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A08310 The surueyors dialogue Diuided into fiue bookes: very profitable for all men to peruse, that haue to do with the reuenues of land, or the manurance, vse, or occupation thereof, both lords and tenants: as also and especially for such as indeuor to be seene in the faculty of surueying of mannors, lands, tenements, &c. By I.N. Norden, John, 1548-1625? 1607 (1607) STC 18639; ESTC S113314 151,126 260

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to brakes you may learne how the inhabitants by their indeuors doe make good vse of this kind of husbandry both for corne and to increase their pasture by cutting them in August after when they are withered and laying them vpon their grounds with the fold as I told you which causeth the grasse to spring very fast and freshly and they are so farre from coueting to kill them that they fetch them for this vse farre off but the continuance of this course wil impaire them much Moreouer they bring the brakes into their yards where their cattle lodge in the winter and there they rot when they be well dissolued among their other soile they carry it about September and October into their arable fields to their good aduantage And in some places they lay it in the common high waies as in Hartfordshire and other places and about March carry it into their grounds It is so liuely slymy and vegitable a nature as it seldome becomes vtterly consumed but by fat marl● and soile cōtinuall plowing as I told you before But I see heere is a ground next vnto this of another nature full of bushes and briers he is no good husband that oweth it Bai. Neither he that owes it nor a better husband can preuent this inconuenience for besides the bushes the mosse is so full and rancke as the ground is good for nothing but for that small pasture that is in it heere and there Sur. The ground of it selfe I see is good enough and not so prone to mosse as you take it but the cause of the mosse is the bushes for after euery showre of raine the bushes hang full of droppes which often falling on the ground makes the vpper part of the earth so cold that i● increaseth this kind of mosse but without the aid and industrie of a skilfull husband fairest grounds will be come ougly and best land euill and will bring ●oorth vnprofitable weedes bushes brakes bryers thornes and all kind of hurtfull things according to the curse inflicted vpon it for mans fault at the beginning Bail Admit no man did manure the earth yet surely there be many grounds in my conceit would neuer become worse then they be Sur. You are in a great error for the freest grounds that you see the fairest pastures and greenest meddowes would become in short time ouergrowne with bushes woods weeds and things vnprofitable as they were before they were rid and clensed of the same by the industry of man who was inioyned that care and trauaile to manure the earth which for his disobedience should bring foorth these things Bayly How then was the state of this Island of great Brittaine at the beginning when it was first peoplet Sur. A very desert and wildernes ful of woods f●lls moores bogs heathes and all kind of forlorne places howsoeuer we find the state of this Island nowe records doe witnes vnto vs that it was for the most part an vniuersall Wildernes vntill people finding it a place desolate and forlorne beganne to set footing heere and by degrees grew into multitudes though for the time brutish and rude Time taught them and Nature drewe them to find the meanes how to stocke vp trees bushes bryers thornes in stead thereof to plowe the land to sowe set and plant to build Cities for defence aswell against the force of Wilde beasts then plentifull in these grounds which now we manure as against enemies as the ruines of Cilchester in Hamshire among the woods and of Verolamium in Hartfordshire and other Romane Monuments of antiquity doe lay before our eies at this day After Cities as the land became more and more peopled they built lesser Townes Villages and Dorpes and after more securitie Country Farmes and Gruinges and as these increased wild beasts as Beares Bores Woolues such like decreased for when their shelters great woods were cut downe and the Country made more and more champion then the people more and more increased and more and more decreasing the inconueniences that offended them Bai. I obserue in this your discourse some doubts as whether all this Island now great Brittaine were a Wildernes and Desert and whether there were euer such wild beast in it as you speake off Sur. If you will be satisfied by records you may find that most of the Shires in England were Forestae and as for the wild beasts Authors very antentique report of the Calidonian Beare Bore Bull and Kine which were in this Island with infinite many Woolues as by reason of the great woods and fastnesse there are yet in Ireland Bay This our discourse is some what from our matter yet not altogether impertinent for if this lie hidde● and men be ignorant of the state of former times our present swelling and ambitious cōceits may séeme to assume more commendation for present art and industry in reforming the earth thē Ages of old wherein I perceiue and by your discourse collect that our fathers did more in tenne yéeres then we in forty Sur. It is true because we sawe not the earths former deformities we dreame it was then as now it is from the beginning whereas indeede our forefathers by their diligence and trauaile left vnto our forefathers and they by increasing experience and endeuour left vnto vs that faire and fruitfull free frō bryers bushes thorns wherof they foūd it full And this field wherein now we are may be an instance for you see by the ancient ridges or lands though now ouergrowne with bushes it hath bene arable land and now become fit for no vse vnlesse it be reformed And the bushes that are in this field you see are such shrubs and dwarffie bushes and fruitlesse b●iars as are neuer like to proue good vnderwood nor good haying or hedging stuffe If it were fit for either and the country scant of such prouision it might be preserued But sith they haue bene so cropped brused with cattle and sith this countrie is full and most inclinable by nature to this kind of stuffe more then sufficient for fencing and fewell and corne ground and good pasture nothing plentifull if the tenant were a good husband he would stocke it vp and plow it Baylie I thinke it is so full of Mosse it will beare little corne Sur. The Mosse being turned in by the plowe will rot and these hillockes Mole-hils and Ant-hils will inrich the ground cherish the seed sown Bayly What graine is best to be sowne first after the stocking Sur. It seemeth to be a good stiffe clay ground and therefore Otes are best to prepare the earth to make it fit for wheate the next season and after it as the ground may be by the skilfull husbandman thought fit for wheate againe or pease But if the soile were leane and light barly would agree better in it and a light red rush wheat where in the
no man can denie it But when the Oxe and sheepe shall feede where good houses stoode where honest men and good subiects dwelled where hospitalitie was kept the poore releeued the king better serued and the common wealth more steeded who will not say it is the ban● of a common wealth an apparent badge of Atheism● and an argument of apish ambition or wooluish emulation but because there is a statute carefully prouiding reformation I will be sparing to accuse though a man might point at the places and persons Is not this next Ferne hill a close of the Lords demeisnes Bayly You remember well it is so Suruey If my memory faile not there is a deepe bottome in this field and a little rill of water rising out of the hill runnes thorowe it Bayly If you looke but ouer this hill you shall sée it Sur. I ●ee it and I maruaile that there hath beene no respect had of this place for it is a desert bottome full of bushes and shrubs yeelding now little or no benefit Bay What can you aduise to be done with it to make it more profitable Sur. I could wish some cost to be bestowed heerein making a fish pond nay it would make at the least two or three one belowe the other Bai. Alas that were to little purpose as I take it considering the charge of making the ponds the clearing of the water course the clensing of the bodies the making of the dammes or heads of the ponds will be more chargeable then the fish will be profitable Sur. As you conceiue it for where reason or experience teach not there the will followes to be vntoward in all actions and seldome men practise doubtfull things howsoeuer probable for experience sake But in this there is no doubt at all the benefit is certaine by approoued experiēce it paieth the charge to the founder in short time afterward the benefit comes without much labour or cost He that hath trauailed and is acquainted with Sussex Surrie and hath obserued this commoditie may find that gentlemen and others able in those parts will not suffer such a conuenient place as this for the purpose to lie vnprepared for this vse the sweetnesse of the gaine they yearely make of it hath bred such an increase of ponds for fish as I thinke these two shires haue more of them then any twenty other shires in England Baylie That were very much but I take it the making of them is very chargeable for the clensing and digging the ridding of the stuffe and making the head I thinke will consume a greater charge then many yeeres will pay or redeeme againe as I sayd before Sur. That which commonly commeth out of these kind of places is good soile for other lands and will of it selfe quite the cost of clensing and carrying As for the head wherein the greatest charge consisteth may be done for a marke or a pound a pole at the most but where there is good fast earth as is heere I thinke lesse will doe it This pond may be 20. pole at the head few so much and after 2. or 3. yeres being well stored it will yeeld requitall not only for domesticall vse but to be vented very beneficially for the Fishmongers of London doe vse to buy the fish by the score or hundred of a competent scantling when the ponds in the country be sewed and bring thē to London in caske 20 30 40 50 miles and vent them by retaile and if the ponds be so remote frō the maine Mart London as the fish cannot be conueniently transferred other confining Cities townes inhabitāts besides the owners priuate families will find good vse of them and many times also these k●nds of ponds may haue sufficiēt fal of water for corne Mills fulling or wake Mills syth Mills and Mills of other kinds as the country where such conuenient places are may require and it is found by such as duly obserue the courses of countries and inclinations of men that want of prouidence and feare of charge withholdeth mens minds frō many benefites priuate publique and that many times where they are voluntarily mooued to consume far more in matter of meere vanitie and things which right reason holdeth very friuolous Bay Truly I haue obserued this that you say to be true in many especially in such as ambition mooueth without necessity to build more faire and stately piles then their estate or abilities will well heare and couet nothing more then to raise their fame by their follie not respecting commodities so much as pleasures as if the name of a faire house were meate drinke and credite vnto them where if they were forced by necessitie to raise an habitacle it might be so marshalled in discretion that it should not excéede the qualitie of the person neither stand without such supply of all conuenient appendances as might both argue the party prouident and adde meanes vnto all necessaries for alike families reliefe Sur. Men will haue their humors but he is wise that can learne by others harmes to auoyd and by others good example to followe the like Bay Sir you see this peece of ground it hath not the name for nought it is called fernie close and as you see it is full and so ouergrowne with these brakes that all the art we can deuise and labour we can vse cannot rid them Sur. Neglectis vrenda filix innascitur agris sayth Horace But in many places they serue to good vse therefore where they growe it must be considered whether it be better to destroy them or to foster thē for they seldome or neuer growe in a fat soile nor cold but in a sandy and hot ground And as Theophrastus sayth in his eight booke it commeth not vp in manured places but withereth away Bai. How meaneth he by manured places plowed grounds Sur. Plowed grounds may be sayd to be manured but it is not so ment by Theophrastus for he meaneth grounds well soyled with good fat marle and dung for plowing without this kind of manurance will hardly kill it for the ground being naturally barraine it will not quite cost to plowe it till they growe no more And if there be no other soile to manure it take the brakes themselues to kill the brakes Bayly I thinke that were the way to raise more for it is like the adding more fewell to put out the fire Sur. But you see that though the oyle feede the Lampe oyle will extinguish it Bayly That is if you drowne the match with oyle Sur. So if you cut the brakes often while they are young and a little before Midsommer when they are growne and cast them vpon the same land and set the fold vpon it and vse it thus 2. or three yeeres feeding it often with cattle or sheepe you shall find a great decay of them In the weldes of Sussex and Surry places inclinable