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A20303 A sparing restraint, of many lauishe vntruthes, which M. Doctor Harding do the chalenge, in the first article of my Lorde of Sarisburies replie. By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie. With an answere vnto that long, and vncourteous epistle, entituled to M. Juel, and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Dering, Edward, 1540?-1576. 1568 (1568) STC 6725; ESTC S108150 240,683 364

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Apostle commeth iudgement Here is no colour of shift least except they wil say after death that is when the generall daie of iudgement shall bée And if this might serue then had they somewhat to saye But S. Iohn hath preuented such wrestinge of scriptures After death as he teacheth is immediatly as soone as we be with God for this he writeth Blessed ar the deade which dye in the Lorde from henceforth saith the spirit they rest from their labour No labour abideth any more for them after death immediatlye they are receiued into ioy and their workes doe follow them And this present ioy of the godlye is likewyse specified where the same Apostle writeth that an hundred fourty and foure thousand did stande with the lambe in y e mount Sion meaning the elect which wer w t Christ in his kingdome An hundreth such other places there are in the scripture which testifie of our estate after death and do quite ouerthrowe the Popes purgatory Nowe for the better contentation of the Reader it were worth the labour to answere to al those places of the scripture in which they make so many blinde gesses at purgatory The places are Math. 5.26 c. 12.32 c. 18 34. Luc. 12.59.16.19 l. Co. 3.15 Phil. 2.10 Apo. 5.15 But read these places who list in the feare of God and true desire of knowledge he can by no imaginations haue one gesse at purgatory and yet for the establishing of such a doctrine it had bene requisite they could haue shewed euen the name for the interpretation of other men be they neuer so olde We may saye with the Apostle Euery man aboundeth in his own vnderstanding but no man knoweth the thinges that are Gods saue God alone and his woorde if we will not be deceiued must be our onelye guider But they haue one place 2. Mach. 12.44 in plaine words that it is good to pray for the dead if that booke be of able autority We rede likewise of one Razias an Elder of Ierusalem which first ran vpon his own sworde and when he missed of his stroke he ranne to the top of the wall and threwe him selfe downe among the multitude and yet hauing life in him went to the top of an highe rocke and pulled out his owne bowels and threwe them among the enimies and for this doing he is commended So by the authoritye of the same booke a man maye kill himselfe which Maister Harding him selfe I trowe will not constantly affirme yet this being scripture it might not be doubted Againe the same author saith If I haue done well and as the story requireth it is the thing that I desired But if I haue spoken slenderly and basely it is that I coulde These Iffes and Andes are not of that spirit which hath written the scriptures Thus doubting of his own ability besemeth not the holy ghost Beside this the gréeke in the same place is so corrupt that scarce any sense coulde be made of it And Ioseph ben Gorion out of whom that story semeth to be gathered in the same place doth quite leaue out this praying for the dead But it maye be that in those dayes some ignoraunt Iewes vpon an vnwyse deuotion did thinke it good to praye for the deade and likewise to praye againe vnto them that they would helpe vs. Which if it were so by such meanes this place might come into the Machab. And that some did thinke thus thoughe they were alwayes otherwyse instructed it appereth by one manifest place which is read in Philo Iudeus where he writeth the death of Debora who made a godly exhortatiō to hir people before she dyed For afterward they should finde no repentaunce There some made aunswere vnto hir Ecce nunc mater moreris ora itaque pro nobis post recessum tuum erit anima tua memor nostri in sempiternum Praye for vs after thy departure and let thy soule be mindefull of vs for euer To whom Debora maketh aunswere Adhuc viuens homo potest orare et pro se pro filijs suis post finē autem non poterit exorare nec memor esse alicuius yet while a man is liuing he may pray for him selfe and for his children but whan he is deade he can neyther intreate nor be mindeful of any And it followeth your similitude then shal be like the starres of heauen which are now manifest in you Hereby we sée what iudgement the common people mighte haue in such matters And yet howe the godly did otherwise instruct them reade this place thou shalt finde it so plaine that no wrangling may shift it of but nedes we must confesse that it teacheth vs that we ought neither to praye vnto saintes to help vs neyther yet agayne can we helpe them when they be gone Wherby it appeareth what manner of archer Maister Harding hath ben that could not shoote at so plaine a marke But he did shoote at his own dreames and so he lighted on Purgatorie Yet there follow a great many of markes at the which M. Hardyng could neuer shoote home The first is that the masse and our Communion is one wyth that marke sayth he I was neuer acquaynted Hys loose without doubt is very ill or he shooteth to low a compasse or else he draweth not close For M. Stapleton that shooteth with the same bow and arrowes hitteth this marke euen at the first The Masse and the Communion saith he duelye ministred is all one and it is folly to thinke any contradiction betwéene the Communion and the Masse Thus it appeareth M. Harding is a verye wrangler that wyll not shoote at that marke which his owne fellowes finde An other marke that M. Harding could neuer shoote at is this that Eucharistia doth signifie not the Sacrament but common bread I maruail he could neuer shoote at this marke For sith he began first that babling aunswere to M. Iuels learned Challenge he hath alwaye bene hobbing among those marks wher this is one though he neuer shot at the selfe same yet hath he seldome shot but at such like For it is a marke of slaundering and a marke of lying at whych marke as well in this Reioynder as other where M. Harding most commonly doth shoote very nere I neuer said saith he that Eucharistia was common breade but the sacrament This marke I could neuer sée In déede no maruail for who can well sée the thing that is not But you father this saying vpon Maister Iuell which reporte is all togither vntrue and slaunderous and in shootinge at this marke you drawe maruailous cleane and haue good deliuery be it prickes or rouers you haue measured the ground so oft that you knowe what to shoote But I pray you M. Harding where sayth M. Iuell thus What be his woordes Wher are they to be foūd Thinke you notwithstanding your oft vntrue demeanour that you can discredite your aduersary vpon your bare word The
¶ A SPARING Restraint of many lauishe Vntruthes which M. Doctor Harding dothe chalenge in the first Article of my Lorde of Sarisburies Replie By Edward Dering student in Diuinitie With an answere vnto that long and vncourteous Epistle entituled to M. Iuel and set before M. Hardings Reioinder Hieremie xxiij ¶ The Prophet that hath a dreame let him tell a dreame and he that hath my worde let him speake my worde faithfully What is chaffe to the wheat saith the Lorde ¶ Imprinted at London by Henry Denham for Humfrey Toy dwelling in Poules Church yarde at the signe of the Helmet ¶ TO THE RIGHT worshipfull Maister Thomas Wotton Esquire Edvvard Dering vvisheth all health and peace in CHRIST● AS ofte as I doe consider the estate of man here placed to accomplishe his appointed pilgrimage I remember the saying of the rightuous IO● that mannes life is a wa●fare vpon the earth But when I further see what maner of fight we haue what enimies to encounter with vs howe great of force how cankred of will how subtile in deuise how continuall in assault on the other side how weak we be of our selues ▪ I remember the saying of our sanioure Christ that if it were possible the very electe should be deceiued There is no condition without his enimie no calling without temptation no estate sure The world deceiueth those who will not see that the worlde doth pearishe The fleshe defileth other that think filthinesse to be pleasure and make vnclennesse their felicitie And where these two can not bring forth the shamelesse breache of the law of God there rageth that Dragon and olde Serpent that seducer of the world that li●r and father of lyes and he soweth cockle among good corne superstition and heresie among the seedes of obedience and good b●hauiour where of it cometh that suche as will not be partakers with SODOME and GOMORRA nor haue felowship with those rotten woundes and stinking sores that make the blaspheming of Gods holy name their honoure yet they should be drowned in wicked doctrine that by some meanes their saluation might be hindred This estate of man so muche the more to be lamented how much the lesse it is regarded would make a Christian minister to muse muche and oftentimes howe he might be a frutefull labourer in Gods vineyarde For sith the children of wrathe doe not cease to walke disobediently and with al care and studie some in example of euill life some in profession of vngodly doctrine doe allure and entice other to walke with them in their open and wide iourney of euerlasting wretchednesse how shall not the children of light according as euery one hath receiued giftes so apply their endeuoure that godlinesse and good religion might call againe the lost children vnto the narow way of euerlasting happinesse The latter dayes are come and impietie dothe abound iniquitie hath so spredde hir selfe that she is plentifull bothe in worde and deede and that not in secrecie only and in priuate assemblies but in the face of the worlde and in open wryting while some preferre the present state before eternall life other delite more in dreames than in the worde of God It behoueth therefore euery true christian in all places to rebuke sinne to set forthe Gods glory in open meetings and to maintaine his worde before the enimie knowing that his rewarde is the saluation of his owne soule and his place is prepared in the kingdome of God his father From this duety neither King nor Queene Duke nor Earle honourable nor other are exempt but euery one as he is higher in dignitie so his accompt is the greater in the day of iudgement It helpeth not the lay man to say he is no minister Where the cause is Gods we are all a chosen generation and a royall priesthode an holy nation and a peculiar people to shew forth his vertue that hath called vs out of darknesse into his maruellous light If we will not walke in this light we abide in darkenesse and in the shadow of death If we will not shew forthe his vertue we are not his chosen generation nor his peculiar people If we haue not his name wrytten in our foreheade we shall not stand among the electe with the Lambe in Mount Syon If we haue not the pleasant smel of life vnto life we haue not Gods gosple engrafted in vs. As many as be Christians haue giuen their faith vnto Christ in their baptisme vnder the witnesse of a great many They haue forsaken the flesh the world and the deuil If they wil now be at league with the sinner and at agrement with the euill doer they haue broken their first promise and they are founde vnfaithfull And for their faith thus violate giuen vnto the immortall God God againe will breake with them his couenaunt of mercie if in time they repent not This made me right worshipfull sir according to the talent which God hath giuen me so in these euill dayes to apply my laboure not doubting but that little light with which he hath endued me by his free mercy may shine through the cloudes and mistes of errour which the prince of this darknesse hath blowne abroade God turne their hearts that builde vpon his euill foundations and God encrease their number that be setters vp of vertue and zealous in the house of the Lord. And of this number bicause God hath made you one of good will desirous and of authority able to defend the profession of a christian man I could not but chuse your worship vnder whose name my little labor should appeare both for a testimonie vnto all men that you are one in whome your countrey doth reioyce and a prouocation vnto other that by your example they might learn to liue Ther be diuers that loue the worde of God and in common talke make a glorious profession but the world wil not let them go vprightly vnto the truth of the gosple There be other whose conuersation is not amisse and in ciuil behauior giue good exāple but they be so drowned in error that their estate is very lamentable they be the little flock and few in nūber that do ioyne vertue and good religion togither It is hard and laborous to fleshe and bloud and therfore we turne vs frō it The way is narow wher they are both coupled therfore few do finde it Frō the princes priuie chāber vnto the pore cottage they haue rare dwelling It would make a Christian heart to bleede to consider duely the maners of eche estate The scarlet and purple garmēts do hide and couer vnchast and vnpure bodies ▪ The ornaments of gold and siluer are had to beutifie most horrible othes good learning and wisdome are abused to al deceit and craftinesse Simplicitie and plainenesse is a cloke of many subtile cogitations Neede and pouertie are common dwelling places of muche dissolute life Truthe is well nigh forsaken and faith is almost perished from the face of the