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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A29210	Bishop Bramhall's vindication of himself and the episcopal clergy, from the Presbyterian charge of popery, as it is managed by Mr. Baxter in his treatise of the Grotian religion together with a preface shewing what grounds there are of fears and jealousies of popery.	Bramhall, John, 1594-1663.; Parker, Samuel, 1640-1688.	1672 (1672)	Wing B4237; ESTC R20644	100,420	266

their judgment from what it was then which makes the distance seem less now or they did us abominable wrong then or both these Propositions without any disjunction are undoubtedly true Mr. Baxter who was so much mistaken in his Arminian points then may be as much mistaken in his Grotian points now He noteth the time when he began his Book April 9. 1658. and when he ended it April 14. 1658. by which account it cost him but six days inclusively comprehending both the day when he began and the day when he ended In my judgment this circumstance might better have been omitted Among those who seem to approve his Work some will ascribe it to the fortune of Augustus in Suetonius in the life of Claudius 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 happy men may have children at 3 months Some others will take it as a symptom of vain-glory other men must dig deep to lay a good foundation but Mr. Baxters happiness is only by turning the Cock to spout out whole Pages in an instant as if he had found them set to his hands and his part had been only to imprint them Here was neither multa dies nor multa litura neither much time lost nor much pains taken in correcting Thirdly All men will say that he undervalues his Adversary and makes his Victory too cheap without either blood or sweat And on the other side among those who dislike his Work some will make bold to tell him that he presumes too much upon his Readers courtesie to publish such raw undigested fansies upon fewer days deliberation than the Poet requires years nonumque prematur in armum Others will not stick to say that they knew by the Treatise it self though he had held his peace that it cost him no great labour And lastly His saddest and most judicious Readers will suspect that he hath not weighed his Citations as he ought Certainly all those testimonies which he produces out of Grotius in this Book if he had examined them as exactly as he ought with their coherence with the Antecedents and Consequents and compared them with those Authors whom Grotius doth alledge for confirming of his own judgment would have taken up thrice as many days as he assigneth to this Work yea though he had made use of Aristotles Ball and his Bason to keep him waking Before I leave his own part I cannot choose but tell him that I do not I cannot approve of his defence of Sequestrations And what he believeth of idle ignorant unworthy Pastours that they are obliged to make restitution the same do I firmly believe of his Sequestrators that without restitution according to the extent of their power they can have small hope of salvation But first I must crave leave to tell him that he doth utterly mistake the question First he doth disown the casting out of able and godly Ministers because they are Prelatical or supposed Arminians or interested in the late civil differences But we know that the greatest part of sequestred persons were such and ejected for those very reasons So he disowns the question And as he disowns the question so he diverts it from sequestred Ministers to ignorant unsufficient reading Ministers There was no need why he should have put reading Ministers into his Apology and yet he cannot choose but know that good use may be made of reading Ministers in a constituted Church and that there is much less danger of them than of ignorant or seditious Preachers Our reading Ministers of all the Clergy were in least danger of their Sequestrators who looked more at the value of the Benefice than at the qualifications of those persons who were turned out He who doubteth of this general Truth upon inquiry into particular Cases may quickly satisfie himself And as he disowns the question and diverts the question so he begs the question that those Ministers whom they put in were incomparably better than those they turned out No nor yet worthy to be named the same day with them Compare those Provosts and Presidents and Professors and Fellows and Scholars who were turned out of our Universities with those Bulrushes in comparison whom for the most part they introduced or read but the Martyrology of the City of London alone with an impartial eye and consider sadly how many eminent persons for Learning Piety and Industry have been turned out of their livelihoods meerly for those reasons which he disowneth and dares not justifie He who shall do this thing seriously and compare them with their crawling Successors will find cause enough to write upon the dores of their habitations O domus antiqua quam dispari dominaris Domino From this Foot a man may easily conjecture the proportion of the whole Body and what have been the sufferings of our Orthodox Clergy throughout the whole Kingdom contrary to the Laws of God and Man how many of them have been beggered and necessitated to turn Mechanicks or Day-Labourers how many imprisoned or forced to forsake their Native Country and seek their bread among strangers how many have had their hearts broken some starved some murthered and the spoyl of their houses given for a Reward to the Murtherer But this is a sad Subject to dwell upon God Almighty pardon them who have had any hand in these cruel courses and give them true repentance In the mean time their Sequestrators notwithstanding their former censures against all Pluralists and their present pretended self-denial were well contented to hold Pluralities themselves with confidence enough But now I will suppose all that which he desires and which he is never able to prove yea which his own conscience tells him to be much otherwise that all persons who have been sequestred or turned out of their Benefices by them had been such undeserving persons as he feigneth and all those who were put in their places had been such learned honest and Orthodox Divines such as out of conscience and a desire to do good did seek as much after the stipendiary Cures of Reading Ministers as after the larger Benefices of more eminent Scholars yet these sequestred persons had a just title to their Benefices by the Laws of England That which was theirs by Law cannot be taken from them without Law or against Law Dominion is founded in Nature not in Grace Nothing is more hidden than true Grace we understand it not certainly in another hardly in our selves Therefore if Grace should give every one that pretends to it interest in that which is another mans lawful Possession no mans title could be certain to another scarcely to himself from whence must necessarily follow an incredible confusion and an inevitable perturbation of all estates By the Laws of England they were possessed of their Benefices and by the Laws of England they ought to be outed of their Benefices They who decried Arbitrary Government should not be the only men to introduce Arbitrary Government into England The Law of England knoweth no way to out a

with some Papists in the point of perseverance also Sect. 64. The second conclusion was borrowed by Mr. Chillingworth from my Lord Primate That our agreement in the high and necessary Points of Faith and obedience ought to be more effectual to unite us than one difference in opinions to divide us Concerning which there is no need of my suffrage for it is just mine own way My second demand in my proposition of Peace was this That the Creed or necessary points of Faith might be reduced to what they were in the time of the four first Oecumenical Concils according to the decree of the third General Council Who dare say that the faith of the Primitive Fathers was insufficient c. I do profess to all the World that the transforming of indifferent opinions into necessary Articles of Faith hath been that insana laurus or cursed Bay-tree the cause of all our brawling and contention Judge Reader indifferently what reason Mr. Baxter had to disallow my terms of Peace as he is pleased to call them and allow Mr. Chillingworths when my terms are the very same which Mr. Chillingworth proposeth and my Lord Primate before him and King Iames before them both CHAP. VIII The true reasons of the Bishops abatement of the last 400. years Determinations IN his one and fortieth Section he hath these words He will not with Bishop Bramhall abate us the determinations of the last 400. years though if he did it would prove but a pitiful patch for the torn condition of the Church When I made that proposition that the Papists would wave their last 400. years determinations I did it with more serious deliberation than he bestowed upon his whole Grotian Religion Begun April 9. 1658. And finished April 14. 1658. My reason was to controul a common errour received by many that those errours and usurpations of the Church of Rome which made the breach between them and us were much more ancient than in truth they were What those errours and usurpations were cannot be judged better than by our Laws and Statutes which were made and provided as remedies for them I know they had begun some of their gross errours and usurpations long before that time and some others not long before but the most of them and especially those which necessitated a separation after that time Those errours and usurpations which were begun before that time if they be rightly considered were but the sinful and unjust actions of particular Popes and Persons and could not warrant a publick separation from the Church of Rome I deny not but that erroneous opinions in inferiour points rather concerning faith than of faith and some sinful and unwarrantable practices both in point of Discipline and devotion had crept into the Church of Rome before that time But erroneous opinions may be and must be tolerated among Christians so they be not opposite to the ancient Creed of the Church nor obtruded upon others as necessary points of saving faith Neither is any man bound or necessitated to join with other men in sinful and unwarrantable opinions or practices until they be established and imposed necessarily upon all others by Law Whilst it was free for any man to give a fair interpretation of an harsh expression or action without incurring any danger there was no necessity of separation But when these tyrannical usurpations were justified by the decrees of Councils and imposed upon Christians under pain of Excommunication when these erroneous opinions were made necessary Articles of saving faith extra quam non est salus without which there is no salvation when these sinful and unwarrantable practices were injoined to all Christians and when all these unjust usurpations erroneous opinions and sinful and unwarrantable practices were made necessary conditions of Communion with the Church of Rome so that no man could Communicate with the Roman Church but he that would submit to all these usurpations believe all these erroneous opinions and obey all their sinful injunctions then there was an absolute necessity of separation Then if any man inquire when and how this necessity was imposed upon Christians I answer all this was ratified and done altogether or in a manner altogether by these last 400. years Determinations beginning with the Council of Lateran in the days of Innocent the third after the twelve hundreth year of Christ when Transubstantiation was first defined and ending with the Council of Trent So though these were not my terms of peace but preparatory demands yet if these demands be granted our concord would not only be nearer which he acknowledgeth but the peace allmost as good as made and Christians were freed from their unjust Canons and left to their former liberty When they had granted so much it were a shame for them to stick at a small remainder CHAP. IX An Answer to sundry aspersions east by Mr. Baxter upon the Church of England I Have done with all that concerneth my self in Mr. Baxters Grotian Religion But I find a bitter and groundless invective in him towards the conclusion of his treatise wherein he laboureth to cast dirt upon his spiritual Mother the Church of England which out of my just and common duty I cannot pass over in silence He saith p. 75. That this Grotian design in England was destructive to Godliness and the prosperity of the Churches What Churches doth he mean By the Laws of England Civil and Ecclesiastical we ought to have but one Church It was never well with England since we had so many Churches and so many Faiths I am afraid those which he calls Churches were Conventicles He proceedeth that it animated the impious haters of piety and common civility First he ought to have proved that there was such a design in England which he neither hath done nor ever will be able to do That which never had any being but in his Imagination never had any efficacy but in his Imagination He addeth that men were hated for Godliness sake That is to exprest his sense truly were restrained in their seditious and Schismatical courses which he stileth Godliness Fallit enim vitium specie virtutis umbra And troubled and suspended and driven out of the Land though most of them twenty for one were conformists How Conformist and yet persecuted If this be not a contradiction yet it is incredible that so many men should be silenced and suspended every where without Law Certainly there was a Law pretended Certainly there was a Law indeed and that Law made before they were either punished or ordained I will put the right case fairly to Mr. Baxter if he have any mind to determine it Let him tell us who is to be blamed he that undertaketh an office of his own accord which he cannot or will not discharge as the Law injoineth or he that executeth the Law upon such as had voluntarily confirmed it by their own oaths or subscriptions or both He proceedeth that it was safer in

all places that ever he knew for men to live in swearing cursing drunkenness than to have instructed a Mans family and restrained Children and Servants from dancing on the Lords-day and to have gone to the next Parish to hear a Sermon when there was none at home Quicquid ostendat mihi sic incredulus odi I am sory to find so much gall where so much piety is professed Who did ever forbid a man to instruct his own family Let him bu● name one instance for his credits sake or command any Person to dance ●p●n the Lords day or restrain a man fr om going to the next Parish to hear a Sermon if there was no more in it then he pretendeth Here are I know not how many fallacies heaped together No cause is put for a cause and that which is respectively true for that which is absolutely true No man was ever punished for instructing his own family but it may be for holding unlawful Conventicles or for instructing them in seditious schismatical or heretical principles Nor for going to the next Parish to hear a Sermon Thousands did it daily and never suffered for it But it may be for neglecting or deserting his own Parish Church and gadding up and down after non-conformists or after Persons justly suspended or deprived for heterodox Doctrine or labouring to introduce foraign Discipline without Law against Law and strange unknown forms of serving God and administering his holy Sacraments according to their own private phantasies Nor for restraining their Children or Servants from dancing on the Lords day but it may be for taking upon them as busy Bodies and pragmatically controlling the Acts of their Soveraign Prince and lawful superiours which the Laws of God and Man nature and nations Church and Kingdom did allow and for restraining the liberty of their fellow subjects and seeking to introduce new Law without a calling or beyond their calling which the Church of God and Kingdom of England never knew If Mr. Baxter think that no recreations of the body at all are lawful or may be permitted upon the Lords day he may call himself a Catholick if he please but he will find very few Churches of any Communion whatsoever old or new reformed or unreformed to bear him company No no even among the Churches of his own Communion which he calleth the holiest Parts of the Church upon Earth he will find none at all to join with him except the Churches of New England and Old England and Scotland whereinto this opinion hath been creeping by degrees this last half Century of years or somewhat more Before that time even our greatest Disciplinarians in England abhorred not private recreations so they could practise them without scandal And Calvin himself disdained not to countenance and encourage the Burgers of Geneva by his own presence and example at their publick recreations as Bowling and Shooting upon the Lords Day after their devotions at Church were ended In Germany Switzerland France and the Low Countrys all the Churches of his own Communion do enjoy their recreations And in sundry of them their Prayers and Sermons on the afternoon of the Lords Day are but lately introduced whereas formerly not the vulgar only but the most eminent persons did use to bestow the whole afternoon upon their recreations But it may be his pick is not against recreations in general but against dancing in particular Indeed dancing was disliked at Geneva not only upon the Lords Days but upon the other days of the week And if their manner of Dancing there or any where else was so obscene as hath been in use in former Ages in some places not undeservedly No man can be so absurd as to affirm all sorts of Dancing to be unlawful as Miriams Dance and that of the Virgins of Shilo and Iephtha's Daughter and David There is no time for any thing that is absolutely unlawful But there is a time to Dance Eccles. 3. 4. On the other side it is as great an extream to affirm that all sorts of Dances are unlawful Not only consciencious Christians but even modest Heathens have disliked some sorts of Dances And as there are some sorts of Dances unlawful so there may be great danger of abuse in the use of Lawful Dances But where there is no lawful or direct prohibition ther of God or man we may advise a Brother or a Friend to beware of danger but we have no Authority to restrain him except he will of his own accord As for the publick Dances of our Youth on Country Greens upon Sundays after the Dutys of the Day were done I see nothing in them but innocent and agreeable to that under sort of people But if any man out of prudence or conscience or scrupulosity do disaffect them either because they were sometimes used promiscuously or for any other reasons I think it easier to regulate those recreations which should be allowed than to brawl about them perpetually until the end of the World Among all the imputations and aspersions which were cast upon the Governmentt of our late dread Soveraign King Iames and King Charles there was none that had more colour of truth or found more applause among some sorts of persons whose Zeal exceeded their discretion than their Proclamations to tolerate publick recreations upon the Lords Day though there was no Law of God or man to prohibit them The very truth is this King Iames making his Progress through Lancashire about forty years since or more a Country at that time abounding with Papists and Non-Conformists the Country People preferred a Petition to his Majesty that whereas after their hard weekly labours ended they had evermore for time immemorial injoyed the liberty to recreat themselves upon Sundays of late some scrupulous Ministers upon their own heads without any Law or Lawful Authority did restrain them Therefore they humbly besought his Majesty to restore them to their ancient Liberty His Majesty prudently weighing what advantage might be raised to the Protestant Religion in those superstitious parts by his favourable condescension Granted their request upon two conditions First That no such recreations should be used in time of Divine Service or Sermon either forenoon or afternoon Secondly That none should enjoy that liberty but those that had been actually twice at the Church that Day both at morning and evening Prayers And by this prudent condescension he gained the People from Popery to the Protestant Religion The very making this Objection the principal accusation against those two pious Princes is an evident proof of the innocency of their Reigns He proceedeth In some places it was much more dangerous for a Minister to Preach a Lecture once or twice on the Lords Day or to expound the Catechism than never to Preach at all He must excuse us if we can not give credit to what he saith Never any man suffered any where in the Church of England simply for Preaching but it may be for Preaching seditious Sermons