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A00604 Transubstantiation exploded: or An encounter vvith Richard the titularie Bishop of Chalcedon concerning Christ his presence at his holy table Faithfully related in a letter sent to D. Smith the Sorbonist, stiled by the Pope Ordinarie of England and Scotland. By Daniel Featley D.D. Whereunto is annexed a publique and solemne disputation held at Paris with Christopher Bagshaw D. in Theologie, and rector of Ave Marie Colledge. Featley, Daniel, 1582-1645.; Bagshaw, Christopher, d. 1625?; Smith, Richard, 1566-1655. 1638 (1638) STC 10740; ESTC S101890 135,836 299

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mattereth not much domesticum testimonium is of little force in this case it will add no more to you then it can detract from me For love looketh through that end of the perspective glasse which maketh the object seeme bigger but hatred through that end which maketh it seeme lesse then in truth it is Be it 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 selfe flattery or servile flatterie I passe by it but I cannot so lightly passe the shamelesse slanders which I finde in this pamphlet cast by S. E. upon the dead and the living That you may be a Chevalter de gloire and a renowned conquerour M Knevet must be your prize and die at Venice a Proselyte For so S. E. your Herauld proclaimes to the world M. Knevet upon the Ministers poore carriage in the dispute and Tergiversation afterwards when he should have answered disliked the Protestants cause which hee saw their Champion could not make good with argument in the presence of a Scholler not durst face to face appeare to defend it and soone afterwards was reconciled to the Church and at Venice died a Catholike In this whole passage there is not a word true in your sense but onely that M. Knevet died at Venice if hee were reconciled to your Romish Church and died a Papist name me the Priest who reconciled him and on his death bed annealed him and after his death buried him with your Romish rites and bring some good proofe and testimonie hereof to cleare your Chaplaine from the fowle imputation of belying the dead Verily of all fowle we most hate and detest the crowes and of all beasts the Iackalls because the one diggs up the graves and devoureth the flesh the other picketh out the eyes of the dead Had M. Knevet after he left France and travelled into Italy when hee was out of hearing the divine harpe of Orpheus I meane the preaching of the Gospell beene enchaunted with your Syren song●… I should have more grieved then marveiled at it he being a young Gentleman of a facile and affable disposition and not deeply learned But the truth is he was constant in the truth of his Religion to his last breath and as the Lord Knevet and other of his alliance and M. Russell and other of his acquaintance at Venice can testifie he crowned his other good parts and graces with perseverance in the Orthodox faith to the end Howbeit because Venice is farre off and M. Knevet being dead cannot speake for himselfe your Knight of the post S. E. thought he might securely by an officious lie tending so much to your reputation and credit of the Catholique cause indeare himselfe to your Lordship For he knew well mortui non mordent Nulli gravis est percussus Achilles But certainely as he there forfeiteth his honestie so hee forfeited his wits also when p. 23. with a forehead made o●… the same brasse whereof the images are he daily worshippeth he affirmes in print that since our Conference at Paris in England it selfe twise to his knowledge I refused to meete your Lordship in dispute For who will beleeve that your Lordship whom your very enemies acknowledge to be endewed with a very great measure of wisedome could be so carelesse of your selfe as comming into England with faculties from the Pope and thereby incurring the penalty of the lawes that touched not onely your Miter but your head to send two challenges to the Arch-Bishops Chaplaine in house to meet you at a disputation especially after you heard that there were two Proclamations out for your apprehension No Sir 't is well knowne that when you were in England you played least in sight and concealed your selfe not onely from Protestants but from those who were most addicted to your Romish religion whereof they complaine in print In England say they it is a very hard matter to have accesse to the Bishop and his Vicars because they most warily hide themselves and againe the Bishop of Chalcedon cannot be spoken withall without probable danger of imprisonment death banishment or grievous trouble and as well himselfe as his Vicars lurk for feare of persecution As for my declining a second meeting with you in France which you upbraid me with p. 180. usque 188. the indiffident Reader even by your own relation will perceive that the feare and difference whi●…h hindred the second meeting was on your part and not on mine for as your selfe relate p. 184. I sent word by M. Knevet to you that I would be ready to meete you the next weeke upon condition a day might be allowed me to prosecute the rest of my arguments and againe p. 186. hea●…ing of your purpose to leave Paris on the Friday following I sent to you the Munday before word by M. Knevet that I would meete with you upon Tuesday on condition that I might have leave first to propose all the rest of my arguments which you refused to give way unto You felt the smart of our weapons in the first conflict in such sort that you would not meete the second time unlesse I put in good security that I would not so much as draw upon you or shew you my weapons Yea but say you 't is evident I declined the conflict by my owne words to one of my friends whom I told that Catholickes brought so many testimonies of Fathers to prove the reall presence that there was need of many weekes to reade them over And over against the words many testimonies you quote in the Margent Trait●…è du S. Sacrament de l'Eucharistie par l'illust●… Cardinal deu Perron Paris 1622. I answer as Tully doth for Coelius that there is little coherence and much lesse verity in this objection this calumnie like a bubble dissolveth it selfe 'T is well knowne I never tearme you Catholicks but Papists neither could the many testimonies alleadged by Cardinall Perron for the r●…all presence deterre me from a second encounter with you in the mo●…th of September Anno 1612. for that booke of Perron as you your selfe note was printed in the yeare 1622. so that to make your relation true I must needs have had some speciall revelation that the above named Cardinall ten yeares after would print a booke of the Sacrament so fraught with Testimonies of the Fathers that there needed many weekes to reade them Yet farther to convince you that I feared not to supply the place of a Respondent in this very question notwithstanding all that Bellarmine and Perron and Co●…ceus or Garetius alleadge out of the Fathers for your carnall presence a few w●…ckes after our Conference I encountred D. Bagshaw at Paris and since M. ●…sher and M. Musket and D. Egleston and M. Wood in England and answered all they could alleadge out of Scriptures or Fathers in this point Neither hath any of them as yet impeached any of my answers extant in print now
second No signe Sacrament figure or memoriall of Christs body and blood is his very body and blood for signum signatum the signe and the thing signified the type and the truth are relatively opposed and therefore no more can the one be the other then the Father bee the Sonne or the Master the Servant or the Prince the Subject or the Husband the Wife in so much that Saint Chrysostome concludeth that Melchizedeck could not be a Type of Christ if all things incident to the truth that is Christ himselfe were found in him And Saint Austin apparantly distinguisheth betweene Sacramentum and rem Sacramenti and affirmeth that every signe signifieth something els then it selfe And that it is a miserable servitude of the soule to tak●… the signes for the thing themselves For the signe of truths are one thing 〈◊〉 themselves and signifie an●…ther They are visib●… Seales but things invisible are honoured in them But that which we take at the Lords Table is a Mystery a Sacrament a Signe a Figure a Memoriall of Christs Body and Blood Ergo that which wee receive in the Lords Supper is not the very Body and Blood of Christ after your sense Touching the third If the words which our Saviour spake concerning the eating of his flesh and drinking his blood recorded by the foure Evangelists and Saint Paul are to be taken Sacramentally Spiritually and Figuratively and not in the proper sense which the letter carrieth nothing can be from them concluded for the eating the very flesh of Christ with the mouth for so to eate the flesh of Christ is to eate it corporally not Sacramentally carnally not spiritually properly not figuratively wheras to believe in Christs Incarnation to bee partaker of the benefits of his Passion to abide in him and to be preserved in body and soule to eternal life which are the interpretations Saint Austin giveth is not to eate Christ flesh properly but onely in an allegoricall sense But the words which our Saviour spake concerning the eating of his flesh in the judgement of Sai●… Austin are to bee taken Sacramentally Spiritually and figuratively For the words which our Saviour spake of this argument are either the words of the institution related by the three Evangelists and Saint Paul or they are set downe by Saint Iohn Chap. 6. The former Saint Austin affirmeth to b●… 〈◊〉 sp●…lly●…d ●…d Sacramentally 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 booke against 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 12 and in his Commentary upon the 98. Psalme and in his 23. Epist. to Boniface and in his 33. Sermon upon the words of ou●… Lord the latter he expoundeth in like sort figurative●…y in his 3. book de doct Christi c. 16. in his 2. Sermon of the words of the Apostle and in his 33. Sermon de verbis Dom. And in his 25. and 26. Tractats upon Saint Iohn All these passages are wel knowne to the Learned and although you cast a mist before some of them yet it will easily bee dispelled and the beames of truth in this holy Fathers Writings discover themselves so clearely that they will dazle all your eyes What words can be more conspicuous then those of this Father I coul●… interpret that precept of not eating blood figuratively understanding by blood that which it figureth for our Lord doubted not to say This is my Body when hee gave the signe of his body Here the antecedents possem dicere hoc praeceptum in figurâ positum esse and the words non dubitavit clearely demonstrate Saint Austins meaning to bee that though it might seeme harsh to call the bread which is a signe of Christs body his body as the blood of a beast slaine the soule yet by a figure Christ made no scruple so to tearme it Doubtlesse the blood of any beast slaine is neither properly the soule of that beast nor a signe of a soule present in it no more by Saint Austins comparing these Texts together is bread Christs body nor a signe of his body present in it but onely a Sacrament and memoriall thereof The next passage is as cleare You are not to eate that body which you see nor to drinke that blood which they will shed who crucifie me I have commended unto you a certaine Sacrament or mystery which being spiritually understood will quicken you And although it ought to be celebrated visibly yet it oug●…t to be understood invisib●… Put the parts of the sentence together and the meaning of the whole will be evidently this that which you are to eate and drinke is not my very body which you now see and the Jewes shall pierce and crucifie but a visible Sacrament thereof Which yet received with faith in my bloody death through the power of the Spirit shall quicken you If there could bee any obscurity in this passage it is cleared in the next When Easter is neare saith he we say tomorrow or the day following Christ suffered whereas hee suffered but once and that many yeares agoe so wee say on the Lords day this day the Lor●… rose whereas many yeare●… are past since hee rose why is no man so foolish as 〈◊〉 charge us with a lie in s●… speaking but because we●… call these daies according 〈◊〉 the similitude of those daies in which these things were done and say th●…s is such a day which is not that day but in the revolution of time is like unto it and that is said to be done that day by reason of the celebration or mysterie of the Sacrament which was not done that day but long before Was not Christ once offered in himselfe and yet in the Sacrament he is not onely offered at Easter but every day neither doth he lie who being asked shall answer that he is offered For if Sacraments had not a resemblance of those things whereof they are Sacraments they should not bee Sacraments at all Now in regard of this resemblance for the most part they take the name of the things themselves As therefore the Sacrament of Christs body after a sort is Christs body the Sacrament of his blood is his blood so the Sacrament of faith hee meanes there Baptsime is faith But I assume good-Good-Friday last past was not the very day of Christs Passion nor the last Lords day the day of his Resurrection nor the celebration of the Sacrament the very offering of Christ on the Crosse nor Baptisme the very habit or doctrine of faith but so tearmed onely by a figure to wit a Metonymie therefore neither is that of which Christ said This is my Body his body in propriety of speech but onely so tearmed by a figure because it is the Sacrament and resemblance of his body For all these speeches Saint Austin in this Epistle makes to bee like I know not what can be more plaine except the words of the same Father Christ gave the Supper consecrated with his own hands