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A00759 A defence of the liturgie of the Church of England, or, Booke of common prayer In a dialogue betweene Nouatus and Irenæus. By Ambrose Fisher, sometimes of Trinitie Colledge in Cambridge. Fisher, Ambrose, d. 1617.; Grant, John, fl. 1630. 1630 (1630) STC 10885; ESTC S122214 157,602 344

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obseruation Doe you impugne Subscription in Word or Deed for many Conforme which will not Subscribe N. We approue not them For a daily publique Conformitie is more then a single and almost solitary Subscription Now generally against Subscription I thus dispute To subscribe to a thing that shall be altred is vnlawfull But a new Translation is expected and new Homilies promised to bee set forth by common authoritie Ergo. I. If your Maior were firme How might Ceremonia dicta est à 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to remaine for a time the Iewes in ancient time haue subscribed to the Ceremonies in Moses Law which were to bee altred by Christ Or how may Subiects sweare to the obseruation of a Law which is repealable at the next Session of a Parliament Againe your Minor doth rely vpon two dreames For first you suppose that in the new Translation all things shall bee innouated according to your doubts as Polycletus made an Image according to the minde of the multitude Secondly whereas one and twentie Homilies before promised are now extant you still suspect that some errours shall bee obtruded vpon you by authoritie N. We haue as little cause to hope the first as iust to feare the latter My next reason then is this To subscribe to knowne errours is little better then heresie But in your Seruice-booke is a masse of Errours Ergo. I. The Maior of this reason is refelled by the Minor of the former argument For if the Translation shal be corrected by reason of some errours supposed therein It is cleere that the intent of Subscription is only to oblige vs to thinke that no fundamentall errour is lurking in it seeing no Booke saue the authentique Canon of the text can claime to it selfe simple immunitie from errour The masse of errours Errorum massa Missa mentioned in your Minor will bee to massie a worke for you to proue N. My last argument doth thus proceed It is a crying sinne to subscribe to antichristianisme But such is your Liturgie according to your owne former definition as being imposed vpon the Conscience with pretended necessitie Ergo. I. Your Minor is a misprision For I said that Antichrist imposeth things indifferent as necessary to saluation But you altering the state of the question intreat about necessitie of Conformitie vnder the penalty of Depriuation Ignorantia Elenchi not of eternall life but of a momentanie liuing And yet all both Nations and Religions haue vrged this vniforme order N. Doth not then Subscription binde the Conscience I. It bindes as it is an oath tendered to God directly and yet indirectly also as it is an humane constitution So ill Positiue Lawes tie the Conscience by vertue of the fift precept of the Decalogue N. Things indifferent cannot binde Conscience But Ecclesiasticall Lawes are about things Figura dictionis quatuor termini indifferent Ergo. I. Your double medium causeth your argument to play fast and loose For Obedience in things indifferent is necessary not indifferent N. What then are wee bound to obey our lawfull Superiour in all things I. In things necessarily good wee doe immediatly obey God men only by consequence If men command things euill we obey by tollerating what they inflict not by performing what they inioyne In the first they declare what God commands to be done in the latter what to be indured Wherefore it remaineth that things indifferent alone are the proper obiect of humane Commandements N. No action is indifferent but each thing commanded is an action Ergo. I. Your medium hath two faces like Ianus For an action is to be considered either simply and alone and so it is good as being a motion depending on the first mouer Or ioyntly with Circumstances and that in a double manner First in regard of the abilitie or possibilitie whilst it may be done Secondly in the act when it is performed Before it bee done it is indifferent but once breaking out into act it becommeth distinctly good or euill according to the Circumstances which determine the same Now an action commanded is supposed as not yet done whereupon the Hebrewes call the Imperatiue Moode the first future and so remaineth many times indifferent CHAP. III. Of Feasts and Fasts N. TO omit your winding Sophistry and sundry other arguments against Subscription not as feeble but expecting a fitter place From the person commanding I passe to the things enioyned Time Place Ornaments Time I diuide into Feasts and Fasts Against your Festiuals I argue thus Dayes made holy by men are lawlesse But such are your holidayes Ergo. I. Your Maior is refuted by k Ester 9. 21. 1 Mac. 4. 59. Iohn 10. 22. the Text. N. These Feasts were appointed by Propheticall inspiration therefore not meerely by men I. This answer is like that of Sympathie and antipathie or influence of Starres and the like refuges of ignorance How know you that Queene Hester was a Prophetesse or Mordecai a Prophet Would you trust the Story of the Maccabees if there you should finde it written that Iudas was a Prophet Is not this one of the Bookes that you would hisse out of the Church Nay may wee suppose that Iudas had he beene a Prophet would haue translated to Leui that dignitie which appertained to the Tribe of Iuda N. Dayes wherein God hath permitted man to labour may not by men be sanctified But such be your Church Holidayes Ergo. I. Your Maior is doubtfull and dangerous For if you meane that daies which are not consecrated by God may not by men to him be dedicated you will soone deface all the outward face of Religion whereof the most noble act hath and doth consist in dedicating Goods and Lands to the Church But if you intend that dayes because they are indifferent may not by authoritie bee restrained and determined then doe you bring into the Church an anarchie In the one you follow Swingfeldius in the other the Anabaptist against which rocke I perceiue you often rush N. I let slip your captious inferences and hasten to the third proofe Your holidayes are dedicated to creatures therefore vnlawfull My Antecedent thus appeares The Sabbath or Lords Day you call Sunday giuing it to the Sunne which as it is reproued by Papists So some haue Rhemists vpon Apoc. 1. 10. ignorantly turned it to the Sonne of God With the like vanitie you giue Munday to the Moone Tuesday to Tuisco or Mars Wednesday to Woden or Mercurie Thursday to thundring Iupiter Friday to Frico or Venus Saturday to Saturne which Deuils were adored by Pagans I. Wee doe no more dedicate our dayes to creatures by whose names wee tearme them then the Hebrewes did the moneth Abib to an eare of Corne for so doth the word import Further I maruell that you call the Lords Day the Sabbath for the men of your ranke were wont to stile this a Iewish name But there bee some opinions that bee as short liued as
certaine creatures by the riuer Hyppanis which liue but a day Yea but the Rhemists do mislike the name Sunday By this you may coniecture that our Liturgie was not borrowed from the Missall Besides what needed Alesius to turne it into Latine if it had bin before extant in the Portuise Whereas you pretend some haue deriued Sunday from the Sonne of God true it is they deduced it from the Sonne of righteousnesse who is indeed the Sonne of the liuing God Lastly those Deuils which you pretend were and are Planets of whom euery day is named according as the Planet ruleth at midnight before As vpon Saturday night from twelue to one the Sunne raigneth so the day ensuing is called Sunday Besides that a Musicall reason is rendred Namely that the fourth Planet is inclusiuely to be reckoned from the former For example Saturne hath his dominion vpon Saturday then omitting Iupiter and Mars you shall come to Sol whose Dion in Augusto most effectuall working is vpon Sunday N. What speake you of the Superstitious ruling of Planets or ridiculous Musicke of Starres I. As it is idolatrous to worship Starres or prophesie by them ●o to denie all their naturall operations and dominions in things inferiour is wilfully to repeale the Statutes enacted in the Parliament of experience No lesse friuolous is it to deride the long obserued harmonious consent of Planets N. With the same boldnesse haue you consecrated the moneths to Ianus Februus Mars Iulius and Augustus Caesar which names you haue borrowed from the Heathens whereas the numerall names of moneths were thought in Scripture most conuenient I. Why may not moneths be stiled according to Planets aswell as Saint Luke named a Acts 17. 19. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is a hill of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Doricke word for a Spring because Springs issue out of hils Acts 17. 34 18. 24. Rom. 16. 1. 14. Phil. 2. 25. Col. 1. 7. Acts 28. 11. Ioshua 15. 10. 41. Dan. 1. 7. place Mars his Street or Hill Or why not aswell as men haue retained the names of Planets after their Baptisme For example Denis was surnamed of Bacchus Apollos of the Sun Epaphras and Epaphroditus of Venus Hermes and Mercurius of Mercury So Phebae of the Moone Was not the badge of the ship wherein Paul failed called Castor and Pollux Is not the like to bee seene in the Old Testament both in the names of Places as Bethshemesh the house of the Sunne and Beth Dagon the house of Dagon As also of Persons I will not insist as some might doe vpon this That Ianuary is not named of Ianus but of Ianua a Gate as being the entrance of the yeare Nor February of Februus but a febribus of Agues being a moneth obnoxious to that disease No nor March of Mars but because things bred therein are martiall and valiant agreeable to the Planet not to the Idoll Mars Now wheras you are displeased that moneths haue their appellations from Iulius and Augustus Caesar Why might not this be indured aswell as the Citie of Dauid or Gibea of Saul 2. Sam. 6. 10. Esay 10. 29. If Places why may not Times be tearmed after men But these names are borrowed from Heathens Did not the Hebrewes borrow the names of their moneths from the Chaldeans Except wee thinke the fourth moneth Tammuz Ezek. 8. 14. was taken from the Egyptians Was not Abib the first moneth surnamed Nisan Tisri the seuenth Ethanim Chisleu the ninth Bull Of these some are apparētly Chaldean words Lastly whereas you pretend that the numerall names of moneths as the first second c. were thought most conuenient This to bee vntrue you partly now perceiue by the other names attributed to them in Scriptures Also you know that September the three moneths following haue names from number and that in old time Iuly and August were called Quintilis and Sextilis N. To let passe your Heathen names of Dayes and Moneths I proceed to your Popish names by which you honour Creatures and especially Saints I. Religious worship of Saints is against the streame of our Church Doctrine If we praise them and God in and for them If we propound them as triumphant lights and markes of imitation with what viperous teeth can enuy carpe at vs vnlesse the same also doe gnaw out the bowels of the Primitiue Church N. Obseruation of dayes is forbidden by Paul Gal 4. 10. I. Namely as parts of Gods worship or as such necessary workes as without which saluation cannot be obtained N. Two dayes you obserue in honour of the Virgin which you hold as meerely necessarie the Purification and the Annunciation I. Wee ascribe to them no necessitie but of order Now whereas foure dayes were kept in Popery for the Virgin Mary wee haue abolished two First the day of her Conception Secondly of her Assumption the one being blasphemous the other fabulous Concerning the other two we consecrate them not to the Virgin but to Christ whose Conception is remembred vpon the day of the Annunciation and Presentation in the Temple in the day of the Purification as may bee collected both by the Collect as also because wee reckon the yeare of our Lord from the Annunciation Day N. Besides this you celebrate a day for Michael the Archangell whom you make a Creature I. If some of your owne spirit were present they would reproue your method for placing the Virgin Mary before the Angels N. I did it because I suppose you preferre her before them her that sinned before them that were euer sinlesse I. Some doubt not but that all men elect are in Christ his humanitie exalted aboue Angels How much more doth this agree to her from whom did immediately proceed that which was assumed by the Godhead through the personall Vnion Againe Christ tooke not Angels but the seed of Abraham N. The Elect indeed are said to bee equall to Luke 20. 36. Angels wherefore it seemeth they are not superiours to them I. They shall be equall to them in immortalitie as also in that they shall not need procreation Neuerthelesse in some other respect they may exceed them But now that Michael is a creature appeares first by Daniel where Dan. 10. 13. 22. Michael is called one of the chiefe Princes and therfore may not be Christ N. The Hebrew word which you translate Chiefe may be turned former I. First this cannot agree to Christ who is not one of the former but the first Prince vnlesse you make three Princes of the three Persons in the Trinitie which speech will not indure the Hammer of a good construction Secondly neither will it accord with Gabriels relation who had not made mention of any former Princes N. If this your interpretation should be granted yet Michael is but one of the Chiefe not absolutely the chiefe Angell or the Archangell as you seeme to insinuate which as it contradicteth your Communion Booke mentioning Archangels So
to shew that the People might say after the Minister not that they might answer him The reason and end whereof I cannot conceiue I. The end thereof First is to ease the Priest Secondly to raise vp in the People memory attention and zeale the first to prepare the minde the second to make it concurre with the Priest The third to apply the Publique sayings to each priuate mans vse N. If a good intention might make a good action the money changers in the Temple might be iustified which helped the people to the money of the Sanctuary but where is the warrant of your practice I. Our warrant is drawne from proportion As the Priest would not suffer Dauid and his followers to taste of the holy bread vnlesse they had beene seperate from women by analogie to Gods Commandements vpon Mount Sinai So wee cause the People to answer 1. Sam. 21. 4. Exod. 19. 15. the Priest by a proportionable reference to the practise of Miriam and Anna. Againe seeing diuers of the Psalmes are prayers And Exod. 15. 20 21 Luke 2. 38. Consider the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 publique psalmodie is approued by all men of tempered wits Wee know not why the peoples Responsals or answers in praier should be reiected N. There is no lesse errour in the matter then in the persons The first fault of the matter is their vsing of Gloria Patri which is but an human inuention I. Were it so yet were it tolerable as we shewed when wee spake of Set Prayer But true it is that Athanasius a man inuented it and the whole Church approued it which as we thinke had the Spirit of God N. That whose first vse is decayed ought to be abolished but the vse of Gloria Patri is now decayed which was to detest Arrians and Macedonians denying the God-head of Christ and of the Holy Ghost now therefore it is to bee abrogated I. First the Maior is vntrue For though the first vse of the Arke were to preserue Noah with his Family yet Moses made an Arke for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Arke to preserue things aliue Gen. 6. 14. whence Thebes was called by the houses thereof built of Cadmus ships 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 an Arke to keepe things without life Exod. 25. 10. another vse And though the first vse of Manna were to feed the people yet it was reserued in the Golden Pot many hundred yeares The like is to bee said of the Brazen Serpent which though it healed not them that looked on it yet was it kept till the dayes of Ezekias Againe your Minor is weake For at this day we know by a certaine migration of soules or art of Endor sundry both Arrians and Samosatenians and Tritheites Turkes and Iewes which doe no lesse impugne the Trinitie then did the Old Heretiques Besides the Grecians denying the Holy Ghost to proceed from the Sonne denie withall in our opinion the Sonne 's equalitie with the Father which seemeth to bee acknowledged by this Gloria Patri Are there not amongst vs many Familists which are said to disclaime the God-head of the Holy Ghost Are there not many stiffe-necked Atheists which all in their liues some in plaine words denie the Glorie Trinitie and Eternitie of God which three things are orderly combined in this Doxologie Nay is any man of that trāscendent capacitie to whom it shal not be auailable to haue this more then Super-celestiall Mysterie often inculcated into his flitting memorie N. The words wee might better indure were they not so vnseasonably reiterated at the end of all the Psalmes and sundry Hymnes I. You complaine as I heare that Alleluia Prayse yee the Lord is omitted seuenteene times in the end of certaine Psalmes and yet when we at the end of euery Psalme doe most distinctly praise God which Alleluia doth enioyne vs to doe you seeme to be in Choller Againe the end of this rehearsall is First that the ignorant which cannot reade may be aduertised where each Psalme endeth Secondly that the true vse of Psalmes which is the praising of God may bee manifested in practice Thirdly That many irreuerent persons by meanes of this which seemeth to be a kinde of prayer may bee put in minde of the dutie which is most decent in the hearing of the Psalmes namely vailing the Bonnet which many doe with as little regard neglect as they which depart from Baptisme before the Thankesgiuing Of which kinde of Sacrilegious prophanenesse we obserue many lamentable trials among the dissolute multitude N. The second fault in the matter of these prayers is found in these words after the Apostles Creed There is none other that fighteth for vs but only thou O God I. Are there not sinnes enow why make you more what is the knot in this bulrush N. First you seeme to pray for peace in your owne time without regarding the posteritie I. We pray for the one as being a blessing of God promised to two worthy Kings of Iuda 2. Kings 20. 19. 22 10. the latter we neglect not Only we dare not presume that peace shall remaine with vs with her wings clipt for euer When we aske bread for this day doe we neglect to morrow Doe we not tread as neere as may bee in the steps of Christ who forbids vs to take care for to morrow N. Againe when you pray for peace because none fighteth for you but God you seeme to intimate that you would not feare warre if any should fight for you but God I. This is rather our meaning That we feare no warre but expect an eternall peace if God defend vs who is the Lord of Sabaoth that is of Hoasts At which word in the Te Deum some haue cauilled not remembring that it is found in the Greeke Text of Saint Paul For had it beene in the Te Deum Sabboth Rom. 9. 29. not Sabaoth might not that also bee iustified Did not sundry ancient Iewes tearme God the Lord of the Sabbath Day Is hee not indeed the Lord of rest which that word implieth But to returne from this seeming digression God is our a Psal 18. 2. 121 4 127. 2 shield and b Psal 73 25. watchfull keeper him only wee haue in Heauen and Earth And now remember you auouched c Dan. 10. 21. Michael to bee Christ Consider the words there written There is none that holdeth with mee in these things but Michael your Prince If Michael here bee Christ are not the words the same in effect with these in our Liturgie at which you stumble In summe though Angels and Men fight for vs ministerially and in the nature of instruments yet God only fighteth as principall Agent teaching our d Psal 18. 34. hands to fight CHAP. VIII Of the Letanie N. THe Short Prayers being handled I proceed to the Letanie being a more continued forme of Prayer which as I take it doth want things needfull and abound with things needlesse