méerè contrary doctrin vnto the scriptures It is therefore conuenient that you shew vs wher in you we differ in what pointes in what doctrine and then we shal thinke that there is some shewe of good meaning in you otherwise if you continue disslikers of our profession and shewe vs not wherein but referre vs to your authors bookes we shall neuer find out the difference betwene vs. 13 In déede in your long discourse you haue shewed your disliking in one part of our doctrine to wit of predestination which you impute to be the cause of the fulnes of prisons in England but before the doctrine was set foorth prisons haue béene full of leude persons such as regarde no religion Therefore you doe not well to charge the doctrine of predestination with so foule a faulte Which doctrine standeth vpon the omnipotencie of God so that they that acknowledge his almightinesse must of force graunt his power in predestination and election And although some stumble at the same yet the faulte is not in the doctrin but in the persons who take it by that part which it is not to be holden by For as a sharpe two edged sworde being taken by the blade or point to defende a man may as soone hurte himselfe as his enemie euen so who taketh the doctrine by such parte as the holy scriptures haue appointed it will be to their comfort otherwise it may hurt thē Many haue writtē largely in that argumēt whervnto hitherto few haue replyed And if no other matter gréeue your minds but this doctrin I doubt not but reconciliation may easely be bad but I am affrayde our Iustification in Christ our acknowledging ourselues to be sinners our weaknes in perfourming y law is also some cause of discention betwéen you and vs which I woulde be glad to vnderstande for my erudition 14 You say that H. N. exhorteth to true repentance godly loue vpright faith c. If we did not the like we were impions hipocrites but he you say doth it with power which we woulde gladly féele 15 Our iustification and redemption bragge we neuer so much thereof saye you helpeth not except a regenerate life followe We agrée with you that a regenerate life doth shewe a iustified man but maketh not a man iust For it is the fruite and not the roote of our iustification 16 But that you tearme our repentance obedience faith loue c. the vpright baptisme of the father your meaning I am ignorant of To take vp in the beléefe our crosse daily against sinne and this to be the true baptisme of the sonne as you say And when Christ hath gotten in vs a liuing forme or shape by faith and so be raised vpp in newnesse of life this you cal the true baptisme in the holy ghost All which I doe acknowledge may haue verie apt application so long as we imagine not a perfection to be wrought in vs as to be without sin For to be like to Christ or haue his image is to be vnderstoode to be like minded to him who did not sinne but that priuiledge onely perteineth to him and not to vs For he is like to vs in all thing sinne except but this barre sinne is the badge whereby his death and office worketh vppon vs to our saluation And except we with al the Prophets Patriarches Apostles other Gods children doing our best still acknowledge our selues sinners I cannot sée how Christs death doth by any meanes perteine vnto vs Gladly would I be resolued in this point 17 And nowe at this day we are called as you say and might finde much more rest if such enimies to al godlines as I am were not This is verie sharpe iudgemēt Bicause I manifest your familie doth it followe that I am enemie to all godlines Is ther no godlines vpō earth but among men of your profession only Christs houshold were very smal then and yet as I am an enemie to your doctrine so your persons I haue not hated For whom in their trouble I haue sought deliuerie and haue knowne of your méetings if I had béen enuiously minded but far be that from me 18 As for E. L. I protest vnto you euen by the Lord that he is vtterly ignorant of any my doings neither did I sée him this yeare and halfe yet did hée participate to mee of Christopher Vittals behauiour longe agoe Nowe touching your frée confession before all men out of the mouth of H. N. of your doctrin certeinly it is shadowed with such phrases and circumstāces that few can find any sense in his bookes but manye good wordes without conclusion which shoulde not bee in the puritie of a good cause 19 As for those propheticall spéeches in the Apocalipse of the white stone with a newe name written therein which none knoweth sauing he that receiueth it if this be H. N. as you would slily insinuate tel vs in plaine tearmes For your hidden misteries wil not longer serue 20 You aske what ministration was euer true which came not from God his owne mouth I answere as before that there must be both an inwarde calling which is from God an outward calling from men Nowe if H. N. or you will shewe vs that he is called frō God his owne testimonie is not sufficient neither doe his bookes manifeste his calling Therefore for the credite of his new doctrine it is required that he worke miracles or else prooue vnto vs that his doctrine is not disagréeing from the holy scriptures and that substancially If you woulde goe plainely to worke and shewe vnto vs your authours doctrine by principles prooue the same by holy scripture surely I and others woulde conceiue that vpon some grounde of good conscience you were seuered in iudgment from vs For so long as the matter remaineth hidden men construe your doinges worse peraduenthen it is it augmēteth suspition that being called to witnes forth your doctrine you are founde so fearefull and fainte that it sheweth not a testimonie of the spirite of God For where the spirte of God resteth there is ioyned wisedome audacitie constancie trueth and plaine dealing 21 And where you holde it good policie to flée frō one citie to an other being sought for I grant it to be reasō yet being called broght before y magistrats then fearefully or cowardly to fainte is méere impietie in a iust cause He that denieth me before men I will c. For either ye vtter such a confession as is holden of vs and beléeued among vs or else venie your author and his doctrine vtterly Did the Martires in the primitiue Church so Did our brethren in Queene Maries dayes so Nay cleane contrarie being called they did boldly publishe the trueth of Christ with open and plain speaches did set down their faith in principles to the eyes of al men and not kéepe it secrete in corners 22 Assuredly if H. N. be a minister of the Lorde then haue I much
in the loue which in playne tearmes is to growe to perfection and to be without sinne which they affirme in this life to be brought to passe If this be good doctrine then the holie Scripture is contrarie 1. Iohn first Chapter If we say we haue no sinne we deceiue our selues and there is no truth in vs. Likewise Paule Rom. 8. verse 20. The creature is subiect to vanity not of his owne will but by reason of him that subdued it vnder sinne To the Galathi Chapter 5. verse 17. The flesh Iusteth against the spirite and the spirite against the fleshe continually These are contraries the one to the other so that ye cannot doe the same thinges that ye would And Almightie God did pronounce vpoÌ„ man at the beginning this saying God sawe that the wickednes of mans heart was great and all the imaginations and thoughtes of his heart were euill continually Gen. Chapter 6. verse 5. The whole scope of the holie Scripture doth proue that God hath shut vp all vnder sinne Now if H. N. or his Il luminate Elders will still auouch that they are without sinne then may I as truly aledge y they are without christ Let the terrible example of Sharpe and Allin moue you to coÌ„sider how desperat a doctrine you imbrace whose souden deaths without any comfort in Christ may remaine as an example to all posteritie For the Author of this errour is Satan who in a desperate state leaueth his pupils For it was pride that caused almightie GOD to execute his iudgement vpon him his state béeing angelical so likewise he séeketh to bring man into the same destruction by the same meanes through pride and presumption that we are pure without sinne and so exalting our selues we might haue the swifter damnation For Almightie God hath cast our condition state so lowe that without his mercie set foorth by Christe we all perishe as is witnessed by Paule * God hath included vs vnder sinne * Also both Iewes and Gentiles are vnder sinne as it is writteÌ„ There is none righteous no not one c. We are neuer so néere vnto our God as when we féele our sinne as a burthen or heauie loade lying vppon our conscience nor neuer further off then when we féele or testifie that we are without sinne which persuasion Sathan doth féede our humours withall contrarie to the holie Scripture Therfore I conclude that this principle to liue in this life without sinne is méerely the suggestion of Sathan and not of the spirite of god Christ Iesus came into the worlde to saue sinners And againe I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentaunce If Henrie Nicholas and his Illuminate Elders be now without sinn Christe came not for to saue them * For there is none other name vnder heauen giuen to men by which we shal be saued but Christ Iesus Therefore manifestly it appeareth that H. N. and his Illuminat Elders are clean excluded and haue no néede of Christe for his office and death doeth properly belong to sinners then consequently not to them Therefore ye nouices of the Family which sée not into what daunger Christopher Vittell H. N. doeth miserably bring your troubled mindes looke wel betimes espye their subtiltie leaue the doctrine which is without comfort and hath no warrant in the holie scripture forsake those péeuish and darke riddles of H. N. and cleaue vnto the holie scripture leaue the phantasies of H. N. and his scholler Vittell and by little and little ye shall espie their craft and subtiltie how they set vp them selues and not Christ Iesus how they teach false doctrine which dare not abide the light nor they are not able to defend and yet persuade you in corners that it is the spirite of God by whiche they speake How gréeuous ye are vnto the Church of GOD may appeare by the trauell which is taken for your sakes what offence ye giue what stumbling blockes ye are vnto the simple whome ye ought not to offend no not the least let your conscience beare witnesse * It is necessarie that offences come but woe bee vnto them by whome they come Know this for certeine without the Arke there is no saluation except ye abide in the vine Christe ye bring foorth no fruite ye cannot serue two maisters béeing so contrarie If ye cleaue to H. N. and his doctrine ye haue no parte nor fellowshippe with Christe Iesus for H. N. destroyeth the office of Christe our Lorde and taketh away the comfort of his Gospel in stéede whereof he placeth his vpright fréedome with a perfection in this life suche as the holie Scripture alloweth not For our battell is continuall and shall neuer haue end vntill our flesh be dissolued and we at rest in Christe If we must atteine to suche perfection in this life as H. N. sheweth then our Sauiour Christe did in vaine teache vs to pray continually Forgiue vs our trespasses as we forgiue c. Also Leade vs not into temptation Which petitions are without effect if his doctrine be true Therefore as ye loue your own soules beware of his doctrine examine it better acknowledge Christ Iesus and his Gospell and leaue the drowsie dreames of a doting Dutchman and the erronious spirite of Christopher Vittell arude and vnlearned Ioyner And although they boast neuer so much of the spirite yet vse the counsell of the holie Ghost Beleeue not euerie spirite but trie y spirit whether he be of God. Think not within your selues that they cannot erre it is a priuiledge not giuen to mortal man but only to our immortall God. God is true and all men are liers Beléeue not that his Bookes are written by the spirite of God for God is not contrarie to himselfe the doctrine of H. N. is manifest contrarie to God the doctrine published by Christ in his gospel If ye continue in the Family of H. N. ye denie Christ. We may not hold of Paule or Apollo for they were not crucified for vs we are counted Christs friendes if we doe those things that he commaundth What haue we to dâ—e with H. N. or his commaundementes â–ª Deceiue not â—our selues with your pretenced the we of a holie life but confesse with the Prophet Dauid Psalme 130. If thou Lorde shouldest looke straightly vpon sinnes Lorde who should abide it â–ª Euen the holâ—est y euer were being â—arthly men haue néede to call vppon God in this manner with the beloued Prophet Dauid If you imagine that your workes do helpe or profite you to saluation ye are with the Pelagians and Papistes demers of the grace of God in Christe our Lord in which doctrine of merite there is no comfort nor consolation If ye continue still in the Family of H. N. there is neither hope nor helpe for you Christes sacraments you conteâ—ine which are to vs the seales and cognisances of our redemption and tokens of his couenant and promise Ye haue forsaken the
ouershot my selfe and if you can prooue it to me I shall gladly receiue it and will be redie to recant and cal backe all my wordes and aske mercie in like fourme as you haue prescribed but hitherto as I am persuaded and as my conscience beareth me witnesse I haue not in any point slandered you nor of malice spokeÌ„ any thing against you for if I did know any nerer way to saluatioÌ„ then y which our sauiour Christ hath taught in his Gospell I woulde with all gréedenesse imbrace it And if I can vnderstand that euer this your doctrin was taught publikly since christ our Lord his assention by any godly writer in Christs Church I will ceasse and subscribe vnto you otherwise blame me not though I continue in that minde which the Lorde in mercie by his Christ hath made manifest to me to my comforte The God of mercie and consolation giue you a right spirite to depend vpon the puritie of his worde written by the holy Ghoste and not to depend vpon the vncertainetie of man giuing testimonie to him selfe so shall both you and I bee brought to sée rightly into our weakenesse shall heare y ioyful voyce y Paule heard My grace is sufficient for thee For y Lords power loue is manifested made kno wen vnto the worlde through our weakenesse and all our righteousnesse is Sicut pannus menstrualis God in mercie giue vs all his grace that in séeking the true way that ledeth to life euerlasting we be not led into y by paths of errour but leade vs and guide vs O Lorde so shall we knowe thy ways aright imbrace our sauing health in Christ declared to all nations If it please you to reply I shall receiue it thankfully London the 12. of Februarie Your friend I. R. A Letter of the Familie to I. R. written by E. R. M. Rogers these are to signifie vntd you that I haue perused a booke wherof you are the authour In your preface you say you haue vsed this order to set downe the authors owne speach not adding or diminishing any thing with the name of the booke Chapter or folio I do wish that your word and deede had agreed therein I call to minde that I haue read many authours bookes within this 35. or 36. yeares and among them all I haue not found any writer that hath taken such an order as you haue done for who so euer will write to confute an Authour he should set downe the Authours owne wordes as they stande written in his bookes and so to confute them by the Scriptures orderly and not to take out here some and there some and of diuers sentences and part of diuers sentences to make one sentence You haue added and diminished in diuers places and to inlarge your booke withall you haue set downe the most part of the sentences in two places as y readers may perceiue if they do confer your booke with the Authours bookes wâ—y them with indifferencie I am fully persuaded that the sober discreet wise and godly learned do ne wil not allowe of it that any Authour should be so abused as you haue abused this Authour in wresting belying and peruerting his writings Salonton saith A false record wil make a lye A false witnesse shall not remaine vnpunished and hee that speaketh lyes shall not escape I pray God open the eyes of your heart that you may see your ignorance and repent You do ground one point of your matter vpon Adrian Gisling a man of credite as you say y he did read in a Duche booke intituled the Glasse of righteousnesse wherein the Authour doth certifie his Familie of Loue that they must passe foure most terrible castels full of combersome enimies before they come to the house of Loue the first is Iohn Caluine the second the Papistes the third Martine Luther the fourth the Anabaptistes howe good of credite so euer Adrian Gisling is of he hath not at any time read any such matter in any of that Authours bookes he might perhaps read of such matter in some other booke hauing that title I my self haue read ouer diuers of the bookes and also the booke called the Glasse of righteousnesse of that Authours writing that you take your occasion against and there is no such Castles written in any of his bookes therfore Adrian Gisling is therein vtterly deceiued and I do beleeue no lesse but those other thinges that you haue written vpon reporte against â— Author to make him odious vnto the people is as contrarie I suppose you should haue done well if you had not come in with a flourish to attempt battell and beginne a skirmish against those that haue no pleasure or delight in warre or battell but much rather doe desire peace vnitie It is not reckoned for a manly part that an armed souldier should take vp weapon and fight with a naked childe It is written Let not him that putteth on his harnesse boast him selfe as he that putteth it off If the little vnarmed childe Dauid doe come to battell with his sling and stones one of the stones may happen to hit Golias in the forhed be he neuer so well appointed for battell and trusteth in his owne strength But what you haue done you can not vndo it is too farre past your hands And where you call in doubt that the familie will carpe as you terme it at your booke and do offer if they do answere it a speedie replie will be performed I for my parte I giue GOD thankes am not ignoraunt of the Lande of strife and contention that ye walke in and as it appeareth ye haue a pleasure therein I haue wandered vppe and downe there ouerlong and consumed much time there about to my greate greefe and sorrowe for those that doe loue strife and contention would haue other like to them selues S. Paule saith The seruants of the Lord must not striue And Saint Iames saith If ye haue bitter enuying and strife in you hearts reioyce not neither be lyars against the trueth and then following where enuie and strife is there is vnstablenes all maner of euill workes In the Homilie for whitsunday the second part ye may read this sentence But to conclude and make an end ye shall briefly take this short lesson where so euer ye finde the spirit of arrogancie and pride the spirit of enuie hatred contention crueltie murther extortion witchcraft Necromancie c. assure your selues that there is the spirite of the diuell and not of GOD albeit they pretend outwardly to the worlde neuer so much holinesse I haue no desire pleasure nor delight to carpe at your booke nor to striue or contend with you or any one neyther is there any other who doe desire peace and vnitie that will haue any delight or pleasure in strife and contention but leaue euery one to the Lorde Salomon saith The sinne of the wicked is his owne snare Saint
sufficient to answer for him were they weyed in the balance of equitie You terme the saide Familie simple howe much are they bound to laude the Lorde and to giue him most high thankes and praise that they are simple Moses saith Would God that all the Lordes people could prophesie and that the Lord would put his spirite vpon them So doe I wish from the bottome of my heart that all the Lordes people were simple concerning euill and malice then strife contention enuying backbiting lying persecuting for coÌ„scieÌ„ce cause theft â–ª murder whoredome dronkennesse Idolatrie and such like should not beare so great dominioÌ„ as it doth Is it an odious matter in your eyes to be simple I pray you peruse well these few sentences of Scripture here following The testimonie of the Lorde is pure and giueth wisedome to the simple God thou knowest my simplenesse my faultes are not hid from thee He taketh vp the simple out of the dust lifteth the poore out of the mire The Lorde preserueth the simple When thy worde goeth foorth it giueth light and vnderstanding euen vnto the simple A simple mans wisdome is despised and his wordes are not heard Timely in the morning do they arise to murder the simple and poore Reioyce thou greatly O daughter Sion be glad O daughter Hierusalem for loe thy King commeth vnto thee euen the righteous and Sauiour lowly and simple is he The poore simple sheepe that had a respect vnto me knewe thereby that it was the word of the Lord. You say the zeale of the Lordes house carried you so farre that you could not stay till you had published suche matter as came to your handes I for my part can not so conceiue that it was the Lordes zeale for there coulde not any one deale in such sort vse such spenches in writing as you haue done if he were carried by the zeale that the lord doth require It may rather be gathered that you had such a zeale as Iesus the sonne of Syrach writeth of where he saith Zeale and anger shorten the dayes of life and also There is nothing but wrath zeale fearefulnesse vnquietnesse feare of death ' rigours anger and strife c. But my desire is of the Lorde that he would plant the true zeale in vs all and then the loue v3 to loue God aboue all and our neighbour as our selues shoulde not be so despised and had in contempt with many as it is nowe in these dayes You say that Syr William Moore a worthy Iustice in Surrie had the examination of one or two of the Familie who vttered much matter which you are loth to write and yet in the end of your booke you haue set downe the Articles that were confessed before Syr William Moore the 28. of May 1561. by two of the Familie of loue You would haue it appeare to the readers as though there wer two at one time before a worshipfull Iustice of Peace and one or two at an other time before Syr William Moore and all those confessours were but two parties and one matter as you well knowe for you haue or haue had the written copie of the Articles with the names of those two parties that as it is said were the confessours of the saide Articles before Syr William Moore who was not at that time v3 the 28 of May. 1561. knowne or called by the name of Syr William Moore for he was but an Esquire What false and forged matter is set downe in the saide Articles and that the confessours of them are nor neuer were of the Familie of Loue I leaue to the iudgement of the same two parties and of all those that haue had haue or shall haue the cause in question and will consider of it with indifferencie Concerning the citizen your neighbour whome you doe so often name in your booke to discredit him as much as in you lyeth although you haue nâ— iust cause so to doe I leaue to the iudgement of all those discreet wise sober and honest citizens his neighbors who haue had at any time to deale with him there or else where and also to the discreete wise sober vertuous and godly learned that haue had at any time conference with him I hope you will from hence foorth take heede how you mâ—ke any such attempts to speake or write vpon report nor belye wrest ne peruert any authours writings for lyars shall haue their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone What Authour hath written any booke if one shoulde deale therewith as you haue done with this Authours writing but there might be founde many faultes c. To me as I suppose you are vnknown but if I should write what I haue heard of you and of Maister Bateman your furtherer in this your attempt vpon report happily you nor he wold scarse take it in good part It were good and according to the rule of the holy Scripture that all fault finders wold first looke into them selues that it be not saide Hypocrite first cast out the beame out of thine own eye and then shalt thou see clearely to plucke out the moâ—e that is in thy brothers eye c. I haue presumed to be so bolde as to certifie you my minde touching a fewe pointes of your booke hoping not lesse but you will take this my simple plaine and rude hand writing in good part although it lacke good Methode and doe wish that my time of leasure woulde haue permitted me to certifie you my minde in many other paintes of your booke but for as much as my time wil not serue thereto I am constrained to hold my self coÌ„tented Thus M. Rogers I bid you farwel wishing to you as to my self althogh there be many ways paths walked in of those that do trauell in religion â—reuer the right pathway be found which is to followe Christe Iesus our Sauiour in his footsteps yet I hope our God will in the end bring vs all into the same right path and that our sinnes shall be by and through the death passion and bloudsheading of our Lord and sauiour Iesus Christ done away and be of the number of those that shall be set on the right hand to whoÌ„ our sauiour Iesus Christ when he coÌ„meth in his glory al the holy Angels with him shal say vnto Com ye blessed childreÌ„ of my father inherit the kingdom prepared for you froÌ„ the beginning of the world c. to the end I might through the power of the lord be one of the number of the elect haue I had my exercise in the Scriptures And to the end that I might be furtherer in the vnderstanding of the Scriptures I haue read diuers Authors who haue set too their helping hand to the opening of the Scripture so farre foorth as the Lorde gaue them vnderstanding thereof and although some haue in diuers pointes varied in iudgement Salomon saith