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de_fw-la re_fw-la not_o whether_o the_o church_n be_v always_o visible_a but_o how_o far_o it_o be_v visible_a and_o whether_o such_o visibility_n be_v a_o proper_a and_o inseparable_a note_n thereof_o we_o acknowledge_v there_o have_v be_v and_o ever_o will_v be_v a_o true_a church_n visible_a but_o not_o always_o eminent_a conspicuous_a but_o not_o always_o illustrious_a know_v but_o not_o always_o nutorioâ—s_a fair_a and_o specious_a but_o not_o always_o pompous_a and_o glorious_a for_o what_o show_n can_v a_o church_n make_v when_o it_o consist_v but_o in_o abel_n and_o 125._o he_o be_v murder_v and_o afterwards_o in_o enoch_n and_o he_o be_v take_v from_o the_o company_n of_o man_n to_o walk_v with_o god_n or_o at_o the_o death_n of_o our_o saviour_n when_o as_o alenâ—â—s_n reach_v the_o true_a faith_n remain_v only_o in_o the_o bless_a virgin_n and_o one_o candle_n alone_o leave_v on_o easter_n evening_n burn_v after_o all_o the_o other_o be_v put_v out_o in_o the_o roman_a 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oppose_v this_o idolatrous_a decree_n in_o the_o council_n of_o frankenford_n and_o synod_n of_o paris_n together_o with_o jonas_n bishop_n of_o orleans_n and_o charles_n the_o great_a and_o many_o in_o england_n who_o write_v against_o that_o blasphemous_a and_o idolatrize_a synod_n be_v then_o the_o true_a church_n when_o by_o the_o strength_n of_o the_o same_o faction_n transubstantiation_n first_o steal_v in_o secret_o and_o after_o be_v open_o establish_v by_o a_o decree_n in_o the_o council_n of_o lateran_n scotus_n erigena_n and_o bertram_n elfricus_n angl._n and_o berengarius_fw-la and_o their_o scholar_n in_o the_o latin_a church_n which_o be_v in_o number_n like_o the_o sand_n of_o the_o sea_n be_v the_o true_a church_n when_o hildebrand_n begin_v to_o restrain_v the_o clergy_n by_o a_o law_n from_o marry_v nicetas_n the_o abbot_n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o italy_n france_n and_o germany_n who_o withstand_v he_o they_o hold_v no_o fundamental_a error_n in_o any_o point_n of_o faith_n for_o aught_o can_v be_v show_v be_v the_o true_a church_n last_o when_o the_o same_o faction_n prevail_v so_o far_o in_o the_o council_n of_o constance_n as_o to_o decree_v the_o mutilation_n of_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n and_o deprive_v the_o laity_n of_o the_o cup_n contrary_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n john_n husse_n and_o jerom_n of_o prague_n and_o the_o lord_n of_o bohemia_n and_o the_o know_a remainder_n of_o the_o waldenses_n beside_o many_o million_o of_o christian_n both_o in_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a church_n who_o oppugn_v and_o resist_v open_o or_o secret_o that_o sacrilegious_a sanction_n many_o of_o they_o to_o the_o effusion_n of_o their_o blood_n be_v the_o true_a church_n who_o follower_n iâ—â—â—hâ—mia_n and_o in_o france_n and_o elsewhere_o continue_v even_o till_o lut_v she_o time_n who_o be_v expect_v before_o he_o come_v and_o come_v not_o alone_o into_o the_o lord_n battle_n as_o your_o alfonsus_n a_o castro_n testify_v in_o these_o word_n noâ—_z prâ—diit_fw-la 1564._o solus_fw-la lutherus_n tanta_fw-la est_fw-la huius_fw-la seculi_fw-la infoelicitâ—s_fw-la sed_fw-la multâ—…_fw-la hareticorum_fw-la agmine_fw-la seu_fw-la quodam_fw-la satellitio_fw-la stipatâ—â—_z processit_fw-la qui_fw-la illâ—…_fw-la expectasse_fw-la videntur_fw-la ut_fw-la sub_fw-la illius_fw-la vexille_fw-la postea_fw-la militâ—…t_fw-la illi_fw-la 〈◊〉_d nomina_fw-la dederunt_fw-la philipp_n melancthonus_fw-la faber_n capito_n lambertus_n conradus_n pelicanus_n andreas_n osiander_n martin_n bucerus_n allique_fw-la progessis_fw-la temporis_fw-la catervatim_fw-la se_fw-la illius_fw-la faâ—iliae_fw-la inseruerunt_fw-la neither_o come_v luther_n out_o alone_o such_o be_v the_o unhappiness_n of_o this_o age_n but_o guard_v with_o a_o great_a troop_n of_o heretic_n who_o seem_v to_o look_v for_o he_o that_o afterwards_o they_o may_v fight_v under_o his_o banner_n for_o present_o philip_n melancâ—hon_n faber_n capito_n lambert_n conrad_n pelicaâ—_z andr._n osiander_n martin_n bucet_fw-la give_v their_o name_n unto_o he_o and_o other_o in_o process_n of_o time_n in_o great_a number_n insert_v themselves_o into_o his_o family_n paragraph_n xiv_o of_o protestant_n in_o the_o age_n immediate_o before_o luther_n challenge_n or_o at_o least_o they_o must_v show_v we_o who_o be_v the_o true_a professor_n of_o protestancy_n in_o the_o immediate_a age_n before_o luther_n begâ—â—_z in_o what_o city_n town_n or_o country_n they_o dwell_v and_o what_o writer_n speak_v of_o they_o which_o live_v before_o our_o time_n answer_n first_o i_o answer_v that_o we_o need_v not_o give_v any_o particular_a or_o punctual_a answer_n to_o this_o your_o demand_n a_o question_n ground_v upon_o a_o wrong_a supposal_n be_v sufficient_o answer_v by_o overthrow_v the_o ground_n now_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o question_n be_v this_o supposal_n that_o if_o there_o be_v any_o protestant_n before_o luther_n there_o must_v needs_o be_v some_o authentical_a and_o particular_a record_n of_o they_o producible_a by_o â—s_n at_o this_o day_n protestant_n there_o may_v be_v then_o yet_o not_o now_o extant_a at_o least_o for_o 〈◊〉_d to_o come_v by_o i_o pray_v how_o many_o million_o not_o only_o of_o right_a beleeuâ—…_n but_o heretic_n also_o have_v be_v since_o christ_n time_n who_o be_v never_o upon_o a_o particular_a record_n be_v there_o not_o a_o kind_n of_o heretic_n call_v acephali_n because_o their_o head_n and_o first_o author_n can_v never_o be_v theopâ—litano_fw-it know_v again_o how_o many_o record_n and_o writing_n especial_o of_o this_o nature_n have_v perish_v either_o by_o command_n of_o authority_n or_o by_o casualty_n restore_v we_o the_o work_n of_o wickliff_n which_o you_o burn_v and_o many_o other_o author_n who_o you_o have_v either_o extinguish_v or_o of_o late_a by_o your_o index_n expurgatorius_fw-la clip_v their_o tongue_n or_o you_o keep_v close_a prisoner_n in_o the_o vatican_n and_o this_o question_n of_o you_o will_v soon_o be_v answer_v in_o the_o mean_a while_n as_o petrus_n molineus_n say_v witty_o you_o deal_v with_o we_o herein_o as_o if_o a_o thief_n who_o have_v steal_v away_o a_o man_n purse_n and_o make_v away_o the_o money_n shall_v demand_v of_o the_o true_a man_n what_o be_v become_v of_o your_o money_n if_o you_o have_v any_o such_o sum_n of_o money_n in_o what_o bag_n in_o what_o purse_n where_o be_v those_o bag_n and_o purse_n and_o c_o if_o such_o a_o question_n as_o you_o make_v here_o have_v be_v put_v tothe_n prophet_n elijah_n to_o wit_n who_o be_v those_o 7000._o the_o oracle_n of_o god_n speak_v of_o 4._o who_o never_o bow_v the_o knee_n to_o baal_n in_o what_o city_n town_n or_o country_n dwell_v they_o the_o prophet_n can_v not_o have_v satisfy_v at_o that_o time_n this_o demand_n for_o he_o think_v himself_o to_o be_v there_o leave_v alone_o the_o child_n of_o israel_n say_v he_o have_v forsake_v thy_o covenant_n throw_v 14._o down_o thy_o altar_n and_o slay_v thy_o prophet_n with_o the_o sword_n and_o i_o even_o i_o only_o be_o leave_v and_o they_o seek_v my_o life_n to_o take_v it_o away_o if_o i_o shall_v put_v the_o like_a question_n to_o you_o who_o be_v thosein_fw-fr the_o age_n immediate_o before_o christ_n come_v in_o the_o flesh_n who_o sincere_o expound_v the_o law_n and_o gainsay_v the_o scribe_n and_o pharisee_n their_o corrupt_a gloss_n refuce_v by_o our_o saviour_n matth._n 5._o 21._o in_o what_o city_n or_o town_n dwell_v 16._o they_o what_o writer_n speak_v of_o they_o which_o live_v before_o christ_n time_n i_o know_v you_o will_v be_v to_o seek_v for_o answer_v when_o the_o woman_n 6._o in_o the_o apocalypse_n flee_v into_o the_o wilderness_n where_o she_o be_v flee_v one_o thousand_o two_o hundred_o and_o threescore_o day_n and_o the_o saint_n heb._n 11._o wander_v in_o wilderness_n and_o lay_v in_o den_n and_o cave_n of_o the_o earth_n can_v you_o tell_v i_o into_o what_o wilderness_n she_o flee_v or_o they_o wander_v in_o what_o cave_n and_o den_n they_o lay_v yet_o have_v many_o worthy_a champion_n of_o our_o faith_n meet_v with_o you_o even_o in_o this_o field_n and_o come_v off_o with_o credit_n as_o abbot_n against_o hill_n usher_n do_v success_n ecclesiâ—…_n fox_n act_n and_o monument_n field_n of_o the_o church_n humphrey_n his_o answer_n to_o campiâ—n_n his_o three_o reason_n the_o author_n of_o catalogâ—â—_n test_n veritatis_fw-la doctor_n white_n in_o his_o way_n iohan._n munster_n in_o vortleg_n nobilis_fw-la discursus_fw-la joachimi_fw-la camerarii_fw-la histor._n narratio_fw-la de_fw-la fratrum_fw-la orthodoxorum_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la in_o bohemia_n moravia_n and_o polonia_n ioh._n lidii_fw-la waldensis_fw-la the_o publisher_n of_o the_o history_n of_o the_o waldenses_n in_o france_n for_o 400_o year_n and_o more_o nichol_n vignier_n eccles._n histor._n birkeck_n the_o protestant_n evidence_n peruse_v aeneas_n sylv._n his_o story_n of_o the_o bohemian_n fascic._n rerum_fw-la expetendarum_fw-la et_fw-la fugiendarum_fw-la and_o you_o â—hal_o find_v more_o for_o the_o continuance_n of_o our_o church_n till_o luther_n time_n than_o ever_o you_o will_v be_v able_a to_o râ—â—ell_v very_o rainerius_n the_o inquisitor_n though_o entcrtain_v against_o we_o yet_o speak_v so_o much_o for_o we_o that_o he_o deserve_v elerum_fw-la a_o fee_n of_o we_o the_o sect_n say_v he_o of_o the_o waldenses_n or_o lionist_n be_v more_o pernicious_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n then_o all_o other_o sect_n first_o because_o it_o have_v be_v of_o long_a continuance_n for_o some_o say_v it_o have_v endure_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n second_o because_o it_o be_v more_o general_a than_o any_o other_o for_o there_o be_v almost_o no_o country_n into_o which_o be_v do_v not_o creep_v three_o for_o that_o all_o other_o sect_n do_v bring_v a_o horror_n with_o the_o heinousness_n of_o their_o blasphemy_n against_o god_n but_o this_o have_v a_o great_a appearance_n of_o godliness_n because_o they_o live_v just_o before_o man_n and_o believe_v all_o thing_n well_o concerning_o god_n and_o all_o the_o article_n
which_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n only_o they_o speak_v evil_a of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o clergy_n â—o_z this_o popish_a inquiâ—â—tor_n i_o will_v add_v another_o romish_a nomenclator_n namely_o conradus_n wimpina_n ex_fw-la fagis_fw-la who_o sum_v up_o all_o his_o 1528._o wit_n and_o read_n to_o make_v a_o recapitulation_n of_o all_o heretic_n and_o sectary_n as_o he_o term_v they_o indeed_o such_o as_o have_v oppose_v the_o corrupt_a doctrine_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o of_o these_o he_o give_v we_o this_o pedigree_n the_o lionist_n beget_v the_o waldenses_n the_o waldenses_n the_o dulcinist_n the_o dulcinist_n the_o wickliffist_n the_o wickliffistâ—_n the_o hussite_n the_o hussite_n the_o lutheran_n you_o say_v these_o be_v all_o bnethren_n in_o iniquity_n and_o join_v hand_n against_o the_o church_n of_o roâ—e_n but_o yet_o they_o agree_v not_o among_o themselves_o not_o hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n which_o the_o protestant_n do_v at_o this_o day_n these_o be_v your_o shift_n but_o wimpina_n will_v beat_v you_o out_o of_o these_o dodge_v for_o first_o for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o lionist_n and_o waldenses_n â—e_z deliver_v it_o as_o follow_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v spiritual_a babylon_n and_o a_o harlot_n that_o in_o the_o altar_n after_o consecration_n there_o be_v not_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o only_o consecrate_v bread_n which_o by_o a_o figure_n be_v say_v to_o be_v christ_n body_n as_o it_o salutem_fw-la be_v say_v of_o the_o rock_n that_o it_o be_v christ_n that_o the_o saint_n understand_v nothing_o of_o human_a affair_n upon_o earth_n that_o god_n alone_o be_v to_o be_v call_v upon_o there_o be_v no_o purgatory_n no_o venial_a sin_n the_o benediction_n of_o salt_n ash_n holy_a water_n etc._n etc._n have_v no_o profit_n in_o it_o indulgence_n pardon_n and_o jubilee_n be_v of_o â—o_z worth_n the_o image_n of_o saint_n be_v not_o to_o be_v keep_v in_o church_n nor_o to_o be_v worship_v exorcism_n be_v vain_a and_o unprofitable_a whereunto_o rainerius_n add_v the_o waldenses_n do_v not_o receive_v the_o canon_n of_o the_o mass_n they_o say_v that_o the_o offering_n which_o be_v make_v in_o the_o mass_n by_o the_o priest_n be_v nothing_o nor_o do_v any_o way_n profit_n they_o dislike_v canonical_a hour_n they_o say_v that_o the_o church_n do_v err_v in_o forbid_v priest_n marriage_n they_o disallow_v the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n and_o extreme_a unction_n they_o condemn_v latin_a prayer_n and_o say_v they_o do_v the_o people_n no_o good_a they_o believe_v not_o the_o legend_n of_o saint_n they_o esteem_v the_o holy_a cross_n no_o other_o than_o simple_a and_o bare_a wood_n they_o affirm_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a do_v not_o at_o all_o profit_n the_o soul_n of_o the_o depart_a and_o last_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o apostle_n without_o the_o ordinance_n of_o the_o church_n be_v sufficient_a to_o salvation_n if_o any_o desire_n to_o read_v more_o concerning_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o lionist_n albigenses_n and_o waldenses_n and_o their_o agreement_n with_o the_o present_a reform_a church_n in_o every_o point_n of_o moment_n i_o refer_v he_o to_o the_o confession_n of_o the_o waldenses_n exhibit_v to_o uladislaus_n king_n of_o hungary_n in_o the_o year_n of_o our_o lord_n 1508._o extant_a in_o orthwinâ—s_fw-la grâ—tius_fw-la and_o to_o the_o writing_n of_o lucas_n tudensis_fw-la plichdorâ—ius_n and_o other_o against_o the_o waldenses_n set_v forth_o by_o james_n gretzer_n at_o ingolstad_n an._n 1613._o now_o that_o dulcinist_n and_o wickliffist_n receive_v their_o doctrine_n from_o these_o waldenses_n or_o lionist_n the_o same_o wimpina_n clear_o testify_v wickliff_n faith_n he_o suck_v heresy_n which_o he_o endeavour_v hussitisque_fw-la to_o bring_v into_o england_n from_o the_o waldenses_n and_o john_n of_o lion_n ringleader_n among_o heretic_n and_o in_o the_o same_o book_n p._n 21._o he_o say_v that_o dulcinus_n in_o the_o year_n of_o our_o lord_n 1306._o be_v taint_v with_o the_o error_n of_o the_o waldersâ—s_n and_o that_o he_o put_v all_o europe_n into_o a_o kind_n of_o amazement_n and_o that_o in_o the_o mountain_n of_o trent_n there_o be_v a_o remainder_n of_o the_o dulciâ—â—sts_n even_o to_o this_o day_n and_o in_o the_o prologue_n of_o his_o four_o book_n he_o cast_v up_o the_o total_a sum_n in_o this_o manner_n out_o of_o this_o recapitulation_n of_o heâ—esies_n â—f_fw-mi thou_o keep_v it_o well_o in_o thy_o mind_n thou_o may_v see_v how_o heresy_n come_v out_o of_o england_n into_o bohemia_n out_o of_o bohemia_n into_o saxony_n that_o be_v â—o_z let_v pass_v those_o thing_n which_o be_v more_o ancient_a how_o they_o make_v a_o progress_n from_o oxford_n to_o prague_n from_o prague_n to_o wittenberg_n so_o that_o wickliff_n hâ—ss_n and_o luther_n deliver_v they_o successive_o from_o hand_n to_o hand_n whence_o it_o appear_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o utter_v by_o the_o luthera_n be_v at_o this_o day_n which_o be_v not_o before_o speak_v of_o and_o teach_v by_o the_o wickâ—â—ffists_n and_o hussite_n this_o confession_n of_o conradus_n wimpina_n a_o very_a learned_a romanist_n and_o a_o witness_n beyond_o exception_n against_o they_o be_v worth_a gold_n and_o may_v be_v fit_o compare_v to_o the_o bufonite_n a_o pretions_n stone_n well_o know_v yet_o take_v out_o of_o the_o head_n of_o a_o toad_n for_o no_o better_o be_v this_o wimpina_n full_a himself_o of_o the_o poison_n of_o popery_n and_o swell_v with_o malice_n against_o the_o lutheran_n and_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n parag._n xv_o divine_a faith_n not_o to_o be_v build_v upon_o human_a story_n or_o record_n challenge_n if_o they_o can_v satisfy_v we_o in_o all_o these_o demand_n in_o which_o alone_o we_o offer_v to_o join_v issue_n with_o they_o then_o do_v we_o think_v the_o day_n to_o be_v we_o if_o they_o can_v name_v any_o who_o do_v both_o believe_v and_o profess_v the_o protestant_a doctrine_n in_o all_o point_n let_v they_o do_v it_o and_o then_o if_o we_o do_v not_o disprove_v they_o the_o day_n be_v they_o and_o see_v all_o be_v bring_v to_o this_o issue_n we_o wish_v your_o learned_a to_o encounter_v we_o in_o this_o only_a point_n and_o whatsoever_o they_o shall_v return_v for_o answer_v not_o belong_v hereunto_o we_o shall_v account_v impertinent_a and_o unworthy_a reply_n as_o not_o direct_v to_o our_o purpose_n which_o be_v to_o find_v out_o a_o true_a catholic_a and_o visible_a church_n answer_n to_o answer_v you_o in_o the_o doctrinal_a point_n though_o we_o can_v not_o satisfy_v you_o in_o these_o your_o historical_a demand_n neither_o shall_v your_o faith_n gain_v any_o thing_n by_o it_o nor_o we_o lose_v for_o the_o main_a and_o lead_a question_n between_o we_o be_v which_o church_n you_o or_o we_o hold_v the_o true_a undoubted_a christian_a faith_n without_o which_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v and_o in_o a_o second_o place_n what_o be_v the_o proper_a note_n of_o the_o true_a church_n of_o which_o st._n cyprian_n speak_v true_o deum_fw-la non_fw-la potest_fw-la habere_fw-la patrem_fw-la qui_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la non_fw-la habet_fw-la matrem_fw-la he_o can_v have_v god_n for_o his_o father_n who_o have_v not_o the_o church_n for_o his_o mother_n these_o be_v quaestiones_fw-la de_fw-la fide_fw-la in_o a_o different_a degree_n now_o quaestiones_fw-la de_fw-la fide_fw-la can_v be_v determine_v by_o human_a story_n as_o ballarmin_n right_o deduce_v for_o human_a 21._o story_n or_o record_n faciunt_fw-la tantum_fw-la fidem_fw-la humanam_fw-la cui_fw-la falsum_fw-la subesse_fw-la potest_fw-la that_o be_v make_v or_o beget_v a_o human_a faith_n or_o rather_o credulity_n subject_a to_o error_n not_o a_o divine_a and_o infallible_a belief_n that_o must_v be_v build_v upon_o sure_a ground_n although_o you_o can_v prove_v your_o present_a romish_a belief_n to_o be_v as_o ancient_a as_o the_o sadducee_n heresy_n and_o as_o universal_o spread_v as_o the_o arrian_a or_o of_o as_o interrupt_a continuance_n as_o the_o nestorian_a this_o will_v not_o win_v you_o the_o day_n do_v all_o the_o ecclesiastical_a story_n which_o be_v extant_a give_v in_o evidence_n not_o only_o for_o the_o visibility_n but_o also_o for_o the_o sincerity_n of_o your_o present_a romish_a church_n yet_o such_o a_o proof_n be_v meet_v human_a will_v not_o amount_v to_o a_o divine_a infallible_a argument_n to_o build_v divine_a faith_n upon_o on_o the_o contrary_a if_o we_o can_v prove_v evident_o by_o the_o write_a word_n of_o god_n that_o our_o faith_n and_o not_o you_o be_v that_o precious_a faith_n once_o give_v to_o the_o saint_n and_o that_o the_o doctrine_n of_o our_o church_n at_o this_o day_n perfect_o accord_v with_o the_o harmony_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o evangelist_n and_o consort_v in_o all_o point_n with_o the_o undoubted_a orthodoxal_a church_n in_o their_o time_n we_o need_v not_o allege_v any_o story_n or_o record_n for_o