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A54177 The new witnesses proved old hereticks, or, Information to the ignorant in which the doctrines of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton, which they stile, mysteries never before known, revealed, or heard of from the foundation of the world, are proved to be mostly ancient whimsies, blasphemies and heresies, from the evidence of Scripture, reason and several historians : also an account of some discoourse betwixt L.M. and my self, by which his blasphemous, ignorant and unsavory spirit is clearly and truly manifested, in love to the immortal souls of those few, who are concern'd in the belief of his impostures / by a living true witness to that one eternal way of God, revealed in the light of righteousness W.P. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1672 (1672) Wing P1326; ESTC R15258 38,470 64

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his Imaginations called himself Moses and Aaron his Brother as Reeves called himself and Muggleton T.S.T. see Epiphanius Haeres 57. By all which Reader I am not without hopes but it does appear how Falsly and with what Treachery these Persons have dealt with poor silly People who not being satisfied in what they did know haye pin'd their Faith on the sleeves of such as told them things they did not know and so have been given up to believe a Lye For what is more evident then that in this very Tryal he and his deceased Colleague are found guilty of Error Treachery and great Deceit Therefore Reader delay not to passe the Just Sentence of Impostor and Counterfeit upon them and their Commission who would raise to themselves a New Sect out of the Ruins of old Heresies and that under the Pretence of Choice Revelations wherein there is no Proof beyond their bare Assertions and to make them pass forge an Authority from Heaven which loaths both them and their Lyes to back and recommend them as unheard of Mysteries O! sell not thy Reason who ever thou art enslave not thy Judgment nor rob God's Light and Grace of its Office to guide and teach thee in the Denial of those Evils that are to be forsaken and in Imbracing whatsoever ought to be followed Bring not thy self under the Power of an Ignorant Arrogant Blasphemous and Sottish Man but remember that God Almighty who cannot lye hath promised that in the last dayes He would be the Teacher of his People by his Spirit of Truth and where is the Habitation of the most-High but in the Contrite and Humble Hearts of Men For whasoever may or can be known of God is manifested within who having illuminated all and given to every Man a Talent into it Reader have thy Mind retired and wait to have it subject thereunto and thou shalt come to know him whom to know aright is Life Eternal But as I have plainly shown their abominable Cheat in obtruding Old Fables for New Revelations upon People whereby I have discharg'd the first part of my Promise So for a Confirmation of my Judgment concerning Muggleton and to accomplish this abridg'd Discourse take my following Relation with the same impartiallity that I give it thee I Have been twice to visit Lodowick Muggleton and at each time I staid too long to repeat all or the very words which passed betwixt us yet shall I faithfully write something of the matter and words as neer as I at present do remember them P. Art thou the last Witness that ever shall be Muggleton Yes and there shall never be another P. Who sent thee M. God spoke to John Reeve and he spoke to me P. Is that all thou hast to produce only J. R's word for it to this he avoided Again P. Thou sayest God did not create the Earth and the Heavens he only fathom'd them making them Co-eternal with God but Moses said he did Let me see a Bible M. Moses put the Cart before the Horse This I bore for the next Question 's sake P. Paul the Apostle who also wrote by the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost saith God created all things or made them and the World is a great part of all things besides if it was before he made it in this sense must it not be God since nothing which is uncreated can be a Creature M. If Paul were living I would have reproved him for that Come not here to Dispute but Believe I say it that 's enough P. Canst thou reprove the Holy Ghost for he spake by it M. Yes P. That 's Blasphemy besides if thou sayst it must I therefore believe it because thou sayst it At this he grew inraged and but for an Acquaintance by and a Friend of his I had doubtless been Curst at that time The next time I came wich a Friend in company I found him sitting by the Chimny Corner quaffing with some of his Followers and Benefactors as what we saw before us did Evidence My first salute was thus P. How is it Lodowick methinks thou lookst with thy old thred-bare black Suit like a sequestered begging Priest M. I am a Priest P. Art thou Of what Order M. The Order of Aaron P. Aaron where be thy Bells then M. I have them in the Mystery P. Mystery for shame don't talk of a Mystery for there was some such thing that did belong to that Order things were altogether External Typical and Figurative Methinks this were enough to show that thou art no wayes concern'd in any Christian Commission who art not a Priest after the Order of Melchisedeck but Aaron whose Priesthood is at an end as said the Apostle to the Hebrews chap. 7. so that thou hast Vnchristian'd thy whole Commission and brings it under the Law of a Carnal Commandment and therefore has no Part nor Portion in the Power of an Endless Life as saith the same Apostle He interrupted M. Have a care Life and Death 's before thee therefore chuse Life and live c. P. But Lodowick Thou pretendest to know the Dimensions of God how high may he be M. Betwixt your Height and his meaning a Friend then present P. O Abominable Well L. Muggleton God will blast thee forever thou Presumptuous and Blasphemous Wretch If thou turnest not from the Wickedness with much more M. Thou shalt be Damned God has decreed thou shalt be Damned thou art of the seed of the Serpent P. Why then didst thou set Life and Death before me just now saying thou hadst more mind I should be saved then any of the Quakers if I am ordain'd to be damn'd Is it not great Deceit to exhort a man to chuse what he cannot have though he bid for it and to refuse that which he is unable to avoid But Muggleton I will not say that I serve such a God no my God never ordained thee to be Damned whether thou dost Well or Ill this destroyes all Rewards and Punishments and makes Evil and Good unavoidable M. I would not give a Pinn for that God which would save us both now I have Damn'd thee P. Why dost thou talk of a God for thou sayst Thy God can dye did the Immortal God ever cease to be M. I would not give a Rush for that God which can't dye P. I say thou and thy God shall to the Pit from whence ye came where is Death and Darkness forever how can God cease to be and yet be God since if he ceast every thing that remained in being must have been greater since below ceasing to be is nothing But suppose this Nonsense and Blasphemies how rose he again M. God left Elias with Power P. Then Elias was greater then God for that which raiseth is greater then that which is raised but if the Power never dyed the Power was God and that which dyed not God O Hellish Impudence and Blasphemy O Muggleton thy End will be Destruction M. W. P. I say thou
shall not be your Ruin How long would I have gathered you and ye would not But now God commands all to Repent God is no Respecter of Persons but they that fear him in every Age shall be accepted c. with many more they make him but to Complement with Wicked Men and speak them fair in words meaning nothing less in his Heart having Pre-ordained them to eternal Wrath. Fifthly This Principle would defile his eternally inherent Holiness by making him as well the Father of Sin as of Destruction for men are either Damned for something or for nothing if for nothing that were most Wicked in these Predestinarians account then for something and what is that Sin very well and how came they to this sin they committed it and how came they to do so they would do it why could they have avoided it by no means where 's the Difference then betwixt being Damn'd for not doing what they could not and doing nothing The Predestination was not that all Evil Men that wilfully withstood Mercy should be Damned for they were ordained never to receive it but that such a Number consisting of such and such particular Persons should Vnalterably and Vnavoidably be Damned only to Glorifie God Sixthly But this would stain the Glory of the Almighty in that neither in himself nor from the Redemption and Salvation of the souls of men his Glory is great enough unless it be compleated in the Eternal Destruction of far the greatest part of Mankind Seventhly This destroyes all Good Works for may all say Neither can my Good nor Evil Works make one Hair white or black add or diminish in reference to God's unalterable Decree and therefore will I give my self unto the Liberty of the Flesh and enjoy the Pleasures of this Life whilst I can have them Eighthly It destroyes all Government since who cares how desperate he is or what Injury he does who conceiting to himself his Post is pitcht his State set and that unchangeably but breaking all Laws takes his Revenge on what would bring him to condign Punishment for his Exorbitancies To conclude and come somewhat closer to the Persons concerned What signifies their coming to call them to repent that cannot be saved if they do Or to warn such to repent that cannot be damned What signifies their Commission or their Cursing or Blessing For can they bless him to Life that is ordained before-hand to be damned Or can they curse him to Death who is pre-ordained to Eternal Life If therefore Men are pre-ordained to Salvation or Damnation to what purpose should any fear their Curse or prize their Blessing since neither can alter or change the Condition of any Person and what more contrary to the Mind of the Merciful God who is willing that all should come unto the Knowledge of the Truth and be saved That Antiquity both knew and abhorr'd this Opinion is Manifest Josephus in his 18th Book of Antiquities and 2d Chap. also Epiphanius in his Preface to his first Book of Heresie again Eusebius in his 5th Book chap. 13. and Socrates in his 1st Book and chap. 17. and you will be fully informed of the Abettors of this dangerous and Wicked Opinion namely a Sect of the Pharisees also Florinus Blastus against whom Ireneus Bishop of Lyons in France wrote two Epistles and a Book call'd Ogdous wherein he tells Florinus That when himself was a Child and with Famous Christian Polycarpus who conversed with John that conversed with Christ he remembred him to be busie about the Emperors Court and further tells him that had the Apostle John but lived to have heard that Damnable Doctrine which makes God the Author of Evil he would have said Good God unto what times half Thou reserved me and tells him that in Publishing so Wicked an Opinion he had declared that which all the Hereticks before had never durst to pronunce plainly with much more to this purpose against him the Sect called Manichees from one Manes held and promoted this Opinion of Fatal destiny who Muggleton-like is reported to have called himself Christ and the Comforter and published the Work of one Buddas in his own Name calling It a New Dispensation All which Reader I assure thee Histories do inform Us to have been known in the 2d 3 4 5 and 600. Years after Christ which is above a 1000. Years since In which Time many were the Impudent Spirits that assum'd to themselves as great Authority as Muggleton in Reeve's Absence doth at this time namely Simon Magus who had so far possess'd the Romans with his Sorcery of his pretended Divinity calling himself to the Samaritans the Father to the Jews the Son to the Gentiles the Holy Spirit as the Heathens erected a Statue or Image of him in the time of Claudius at Rome having this Inscription Simoni Deo Sancto to the Holy God Simon Next One Helen a Woman that accompanied him whom he called the Principle Vnderstanding much like Muggleton's Daughter who Reeve said should be the Chiefest of Women Eusebius in his 2d Book and 12 13 and 14 Chap. after this One Menander said to have been a Sorcerer and the Disciple of Simon went up and down deluding Silly Credulous People by affirming to them he was the great Power of God come down from Heaven and that all were to believe in him and be baptised in his manner or they could not be saved but those that did should never dye read Eusebius in his 3d Book Chap. 23. Ireneus Book 1. Chap. 21. Epiphan haeres 22. Again Carpocrates is reported to have like Reeves and Muggelton patch'd his Opinion who was so vain Glorious as to affirm he knew all things out of Simon Menander Nicholas from whence came the Nicolaitans in the Revelations Saturninus Basilides c. and see Epiphan Haeres 27. also Augustin of Heresies Again We find that Eusebius tells us of one Montanus whereof Montanists or Catafrygians are called taught in Phrygia that he was the Holy Ghost as may be seen in the 5th Book of Eusebius 13 14 15 16 17 Chapters Also that one Buddas affirm'd that he was born of a Virgin as true as Muggletons being the Last Witness of God This Buddas writ a Book and in his swelling Pride styl'd it Mysteries much like the Whimsies of Reeve and Muggleton in their Transcendent Spiritual Treatise next he wrote a Book called the Gospel of the Nature of Reeve and Muggleton's Divine Looking Glass His End was to break his Neck 'T is to be fear'd that a worse will be miserable Muggletons even Torment of Spirit as Reeve is said to have left the World in To conclude Noetus the Ring-Leader of that great Mystery never revealed till within these 20. years sayes Reeve and Muggleton namely the Godheads being a Man and so absolutely Flesh and Blood as that when the Body dyed the Godhead ceased and lay under Death's Power three dayes and three Nights He through the height of