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A81806 A full relation of the passages concerning the late treaty for a peace, begun at Vxbridge January 30. 1644. England and Wales. Sovereign (1625-1649 : Charles I). 1645 (1645) Wing D2480A; Thomason E281_12; ESTC R200042 160,709 240

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effectuating of ye foirsaides endis the concluding of the Propositions with the Estaites th aire results thairupon And all suche uyr matteris conceruing the good of bothe Kingdomes as ar or all be from time to time committed unto thame be the Estaites of yis Kingdome or Committies thairof according to the instructiones givin or to be givin to the Commissionaris abovenameit or their quuorums And for this effect The Estaites Ordeanes Iohne Erle of Lowdonne Chancellor Iohne Lord Balmerino Sir Archibald Iohnstounne of Wariestounne Sir Charles Erskyne of Cambuskenneth and Hew Kennedy repaire with all dilligence to the Kingdome of England to the effect before rehearsit conforme to this Commissione and instructiones As also the Estaites Ordeanes ye saides ArchibaldMarqueis of Argyle M. George Dundas of Maner and Sir Iohne Smyth Proveist of Edenburgh to repaire to ye Kingdome of England with all sick conventencie as the occasione of ye businesse shall require or as they sall be commandit ather be the Committie from the Parliament heir they being in Scotland or be the Committie with the Army they being in England And Ordeanes thame to joyne with the remanent Commissionaris to the affect above mentionat conforme to the Commission● and instructiones givin or to be givin to the Commissionais or thair quuorums thair anent be the Estaites of this Kingdome or Committies yrof And the Estaites of Parliament be thir presents haldis and sall halde firme and stable all and what summ evir thinges the Commissionaris abovenameit or any thrie or mae of thame sall doe conforme to this Commisionne and to the instructionnes given or to be given to thame Extractit furthe of the butkes of Parliament be me Sir Alexander Gibsone of Dun●ie Knyt Clerk of His Majesties Registers and Rollis under my sign● and subscriptionne Mannuall Alexander Gibsonne Cler. Regist After the Commissions read their Commissioners delivered to His Majesties Commissioners this paper Ianuary the 30. WEE are directed by Our Instructions to Treat with XIII your Lordships upon the Propositions concerning Religion the Militia and Ireland three daies a peice alternis vicibus during the space of twenty dayes from the 30 of Ianuary beginning first with the Propositions of Religion and accordingly we shall deliver unto your Lordships a Paper to morrow morning upon those Propositions Accordingly the Treaty did proceed upon those subject● three daies a piece Alternis vicibus beginning with that of Religion upon Friday the last of Ianuary and so continuing Saturday the first and Monday the third of February which was after resumed Tuesday the 11 Wednesday the 12 and Thursday the 13 of February and again the two last daies of the 20. And the like course was held touching the Militia and Ireland But because the passages concerning each subject severally will be more clearly understood being collected and disposed together under their severall heads therefore all those which concerne Religion the Militia and Ireland are put together And in like manner the passages preparatory to the Treaty concerning the Commissions the manner of the Treaty and a seditious Sermon made the first day appoynted for the Treaty And such as hapned in the Treaty touching His Majesties Propositions The demands of farther time to Treat and other emergent passages which have no Relation to those of Religion the Militia and Ireland are in like manner digested under their severall heads with their particular dates And first those which concerne the Commissions Friday the last of Ianuary His Majesties Commissioners delivered unto Their Commissioners this paper Vlt. Ianuary WEE having perused the power granted to your Lordships XIV in the Paper delivered by the Earle of Northumberland and finding the same to relate to instructions we desire to see those instructions that thereby we may know what power is granted to you and we ask this the rather because by All their Commissioners were not then come to Vxbridge the Powers we have seen we doe not find that your Lordships in the absence of any one of your number have power to Treat Their Answer 31. Ianuary BY Our Instructions we or any tenne of us whereof some of either XV. House of the Parliament of England and some of the Commissioners of the Kingdome of Scotland to be present have power to Treat with your Lordships Their farther Answer Vlt. Ianuary VVHereas your Lordships have expressed unto us a desire XVI of seeing our Instructions to know what Power is granted us and this the rather because you say you find not by what you have seen that in the absence of any one of our number we have power to Treat To this we returne in Answer that since the Paper already delivered in by us declaring that by our Instructions any tenne of us whereof some of either House of the Parliament of England and some of the Commissioners of the Kingdom of Scotland to be present had power to Treat with your Lordships hath not given you satisfaction in the particular of the Quorum We shall send unto the two Houses of Parliament to have the Quorum inserted in the Commission and doe expect the returne of it so amended within two or three daies when we shall present it unto your Lordships But as for your desire in generall to see our Instructions it is that for which we have no Warrant nor is it as we conceive at all necessary or proper for us so to doe for that the Propositions upon which we now Treat have been already presented from the Parliaments of both Kingdoms unto His Majesty and whatsoever is propounded by us in order unto them is sufficiently warranted by what both Parliaments have done in the passing and sending of those Propositions and by the Commissions authorising us to Treat upon them already shewn unto your Lordships so as there can be no need to shew any other power Accordingly on Saturday the first of February they did deliver their Commission for the English Commissioners renewed as followeth Die Sabbatis primo Febr. BE it Ordained by the Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament that Algernon Earle of Northumberland Philip XVII Earle of Pembrook and Montgomery William Earle of Salisbury Bazil Earle of Denbigh Thomas Lord Viscount Wenman Denzill Hollis William Pierrepont Sir Henry Vane junior Oliver St Iohn Bulstrode Whitlock Iohn Crew and Edmund Prideaux shall have power and authority and are hereby authorized to joyne with the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland together with Alexander Henderson upon the Propositions concerning Religion only or any tenne of them Whereof some of either House of the Parliament of England and some of the Commissioners of the Parliament of Scotland are to be present To treat with the Lord Duke of Richmond the Marquisse of Hertford the Earle of Southampton the Earle of Kingston the Lord Dunsmore Lord Capell Lord Seymour Sir Christopher Hatton Sir Iohn Culpeper Sir Edward Nicholas Sir Edward Hyde Sir Richard Lane
Scotland the which for the present we have not had time to do having wholy spent these three dayes in the perfecting the paper delivered to your Lordships this day and the debates in preparation thereof And at the same time their Commissioners delivered in this Paper 6. Feb. YOur Lordships paper which we have received so late at the LXXXVI end of the third day appointed to Treat upon the Militia on which we expected a satisfactory answer to our demands concerning it is very far differing from what we have proposed and unsatisfactory to our just and necessary desires for securing the Peace of the Kingdoms and wherein we cannot but observe that the Kingdom of Scotland is wholy omitted We do therefore insist upon our paper formerly delivered concerning the Militia and desire your Lordships full and cleare answer being ready by conference to remove all obiections which may be made to the contrary The King's Commissioners Answer thereupon 6. February WE conceive the paper delivered by us to your Lordships LXXXVII may justly satisfie your Lordships for the secureing the Peace of this Kingdome against all Forces that may any wayes endanger it at home or from abroad for securing the performance of all things that shall be agreed in this Treaty and we are ready by Conference to make the reasonablenes thereof appeare and to receive any reasons from your Lordships to the contrary And as touching Scotland we hope your Lordships will be satisfied by the last paper we delivered to you Their Paper 6. Feb. IN our last Paper we insisted upon our former demands for the LXXXVIII Militia and offered by Conference to satisfie your Lordships of the reasonablenes of them if any doubts remained with you to the contrary which we are still ready to doe they being the proper subject of this part of the Treaty And whereas your Lordships have in your Paper referred what concernes the Kingdom of Scotland unto another time and seemes to intend it a severall answer both Kingdoms being united in the same cause and under the same danger and mutually providing for the joynt safety and security of both and each other our Propositions are joyntly made by both and are inconsistent with a divided answer The King's Commissioners Answer 6. Feb. WHereas your Lordships have offered in your last paper LXXXIX to satisfie us by Conference of the reasonablenes of your demands if any doubts remaine with us to the contrary We desire to receive satisfaction by Conference that it is reasonable for us to grant the nomination of the persons by the two Houses only and that the time ought not to be limited Their Paper 6. Feb. AS we have given to your Lordships our Propositions for the XC Militia of both Kingdoms in writing so do we again desire your Lordships full and clear answer to them both in writing and we are ready to answer any doubts you shall make upon them in order as we delivered them and as they do relate to both Kingdoms but we cannot Treat upon your Lordships answer which divides them The three first dayes allotted for the Treaty upon the Militia being spent and that subject resumed upon Fryday the 14 Saturday the 15 and Monday the 17 of February In those dayes diverse Papers were delivered and some debates had touching the nomination of the Persons who were to be entrusted with the Militia whether they should all be nominated by the two Houses only and touching the time how long they should have it and whether the same should be unlimited as it was in the Propositions or be limited to a certain time as likewise concerning the Powers of the English and Scottish Commissioners for the Militia which are so intermingled in the Propositions that it was not well understood upon the Propositions how far the Commissioners of one Kingdome and their power might extend unto and have influence upon the other the one upon the Government of the other and concerning some other passages having relation to the Militia which would be intricate if they sh●uld be set downe in the order of time as they were delivered and because sometimes diverse papers were delivered together therefore they are here placed according to their distinct matters And first touching the nomination of Persons and limitation of the time The King's Commissioners delivered in this Paper 14. Febr. IF your Lordships are not satisfied with the * See no. 84. Papers delivered XCI to your Lordships by us on the 6. of February concerning the Militia as farre as the same concernes this Kingdome we desire according to your Lordships offer in your * See no. 86 88. first and second Paper delivered to us the sixth of February that your Lordships will satisfie us of the reasonablenesse of your demands and that the nominating of the Persons ought to be by the two Houses only and that the time ought not to be limited Their Answer 14. Feb. BY your Lordships Paper received this day we apprehend XCII your desire to proceed in the Treaty upon the Propositions for the Militia as farre as the same concernes this Kingdome without any mention of the Kingdom of Scotland In answer whereunto we referre your Lordships to a former Paper of the 6. of February instant whereby we desired your full and clear answer to our Propositions for the Militia of both Kingdoms in order as we have delivered them and as they doe relate to both Kingdoms and that we could not Treat upon your Lordships answer which divides them We still insist on that Paper and when your Lordships shall be pleased to give an answer thereunto we shall be ready to cleare any doubts which may remaine with your Lordships The King's Commissioners Reply 14. Febr. VVE doe desire to proceed in the Treaty upon the Proposition XCIII for the Militia as the same concernes both Kingdoms joyntly as well as either of them severally neither is the contrary expressed as we conceive in the Paper delivered by us to your Lordships this day But we cannot reasonably Answer to them as they concerne one or both Kingdoms before we receive satisfaction from your Lordships of the reasonablenesse of your demands which your Lordships were pleased to promise us by two of your Papers of the sixth of February and which we againe desire of your Lordships concerning the Persons and the time conceiving it unreasonable that all the Persons shall be nominated only by the Houses and that the time should be unlimited Their Answer 15. Feb. VVEE have formerly desired your Lordships answer to XCIV the Propositions for the Militia in order as we delivered them and as they doe relate to both Kingdoms and not to give any Answer which shall divide them Yet we observe in the matter of your Lordships * See the Paper intended no. 105. third Paper yesterday received that you desire satisfaction in the Particulars there mentioned as the same concerne