust causes before sene and determined in his counsell that he wil y e deuil aÌ„d his slaues to delite in lies Albeit I say that the apperance of this contrarietie blinde you yet will not gods trueth cease of be trueth neither will the libertie of his eternall Godhead be broght into bondage to your corrupt iudgement His commandement and his will do nether debate nether fight betwext them selues but do agree in all thinges euen as do his mercie his iustice his wisedom and his power albeit oftener it is that his iustice doth punish such as vpon whom he hath determined to haue mercie Euen so he commandeth men to obeye his commandementes whom he not onely foresaw to be disobedieÌ„t but for most iust causes willeth his glory to appere euen in their vnrighteousnes lies And this he doth without all contrarietie in his godly will to the full knowledge wherof albeit ye can not atteine yet more profitable it were for you to be ignorant of such thinges as God reserueth to be reueled in the time appointed in his eternall counsell then thus without all reuerence and feare to trouble your foolish braines in deuising such absurdities as may seme to oppugne gods eternall veritie which in the ende wâ—l triumphe to your destruction â–ª shame and confusion if obstinatly you procede as you haue begonne For albeit that he loueth trueth and hateth lies and albeit that he commandeth man to speak the trueth and forbiddeth man to beare fals witnes yet feareth he not to giue a commandement to that wicked spirite to go forth to be a lieng spiritte in the mouthes of all Achabes fals prophetes Yea forther he gaue him power to worke that in the fals prophetes which he forbiddeth all men to do For he commandeth that no man shall deceaue an other and yet giueth he power to the deuill to be a lieng spiritte in the mouthes of the fals prophetes and to them he giueth power to deceaue Achab. If ye list to lay contraritie to the charge of God prepare your winges and with Nabuchadnezer of Babylon saye we will passe vp to the heauens and shall establish our seates aboue the sterres of God we shall passe vp vpoÌ„ the hight of the clowdes and we shall be like to the most highest yea if thus ye will call his secrete counsels to examination and triall ye must be iudges and superiors to him Thus iustly I might illude aÌ„d skoffe y o r reasoÌ„s as vanities most vnworthie to be answered But yet hauiÌ„g respecte to the simple I wil gather your argument and forme it as strongly as your selues can and I will answere so much of the same as ye think nable to be answered your argument is this God can not will two contraries but to speake the 〈◊〉 aÌ„d to lie are contraries Therfor he can not will them both But he permitteth men to lie and willeth them to speake the trueth There is therfor a difference betwene the will and the permission God can not will two coÌ„traries True it is in him selfe in one respecte and for one purpose he who is author of coÌ„cord can not will contrarietie but in consideration of his creatures for diuers respectes and sundrie purposes thiÌ„ges be not coÌ„traries the one to y e other which to our iudgementes haue apperance of contrarietie If you be so wel sene in your artes as some of
you wold affirme y t gods good wil pleasure may change and y t is to deny his Godhead But I will burden you no further then ye shall plainely confesse I onely put you in minde that y e holy Gost vseth no such phrase You procede saing Nether is it his pleasure aÌ„d will that ether pharaâ— Semei or any other should sinne and come to destruction Before we haue confessed y t iniquitie and sinne is so odious before God y t in it can his goodnes neuer delyte nether yet can he haue pleasure in the destruction of any creature hauing respect to y e punishment onely But seing y t gods glorie must nedes shyne in all his creatures yea euen in y e perpetuall damnation of sathan torment of the reprobate why shal not he wil and take pleasure y t so it come to passe Albeit your phrenetique braines can not comprehend y e brightnes therof yet wil he one day declare y t al his workes are wroght in iustice wisedom and equitie I thinke you will not deny but that pharao Semei Iudas and others came to destruction like as in the end shall all reprobate do Then do I aske if God at no time for no purpose respect nor end did so will how then came their destruction to passe By sinne say you that we denie not but yet the questioÌ„ is not answered For continually we demand if in God there was not power ether to haue impeded their sinne or yet after their sinne to haue called them to repentance if it had so pleased his eternal wisedom and goodnes Consider your foly and giue glorie to God who doth what so euer he will in heauen and in earth But now to that which foloweth For he will the death of no creature but will all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth How violeÌ„tly you wrest the wordes of the Prophet and of the Apostle shall shortly appere after I haue reasoned a litle with you how these your propositions do agree with that which goeth before Ye haue affirmed that God is ready to mercie and slow to wrath in which wordes you â—hew and cofesse that in the God head there is readines to â—hew mercy and also that there is a iustice w c must execute wrath vpoÌ„ the disobedient And so in the nature of y e God head ye cofesse mercy ad iustice But here you say that God will the death of no creature but that he will all men to be saued which last wordes being vnderstand as ye do vrge them must destroy the former nature of God take awaye his iustice For if he absolutely will the death of no creature then will he no punishment to folowe sinne And if he will no punishmeÌ„t then willeth he his iustice to cease and so coÌ„sequently must one of the properties of his godlie nature cease Studie for an answere to make your former wordes and latter wordes better agree orels ye wil be compelled to coÌ„fesse that God for som respect willeth both death and damnation to come vpon some creatures Further if God willeth all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth and yet many do perâ—sh in ignoraÌ„ce and shal be condemned as Christ Iesus doth pronounce then must it ether folow that gods will is mutable and so he vnconstant and not at all times like to him self or els that he is not omnipotent For if God at the first creation of man wold all men to be saued as ye alledge then wold I know when this will was changed After that man had offended say you Then yet haue I obteined that in gods will there was mutabilitie For after sinne he wold and by his sentence pronounced that Adam and his posteritie should suffer the corporall death yea and that the sede of the serpent should haue the head broken downe by the which is ment the spirituall death which nether of both as you affirme did God will before If you reply gods will towardes the saluation of all mankind did remaine the same after sinne which was before for a generall promes of deliuerance was made by the womans sede that was promised I haue before plainely proued that difference most manifest betwext y â— two sedes was made in that promes But admitting that the promes had bene generall so that the will of God this day remaineth the same which ye alledge it to be to witt that he willeth y e death of no sinner but that he willeth al men to be saued Can you deny but that a separation and diuision of the shepe from the goates of the elect from the reprobate shal be made at the glorious commiÌ„g of y e Lord Iesus Shall not these most ioyfull wordes be said vnto theÌ„ y t shall stand vpon the right hand Come ye the blessed of my father possesse the kingdome which was prepared for you from the beginning And shall not this most fearefull sentence be pronounced and executed against the other Depart ye cursed go to the fire prepared for the deuill and for his angels Shall the Sonne of God in pronouncing senteÌ„ce do any thing that day repugning to the will of his heauenly Father I think you will not so affirme Then if gods will in the day of iudgement shal be that many shal be adiudged to tormeÌ„t perpetual and his will in the creation of man was and this day yet remaineth that all men shal be saued then of necessitie it doth folow that gods will shall change If you say that death and damnation cometh not by gods will but by the sinne and vnbelief of man you haue releued your self nothing for if death be one thing and life be an other damnation one thing and saluation an other TheÌ„ if God this day will all men to be saued and so to haue life and yet that day he shall will many to be damned to torment perpetuall what causes so euer you alledge I shall obteine one of two to witte that ether gods will is and may be mutable orels that there is a power superior to his maiestie and godly will For if willingly he shall damne those whom before he wold and had determined to saue then is his will and determination changed And if he shall damne those vnwillingly whoÌ„ willingly he wold haue saued then is he not omnipotent Consider now vpon whom falleth the snowe and who do cast them selues in greatest absurdities Now it resteth to declare how violently ye wrest the wordes of the Prophet of the Apostle The Prophete speaking in the personne of God saith I will not the death of a sinner but rather that he conuert and liue And the Apostle affirmeth that God will all men to be saued and to come to the knowledge of the trueth Hereupon ye conclude God will the death of no creature this is your first violence which you do to the text For the Prophet
all traitours they are all I say traitours euery brother deceaueth another All men contemne me all men hold me in execration If these and other lyke places shal be vnderstand so vniuersaly as they appere to be spoken then must we be compelled to say that no true fearer of God remayned in Ierusalem when the Prophetes did preach but that all were blood thirstie all auaricious all idolaters and all dumme dogges the contrarie wherof is euidently declared For Isai had the children whom the Lord had giuen vnto him who albeit they were holden as monsters amonge men yet did they patientlye abide the Lord. Ieremie had Baruch his faithfull scribe not withstaÌ„ding his weakenes and infirmitie Abedmelech feared the Lord was fauourable to the Prophete and therefore saued he his soule for a praye and was deliuered from that day of vengeance And therefore these vniuersall sentences must also be restreyned and kept within their own boundes like as these All haue left me all seke the thinges that apperteine vnto them selues and not those thinges that be of God Which senteÌ„ces except they be restreined we shall condemne the dearest children of God who in Paules daies did valiaÌ„tly fight against the prince of this world These examples of the one sorte of the other I haue adduced to lette the simple vnderstand that such generall sentences of necessitie must be so restreined that difference may be kept betwext the elect and the reprobate For els we shall do nothing in explaning scriptures but confound light with darcknes For if the wordes of our Master Christe Iesus saying All shal be taught of God shal be so generally vnderstaÌ„d that no exception be admitted then of necessitie it is that all men and euery persone shall come to the true knowledge of Christe Iesus â–ª for of that knowledge doth he speake in that place But the contrarie thereof is moste euident euen by Christe Iesus his owne wordes who putteth a plaine difference betwext them that be giuen to him by his father and betwext them that be not giuen But now let vs briefly consider what sinners they are whose death God will not but rather hat they conuert lyue Sainct Ihon in his Epistle saith If we say we haue no sinne we deceaue our selues the veritie is not in vs. If we coÌ„fesse our sinnes he is faithfull iust to remitte to vs our sinnes and to clense vs from all vnrighteousnes c. And after Who soeuer commiteth sinne transgresseth also y â— law for sinne is the transgression of the law And ye know y t he is reueled to take away our sinnes and in him is no sinne As many as byde in him y t is in Chriiste Iesus sin not who soeuer sinneth hath not sene him nether hath knoweÌ„ him c. He y t coÌ„mitteth sinne is of the deuill for the deuil sinneth froÌ„ y e beginning c. who soeuer is borne of God committeh not sinne for his sede abideth in him nether can he sinne because he is borne of God Of w c wordes it is euideÌ„t y t there be two sortes of sinners the one be they who mourne lameÌ„t and bewaile their owne wretchednes and miserie vnfainedly before God coÌ„fessing not onely that their hole nature is sinfull and corrupt but also y t dailie they so offend y e Maiestie of their God y t most iustly they deserue the tormentes of hell if Christes iustice Christes mediation w c by faith they embrase should not deliuer them from the wrath to come To these is not sinne imputed for y e blood of Christe purgeth them from all sinne his aduocation and intercession maketh to theÌ„ an enterance to the throne of their fathers grace To theÌ„ is giuen the spirit of sanctification w c from time to time as it reueleth their sinnes so doth it mortifie purge the same Not that euer in this life gods elect hath bene are or shal be so cleane purged from sinne y t the flesh lusteth not against the spirit as some times affirmed the Pellagians those that then were called Cathari that is cleane purged and now also do the Anabaptistes renew the same most pestilent error by the which Christ Iesus his iustice his office and perpetuall mediation is vtterly destroyed in such sort I saye are not gods childreÌ„ purged in this life that nether they fele sinne nether yet the motioÌ„s entisemeÌ„tes of the same But they are so purged y â— sinne raigneth not in their mortall bodies for the sede of God which is the vertue power efficacie and operation of his holie spirite suffereth them not to delyte in sinne but as they are first called from darcknes to light froÌ„ the bondage of sathan to the libertie of gods children so when they sinne as there is none that sinneth not they are called againe by true repentance to their former societie and felowship with Christe Iesus The death of such sinners did God neuer will nether yet can he will for from all eternitie they were his elect childreÌ„ whom he gaue to his deare Sonne to be his enheritaÌ„ce whom the Sonne receaued into his protection and sauegard to whome he hath manifested and to the ende shall manifest him selfe and the louing kindes of his heauenlie father In whose heartes he writeth the law of God and maketh them to walke in his commandementes â—uer thirsting to a further and more perfect iustice then they find within them selues by reason of their corruption The death I say of those sinners God will not but he will that they repent and liue The Apostle saint Peter saith The Lord that hath promised is not slow but he is long suffering toward vs while that he will none to perish but will receaue all to repentaÌ„ce The Apostle here meaneth not y t al without exception shal be receaued to life by true repentance but y t the cause why God so long deferreth as it were y e extreme iudgement is y â— the electnomber of gods children may be complete as answere was giuen to those y â— cried vnder the aulter to be reuenged vpon the tyrannes that dwell on the earth of these his elect children God will none to perish as before is said But there is an nother sort of sinners farre different from these For nether are they displeased w t theÌ„ selues nether yet hate they iniquitie but against gods expresse coÌ„mandementes furiously they runne w t Cain to murther the innocent with Pharao to oppresse the people of God with Iudas to betray the knowen and professed veritie and finally so delyte they in all filthines impietie that they can not repent The eyes of such be blinded their heartes are hardened they are giuen ouer in to a reprobate minde And for theÌ„ doth not Christe Iesus pray and therefore they can do nothing but headlonges runne from euill to worse as the deuill to whose tyranny they are committed doth driue them till finally they come