whether there were not some Copies printed without additions he answered there were some but they were suppressed by some warrant Sir Iohn Elliot DEsired some clearer satisfaction might be made and that he might answer directly by what warrant Whereupon he was called in again who said he did not remember the particular but sure he was there was a warrant Tuesday 22. ONe Mr. Roules a Merchant and a Member of the House informed the House that his goods were seized by the Customers for refusing to pay Custome by them demanded although he told them he would pay what was adjudged by Law Whereupon Sir Robert Phillips spake as followeth Sir Robert Phillips BY this information you see the unfortunateness of the times and how full time it was that this Assembly should meet to serve his Majesty and to preserve our selves and I am confident we come hither with fullness of both and all shall conduce to a happy conclusion and to the King's honour and our own safety Great and weighty things wound deep Cast your eyes which way you please and you shall see violations on all sides look at the liberty of the subject look on the priviledge of this House let any say if ever he saw the like violation by inferiour Ministers that over-do their command nay they say if all the Parliament were in you this would we do and justifie If we suffer the liberty of this House to wither out of fear or complemeâ—â— we give a wound to the happiness of this Kingdom Here the course of justice was interrupted and order in the Exchequer was made for stay of the goods since here is a seizure upon the approach of Parliament of goods amounting to 5000. l. for a pretended duty of 200 l. In the sight of King Iames by reason of the sickness that then was the Parliament was prorogued and then there was some boldness to take this Tonnage and Poundage for there was no right to demaund it Let us proceed with affection of duty to make up breaches let a Committee consider of these proceedings Mr. Littleton HEre Mr. Littleton made a short speech to second him and all to the same purpose but for brevity sake I omit it M. Littleton we have had good admonitions and have followed them we have moderation preached unto us in Parliament and we follow I would others did the like out of Parliament Let the parties be sent for that violated the liberties of the Parliament and have their doom This Speech was occasioned by Setretary Cook who in his Speech desired moderation might be used Sir Iohn Elliot I See by this Relation what cause we have to be tender of the liberty of the Kingdom and this House and yet withall to return that moderation as to give satisfaction to the world that our hearts are fixed to serve his Majesty and to free us from ofter of jealousie 3 Things are involved in this complaint First the Right of particular Gentlemen Secondly the Right of the Subject Thirdly the Right and priviledge of this House Let the Committee consider of the 2 former but for the violation of the liberty of this House let us not do less then our fathers Was ever the information of a Member committed to a Committee Let us send for the parties Is there here a bare denial of the restistution of the goods was it not also said that if all the Parliament were contained in him they would do as they did Let them be sent for It was ordered that the Officers of the Custome-house should be sent for Mr. Selden REported from the Committee concerning the printing of the Petition of Right that there were printed 1500 without any addition at all which were published in the time of the last Parliament but since the Parliament other Copies have been printed and these supprest and I made waste paper which the Printer did as he said by command from Mr. Attorny which he received from his Majesty and the Printer further said that the Attorney was with the Lord Privy Seal at White-Hall and there delivered unto the Printer sundry papers with diverse hands to them and on the backside was endorsed thus We will command you that these copies be printed Friday 23. HIs Majesty sent the House a Message to this effect That he willed them to cease from the former debate of Tonnage and Poundage till the next day in the after-noone and that he would speak with them the next day in the after-noone at White-Hall in the Banqueting-house Saturday 24. THe King made a Speech to that purpose Munday 26. MR. Walter did inform the House that diverse ships were laden with corn for Spain whereupon a Committee was appointed to inquire of the trading into Spain and to other enemies transporting corn and other Munition thither it is also ordered that some of the prime Councel should presently move the King about stay of the ships Mr. Secretay Cook then moved that the Bill of Tonnage and Poundage might be read and after some debate it was diverted and they fell upon points of Religion the which Mr. Rowse did first mention See his former Speech at large Sir Francis Beamor IF Religion be not a Rule to all our actions what pollicy can we have If God fight not our battailes the help of man is in vain In our defect the cause thereof is our defect in religion and the sin is Idolatry and Popery Papists encrease now more than ever they did neither do they want their Priests and Masses nay his Majesties name is used to stop proceedings against Papists and that since the Parliament contrary to his Majesties goodness and publick profession and contrary to his many proclamations and many instructions to the Judges and whatsoever is done in the country is undone above Mr. Kirton IF ever now it is time to speak We see what men are raised to preferment if we look not to it I shall more fear it than the Spanish Armado or the loss of the Sound Mountague was here questioned We see the King to all our comforts is right it comes not from him but some that are too near him are too busie in this The ambition of the Clergy brought these stories We see pulpits are full of them we see some that wear white and black 't is more than Mountague let us bend our wits to reforme them Mr. Sherland WE have a Religion that is worth the loving with all our hearts it was setled by the bloud of Martyrs and kept by miracles To have our noses wiped of this would grieve any heart more to see our Religion go away and designes made of it and Arminianism still to encrease as it doth If do admi I do perswade my self the greater part of the Clergy Nobility and Gentry are firm but it is the desire of some to labour to bring in a new faction of their own and so to drop into the ears of his Majesty that those that oppose them oppose
according to former Presidents made them truly acquainted with it and demaunded Justice against the Earle of Suffolk he read the words saying they were spoken to Sir Iohn Strangwayes a Member of their House After a short stay the Lords called for the Messenger to whom the Lord Keeper gave this Answer He signified the great desire and care of their Lordships to maintain and increase the correspondencies betwixt both Houses and as a Testimony thereof they had partly taken into consideration the charge That the Earle of Suffolk being a Man of great place and Honour had voluntarily protested upon his Honour and Soul that there passed no such words as those from him to S r. Iohn Sâ—rangwayes And the Lord Keeper wished that their Lordships speedy proceedings in this business might testifie their love and good will to the Commons House The next day being the 15. of April S r. Iohn Strangwayes made a Protestation openly in the House wherein he avowed that notwithstanding the Earls denial he did speak those words positively unto him and would maintain it any way fitting a Member of that House or a Gentleman of Honour They ordered that this Protestation should be entered into the Journal book and that a Committee should take into consideration what was fit for the House to proceed to for the justification of S r. Iohn Strangwayes and what was fitting to be done in this case and to examine Witness of the proof of the words Upon the 17. day S r. Iohn Elliot reported what the Committee had done That they had sent for and examined S r. Christopher Nevill who related that upon Saturday being in the Lords Committee Chamber the Earle of Suffolk said thus to him M r. Attorney hath cleared the business and hath made the cause plain on the Kings side and further said M r. Selden hath razed a Record and hath deserved to be hanged and the Lower House should do well to joyn with the Higher in a Petition to the King to hang him and added as a reason For M r. Selden went about and took a course to divide the King from his people or words to that effect And being asked whether he conceived that those words of dividing the King from his people had relation to the whole and general action of M r. Selden before the Lords or to the particuler of razing a Record he conceived they were referred to the general action They had examined one M r. Littleton who confessed he heard the Earle of Suffolk speak to a Gentleman whom he knew not words to this affect viz. That he would not be in M r. Seldens Coat for 10000 l. and that M r. Selden deserved to be hanged The second part of this Report concerned the Particuler of S r. Iohn Strangwayes wherein though the Committee found no Witness to prove the words spoken to S r. Iohn Srangwayes yet there were many circumstances which perswaded them of the truth thereof 1. That the same words in the same syllables were spoken to S r. Christopher Nevill and that the Earle as he called to him S r. Iohn Strangwayes so he called to him S r. Christopher Nevill 2. That the Earle of Suffolk called S r. Iohn Strangwayes to him and spake to him was proved by S r. George Fane and S r. Alexander S â— Iohn at which time the Earle seemed full of that which he delivered 3. That S r. Iohn Strangwayes instantly after his discourse with the Earle of Suffolk went to the Earle of Hartford and delivered him the passages betwixt them being the same related in the house 4. From the unwillingness of S r. Iohn Strangwayes though called upon by the House to testifie against the Earle till it was resolved by question he should do it from a probabillity that had not these words been spoken to himself it is like he would have produced S r. Christopher Nevill from whom he also heard the same 5. From the worth of the Gentleman and his ingenious protestation in the House That he was ready to justifie the truth of what he said in any course the House should thinck meet or was fit for a Gentleman of Honour Hereupon the House resolved by question 1. That the Earle of Suffolk notwithstanding his denial had laid a most unjust and scandalous imputation upon M r. Selden a Member of the House being imployed in the service of the House and therein upon the whole House of Commons 2. That this House upon due examination is fully satisfied that S r. Iohn Strangwayes notwithstanding the Earle of Suffolks denial hath affirmed nothing but what is most true and certain 3. That these particulers and additions be again presented to the Lords and the Earle of Suffolk newly charged at the Bar and the Lords desired to proceed in Justice against the Earle and to inflict such punishment upon him as an offence of so high a nature being against the House of Commons doth deserve S r. Iohn Elliot was partly sent with the Message to the Lords who after a while returned this answer That they had taken the Message into consideration and would further take it into due consultation and in convenient time would return an answer by Messengers of their own Several Speeches made at the debates concerning the KINGS Propositions for supply M r. ALFORD THat to answer punctually to every Article was but to discover the Kings wants which is neither safe nor fit as the world now goes nor is it good for him to ask more then we can give nor for us to offer disproportionably withall it might draw to a president for the Subjects to make and maintain Wars S r. ROBERT MAUNSELL IT had been much better for us to have taken care for these proviâ—â—â— 3. years since His desire is not to have the Commons over-burthened That 7. of these Propositions are not to be neglected viz. The safe guarding of the Coasts The defence of the Elve The defence of 〈◊〉 The increasing of the Navy The repairing of the Foâ—â—â— The discharge of the Arrears of Merchants ships and the defence of the King of Denmark the other to be delayed to our next meeting at Michalâ—as S r. FRANCIS SEYMOUR THat as supply is deâ—ired so are we met for that purpose but if by those late courses we be disabled then he is not to expect it from us our greatest grievances being his Majesties pressing wants two subsedies formerly given and five forcibly and unadvisedly taken are great motives not to be too forward That we have too haâ—tily drawn two great Enemies upon us and all this done by men of small or no judgement S r. PETER HAYMAN THat vast Propositions are delivered to us in shew which he desires he may give an Estimate of that first brought them in M r. PYMM. THat in no Case it is â—â—t to examine the Prâ—positions especially of the Arrâ—arages of the Merchant ships and for preparation of the forreign Wars Secretary COKE THat three things
moderation in either party matters not being then heightened with such mutuall animosities as since we have beheld Yea it seems that the sins of our Nation began even then to cry so loud that the two Parties in Parliament could not distinctly hear each other so as effectually to understand one another disturbed by the clamorous and obstreperous noise of English wickednesse which began to cry aloud for vengeance on a wanton nation even to the abrupt breaking off of the Parliament VVe have had no other design in the edition hereof then the generall good hoping that Readers of all sorts may gain benefit thereby Yea such young folk whose short capacities as yet are unable to reach the policie and State part in these pieces may better themselves by the very language and expressions therein Here may they observe the variety of eloquence in severall persons some large copious and exuberant yet not flashy empty and dilute some concise piccant and sententious yet not involved dark and obscure some participating of both which in my apprehension is the best kind of Orations However let not any think that all the Gentlemen of able parts assembled in the Parliament are registred in this book by their particular service to their Countrey seeing only such are entred herein who made set studied and premeditated Orations Many Worthies there were in that place who only were dexterous at short and quick returnes and which retrieved long debates with some short and compendious answer very effectuall to the purpose For sometimes a Stilletto blow may give a more deep and deadly wound then the point and edge of the sharpest Sword which requireth more time and room for the managing thereof Yea many a discreet gentleman who after long traversing of matters judiciously bestowed his Yea or Nay in the right scale thereof to weigh the balance down when in Aequilibrio of matters of high importance though otherwise not haranguing it in large discourses might return to his countrey with satisfaction to his conscience that he had well deserved thereof VVe are confident also that the Students of the Law may advantage themselves by severall Cases here largely reported And here all care hath been used in comparing Records herein cited with the Originalls though we dare not avouch it clear from all mistakes the greatest industry and exactnesse being subject to fallibilitie herein VVe have seen the Reports of late Iudges in print and could point at Erratas therein which we speak not to accuse them but excuse our selves if some faults be found in our quotations As for the Gentlemen whose speeches are herein related they are either dead or still surviving For the former we hope we have no cause to ask pardon of their memories and fear not their ghosts disquieting us for offering any injury unto them or that we shall fall into the disfavour of their Heires for misrepresenting any thing for their fathers disadvantage As for such who are still alive we appeal unto them making them the Judges of our integrity herein True it is that the dragge-net of no diligence can be of that capacity nor can it be so advantagiously cast as to catch and hold all particulars uttered in a long speech Minums will get through the holes thereof and there be those minutiae in a speech which will escape the attention of the quickest eare and transcription of the speediest hand But such things are lost without any losse as to the essentials of the matter and here all things of concernment are faithfully represented And may the Reader be pleased to take notice that this Book is no Monochord or Instrument of a single string no nor is it a single Instrument but the exact result of many collections We have compared varias lectiones or rather varias auditiones the copies as they have been taken by severall Auditours Sometimes one copie charitably relieved another nor was it long before the defect of the same copie were supplied out of that other transcription Thus neither is there being for Books nor living for men in this world without being mutually beholding one to another he who lends to day may be glad to borrow to morrow One thing let me mind the Reader that it may move him to a publick and communicative Spirit not enviously to engrosse to himself what may do good to others Some Gentlemen Speakers in this Parliament imparted their Speeches to their intimate Friends the transcripts whereof were multiplied amongst others the penne being very procreative of issue in this nature and since it hath happened that the Gentlemens Originalls have in these troublesome times miscarried yet so that the fountain as I may say being dried up hath fetch 't this water from the channell they have again supplied their losses from those to whom they civilly communicated a copy of their paines Thus none are loosers in fine by making others sharers in their endeavours And now give me leave to say that the History of the Parliament represented in this Book is fundamentall to the History of our Times and what valiant penne soever dare undertake the writing thereof it must lay its ground-work and take its rise from this Parliament Herein were vertually contained the seeds of all those troubles which since the heat of anger hath ripened to the full height and breadth thereof For what is said of Rebeckah that Twinnes were in her bowels which made their Mothers wombe the field of their fight wherein their unborn Infancy gave an Essay of that Antipathy which would be continued betwixt them when arrived at riper yeares the same was true here where the opposition betwixt two parties was begun with much violence and impetuousnesse Yet let not the similitude be uncharitably improved beyond my intent as fixing the odious character of Esau on either of them who hope and believe that both of them might be Iacobs at the first propounding plain pious and peaceable ends unto themselves Yea this may say to ensuing Parliaments as Aeneas in the Poet to his sonne Disce puer virtutem ex me verumque laborem Fortunam ex aliis Nor can any true Patriot ever desire that men more honourable more knowing and able in all faculties of policie law and generall learning I may adde also more loving to or beloved of their Countreys ever should meet in Parliament who hence may take their pattern of many worthy and excellent vertues in Statists But oh let them farre exceed this in happinesse the abrupt end whereof was the beginning of all our miseries T. F. A TABLE of the severall Speeches Cases Arguments of Law and other passages contained in the first Session of the Parliament begun March 17. 1627. THe Kings Speech that day pag. first The Lord Keeper Coventryes speech the same day p. 3 The speaker Sir Iohn Finches speech March 19. pag. 7 The Lord Keeper Coventryes reply pag. 8 The Speaker Sir Iohn Finches reply pag. 9 The Lord Keeper Coventryes second reply pag.
breath of our nostrils and the light of our eyes and besides the many Comforts which under you and your Royall Progenitours in this frame of Government this Nation hath enjoyed the Religion we professe hath taught us whose Image you are And we do all most humbly declare to your Majestie that nothing is or can be more deare unto us then the sacred Rights and Prerogatives of your Crown no Person or Councell can be greater lovers of them nor more truly carefull to maintain them And the fundamentall Liberties which concern the freedome of our persons and propriety of our goods and estates are an essentiall meanes to establish the true glorie of a Monarch for rich and free Subjects as they are best governed so they are most able to do your Majestie service either in peace or warre which under God hath been the cause of the happie victories of this Nation beyond other Kingdomes of larger Territories and greater numbers of people What information soever contrarie to this shall be brought to your Majestie can come from no other then such as for their own ends under colour of advancing the Prerogative do in truth undermine and weaken Royall Power and by impoverishing the Subject render this Monarchie lesse glorious and the people lesse able to serve your Majestie Having by this which hath been said cleared our hearts and proceedings to your Majesty our trust is that in your Royall Judgement we shall be free from the least opinion of giving any unnâ—cessary stop to our procâ—eding in the matter of Supply and that your Majestie will be pleased to entertain belief of our alacritie and cheerfulnesse in your service and that hereafter no such misfortune shall befall us to be misunderstood by your Majestie in any thing We all most humblie beseech your Majestie to receive no information either in this or any other businesse from private relations but to weigh and judge of our proceedings by those resolutions of the House which shall be presented from our selves This rightly and graciously understood we are confident from the knowledge of your goodnesse and our own hearts that the ending of this Parliament shall be much more happy then the beginning and that it shall be stiled to all ages The Blessed Parliament which making perfect union betwixt the best people your Majestie may ever delight in calling us together and we in the Comforts of your Gracious Favour towards us In this hope I return to my first errand which will best appear by that which I shall humbly desire your Majesty to hear read being an humble Petition from the House of Commons for redresse of those many inconveniences and distractions that have befallen your Subjects by the billetting of Souldiers Your Royall Progenitours have ever held their Subjects hearts the best Garrison of this Kingdome And our humble suit to your Majesty is that our Faith and Loyalty may have such place in your Royall thoughts as to rest assured that all your Subjects will be ready to lay down their lives for the defence of your Sacred Person and this Kingdome Not going our selves into our Countreys this Easter we should think it a great happinesse to us and we know it would be a singular comfort and encouragement to them that sent us hither if we might but send them the newes of a gracious Answer from your Majesty in this particular which the reasons of the Petition we hope will move your most excellent Majesty graciously to vouchsafe us The King's Answer to the Petition concerning billetting of Souldiers 14 April 1628. M r Speaker and you Gentlemen WHen I sent you my last message I did not expect any Reply for I intended to hasten you not to find fault with you I told you at your first meeting that this time was not to be spent in words and I am sure it is lesse fit for disputes which if I had a desire to entertain M r Speaker's Preamble might give me ground enough The Question is not now what Libertie you have in disposing of matters handled in your House but rather what is fit to be done Therefore I hope you will follow my example in eschewing disputations and fall to your important businesse You make a protestation of your affections and zeal to my Prerogative grounded upon so good and just reasons that I must believe you But I look that you use me with the like charitie to believe what I have delivered more then once since your meeting which is That I am as forward as you for the preservation of your true Liberties yet let us not spend so much time in this that may hazzard both my Prerogative and your Liberties to our Enemies To be short go on speedily with your businesse without fear or more Apologies for time calls fast on you which will neither stay for me nor you Wherefore it is my dutie to presse you to hasten as knowing the necessity of it and yours to give credit to what I say as to him that sitteth at the Helme Sir Dudley Diggs his Introduction My Lords I Shall I hope auspiciously bâ—gin this Conference this day with an Observation out of Holy Story In the dayes of good King Iosiah when the Land was purged of Idolatry and the great men went about to repaire the House of God while money was sought for there was found a Book of the Law which had been neglected and afterwards being presented to the good King 2 Chro. cap. 34. 2 Kings cap. 22. procured the blessing which your Lordships may read of in the Scriptures My good Lords I am confident your Lordships will as cheerfully joyn with the Commons in acknowledgement of Gods great blessing in our good King Iosiah as the Knights Citizens and Burgesses of the Commons House by me their unworthy servant do thankfully remember your most religious and truly honourable invitation of them to the late Petition for clensing this Land from Popish Abominations which I may truly call a necessary and happy repairing of the House of God And to go on with the parallell while we the Commons out of our good affection were seeking for money we found I cannot say a book of the Law but many and those fundamentall points thereof neglected and broken which hath occasioned our desire of this Conference Wherein I am first commanded to shew unto your Lordships in generall that the Lawes of England are grounded on reason ancienter then bookes consisting much in unwritten Customes yet so full of Justice and true Equity that your most honourable Predecessours and Ancestours many times propugned them with a Nolumus Mutare and so ancient that from the Saxons daies notwithstanding the Injuries and Ruines of Time they have continued in most parts the same as may appear in old remaining Monuments of the Lawes of Ethelbert the first Christian King of Kent In Bibliotheca â—ottoniana Ina King of the West-Saxones offa of the Mercians and of Alfred the great Monarch who united
the Saxon Heptarchie whose Laws are yet to be seen published as some think by Parliament as he sayes to that end ut qui sub uno Rege sub una Lege regerentur Liber Lichfield And though the book of Lichfield speaking of the troublesome times of the Danes saies that then Ius sopitum erat in Regno Leges consuetudines sopitae sunt and prava voluntas vis violentia magis regnabant quam Iudicia vel Iustitia yet by the blessing of God a good King Edward commonly called S. Edward did awaken these Lawes Excitatas reparavit Liber de Chartsey sive Regiâ—â—rum de Chartsey reparatas decoravit decoratas confirmavit which confirmavit sheweth that good King Edward did not give those Lawes which William the Conquerour and all his Successours â—ithence that have sworn unto And here my Lords by many Cases frequent in our Modern Lawes strongly concurring with those of the ancient Saxon Kings I might if time were not precious demonstrate that our Lawes and Customes were the same I will only intreat your Lordships leave to tell you that as we have now even in those Saxon times they had their Courts Barons and Courts Leets and Sheriffs Courts by which as Tacitus saith of the Germans their Ancestours Iura reddebant per pagos vicos And I believe as we have now they had their Parliaments where new Lawes were made cum consensu Praelatorum Magnatum totius Communitatis or as another writes cum consilio Praelatorum Nobilium sapientum Laicorum I will adde nothing out of Glanvile that wrote in the time of Henry the second or Bracton that writ in the time of Henry the third only give me leave to cite that of Fortescue the learned Chancellour to Hen. 6. who writing of this Kingdome saith De Dom. polit eâ— regal Regnum illud in omnibus Nationum Regum temporibus eisdem quibus nunc regitur legibus consuetudinibus regebatur But my good Lords as the Poet said of Fame I may say of our Common Law Ingreditur solâ— caput inter nubila condit Virgil. Wherefore the cloudy part being mine I will make haste to open way for your Lordships to heare more certain Arguments and such as go on surer grounds Be pleased then to know that it is an undoubted and fundamentall point of this so ancient Common Law of England that the Subject hath a true Proprietie in his goods and possessions which doth preserve as sacred that meum and tuum that is the Nurse of Industrie the Mother of Courage and without which there can be no Justice of which meum and tuum is the proper object But this undoubted Birthright of free Subjects hath latelie not a little been invaded prejudiced by pressures the more grievous because they have been pursued by Imprisonments contrary to the Franchise of this Land And when according to the Lawes and Statutes of this Realm redresse hath been sought for in a legall way by demanding Habeas Corpus from the Judges and a discharge or triall according to the Law of the Land successe hath failed which hath now inforced the Commons in this present Parliament assembled to examine by Acts of Parliaments Presidents and Reasons the truth of English Subjects Liberties which I shall leave to learned Gentlemen whose weightie Arguments I hope will leave no place in your Lordships memories for the errours and infirmities of your humblest Servant that doth thankfully acknowledge the great favour of your most honourable and patient attention The Argument made by M r Littleton at the command of the House of Commons out of Acts of Parliament and Authorities of Law expounding the same at the first Conference with the Lords concerning the Liberty of the Person of every Free-man My Lords UPon the occasions delivered by the Gentleman that last spake your Lordships have heard the Commons have taken into their serious Consideration the matter of Personall Libertie and after long debate thereof on divers dayes as well by solemn Arguments as single propositions of doubts and answers to the end no scruple might remaine in any mans breast unsatisfied they have upon a full search and cleer understanding of all things pertinent to the Question â—nanimously declared That no Free-man ought to be committed or detained in prison or otherwise restrained by the command of the King or the Privie Councell or any other unlesse some cause of the commitment detainer or restraint be expressed for which by Law he ought to be committed detained or restrained And they have sent me with some other of their Members to represent unto your Lordships the true grounds of such their resolutions and have charged me particularly leaving the reasons of Law and Presidents for others to give your Lordships satisfaction that this Libertie is established and confirmed by the whole State the King the Lords Spirituall and Temporall and the Commons by severall Acts of Parliament The authority whereof is so great that it can receive no answer save by interpretation or repeal by future Statutes And these that I shall mind your Lordships of are so direct to the point that they can bear no other exposition at all and sure I am they are still in force The first of them is the Granâ— Charter of the Liberties of England first granted in the 17 yeare of King Iohn and renewed in the 9 yeare of King Hen. 3. and since confirmed in Parliament above 30 times Cap. 29. the words are these Nullus liber homo capiatur vel imprisonetur aut diseisietur de libero tenemento suo vel libertatibus vel liberis consuetudinibus suis aut utlagetur aut exuletur aut aliquo modo destruatur nec super cum ibimus nec super cum mittemus nisi per legale judicium parium suorum vel per legem terrae These words Nullus liber home c. are expresse enough yet it is remarkable that Matthew Paris an Authour of speciall credit doth observe fo 432. that the Charter of the 9. H. 3. was the very same as that of the 17. of King Iohn in nullo dissimiles are his words and that of King Iohn he setteth down verbatim fol. 342. and there the words are directlie Nec eum in carcerem mittemus and such a corruption as is now in the print might easily happen 'twixt 9. H. 3. and 28. E. 1. when this Charter was first exemplified But certainly there is sufficient left in that which is extant to decide this question for the words are That no Free-man shall be taken or imprisoned but by the lawfull judgement of his Peeres which is by Jury Peeres for Pares ordinary Jurours for others who are their Peeres or by the Law of the Land Which words Law of the Land must of necessity be understood in this Nation to be by due processe of Law and not the Law of the Land generally otherwise it would comprehend Bond-men whom we call Villains
made to the King and Lords which is against the statute made in the 25 Ed. 3. c. 4. 42 E. 3. c. 3. By the Statute 25 Ed. 3. cap. 4. It is ordained and established that no man from henceforth shall be taken by petition or suggestion made to the King or his Councell but by indictment or course of Law and acordingly it was enacted 42 E. 3. c. 3. the title of which statute is None shall be put to answer an accusation made to the King without presentment Then my Lord it being so although the cause should not need to be expressed in such manner as that it may appear to be none of these causes mentioned in the statute or else the Subject by this return loseth the benefit and advantage of these Laws which be their birth-right and inheritance but in this return there is no cause at all appearing of the first commitment and therefore it is plain that there is no cause for your Lordship to remand him but there is no cause you should deliver him since the writ is to bring the body and the cause of the imprisonment before your Lordship But it may be objected that this writ of Habeas Corpus doth not demand the cause of the first commitment but of the detaining onely and so the writ is satisfied by the return for though it shew no cause of the first commitment but of detaining onely yet it declareth a cause why the Gentleman is detained in prison this is no answer nor can give any satisfaction for the reason why the cause is to be returned is for the Subjects liberty that if it shall appear a good and sufficient cause to your Lordship then to be remanded if your Lordship think and finde it insufficient he is to be enlarged This is the end of this writ and this cannot appear to your Lordship unlesse the time of the first commitment be expressed in the return I know that in some cases the time is not materiall as when the cause of the commitment is and that so especially returned as that the time is not materiall it is enough to shew the cause without the time as after a conviction or triall had by Law But when it is in this manner that the time is the matter it self for intend what cause you will of the commitment yea though for the highest cause of treason there is no doubt but that upon the return thereof the time of it must appear for it being before triall and conviction had by Law it is but an accusation and he that is onely accused and the accusation ought by Law to be let to bail But I beseech your Lordship to observe the consequence of this Cause If the Law be that upon this return this Gentleman should be remanded I will not dispute whether or no a man may be imprisoned before he be convicted according to the Law but if this return shall be good then his imprisonment shall not continue on for a time but for ever and the Subjects of this Kingdome may be restrained of their liberties perpetually and by Law their can be no remedy for the Subject and therefore this return cannot stand with the Laws of the Realm or that of Magna Charta Nor with the statute of 28 Ed. 3. ca. 3. for if a man be not bailable upon this return they cannot have the benefit of these two Laws which are the inheritance of the Subject If your Lordship shall think this to be a sufficient cause then it goeth to a perpetuall imprisonment of the subject for in all those causes which may concern the Kings Subjects and are appliable to all times and cases we are not to reflect upon the present time and government where justice and mercy floweth but we are to look what may betide us in the time to come hereafter It must be agreed on all sides that the time of the first commitment doth not appear in this return but by a latter warrant from the Lords of the Councell there is a time indeed expressed for the continuing of him in prison and that appeares but if this shall be a good cause to remand these Gentlemen to prison they may lie there this seven yeares longer and seven yeares after them nay all the dayes of their lives And if they sue out a writ of Habeas corpus it is but making a new warrant and they shall be remanded and shall never have the advantage of the Laws which are the best inheritance of every Subject And in Ed. 6. fol. 36. the Laws are called the great inheritance of every Subject and the inheritance of inheritances without which inheriritance we have no inheritance These are the exceptions I desire to offer to your Lordship touching the return for the insufficiency of the cause returned and the defect of the time of the first commitment which should have been expressed I will not labour in objections till they be made against me in regard the sttatute of Westminster primo is so frequent in every mans mouth that at the Common Law those men that were committed in four cases were not replevisable viz. those that were taken for the death of a man or the commandment of the King or his Justices for the forest I shall speak something to it though I intend not to spend much time about it for it toucheth not this Case we have in question For that is concerning a Case of the Common Law when men are taken by the Kings writs and not by word of mouth and it shall be so expounded as Master Stamford fol. 73. yet it is nothing to this Case for if you will take the true meaning of that statute it extends not at all to this writ of Habeas corpus for the words are plain they shall be replevisable by the Common writ that is by the writ de homine replegiando directed to the Sheriffe to deliver them if they were baileable but the Case is above the Sheriffe and he is not to be Judge in it whether the cause of the commitment be sufficient or not as it appears in Fitz Herbert de homine replegiando and many other places and not of the very words of the statute this is clear for thereby many other causes mentioned as the death of a man the commandment of the Justices c. In which the statute saith men are not replevisable but will a man conceive that the meaning is that they shall not be bailed at all but live in perpetuall imprisonment I think I shall not need to spend time in that it is so plain let me but make one instance A man is taken de morte hominis he is not baileable by writ saith this statute that is by the common writ there was a common writ for this Case and that was called de odio acia as appeareth Bracton Coron 34. this is the writ intended by the statute which is a common writ and not a speciall writ But my
made fully to the maintenance of their resolution and that there was not one example or president of a Remittitur in any kinde upon this point before that of Cesars Case which is before cleared with the rest and is but of late time and of no moment against the resolution of the house of Commons And thus for so much as concerned the presidents of Record the first day of the conference desired by the Lords ended The next day they desired another conference which the house of Commons at which it pleased the Committee of both houses to hear M â— Attâ—rney again to make what Objection he would against other parts of the Arguments formerly delivered by the house of Commons He then Objected against the Acts of Parliament and against the reasons of Law and his Objections to these parts were answered as appears in the answers by order given into the house of Commons by the gentlemen that made them He Objected also upon the second day against that second kinde of presidents which are resolutions of Judges in former times and not of Records and brought also some other Testimonies of opinions of Judges in former times touching this point First for that resolution of all the Judges in England in 34. of Queen Eliz. mentioned and read in the Arguments made at the first conference he said That it was directly against the resolution of the House of Commons and observed the words of it to be in one place that Persons so committed by the King or the Councel may not be delivered by any of the Courts c. and in another that if the Cause were expressed either in generality or speciality it was sufficient and he said that the expressing of a cause in generality was to shew the Kings or Councels Command And to this purpose he read the whole words of that reâ—olution of the Judges Then he Objected also that in a report of one Ruswells Case in the Kings-bench in the 13. Iac. he found that the opinion of some Judges of that Court S r. Edward Coke being then Chief Justice and one of them was that a Prisoner committed per mandatum Domini Regis or privati Consilii without cause shewed and so returned could not be bayled because it might be matter of State or Arcanuâ— Imperii for which he stood committed And to this alâ—o he added an opinion that he found in a Journal of the House of Commons of the 13. Iac. wherein S r. Edward Coke speaking to a Bill preferred for the explanation of Magna Charta â—ouching imprisonâ—ent said in the House That a Prisoner so committed could not be enlarged by the Law because it might be Matter of State for which he was committed And among these Objectiâ—â—â— of other nature also he spake of the confidence that was shewed iâ— behalf of the House of Commons he said that it was not confidence could add any thing to the determination of the question but if it could that he had as much reason for the other side against the resolution of the House grounding himself upon the force of 〈◊〉 Objections which as he conceived had so weakned the Argument of the Commons House that notwithstanding any thing yet Objected they wereupon clear reason confident of the truth of their first resolution grounded upon so just examination and deliberation taken by them And it was observed to the Lords also that their confidence herein was of another nature and far greater weight then any confidence that could be expressed by M. Attorney or whomsoever elâ—e being of his Majesties Councel learned To which purpose the Lords were desired to take into their Memory the difference beâ—ween â—he present quality of the Gentlemen that â—pakâ— iâ— behalf of the House of Commons and of the Kings learned couâ—cel in their speaking there howsoever accidentally they were 〈…〉 of the same profession For the Kings Councel spake as 〈◊〉 perpetuâ—lly retained by Fee and if they made glosses and 〈…〉 adâ—anâ—agious Interpretations soever for their own part thâ—y did but wâ—aâ— belonged to their place and quality as M r. Attornâ—y had done But the Gentlemen that spake in behalf of the House of Commons came therâ— bound on the one side by the trust reposed in them by their Countrey that sent them and on the other bound also by an Oâ—th taken by every of them before they sit in they House to maintain aâ—d deâ—end the rights and prerogatives of the Crown So that 〈…〉 thâ— poâ—â—â— of confidence alone that of them that spake as â—â—tained Councel by perpetual Fee and might by their place being pâ—râ—itâ—ed to speak say what they would and that of them that spake as bound to nothing but truth but by such a trust and such an Oath were no way to be so compared or Counterpoised as if the one of them were of no more weight then the other And then the Objections before mentioned were also answered For that of the resolution of all the Judges of England in 34. Eliz. It was shewed plainly it agreed with the resolution of the House of Commons For although indeed it might have been expressed with more perspicuity yet the words of it as they are sufficiently shew that the meaning of it is no otherwise To that purpose besides the words of the whole frame of this resolution of the Judges as it is in the Coppy transcribed out of the Lord Chief Justice Andersons book written in his own hand which book was there offered to be shewed also in behalf of the House of Commons It was observed that the Records of the first part of it shew plainly that all the Judges of England then resolved that the Prisoners spoken of in the first part of their resolution were onely Prisoners committed with cause shewed for they onely said they might not be delivered by any of the Courts without due Trial by Law and Judgement of acquital had which shews plainly that they meant that by trial and acquital they might be delivered but it is clear that no trial or acquital can be had where is not some cause laid to their charge for which they ought to stand committed Therefore in that part of the resolution such Prisoners are onely meant as are committed without cause shewed which also the Judges in that resolution expresly thought necessary as appears in the second part of the resolution wherein they have these words If upon Return of the Habeas Corpus the cause of their commitment be certified to the Judges as it ought to be c. by which words they shew plainly that every return of a commitment is insufficient that hath not a cause shewed of it And to that which Mr. Attorney said as if the cause were sufficiently expressed in generality if the Kings Command or the Councels were expressed in it and as if that were meant in the resolution for a sufficient general cause it was answered That it was never heard of in Law that the power or
in Chambers but publick in Court where every one may hear which causeth Judgement to be given with maturity Your Lordships have heard the particulers delivered by my brethren how that Councel being assigned to those 4. Gentlemen in the latter end of Michaelmass Term their Cause received hearing and upon consideration of the Statutes and Records we found some of them to be according to the good old Law of Magna Charta but we thought that they did not come so close to this Case as that bayl should be thereupon presently granted My Lords the Habeas Corpus consisteth of 3. parts the Writ the Return upon the Writ or schedule and the Entry or rule reciting the Habeas Corpus and the Return together with the opinion of the Court either a remittitur or traditur in ballium In this Case a remittitur was granted which we did that we might take better advisement upon the Case and upon the remittitur my Lords they might have had a new Writ the next day and I wish they had because it may be they had seen more and we had been eased of a great labour And my Lords when the Attorney upon the remittitur pressed an Entry we all straitly charged the Clark that he should make no other Entry then such as our Predecessors had usually made in like Cases for the difference my Lords betwixt remittitur and remittitur quousque I could never yet finde any I have now sat in this Court 15. years and I should know something surely if I had gone in a Mill so long dust would cleave to my cloaths I am old and have one foot in the grave therefore I will look to the better part as near as I can But omnia habere in memoria in nullo errare divinum potiùs est quam humanum THE LORD CHIEF IUSTICE SAith he shall not speak with confidence unless he might stand right in the opinion of the House and protested what he spake the day before was not said by him with any purpose to trench upon the Priviledges of this House but out of that respect which by his place he thought he owed to the King he said concerning the point he was to speak of that he would not trouble the Lords with things formerly repeated wherein he concurred with his brethren He said if it were true the King might not commit they had done wrong in not partly delivering for my Lords saith he these Statutes and good Laws being all in force we meant not to trench upon any of them most of them being Commentaries upon Magna Charta but I know not any Statute that goeth so far that the King may not commit Therefore justly we think we delivered the interpretation thereof to that purpose for my Lords Lex terrae is not to be found in this Statute they gave me no example neither was there any Cause shewed in the Return A President my Lords that hath run in a storm doth not much direct us in point of Law and Records are the best Testimonies These Presidents they brought being read we shewed them wherein they were mistaken if we have erred erramus cum Patribus and they can shew no President but that our Predecessors have done as we have done sometimes bayling sometimes remitting sometimes discharging Yet we do never bayl any committed by the King or his Councel till his pleasure be first known Thus did the Lord Chief Justice Coke in Raynards Case They say this would have been done if the King had not written but why then was the Letter read and published and kept and why was the Town Clark sent carefully to enquire because the Letter so directed whether these men offered for bayl were subsedy men the Letter sheweth also that Beckwith was committed for suspition of being acquaninted with the Gun-Pouder-Treason but no proof being produced the King left him to be bayled The Earle of WARVVICKS speech 21. April 1628. MY Lords I will observe something out of the Law wherein this liberty of the Subjects Person is founded and some things out of Presidents which have been alleadged For the Law of Magna Charta and the rest concerning these points they are acknowledged by all to be of force and that they were to secure the Subjects from wrongfâ—ll imprisonment as well or rather more concerning the King then the Subject why then besides the grand Charter and those 6. other Acts of Parliament in the very point we know that Magna Charta hath been at least 30. times confirmed so that upon the matter we have 6. or 7. and thereby Acts of Parliament to confirm this liberty although it was made a matter of derision the other day in this House One is that of 36. E. 3. N o. 9. and another in the same year N o. 20. not printed but yet as good as those that are and that of 42. E. 3. cap. 3. so express in the point especially the Petition of the Commons that year which was read by M r. Littleton with the Kings answer so full and free from all exception to which I refer your Lordships that I know not have any thing in the World can be more plain and therefore if in Parliament ye should make any doubt of that which is so fully confirmed in Parliament and in case so clear go about by new glosses to alter the old and good Law we shall not onely forsake the steps of our Ancestors who in Cases of small importance would answer nolumus mutare leges Angliâ— but we shall yield up and betray our right in the greatest inheritance the Subjects of England hath and that is the Laws of England and truely I wonder how any man can admit of such a gloss upon the plain Text as should overthrow the force of the Law for whereas the Law of Magna Charta is that no Free-man shall be imprisoned but by lawfull judgement of his Peers or the Law of the Land the King hath power to commit without Cause which is a sence not onely expresly contrary to other Acts of Parliament and those especially formerly cited but against Common sence For M r. Attorney confesseth this Law concerns the King why then where the Law saith the King shall not commit but by the Law of the Land the meaning must be as M r. Attorney would have it that the King must not commit but at his own pleasure and shall we think that our Ancestors were so foolish to hazard their Persons Estates and labour so much to get a Law and to have it 30. times confirmed that the King might not commit his Subjects but at his own pleasure and if he did commit any of his Subjects without a Cause shewen then he must lie during pleasure then which nothing can be imagined more ridiculous and contrary to true reason For the Presidents I observe that there hath been many shewen by which it appears to me evidently that such as have been committed by the Kings Councel
yet may be broken by the word Soveraign power and so the virtue of the Petition taken away The end of the Petition is not to enlarge the bounds of Law but their Liberties being infringed to reduce them to their ancient bounds and shall we by admitting of these words Soveraign power instead of cureing the wound launch it and cut it deeper The next point is the word trust a word of large latitude and deep sence we know that there is a trust in the Crown and King but regulated by Law we acknowledge in penal Statutes the King may grant another power to dispense with the Law but Magna Charta inflicting no penalty leaveth no trust but claimeth his own right therefore the word trust would confound this distinction Our next reason is we think it absolutely repugnant to any course of Parliament to put saving to the Petition In former times the course of petitioning the King was this The Lords and the Speaker either by words or writing preferred their Petition to the King this then was called the Bill of the Commons which being received by the King part he received and part he put out part he ratified for as it came from him it was drawn into a Law But this course in 2. H. 5. was found prejudicial to the Subject and since in no such cases they have petitioned by Petition of Right as we now do who come to declare what we demaund of the King For if we should tell him what we should not demaund we should then proceed not in a Parliamentary course Now for that which is alleadged by your Lordships de articulis sup Chartas that my Lords is not like this that is saving upon particulars But this Petition consisting on particulers would be destroyed by a general saving The saving de articulis sup Chartas are of three aids for Ransomming the Kings Person for Knighting the Kings eldest Son and once for Marrying the Kings eldest Daughter These by the form of the Petition shew that they came not in upon the Kings answer but upon the Petition First then followed the savings which under favour we think are no reasons to make us accept of this saving being not pertinent to the Petition These 23. Statutes 34. E. 1. were made to confirm Magna Charta so that there are in all 30. Acts to set Magna Charta in its purity and if some subsequent Statute have laid some blemish upon it shall we now then make the subject in worse case by laying more weight upon it God forbid In the next place your Lordships reason thus that this which you wish we would admit of is no more then what we formerly did profess when we sent the King word we had no purpose at all to trench upon his prerogatives It is true my Lords we did so but this was not annexed to any Petition for in that manner we should never have done it And here I am commanded with your favours to deliver unto you what a Learned Member of the House delivered unto our House touching this point The King saith he and the Subject hath two liberties Two Mannors joyning one upon another the King is informed the Subject hath intruded upon him but upon triall it appeareth not to be so were it fitting think you that the Subject should give security that he should not inâ—roach or intrude on that Mannor of his because the King had been informed he did so I think you will be of another minde wherefore I am commanded seeing we cannot admit of this addition to desire your Lordships to joyn with us in the Petition which being granted and the hearts of the King and people knit togeather I doubt not but his Majestie will be safe at home and feared abroad Sir HENRY MARTINS Speech MY Lords the work of this day wherein the House of Commons hath implyed the Gentleman that spake last and my self was to reply to the answer which it hath pleased the Lord Keeper to make to those reasons which we had offered to your Lordships conâ—ideration in justification of our refusall not to admit into our Petition the addition commended by your Lordships which reasons of ours since they have not given such satisfaction as we desired and well hoped as by the Lord Keepers answer appeared It was thought fit for our better order and method in replying to divide the Lord Keepers answer into two parts a Leagall and a Rationall The reply to the leagall your Lordships have heard my self comes intrusted to reply to the rational which also consisted of two branches the first deduced from the whole context of the additional clause the second inforced out of some part In the first were these reasons that the same deserved our acceptance First as satisfactory to the King Secondly to your Lordships Thirdly agreeable to what our selves had often protested and professed expresly by the mouth of our Speaker I must confess these motives were weighty and of great force and therefore to avoid misunderstanding and misconceit which otherwise might be taken against the House of Commons upon refusall of the propounded addition It is necessary to State the question rightly and to set down the true difference between your Lordships and us Now indeed there is no difference or question between your Lordships and us concerning this additional clause in the nature and quality of a proposition For so considered we say it is most true and to be received and imbraced by us In toto qualibet parte qualibet syllaba yea and were that the question we should add to this addition and instead of due regard say we have had have and ever will have a special and singular regard where to leave entire Sovereign power were to intimate as if we had first cropt it and then left it but our regard was to acknowledge and confess it sincerely and to maintain it constantly even to the hazard of our goods and lives if need be To which purpose your Lordships may be pleased to remember that strict oath every Member of our House hath taken this very session in these words I A. B. do utterly testifie and declare in my Conscience that the Kings highness is the Supreme or Sovereign Governour of this Realm in all Causes c. and to my utmost power will assist and defend all Iurisdictions Priviledges Preheminencies and Authorities granted or belonging to the Kings Highness or united or annexed to the Impâ—rial Crown of this Realm c. So that your Lordships need not to borrow from our protestations any exhortations to us to entertain a writing in assistance of the Kings Sovereign power since we stand obliged by the most Sacred bond of a solemn Oath to assist and defend the same if cause or occasion so required So that the onely question between your Lordships and us is whether this clause should be added to our Petition and received into it as part thereof which to do your Lordships reasons
Iames Perotte SIr Iames Perotte complaineth further of some instruments of the Bishop of London and Doctor Turner who denied the License of printing the Articles of Ireland That diverse books have been licensed by the Bishop of Londons Chapplains and then refuse the same declaring they are of a contrary opinion and have given license to Mr. Chomley and Mr. Butterfield and therefore would not give license to these Mr. Pym MAster Pym doth make a full Report of all the proceedings against Mr. Mountague since the last Parliament of King Iames. Sir Robert Phillips REported from Mr. Attorney that my Lord of Dorset spoke to him to hasten the Pardons and that he received a Warrant from the King for drawing them that my Lord Carleton brought another Warrant from the King for drawing these pardons telling him that he must make expedition therein and he must draw the same as the Councel of the parties did direct the same That Mr. Attorney having made a rough Draught being often urged to expedition by the Bishop of Winchester he sent the same to the Bishop who inter-lined and corrected the same adding the names of Cosens Manwering and Sibthorp to the pardon That Mr. Attorney may be asked whether any of these Lords were made acquainted with the affidavit about Cosens A Messenger is sent to the Lord Keeper to know the reason wherefore he made stop of the Great Seal and by what solicitations he was prest thereunto Thursday 5. A Petition in complaint of an imposition upon Mault by the Citie of London was this day preferred to the House which is prefered to the Committee for Grievances Some differences being observed in the Articles as in the twentieth Article c. a Committee is to Compare the old and new Articles with the Records at Lambeth and consider how all those differences come in Mr. Long COmplaineth that a Prosecution hath been against him in the Star-chamber for sitting in this House the last Session he being High Sheriff of Wiltshire and chosen Burgess of Bath in Somersetshire The Preachers are to be chosen to morrow at the Committee for Religion Mr. Ogle IS called who averreth his Petition and will prove the same by witnesses It is Ordered that Cosens shall have intimation to attend to answer here if he will on Munday come fortnight to be sent for by a Serâ—cant at Arms and if he be not of the Convocation but if he be then to have notice by the Speakers letters and if thereupon he appear not then to proceed with him as is usuall in like Cases If Witnesses be sent for to this House in any Publick business they are to pay their own Charges Secretarie Cook SAith He hath very now received from a Noble person this Message from his Majestie That he hath appointed the eighteenth of this Moneth for the Fast for this place and the twentieth of the next Moneth for the whole king dom Sir Robert Phillips MOveth in the behalf of the Lord Peircie that having a Cause in dispute in the Lords House and three Members of this House being of his Counsel desires they may have leave to plead his Cause Which being conceived to be a Cause that is not to receive any Judgement here it is granted Friday A Petition exhibited against one Wittington a Papist in Northumberland Ordered to be sent for by a Serjeant at Arms. Mr. Harris of St. Margarets Westminster Mr. Harris of Hanwell in Oxfordshire Mr. William Fitz-Ieofferies of Cornwall are chosen for three Preachers for the day of the Fast and for the precedence is referred to the Preachers themselves Mr. Shervill REported one Parson Scall procured the Pardon for Mountague one Bartholomew Baldwin solicited the Pardon for Manwering There is also another Pardon found to be granted to Manwering pardoning the Judgement late he had given by the High Court of Parliament and all sums due to the King thereby Sir Nathaniel Ritch THat we may do somewhat which may give content to those who sent us hither and make expedition to the business of his Majestie and the Common-wealth That therefore the business of Mr. Mountague may be expedited to the Lords that they may enter into these things as well as we The Councel of Mr. Iones the Printer are to be heard upon Munday next Sir O. Roberts REporteth from the Committee sent to Mr. Attorney that Mr. Attorney staid for the Affidavits taken by Sir Euball Thelwall That one Health a Gentleman of Grays-Inne told Mr. Attorney that Cosens should say that the King was not supream of the Church and that he had no more to do with Religion than he that rubs his horse heels Mr. Attorney acquainted the King whereupon the King charged him to make a strict Inquisition herein but the King would not believe the same to be true Mr. Attorney sent for his Kinsman again and being examined he said so as affidavits were made thereon There was further certificate from the Dean and others at Durham so that the business was much lessened thereby but Mr. Attorney pressing the business further casually met with the Bishop of Winchester who said to Mr. Attorney that this business will come to nothing and King that made the affidavit was but a vain fellow The Affidavit of Thomas King was read which verifieth the same Mr. Selden made the rest of this Report and delivered the Warrant by which Mr. Attorney drew the Pardons for the Bishop of Winchester The effect was that what Mr. Mountague had done or writ was not out of any ill meaning such a Pardon should be drawn as Mr. Mountagues Councel should direct This Warrant was under the Lord Dorchester being the Lord Carleton Mr. Selden delivereth likewise the Copie of the Pardon interlined and razed by the Lord Bishop of Winchester Sir Iohn Elliot HEre is high Treason upon oath a Deposition upon oath an opposition is not in Law to be admitted for here is not onely an Admission but an Invitation of Certificates for defence and allowed to sway the case of so high a nature that therefore the parties that made the Affidavits and Mr. Attorney may be examined to make a better disquisition in this for I fear the intimation of the Bishop of Winchester swayed too far with Mr. Attorney Be matter true or false the neglect of the dutie of the Attorney is not to be excused I am much grieved to see his Majesties mercie run so readily to these kind of persons and his justice so readily upon others trifling occasions nay upon no occasions nay upon no occasion onely the misinformation of some Minister Mr. Attorney being by Writ to attend the Lords House cannot be injoyned to attend this House or to appear upon Warrant wherefore Mr. Littleton and Mr. Selden being of the same Inne of Court have undertaken to give notice to Mr. Attorney that there being an accusation here against him he may here answer and satisfie the House on Munday next Saturday A Bill against Spirituall Symonie