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A04208 A Christian and modest offer of a most indifferent conference, or disputation, about the maine and principall controversies betwixt the prelats, and the late silenced and deprived ministers in England tendered by some of the said ministers to the archbishops, and bishops, and all their adherents. Jacob, Henry, 1563-1624. 1606 (1606) STC 14329; ESTC S120767 28,632 54

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shall say the contrary haue in their said late Synod decreed that all who shall affirme that either the Ceremonyes in Controversie are superstitious and unlawfull Can 6 or that the Government by Archbishops and Bishops is not Apostolicall and lawfull are to be excommunicated ipso facto Now seeing that not onely the Ministers suspended and deprived but many thowsand others in this Kingdome do affirme and maintaine these things they stand all by vertue of those Canons Excommunicat and standing in that estate if justly are by consequence in the case of damnation yea so as dying resolutly in these poynts they must needes be damned everlastingly Either therefore the Prelats shall shew themselues to be Antichristiā and that in a high degree in sending without any mercy or compassion so many thowsand soules with the dash of a pen to Hell it being in their power to keepe them out or exceedingly presumptuous in denouncing such a sentence against those whō they cannot but know oftentimes do confesse to be the true servants of God or at the least it standeth them upon diligently to use all good meanes for the recovery of so many soules out of Hell especially then when by such an Offer as this is they hold up their hands out of the pit desiring to be pulled out 22 Last of all the Propositions being so plainly and distinctly layd downe and so directly opposite to the profession of the Prelats they having also so often disgraced the Ministers for their paucitie and povertie of gifts and learning and so often vaunted of the multitudes of great learned men on their side and by that meanes having far greater choyse of sufficient and able men then the Ministers haue and being better able to furnish them with all needfull helps to such a worke and the poynts in Controversie so neerely touching their Iurisdiction state and dignitie which is so deare and pretious unto them also the Offer that is made unto them being so equall just and Christian if they shall refuse to yeeld unto the same in steed thereof afflict the persons which humbly make this Offer unto them they shall therein proclaime to all the world that in these their proceedings they haue sinned doe sinne with a high hand and malicious heart contrary to knowledge and conscience against God and his Divine truth and therefore are to be judged to be at the next dore of committing that unpardonable sinne which the Prelats in the time of our Saviour Christs being upon the earth in the like cases committed From which if it be the good will of God notwithstanding all the evill which they haue done against these poore servants of Christ and the Churches of God committed to their charge they pray carnestly that they may quit thēselues and that upon their repentance in this life they may attaine unto such a crowne of glory as they in their consciences are perswaded is layd up for some of those whom they use now living in the world as Heathens Infidels 4. AN ANSWER TO SVCH OPPOSITIONS AS MAY BE MADE BY THE Prelats against yeelding to the aforesaid Offer 1. OPPOSITION The reverend Fathers of the Church before they proceeded to suspension and deprivation of the Ministers used godly admonitions exhortations arguments to perswade them to conformitie answering whatsoever they could then obiect why they should not conforme Therefore what neede they now to enter into that trouble againe ANSWER This is not true I. They neuer vsed any one Argumēt to the purpose but such as hath been sufficiently answered we know not how often 2. Their Admonitions were meere formall wherin also the Ministers were exceedingly wronged divers of them who were very poore men and some of their livings not aboue 40. som 30. some 20. pounds by the yeare their charge of wife children and family very great being forced to come in the depth of winter 9. or 10. times yea some oftener unto their Pallaces some of them 30. some 40. some 50. miles and more to receaue their Admonitions and at length their deprivations for their labor 3. We desire that the Prelats would publish to the view of all the world those Arguments which they used and the Ministers did not or could not answer 4. This is a most certaine truth wil be justified to the faces of them all that many of the Ministers demanded of them Reasons and Arguments according to the forme of the Kings Proclamation and they refused to giue any yea divers of them sundry times offered their Propositions and Reasons to the Prelats promising upō their reasonable answer with out any further question to Conforme and to this day they never gaue them any 5. This may the more incite them to accept of this Offer for by this meanes they may make knowne to the world those great Arguments and Resolutions which then they used and may set them downe with mature and advised deliberation to the honor of their proceedings 6. The only Argument to purpose that they used was this that it was his Majesties pleasure it should be so thereby laying the imputation and envie of their unjust proceedings upon him 2. OPPOSITION The Ministers can say noe more then they haue said written already and which we haue answered often And why then should we try these things any further ANSWER 1. This is more then the Prelats know Some of the Ministers haue lately said more to some poynts then hath been said before And upon such occasions as may be offered by such a Conference they may say more thē they haue said yet 2. The prelats by their corrupt answers in their late published writings haue given them occasion to say more then yet hath been said 3. This they are able to make good that that which they haue said alreadie hath not been answered as yet and therfore this Cōference is desired that these matters may be further tried 3. OPPOSITION It is dangerous that matters established by Law should be thus called into question and disputed of as matters doubtfull ANSWER 1. These matters are not now newly called into question but they haue been from time to time opposed against and so will be to the end of the world at least wise so long as so many Churches of God in other Kingdoms professe and practise as they doe and the rather because many great and famous Lights of the Church both beyond Seas and at home in their Monuments that shall last to all posteritie haue testifyed against them This therefore is not to call a matter which is out of question into question but to call a matter already in question to a direct and finall determination 2. It cannot but be rather very profitable vnto any State such rules and conditions as are here propounded being observed to debate and dispute in such a maner as this is of any humane law whatsoever For by this meanes if a law be iust it wil be an honor
our Cōsciences as being perswaded in our very soules that we cannot yeeld unto them without sinning against Christ Iesus whose Ministers and Messengers we are And if upon such a due Triall of our cause as is desired the truth of the ensuing Propositions which are the speciall groundes on which we stand shal be infringed by the Prelates nay if we shall not be able to make them so cleere and manifest by the infallible undeniable evidence of the holy word of God that who so doth not wilfully hoodwinke himselfe may plainely see and discerne the truth of them we doe heere promise and binde our selues in the word of Christians that we will presently change our mindes and become wholly Conformable to the present State Wherefore we being herein privy to our owne uprightnes both to God to our Soveraigne cannot but conceiue some hope notwithstanding all the contrary plottes and practises of the Prelates that your Maiestie who are even as an Angell of God to discerne betweene good and evill wil be pleased now at last both to take a more exact knowledge of our cause and out of the tender bowells of your compassion to thinke upon and pity the distressed estate not onely of us the Lordes poore servants who are without any iust cause cast out from serving at his Altar but also of the Churches of Christ in this land which doe mourne and grone under the burden of humane Traditions Oh that this should be told at Gath or published in the streetes of Ashkelon amongst the daughters of the uncircumcised that under the Governement of so worthily renowned and famous a Prince the Churches of God haue been thus miserably wasted and such a woful havock made in them by vsurping time-serving Prelates as the like hath never been heard of in this land under the Gospell Oh that this should be either said or written in succeeding ages that in the raigne of Noble King Iames whose name shall liue amongst men when he having finished his course shall sleepe with his Fathers so many painefull Preachers of the Gospell even three hundred or there-aboutes haue in one yeere and a litle more been turned out of Christs service onely for refusing such Ceremonies as haue their life breath and being from Poperie and such a Subscription as the like for ought we know hath neuer been urged upon any Church of Christ in any age under a Christian Magistrate there being in the meane time whole swarmes of idle Idole scandalous Popish and Non-resident Ministers tolerated every where amongst us The Prelates haue left no meanes of rigour and extremitie vnassayed for the suppressing of this cause and for the discouraging and daunting of all those that either speake or write for it and yet the glorious evidence of the truth is such that it wanteth no witnesses there being at this day many hundreds of the most painefull profitable Preachers in this Kingdome besides those alreadie turned out which are readie to lose both their Ministery their Maintenance and to expose themselues theirs to all manner of misery rather then they will renounce this Cause and conforme themselues to the Corruptions of the times If therefore there be in the Prelates any loue of the truth or any sparke of desire of the peace and prosperitie of our Churches which is the thing that they so much pretend unto your Maiestie it will now appeare and shew it self and you shall easily discerne it by their indeavour to procure the admittance of this Offer which is the likeliest the readiest way that hitherto hath been thought upon both to finde out the truth and to put a perpetuall end to all these long-continued Controversies Some other thinges there be which we would willingly haue brought to this or the like Triall as namely the Oth ex officio which is a cruell a racking of the minde as the most exquisite Torture can be of the body and sundrie of the late Canons But because they be of another nature and we take them to be not onely contrary to the word of God but also directly against the lawes of the land we mention them not in our Propositions in which we haue endevoured to set downe onely the groundes of all the maine differences betwixt us the Prelats which if they be once throughly debated soundly agreed upon your Maiestie shall see such a blessed vnitie and vniformitie in all the Churches within your Dominions as your owne heart desireth May it therfore please your most excellent Maiestie to reade examine this Offer to weigh in all the partes therof the equitie iustice of it the most certaine advantage that the truth on which side soever it is shall receiue by the acceptance of it may it please you likewise to urge the Prelates whom it deepely concerneth to admitt of it and to secure by Royall protection those that shal be Actors in it who howsoever they are forced to conceale their names in regard of the rigor and severitie of the Prelates will notwithstanding be most willing readie to shew themselues if your Maiestie shall vouchsafe to signifie your gratious pleasure touching the admittance of this Conference If therefore we haue found favour in your Maiesties eyes and if this great cause of Christs be regarded Our humble suite vnto your Highnes is that you would make it knowne by some publike Act that the Offer shal be accepted and they protected by your Royall Authority that haue or shall haue to doe in it So shall we haue occasion every day more and more to intreat the Lord as we haue done and will doe for ever that he will continue vpon your Maiestie with a happy increase all his graces both bodily and spirituall even untill and in the day of Christ The Lord Iesus blesse your Maiestie and your Royall posteritie and graunt vnto you a long and a happie raigne over us the Lord multiplie all his mercyes upon you both for this and a better life and cover with shame the faces of all such as wish you the least evill Amen Your Majesties obedient Subjects most readie to doe your will in all thinges wherein they shall not disobey the will of God Some of the late silenced and deprived Ministers A CHRISTIAN AND MODEST OFFER OF A MOST INDIFFERENT CONFERENCE or disputation about the maine and principall Controversies betwixt the Prelats and the late s●●nced and deprived Ministers in England TENDERED BY SOME OF THE SAID MINISTERS TO THE Archbishops and Bishops and all their adherents Wherein are set downe 1. The Propositions which the Ministers offer to maintaine against the Prelats 2. The Conditions forme and maner of the Conference or Disputation 3. Iust Considerations moving the Ministers to make this Offer 4. An Answer to such opposisions as may be made by the Prelats against yeeiding to the said Offer 1. THE PROPOSITIONS VVHICH THE MINISTERS OFfer to maintaine against the Prelats 1. ALL matters meerely