Selected quad for the lemma: conscience_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
conscience_n	law_n	obedience_n	obligation_n	1,036	5	9.4199	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69535	The grand debate between the most reverend bishops and the Presbyterian divines appointed by His Sacred Majesty as commissioners for the review and alteration of the Book of common prayer, &c. : being an exact account of their whole proceedings : the most perfect copy.	Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691.; Commission for the Review and Alteration of the Book of Common Prayer.	1661 (1661)	Wing B1278A; Wing E3841; ESTC R7198	132,164	165

Subject that can exempt him from the duty of obeying But it may ensnare him in a certainty of sinning whether he obey or disobey For as God commandeth him to obey and also not to do that which man commandeth when God forbiddeth it So he obligeth the erronious first to lay down his errours and so to obey But if a thing he forbidden of God and commanded of man and one man erroniously thinke it lawful and that he should obey and another is in doubt between both it is neither a duty nor lawful for either of them here to obey For mans errour changeth nor Gods Laws nor disobligeth himself from obedience But this mans duty is both to lay by that errour and to refuse obedience but if the question be only of the order of such a persons duty we answer If the thing be really lawful and obedience a duty then he that doubteth or erreth should if possible suddenly lay by his errours or doubt and so obey But if that cannot be he should first go about the fittest means for his better information till he be resolved and so obey And so on the contrary if really the thing commanded be unlawful if he be sure of it he must resolve against it if he hesitate he is not therefore allowed to do a thing forbidden because he is ignorant For his ignorance is suposed culpable it self but he is first to consult and use the best means for his Instruction till he know the truth and in the mean time to suspend his Act. But yet because of humane frailty between several faults we must consider when we cannot avoid all as we would in what order most safely to watch and to avoid them And so when I have done my best and cannot discern whether a Command be just and the thing lawful or not If it have the face of Idolatry Blasphemy or some hainous Sin that is commanded and our dis-obedience have the appearance but of an effect of involuntary ignorance it is more excusable in us to fear the greater Sin and so to suspend till we are better satisfied than to do that which we suspect to be so hainous a Sin though in leed it prove no sin So on the contrary if our disobedience be like to bring Infamy or Calamity on the Church and our Obedience appear to be but about a very small sin if we doubt of it it is more excusable to obey than to disobey though both be faulty supposing the thing to be indeed unlawful and we discern it not So that your Rule of obeying where you are not as sure c Is an unsure Rule unless as we have fullyer cautioned it Pretence of Conscience is no exemption from obedience for the Law as long as it is a Law certainly binds to obedience Rom. 13. Ye must needs be subject and this pretence of a tender gainsaying Conscience cannot abrogate the Law since it can neither take away the Authority of the Law-maker nor make the matter of the Law in it self unlawful Besides if pretence of Conscience did exempt from obedience Laws were uselesse whosoever had not list to obey might pretend tenderness of Conscience and be thereby set at liberty which if once granted Anarchy and Confusion must needs follow Repl Neither pretence of Conscience nor real Errour of Conscience exempteth from the Obligation to obey though sometime it may so ensnare as that obeying shall become of the two the greater sin so also real Errours or pretence of Conscience will justifie no man for obeying when it is by God forbidden Though Charity will move to pity and relieve those that are truly perplexed or Scrupulous yet we must not break Gods Command in Charity to them and therefore we must not perform publick Services undecently or disorderly for the ease of tender Consciences Repl. O that you would but do all that God alloweth you yea that he hath commanded you for these ends how happy would you make your selves and these poor afflicted Churches But as to the instance of your Rule we answer 1. When the indecency and disorder is so small as that it will not crosse the ends so much as our disobedience would we are here so far more conformable and peaceable than you as that we would even in Gods worship do some things indecent and disorderly rather than disobey And so should you do rather than destroy your Brethren or hinder that peace and healing of the Church For Order is for the thing ordered and not contrarily For example there is much disorder lies in the Common-Prayer Book yet we would obey in it as far as the ends of our calling do require It would be undecent to come without a Band or other handsome raiment into the Assembly yet rather than nor worship God at all we would obey if that were commanded us we are as confident that Surplices and Copes are undecent and kneeling at the Lords Table is disorderly as you are of the contrary And yet if the Magistrate would be advised by us supposing himself addicted against you we would advise him to be more charitable to you than you here advise him to be to us We would have him if your Conscience require it to forbear you in this undecent and disorderly way But to speak more distinctly 1. There are some things decent and orderly when the opposite species is not undecent or disorderly 2. There are some things undecent and disorderly in a small and tolerable degree And some things in a degree intolerable 1. When things decent are commanded whose opposites would not be at all undecent there Charity and Peace and Edification may command a Relaxation or rather should at first restrain from too severe Impositions As it is decent to wear either a Cloak or a Gown a Cassock buttoned or unbutton'd with a Girdle or without to sit stand or kneel in singing of a Psalm to sit or stand in hearing the word read or preached c. 2. When a Circumstance is undecent or disorderly but in a tollerable degree to an Inconvenience Obedience or Charity or Edification may command us to do it and make it not only lawful but a duty pro hic nunc while the preponderating Accident prevaileth Christs instances go at least as far as this about the Priests in the Temple breaking the Sabbath blamelesly and Davids eating the Shew bread which was lawful for none to eate ordinarily but the Priests And the Disciples rubbing the ears of Corn I will have mercy not sacrifice is a Leston that he sets us to learn when two duties come together to prefer the greater if we would escape sin And sure to keep an able Preacher in the Church or a private Christian in Communion is a greater duty caeteris paribus than to use a Ceremony which we conceive to be decent It is more orderly to use the better translation of the Scripture than the worse as the Common-Prayer-book doth and yet we would

in this Church and Nation occasioning sad divisions betwixt Minister Minister betwixt Minister and People exposing many Orthodox Preachers to the displeasure of Rulers And no other fruits than these can be looked for from the retaining these Ceremonies Repl. We had rather you had taken our Reasons as we laid them down than to have so altered them Ergo having told you that some hold them unlawful and others inconvenient c. and desired that they may not be imposed on such who judge such Impositions a violation of the Royalty of Christ c. You seem to take this as our own sense and that of all the Ceremonies of which we there made no mention You referre us to Hooker since whose writings Ames in his fresh suit and Bradshaw and Parker and many others have written that against the Ceremonies that never was answered that we know of but deserve your Consideration Before we give particular Answer to these several Reasons it will not be unnecessary to lay down some certain general premises or rules which will be useful in our whole discourse 1. That God hath not given a power only but a command also of imposing whatsoever should be truly decent and becomming his publick Service 1 Cor. 14. After St Paul had ordered some particular Rules for Praying Praising Prophesying c. He concludes with this general Canon Let all things be done 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in a fit Scheme Habit or Fashion decently and that there may be uniformity in those decent performances let there be a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rule or Canon for that purpose Repl. As to your first rule we answer 1. It is one thing to impose in general that all be done decently and in order This God himself hath imposed by his Apostle And it s another thing to impose in particular that this or that be used as decent and orderly Concerning this we adde it is in the Text said Let it be done but not let it be imposed yet from other Scriptures we doubt not but Circumstances of meer decency order as determined time place utensils c. which are common to things civil and sacred though not the Symbolical Ceremonies which afterwards we confute may be imposed with the necessary cautions and limitations afterward laid down But 1. that if any Usurpers will pretend a power from Christ to impose such things on the Church though the things be lawful we must take heed how we acknowledge an usurped power by formal obedience 2. A just power may impose them but to just ends as the preservation and successe of the modified Worship or Ordinances And if they really conduce not to those ends they sin in imposing them 3. Yet the Subjects are bound to obey a true Authority in such impositions where the matter belongs to the Cognizance and Office of the Ruler and where the mistake is not so great as to bring greater mischiefs to the Church than the suspending of our active obedience would do 4. But if these things be determined under pretence of order and decency to the plain destruction of the ordinances modified and of the intended end they cease to be means and we must not use them 5. Or if under the names of things decent and of order men will meddle with things that belong not to their Office as to institute a new Worship for God new Sacraments or any thing forbidden in the general Prohibition of adding or diminishing this is a Usurpation and not an act of Authority and we are bound in obedience to God to disobey them 6. Where Governours may command at set times and by proportionable penalties enforce if they command when it will destroy the end or enforce by such penalties as destroy or crosse it they greatly sin by such commands Thus we have more distinctly given you our sense about the matter of your first rule Not Inferiours but Superiours must iudge what is convenient and decent They who must order that all be done decently must of necessity first judge what is convenient and decent to be ordered Repl. Your second Rule also is too crudely delivered and therefore we must adde 1. A Judgement is a Sentence in order to some Execution and Judgements are specified from the ends to which they are such means When the question is either what Law shall be made or what penalty shall be exercised the Magistrate is the only Judge and not the Bishop or other Subject In the first he exercises his judicium discretionis in order to a publick Act. In the second he exerciseth a publick judgement When the question is what order pro tempore is fittest in Circumstantials for this present Congregation the proper Presbyters or Pastors of that Congregation are the directive Judges by Gods appointment 3. The Magistrate is Ruler of these Pastors as he is of Physicians Pailosophers and other Subjects He may make them such general Rules especially for restraint to go by as may not destroy the exercise of their own Pastoral power As he may forbid a Physician to use some dangerous Medicine on his Subjects and may punish him when he wilfully killeth any of them But may not on that presence appoint him what and how and when and to whom he shall administer and so become Phisician himself alone 4. When the question is who shall be excluded from the Communion of a particular Church The Pastors of the Church or Congregation are the first proper Judges 5. When the question is who shall be excluded from or received into the Communion of all the associated Churches of which we are naturally capable of Communion The associated Pastors or Bishops of these Churches in Synods are Judg●● Beyond this there are no Judges 6. When the question is whether the Laws of Magistrates or Canons of Bishops are agreeable or not to the Word of God and so the obedience is lawful or unlawful the Conscience of each individual Subject is the Judge per judicium discretionis as to his own practise And if men had not this judgement of discerning but must act upon absolute implicite obedience then first man were ruled as unreasonable Secondly the magistrate were made a God or such a Leviathan as Hobbs describeth him Thirdly And then all sin might lawfully be committed if commanded But we are assured none of this your sense These Rules and Canons for decency made and urged by Superiours are to be obeyed by Inferiours till it be made as clear that now they are not bound to obey as it is evident in general that they ought to obey Superiours for if the exemption from obedience be not as evident as the Command to obey it must needs be sin not to obey Repl. To your third Rule we adde It is first considerable what the thing is and then how it is apprehended if it be really lawful and well commanded and to be obeyed it is no ignorance doubt or errour of the