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A62452 A discourse of the forbearance or the penalties which a due reformation requires by H. Thorndike ... Thorndike, Herbert, 1598-1672. 1670 (1670) Wing T1044; ESTC R1719 71,571 188

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the Law It seems they were only forbidden by the Law to go to the feasts which they the Gentiles made of their Sacrifices lest they should worship their Gods as they that invited them did Exod. XXXIII 15. and as they did with the Madianites Numb XXV 2. The forbearing of Idolaters meat was a hedge to the Law that they might be the further off from transgressing it But brought in under the Prophets and observed by the more Religious And the Jews have reason when they tell us that Nehemiah was dispensed with for drinking the wine of the Gentiles because he was Cup-bearer to the King Whereby it appears that S. Paul leaves it to the Charity of every Christian to use his freedom so sparingly as not to offend a weak Christian But under the Law it became a Rule that all the strong should forbear that which might possibly offend the weak And therefore when the Apostles at Jerusalem injoyn those that were converted of Gentiles to abstain from meats sacrificed to Idols they do forbid them to eat such meats even materially And command them to make inquiry for conscience sake as the Jews used to do and as converted Gentiles did in the Land of Promise For the Ordinance of Acts XV. 23. addresseth only to the Churches of Judaea and to those which Paul and Barnabas being sent from Antiochia had founded in Cilicia and the parts adjacent Acts XIII 2 3 14 XIV 26. XV. XIV 4. The reason of this difference is manifest by the words of S. Paul 1 Cor. XII 2. Ye know ye were Gentiles carried after these dumb Idols as ye were led Whereas Paul and Barnabas addressed first to the Jews and founded Churches of them for the greatest part So that the hopes of winning the Jews remaining the dispensation was to take place But the Church of Rome consisted of Gentiles as well as of Jews whereas in the Church of Corinth there is no account at all had of the Jews And therefore the forbearance required at Corinth is out of fear of Idolatry at Rome of Apostasie CHAP. XII The present Case of this time stated HAving thus stated the Case in which S. Paul ordereth this forbearance let us state our Case in which it is demanded by consequence But that cannot be done but out of the premises We must suppose the Church of England a member of the whole Church desires to Reform it self because the rest of the Church will not joyn in the same work But desires to continue a member of the whole Church and not to give any cause of interrupting Unity by improving Christianity I know some of them that demand Toleration do not allow any such thing as a Church of England when they are understood For how should they owne any Right of Soveraign Powers to give Law to the Church of their Dominions that allow them no Right to punish the transgression of such Laws But the Case must be stated upon the Terms proposed nevertheless as to those that acknowledge National Churches Excepting for those that make this Plea when we see time This only I think would be said that the Church of England is not now to be Reformed but having been Reformed is now questioned as if the Reformation of it were not yet perfect And therefore the boldness is taken by a private person of my condition to give an Opinion what is most wanting in the Reformation of it Because it cannot be said what is unduely demanded until it may be said what is due to be done But it must be remembred that the demand is made in behalf of those that had made a Schism in the Church of England by Ordaining or being Ordained Presbyters by Presbyters without and against the will of their Bishops In behalf of those it hath been demanded that their Ordinations may stand valid and good and the persons inabled by the Law of the Land to minister the Offices of their Orders and to be trusted with the Cure of Souls by their Bishops And not only so but it hath been further demanded that some of those Laws by which Religion is setled in the Kingdom be repealed for their sakes That they may have no pretense to scruple the Office of the Ministry Not that it is now said as for this hundred years it hath been said that the Laws which they would have repealed are against Gods Law And that therefore they cannot yield them obedience But that the Ministers or People that will follow them have a doubt in Conscience which they cannot be cleared of that it is not Lawful for them to yield them obedience and that they cannot do it without sinning and incurring damnation by doing against their Consciences And this is also the Case in which those that acknowledge no Church of England no Right in Christian Powers to give Law to the Church within their own Dominions do demand liberty to separate from the Church into their private Conventicles Protesting that they cannot hold Communion with the Church setled by the Laws of the Land No not though Reformed to the content of those hitherto mentioned And pretending the same reason from S. Paul that they should incur sin and damnation doing it in that doubt which they cannot be cleared of CHAP. XIII The Mistake which causeth Weakness in our Case THe Case thus stated I must in the first place ask both Parties whether they do think in their Consciences that S. Paul had not shewed the Jews at Rome that were become Christians sufficient reason to clear them of the doubts they had concerning their obligation to the Law of Moses that they were indeed free of it and ought to be free of those doubts I suppose they will think it fit to say that though S. Paul injoyn them to forbear one another so long as they did not understand their freedom yet that they might understand it and were bound to understand it For is there any man so little a Christian now that the time of forbearance is past that there is no more hope to gain the Jews by compliance without making our selves Jews as to make a question of offending a Jew by not abating the Profession of his Christianity The consequence whereof is all that I demand If S. Paul would have the Jews forborn that the provocation which they might meet with might not move them to dislike their Christianity certainly he held them to be under a light which obliged them not to dislike it Otherwise he should not have done the work which he pretends to do by this Epistle to shew the Law to be void because Salvation comes only by Faith And certainly there can be nothing more opprobrious to Christianity then that which is pleaded for abatement in the present Laws That the weak are not under a light inabling them to see those things to be lawful which indeed and to the strong may be lawful and appear such For how could this doubt be cleared if a weak
to have been decayed and depraved in the Faith and Laws of the then present Church We have a Reformation established by certain Laws of the Kingdom which all men know how great a part of the Kingdom declineth because the See of Rome disclaimeth it And therefore the question is what that Law should be that may oblige Recusants to the Reformation which we profess For division in Religion can never so deprave mens senses as to punish them for refusing that which they are not obliged to embrace And yet who would have the Kingdom to establish that Reformation which they would not have it inact by competent Penalties Now such is our Case that since the afflictions which this Nation hath been visited with have revived the humor of departing into Conventicles Independents and Fanaticks decline Communion with this Church as much as Recusants And if we will speak properly to be understood according to the Laws we must distinguish them by the addition of Popish or Fanatick Recusants Whereupon the question arises what Penalties are competent to the one to the other whether the same or diverse For as there can be no Law if there can be no Penalties to enact it with So there can be no Penalty unless the Legislative Power be Judge of the Cause why the Parties decline the Law and may secure them in Conscience that they ought not to decline it Can any Christian Power punish the disobeying of that Law concerning which it cannot secure the Consciences of them that obey But there is a further difficulty in our Case in regard of the Presbyterians Who whatsoever they may do or may have done since the time of disorder have always pretended to the service of the Church so far from disclaiming Communion with it For grant they do usurp the liberty of Conventicles to hold their People at the more distance from being reduced to Law their pretense is not to be obnoxious to the Law for violating it but to make the Law obnoxious to themselves by reforming it Suppose we them then comprehended with the Clergy whose Authority is included in the present Laws in the same Priviledge of ministring in and to the Church Our Case is not stated till we consider that which all Pulpits ring of that no Religion stands to be the Religion of the Kingdom The Case was like to come to this when Cromwell first usurped For then it began to appear that this would be the fruit of his Course in maintaining all Parties in the Religions which the licentiousness of the War had allowed them to exercise The Laws having recovered possession and the dispute remaining by what Penalties to be exercised whether any or none whether those that are or what others I need not say that there is any Profession of Atheism which could never be professed among the very Gentiles This I say that whosoever favours it will necessarily shelter himself under the Law professing that which it maintaineth And therefore that it is to come into the state of our Case in which Forbearance is demanded for tender Consciences how it is to be limited That those who have No Religion if any such should be may not have the Benefit of it So the question now in hand is of the same consequence as if it were demanded upon what terms the Reformation of the Church is to be stated For whatsoever comes to debate the question will always be how far we ought to depart from the Church of Rome The other part of the question What Penalties the Reformation duly stated may or is to be inacted with will depend upon this for the greater part of it For what can render the subject of this Kingdom liable to Penalty for not obeying the Law which our Reformation is established with but that he is first bound in conscience to embrace the Reformation and to do the duty of a Christian according to it Only what Penalties and how great or or how grievous it is to be or may be inacted with This will further require the reason which makes it the duty of Christian States to joyn in Reforming the Church CHAP. II. That a private Person may be obliged to declare in it THis is that which obliges a private person as I am to declare his Opinion when so great a concernment of his Conscience is at stake For who could ever think the Reformation could stand were not the Clergy obliged as the Law obliges them every one in his place to reduce Recusants to the Church Or how should they either do this or stand obliged to do it if the Reason upon which the Reformation and the Law by which it is stated proceeds inable them not to convince them that they are bound in Conscience to embrace it These hundred years hath the dispute been on foot Very nigh so long it is since the Bull of Pius V. acquited the Subjects of the Kingdom of their Allegiance to Q. Elizabeth The Government being then jealous of that Party those that had appeared before in the Troubles of Francford to challenge a share in the Government of the Church thought this the time to set their pretensions on foot It is to be seen by Camdens Annals that when the Recusants first forbore coming to Church about that time did this Party begin to be known by the name of Puritans Ever since that time did these embers lye raked up in deceitful ashes still most appearing when the State was most solicitous till at length the Party appeared in Arms against the late King and prevailing in those Arms became divided into those several Parties which remain united in the Plea for tender Consciences For the Laws recovering by His Majesties return the same embers which it was then thought fit to rake up again in the same deceitful ashes upon the first rub have flamed out again to demand Law to justifie that which they usurp by way of Fact against Law Both pleading that their Consciences cannot be subject to any Law in the Case and that Christianity hath not wherewith to clear up those doubts against which if they proceed they are damned It must therefore needs be said that the present Laws have been justified beyond all contradiction that may pretend any thing to be commanded by the Laws which Gods Law forbids So that the demand of new Laws seems to be a demand that the Conclusion be contradictory to that which is inferred by the Premises And what should Weakness demand of Reason that is to give Law but inconsequence Only let not inconsequence in Reason draw mischief upon us in effect We have hitherto answered the demand Where was your Church before Luther That it was where it is The same Church Reformed which was decayed and depraved afore Neither can we ever answer otherwise till we renounce our Creed and deny that One Holy Catholick Church which we must be saved by believing and by continuing in the Vnity of it Depart we once from
Christendom have something else to do then to imploy the forces of their Dominions to that purpose And that if it prove for the Interest of some of them at some times it will prove not to be for the Interest of others at the same or other times Of which Interest as they are indeed and in Conscience to give account to God and not to the See of Rome so that they will ever make the See of Rome the Judge of them what appearance can there be So it is time of the day for them to hearken to Reason whether they regard God and Religion or Interest and themselves But is not our Case the same Or are not we transported as far with the conceit that they are limbs of Antichrist and Idolaters as they are with the conceit that we are Hereticks and Schismaticks Have we not as long expected when the Kings would joyn to strip the Whore of Babylon naked as they when they would joyn to reduce the Hereticks by force And is it not yet time of the day for us whatsoever opinion those that imploy their time in searching the meaning of a Prophesie may have at least to make it no Principle of our Profession nor to maintain Separation upon the Account of it Knowing that were the Pope twenty times Antichrist and the Papists Idolaters he can never be Antichrist nor they Idolaters for any thing that the consent of the Catholick Church either alloweth or injoyneth So that whatever become of any Prophesie in Gods Word and the sense of it the bounds of Reformation will be the very same And he will be no less an Heretick or a Schismatick that makes the Pope Antichrist or the Papists Idolaters for doing or believing any thing which the Church from the beginning hath injoyned or allowed to be believed or to be done then if he pretended no Prophesie to prove it If ever any people had cause to reflect upon the sad consequences of this conceit we are they that shall find no probable reason to impute the mischiefs of the late Vsurpation to but the hope of fulfilling this sense of this Prophesie It is a vain thing to think that a man who believed no God could Act a counterfeited Religion throughout as we have seen the Usurper do He that could hope to be saved either without Faith or without good Works by having Christ alive at the Heart why should not he think that all the foul way he went through was the Service of God having intended to strip the Whore of Babylon by his means Neither Manichaeus nor Mahomet nor any Enthusiast can be barred of the like aim with this if once he make his private Spirit parallel to the Scripture For that which the same Authority last dictates as in Wills and Testaments must take place I say not that this is the Case of those that interpret this Prophesie of the See of Rome I believe they follow their Reason in expounding Scripture by Scripture But if their Reason be not the Reason of Religion the Reason of that Christianity which we all have Interest in the private Spirit that follows it may take all for Gods Service though never so wicked that is done in prosecution of it In the mean time Division increasing among us as it does I think I gratifie our selves and not the See of Rome in proposing that truth which reconciles the Interest of Reformation to the Interest of Vnity in the Church For in Civil War as Schism is nothing but a Civil War in the Church that Party that divides is the likely to Ruine And though the first hopes of the See of Rome have proved addle yet if our Divisions prevail they must needs have fresh hopes to prevail by our Divisions CHAP. VIII That it is the Duty of this Kingdom and of all Christian Soveraignties ANd therefore I must freely profess my opinion without any manner of hope that ever the See of Rome will abate any thing of their rigour Though the Reformation should content themselves with these terms For I find by the proceeding of former times that it is their Maxime to stand to that which they have once done And to mark those Popes to posterity that have abated any thing from the rigour of their Predecessors For being arrived at this Greatness by this Rigour and obstinacy in all Pretenses right or wrong they will always think themselves obliged in Reason of State not to yield so much as the Cup in the Eucharist Though the Council of Trent leave it in the Popes Power to grant it Because granting that any thing is and hath been amiss who shall secure them that nothing more shall be questioned then is indeed amiss when we see no point in Religion remain unquestioned some time or some where Not considering all the While that this Rigor is the cause of Division and Division the cause of these Questions And that the Reason of Reformation being owned on both sides there is a Ground restored for Confidence that they who accept of it will stand to those Bounds which it setleth But if the See of Rome can have no Power against the Whole Church Much less can any other Church or any part of the Church or any Secular Power that protecteth it make that to be Reformation which the Whole Church alloweth not Or secure their Subjects Consciences of the Salvation they seek in exercising their Christianity according to their Laws but by confining the Reformation which they maintain within those Bounds which the Faith and the Laws of the Whole Church either require or allow Now how can the Interest of the Nation be secured without due ground for hope of Gods blessing upon that which shall be done How can there be ground to expect Gods blessing till it appear how all Subjects of this Kingdom shall stand discharged at the day of Judgment following that form which the Kingdom inacteth rather then that which the See of Rome requireth For there are other Christian Princes and Soveraignties that command their Subjects to obey the See of Rome whose Subjects must as well stand discharged to God upon the same Plea as the Subjects of Reformed Princes and States And how shall the Consciences of them that make Laws be secured if they cannot secure the Consciences of them for whom they are made Or how can Gods blessing be expected if this security cannot be evidenced It is not yet time to ask how those that allow not the Reformation upon these Terms should be punished Because there are that pretend that no punishment can be inflicted for disobeying any Law of the Kingdom by which Religion is setled But it is time to say that they make it a very ridiculous thing for the Legislative Power to make Laws for the Kingdom which they can inact by no Penalty And how shall this difficulty be voided but by demanding nothing but that which Christianity will require of all Christians That no Christian Kingdom
to be Christians Which cannot otherwise oblige all Clergie-men to be Subjects upon the same terms as they should be if their Soveraigns were not Christians but that it must oblige all Publick Powers to maintain the Clergy in the same Rights which they had and must have had over Christian People did not the Publick Powers profess the Faith And therefore though I do claim that the Synods of the two Provinces and their Decrees ought to be confined within the bounds so oft said yet I do demand of All especially of those that may have made the Oath of Canonical Obedience to their Bishops how they can profess to owne Episcopacy especially according to their Oath that pass over this Right of the Synods For that which is done without or against their Consent shall make them no Bishops That must receive Law from their Clergy if the Secular Power make their sense of the Scripture Law to the Kingdom Whereas I that take the liberty to prove all this without their Authority can clearly Profess that I think it a point not subject to Canonical Authority which I plead for And that otherwise I should think it inconsistent with the Oath of Canonical Obedience which I have made CHAP. X. The Case in which S. Paul forbears the Weak COme we now to that Scripture of S. Paul to the Romans upon which the whole Plea for tender Consciences is grounded and to state the Case in which he prescribeth And see what forbearance it will inforce in our Case S. Paul having shewed the Romans who before they were converted to be Christians had been some Jews some Gentiles that Righteousness and Salvation comes only by Faith or by Christianity and not by the Law or by Judaism also proceedeth in the fourteenth Chapter of that Epistle to Order them to forbear one another The Jews not to censure the Gentiles for not observing the Law The Gentiles not to scorn the Jews if not understanding the freedom of Christians they lived as Jews in all or in some things It is manifest who are the strong and who are the weak with S. Paul in that he is one of the strong where he says XV. 1. We that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak They that understand how Righteousness and Salvation comes only by Faith notwithstanding that it was to be had under the Law as well as afore the Law these are the strong One man believes he may eat any thing though forbidden by the Law but he that is weak and sees nothing else on the Table but that which the Law forbids eats herbs One man makes difference of a day above a day according to the Law another esteems every day alike XIV 2 5. These two instances are put for all indifferent things prescribed or forbidden by the Law He that understood the purpose of God in giving the Law which he intended to make void or rather to fulfil in due time So that Salvation came not by it when it was to be had under it He is the strong with S. Paul He that understood it not and yet continued a Christian that he might come to understand it the weak Let no man marvel that the Romans who took S. Paul for an Apostle should not understand that which S. Paul had proved by this whole Epistle For he proveth it by the Mystical sense of the Old Testament Which they who had submitted to the Faith could not owne nevertheless until they understood the reason why God gave the Law with an intent to bring in the Gospel by it Let no man think that they were not fit to be baptized for such were they all to whom S. Paul writes that understood not this belonging to the Foundation of Faith Baptism maketh all Disciples of Christ and therefore findeth them not so It is necessary that he who is baptized should undertake all that which he shall come to learn that Christ hath taught It is not necessary that he should know what it is knowing that Salvation is not to be had without doing all that whatsoever it is which it shall appear that Christ hath taught CHAP. XI Compared with his Orders at Corinth and elsewhere BUt seeing S. Paul forbiddeth the Corinthians to scandalize the weak in eating meats that had been sacrificed to Idols we must not state the Case of the Romans without considering how the Case of the Corinthians may concern it Here S. Paul distinguishes scholastically that such meats might be eaten either as Gods Creatures materially or formally as meats sacrificed to Idols which Idolaters feasted upon after their Sacrifices in honour of their Idols as we see by his words 1 Cor. X. 7. Nor be ye Idolaters as some of them were As it is written The people sate down to eat and drink and rose up to play And Dan. V. 4. They drunk wine and praised the Gods of gold and silver of brass of iron of wood and of stone S. Paul then resolveth that Christians may eat meats sacrificed to Idols as Gods creatures and that they cannot be polluted by being sacrificed to Idols which are nothing But that when there may be occasion for Christians to think that a Christian eats them as Idolaters did as eating them in an Idol-Temple or being invited home by an Idolater in such Cases it was necessary to forbear for Christian Charities sake least a weak Christian seeing a strong Christian eat them should think he eat them as Idolaters did and doing so himself should fall into misprision of Idolatry 1 Cor. VIII 7 10. X. 27 28. And by this example we may gather by the way what S. Paul means Rom. XIV 15 20. Destroy not him with thy meat for whom Christ dyed For meat destroy not the work of God He means that the danger was no less if the Gentiles should not forbear the Jews but despise their weakness that could not see themselves free of the Law then that they should fall into dislike with the Faith and return to the Jews Religion again So the danger at Corinth was Idolatry at Rome Apostasie S. Paul then forbids the Corinthians to make inquiry for conscience sake 1 Cor. X. 25. whether that which is sold in the shambles had been sacrificed to an Idol or not But Daniel did make inquiry for conscience sake when he resolved not to be polluted with the Kings meat Dan. I. 5 8. taking all of it to be dedicated to Idols in the first-fruits of it For this being the custom of the Heathen made all their meats suspicious as dedicated to their Idols Tobit is not Canonical Scripture But it is as Old as the Old Testament in Greek The Author of it relates for his commendation that he kept himself from eating the bread of the Gentiles when his Brethren and kindred did eat of it Tobit I. 10 11 12. because he remembred God with all his heart This signifies that the more Religious did observe it though not commanded by
Conscience should be pretended when the question is whether to turn Christian or not Is it possible that there should be such a doubt in that point that a man to whom the Reason why he ought to be a Christian is sufficiently proposed can be said to be under a light that convinceth him not Which if it be true then is there nothing in Christianity which there is not a sufficient light to convict that man of to whose Office it belongs Otherwise it could not being to his Office not being able to discern the Obligation of it It is therefore a horrible reproach to Christianity to say that any doubting Conscience is not under a light sufficient to resolve it Scruples of Conscience there may be which may eternally have recourse and that no disparagement to the Faith Because the Faith provides a Resolution that they who have scruples in Conscience are bound in Conscience to lay them aside Nay to act positively against them But he that says that being a Christian he is not under a light sufficient to clear him in any doubt of Conscience says that the Faith obligeth him to sin Whereas it is not the Faith but the want of it which obligeth not the erring Conscience to sin but intangleth him so that he must sin if the obligation of acting fall out before the errour be removed Suppose the Jews convict by the Epistle to the Romans that Salvation comes only by Faith and not by the Law also And you suppose them under a light that neither the Law nor any Ordinance then standing by virtue of the Law could oblige But suppose them in love with themselves and with their Ancestors and to have such an Opinion of Salvation intailed upon them and their issue by the Law as to think that they could not have it by God that gave the Law if the Gentiles might have it as well as themselves and they might very well for consequence of Reason though very ill for their own account oversee the light they were under Suppose we now those that make this Plea not to believe one Catholick Church and one Baptism for the remission of sins But had rather gratifie the Socinians and deny that any Christian can be obliged to any thing that appears not to his own Reason out of Canonical Scripture Then imagine he should gratifie the Papist if he should grant that Catholick Communion always made the Catholick Church Suppose them not to believe that the Faith which only saveth includeth Baptism in the Catholick Church And that this Church is not Reformed unless it be restored to the same form I say supposing them possest with such prejudices as these and marvel not to see them eternally doubting whether or no it be lawful for them to obey the Laws which this Church and Kingdom is able to make Nay to see them break out into Schism as all Parties now seem to do rather then obey them when they shall be out of hope to give their own Law to the Kingdom Never forecasting how it may appear to continue a Church when they have given such Laws to it CHAP. XIV That it is not Forbearance to allow their Orders I Suppose they who make this Plea will not grant that they are in any errour so near the Foundation as these which I name Nor do I think that those Christian Jews at Rome that doubted of transgressing the Law when they knew that Salvation comes only by Faith did deny the Foundation of Faith For as long as they lived in the Church they were in the way to learn and understand how both were true Neither will I say that any of those who desire Forbearance for the weak are in any errour destructive to the Foundation of Faith and the hope of Salvation till they break out into Conventicles When that is done I am thenceforth bound to charge them with all the Error which the Title of their Schism can signifie And therefore I charge them with Hypocrisie when they pretend to Forbearance because they are weak and yet break out into Conventieles when they do so then they can be counted no more the weak among Christians then those Jews which S. Paul will have to be forborn as the weak among Christians supposing them to have renounced the Faith afterwards rather then continue in the Church And therefore the Plea of weak Consciences cannot be allowed those that ingage in Conventicles They have cut themselves off from it by leaving the Church Let them return and then make the best of it As to them the Church is under a new Precept of S. Paul which says A man that is an Heretick after the first and second admonition avoid Knowing that such a one is out of the way and sinneth being condemned by himself Titus III. 10 11. Because saith S. Hierom after S. Cyprian Whereas other sinners are put out of the Church by those that manage the Keys of the Church Hereticks and Schismaticks put themselves out of the Church Therefore Titus that is all Titus his flock are to avoid them for Excommunicate persons who do Excommunicate themselves As for those that continue in the Church though with a pretense of giving such Laws to the Church as no man knows how soon they may unchurch it let them make their best of it But being grounded at least upon a pretense of weakness there can be no question made but some errour must be granted for the ground of this weakness Let themselves at their leisure assign what errour they will acknowledge if they like not that which I have assigned Only let them shew the world that is the Legislative Power of this Kingdom what errour it is that they have hitherto had which being avoided for the future all those difficulties will cease which this Discourse pretendeth cannot be met with but by bounding the Reformation within the Faith and the Laws of the Catholick Church In the mean time let me go on to shew that those who were Ordained in and for the late Schism composed by the Laws at his Majesties Return by Presbyters against their Bishops cannot claim by virtue of it to be owned for Presbyters Or in the terms of the Ancient Church to be received in their own Orders A thing which there can no question be made in by any body that understands what the Church or what a Schism signifies And it is marvel how they that would be thought to allow Episcopacy should question it To acknowledge the Authority of giving Orders in the Bishops according to the Laws by which we both maintain this Church to be Reformed and yet to allow those that are made Presbyters by those Bishops not to Ordain others but to Minister the Office of their Order according to the Reformation setled in this Church I say to allow them to Ordain others to Minister their Office by other Laws not only without but against the consent of the Bishops from whom they have their
they can challenge by their Orders what pretense is there to imagine that there can be any such Crime as Schism if this be not it That God should bless that which is done by such gross Vsurpation as this is And when all this is said it remains free for me to say That there is no other way to restore and to preserve Vnity within the Reformation but by establishing and maintaining Episcopacy in that Authority which it hath always had for the determining of differences Nor maintain that Authority but by confining it within the Bounds which the Faith and the Laws of the whole Church do limit As for the Fanaticks which make our Orders void because the Pope is Antichrist and the Mass Idolatry whence our Bishops received and where they exercised their Orders I will only consider the Case of the Donatists forejudged by the whole Church They pleaded in point of fact that Caecilianus was Ordained by Apostates A thing which the Church was so clear in that the African Bishops offered to give up their Sees if it were proved But besides in point of Right had it been proved and Caecilianus owned by the Church because it did not appear or because they thought the Canons ought to be dispensed with for Unities sake those that Ordained Caecilianus having repented of their Apostacy shall we imagine that the Church was lost by owning those that had been Apostates and their Ordinations The Donatists are branded for Hereticks and Schismaticks maintaining all the Laws of the Church but that of Unity And shall Lay-Christians presuming to authorize Lay-Christians to consecrate the Eucharist and set up Churches be esteemed less then Hereticks and Schismaticks Let those that pretend to Unity find that Forbearance which a favourable construction of their actions signifies But Charity to the sound obligeth to take the profession of Schismaticks in the worst sense which if we do the making of Independent Congregations Churches will be the denying of One Catholick Church and the making of them Hereticks that do it CHAP. XVI That changing the Laws for the Weak is not Forbearance BUt if it be a thing absurd in common sense to allow them their Orders much more absurd will it be to change the Ecclesiastical Laws of the Land for their sakes Which is nothing else but to purchase their Ministry at the price of our Religion which the Ecclesiastical Laws contain Here we must distinguish two questions For it may be lawful for Christian people to live by those Laws which it was not lawful for Superiors in Church and State to make A thing evident to all that believe that it was possible for our Ancestors before the Reformation to be saved under the abuses of the Church of Rome But our question is whether or no the Laws of Superiors injoyn that which Gods Law forbids Inferiors to do Otherwise it is pernicious to all Government that Inferiors should take upon them to judge the Acts of Superiors But if the matter of the Law be within the Power that makes it to require an Exception for tender Consciences is to say that there is no Power in the World to give any Law to those tender Consciences Was there ever any Heresie any Schism any Religion pretending Christianity that did not alledge Scripture for themselves Did ever any man alledge it that would not be thought to be touched at the heart with it What is there for a Christian to doubt at where the Exception of tender Consciences lyes not Or how shall we that agree against the See of Rome but agree not in the terms and grounds of Reformation be tryed in the sense of the Scripture Can any man imagine that S. Paul intended to destroy his own Authority of giving Law to the Church which he exercised when he ordered the Jews and Gentiles at Rome to forbear one another Or is this Authority dead with the Apostles What Church then can there be alive if there be no Authority deriyed from the Apostles to give Law to it But the Authority is not questioned so it provide for weak Consciences Episcopacy will be owned if the Secular Power will force it to take them for their Presbyters whose Ministry they cannot give account to God of Being both authorized and exercised by Laws made without and against their Authority This no Christianity can justifie Christianity maintains the Estates of the World in all the Right they had when they became Christians And cannot justifie it self to the World otherwise How should the World receive it upon other terms But if the World stand upon the same terms having received Christianity as afore then must Christianity and the Church continue in the same Rights which it had before the World received it No exception to be allowed but as afore If it appear that the Faith and Laws of the Primitive Church be decayed Not if it seem to private Spirits that the Scripture is not fulfilled In the mean time is it for the honour of the Religion we profess that Weakness which at the best is negative ignorance in truth perhaps wilful ignorance should give Law to it Is it reason that they who have failed to destroy both Church and Kingdom should give Law to both As if a Child should govern the House because he will be framfold and disquieted otherwise Surely it is that which the Emperor said to his Niece Put as tibi injuriam fieri nisi imperas But is that the way to have Peace in Religion When Inferiors shall be made to tread upon the necks of their Superiors they will be so modest for the future as to stay there They will be content to have their Doctrine regulated by them as the Law of the Kingdom requires Or they will think fit that the Bishops be content with their Revenues and leave them to Preach what they please Surely they that can carry the dispute of a hundred years wherein the Bishops had so visibly the better that Club-law was found requisite to get the advantage will not lay down the Cudgels here So they that agree in conforming to the Laws differing every day in that which the Law determines not the Recusants on both sides may make hay in the heat of our Contentions and profit more by such a Law then by the War which destroyed this Church But especially the Atheists who have profited so well under these Contentions as to make that visible which was but foreseen under the Usurper That no Religion would in time stand to be the Religion of the Kingdom They having the Priviledge of the Laws and not liable to any Infamy when the differences maintained make Religion contemptible shall have cause to thank all that shall have done their work by solliciting such Laws CHAP. XVII Of the Opinion of Regeneration by Baptism ONe point I must not pass over in silence which hath been named for a point to be changed That all passages seeming to determine the Opinion of Baptismal
Jurisdiction of Ecclesiastical Courts under the Jurisdiction of the Laws of the Land and those Courts that minister the same This Interest espouseth the Opinion which voids the Article of our Creed that professes One Catholick Church making Excommunication and Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction founded by our Lord Christ a meer Imposture declareth it uncapable of any Sacriledge to be committed in the using of it In the mean time the Clergy whose Interest is no ways concerned in the Scandals which the Ecclesiastical Courts may give Further then as they are hindred by the said Courts to cure their Scandals by the due Use of their own Office do suffer not only the Scandals which are done under colour of their Patents But even the affronts of the Ecclesiastical Courts themselves Receiving Appeals from the Censure of their Bishops upon the Clergy For a few examples serving the Bishops not to imploy that Jurisdiction which is so easily affronted it must be acknowledged that the debauches of the Clergy are come to that height that till they be Reformed Reformation is not duely pretended against the See of Rome CHAP. XXII The ground of the proper Interest of the Church BUt perhaps there be those that are perswaded by the Leviathan that a Church is nothing else but a Christian Common-wealth And that the Civil Power thereof which is Soveraign hath full Right to injoyn whatsoever it please for the Christian Religion exacting what Penalties it please of Recusants There be others besides the Leviathan that have maintained some branches of the same Opinion but he is the only man that hath looked the whole Question in the Face with this Answer I will but relate the Issue which his own Resolution hath driven him to and leave him to Judgment For having objected to himself in his Latine Book de Cive that which is obvious to all Understandings That then a Christian may be justly punished for his Christianity He answers that it is no inconvenience that he should Because by suffering he purchases an abundant reward I know not whether any man told him or whether himself took notice that this was the answer of Julian the Apostate making himself sport with the complaints of the Christians That they were beholding to him for the Kingdom of Heaven which they gained by suffering his Persecutions But that it was not for the credit of his doctrine to bring Christian Princes into the predicament of Julian the Apostate And therefore upon second thoughts his Leviathan answers That a Subject is bound to obey all that his Soveraign commands in Religion whether he be Christian or not Insomuch that if he command him to renounce Christ he is bound to do it with his mouth and shall be saved believing in him with his heart nevertheless This answer shews the necessary issue of this Opinion That he who holds it if he be as bad as his word is as necessarily an Apostate as Julian the Apostate The hope of Salvation and the Right of Communion with the Church lyes not only in the heart which believes to righteousness but in the mouth which professeth to Salvation The Profession which is made at our Baptism is a Condition without which it cannot be had It is the taking up of Christs Cross which the Gospel requireth He that declares himself free in any Case whatsoever to renounce Christs though he hath not done it hath declared himself free of the Bond which he entred into at his Baptism And as he is no more a Christian to God no more should he be to the Church If further he say As the Propositions first maintained and afterwards recanted by his late Disciple at Cambridge do import That there is no difference between good and bad before Civil Power that is Soveraign inact it Then must it be said further that he is properly an Atheist For if God govern not the World if he reward not the good if he punish not the bad though man do not pardon me God and all good Christians if I repeat Blasphemy that it may never more be repeated then is he not God Particularly if Civil Power can oblige a man to say or swear that which he means not there remains not that Ground for Civil Society which the Heathen themselves whom nevertheless S. Paul truly calls Atheists maintained For what Ground for Civil trust if there be no Law before Civil trust to punish the falsifying of it Let him that considers this Consequence necessary upon all Opinions that distinguish not the matter of Ecclesiastical Law consequent to the State and Constitution of the Church from the Force it hath to be a Law of the Kingdom by the Act of the Kingdom I say let him answer in Conscience whether those Laws by which the Rights of the Crown Usurped by the See of Rome are Resumed into it did proceed upon this Opinion or not For my part I remember very well a solemn Protestation which one of them makes that the intent was not to innovate any thing in Religion by vindicating the Rights of the Crown And therefore do infer that none of them can be understood to extinguish the Rights of Religion concurrent with the Rights of the Crown in Church-matters which it doth not distinguish Knowing how difficult it is to distinguish between them As not knowing that ever the ground upon which they are to be distinguished was delivered till now But there is an Act of the V. of Q. Elizabeth by which that abatement in the sense of the Supremacy of the Crown in Church-matters which had been declared by her Injunctions from the beginning of her Raign to prevent misconstructions was made a Law of the Land This Act because it undertaketh not to limit the Supremacy by distinguishing the Interest of the Crown from the Interest of the Church for the difficulty of satisfying all Consciences gives the Subject leave to declare the sense in which he takes that Oath reserving to himself that which Religion requires a Christian to reserve for the Church Which was not the sense of them that believed no Catholick Church no Visible Right of it And by vertue of this Declaration it is that my self have undertaken to declare that limitation which the Catholick Church requireth For how many Prelates and Divines of this Church King James of excellent Memory in particular have done the same But it is no other then that which the Canons of K. James declare when they describe this Supremacy to be the same which the Godly Kings of Gods Ancient People which the Roman Emperors of the Primitive times before that corruption came in which we Protest against did exercise Here have you the due bounds of this Supremacy setled by Law upon the true ground of it For it is manifest that it cannot be derived from the Rights of the Kings of Gods Ancient People alone Because there could be no Catholick Church before the calling of the Gentiles But the Empire imbracing the Faith when the Church
which it professeth to use the Canon Law which it adopteth till time shew the way of amending those particulars which time shall shew that the Reformation pretended requires to be changed For instance we know that since Henry VIII it is not the custom to take any degree in Canon Law Notwithstanding the Law of the Land adopteth the Canon Law And accordingly we all know that Graduates in the Civil Law of the Romans are priviledged by the Ecclesiastical Law of the Kingdom I would fain have any of them that would wear the Face and the Conscience of a good Christian and a good English man both Give me a reasonable Account of these their Tenures waving that which I here set forth for them whom they will think too bold with their Freehold for it For my part who am no mans foe but my own in publishing my Opinion thus freely upon this Exigent I think I do good service to them with my Country to set forth this Account why and how the Roman Laws deserve to be adopted into the Laws of the Kingdom Namely that the Popes Canon Law which is already adopted may be limited within those Bounds with the Roman Laws And by consequence the Primitive Canons of the Church which the Roman Laws acknowledge and inforce do either prescribe or allow I would make a further Offer of introducing the Roman Laws both into the Study of the Law of the Land and into Authority in our Courts of Equity And of reconciling thereby the Cross-Interests of the Professions upon competence of Jurisdictions But though I must needs have that Opinion my self which I can see nothing against seeing much for it yet I will trouble no man with an Opinion which neither my Profession obliges me nor my skill inables me to make out It shall be enough for me to observe that they shall deserve to be counted Professors of the Roman Laws that are trusted to minister the Canon Laws by those Bounds which the Roman Laws allow As for the Concurrence of that Jurisdiction which is proper to the Clergy by Gods Law and that which is resumed by the Crown to be ministred by the Professors of the Roman Laws I do acknowledge it cannot be ended but by Appeals The issue whereof whither it ought to resort when it is time to say it will be then time to say also how these Interests are reconcileable In the mean time Episcopacy being owned by the Law of the Kingdom and the Law of God both to be that which the whole Church from the beginning acknowledgeth I think I do my Country and the Church of God in it no disservice to propose a plaister large enough for the Sore of it that shall come within the bounds which I have proposed For the Chapters of Cathedral Churches are by their Birth-right Counsellors to the Bishops and Assistants in his whole Office The Archdeacon his Minister and principal Commissary Those by the Rule first set on foot by the Apostles and observed always by the Church of planting Cathedral Churches in Cities and making the Churches planted in Cities Cathedral Churches for the Government of all Christendom within the Territories of those Cities This being by his Order Ministerial to them as well as to the Bishop when both have part in the same Office And here I place the hinge upon which I hang the Reconcilement of the presumed Interest of the Presbyterians with the true Interest of the Clergy Supposing the Conference proposed to have taken effect and produced a Request of both Parties to the Legislative Power of the Kingdom to make a Law of those particulars upon which they are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 come to agreement to be received and to exercise their Ministry For the Office of the Clergy being separated from the Interest of the Crown by an Act of the Kingdom And the Professors of the Roman Laws trusted to manage this Interest in behalf of the Subject Only assisting the Clergy in that part of the Jurisdiction proper to the Church which will concern the Interest of Subjects as Members of the Church as well as the Office of the Clergy What shall hinder them the Presbyterians as well as the rest of the Clergy to exercise the Zeal which they have always professed towards the Reforming of the conversation of the People in assisting that Discipline as well over the Inserior Clergie as the People which the Chapters of Cathedral Churches and the Archdeacons shall by the Bishop and under the Bishop be trusted with For what need all this hinder the Prerogative of the Bishops Negative Vote when as there will be more to do under him then hands will be found for reserving to him those causes which he would chuse to reserve For that will be found no more then requisite to preserve his Prerogative that nothing be done without him when nothing is done without him but that which he shall chuse to be eased in He that knows what the Hierarchy signifies must needs understand that the same means which preserved the Whole Church in Vnity so far and wide for place so long for time as Unity prevailed in the Church and Christianity with it and by it knows that the same must be used to preserve Unity in the Church of this Kingom The Question being how to Reform it so that it may continue a Member of the Whole CHAP. XXIV Some Principal Canons to be restored in our present State FOr let no man think that any Law can be effectual to this purpose till the Case be stated which the Law is provided for We are in the State of Schism in spite of our teeth Though we are to clear our selves of the crime of Schism upon the Terms setled which cannot clear us if it be possible that any other should clear us King Henry the VIII had reason to declare that he and his Kingdom should have nothing to do with the Pope that Excommunicated him for his Divorce So many Popes having discharged the Subjects of Princes Excommunicate of their Allegiance But to make good the Protestation that he intended no further change in Religion I need not say what he did to give succeeding Popes occasion to recal the folly of that Pope which Excommunicated him by a timely Reconcilement In the mean time the way to preserve the Kingdom in Peace was to have nothing to do with the See of Rome But had he been so well advised as to have maintained his Divorce upon the terms which I plead for What could the Pope have said to that Code of Canons which Pope Adrian the I. sent to Charles the Great which I would have this Church to owne For it concludes with a Synod of the Province of Rome under Pope Gregory the II. which pronounces Anathema to whosoever shall marry his deceased Brothers Wife Let Julius II. Pope that dispensed with Henry the VIII and his Marriage with the Lady Katherine of Spain have bethought himself how to
be a Church Conviction which is the Act of the Law making the Crime notorious how can Christianity be protected and the Church not able to renounce them that renounce it by their deeds The increase of sin so flagrant in this Nation since the War began makes the necessity of this Law flagrant I was speaking of the Leviathan that Monster of a Christian that with one Book allowed by the Act of Oblivion because the Doctrine was not damned when the Person was pardoned hath introduced that Deluge of Atheism and Prophaneness which we are ready to be drowned with Let Publick Justice have the convicting of the Blasphemies which he hath taught if the Church be not in Case to bear the envy of such a trust But to account for such a crime by a pecuniary mulct is to sell our Christianity at the price at which it is defied Unless Infamy follow and Excommunication to bring it on farewel Christianity which compoundeth with Apostasie The Father of the Sect thinks I believe that he hath as good Right to the Communion as the rest of His Majesties Subjects Who though he should profess Penitence for his crime could not be believed having given the World warning that he may be bound to say and to swear that which he doth not believe What course but this to suppress the Vanity of committing Murther under the name of a Duel For in all Common-wealths where mens memory is not liable to Infamy sin is not out of countenance In that which is Christian what can be infamous if to forfeit Communion with the Church be not As for Adultery what punishment hath this Kingdom left for it Or how shall it be counted a Christian Kingdom having none Be the tryal of it as Civil Interest shall require If it pass without Excommunication though the Law of the Land lay no hold on it what can clear the Kingdom of the expectation of Gods vengeance By consequence hereof they that are convicted of Simony in Civil Justice must remain Irregular to the Church That is though their Ordination can never be void yet their persons must remain incapable of any trust which their Clergy should make them capable of And why should not the Priviledge of their Clergy cease and they remain Excommunicate for such a Crime The other Law concerning the Clergy is the confining of every one to one Diocese Which is but the Restoring of that Order which the See of Rome had disordered on purpose to ingage in the disorders of it all that they obliged by such Priviledges For the Priviledges reserved to the Crown Nobility and Bishops whereby the abuse is but displaced will not be considerable in comparison with the Reformation which it hindreth It seems strange to those that find themselves Interested that two Benefices with Cure should be allowed in one Diocese not in several Dioceses though at less distance But the Law cannot be understood to allow all that it forbids not Because there may be Reason why the Publick good will not allow the forbidding of that which is left to the Conscience of particular persons Were all Benefices restored to that Provision which the Cures might require perhaps Priviledges of Pluralities might be extinguished In the mean time is it not enough that whatsoever the Quality be the Office of Priest and Deacon is relative to their Respective Bishops that no man can be answerable to one Bishop for a Charge in which he is answerable to another for the same Which if it hold not in one and the same Diocese the Reason of the difference is both sufficient and evident Always the Ground being laid that the Reformation of the Church is to be Ruled by the Canons of the Primitive Church there can be no more question in this then is in any thing where the Primitive Institution is as Visible as the decay and abuse But this will principally concern Archdeacons and the Dignified Clergy which are to bear a part in the Bishops Office For how should they be charged with that which they are not charged to execute CHAP. XXVI Of Forbearance due or not due in two Instances I Have proposed a Conference I have determined that all is to be tryed by the agreement of the Catholick Church But if we stay till the Parties agree to that there must be no Conference What have we to overcome this difficulty with Considering how the necessity of losing all Religion presses all Parties and considering how slight the pretenses of dissatisfaction at the Act of Uniformity are though I cannot depart from my claim that the Reformation cannot duely be made but by and to that Pattern yet I see it may be laid aside in the Tryal not supposing that the Will of God is declared by it But if the advantage be not allowed which the consent of Christendom from the beginning hath in the judgment of common Reason above any Opinion of this time or any Party pretending Reformation what course can they hold that have not reasonable Creatures to deal with For how can they be counted reasonable that prefer their own Reason before the Reason of Christendom Or how shall they distinguish their private Spirits from the Enthusiasms of Fanaticks that insist upon those Interpretations and Consequences of Scripture which had any man seen before them the Church had never been as it hath been In fine the Case being stated I see no cause to apprehend any obstinacy in the Parties to prefer any faction or partiality before Reason so manifested and so concerning the common Christianity I will insist upon two Instances All the World knows that one of the abuses which made the necessity of Reformation most appear was that of private Masses where the Eucharist was celebrated and the people did not communicate It is as well known that the Reformation according to Calvin contents it self with four Communions a year but no Assembly without Preaching The Church of England hath aimed at the Communion every Lords-day and Holy-day at Sermons as frequent as can be had so as to maintain the reverence due to Religion to Preaching and to the Church What question can there be in Religion that the Eucharist is the principal Office of Religious Assemblies What pretense of Reformation in restoring Preaching by silencing the Eucharist It will be said that there is fear of prophaning so Religious an Office But where is Reformation if it make not the people fit for it The Papists say Private Masses are not commanded they would have the people communicate and incourage them to it But what do they do to bring them to it Surely more then they do that silence the Eucharist for the Sermon That are not contented till so much Preaching be commanded that they know the Eucharist must be silenced Let them think what abilities are requisite to maintain so frequent Preaching that there shall be no time for the Eucharist Let them think of the Scandals that must needs fall out
death But have imposed a Penalty of five shillings a Lords-day upon all that come not to hear their Sermons For though this Penalty is not strictly exacted at present yet it lyes at present Whereby the greater part of His Majesties Subjects in that Plantation are not only hindred from exercising the Religion injoyned by the Laws of this Kingdom But also their Children dye unbaptized themselves live and dye without the Communion of the Eucharist and in fine their Souls are murthered by this Tyranny of their misbelieving fellow-Subjects Whether all this by their Fatent or by Vsurpation I leave to those that may redress it to judge But if the Protection of Religion and of the Church lye in maintaining those Rights which the Soveraign Power finds the Church possest of when it undertakes the Profession of Christianity And all the Right of the Church which it hath by the meer consent of those that voluntarily undertake Christianity resolves into Excommunication Then is not the Church protected in the Rights of it by Christian Powers unless their Laws inable the Excommunication of the Church to lay hold on all their Subjects Nor can any inconvenience follow hereupon Because the Excommunication of the Church when it is protected by the Civil Power can never proceed but upon Causes which the Law allows Now ther are two sorts of Excommunicate persons according to the Premises One are they that Excommunicate themselves the other they that are Excommunicated by the Church For though they Excommunicate themselves yet because they are to be avoided by the Flock from whence they depart when they Excommunicate themselves they are to be held as if they were Excommunicate by the Church Now if they who thus Excommunicate themselves should be under no Penalty of Civil Power for so doing I would fain know what that Protection which Christian Powers must needs owne to the Christianity which themselves profess can avail it For if the Church Excommunicate those that perform not the Christianity which they profess and the Excommunicate be free to run into the Conventicles of those that Excommunicate themselves whowill care for performing the Christianity which he professeth Or how shall the Church and Religion subsist when no man need to care for performing the Christianity which he professeth This is the danger which is come so near to bring this Church to nothing at this time On the one side all Papists Excommunicate themselves on the other side all that run into Conventicles The Papists we all know are under Penalties grievous enough If we speak of that part which doth not decline their Allegiance As for those that do I have already set the consideration of them aside And yet there is this Apology for the severity of those Laws That they do take off the Penalty of perpetual imprisonment which by the Ancient Laws of the Kingdom introduced under the Papacy lyes against all that are Excommunicate And therefore is to lye against all that Excommunicate themselves If there be a reason why such severe Laws should be in force against them can any that wears the face of a man say why the other sort of Recusants should be free from all Penalties I think the World is sensible hereof in the suspension of the Penal Laws against the Recusants Which under his late Majesty was charged with such violent jealousies and now passes without discontent because there is neither conscience nor shame to levy those Penalties upon them and none upon the Conventicles In the mean time Atheism Prophaneness Blasphemy Apostasie Heresie shelter themselves under the Communion of the Church which the Laws protect and will needs be of that Religion which they may profess and need not perform And how long this Church can continue this Church upon those terms let those judge whom it concerns My business is only this That if those that Excommunicate themselves be under no Penalty those that are Excommunicate by the Church need not care that they are Excommunicate And so the Church is not protected because the Excommunication of the Church is not in force That is it is no Penalty to be Excommunicate to all that can think it is none And therefore unless it draw a Penalty of this World after it that all may have occasion to avoid the Penalty of the World to come by avoiding the Penalty of this World the Church is not protected It may be thought that the Church is protected nevertheless by the Priviledge of receiving the Tyths of those that decline it and of the Trust it manages of dispensing Church-goods And this is indeed part of the Penalty by which they redeem their Recusancy In as much as they are put to maintain the Religion which they invent Church-goods though they be Publick goods yet being originally affected to the maintenance of that Church which the Law protecteth But that being a Penalty of their own choice satisfies not the Protection of the Religion which the Kingdom professeth until the Law make it a disgrace and a degree of Infamy to stand Excommunicate whether by themselves or by the Church And seeing all Discipline even that of the Clergy ends in Excommunication To maintain the Revenue and let go Discipline would be to sell Religion for the Revenue of the Church For what would this be but a tempting of the debauched into the Service of the Church when there is no Discipline to restrain their debauches The complaints of this time shew this to be a Persecution which the Sects of the time bring upon the Church For Discipline is released for fear to stir and for hope to gain Sectaries and the fault is laid upon the Clergy that suffer in the releasing of Discipline But Christian Powers are bound not only not to persecute the Church themselves but not to suffer Sects to persecute it And to avoid trouble by releasing Discipline may be the way to find it in the means of avoiding it Certainly till Excommunication which is the utmost resort of all Discipline be in force we cannot say we have a Church but only because we have Laws by which it ought to be in force And because we hope to have Laws by which it will be in force Men may amuse themselves with the instance of the Vnited Provinces which they say flourish in trade and riches by maintaining all Religions But the question is of Religion not of Trade nor Riches If it could be said that their Religion is improved with their Trade the example were considerable But they that would restore and improve the Religion that flourished in England thirty years ago must not take up with the base Alloy of that which is seen in the Vnited Provinces Nor is this a reproach to them but a truth of Gods Word that Religion and Trade cannot be both at once at the height Besides there is a Religion of the State in the Vnited Provinces and other Religions are tolerated there because they were in being before