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A12215 A surreplication to the reioynder of a popish adversarie VVherein, the spirituall supremacy of Christ Iesus in his church; and the civill or temporall supremacie of emperours, kings, and princes within their owne dominions, over persons ecclesiastical, & in causes also ecclesiasticall (as well as civill and temporall) be yet further declared defended and maintayned against him. By Christopher Sibthorp, knight, one of his majesties iustices of his court of Chiefe-place in Ireland. Sibthorp, Christopher, Sir, d. 1632. 1637 (1637) STC 22525; ESTC S102608 74,151 92

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Nicholaus de Lyra your ordinarie Glosse did comment upon it and so they read to this day as also many written coppies which I have seene saith hee And therefore it is no small blemish to the Papists that in former times they had also thus corrupted even that which they call S. Ieromes translation Hee further sheweth that the originall Hebrew and the Greeke translation of the Septuagints bee also directly against that their then corrupted translation in this point And so did S. Cyprian also repeate this Text. Lib. 1. epist 3 8.1● libr. 3. epist 4 epist 9 Et homo quicunque fecerit in superbia ut non exaudiat sacerdotem aut Iudicem quicunque fuerit in diebus illis morietur homo ille Et omnis populus tum audierit timebit And the man whosoever shall in pride not heare the Priest or the Iudge which shall be in those dayes that man shall die and the people when they shall heare of it shall feare First then obedience is by the wordes of this text commaunded aswell toward the Iudge that is to say the civill Magistrate as toward the Priest For you see the Priest and the Iudge therein to bee not all one but directly distinguished yea by Iudges as by the chiefe rulers was Israel sometimes governed and that for sundrie yeares untill kings were appointed as the Booke of Iudges it selfe declareth And when Kings were appointed both Priests and Iudges were subject to the Kings as the Bookes of Samuel of the Kings and of the Chronicles doe shew And for an evident proofe hereof you may take the example of that godly and religious King Iehoshaphat amongst the rest For hee not onely set Iudges in the land throughout all the fenced Cities of Iudah Citie by Citie but hee said likewise to those Iudges Take heede what yee doe 2. Chron. 19. v. 5 6.7.8 9.10.11 for yee judge not for man but for the Lord who is with you in the judgement wherefore now let the feare of the Lord bee upon you take heede and doe it For there is no iniquitie with the Lord our God nor respect of persons nor taking of gifts Moreover in Ierusalem did Iehoshaphat set of the Leuites and of the Priests and of the chiefe of the Fathers of Israel for the iudgement of the Lord and for controversies when they returned to Ierusalem and he charged them sayng Thus shall you doe in the feare of the Lord faithfully and with a perfect heart And what cause soever shall come unto you of your brethren that dwell in the Cities betweene bloud and bloud betweene Law and Commaundement Statutes and Iudgements yee shall warne them that they trespasse not against the Lord and so wrath come upon you and upon your brethren this doe and yee shall not trespasse And behold Amariah the Priest shal be the chiefe over you in all matters of the Lord and Zebadiah the sonne of Ishmael a ruler of the house of Iudah for all the Kings matters and the Levites shall be Officers before you Deale couragiously and the Lord shall be with the good Where you see that in the time of the Kings the Iudges and the Priests also were subject to the King and at his ordering and appointment For all these both Iudges Priests and Levites did King Iehosaphat thus constitute and appoint But now secondly observe that both the Priest and the Iudge Deut. 17.11 mentioned in this Text of Deut. 17. were to Iudge and give sentence not as they listed themselves but according to the Law which God himselfe had given in those cases So that the sentence Mal 2.7.8.9 Isa 6.10.11 12 Ier. 23 11.12.13 Esai 56.10.11 Ier. 6.13.14 Ezec. 22.25.26 Micah 3.5 6 7. Exod. 32.1 23.4.5.6.7.8 c. Iere. 26.7.8 Act. 23.1.2 3. Act. 4.18 Act. 5.40 not onely of the inferiour Priests but even of the chiefe or high-Priest himselfe was not alwayes certainely true and evermore infallible as you say it was unlesse it were directed and done according to that law For otherwise they might and did erre in their judgements Yea many complaints were in the old Testament against them for their errours and going astray from Gods law insomuch that although they said as the Papists likewise doe of their Priest of Rome Non peribit lex à Sacerdote That the law shall not perish from the Priest Ierem. 18.18 yet God himselfe sayed otherwise namely that Lex peribit à Sacerdote The law shall perish from the priest Ezech. 7.26 And for further proofe hereof remember that Aaron was the high Priest and yet that he with the rest of the Priests and people erred when they made the golden Calfe Againe were they not the Priests and Prophets that gave sentence of death against Ieremie Gods true Prophet was that therefore a just sentence which was so given against him Was it not also in a Councell that Ananias the high Priest commaunded men that stood by to smite S. Paul on the mouth was it therefore well done and justifiable Was not moreover the high Priest present in that Councell which commaunded the Apostles to teach no more in the name of IESVS was that therefore a good commaundement or a good and allowable decree that was thus made against them Yea was not the high Priest present in that Councell wherein CHRIST himselfe was condemned Math. 26.59 62.63.65.66 And did not hee in that Councell say expressely of Christ that hee had spoken blasphemie It is then verie apparant that not onely the inferiour Priests but even the high Priest also though joyned assembled with others in a Councell might neverthelesse possibly erre and did erre sometimes in his sentence and giving of judgement And therefore so also may the Pope of Rome erre not onely as hee is singly considered by himselfe but even though hee be joyned with others in a Councell admitting that hee were the high Priest Heb. 9.11 Hebr. 5.5 Heb. 4.14 Heb. 7.26 1. Pet. 5.1.2 3.4 Hebr. 13.20 in the Christian Church which hee is not as I have shewed in my Reply pag. 10.11 whereto you have made no Answer in your Reioynder For the sacred Scriptures acknowledge no other high Priest in the Christian Church but CHRIST IESVS onely nor any other to be the chiefe Sheepheard or Supreame Pastor over all the severall Pastors of all the severall flockes in the world but onely CHRIST IESVS But yet here thirdly observe that this Text of Deut. 17. which you cite concerneth onely the Iewish policie or Common-wealth of the Iewes as being a part of the Iudiciall law proper to that nation and which is now abrogated and abolished For to determine those harder and difficulter questions and litigious cases concerning bloud and the other things there mentioned the partie grieved is required to resort to the Leviticall Priests Deu 17.8.9 of which sort there be none at this day amongst Christians and againe To the place which the Lord their God should
dominanturijs vos autem non sic Luke 22.24 25.26 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Quis eorum Maior The kings of Nations beare dominion over them but yee may not doe so one over another For of this was the question or contention and therefore of this must the answere bee accordingly understood These words then doe cleerely declare that there should bee no Ecclesiasticall King or Ecclesiasticall Monarch amongst them to rule or raigne over all the rest although terrestriall Kings and Monarches did and are well allowed to raigne and rule over the people of those Nations whereof they be Kings But againe hath not S. Gregorie himselfe told us long agone not onely how needelesse and superfluous but how pernicious also and dangerous it was to the whole Church to admitte of one to bee an universall Bishop or an Ecclesiasticall Monarch to rule Gregorie and raigne over all the rest For then saith he if hee which is the Ecclesiasticall Monarch or the universall Bishop doe fall the whole and universall Church falleth with him And what Gregory thus spake and as it were prophecied so long since was afterward found true and came to passe accordingly to the lamentable woe of the whole Church in the succeeding times by that meanes Yea the same S. Gregory hath yet further certified us how pernicious and dangerous this was and would bee not onely to the whole Church but even to himselfe also that would take upon him to be the Ecclesiasticall Monarch or supreme and universall Bishop over all Gregory For saith hee what wilt thou answer unto Christ who is the true head of the universall Church in that day of iudgement when by this name of universall Bishop thou seekest to subiugate all the members of his Body unto thy selfe Whom dost thou imitate herein save onely him who in contempt of those legions of Angels which were his fellowes sought to mount aloft to the top of singularitie where hee might bee subiect to none and all others might be subiect unto him As for the having of Bishops of Dioceses and Provinces it no more proveth that therefore there may or must be one universall Bishop or Ecclesiasticall Monarch over all then that because there be divers Kings in divers and severall Kingdomes therefore there should be one universall King over all the Kings and kingdomes in the world And besides there were Bishops of Dioceses and Provinces in the times both of Pelagius and Gregorie Bishops of Rome whom neverthelesse they tooke no exception against nor disallowed But him that would take upon him to be an Ecclesiasticall Monarch or a supreme and universall Bishop over the whole Church him they would not endure but vehemently impugned and detested him and that not without verie apparant just and good cause as here you see But moreover did you never reade Iohn Gerson de Auferibilitate Papae What he affirmed in some cases may generally and absolutely be affirmed namely That the Pope may bee utterly abolished and taken cleane away that without any lesse or hurt at all to Christendome yea to the great and ample good not onely of Christendome but of all the world beside if the matter be well weighed and rightly and throughly considered 18. But touching this point of supremacie you seeme at last in words to appeale to the judgement of the Primitive Church I would you would doe as you say and stand to the judgement of it in verie deede For I have proved which you have not disproved nor ever will bee able to disprove That for the space of eight hundred yeares and more after Christ even the Bishops of Rome themselves aswell as other Bishops were subject to the Emperours And that the Christian Emperours had also authoritie in matters Ecclesiasticall aswell as Civill and temporall within their Dominions and nothing doe you or can you alledge against it but what hath beene many and sundrie times sufficiently abundantly answered confuted by the Protestants As for that Catalogue of Emperours Kings and Princes which you affirme to have beene exemplarily punished in this world by violent and miserable deathes for oppugning and striving against the Monarchie and supremacie of the Bishop of Rome you onely say suppose it but doe not prove it And it is an overbold part in you to enter into Gods secret counsels and to affirme that to be the cause which you know not nor be able to prove For there might be and so no doubt there were other just causes of their punishments As for the oppugning of the Popes supremacie that could not be the cause of those or of any other punishments in asmuch as the grosse wrongs and utter unlawfulnesse of it hath before plentifully appeared and that neyther the Pope nor all his partakers be able to shew any commission or warrant from God for the approbation of it Yea how could the oppugning or contending against the Popes Monarchie and supremacie be any cause of punishment when in the holy Scriptures themselves it appeareth as in my first Booke I have shewed at large that Papall Rome is the whore of Babylon and that the Pope of Rome the head and ruler of that adulterate and Popish Church is the verie grand Antichrist Doe not therefore deceive your selfe nor others any longer by mistaking the cause which is you know a fallacie à causa non ut causa Yet you further say that I am argued by the wisest in this Enterprize to have discovered in consideratively much arrogancie of witt in not well weighing the mayne importance of this difficultie farre surmounting the talent of a Lawyer But first there is no such difficultie in it Reges Gentium domina●tur as you speake of and this I have formerly declared Secondly why doth it surmount or exceede a Lawyers talent and abilitie more in mee then in you Wherefore if I bee as you say I am censured or argued by the wisest of much arrogancie because being a Lawyer I meddle in this matter Must not those wisest in all justice and equitie condemne you likewise of much arrogancie for the same cause For you have hitherto in your writings affirmed your selfe to be a Lawyer if all this while you neverthelesse be not a Lawyer you have done your selfe a great deale of discredite and dishonour in affirming it Neyther can any man then tell how to beleeve you in any thing you speake or write So that herein you gull not mee but your selfe and others It would therefore best become you to unmaske your selfe and to discover your selfe plainely For you must thinke howsoever you would conceale your selfe that you are sufficiently knowne and goe not invisible But thirdly who are those whom you call and account the wisest For there bee some that be wise in their owne conceite and some that be Antichristianly wise and some that bee worldly wise 1. Cor. 3.19 whose wisedome is as S. Paul affirmeth it foolishnesse with God For hath not God saith hee made the wisedome of this world 1. Cor. 1.20 foolishnesse The world accounteth the wisedome of God to bee foolishnesse But hee saith that the foolishnesse of God is wiser then men and the weakenesse of God 1. Cor. 1.25 stronger then men The wisest men then doubtlesse bee those that humbly submit all their learning and wisedome to Gods word and wisedome and that bee divinely and Christianly wise as for the rest they must as the same S. Paul teaceth them 1. Cor 3.18 become fooles that they may bee wise Whatsoever therefore you say I beleeve that which Christ Iesus himselfe hath spoken to bee true and that it will ever bee found verified Luke 7.35 videlicet That wisedome is iustified of all her Children But lastly what arrogancie eyther of wit or learning doe I shew or discover when I neyther brag nor boast of eyther and when I further franckly and freely confesse in all my Bookes that such matter as is therein contayned I have learned of others and so attribute nothing to my selfe The wit and learning I have how small slender or meane soever you or others esteeme it I thanke God for it and doe humbly pray him to give mee the Grace to use and imploy it to his honour and glorie and not to mine owne Yea how weake or meane soever it bee in respect of it selfe yet such is the strength of the cause which I defend and the strength of the Almightie who hath enabled mee in it and to whom I give all the thankes and the glorie Psal 4.13 as that it now appeareth I hope to everie understanding equall and judicious Person to bee undoubtedly victorious and triumphant Hereafter therefore I shall not neede to write any more in it which is now made thus manifest cleere apparant and invincible So that everie man that will speake truely may s●● of it that Magna est veritas praevalet God open our eyes if it bee his will and inlighten all our understandings that wee may all see and know his truth acknowledge reverence embrace and professe it and walke in the wayes of it evermore AMEN FINIS