sect_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n neither_o have_v i_o ever_o hear_v of_o any_o petition_n make_v about_o it_o much_o less_o for_o any_o independent_a government_n m._n s._n and_o where_o conscience_n be_v tender_a a_o little_a violence_n be_v a_o great_a torment_n to_o it_o a._n s._n it_o have_v be_v tell_v you_o twenty_o time_n 1._o that_o no_o man_n violate_v or_o force_v your_o conscience_n 2._o and_o all_o sect_n bring_v the_o same_o pretext_n of_o tender_a conscience_n 3._o and_o we_o tell_v you_o again_o that_o your_o way_n be_v not_o way_n of_o tender_a but_o of_o turbulent_a conscience_n a._n s._n 3._o argument_n no_o state_n in_o christendom_n where_o there_o be_v one_o only_a religion_n establish_v will_v admit_v the_o public_a exercise_n of_o any_o other_o or_o endure_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o which_o be_v already_o receive_v wherefore_o then_o shall_v it_o be_v do_v here_o m._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n 1._o suppose_v that_o malignant_a supposition_n viz._n that_o presbytery_n and_o apologism_n make_v two_o differ_a religion_n 2._o that_o there_o be_v no_o state_n in_o christendom_n etc._n etc._n 3._o that_o apologism_n in_o case_n it_o be_v tolerate_v must_v needs_o become_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o religion_n which_o be_v establish_v in_o the_o land_n a._n s._n to_o the_o first_o i_o answer_v 1._o that_o neither_o i_o do_v suppose_v nor_o yet_o can_v suppose_v any_o such_o thing_n for_o we_o see_v no_o common_a confession_n of_o faith_n of_o the_o apologism_n neither_o will_v the_o apologist_n be_v know_v or_o declare_v their_o tenet_n but_o be_v evermore_o in_o the_o synod_n and_o out_o of_o the_o synod_n observe_v what_o be_v there_o say_v or_o do_v take_v their_o advantage_n upon_o all_o occasion_n and_o shape_a their_o tenet_n according_a to_o the_o current_n of_o the_o time_n 2._o if_o the_o word_n religion_n be_v take_v in_o a_o large_a signification_n as_o it_o contain_v in_o itself_o both_o doctrine_n and_o discipline_n than_o the_o independent_o be_v of_o a_o different_a religion_n from_o we_o since_o their_o discipline_n be_v altogether_o different_a 3._o if_o it_o be_v take_v for_o a_o potential_a part_n of_o justice_n which_o incline_v the_o will_n to_o honour_n god_n then_o the_o independent_o differ_v from_o we_o in_o very_o many_o act_n of_o religion_n both_o in_o those_o that_o it_o exercise_v whether_o they_o be_v internal_a or_o external_a and_o in_o those_o that_o it_o command_v to_o other_o virtue_n and_o consequent_o in_o religion_n itself_o for_o they_o have_v much_o superstition_n in_o the_o act_n of_o their_o religion_n 1._o in_o respect_n of_o the_o person_n in_o that_o they_o make_v every_o man_n a_o minister_n to_o preach_v and_o to_o rule_v 2._o in_o their_o sacrament_n in_o that_o they_o take_v their selve_o to_o be_v so_o holy_a that_o no_o protestant_n yea_o though_o he_o so_o live_v as_o that_o he_o give_v no_o offence_n to_o any_o man_n be_v yet_o worthy_a of_o their_o communion_n etc._n etc._n if_o it_o be_v take_v for_o the_o doctrine_n of_o faith_n we_o know_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o their_o church_n since_o they_o be_v all_o independent_a one_o upon_o another_o but_o as_o for_o that_o of_o particular_a independent_a person_n master_v goodwin_n religion_n of_o coalmanstreet_n who_o be_v think_v to_o be_v a_o independent_a and_o matriculate_v into_o the_o independent_a society_n be_v a_o religion_n different_a from_o we_o as_o appear_v by_o his_o book_n which_o be_v blame_v by_o the_o best_a minister_n of_o london_n whereof_o some_o of_o they_o have_v write_v against_o he_o so_o be_v that_o of_o that_o other_o most_o famous_a independent_a who_o preach_v not_o long_o ago_o at_o westminster_n of_o some_o of_o who_o doctrine_n i_o give_v you_o a_o short_a relation_n but_o even_o now_o as_o for_o the_o second_o supposition_n m._n s._n he_o say_v that_o it_o be_v manifest_o untrue_a as_o it_o be_v notorious_o know_v in_o france_n the_o low-countries_n etc._n etc._n a._n s._n but_o it_o be_v notorious_o know_v in_o france_n that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o will_n of_o the_o state_n and_o of_o all_o papist_n that_o protestant_n be_v tolerate_v there_o as_o it_o appear_v evident_o 1._o by_o so_o many_o bloody_a massacre_n and_o butchery_n of_o the_o protestant_n there_o 2._o by_o so_o many_o war_n whereby_o they_o obtain_v a_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n 3._o they_o have_v many_o prince_n of_o the_o royal_a blood_n for_o they_o who_o be_v protestant_n many_o officer_n of_o the_o crown_n many_o of_o the_o parliament_n in_o paris_n and_o final_o king_n henry_n the_o four_o who_o in_o the_o beginning_n be_v a_o protestant_n to_o who_o by_o succession_n belong_v the_o crown_n for_o who_o right_a they_o seek_v very_o stout_o in_o sundry_a battle_n furnish_v he_o with_o man_n and_o money_n for_o the_o war_n and_o he_o after_o his_o external_a revoult_n remain_v evermore_o a_o protestant_a in_o his_o heart_n as_o it_o be_v common_o believe_v and_o fear_v the_o jesuitical_a faction_n in_o recompense_n of_o their_o good_a service_n grant_v they_o liberty_n of_o their_o conscience_n free_a exercise_n of_o their_o religion_n and_o town_n of_o surety_n and_o security_n therefore_o they_o obtain_v then_o their_o liberty_n by_o the_o sword_n and_o afterward_o they_o be_v confirm_v by_o law_n but_o sore_o against_o the_o state_n and_o the_o papist_n will_n and_o all_o this_o notwithstanding_o the_o papistical_a sect_n evermore_o undermine_v they_o and_o by_o little_a and_o little_a against_o all_o law_n cut_v they_o short_a of_o those_o liberty_n so_o dear_o purchase_v by_o they_o but_o if_o you_o take_v france_n for_o such_o a_o refuge_n for_o libertinism_n you_o will_v do_v well_o to_o try_v whether_o you_o can_v settle_v a_o colony_n of_o you_o there_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v quick_o experiment_n it_o how_o little_a favour_n you_o shall_v receive_v there_o in_o respect_n of_o that_o you_o have_v already_o receive_v of_o your_o own_o countryman_n as_o for_o the_o netherlands_o if_o there_o be_v but_o one_o religion_n there_o they_o will_v not_o tolerate_v any_o other_o and_o what_o they_o have_v do_v in_o tolerate_v many_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o will_n as_o necessity_n that_o have_v force_v they_o to_o do_v so_o and_o the_o history_n testify_v how_o unwilling_a they_o be_v in_o the_o beginning_n to_o grant_v any_o toleration_n at_o all_o to_o the_o papist_n where_o they_o be_v already_o establish_v if_o you_o of_o late_o have_v be_v tolerate_v there_o 1._o it_o be_v because_o you_o teach_v not_o there_o in_o their_o language_n but_o in_o english_a to_o english_a man_n 2._o and_o there_o you_o profess_v not_o for_o any_o thing_n we_o know_v that_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v episcopal_a or_o contrary_a to_o god_n word_n as_o you_o do_v here_o 3._o they_o believe_v that_o if_o you_o can_v have_v get_v the_o exercise_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n in_o england_n you_o will_v not_o have_v be_v so_o averse_a from_o it_o as_o you_o be_v 4._o we_o know_v not_o whether_o your_o religion_n be_v tolerate_v by_o the_o state_n general_n or_o whether_o it_o be_v tolerate_v positive_a or_o negatiuè_a the_o three_o supposition_n be_v true_a but_o m._n s._n repli_v or_o rather_o answer_v that_o every_o difference_n in_o judgement_n do_v not_o make_v a_o schism_n in_o that_o religion_n which_o be_v profess_v on_o both_o side_n a._n s._n neither_o say_v i_o any_o such_o thing_n but_o m._n s._n here_o give_v himself_o much_o to_o do_v with_o many_o long_a and_o idle_a discourse_n without_o any_o reason_n at_o all_o if_o he_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o independency_n be_v whether_o a_o heresy_n or_o a_o schism_n i_o have_v evermore_o deal_v fair_o with_o he_o i_o have_v give_v a_o definition_n of_o both_o heresy_n be_v a_o error_n in_o part_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n in_o he_o who_o once_o profess_v it_o whereof_o he_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v yet_o he_o continue_v and_o pertinacious_o persevere_fw-la in_o it_o but_o schism_n be_v a_o breach_n of_o christian_a charity_n only_o whereby_o man_n separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n pertinacious_o persevere_v in_o the_o same_o here_o i_o take_v heresy_n and_o schism_n in_o a_o strict_a signification_n as_o they_o be_v take_v by_o divine_n both_o protestant_n and_o schoolman_n when_o they_o distinguish_v they_o one_o from_o another_o if_o he_o admit_v these_o definition_n which_o be_v ordinary_o approve_v of_o in_o the_o school_n we_o may_v examine_v thereby_o the_o independency_n and_o see_v whether_o it_o be_v a_o schism_n or_o a_o heresy_n or_o not_o if_o he_o reject_v it_o i_o will_v pray_v he_o to_o give_v we_o some_o better_a one_o i_o say_v not_o that_o independency_n be_v a_o schism_n or_o that_o the_o independent_a
subjection_n unto_o their_o order_n for_o compulsion_n be_v a_o principio_fw-la externo_fw-la contra_fw-la inclinationem_fw-la agentis_fw-la it_o proceed_v from_o a_o externall_n principle_n against_o the_o natural_a inclination_n of_o the_o agent_n viz._n that_o be_v compel_v to_o produce_v the_o action_n and_o so_o be_v exercise_v only_o against_o the_o body_n over_o which_o the_o church_n take_v no_o authority_n but_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n alone_o 2._o neither_o say_v i_o to_o my_o knowledge_n any_o such_o thing_n 3._o neither_o cite_v you_o the_o place_n 4._o only_o i_o remember_v that_o in_o my_o observation_n and_o annotation_n upon_o the_o apology_n p._n 39_o §_o 4_o i_o say_v that_o the_o combine_a eldership_n have_v a_o authoritative_a power_n all_o man_n and_o church_n thereof_o be_v bind_v by_o law_n and_o covenant_n to_o submit_v themselves_o thereunto_o viz._n in_o a_o spiritual_a manner_n since_o the_o power_n be_v spiritual_a never_o a_o word_n here_o of_o compulsion_n or_o violence_n our_o church_n neither_o compel_v man_n body_n nor_o have_v they_o any_o prison_n or_o any_o pecuniary_a mulct_n but_o if_o any_o man_n will_v trouble_v the_o church_n and_o be_v disobedient_a it_o be_v the_o duty_n of_o the_o christian_a civil_a magistrate_n to_o use_v his_o power_n to_o hinder_v such_o a_o disorder_n if_o we_o have_v not_o a_o christian_a and_o a_o orthodox_n magistrate_n in_o some_o place_n as_o in_o france_n and_o in_o some_o part_n of_o germany_n or_o if_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n will_v not_o do_v his_o duty_n he_o who_o will_v not_o submit_v unto_o our_o church-government_n be_v cast_v out_o and_o punish_v spiritual_o by_o simple_a censure_n suspension_n or_o excommunication_n according_a to_o the_o quality_n of_o his_o sin_n 5._o learn_v also_o i_o pray_v you_o m.s._n that_o it_o be_v not_o fallibility_n but_o actual_a fail_n or_o ignorance_n that_o may_v excuse_v he_o who_o be_v subject_a unto_o any_o government_n or_o authority_n from_o obedience_n nor_o yet_o all_o fail_v in_o judgement_n or_o error_n but_o only_o that_o which_o be_v antecedent_n to_o all_o the_o act_n of_o our_o will_n which_o moral_o we_o can_v shun_v and_o be_v invincible_a 6._o neither_o be_v it_o evermore_o expedient_a that_o subject_n know_v certain_o whether_o their_o governors_n judge_n or_o do_v right_a in_o what_o they_o do_v for_o subject_n in_o some_o case_n must_v obey_v in_o virtue_n of_o a_o probable_a knowledge_n or_o conjecture_v that_o their_o governor_n command_v just_o and_o especial_o when_o they_o be_v not_o compel_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o that_o which_o they_o believe_v to_o be_v unlawful_a for_o they_o to_o do_v for_o i_o put_v the_o case_n that_o the_o king_n and_o parliament_n take_v a_o resolution_n to_o make_v war_n against_o any_o foreign_a prince_n and_o press_v some_o man_n to_o serve_v in_o such_o a_o war_n it_o be_v not_o for_o every_o press_a man_n to_o call_v the_o king_n and_o parliament_n to_o a_o account_n about_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o war_n neither_o be_v they_o bind_v to_o discover_v to_o every_o soldier_n all_o the_o secret_n and_o particularity_n of_o state_n thereupon_o m.s._n ob._n 28._o why_o be_v you_o not_o satisfy_v with_o that_o subjection_n to_o your_o presbyterial_a decision_n that_o plead_v no_o exemption_n but_o only_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n about_o the_o lawfulness_n or_o truth_n of_o they_o a.s._n ans_fw-fr 1._o we_o be_v content_a with_o it_o 2._o and_o in_o case_n of_o non-satisfaction_n our_o church_n give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n 3._o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v satisfy_v when_o many_o thousand_o be_v satisfy_v we_o maintain_v that_o it_o be_v not_o equitable_a that_o when_o 20000._o or_o 30000._o be_v satisfy_v two_o or_o three_o under_o pretext_n of_o non-satisfaction_n or_o twenty_o or_o thirty_o pertinacious_a fellow_n shall_v have_v liberty_n to_o trouble_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n in_o the_o world_n 4._o we_o say_v moreover_o that_o the_o church_n in_o dispute_v and_o confer_v with_o they_o and_o afterward_o in_o judge_v that_o she_o have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n have_v give_v they_o sufficient_a satisfaction_n moral_o and_o that_o wise_a man_n shall_v judge_v it_o sufficient_a in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la and_o thereupon_o that_o they_o be_v to_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o church_n in_o foro_fw-la externo_fw-la for_o there_o be_v no_o other_o way_n to_o proceed_v to_o sentence_n either_o in_o foro_fw-la civili_fw-la or_o ecclesiastico_fw-la 5._o if_o this_o will_v not_o satisfy_v they_o yet_o if_o they_o will_v be_v quiet_a and_o not_o trouble_v the_o church_n of_o god_n with_o their_o conventicle_n we_o can_v in_o christian_a charity_n tolerate_v they_o in_o their_o weakness_n yea_o in_o their_o malice_n if_o there_o be_v any_o till_o god_n impart_v unto_o they_o more_o grace_n but_o this_o serve_v nothing_o for_o independent_o who_o be_v come_v over_o the_o sea_n to_o beg_v a_o quarrel_n of_o we_o and_o to_o erect_v church_n in_o despite_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n against_o all_o law_n yea_o against_o their_o own_o tenet_n if_o they_o write_v as_o they_o believe_v for_o they_o pretend_v that_o church_n can_v be_v erect_v without_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n consent_v 6._o if_o all_o this_o content_v they_o not_o and_o their_o conscience_n will_v not_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v otherwise_o the_o port_n be_v free_a for_o they_o they_o may_v be_v go_v and_o live_v in_o all_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n in_o new_a england_n and_o trouble_v no_o more_o the_o country_n here_o than_o the_o country_n shall_v trouble_v they_o there_o 7._o or_o if_o this_o will_v not_o content_v they_o wherefore_o will_v they_o have_v more_o liberty_n here_o than_o they_o will_v grant_v we_o in_o new-england_n m.s._n ob._n 29._o if_o party_n may_v have_v cause_n to_o be_v offend_v with_o the_o church_n then_o have_v they_o power_n to_o judge_v of_o their_o action_n as_o well_o as_o they_o of_o they_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo_fw-la the_o second_o also_o a.s._n i_o distinguish_v the_o consequent_a of_o the_o proposition_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o public_a judgement_n it_o be_v false_a for_o every_o particular_a or_o private_a man_n have_v not_o a_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v nor_o consequent_o a_o public_a judgement_n they_o may_v judge_v by_o a_o private_a power_n which_o proper_o be_v not_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d potestas_fw-la authoritas_fw-la or_o authoritative_a power_n or_o judgement_n but_o a_o judgement_n of_o discretion_n so_o it_o be_v true_a but_o such_o a_o judgement_n be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o exempt_v he_o from_o obedience_n i_o mean_v not_o a_o active_a but_o a_o passive_a or_o rather_o a_o permissive_a obedience_n for_o howsoever_o his_o erroneous_a judgement_n may_v excuse_v and_o dispense_v he_o from_o a_o act_n wherein_o he_o be_v actor_n against_o his_o conscience_n yet_o can_v it_o not_o excuse_v he_o from_o suffer_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n for_o if_o he_o will_v not_o do_v what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n they_o may_v do_v and_o he_o must_v suffer_v and_o permit_v they_o to_o do_v what_o he_o will_v not_o and_o what_o they_o will_v according_a to_o god_n word_n whereof_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n to_o judge_v he_o must_v no_o way_n oppose_v actiuè_fw-fr the_o public_a judgement_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n since_o he_o have_v no_o public_a power_n he_o must_v not_o set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n but_o deal_v with_o the_o church_n according_a to_o his_o vocation_n and_o if_o he_o can_v prevail_v in_o confer_v with_o the_o church_n he_o may_v appeal_v from_o a_o parish_n presbytery_n to_o a_o class_n if_o there_o he_o be_v likewise_o oppress_v he_o may_v appeal_v to_o a_o provincial_n synod_n if_o there_o again_o he_o be_v wrong_v by_o their_o judgement_n he_o may_v appeal_v unto_o a_o nationall_n synod_n if_o there_o he_o be_v oppress_v which_o probable_o will_v not_o ordinary_o fall_v out_o in_o all_o these_o judicatories_n rather_o than_o in_o first_o and_o last_o instance_n in_o a_o independent_a church_n compound_v peradventure_o of_o seven_o or_o eight_o idle_a fellow_n or_o pretend_v to_o be_v offend_v he_o must_v sit_v down_o patient_o and_o if_o he_o have_v any_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n he_o may_v consult_v foreign_a divine_n and_o if_o those_o satisfy_v he_o not_o in_o this_o singularity_n of_o his_o opinion_n i_o then_o propound_v my_o question_n whether_o it_o be_v more_o equitable_a that_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n submit_v to_o this_o particular_a man_n opinion_n or_o he_o to_o they_o object_n but_o what_o if_o they_o err_v all_o and_o he_o be_v right_a answ_n when_o god_n have_v not_o give_v you_o any_o ordinary_a remedy_n you_o must_v have_v patience_n there_o must_v be_v offence_n yea_o heresy_n but_o woe_n unto_o he_o that_o be_v the_o cause_n
s._n 1._o your_o argument_n be_v so_o spiritual_a that_o we_o can_v understand_v it_o theologia_n symbolica_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la 2._o we_o say_v it_o be_v no_o violence_n to_o oblige_v all_o to_o be_v subject_a unto_o god_n ordinance_n 3._o and_o to_o deny_v a_o toleration_n to_o they_o that_o be_v contrary_a for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n all_o thief_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v and_o it_o shall_v be_v forbid_v to_o punish_v they_o m._n s._n tell_v we_o pag._n 90._o in_o case_n the_o minor_a part_n in_o that_o nation_n have_v dissent_v from_o the_o major_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o such_o or_o such_o a_o law_n relate_v unto_o practice_n and_o so_o have_v dissent_v in_o this_o practice_n in_o case_n the_o major_a part_n have_v take_v the_o advantage_n of_o their_o brethren_n weakness_n and_o because_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n shall_v have_v force_v they_o against_o the_o light_n of_o their_o judgement_n to_o have_v alter_v their_o practice_n or_o if_o they_o refuse_v shall_v have_v tread_v and_o trample_v upon_o they_o it_o shall_v have_v be_v as_o apparent_a a_o breach_n of_o the_o law_n we_o speak_v of_o as_o any_o oppression_n in_o civil_a proceed_n a._n s._n if_o the_o major_a part_n in_o such_o a_o case_n have_v oppress_v the_o minor_a part_n in_o consideration_n of_o their_o weakness_n or_o because_o of_o their_o weakness_n it_o will_v have_v be_v true_a but_o if_o the_o major_a part_n in_o not_o force_v the_o minor_a to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n have_v hinder_v it_o from_o bring_v in_o of_o a_o new_a religion_n and_o a_o new_a discipline_n against_o that_o which_o be_v ordain_v by_o god_n it_o have_v be_v no_o oppression_n no_o violence_n but_o a_o act_n of_o obedience_n to_o their_o god_n and_o as_o for_o that_o pretext_n of_o the_o tenderness_n of_o conscience_n it_o be_v the_o common_a refuge_n of_o all_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n of_o the_o world_n your_o pretend_a tenderness_n of_o 〈◊〉_d be_v it_o never_o so_o tender_a ought_v not_o to_o prejudice_v god_n law_n you_o must_v learn_v obedience_n unto_o god_n word_n if_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v his_o 〈◊〉_d and_o you_o must_v learn_v that_o every_o man_n must_v not_o do_v as_o seem_v good_a in_o his_o own_o eye_n but_o that_o the_o spirit_n of_o prophet_n in_o public_a government_n must_v be_v subject_a unto_o the_o prophet_n otherways_o all_o shall_v go_v in_o confusion_n m._n s._n tell_v we_o again_o that_o to_o conscientious_a man_n civil_a liberty_n without_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n be_v of_o little_a value_n a._n s._n the_o great_a liberty_n that_o conscientious_a man_n can_v desire_v be_v to_o serve_v god_n and_o to_o obey_v his_o ordinance_n and_o what_o be_v beside_o that_o be_v not_o liberty_n but_o licentiousness_n if_o you_o value_v not_o such_o a_o liberty_n you_o be_v not_o worthy_a of_o it_o you_o may_v have_v liberty_n of_o conscience_n howbeit_o you_o establish_v no_o new_a discipline_n in_o the_o kingdom_n m.s._n his_o 3._o answ_n p._n 90._o though_o god_n give_v no_o such_o toleration_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o by_o law_n yet_o he_o do_v actual_o tolerate_v for_o a_o long_a time_n together_o with_o much_o patience_n not_o only_o a_o minor_a but_o a_o major_a part_n of_o the_o jewish_a nation_n in_o a_o manner_n the_o whole_a nation_n forty_o year_n in_o opinion_n note_v rious_o sinful_a act._n 13.18_o so_o than_o you_o must_v tolerate_v your_o brethren_n not_o only_o in_o some_o opinion_n and_o practice_n which_o be_v dialectical_o and_o topical_o evil_a but_o even_o also_o in_o those_o which_o be_v demonstrative_o such_o if_o you_o will_v follow_v the_o practice_n of_o god_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v 1._o to_o the_o antecedent_n that_o god_n tolerate_v not_o the_o israelite_n in_o their_o sin_n absolute_o for_o sundry_a time_n he_o punish_v their_o sin_n and_o that_o very_o grievous_o with_o pestilence_n mortality_n and_o make_v of_o they_o a_o prey_n unto_o their_o enemy_n till_o such_o time_n as_o they_o repent_v and_o turn_v from_o their_o sin_n unto_o he_o and_o then_o he_o turn_v his_o anger_n from_o they_o yea_o core_n dathan_n abiron_n and_o their_o adherent_n for_o their_o schism_n be_v swallow_v up_o quick_a by_o the_o earth_n and_o aaron_n and_o mirian_n strike_v with_o leprosy_n and_o god_n keep_v they_o all_o in_o the_o wilderness_n as_o in_o a_o prison_n for_o the_o space_n of_o forty_o year_n and_o suffer_v none_o of_o they_o to_o enter_v into_o the_o land_n of_o promise_n only_o he_o tolerate_v they_o in_o not_o punish_v they_o by_o eternal_a death_n or_o ex_fw-la condigno_fw-la 2._o neither_o do_v god_n make_v any_o law_n in_o favour_n of_o their_o sin_n to_o tolerate_v it_o as_o the_o independent_o require_v here_o 3._o howbeit_o god_n himself_o tolerate_v much_o in_o they_o yet_o ordain_v he_o not_o that_o churchman_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v tolerate_v they_o but_o command_v they_o both_o to_o oppose_v every_o one_o according_a to_o their_o vocation_n and_o ordain_v sundry_a punishment_n against_o such_o kind_n of_o sin_n inâ—â—â—_n law_n 2._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n 1._o for_o god_n be_v the_o sovereign_a legislator_n or_o lawgiver_n who_o may_v dispense_v with_o his_o own_o law_n and_o remit_v sin_n commit_v against_o it_o but_o so_o can_v we_o 2._o because_o we_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o law_n and_o must_v obey_v it_o so_o be_v it_o not_o with_o god_n 3._o we_o be_v bind_v by_o a_o particular_a obligation_n and_o duty_n to_o put_v it_o in_o execution_n so_o be_v it_o not_o of_o god_n 4._o by_o the_o same_o reason_n you_o may_v conclude_v as_o well_o that_o we_o must_v pardon_v sin_n give_v our_o child_n to_o death_n for_o other_o man_n sin_n or_o create_v a_o world_n if_o we_o will_v follow_v god_n practice_v 5._o god_n practice_n be_v not_o to_o be_v follow_v by_o man_n but_o in_o that_o which_o be_v conform_v to_o his_o law_n and_o his_o reveal_v word_n for_o christ_n church_n be_v a_o country_n wherein_o his_o people_n live_v not_o by_o custom_n or_o imitation_n of_o practice_n but_o by_o law_n wherefore_o since_o there_o be_v no_o law_n for_o toleration_n of_o heresy_n and_o sin_n they_o must_v not_o be_v tolerate_v 6._o i_o retort_v your_o argument_n for_o since_o god_n punish_v his_o people_n grievous_o in_o those_o forty_o year_n in_o the_o wilderness_n for_o their_o sin_n so_o shall_v man_n now_o be_v punish_v for_o it_o 7._o and_o since_o core_n dathan_n abiron_n and_o their_o adherent_n for_o their_o schism_n and_o complaint_n against_o authoritative_a power_n be_v punish_v by_o death_n so_o shall_v such_o sinner_n now_o a_o day_n be_v so_o punish_v in_o like_a manner_n 8._o and_o since_o the_o israelite_n be_v not_o permit_v to_o enter_v into_o the_o land_n of_o canaan_n which_o be_v a_o type_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n no_o more_o shall_v heretic_n schismatic_n and_o other_o sinner_n have_v liberty_n to_o enter_v into_o the_o christian_a church_n for_o in_o so_o do_v we_o shall_v imitate_v god_n 9_o if_o this_o argument_n hold_v all_o adultery_n poligamy_n drunkenness_n gluttony_n idolatry_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n since_o god_n tolerate_v such_o sin_n those_o forty_o year_n in_o his_o people_n when_o they_o be_v in_o the_o wilderness_n i_o be_o exceed_o ashamed_a of_o you_o m._n s._n that_o you_o shall_v be_v so_o absurd_a and_o impious_a as_o to_o plead_v thus_o for_o impiety_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n and_o to_o hinder_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n so_o far_o as_o in_o you_o lie_v from_o punish_v sinner_n a._n s._n 6._o reason_n be_v either_o our_o brethren_n do_v assent_v to_o our_o doctrine_n and_o be_v resolve_v likewise_o to_o assent_v to_o the_o discipline_n which_o god_n willing_a shall_v be_v establish_v by_o common_a consent_n or_o do_v not_o if_o they_o grant_v the_o first_o what_o need_v they_o any_o other_o toleration_n than_o the_o rest_n if_o the_o second_o it_o will_v be_v first_o discuss_v wherein_o they_o be_v resolve_v to_o dissent_v and_o afterward_o consider_v whether_o it_o be_v of_o so_o great_a importance_n that_o in_o consideration_n thereof_o they_o dare_v not_o in_o good_a conscience_n entertain_v communion_n with_o we_o m._n s._n answer_v 1_o scarce_o see_v we_o any_o face_n of_o reason_n in_o it_o a._n s._n 1._o and_o yet_o if_o you_o have_v any_o skill_n in_o logic_n you_o may_v see_v a_o disjunctive_a syllogism_n here_o 2._o m._n s._n here_o falsify_v my_o reason_n for_o instead_o of_o these_o word_n the_o discipline_n which_o shall_v etc._n etc._n he_o put_v in_o your_o discipline_n viz._n presbyterial_a authority_n which_o be_v not_o i_o but_o his_o own_o word_n 3._o have_v so_o falsify_v my_o word_n he_o distinguish_v his_o own_o fancy_n or_o word_n
non-communion_n or_o schism_n so_o your_o supposition_n be_v false_a viz._n that_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o such_o a_o refusal_n of_o communion_n consist_v only_o in_o difference_n of_o judgement_n for_o i_o suppose_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o it_o may_v be_v a_o breach_n of_o charity_n and_o in_o particular_a person_n a_o vicious_a life_n 2._o m._n s._n shall_v have_v do_v well_o to_o declare_v we_o here_o in_o particular_a what_o be_v the_o nature_n or_o particularity_n of_o this_o difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o for_o we_o can_v in_o practicis_fw-la dispute_n accurate_o upon_o generality_n so_o abstract_a from_o all_o particularity_n if_o it_o be_v reply_v that_o it_o be_v because_o we_o admit_v vicious_a person_n unto_o our_o communion_n i_o have_v answer_v it_o in_o my_o annotation_n whereunto_o he_o pretend_v to_o answer_v he_o shall_v have_v refute_v my_o reason_n here_o as_o also_o sundry_a other_o in_o master_n rutherford_n book_n whereby_o he_o demonstrate_v how_o ridiculous_a and_o frivolous_a this_o pretext_n be_v neither_o be_v it_o needful_a that_o i_o shall_v repeal_v they_o to_o swell_v up_o a_o book_n with_o they_o m._n s._n his_o second_o answer_n if_o there_o be_v so_o many_o and_o great_a difference_n among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o and_o yet_o paul_n not_o way_n persuade_v the_o major_a part_n among_o they_o to_o cast_v our_o cut_v off_o or_o suppress_v the_o underling_n party_n but_o exhort_v they_o to_o mutual_a communion_n why_o do_v not_o you_o the_o like_a a._n s._n we_o cast_v you_o not_o out_o nor_o off_o but_o you_o run_v away_o we_o exhort_v you_o but_o you_o will_v not_o obey_v you_o slight_a and_o contemn_v your_o mother_n that_o beget_v you_o and_o when_o the_o house_n of_o god_n be_v to_o be_v reform_v you_o will_v have_v all_o thing_n according_a to_o your_o fancy_n or_o you_o will_v be_v go_v and_o renounce_v your_o mother_n o_o what_o sort_n of_o child_n and_o domestic_n of_o the_o faith_n be_v you_o m._n s._n his_o three_o answer_n he_o deny_v the_o assumption_n viz._n that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n among_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n then_o betwixt_o the_o independent_o and_o our_o church_n a._n s._n i_o prove_v it_o for_o both_o they_o differ_v in_o article_n of_o faith_n some_o of_o they_o deny_v the_o resurrection_n the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o law_n and_o sacrament_n some_o of_o they_o join_v the_o law_n with_o the_o gospel_n and_o circumcision_n with_o baptism_n and_o in_o charity_n some_o cry_v up_o some_o apostle_n and_o pastor_n and_o reject_v of_o other_o other_o of_o the_o same_o church_n be_v of_o contrary_a mind_n and_o will_n without_o any_o separation_n in_o externall_n communion_n either_o in_o sacrament_n or_o government_n for_o any_o thing_n we_o read_v in_o scripture_n a._n s._n 11._o reason_n in_o substance_n be_v this_o that_o the_o opinion_n of_o our_o brethren_n symbolize_v much_o jump_v in_o conceit_n and_o that_o they_o sympathize_v with_o the_o donatist_n who_o separate_v themselves_o from_o other_o church_n under_o pretext_n that_o they_o be_v not_o so_o holy_a as_o their_o own_o neither_o be_v their_o discipline_n unlike_a to_o that_o of_o the_o convent_v and_o monastery_n among_o the_o papist_n which_o profess_v all_o one_o doctrine_n but_o be_v independent_a one_o upon_o another_o etc._n etc._n m._n s._n answer_n 1._o symbolisa_n theologia_n non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la a._n s._n but_o this_o argument_n be_v take_v a_o simili_fw-la and_o hold_v quia_fw-la similium_fw-la eadem_fw-la est_fw-la ratio_fw-la viz._n in_o eo_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la similia_fw-la sunt_fw-la now_o they_o be_v blame_v in_o separate_a themselves_o from_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n as_o if_o they_o be_v holy_a than_o the_o rest_n ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o independent_o to_o be_v blame_v for_o the_o same_o reason_n his_o instance_n be_v childish_a and_o fond_a for_o angel_n and_o devil_n agree_v not_o in_o that_o which_o be_v unblamable_a in_o devil_n for_o that_o agreement_n shall_v be_v a_o impeachment_n both_o to_o their_o holiness_n and_o happiness_n 2._o neither_o agree_v a._n s._n with_o nestorius_n in_o make_v way_n to_o any_o heresy_n of_o his_o own_o as_o nestorius_n wherein_o he_o be_v unblamable_a 3._o no_o more_o be_v it_o to_o the_o purpose_n that_o you_o be_v not_o like_a to_o monk_n for_o their_o paunch_n idleness_n or_o in_o their_o building_n howbeit_o some_o of_o they_o be_v as_o lean_v and_o as_o busy_a in_o their_o own_o way_n as_o any_o of_o you_o independent_o can_v be_v in_o you_o neither_o be_v it_o a_o sin_n to_o be_v fat_a only_o i_o compare_v you_o with_o they_o in_o that_o wherein_o we_o all_o blame_v they_o viz._n in_o separate_n themselves_o from_o other_o under_o pretext_n of_o great_a holiness_n to_o his_o answer_n to_o the_o three_o point_n i_o reply_v that_o i_o make_v not_o this_o comparison_n betwixt_o the_o donatist_n and_o the_o apologist_n as_o m._n s._n say_v here_o but_o betwixt_o they_o and_o all_o those_o that_o be_v of_o the_o independent_o opinion_n and_o so_o to_o his_o first_o answer_n i_o reply_v that_o however_o some_o of_o the_o apologist_n of_o who_o alone_o i_o speak_v not_o have_v not_o church_n yet_o have_v they_o the_o same_o opinion_n concern_v the_o separation_n of_o their_o church_n from_o other_o that_o profess_v the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o that_o under_o pretext_n that_o they_o be_v holy_a than_o the_o rest_n second_o m._n s._n answer_v that_o neither_o in_o substance_n nor_o truth_n do_v it_o touch_v any_o of_o they_o or_o their_o opinion_n 1._o for_o they_o do_v not_o separate_v from_o other_o church_n but_o only_o in_o such_o opinion_n and_o practice_n wherein_o they_o can_v get_v leave_n of_o their_o conscience_n to_o join_v with_o they_o a._n s._n i_o have_v prove_v that_o it_o touch_v they_o in_o truth_n and_o as_o for_o his_o proof_n the_o donatist_n do_v just_a so_o whereas_o m._n s._n say_v that_o they_o of_o the_o presbytery_n differ_v in_o opinion_n and_o practice_n one_o from_o another_o a.s._n 1_o it_o be_v true_a but_o that_o be_v in_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o very_o material_a 2._o or_o if_o they_o be_v material_a they_o be_v particular_a opinion_n of_o particular_a man_n that_o be_v not_o know_v not_o of_o whole_a church_n nor_o approve_v by_o whole_a church_n 3._o and_o howbeit_o some_o of_o they_o though_o very_o few_o differ_v in_o some_o practice_n which_o be_v not_o material_a yet_o be_v it_o not_o so_o much_o they_o that_o make_v these_o difference_n as_o that_o they_o be_v compel_v by_o other_o to_o suffer_v they_o as_o they_o have_v declare_v themselves_o in_o their_o letter_n send_v to_o the_o assembly_n 4._o that_o small_a difference_n breed_v no_o schism_n or_o sect_n among_o they_o but_o they_o entertain_v mutual_a communion_n together_o both_o in_o sacrament_n and_o government_n and_o they_o admit_v one_o another_o unto_o their_o synodall_n and_o sacramental_a communion_n so_o do_v not_o independent_a church_n among_o themselves_o nor_o with_o we_o m._n s._n 2._o argument_n for_o this_o his_o assertion_n be_v because_o a._n s._n himself_o and_o his_o party_n do_v separate_v themselves_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n because_o they_o think_v not_o that_o church_n to_o be_v so_o holy_a as_o their_o own_o a._n s._n 1._o we_o separate_v not_o ourselves_o from_o the_o romish_a church_n because_o of_o great_a or_o less_o holiness_n in_o our_o church_n or_o in_o particular_a person_n then_o in_o they_o but_o because_o we_o conceive_v that_o the_o romish_a church_n err_v in_o fundamental_n 2._o not_o only_o commit_v but_o also_o 3._o teach_v idolatry_n and_o 4._o compel_v man_n against_o their_o conscience_n to_o commit_v and_o profess_v it_o 5._o neither_o do_v we_o separate_v from_o the_o papist_n but_o they_o separate_v from_o we_o and_o do_v cast_v we_o out_o of_o their_o church_n and_o persecute_v we_o to_o death_n so_o that_o neither_o can_v we_o entertain_v communion_n with_o they_o without_o lose_v both_o body_n and_o soul_n 6._o neither_o yet_o separate_v we_o from_o any_o church_n that_o hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o 7._o neither_o believe_v we_o that_o any_o church_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n with_o we_o can_v moral_o fall_v into_o idolatry_n or_o urge_v we_o to_o be_v actor_n against_o our_o conscience_n in_o any_o idolatrous_a act_n and_o this_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n independent_o may_v have_v in_o our_o church_n 8._o we_o pray_v you_o also_o to_o declare_v unto_o we_o what_o heresy_n idolatry_n or_o great_a vice_n you_o see_v teach_v or_o approve_v of_o among_o we_o that_o shall_v compel_v you_o to_o quit_v our_o church_n as_o we_o find_v among_o the_o papist_n and_o then_o your_o argument_n
will_v have_v some_o force_n otherways_o it_o have_v none_o at_o all_o m._n s._n 3._o reason_n if_o they_o do_v not_o think_v their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a than_o the_o congregationall_a they_o be_v far_o more_o guilty_a of_o schism_n than_o their_o brethren_n i._n e._n then_o independent_o for_o than_o they_o be_v at_o liberty_n in_o point_n of_o conscience_n to_o come_v over_o and_o join_v with_o they_o whereas_o the_o other_o be_v in_o band_n and_o fetter_n of_o conscience_n and_o can_v pass_v unto_o they_o their_o brethren_n will_v come_v to_o they_o but_o can_v they_o can_v come_v over_o unto_o these_o but_o will_v not_o it_o be_v the_o will_n and_o not_o the_o act_n that_o make_v schism_n and_o separation_n a._n s._n 1._o but_o if_o they_o think_v not_o their_o presbyterial_a church_n more_o holy_a all_o your_o argument_n be_v ridiculous_a 2._o and_o i_o must_v confess_v that_o m._n s._n with_o his_o faction_n be_v very_o slight_a who_o can_v make_v very_o few_o 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by_o his_o addition_n and_o confusion_n in_o make_v it_o hypotheticall_a whereas_o it_o be_v mere_o categoricall_a if_o he_o have_v desire_v to_o put_v it_o in_o form_n he_o need_v not_o but_o to_o have_v add_v or_o express_v the_o proposition_n which_o be_v only_o suppress_v in_o this_o manner_n they_o who_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n who_o be_v one_o body_n who_o have_v one_o faith_n and_o one_o baptism_n whereby_o they_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n shall_v have_v one_o communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o but_o we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o as_o you_o call_v we_o and_o independent_o we_o have_v but_o one_o god_n one_o christ_n one_o lord_n and_o one_o spirit_n etc._n etc._n ergo_fw-la we_o all_o i._n e._n presbyterian_o and_o independent_o shall_v have_v but_o one_o spiritual_a communion_n whereby_o to_o be_v spiritual_o feed_v and_o one_o discipline_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o and_o from_o this_o he_o infer_v very_o well_o ergo_fw-la the_o independent_o be_v not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v viz._n in_o their_o schism_n separation_n or_o non-communion_n m._n s._n grant_v all_o the_o argument_n and_o afterward_o distinguish_v the_o conclusion_n which_o be_v a_o odd_a manner_n of_o answer_v of_o argument_n and_o proper_a to_o his_o sect_n but_o we_o must_v take_v of_o ill_a paymaster_n what_o we_o may_v he_o say_v then_o 1._o my_o conclusion_n do_v not_o follow_v from_o my_o premise_n a._n s._n but_o the_o argument_n be_v in_o form_n if_o it_o follow_v not_o show_v i_o what_o fault_n there_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o it_o m._n s._n 2._o jeer_v the_o term_n of_o my_o argument_n in_o call_v they_o one_o one_o and_o one_o and_o my_o multiply_a unity_n and_o so_o jeer_v the_o holy_a ghost_n himself_o from_o who_o i_o have_v borrow_v they_o eph._n 4._o rom._n 12._o 1_o cor._n 12._o and_o 8._o 1_o tim._n 2.5_o i_o may_v have_v add_v more_o unity_n as_o that_o we_o 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s._n it_o be_v more_o like_a that_o learned_a man_n of_o great_a ability_n shall_v do_v so_o than_o ignorant_o that_o have_v not_o the_o ability_n the_o devil_n be_v learneder_n than_o they_o all_o and_o yet_o sustein_v as_o absurd_a opinion_n divine_a plato_n as_o learned_a as_o they_o defend_v the_o community_n of_o wife_n of_o child_n and_o good_n zeno_n do_v maintain_v that_o there_o be_v no_o move_n at_o all_o so_o do_v sundry_a great_a philosopher_n maintain_v great_a error_n and_o great_a divine_n as_o origine_fw-la and_o sundry_a of_o the_o father_n strange_o mistake_v sundry_a thing_n ifthey_a be_v so_o learned_a i_o may_v say_v of_o they_o what_o a_o other_o say_v of_o a_o very_a learned_a man_n vbi_fw-la bene_fw-la nemo_fw-la meliùs_fw-la ubi_fw-la malè_fw-la nemo_fw-la pejùs_fw-la where_o they_o do_v well_o no_o man_n do_v better_a where_o they_o do_v ill_a no_o man_n do_v worse_a for_o optima_fw-la cum_fw-la degenerant_fw-la fiunt_fw-la pessima_fw-la as_o the_o 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religion_n to_o your_o demand_n about_o those_o that_o be_v of_o my_o judgement_n they_o need_v not_o to_o be_v suitor_n for_o a_o toleration_n for_o the_o discipline_n that_o they_o suffer_v for_o be_v already_o establish_v by_o law_n as_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o this_o section_n it_o contain_v only_o his_o proud_a judgement_n of_o my_o reason_n and_o some_o foolery_n which_o i_o hold_v it_o not_o worth_a the_o while_n to_o take_v notice_n of_o to_o your_o second_o i_o answer_v that_o those_o of_o who_o i_o say_v that_o sundry_a of_o themselves_o can_v not_o deny_v it_o etc._n etc._n be_v not_o the_o five_o apologist_n but_o other_o independent_a minister_n and_o some_o of_o the_o able_a among_o they_o who_o i_o do_v entertain_v upon_o that_o discourse_n and_o m._n s._n himself_o tell_v we_o suppose_v that_o course_n or_o mean_n which_o the_o apologist_n insist_v upon_o be_v not_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o reason_n or_o humane_a conjecture_n a_o mean_a sufficient_a for_o such_o a_o purpose_n yet_o if_o it_o be_v a_o mean_n which_o god_n have_v authorize_v for_o the_o effect_n it_o will_v do_v the_o deed_n here_o he_o mistrust_v the_o reason_n and_o appeal_v to_o god_n word_n whereof_o we_o see_v nothing_o here_o 3._o m._n s._n say_v that_o they_o have_v show_v it_o from_o god_n word_n but_o god_n and_o man_n it_o seem_v be_v not_o yet_o agree_v to_o have_v it_o so_o general_o see_v as_o be_v to_o be_v desire_v a._n s._n neither_o be_v it_o show_v neither_o can_v it_o appear_v nam_fw-la non_fw-la entis_fw-la nulla_fw-la sunt_fw-la accidentia_fw-la thing_n that_o be_v not_o have_v no_o accident_n neither_o can_v they_o be_v see_v and_o what_o man_n can_v agree_v unto_o i_o know_v not_o for_o some_o time_n they_o dream_v that_o they_o see_v thing_n that_o be_v not_o but_o sure_o i_o be_o that_o god_n will_v never_o agree_v that_o it_o be_v according_a to_o his_o word_n and_o what_o you_o say_v of_o your_o hope_n all_o the_o king_n of_o the_o world_n can_v hinder_v you_o to_o hope_n for_o no_o man_n be_v without_o all_o hope_n but_o the_o damn_a soul_n in_o hell_n only_o this_o i_o say_v that_o of_o your_o hope_n you_o may_v say_v o_o spes_fw-la inane_n m._n s._n to_o that_o where_o i_o say_v the_o refusal_n of_o a_o toleration_n will_v help_v to_o confirm_v the_o church_n and_o the_o people_n in_o the_o truth_n he_o answer_v that_o he_o know_v not_o in_o what_o truth_n therefore_o i_o tell_v he_o that_o i_o mean_v the_o truth_n of_o our_o discipline_n and_o the_o truth_n how_o intolerable_a be_v a_o toleration_n of_o sect_n and_o of_o so_o dangerous_a a_o sect_n and_o the_o reason_n be_v because_o that_o if_o ever_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n or_o the_o people_n see_v so_o venerable_a and_o learned_a a_o assembly_n condescend_v to_o such_o a_o absurd_a opinion_n and_o demand_v they_o will_v not_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v so_o absurd_a as_o it_o be_v for_o many_o man_n be_v lead_v by_o authority_n and_o take_v many_o thing_n upon_o the_o trust_n of_o great_a man_n or_o when_o they_o see_v such_o a_o assembly_n condescend_v unto_o such_o error_n they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o diligent_a to_o inquire_v for_o the_o truth_n as_o otherways_o they_o may_v be_v a._n s._n 21._o argument_n neither_o can_v it_o viz._n toleration_n but_o overthrow_v all_o sort_n of_o ecclesiastical_a government_n for_o a_o man_n be_v censure_v in_o one_o church_n may_v fly_v to_o a_o other_o and_o be_v again_o suspend_v in_o that_o other_o fly_v from_o thence_o to_o another_o and_o so_o scorn_v all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o their_o censure_n and_o so_o this_o order_n by_o necessary_a consequence_n will_v breed_v all_o sort_n of_o disorder_n m._n s._n answer_v 1._o that_o he_o joy_v that_o i_o prophesy_v that_o the_o independent_a government_n
not_o for_o we_o to_o distinguish_v or_o restrain_v it_o he_o be_v the_o minister_n of_o god_n for_o good_a verse_n 4._o ergo_fw-la for_o this_o good_a viz._n to_o have_v a_o care_n of_o religion_n and_o to_o punish_v such_o as_o trouble_v it_o by_o their_o schism_n and_o heresy_n and_o therefore_o 6._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o posito_fw-la uno_fw-la medio_fw-la non_fw-la negantur_fw-la reliqua_fw-la it_o follow_v not_o that_o if_o god_n serve_v himself_o of_o some_o mean_n in_o the_o church_n ergo_fw-la he_o serve_v himself_o of_o any_o other_o mean_n viz._n of_o civil_a authority_n about_o the_o church_n and_o out_o of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v as_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v the_o internal_a cause_n as_o materia_fw-la &_o forma_fw-la be_v necessary_a to_o the_o generation_n of_o a_o man_n ergo_fw-la the_o externall_n as_o the_o efficient_a and_o final_a viz._n god_n and_o man_n be_v not_o necessary_a m._n s._n 2._o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n must_v perform_v their_o office_n with_o meekness_n 2_o tim._n 2.24_o ergo_fw-la they_o must_v not_o threaten_v man_n with_o deliver_v they_o over_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o antecedent_n they_o must_v perform_v their_o duty_n not_o only_o with_o meekness_n but_o also_o with_o severity_n when_o necessity_n require_v it_o as_o we_o see_v in_o saint_n paul_n 2._o the_o text_n 2_o tim._n 2.24_o speak_v only_o of_o meekness_n in_o teach_v in_o meekness_n say_v the_o apostle_n instruct_v those_o that_o oppose_v themselves_o if_o peradventure_o god_n will_v give_v they_o repentance_n 3._o it_o only_o say_v that_o they_o must_v use_v meekness_n when_o man_n be_v docilo_o when_o there_o be_v any_o hope_n of_o repentance_n and_o not_o with_o pertinacious_a heretic_n and_o schismatic_n of_o who_o we_o can_v expect_v repentance_n 4._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n when_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n threaten_v they_o to_o deliver_v they_o over_o unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n they_o may_v do_v that_o also_o with_o meekness_n neither_o be_v such_o a_o proceed_v contrary_a to_o meekness_n for_o the_o meek_a man_n of_o the_o world_n may_v accuse_v his_o party_n before_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o yet_o not_o be_v think_v inhuman_a or_o cruel_a 5._o thus_o all_o be_v beat_v down_o all_o that_o he_o build_v upon_o this_o ruinous_a foundation_n must_v needs_o fall_v to_o ground_n m._n s._n his_o three_o reason_n that_o which_o be_v a_o special_a gift_n of_o god_n and_o whereof_o no_o man_n be_v capable_a by_o his_o own_o industry_n the_o want_n of_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o a_o judgement_n of_o god_n and_o withal_o no_o way_n prejudicial_a or_o hurtful_a unto_o other_o shall_v not_o expose_v he_o to_o further_a punishment_n and_o misery_n but_o repentance_n to_o the_o acknowledgement_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v a_o special_a gift_n of_o god_n and_o the_o want_n thereof_o a_o judgement_n of_o god_n etc._n etc._n ergo._n a._n s._n 1._o i_o deny_v the_o first_o proposition_n for_o if_o he_o be_v bind_v to_o have_v it_o and_o have_v the_o faculty_n and_o sufficient_a mean_n to_o have_v have_v it_o and_o to_o keep_v it_o after_o that_o he_o have_v it_o or_o may_v have_v it_o and_o if_o by_o his_o own_o fault_n he_o want_v it_o he_o can_v excuse_v himself_o neither_o from_o the_o obligation_n to_o have_v nor_o from_o the_o punishment_n due_a to_o he_o for_o the_o want_n of_o it_o as_o our_o divine_n teach_v against_o the_o arminian_o 2._o i_o deny_v the_o assumption_n for_o it_o be_v prejudicial_a to_o other_o by_o the_o ill_a example_n he_o give_v and_o by_o the_o malice_n proceed_v from_o thence_o that_o induce_v other_o to_o the_o same_o sin_n to_o false_a doctrine_n schism_n and_o heresy_n 3._o this_o argument_n prove_v not_o m._n s._n his_o thesis_n viz._n that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v not_o punish_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n or_o that_o they_o shall_v be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o state_n and_o therefore_o 4._o we_o may_v grant_v he_o all_o the_o argument_n neither_o do_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n punish_v any_o man_n for_o want_n of_o repentance_n or_o for_o his_o ignorance_n which_o be_v in_o the_o mind_n and_o will_n and_o consequent_o unknown_a to_o he_o but_o for_o the_o pertinacious_a externall_n profession_n of_o they_o in_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o trouble_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o state_n neither_o refuse_v he_o to_o tolerate_v ignorance_n or_o want_v of_o repentance_n yea_o if_o there_o be_v nothing_o worse_o in_o they_o both_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o the_o minister_n of_o christ_n must_v pity_v they_o and_o travel_v for_o their_o instruction_n and_o amendment_n this_o be_v far_o from_o prove_v either_o a_o toleration_n of_o the_o public_a exercise_n of_o heretical_a doctrine_n or_o of_o schism_n or_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n have_v not_o power_n to_o punish_v they_o m._n s._n his_o four_o reason_n be_v put_v in_o form_n will_v be_v thus_o that_o which_o make_v man_n worse_o and_o hypocrite_n to_o profess_v outward_o what_o they_o believe_v not_o in_o their_o conscience_n be_v not_o lawful_a but_o externall_n compulsion_n of_o heretic_n schismatic_n etc._n etc._n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n make_v by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v such_o ergo_fw-la it_o be_v unlawful_a and_o consequent_o not_o to_o be_v tolerate_v a._n s._n i_o answer_v to_o the_o first_o proposition_n if_o it_o make_v man_n worse_o per_fw-la accidens_fw-la not_o of_o itself_o but_o in_o virtue_n of_o some_o accident_n annex_v to_o the_o person_n that_o become_v worse_a it_o be_v false_a if_o it_o do_v it_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi by_o its_o own_o virtue_n and_o efficacy_n it_o be_v true_a but_o then_o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n in_o punish_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n etc._n etc._n make_v they_o not_o worse_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi for_o neither_o be_v it_o finis_fw-la operantis_fw-la or_o operationis_fw-la since_o neither_o he_o intend_v to_o make_v they_o worse_o but_o better_a nor_o tend_v his_o operation_n i._n e._n his_o judgement_n and_o command_n to_o make_v they_o at_o all_o ill_a much_o less_o to_o make_v they_o worse_o since_o the_o effect_n of_o it_o per_fw-la se_fw-la be_v only_o to_o imprison_v their_o body_n to_o fine_v they_o or_o if_o they_o merit_v it_o to_o exile_v they_o or_o take_v their_o life_n which_o produce_v no_o moral_a ill_n but_o a_o great_a good_a viz._n a_o hindrance_n of_o they_o to_o vent_v abroad_o their_o heresy_n and_o schism_n so_o it_o make_v they_o not_o hypocrite_n per_fw-mi se_fw-mi but_o only_o they_o per_fw-mi se_fw-mi make_v themselves_o hypocrite_n they_o be_v bind_v to_o suffer_v themselves_o to_o be_v teach_v the_o truth_n so_o to_o believe_v it_o and_o so_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v hypocrite_n m._n s._n repli_v that_o he_o stand_v already_o engage_v in_o a_o great_a band_n hereunto_o viz._n his_o peace_n with_o god_n and_o the_o safety_n of_o his_o soul_n then_o suffer_v temporal_o from_o the_o civil_a power_n a._n s._n your_o erroneous_a conscience_n can_v breed_v no_o true_a and_o real_a obligation_n or_o engagement_n against_o god_n 1._o for_o you_o be_v bind_v and_o oblige_v to_o god_n to_o cast_v away_o your_o ignorance_n and_o ill_a conscience_n 2._o what_o if_o your_o erroneous_a conscience_n dictate_v you_o that_o you_o must_v kill_v the_o king_n as_o that_o of_o ravalliack_n do_v to_o he_o in_o france_n to_o kill_v henry_n the_o four_o and_o that_o of_o the_o jesuit_n and_o priest_n in_o england_n do_v they_o to_o blow_v up_o the_o parliament_n and_o many_o papist_n of_o their_o own_o religion_n must_v you_o i_o pray_v obey_v the_o dictate_v of_o such_o a_o conscience_n 3._o away_o with_o such_o wicked_a conscience_n and_o to_o the_o law_n and_o prophet_n if_o you_o be_v a_o protestant_n 4._o either_o that_o band_n be_v lay_v upon_o you_o by_o god_n or_o the_o devil_n but_o it_o can_v be_v lay_v upon_o you_o by_o god_n for_o he_o can_v lay_v a_o band_n upon_o you_o to_o serve_v the_o devil_n or_o to_o despite_n himself_o for_o so_o he_o shall_v be_v the_o author_n of_o sin_n nor_o by_o the_o devil_n for_o then_o the_o band_n lay_v upon_o you_o to_o serve_v he_o shall_v be_v great_a than_o that_o which_o god_n have_v lay_v upon_o you_o in_o his_o word_n to_o serve_v he_o it_o may_v be_v say_v that_o so_o long_o as_o my_o erroneous_a conscience_n last_v i_o must_v obey_v it_o a._n s._n i_o answer_v you_o must_v obey_v it_o as_o he_o who_o be_v captive_a under_o sin_n must_v obey_v sin_n be_v a_o slave_n unto_o sin_n that_o have_v voluntary_o render_v he_o such_o but_o he_o unjust_o render_v himself_o a_o slave_n to_o sin_n and_o unjust_o in_o virtue_n thereof_o remain_v a_o sinner_n and_o obey_v it_o some_o will_v answer_v 7._o
heretical_a and_o go_v to_o the_o devil_n but_o i_o answer_v 1._o the_o assumption_n be_v false_a for_o the_o externall_n coactive_a power_n that_o a._n s._n grant_v unto_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n be_v only_o to_o repress_v heretic_n and_o schismatic_n after_o that_o they_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v by_o the_o church_n in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n or_o by_o other_o in_o a_o extraordinary_a way_n when_o the_o church_n be_v negligent_a in_o her_o duty_n 2._o neither_o do_v m._n s._n his_o confirmation_n or_o case_n of_o conscience_n conclude_v any_o thing_n against_o that_o which_o a._n s._n say_v and_o as_o for_o his_o supposition_n either_o that_o conscience_n whereof_o he_o speak_v be_v right_a or_o erroneous_a if_o it_o be_v right_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v not_o press_v it_o against_o its_o light_n or_o if_o he_o happen_v to_o do_v so_o it_o be_v not_o by_o power_n but_o by_o abuse_n of_o power_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n he_o who_o have_v his_o conscience_n well_o inform_v must_v resolve_v himself_o to_o be_v quiet_a in_o case_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n oblige_v he_o not_o to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o it_o but_o if_o such_o a_o man_n any_o other_o or_o other_o with_o he_o will_v rise_v up_o within_o the_o kingdom_n or_o come_v from_o foreign_a country_n and_o urge_v their_o religion_n upon_o the_o state_n and_o establish_v it_o without_o permission_n of_o the_o magistrate_n or_o against_o his_o law_n than_o their_o conscience_n can_v be_v right_o for_o wherefore_o shall_v the_o king_n parliament_z and_o state_n be_v rather_o bind_v to_o admit_v such_o man_n religion_n without_o sufficient_a conviction_n than_o they_o to_o admit_v his_o religion_n and_o in_o such_o a_o case_n the_o civil_a magistrate_n so_o long_o as_o such_o person_n as_o urge_v their_o religion_n upon_o he_o convict_v not_o sufficient_o his_o conscience_n may_v with_o a_o good_a conscience_n punish_v they_o severe_o yea_o with_o good_a conscience_n cut_v off_o their_o head_n if_o such_o a_o man_n conscience_n be_v erroneous_a the_o civil_a magistrate_n do_v he_o no_o wrong_n to_o endeavour_v that_o he_o who_o have_v it_o be_v sufficient_o convict_v and_o if_o after_o sufficient_a conviction_n he_o will_v not_o be_v quiet_a especial_o when_o he_o be_v not_o oblige_v to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o his_o pretend_a conscience_n but_o will_v still_o trouble_v both_o church_n and_o state_n wherefore_o on_o god_n name_n shall_v he_o not_o be_v punish_v 2._o be_v it_o not_o better_o that_o such_o a_o man_n shall_v perish_v then_o that_o he_o shall_v make_v thousand_o to_o perish_v 3._o ravalliack_n in_o france_n and_o the_o monk_n and_o friar_n that_o kill_v king_n pretend_v evermore_o conscience_n as_o the_o independent_o do_v and_o yet_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n put_v they_o to_o death_n 4._o if_o any_o man_n conscience_n which_o god_n forbid_v shall_v dictate_v he_o to_o kill_v the_o king_n and_o blow_v up_o the_o parliament_n shall_v such_o a_o man_n be_v tolerate_v under_o pretext_n of_o his_o tender_a conscience_n 5._o be_v it_o not_o a_o sin_n to_o have_v a_o erroneous_a conscience_n and_o be_v not_o he_o that_o have_v it_o bind_v to_o reform_v it_o and_o to_o suffer_v for_o it_o in_o case_n he_o reform_v it_o not_o when_o he_o have_v sufficient_a mean_n to_o do_v it_o 6._o but_o must_v every_o man_n that_o do_v ill_a be_v present_o believe_v when_o he_o say_v that_o he_o have_v such_o a_o conscience_n 7._o all_o this_o long_a sermon_n of_o m._n s._n prove_v not_o that_o the_o magistrate_n direct_o and_o per_fw-la se_fw-la but_o rather_o that_o the_o man_n himself_o harden_v his_o own_o conscience_n for_o there_o be_v no_o create_a power_n that_o direct_o per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o physical_o can_v work_v upon_o a_o man_n conscience_n it_o can_v only_o move_v it_o moral_o in_o propound_v of_o object_n to_o it_o or_o in_o reason_v and_o yet_o every_o true_a christian_a have_v a_o sufficient_a power_n to_o resist_v such_o motion_n which_o be_v sufficient_a to_o make_v he_o in-excusable_a 8._o neither_o can_v his_o erroneous_a conscience_n excuse_v he_o unless_o that_o its_o error_n be_v invincible_a antecedent_n and_o he_o no_o way_n the_o cause_n of_o it_o but_o if_o it_o be_v vincible_a concomitant_a or_o subsequent_a and_o he_o himself_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o than_o it_o excuse_v he_o not_o but_o be_v a_o sin_n and_o aggravate_v the_o sin_n that_o proceed_v of_o it_o at_o least_o extensiuè_a if_o not_o intensiuè_v for_o in_o such_o a_o case_n it_o be_v not_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n that_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o sinful_a action_n of_o his_o will_n but_o his_o sinful_a will_n that_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n 9_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n threaten_v per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o direct_o make_v not_o his_o conscience_n erroneous_a but_o find_v it_o such_o 10._o neither_o be_v it_o the_o cause_n that_o he_o go_v against_o it_o for_o whether_o you_o consider_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n intention_n his_o judgement_n or_o the_o execution_n of_o it_o in_o such_o a_o case_n they_o cause_v no_o ill_a but_o good_a for_o his_o intention_n be_v only_o that_o they_o be_v gain_v to_o christ_n and_o that_o they_o seduce_v not_o other_o his_o judgement_n condemn_v only_o their_o opinion_n and_o command_v a_o punishment_n answerable_a to_o their_o sin_n whereby_o only_o they_o be_v hinder_v to_o continue_v in_o their_o heresy_n or_o schism_n or_o to_o seduce_v other_o no_o more_o do_v the_o execution_n of_o his_o judgement_n ergo._n 11._o and_o i_o pray_v this_o new_a casuist_n to_o tell_v i_o whether_o in_o some_o case_n it_o be_v not_o a_o lesser_a sin_n for_o a_o man_n to_o go_v against_o his_o erroneous_a conscience_n then_o to_o follow_v its_o dictate_v whether_o it_o be_v not_o better_o for_o he_o to_o sit_v at_o home_n against_o the_o dictate_v of_o his_o conscience_n then_o to_o go_v to_o a_o pagan_a church_n and_o there_o to_o adore_v a_o crocodile_n or_o a_o toad_n according_a to_o the_o dictate_v of_o it_o so_o we_o see_v how_o licentious_a and_o detestable_a this_o conscience_n be_v that_o independent_o plead_v so_o much_o for_o that_o think_v that_o it_o can_v sufficient_o enjoy_v its_o liberty_n unless_o that_o all_o schismatic_n heretic_n jew_n mahometans_n and_o idolater_n have_v a_o free_a liberty_n of_o their_o erroneous_a conscience_n to_o adore_v a_o thousand_o god_n yea_o a_o thousand_o devil_n a_o jupiter_n a_o bacchus_n a_o venus_n a_o blind_a fortuna_fw-la and_o to_o preach_v such_o abomination_n and_o that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n be_v ever_o curtale_v or_o rather_o altogether_o take_v away_o in_o matter_n in_o religion_n i_o will_v not_o call_v this_o a_o madness_n but_o i_o be_o well_o assure_v that_o many_o be_v recommend_v to_o the_o church_n prayer_n that_o be_v not_o half_a so_o sick_a either_o in_o soul_n or_o body_n as_o these_o man_n be_v in_o their_o conscience_n wherefore_o all_o that_o i_o have_v more_o to_o say_v unto_o they_o shall_v be_v only_o this_o the_o lord_n have_v mercy_n upon_o they_o christian_n reader_n have_v be_v desire_v by_o some_o friend_n to_o give_v a_o short_a discourse_n of_o the_o independent_a government_n i_o be_o resolve_v to_o present_v thou_o with_o this_o follow_a epitome_n which_o sundry_a have_v oftentimes_o require_v of_o i_o the_o independent_a church_n be_v so_o call_v because_o that_o no_o particular_a congregation_n among_o they_o how_o small_a how_o heretical_a and_o vicious_a soever_o it_o be_v will_v depend_v upon_o or_o submit_v to_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o other_o church_n yea_o not_o to_o that_o of_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o world_n how_o orthodox_n and_o holy_a and_o how_o true_a and_o just_a soever_o their_o judgement_n be_v they_o define_v it_o coetus_fw-la fidelium_fw-la a_o company_n of_o believer_n meet_v in_o one_o place_n every_o lord_n day_n for_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o holy_a ordinance_n of_o god_n to_o public_a edification_n so_o according_a to_o this_o definition_n neither_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o we_o believe_v in_o the_o creed_n nor_o any_o nationall_n church_n can_v be_v a_o true_a church_n since_o they_o can_v meet_v together_o every_o lord_n day_n in_o one_o place_n in_o the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o the_o church_n i_o see_v no_o great_a difference_n betwixt_o we_o and_o they_o save_v only_o this_o that_o they_o hold_v it_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n and_o of_o every_o member_n thereof_o that_o they_o all_o join_v in_o a_o particular_a church-covenant_n as_o they_o call_v it_o different_a from_o that_o of_o grace_n reveal_v in_o scripture_n wherein_o they_o all_o swear_v to_o live_v in_o the_o faith_n and_o in_o subjection_n to_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n cleave_v one_o to_o another_o as_o member_n