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A85414 A short ansvver to A. S. alias Adam Stewart's second part of his overgrown duply to the two brethren. Together with certaine difficult questions easily answered; all which A. Stewart is desired to consider of, without replying, unlesse it be to purpose. A. Steuart [sic] in his second part of his duply to the two brethren. page 166. The civill magistrate cannot bee orthodox, and tollerate a new sect, (hee meanes independencie, and may as well say Presbytery) unles hee tollerate us to beleeve that hee is either corrupted by moneys, or some other waye, so to doe. Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665. 1644 (1644) Wing G1201; Thomason E27_6; ESTC R8324 30,557 41

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safely betake himself to that wherein he apprehends more evidence of the two and though it prove the wrong yet God may accept of his indeavours and good intension who did not blame Isaack for thus blessing Jacob through an errour who yet since he had suspition of him by his voice might have satisfyde himselfe concerning him had he but felt the other parts of his body which were not counterfetted Paul likewise although he was a great blasphemer and Persecuter 1. Tim. 1. 13. Act. 26. 9. 10. 11. Yet he said of himselfe that hee had lived in all good conscience before God untill that day Act. 23. 1. It is a very smale thing that I should bee judged of mans judgement I judge not my selfe for I know nothing by my selfe 1. Cor. 4. 3. 4. and Rom. 14. 6. It is said Hee that regardeth a day regardeth it to the Lord and hee that regardeth not the day unto the Lord he doth not regard it Hee that eateth eateth to the Lord for he giveth God thanks and hee that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not and giveth God thanks From all which way he gathered that a good meaning and intention is greatly excusable before God though it were in an erroneous way of fearing him For all which respects the Presbyterians do not only show themselves injurious in distip ●●ing and ruling over their brethren over whom they have no power being Freemen Free-Christians equall to themselves but sacriledgious to Gods bountifulnesse and long suffering who like the Scribes Pharises Hypocrites lay heavie burthens upon others but they themselves will not put a finger to Luk. 11. 46. who streighten if not quite dam up the way to heaven not suffering others to enter nor yet goe in themselves Math. 23. 13. Good now let us fast or feast let us observe Holy-dayes or not and so for other matters according as Gods spirit shall guide us thereunto and not the Spirit of a Presbyterie unlesse wee could see more in it than in our own Pag. 105. You say The supreame Church Iudicatorie may feare that if they judge any thing amisse their judgments will not be approved and put in Execution with perticular Churches and in all human probability they are like to be crossed Pray demur a little and consider whether in these few lines you have not utterly demolished that mighty but imaginary Babel of unlimmited authoritative Jurisdiction which you had raised unto your Classical Presbyteries or Superlative Ecclesiastical Assemblies Doe you not here of your own accord acknowledge that in some cases i. e. If they judge any thing amisse the Supreme Church Judioature it selfe may feare ●er judgements will not be approved and put in execution so much as in perticular congregations yea and that in all humane probability they are like to be crossed Since then you graunt your Synods and highest Church Assemblies may judge amisse and that in such cases perticular Churches may refuse to yeeld obedience will it not follow by undenyable consequence that such perticular Churches must have Power to examin and even judge the judgements of such Assemblies according to their owne reasons and understandings And that whatsoever shall appeare to bee decreed or ordered amisse by such Ecclesiastical Assemblies according to the light of their own reason and understanding which God has given them and not to be submitted unto with a good conscience ought and must not be put in execution by perticular congregations This is your owne doctrin sometimes though unawares For even on the top of the next page 109. where you bring M. S. enquiring what should be done in case an Oecumenical or General Counsel erre you say you wil returne him answer when hee tells you what must bee done in case the Parliament should erre or if the great Sanedrin of the Old Testament or the Councel of Jerusalem had erred and yet you might remember to have objected thrice in this frivolous discourse of yours upon the like occasion that Quaestio non solvit qu●stionem But do you not perceive a little spirit of perversenes in your selfe that you can thus prevaricate thus play at fast and loose Did you not just now confesse oh the power of truth That if the very supreme Church Judicature should judge amisse shee may feare her judgement will not be approved and put in execution by perticular congregations And doe you so soone boggle at the same Querie afterwards Will not this smal pittance of ingenuity reconcile you how fierce soever unto the Independents Either then recant this and such other passages or stand to them and burn that confused volumne of Sophistical distinctions and meere contradictions Pag. 170. 171. You say the example of the Protestants in France suing for a toleration of their Religion serves nothing towards the obtaining the like for Independents in England But why pray so Magisteriall and peremptory Have not the Independents fought for the Parliament against the Cavaleers Did they not refuse to joyn with the Cavaliers in fighting against the Scots Your Presbyterian Disciplin had scarce been setled in Scotland by Civil and Ecclesiastical authority which you so much boast of in page 160. if Independents had not done that for you which you were not able to do for your selves And doe you thus require them Was there not the same reason for the Scots some few yeares since to have submitted themselves unto the English service-booke then adored by such an English uniformity and sent yea attempted to bee imposed upon them by the Ecclesiastical authority of England as that the English and Irish two numerous and renowned Nations must now be subjugated by fire and sword unto a Scotch Directory Surely if there be a God in Heaven or any conscientiousnesse on earth it will never bee or never long endure nescis quid serus vesper trabat you say the Protestants of France were compelled to idolatry and to bee actors in the damnation of their owne soules against the light of their consciences And what if it be said the Presbyterians professe and practise the same against the Independents against all that differ from them barely in opinion All the principles which concerne coercive Discipline in about or for the Church are common both to Papists and Presbyterians Insted of arguments and reason Will you not say 't is false foolish fond idle ignorant childish currish contradictorie impertinent non sence nothing but wind and words of Goodwin page 169. c. How long will this Great Goliah of the Presbyterians thus boast himselfe How long will the braying of this fowle mouth'd AS disquiet the people of God Pack up your pedl●rs budget of such absurd distinctions abominable contradictions unsufferable tautalogies to say no worse and be gon even anywhere that we may be quit of you speake or write to instruction or edifying hereafter or else hold your peace for shame of God and men But do you not know that it shall be more tolerable for Sodom