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A09061 An ansvvere to the fifth part of Reportes lately set forth by Syr Edvvard Cooke Knight, the Kinges Attorney generall Concerning the ancient & moderne municipall lawes of England, vvhich do apperteyne to spirituall power & iurisdiction. By occasion vvherof, & of the principall question set dovvne in the sequent page, there is laid forth an euident, plaine, & perspicuous demonstration of the continuance of Catholicke religion in England, from our first Kings christened, vnto these dayes. By a Catholicke deuyne. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1606 (1606) STC 19352; ESTC S114058 393,956 513

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speciall Embassadours the particular confidence that sundrie Popes had with him as may appeare by their letters vnto him his sending to Rome vpon the yeare 1123. VVilliam newlie elected Archbishop of Canterbury and Thurstyn of Yorke to receiue their confirmation and palls there for more honour and deuotion of the place and Sea though otherwise hee might haue procured the same to haue been sent to England as eight years before he did vnto Raphe Bishop of Canterbury as Florentius declareth 21. And two years after this againe to wit 1125. in which yeare the foresaid Emperour Henry died that had kept so much stir about inuestitures there was a Synod celebrated in the Church of VVestminster by order of Pope Honorius his legat Cardinall Iohannes de Crema being present President therof wherin diuers Canons were decreed and in the third That no Clergie man should receiue anie benefice at the hands of aelaie-man c. without the approbation of his Bishop and if bee did the donation should be void Which the King tooke not to bee against himself or anie way repined at that Councell gathered by the Popes authoritie neither at this Decree therof that might concerne both him his Which well declareth the pietie of his minde and what his iudgment was of his owne Ecclesiasticall authoritie deriued from his Crowne And now let vs see what M. Attorney hath obserued out of him and his raigne to the contrarie that is to say to proue his supreme iurisdiction It is but one sole and solitary instance and this nothing to the purpose as presentlie you shall see The Attorney Henry by the grace of God K. of England Duke of Normandy to all Archbishops Bishops Abbotts Earls Barons and to all Christians as well present as to come c. We doe ordaine as well in regard of Ecclesiasticall as royall power that whensoeuer the Abbot of Reading shall dy that all the possessions of the monasterie wheresoeuer it is doe remaine entire and free with all the rights and Customes therof in the hands and disposition of the Prior monkes of the Chapter of Reading We doe therfore ordaine establish this ordināce to bee obserued euer because the Abbot of Reading hath no reuenewes proper and peculiar to himself but cōmon with his brethren whosoeuer by Gods wil shall be appointed Abbot in this place by Canonicall electiō may not dispēd the Almes of the Abbey by ill vsage with his secular kinsmen or anie other but in entertaining poore pilgrimes straūgers that hee haue a care not to giue out the rent-lands in fee neither that he make any seruitours or souldiars but in the sacred garment of Christ wherin let him be aduisedlie prouident that he entertaine not young-ones but that he entertaine men of ripe age or discreet as well Clarks as lay-men The Catholike Deuine 22. Heer I desire the prudent Reader to consider how weake and feeble a battery M. Attorney bringeth forth against so stronge and founded a bulwark as before we haue set downe to the contrary wherin hauing shewed and demonstrated by sundry sortes of euident proofe that King Kenry as in all other points of Catholicke doctrine vsage and practice so in this speciall point of the Popes Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction was a perfect Catholicke Prince acknowledging and yeelding vnto him his due spiritual superiority and eminency in euery occasion as you haue heard Now M. Attorney from whome we expected some substantiall proofe to the contrary to wit that he acknowledged not nor practised the same but held this supremacy to be in himself as deriued from his Crowne in as ample sorte as Q. Elizabeth had or might haue by the Statute of Parlament that gaue her all power that had byn or might be in any spirituall person whatsoeuer c. To proue all this I say he com●●●● forth now with this one sole Charter which you haue he●●● whereby the said King as founder of the Abbey of Reading doth assure the lands and temporall possessions which he had giuen to the said Abbey that neither Ecclesiasticall nor Royall power shall take away or distract the same vpon any occasion after the Abbots death but that they shall remaine entyre and free with all their rights in the hands of the Couent Prior and Monks therof vntill a new Abbot be Canonically elected who shall haue no propriety in any parte therof but all common with his brethren in regard wherof he is willed to dispend the same religiously according to the founders meaning and intention as out of the words of the Charter it self you haue heard 23. And now what proueth all this against vs or for our aduersarie Or why is it brought forth think you For heer ● mention only of temporall matters for assuring the possession and due vse of the monasteries temporalityes Heer is no mention at all or meaning of spirituall iurisdiction And how then is this drawne in to M. Attorneys purpose We haue shewed before out of the examples of diuers Kings that founded sundry monasteryes before the Conquest namely K. Ethelbert that of Canterbury K. Offa that of S. Albans K. Edward that of VVestminster and others that besides the ordinary power and priuiledges which founders of pious works haue by the Canon-lawes which are many and great to dispose of their owne donations and to assure the same according to their perpetuall intention The Sea of Rome was wont also to graunt them authority oftentymes to dispose and ordaine spirituall priuiledges to be confirmed afterward by the same Sea as out of diuers like Charters and Graunts you haue heard which was much more then this which heer M. Attorney alleadgeth though nothing to his purpose to proue his maine proposition of supreame Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction deriued from Princes Crownes 24. Wherof it ensueth that this is lesse then nothing And if he will vrge those words of the Charter VVe doe ordaine as ru 〈…〉 regard of Ecclesiasticall as Royall power which in latin are Stat●i●● autem tam Ecclesiasticae quam Regia prospectu potestatis c. it is also lesse then nothing importing only that he both as King and founder forbiddeth all men both Ecclesiasticall and temporall to enter vpon the lands which he hath giuen to the said monast●●● either by spirituall or Royall authority euen as you haue heard K. Edgar before prohibite the like concerning the monastery of Medeshamsted founded by him Vt nullus Ecclesiasticorum vel laicorum super ipsum Dominium habeat That no Ecclesiasticall or lay-person haue dominion ouer it or ouer the Abbot thereof signifyinge in the same place that this priuiledge notwithstanding was confirmed by the Pope and Archbishop of England And the like we may presume of this other of K. Henry as also we may note the great respect that he bare euen in this Charter to the Church for that he putteth Ecclesiasticall before Royall in this affaire And finally all this auailing
Queenes priuie Counsell and vvhether they vvere true or false yet touched they not Fa Garnet vvho neuer had acquaintance or treaty vvith them 36. And vvhereas you saie that he came into England with purpose to prepare the way against the great compounded nauy that followed in the yeare 1588. It is euident that his comming into England vvas tvvo yeares and a halfe at the least before the saied time vvhen there vvas neither notice nor speach nor perhapps so much as a thought of that nauie to come and vvhen aftervvard it appeared on our seas it had not so much as one English Priest or Iesuit in all that multitude of men vvhich is like it vvould haue had if M. Henry Garnet and M. Robert South-well that came in togeather had byn sent to prepare the vvaie for the same Your combinations also of bookes and attemptes the one allwaies as you saie accompanying the other though you esteemed it perhaps a vvittie fine deuise and probable to the vnlearned hearers that cannot distinguish of times or things yet others that looked into the matter more iudiciouslie and found neither coherence of time or subiect betvveene the booke by you named and the attempts pretended laughed in their sleeues remembring the saying of the Poet Non sat commodè diuisa sunt temporibus tibi Daue haec I vvill reapeat your vvordes of one onlie comparison and thereof let the rest be iudged Then cometh forth Squiar saie you with his plot of treason but this not alone neither but was accompanyed with another pernicious booke written by Dolman vvhich vvordes importe that Dolmans booke did accompanie Squiars treason but he that shall examine the order of Chronologie shal fynde in this matter that Dolmans booke vvas in print foure yeares at least before Squiars treason if he committed treason vvas euer heard of nor hath the argument of the booke anie more affinitie at all vvith Squiars fact then hath a fox vvith a figg tree but onlie that your floating Chimeraes intoxicating to vse your ovvne vvordes your hearers braynes doe make you seeme to speake oftentimes mysticallie vvhen in deede you speake miserablie 37. Yovv remember I thinke hovv the aforesaid gentleman in his booke for others doe not forget it gaue you a friendlie reprehension by the vvordes of the famous Orator Catulus or rather of Cicero in his name for a ridiculous fact of yours in vveeping and shedding manie teares in follovving the fiction of Squiars conspiracie at the barre therebie to vvynne credit and shevv your self admirable at that time to the Earle of Essex and others in authoritie but novv I am to expostulate vvith you vpon this occasion for another no lesse patheticall excesse vttered in pleading against M. Garnet vvherein not so much your teares did run as your haires did stand and stare and your eares glovv to heare blasphemie vttered by him in a certaine letter of his intercepted VVherein saie you was conteyned one of the most horrible blasphemyes that euer I heard proceed from any Atheist and maketh my haire to stand on end to thinke of it So you saie 38. And vvhat vvas this horrible blasphemie good Syr that put your tender and religious hart in such a pittifull plight and horror It follovveth that he had written with the iuyce of a lemmō to his friendes abroad out of the tower that he had byn often examined but nothing was produced against him but yet necesse est vt vnus homo moriatur pro populo So you alleadged the text and added presentlie See how he assumeth most blasphemously to himself the wordes that were spoken of Christ our Sauiour but I hope ere he dy he will repent him of this blasphemy 39. But good Syr did you looke vpon the place of S. Iohns gospell before you recited the same and plaied this pageant in so solemne an essemblie Yf you did then vvill you fynd that these vvordes vvere spoken by an euill man vnto an euill sense in his ovvne meaning to vvit by Caiphas that persuaded first in a Councell gathered vpon the resuscitation of Lazarus to put Christ to death thereby to content the Romanes vvho had the vvhole Ievvish nation in iealosie of their loyaltie tovvardes the Emperour and that novv by putting one to death that vvas accused though falslie to denie tribute to be paied to Cesar they should cleere their credit vvith the said Emperour and by his onlie death preuent the destruction of the said Ievvish people by the Romane armies and therefore he said Expedit nobis vt vnus homo moriatur pro populo non totagens pereat It is expedient for vs that one man dy for the people to the end the vvhole nation be not destroied And therefore he saieth not necesse est as you cite the vvordes but expedit to shevv his politicall drift therein 40. And this being Caiphas his crastie and vvicked counsaile and his vvordes in his sense bearing this meaning the holie ghost vvhich as S. Chrysostome and other holie Fathers doe affirme ostantum non scelestum eius cor attigit moued his tongue and not his vvicked mind and vvas in his vvordes not in his sense made him vnvvittinglie to vtter a prophesie and a great high misterie that except one man to vvit Christ should die for the sinnes of the people none could be saued Novv then Syr this sentence of Caiphas hauing tvvo meanings and senses as you haue heard let vs examine vvhich vvas most probable to be vsed and alluded vnto by M. Garnet vvho gathering by manie coniectures that you and some other of his good friendes had a great desire to bring the Iesuitts vvithin the compasse of this late odious treason or at least-vvise vvithin the suspition or hatred thereof for that the lay-gentlmen partakers of the fact vvere thought to be deuoted tovvardes them and their Order and seing that God vnexpectedlie had deliuered him into your handes he might verie vvell thinke that he at least should paie for the rest and die also of likeli-hood for disgracing the rest and in that sense alluded to the vvordes of Caiphas tending to like policie 41. But novv for the second sense vvhich particularlie designed the death of Christ our Sauiour for the redemption of man-kinde none I thinke is so simple as vvould imagine M. Garnet to applie to himself though in this point also M. Attorney is to be taught out of true diuinitie that diuerse places vttered litterallie of Christ in holie scripture maie secondarily also by allusion be applied vnto men and this vvithout all horror of blasphemie or imputation of Atheisme vvhich are M. Attorneyes passionate accusations in this place As for example vvhere the Prophet vvriteth of him Et cum iniquis reputatus est he vvas esteemed vvith the vvicked vvhich vvas meant immediatlie and principallie by the holie-ghost of Christ and yet by allusion it maie be applied to anie of his seruants And that
benefices Per annuium baculum that is by giuing them a ring a staffe which are the ordinarie signes and markes of taking possession of their iurisdiction which though the said Princes doe acknowledge to bee a spirituall Act and consequently not possible to descend from the right of their temporall Crowne as M. Attorney would haue it yet desired they to inioy it by Commission from the Sea Apostolicke in respect of their greater authoritie amonge their Subiects and for more breuitie of prouiding and establishing incumbentes when benefices of cure fell voide and for other such reasons wherof we may read in the liues of diuers of our Kings And namelie of King Henrie the first this Conquerour his sonne what earnest suite he made to haue these inuestitures graunted him which the Pope did flattly deny to doe yea and the greatest causes of that wonderfull breach between the Popes Alexander the 2. and Gregorie the 7. and others of that age with the Emperour Henrie and his Successours were by the occasion of these inuestitures which the said Popes would not graunt Albeit I find some ages after that the great and famous Lawyer Baldus aboue two hundred years gone recordeth that in his tyme two Kings only had these priuiledges graunted them from the Sea Apostolicke The King of England to wit and the King of Hungary which perhaps was in regard that their Kingdomes lay so far of as it might be preiudiciall to their Churches to expect allwayes the said Inuestitures from Rome But yet he expresly saith that it was by Commission and delegation of the Pope Papa saith he committit spiritualia etiam mero laico ideo Rex Anglorum rex Hungaria conferunt in suis Reguis Praebendas ex priuilegio Papa The pope may commit spirituall things to a meere lay-man and this he proueth by diuers texts of law and hence it is that the King of England and King of Hungary doe in their Kingdomes giue Prebends by priuiledge of the Pope Wherby we vnderstand that in Baldus his time it was held for a pecular priuiledge of these two Kings which fithence hath byn communicated to diuers other Christian Princes who doe vse and exercise the same at this day but yet none pretending it as from the right of their Crownes For they neuer pretended to giue benefice or Bishopricke by their owne Kingly authority but only to present and commend fit persons vnto the Sea Apostolicke to be admitted and inuested therby as all other Catholicke Princes at this day doe vse yea and that this right of presentation also they tooke not but by concession and approbation also of the foresaid Sea Apostolicke as by the former examples may appeere 35. And this is so much as I thinke cōuenient to saie in this place to M. Attorneys silly instance and I haue been the longer theraout for that this K. VVilliam is the head and roote of al the Kings following and this which hath been answered to this obiection will giue much light to all other instances that are to ensue And if anie King should haue taken anie other course from this established by the Conquerour their head and origen which yet none euer in any substantiall point did vntill King Henry the 8. you may see by all this discourse that the Conquerour might say of them as S. Iohn said of some of his Ex nobis prodierunt sed non erant exnobis And so much of the Conquerour OF KING WILLIAM RVFVS AND HENRY THE FIRST That vvere the Conquerours sonnes and of King Stephen his Nephevv And how they agreed with the said Conquerour in our Question of spirituall iurisdiction acknowledged by them to be in others and not in themselues CHAP. VIII THis beginning being established in the Conquerour cōforme to that which was in the precedent Kings before the Conquest their remaineth now that wee make our descent by shewing the like conformitie in all subsequent Kings vnto K. Henry the 8. according to our former promise Wherfore first in ranke there commeth K. VVilliam Rufus second sonne of the Conquerour among those of his children that liued at his death who being named to the succession by his said father vpon his death-bed so charged forewarned as you haue heard in this verie point of honoring the Church and Ecclesiasticall power and vnder that hope and expectation embraced and crowned by the good Archbishop Lanfranke 〈◊〉 king first his solemne Oath to the same effect which his father had taken before him in the day of his Coronation he gaue g●●● satisfaction contentment to all his people at the beginning of his raigne as all our historiographers doe testifie that is to say so long as Archbishop Lanfranke liued to whom he bare singular respect loue and reuerence but the said Archbishop deceasing in the second yeare of his raigne which was about the 20. of his age the young man as thinking himself free from all respect to God or man brake into those extreame disorders of life which our historyes doe recount 2. And among others or rather aboue others in oppressing the Church holding Bishopricks Abbies in his hands as they fell void and not bestowing them afterward but for bribes and Simony And namely the Archbishopricke of Canterbury he held foure years in his hand after the death of Lanfranke vntil at length falling greiuously sicke in the Citty of Glocester and fearing to dy made many promises of amending his life as namely saith Florentius Ecclesias non amplius vendere nec ad censum ponere sed illas Regia tueri potestate irrectas leges destruere rectas statuere Deo promisit He promised to God not to sell Churches any more nor to put them out to farme but by his kingly power to defend them and to take away all vniust laws and to establish such as were rightfull And heervpon presently to begin withall he nominated to the Archbishopricke of Canterbury a great and worthy learned man named Anselmus Abbot of the monastery of Becke in Normandy who was then present in England for that some moneth or two before he bad byn intreated by the Earle of Chester Syr Hugh Lupus to come into England to found and order his Abbey saith Stow of S. VVerberge at Chester of whom Malmesbury liuing presently after him saith Quo nemo vnquam iusti ten●cior c. then which Anselmne no man was euer more constant in righteousnes no man in this age more exactly learned no man so profoundly spirituall as this Archbishop that was the father of our countrey and mirrour of the world 3. But this vnfortunate King was no sooner recouered say the same Authours but he repented himself sorely that he had not solde the said Archbishopricke with other for more money and therevpon tooke an occasion to picke a quarrell against the said Anselmus and among other things to let him that he could not doe his
for the indifferent Reader to consider these points following 8. First that we hauing proued the said acknowledgement in all former Kings it is not like that this deflected or went aside from their stepps or if he had done it would at least haue byn noted wherin and in what points and some records remaine therof as there doe of other points which were any way singular in him Secondly we finde this King much commended for pious deuotion by ancient writers and namely by Thomas VValsingham who in the beginning of K. Edward the first his life giueth a breife note of this King Henries life and death saying first of his sicknes and death that being at the Abbey of S. Edmunds-burie and taken with a greiuous sicknes there came vnto him diuers Bishops Barons and noble men to assist him and be present at his death at what time he humblie confessed his sinnes saith he was absolued by a Prelate and then deuoutlie receauing the bodie of our Sauiour asked all forgiuenes and forgaue all had extreme vnction and so humbly imbracing the crosse gaue vp his spirit to almightie God adding further of his deuotion in his life that euerie day he was accustomed to heare three masses sung and more priuatelie besides and that when the Priest did lift vp the hoast consecrated he would goe himself and holde the Priests arme and after kisse his hand and so returne to his owne place againe 9. Hee telleth also of his familiaritie with S. Lewes K. of France who raigning at the same time though some few years yonger then K. Henry conferred oftentimes with him about matters of deuotion and once telling him that he was delighted more to heare often preaching then manie masses K. Henry answered that he was more delighted to see his friend than to heare another man talke of him though neuer so eloquentlie 10. This then being so and K. Henry both liuing and dying so Catholicklie as both this man and all Authors doe write of him there can be no doubt but that he agreed fullie in iudgment and sense with all his predecessours as well in this point of the Popes Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction as in all others And for his obedience to the Sea of Rome it was so notorious as diuers of his owne people at that time did thinke it to haue excesse For that it was not only in spirituall matters but in temporall affaires of his Kingdome also Nihil enim saith Matthew Paris nisi ex consensu Papae vel illius Legati facere voluit Hee would doe nothing especiallie in his later years but either by the consent of the Pope or his Legat. And further in another place Ipso quoque tempus Rex secus quàm deceret aut expediret se suumque Regnum sub paena exhareditationis quod tamen facere nec potuit nec debuit Domino Papae obliga●it At that very time also the King otherwise then was decent or expedient did oblige himself and his Kingdome which yet he could not nor ought to doe vnto Pope Innocentius the fourth vnder paine of disinheritage c. So he 11. And many times elswere is this complaint renewed and yet on the otherside we may vnderstand by the same Mathew Paris who so much misliketh this ouer much subiection as he calleth it to the Sea of Rome that diuers great commodityes ensued often therby both to him and the Realme To the Realme for that the Popes wrote heerby more confidently and effectually vnto him for amending certaine errors of his then otherwise perhaps they would or could yea threatned him also with excommunication when need required Wherof the said Paris writeth thus in one place In those daies the Popes anger began to be heate against the K. of England for that he kept not his promises so oftentimes made to amend his accustomed excesses and therefore at the instance of Lautence Bishop of Ely and many other that earnestly vrged him he threatned after so many exhortations made vnto him without fruite to excommunicate him and interdict his Kindome c. 12. But yet for all this when after his Barons did rise against him and held him diuers years in warre Pope Vrban the 4. saith Mathew Paris sent his Legat Cardinal Sabinian as far as Bellen in France to pronounce there and set vp the sentence of excommunication against the said Barons who being in armes permitted him not to enter the portes of England but yet not long after by the said Vrban his meanes and Pope Clement the 4. that succeeded him peace followed againe in the said Realme after many years of warre ciuill commotion with great variety of euents succeeding on both sides For that sometymes the King himself with his brother Richard surnamed King of the Romanes and Edward the Prince were taken by the Barons and sometymes the Barons had the worse and Simon Momfort Earle of Licester their cheife head and Captaine was slaine in the field and many miseryes distresses and calamityes ensued on both parts as are accustomed in warlyke affaires but especially of Kingdomes which haue their waues and turmoiles according as the winds of great mens humours and passions doe swell stirr vp or calme the same But in all this time no question was of Catholike religion in England nor any doubt at all of the distinction and subordination between temporall spirituall power and gouernment but that the one was acknowledged in the King as cheife head of the Common-wealth and the other in the Bishops as subordinate to the Sea Apostolike 13. And if we consider the cheife and most euident points wherin this acknowledgement is seen and to be obserued they are these in effect First and principally for all points of saith and beleife which points were not receiued in England nor other wise then they came authorized and allowed by the said Sea Apostolike And secondly for matters of manners in like form if any thing were decreed or ordained by the said Sea as to be obserued generally throughout all Christendome England presently admitted the same though in other matters which were either particular nationall or seuerall to euery Common-wealth England followed that which was most conuenient for her state peace and quietnes 14. And as for Ecclesiasticall Iurisdiction and libertyes of the Church we se by the said Magna Charta decreed and confirmed by this King which is the very same in effect that his Father K. Iohn out of the Charter of K. Henry the first graunted vpon the 16. yeare of his raigne and confirmed againe and published by K. Edward his sonne and all his Catholike Successours that it was wholy left vnto Clergy men and to the Sea Apostolike and not taken nor vsed by the Kings as namely in all matters of Spirituall dispensations elections institutions admissions confirmation● of Prelates and the like all gathering of Synods making of Ecclesiasticall decrees excommunications absolutions indulgences iudging and determining of