us the sixth seventh eighth and ninth L. C. J. How many days did he travel along with you Sir Jo. Southcot He travel'd along with us four days together I am sure L. C. J. What from the fifth to the ninth Sir Jo. Southcot Yes Sir L. C. J. Is this all that you can say Sir Jo. Southcot Yes my Lord. L. C. J. But we would know where he was afterwards did you see him after the ninth Sir Jo. Southcot My Lord I saw him at St. Albans and we went from thence to Northampton and from thence to Coventry and from thence to my Lord Astons that is four days and I saw him Thursday I saw him Friday Saturday and Monday following Tuesday I had occasion to go further into the Countrey and he went along with us so I saw him Tuesday Wednesday Thursday and Fryday afterwards L. C. J. Why then you saw him at least twelve days Sir Jo. Southcot Yes L. C. J. Have you any more Then Mr. Edward Southcot stood up L. C. J. Were you here when Ireland was tried Sir Jo. Southcot No. L. C. J. Did you see Mr. Ireland in August last Mr. Southcot The third of August he came down to my Lord Astons at Stanmore they said so but I cannot swear he came that night but I saw him very early the next morning the 5th we went to St. Albans and we kept on till we came to Tinall and I was in his company from the 4th to the 16th L. C. J. Why you hear what he says he was in Company with him every day from the 4th to the 16th Gavan Call Mrs. Harewell and her daughter Mrs. Gifford and Mrs. Pendrel Then Mrs. Harewell stood up L. C. J. Did you see Mr. Ireland in August last Harewell I saw Ireland in August last the 17th day he came then to my house at Wolverhampton and there he continued every day and lay in my house every night till the 26th day Then young Mrs. Harewell stood up Harewell Mr. Ireland came to our house in Staffordshire the 17th of August and stayed there till the 26th I saw him every day unless it was Friday the day before Bartholomew-day when he went to Litehfield and returned again Gavan My Lord there is a Prisoner now in Newgate that can testifie the same L. C. J. North. Would you ask your fellow if you be a Thief he is in for the same offence Gavan My Lord I desire to know if a man be not convicted of the same offence whether he be not a good witness L. C. J. North. If he stand charged with the same Plot his Evidence is of little weight Then Elisabeth Keiling stood up L. C. J. Did you see Mr. Ireland in August Keiling Yes my Lord I did p. 73. L. C. J. Where did you see him Keiling I saw him at Wolverhampton there he was from Saturday the 17th to Monday and then I went to see my Mother and came back again on Thursday and found him there and there he was till the 26th Then stood up Mr. Gifford L. C. J. When did you see Mr. Ireland Gifford My Lord Mr. Ireland came to Wolverhampton the 17th of August and he stayed there till the 26th it was of a Monday I remember it by several circumstances L. C. J. Did you know Mr Ireland Gifford I never saw him before L. C. J. Do you know it was the same that died Gifford My Lord here was my brother in Town who saw him executed and he did assure me he was the same I saw him again the 2d of September and the 7th of September again and the 10th and the 11th my Lord he was the same man I believe because my brother told me so p. 74. Sir Cr. Levins Gentlemen of the Jury you have heard the Prisoners and they have had a great deal of time to make their defence but the greatest part of their defence hath been to invalidate the Testimony of Mr. Oates and what is the Evidence they have brought against him they tell you first that he did not come over in this Company that he says he came over with And whereas he hath sworn he was here the 24th of April they have taken a great deal of pains by fifteen or sixteen Witnesses to prove that he was all the time at St. Omers P. 76. Sir C. Levins Now as for Mr. Oates Testimony and what they have to say to him in the first place they have brought a young Gentleman Mr. Hilsley and he says he did not come over with him and there 't is one against one but Dr. Oates hath Sworn it and hath given you such convincing Circumstances how he lost his money c. so that I leave it to you which of the two is in the right and ought to be believed But then my Lord as to the rest of the Witnesses here are a great many brought over to prove that Dr. Oates was all the while at St. Omers but I shall bring you a considerable number of Witnesses to prove that Dr. Oates was then in London and that all these Persons are mistaken They do all pitch upon the first of May to six it upon a time wherein he says he was here in Town But Gentlemen I hope you did observe that as to other things and time that were not so necessary as to this matter there they were pleased to mistake and to differ one from another to contradict one another for some of them said he went away and left St. Omers the 10th of June others the 23d others which was the same Flemish Gardiner that he stay'd till July Truly half that variance in the time which is necessary would serve our turn we are but for eight days time that is he was not above eight or ten days here truly these Gentlemen will be sure to speak punctually to all those eight days that hurt the Prisoners but they will vary thirty days at another time that hurts them not Why may they not be mistaken as well with that portion of time as they were in the other wherein they so much differed one from another But I shall give you most infallable proof by and by that Mr. Oates was in England at that time that he said he was in England This he does in the Trials of Whitebread c. from Pag. 79. to Pag. 85. to which the Reader is referred Pag. 77. Sir Ch. Levins Then truly my Lord they are fixed upon another great matter to blemish Dr. Oates as to Mr Ireland a person that is dead and out of the way Mr. Ireland hath been hanged upon that Evidence so far it was believed but now after all this will these Gentlemen come to question the Evidence that was given against Mr. Ireland They have likewise my Lord brought my Lady Southcot and some other persons who give you an Evidence concerning Mr. Ireland that he should not be here at this time but Gentlemen under favour Mr. Oates hath sworn before and
AT THE Council Chamber WHITEHALL the 16th of July 1679. PRESENT Lord Arch-Bishop of Canterbury Lord Chancellor Lord President Lord Privy Seal Marquess of Worcester Earl of Bridgwater Earl of Sunderland Earl of Essex Viscount Fauconberg Viscount Halifax Lord Robarts Mr. Secretary Coventry Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer IT was this day Ordered by their Lordships in Council That the Depositions and Letter of Robert Jenison Esq with the Attestations of Sir Michael Warton George Booth Robert Bowes William Burnet Esquires and Ralph Marshal Gentleman together with the Narrative of Charles Chetwind Esq relating to William Ireland lately executed Be Printed by such Persons as Mr. Chetwind shall appoint the same having been examined and approved by Mr. Treby late Chairman to the Secret Committee of the House of Commons John Nicholas By virtue of this Order I do appoint Henry Hills Thomas Parkhust John Starkey Dorman Newman Thomas Cockeril Thomas Simmons and Jacob Tonson to Print this Narrative and that no other presume to Print the same July the 17th 1679. Charles Chetwind A NARRATIVE OF THE DEPOSITIONS OF Robert Jenison Esq With other Material Evidences plainly proving THAT Mr. William Ireland Lately Executed for HIGH TREASON Was in London the Nineteenth of August 1678. Notwithstanding his Confident DENIAL thereof both at HIS Tryal and Execution Collected by CHARLES CHETWIND Esq LONDON Printed for Henry Hills Thomas Parkhurst John Starkey Dorman Newman Thomas Cockeril Thomas Simmons and Jacob Tonson 1679. The Publishers PREFACE IT is not unknown to all considering and judicious Persons in this Kingdom that upon the happy Discovery of the late horrid Popish Plot against his Majesties Person and Government and the Establisht Protestant Religion and upon the Apprehension Arraignment Trial and Condemnation of several of the Conspirators many Artifices have been used by Persons of the same Persuasion to defame the Witnesses produced for the King and to invalidate their Testimonies in order whereunto several Witnesses have been procured first at the Trial of Ireland and after at the Trial of White alias Whitebread c. many of them Scholars belonging to the English Seminary at St. Omers instructed no doubt and sent over to act viis modis for the preservation of their Conducters and Leaders to testifie that Dr. Titus Oates one of the principal Witnesses for his Majesty was at St. Omers at the same time when he upon his Oath affirms himself to have been in London other Witnesses have been also produced to prove that Mr. Ireland lately Executed was in Staffordshire at those days and times when Dr. Oates Mr. Bedloe and one Sarah Pain attest upon their Oaths that they saw him in London as by the Printed Trials of Ireland and Whitebread c. does appear such a failure in Circumstance of time and place is of so great consequence in this case that if made out it would render the said Persons unworthy the names of just and lawful Witnesses and for that reason their Adversaries put so much stress upon it that not contented with the determination of the matter at the Trial and Condemnation of Ireland they again resume it at the Trial of Whitebread c. and by their St. Omers Youths endeavour to fasten falsehood on Dr. Oates and by consequence to impeach the credit of his Testimony and the justice of their Condemnation As to the first particular concerning Dr. Oates his Testimony is justly secured and he himself indubitably proved to have been in London at the times by him mentioned and deposed by the concurrent evidence of divers creditable Persons given in upon Oath at the Trial of Whitebread so that the Stratagem which his Antagonists did use to destroy or at least depretiate his Testimony hath by a gracious emergency of Divine Providence turned to a strong confirmation thereof and for ever set him as to this point Rectus in curia a good and lawful Witness in reference to all the Evidence already given and which hereafter may be given by him in any future Trials Their design failing herein their next attempt was to entrap him and the rest in relation to Mr. Ireland whom the Witnesses they produce affirm to have been in Staffordshire and other places out of London all the Month of August from the fifth of August to the fourteenth of September whereas Dr. Oates Mr. Bedloe and Sarah Pain depose that they saw him in London within that time To clear the Truth of this Particular and to justifie the Evidence of Dr. Oates and the rest the Testimony of Mr. Jenison is a pregnant demonstration which I thought truly to deserve my utmost dilligence to bring to light and in order thereunto communicated the same to the Right Honourable the Earl of Shaftsbury and by his appointment to Justice Warcup before whom Mr. Jenisons Depositions and the Attestations of the worthy Gentlemen hereafter mentioned were taken and in whose hands if not transmitted by him to the Clerk of his Majesties Council the Originals of the ensuing Papers are to be seen and whose joint endeavours for the Discovery of the Truth in this as well as other particulars relating to the Plot deserve an honourable mention The occasion of what is here publisht arising from several passages in the Trials of Ireland and Whitebread c. those passages are here extracted and presented to the Readers view that having the case before him he may apply this evidence thereto whereby his judgment will be clear The Reader will find this short discourse divided into three parts The First relates the means and manner of obtaining the Letter and Depositions of that worthy Person Mr. Jenison The Second exhibits the Letter and Depositions The Third some observations thereupon for the full satisfaction of all unbiass'd minds in the matter Controverted THE NARRATIVE UPon the 15th of June in this present year 1679. Charles Chettwind of Westminster Esq had occasionally some discourse with a Gentleman till then unknown to him to wit Mr. Griffith of Grayes-Inn Barrister at Law concerning the five Traitors that had been condemned the Saturday before and their attempt to prove Mr. William Ireland alias Ironmonger lately executed for High-Treason to have been in Staffordshire and on his Journey thither from the 5th of August 1678 till the 7th of September following and not to have been within that time in London which as Mr. Oates and others had upon his Tryal affirmed him to be there about the 12th of that Month and to be returned thither again about the beginning of September whereupon the said Mr. Griffith told Mr. Chetwind that Sir Michael Warton of Beverly in the County of York Knight a Worthy Member of the Honourable House of Commons in the last Parliament told him that since the execution of Ireland Mr. Jenison a Gentleman of very good Quality and a Student in Grays-Inn who was a Romanist till about January last affirmed that Mr. Ireland was in London about the middle of August and that he was with
him then at a Scriveners at the Sign of the White-hart in Russel-Street in Covent Garden which relation he confirm'd with several other notable circumstances Mr. Chetwind having heard this went to Whitehall and there attending on the Right Honourable the Earl of Shaftsbury Lord President of his Majesties Privy Council acquainted his Lordship with what Mr. Griffith had told him upon which the said Earl of Shaftsbury told Mr. Chetwind that it would be very considerable if it could be made out Mr. Chettwind thus encouraged by the said Earl did by his order make it his business the next morning being Tuesday June the 16th to find out Sir Michael Warton and coming to the Coffee House in Covent Garden where Sir Michael used to be when in Town Mr. Chetwind met there with Mr. Ralph Marshal Secretary to the Earl of Craven who upon discourse told Mr Chetwind that Sir Michael lived at Hampstead this Summer Mr. Marshal understanding something of the business for which Mr. Chettwind enquired after Sir Michael said that Sir Michael had often related to him and he was sure he would justifie it that the said Mr. Jenison of Grays-Inn who was lately come over to the Protestant Religion a person of considerable quality and Heir to a good Estate his elder Brother being a priest and in Newgate told him the said Sir Michael in the presence of several other Gentlemen of Quality presently after the execution of Ireland the severall following particulars which they had hitherto taken no care to discover because they expected not that the evidence given in the Triall against him the said Ireland would after his execution come into question or debate The Particulars were these That in the month of August 1678. when His Majesty was at Windsor Mr. Jenison going to Windsor on Saturday the 17th of August and returning the 19th immediately upon his return that night he went to give Mr. Ireland the same person who was afterwards executed a visit and found him at the Sign of the Hart in Russel-Street in Covent Garden and after a Salute Mr. Ireland asked him several Questions as What newes from Windsor how his Majesty spent his time and what recreations he followed and whither he walked abroad much and how guarded to which Mr. Jenison answered that his Majestie delighted much in Hawking and Fishing but most in the latter which his Majesty followed early in the morning with some few persons attending him upon which Mr. Ireland replyed I wonder his Majesty is no better guarded he were easily taken off whereupon Mr. Jenison said God forbid or words to that effect which made Mr. Ireland stop his discourse Mr. Marshal reporting this to Mr. Chetwind in presence of Mr. Ash and Mr. Spicer two persons of unquestionable reputation Mr. Ash replied that he was last night in company with Mr. Griffith and Mr. Booth Son to my Lord De la More where he heard them discourse of this very Business Mr. Booth saying that he heard Mr. Jenison speak the same things whereupon Mr. Marshall undertook to go that very Day to Hampstead to Sir Michael Warton and give Mr. Chetwind an account of it the next Morning Mr. Ash and Mr. Spicer also before Mr. Chetwind and they parted having promised to go to Mr. Booth met him who justified every syllable of what he had said and withall remembred very well that when Sir Michael Warton took some particular Notice of it Mr. Jenison seemed to be surprised and was sorry he had uttered those Words and began to recall them as to the time only of Ireland's being in Town But says Mr. Bowes who was there present a Person of Quality of Grayes-Inn and well esteemed in your House Jenison you cannot retract your Words for I have a Letter under your own Hand which will put you in mind of the Time and repeats the very same thing The Fryday following being the 20th of June Mr. Booth and Mr. Bowes met with Mr. Jenison and discoursed the matter with him who then owned all the Questions which Ireland asked him namely What News at Windsor how his Majesty spent his time c. But says he I desire a days time to consider that I may be exact as to the Day when they were spoken for several Persons have told me of a great many out of Staffordshire who upon the Tryal of the 5 Traitors Whitebread c. had proved Mr. Ireland to be in Staffordshire from the 5th of August to the 7th of September and therefore I must seriously consider what time it was that I saw him in London upon which they appointed to dine together on Saturday following being the 21 of June Which Day being come there met Sir Michael Warton Mr. Jenison Mr. Bowes Mr. Booth Mr. Griffith and Mr. Marshall and there they shewed Mr. Jenison his Letter which he acknowledged to be writ by his own Hand and further told them that upon the 15th of August he came to London from Tunbridge that upon the 17th he went to Windsor and upon the 19th he returned to London again and either that Night or the next Day he had this Discourse with Mr. Ireland at the Sign of the Hart in Russel-street in Covent Garden further he related that on the 4th of September following he went from London into the North returning back to London in the ensuing November and so presently after removed to Reading from whence he writ the forementioned Letter of Mr. Bowes This Confession of his Mr. Marshal took in Writing at that very Time when they dined together all of them being present as also a true Copy of his Letter writ from Reading both which he brought to Mr. Chetwind the same Night immediately upon which Mr. Chetwind and he carried them to my Lord of Shaftsbury his Lordship the next Day being the 22d of June communicating them to my Lord Chancellor and several others of his Majesties Privy Council The following Day viz. June23d Mr. Chetwind brought Mr. Bowes and Mr. Marshall with the Original Letter to the Earl of Shaftsbury before whom Mr. Jenison acknowledged the Letter to be his own with the circumstances thereunto referring concerning Time and Place These things will receive a sufficient Confirmation if we do but seriously peruse all the ensuing Informations taken before one of his Majesties Justices of the Peace for the County of Middlesex as you will see by his Subscription at the Close as also the Subscriptions of those that gave the Informations The Information of Sir Michael Warton Knight About the month of February last Mr. Bowes and Mr. Burnet of Grayes-Inn and my self went to dine together at the Mirmaid at Grayes-Inn Gate in Holborn whither Mr. Jenison an Acquaintance of Mr. Bowes accidentally came into the Room so that we dined together and upon general Discourses at Dinner we were talking of Mr. Irelands Tryal or Execution whereupon Mr. Bowes begun the discourse of a Letter he had from Mr. Jenison which he thought if
Arlingtons at such a day a week after the King went to Windsor and that was about the 13th and she saw you a week before she went to my Lord Arlingtons which must be the 12th or 13th You say you went out of Town the 3d of August who can Swear you did not come back again To which Ireland says all the house can testify I did not come to my Lodging his Mother also affirmed it but they were Parties p. 59. Dr. Oates here comes in with his Information and reports it to my Lord C. Justice thus My Lord whenever we had a mind to come to Town we commonly writ our Letters and let them come to Town two days after us so that we might prove by the Writing of such Letters if any Question did arise that we could not be at such a Place at a such time And when we pretended to go into the Country we have gon and taken a Chamber in the City and have had frequent Cabals at our Chambers There Mr. Ireland writ a Letter as Dated at St. Omers when I took my leave of him at his own Chamber which was betwixt the 12th and 24th in London he was there and afterwards when I went to Fenwicks Chamber he came thither a Fortnight or Ten Days at least I am sure it was in August p. 60. Upon which and what went before my Lord Ch. Justice Reflects as follows Here are 3 Witnesses upon Oath about this one thing Here is Mr. Bedloe that Swears the Fact upon which the Question arises to be in August that you deny and say you were out of Town then he produces a Maid here and she Swears that about that time which by Calculation must be about the 12th or 13th she saw you going into your own house And here is a 3d Witness who Swears he knows nothing of the matter of Fact but he knows you were in Town then and that he took his leave of you as going to St. Omers p. 60. In the next place Ireland produceth one Harrison a Coachman to testifie that he was in his Company from the 5th of August to the 16th and at that time he was with him 3 or 4 days at my Lord Astons House at Tixall in Staffordshire p 62. In which time Mr. Ireland might easily steal a Journey to London and return without notice being taken of it and this might be the time in which Sarah Pain saw him Also Harrison affirmed that he was with Mr. Ireland at Westchester and that there he left him And here let it be remembred that Mr. Ireland confidently averred himself to be in Staffordshire all August p. 56. and one of his own Witnesses declared him to be even in another County which he granted to be true but came off with this Evasion in Staffordshire or thereabout P. 61 62. You may here take a view of Irelands Dying Words concerning the thing in Hand delivered January 24. at the Common Place of Execution We are come hither upon the Theatre of the World and we do conceive we lye under an obligation to speak And 1st we do confess that we do pardon all and every one whatsoever that had any Interest or Concern or Hand in the taking away our Lives 2dly We do here profess and acknowledge we are obliged that if we were Guilty of any Treason or knew any Person faulty therein although he were our Father we would detect and discover him And as for our Selves we would beg a thousand and a thousand Pardons both of God and man but seeing we cannot be believed we must beg leave to commit our selves to the mercy of Almighty God and we hope to find a pardon of Him As for my own Part having been twenty years out of England and then coming over I was resolved to take a Journey into Staffordshire and setting out in August and not returning back to this Town untill before the 14th day of September as many Witnesses can testifie for I believe an hundred or more saw me there Therefore now how in this time we should be accused of Treasonable Stratagems I do not well know or in any wise understand Thus much out the Tryals of Ireland c. But because Mr. Ireland's not being in London from about the beginning of August till about the beginning of September A. D. 1678. is urged and prosecuted with more importunity in the Tryals of White aliàs Whitebread c. I shall here present you with the whole that referred to this matter as debated in the Court only leaving out every thing that had not a special Reference to the thing Intended to wit the Proving Mr. Ireland out of Town for the whole forementioned time Whitebread My Lord I have only this and I desire to be heard in this point to prove that Mr. Oates was mistaken in his Evidence that he gave at the last Tryal against Mr. Ireland L. C. J. Look you I must break in upon you you have been told so often all of you have been told it and yet you are upon the former Trials again You are now upon your tryal for your Life if you could have disproved any thing that he said at a former Tryal you should have taken a legal way and convicted him of Perjury but now to charge him with a Printed paper is not fair You must speak to what he says now Whitebread He says the same now But all that I say is this if he be not honest he can be witness in no case I suppose if any one can prove him not Probus Testis his Testimony is not to be received in any case L. C. J. But how will you prove that Come on I 'le teach you a little Logick If you will come to contradict a Witness you ought to do it in a matter which is the present debate here for if you would convict him of any thing that he said in Irelands Tryal we must try Irelands Cause over again But if you will say any thing against what he says now do Whitebread That which I would aledge is this if he be convicted of Perjury in one Case he is not to be believed in another L. C. J. You say right if he be convicted Whitebread He is not only then an incompetent Witness for he cannot be said to be Probus Testis but he is Improbus Now this is that I can prove Mr. Just Pemberton Nay you must shew it by a Record L. C. J. You cannot have so little understanding you that have been and were to be so great a Man among them had been Provincial and was to have been somewhat else I have told you already that to prove him to be a man that hath no Faith in him he must be convicted You must have indicted him and convicted him of the thing wherein he did commit Perjury and then he had been prepared to justifie himself But shall you come now and at this your Tryal and prove what he said at Staley's Tryal
and Colemans Tryal and Irelands Tryal And must we examine what matters have receiv'd a Verdict and a Judgement there for consider what will be the consequence of it if it should be false you there arraign a Verdict You should have convicted him of the falshood first Whitebread I desire the Jury to take notice that he does not stick to the Testimony that he gave then for if he does it was false L. C. J. They must not take notice of any thing that was done at a former Tryal unless it be spoken of now P. 69. L. C. J. North. Do not call any witnesses to prove what he said then but to disprove what he hath said now Harcourt Mr. Oates did accuse me of paying Fourscore pounds at my Chamber and he did say afterwards it was at Wild-house I have Persons to justifie what was done at my own Chamber and he says Mr. Ireland was by now here are Witnesses to prove that Mr. Ireland was in Staffordshire all the month of August therefore he could not be present P. 70. Mr. J. Pemberton That was urged before pray do not insist upon that it hath received a Tryal L. C. J. I 'le tell you what he says and I 'le ask him the question Dr. Oates it is supposed by your Testimony that Mr. Ireland and Mr. Harcourt were together when this Fourscore pounds was paid for the Villains that went to Windsor to murther the King Dr. Oates I never said such a word Harcourt Here it is in the Tryal L. C. J. I stand not by the Printed Tryal it is no Record in Law In short Were Mr. Ireland and Mr. Harcourt together at that time Dr. Oates No they were not Gavan He did then say that he did receive of Mr. Ireland the 2d of September 20s that he borrowed of him now the 2d of September he was at Boscobel Dr. Oates My Lord I was not positive as to the Day but as near as I remember those were the words I said it was the 2d of September but whether it was the First Second Seventh Eighth or Ninth I would not be positive in it Then the Prisoners called Pendrel and his Wife and Gifford and his Wife and Gifford stood up Gifford My Lord I was here the last Sessions where I did testifie the Seeing of Mr. Ireland in Staffordshire on the 24th of August bartholomew-Bartholomew-day and the next day after at which time Mr. Oates said that he saw him here in Town But Mr. Oates could not be particular in every thing but at last he came to a circumstance and averred that the first or second of September he did receive 20s of Mr. Ireland in Harcourts Chamber he said it was about the Fast-day Dr. Oates That was as near as I remembred Gifford Here is in Court at least six People that know it I saw him several other of those days there but these six People conversed with him every day Mr. J. Pemberton How do you know all that L. C. J. North. Come come you must not speak as to what he said in Irelands Tryal L. C. J. What time was it that Mr. Harcourt and Mr. Ireland conferred together about this same business Dr. Oates My Lord I do not charge Ireland but I charge Harcourt with being at Wild-house and that there Coleman met him and that there was greatest part of the money which was carried back to Harcourts Chamber and given to the person that was to carry it down to Windsor but Mr. Celeman was gone away before and had left a Guiny behind him which was given to the messenger for Expedition L. C. J. I am mistaken if you have not testified that Ireland was in Town in August and September with Harcourt Dr. Oates Ireland took his leave of London betwixt the 8th and 12th of August as to go to St. Omers p. 71. Lord Ch. Just Here is the matter they must have right though there be never so much time lost and patience spent say they we must prove and contradict men by such matters as we can People may swear down-right things and 't is impossible to contradict them but we will call witnesses to prove those particulars that can be proved say where Mr. Ireland was in August Dr. Oates He took his leave of us in Town in August and that was between the Eighth and Twelfth at Harcourts Chamber L. C. J. What do you infer from Irelands being there then Dr. Oates I le tell you what I design in it your Lordship may perceive that I did methodize my Evidence according to the time for I said this was our business in April this in July and now we come to the business of August said I we took our leaves of Mr. Ireland between the eighth and twelfth I said in July Mr. Fenwick was out of Town but then if your Lordship remembers I said he was in Town and took his leave of Mr. Ireland between the eighth and the twelfth of August L. C. J. Was Mr. Ireland in Fenwicks company at that time in August Dr. Oates Yes my Lord he was when he took his leave L. C. J. Did they talk then of this business Dr Oates They took their leaves one of another but as to what particular things of the Plot they spoke about I do not remember L. C. J. Look you now mind what he says Ireland and Fenwick were together in August between the eighth and the twelfth but bâ—ing 〈◊〉 Whether they were met on purpose to talk of the Plot he says he does not remember the Particular Here the Lady Southcot her Son and her Daughter were called L. C. J. Did you say that Fenwick there at the Bar had converse with Ireland in August for the carrying on of the Plot Dr. Oates Yes my Lord. L. C. J. My rule is this in doubtful cases when men are upon their Lives I had rather hear what is impertinent than not â—â— them make a full defence L. C. J. North. I had rather hear things at a venture than forbid things at a venture Lady Southcot stood up L. C. J. How long were you in Mr. Ireland company Lady Southcot From the fifth of August to the sixteenth L. C. Just What every day Lady Southcot Yes every day Dr. Oates My Lord here is Sarah Pain who before hath testified what she hath known in this matter If your Lordship 〈…〉 I desire she may be called in readiness to speak to it L. C. J. Are yâ—â— sure it was the fifth Lady Southcot Yes as sure as I can be of any thing Mr. Recorder Dâ— Oates you had best keep your Evidence intire till the last Then Sir Jo. Southcot was called and appeared L. C. Just Did you know Mr. Ireland Sir Jo. Southcot Yes I did know him by face L. C. J. Where did you see him Sir Jo. Southcot I saw him the 5th of August at Sir Albans L. C. J. And did he travel along with you Sir Jo. Southcot Yes he did travel along with
he hath now sworn it again that Mr. Ireland was at that time in London and Gentlemen I will confirm him in that by another Witness that did see him here in Town at that time And when you have two Witnesses for the King upon their Oaths come and testifie it I hope you will beleive them rather then other persons that testifie only by Hear-say It was the matter then in Issue and had saved his Life if it had been true but though it be now setled and none could think it would be again started they would make that an Objection but by chance we have a Witness still to give you satisfaction that Mr. Ireland was in London at that time that Mr. Oates did swear him to be We will begin with that Witness about Ireland And then we will call our Witnesses to prove that Mr Oates was in England and did come over when he said he did Call Sarah Pain who was sworn Sir Ch. Levins What time did you see Mr. Ireland in London did you see him in August last S. Pain I saw him about 7 or 8 days before I came to my Lord Chamberlain and that was about a week before the King went to Windsor L. C. J. Where did you see him S. Pain At his own door in Russel-street L. C. J. Did you speak to him S. Pain No I knew him very well and saw him as I came by Sir Ch. Levins Had not you carried many Letters to him S. Pain Yes several Letters p. 78. Sir Ch. Levins But where did you live before S. Pain I lived at Mr. Grove's Sir Ch. Levins Did not Mr. Ireland use to come there too S. Pain Yes he did often L. C. Just Was any one talking with Ireland then S. Pain No. Sir Ch. Levins How long did you look upon him did you see him go in did you see his face or his back S. Pain I saw his face and made him a Courtesie L. C. J. This she said to Irelands face Mr. J. Dolben Your Evidence is that Mr. Ireland went out of Town the 5. of August and she says she saw him about that time which must be the 12th or 14th of August Gavan How does she prove it she does not say she spoke with him Mr. Just Dolben She swears it Sir Ch. Levins Now we must prove what time the King went to Windsor L. C. J. Sir Tho. Doleman what time in August did the King go to Windsor last Summer Sir Tho. Doleman I believe I cannot charge my memory so well it was the 13th it was about the 12th or 13. L. C. J. Was my Lord Chamberlain there then S. Pain My Lord Chamberlain went after the King L. C. J. And when do you say you saw Ireland S. Pain I saw him seven or eight days before I went to my Lord Chamberlains which was before my Lord went to Windsor and that was a week after the King went thither Sir Ch. Levins Now I 'le tell you what she says she says she saw Ireland a week before she went to my Lord Chamberlain's and she saw him go into Grove's House where he did usually go for Letters She says she saw his face and made him a Courtesie and that this was a week before she went to my Lord Chamberlains and that was a week after the King went to Windsor Now the time that Mr. Oates pitches upon is between the eighth and the twelfth of August which by computation is the time she speaks of P. 79. Gavan My Lord we have here 16 at least Staffordshire Witnesses who give you an account of Mr. Ireland's being out of London from the 3d of August till 14th of September So that in these two things he hath been contradicted without any answer for he says the 12th of August he was with him when they say he was in Staffordshire L. C. J. You have forgot the maid that saw him in London the 12. or 13th Gavan No my Lord I have not And this is it I answer to it she is a witness that only says she just saw him but did not speak to him L C. J. She made a Courtesie to him P. 86. Gavan We were talking now of seeing Ireland in August and we prove by Sir Jo. Southcot and all his Family who say they began their journey with him the 5th of August and staid with him till the 19th after the particular Day that she speaks of you find 7 or 8 of them swear that they saw him all the time P. 87. I will close up the Whole with a little of my Lord Chief Justices Speech at the end of the Tryals of Whitebread c. p. 92 93. Which though it may not at first seem to answer our particular design the demonstrating Ireland's being in London yet it truly answers our general design to conâ—â—â—â— the reality of the Plot and in order thereunto it is a most noble Argument and really merits not only the transcribing into this Tract to fill up an empty space but even into the memories of all true Protestants L. C. J. I will challenge all the Papists in England to satisfie any man that hears me this day of one piece of Evidence which will turn every Protestants heart against the Papists If so be they murdered Sir Edmund-Bury Godfrey the Plot even by that is in a great measure proved upon them by that base murther And what can be a plainer proof of it than the evidence of this Day which Mr. Dugdale produces Who had notice saith he on Monday night that on the Saturday before it Sir Edm. Godfrey was kill'd which falls out to be that very Saturday he was first missing which notice was given in a Letter writ by Harcourt to Ewers ' another Priest that same Saturday night wherein were these words This night Sir Edmund-bury Godfrey is dispatched and I am sure if this be true then no man can say but they murdered Him Now the question is whether it be true or no To make it out he produces Mr. Chetwind whom I hope you will not deny to be a Gentleman of one of the best Families of his Country and of honest Reputation who says that on the Tuesday following that Saturday Sir Edmund-bury Godfrey was miss't he and another were walking together in Staffordshire and that the other Person asked him if he knew of the Death of any Justice of the Peace at Westminster and when he told him he had heard of no such thing No said he that is strange you living sometimes about Westminster for said he the Wench at the Ale-house says That this morning Mr. Dugdale said to two other Gentlemen there was a Justice of Peace of Westminster killed and Mr. Dugdale swears That was Sir Edmund-bury Godfrey now if Dugdale be fit to be believed that he saw such a Letter as he must be if he be not a very great Prophet to be able to foretell this or if the Maid that said this did not invent it a thing then impossible to be done or Mr. Chetwind feigned that he heard the Man make his report from the Maid this thing could not come to pass but by these men Nay if Mr. Dugdale could not do as great a Miracle as any are in the Popish Legends how could he tell that it was done on the same Night when it was done at London or speak of it on the Monday night after when it was not known in London till the Thursday following This will stick I assure you Sirs upon all your Party For my own part this evidence of Mr. Dugdals gives me the greatest satisfaction of any thing in the World in this matter and whilst we rest satisfied in the Murder of that Man and are morally certain you must do it knowing of what Principles you are you cannot blame us if upon such manifest reasons we lay it upon you And this is occasional Evidence which I for my part never heard before this day nor can I ever be more or better satisfied then I am upon this point viz. The Testimony that I have received this afternoon concerning the murder of Sir Edmund-bury Godfrey As to the defences they have made they are exceptions in point of time but do not effect Mr. Dugdale for they have hardly the confidence to deny the things he says to be true against them They fall foul indeed upon Mr. Oates He appears to have been their Agent and whilst so bad enough but if he had not had a mind to have become a good man he would not likely have done us that good that he hath done in discovering the Design you had engaged him in let any man judge by your Principles and Practices what you will not do for the promoting of the same FINIS
give just ground of scruple that a large freedom is allowed to them on that account but it would be too tedious to turn over the Popish Casuists for the deciding of that controversie leaving therefore the Scholastical and skirmishing part to abler pens I shall content my self to exhibit one passage relating to the matter in hand mentioned in a Book called the Jesuits Catechism composed almost 60 years since by a Member of the Roman Church but not of the Ignatian Order His words mentioned lib. 3. Cap. 12. at the end of that Chapter are there They says he speaking of the Jesuits have a rule in practice that men are bound to accuse themselves to their Confessors and not themselves only but all their Confederates also and for the Magistrate the Malefactor being condemned to die after he hath once made Confession of his sins to his Ghostly Father he is not tied to reveal it to his Judge nay it is lawful for him to stand in stiff denial thereof at the time of his Execution as being clear before God though he persist in a lie after he hath once discharged the depth of his conscience to his Confessor A thing that the same Author subjoyns that breedeth much scruple in the mind of a Judge who otherwise is greatly quieted in conscience when an offender adjudged to die howsoever he have beforetime stood in denial of the Fact yet at the time of his death confesseth the Truth An Abstract of the Material Passages at the Trials of Mr. Ireland and Mr. Whitebread relating to Mr. Ireland 's being in London about the middle of August 1678. tending to clear much of the matter of Fact mentioned in the foregoing Papers The things for which Ireland was indicted were The conspiring the King's Death also That he did indeavour and contrive to change and alter the Religion established in the Nation and introduce Popery in the room of it pag. 13. of Ireland's Trial And in order thereunto that Pickering and Grove should assassinate the King p. 19. which Resolve Ireland signed about the 24th of April 1678. p. 19 20. Pickering and Grove failing in August following Mr. Ireland and others met at Harcourt's Chamber and their held a close Consultation how to accomplish their Design of killing the King which they determin should be by Four Russians whom they actually hire and dispatch away to Windsor in order to the accomplishing that most Barbarous and most Treasonable Project where Dr. Oates saw Mr. Ireland present p. 26. and 40. The Russians also failing to kill the King at Windsor they determin That Pickering and Grove should go on and that Conyers should be joyned with them to Assassinate the King in his Morning-walks at New-Market this they had taken so strongly upon them that they were very eager to accomplish it p. 41. These things Ireland was accused of by Mr. Bedlce Dr. Oates affirming that he took his leave of Mr. Ireland in his own Chamber between the Twelfth and Four and twentieth of August Ireland being then Writing a Letter as Dated from St. Omers and that afterward when Dr. Oates went to Fenwicks Chamber Ireland came thither also so that he saw him twice about a Fortnight within August p. 60. Sarah Pain Confirmed both their Evidence by Swearing that she saw him about the same time at the Door of his own House p. 57. These things Mr. Ireland denys and indeavours to disprove their Evidence only as to time because not in London in August last i. e. in A. D. 1678. but in Staffordshire p. 46. and 56. and this he attempts chiefly to prove against Dr. Oates in Order to the Nullifying his Evidence and so confidently affirms himself not in London for the whole of that August this he offers to prove by Twenty Witnesses p. 44. and 56. and says First he would indeavour to prove that there was not Two Witnesses against him for that which Mr. Oates said of his being at Harcourts Chamber in August was false for he was all August long out of Town in Staffordshire upon the Third Day he went down to Staffordshire with my Lord Aston and his Lady and his Son and Sir John Southcot and his Lady and saith he all these can Testify that I went down with them here is Mr. John Aston in Town if he may be found who was in my Company all August in Staffordshire p. 56. But to save him that Labour the Kings Evidence offered to prove that he was in Town at that time for which they Swore Sarah Pain who affirmed she knew Mr. Ireland and that she saw him in Town in August last at his own House which was at a Scriveners in Russel-street in Covent Garden about a week before she went with my Lord Arlington to Windsor which was about a week after the King was gone thither which Sir Tho. Doloman said was about the 13th of August How she knew him was because he came often to her Masters house that was Mr. Groves the Person Condemned with him averring that he was the Man that broke open the Pacquet of Letters That her Master carried about aterwards and he Sealed all the Pacquets that went beyond the Seas and he opend them still when the Answers returned them back again p. 57. Against whose Evidence he opposed that of his Sister Ann Ireland and his Mother Elinor Ireland who both said that on Saturday the Third of August he set out to go into Staffordshire and he continued there till it was a Fortnight before Michaelmas which says the Sister I remembered by a very good Circumstance because on the Wednesday before my Brother and my Mother and I were invited out to Dinner we staid there all night and all Thursday night and Friday night my Brother came home and on Saturday de set out for Staffordshire p. 58 59. Sarah Pain being again asked if she was sure that she saw him in the Place she mentioned and about the time She answered yes I am sure I saw him at that very Place and at that time but Mr. Ireland then confidently professed he never knew her although she was Mr. Groves Servant and used to carry him Letters from her Master 's his words are I profess I do not know her 20 people may come to me and yet I not know them and she having been Mr. Groves servant might have brought me Letters and yet I not remember her p. 58 59. But my L. C. Justice thus recapitulates Sarah Pains Evidence against him she says that she saw you in London about the 10th or 12th of August and she makes it out by a Circumstance which is better Evidence then if she had come and Swore the precise day wherein she saw you for I should not have been satisfied unless she had given me a good account why she did know it to be such a Day She does it by Circumstance by which we must calculate she saw you about the 12th or 13th day she went to my Lord