Selected quad for the lemma: conscience_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
conscience_n	holy_a	sin_n	sin_v	2,051	5	9.4946	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A69195	Certaine demandes with their grounds, drawne out of holy writ, and propounded in foro conscientiæ by some religious gentl. vnto the reverend fathers, Richard archbishop of Canterbury, Richard bishop of London, William bishop of Lincolne, Garvase bishop of Worcester, William bishop of Exeter, & Thomas bishop of Peterbourough wherevnto the said gentl. require that it would please their lordships to make a true, plaine, direct, honest and resolute aunswere.	Bancroft, Richard, 1544-1610.	1605 (1605)	STC 6572.5; ESTC S112734	57,418	70

with by any facultie of humane authoritie Yea and whether any humane dispensation or purgative receipt may be of such validitie and operation in foro conscientiae that it may exempt the patient or the dispencer in foro conscientiae from sinne in case hee iudge his apparell crossings and kneelings to be vncleane For though the Christian Magistrate be perswaded through the Lord Iesus that there is nothing vncleane of it selfe yet to him that iudgeth it vncleane to him it is vncleane And therefore albeit the christian Magistrate may not sinne in his commandement yet may neither Minister nor people be without sinne in their obedience For the conscience only of the cōmander be he never so Christian can not be any warrant for the conscience of him that obeyeth doubtingly But Sirs it is their folly their wilfull peevishnes that having bene so long a time instructed they have no better profited in the knowledg of their christian libertie of the cleanes of the things by my faith if they continew weake longe it were not amisse to bring some of them to the stake Oh! my Lords bona verba quaesumus soft fire maketh sweet malt preach faith we beseech your Lordships but swear not by your faith For by your Lordships favour if the Apostle having aswel by doctrine as by example taught the weak brethren among the Romans and Corinthians of their Christian libertie did neither reprove them of peevishnes wilfulnes or folly neither yet condemne their ignorance of Christian libertie to be a sinne against Christ albeit the same their ignorance consisted only about the vse of meates created for the benefit of mans life wee desire your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt whether ignorance of Christian libertie in the weake of our time which consisteth about the vse of things dedicated to the service of an Idoll may be a sinne against Christ for not vsing the same in the worship of the true God Besides we demand by what rule of holy wtitt your Lordships in these things may condemne an other mans servant or iudge his errour of christian libertie in this case to bee worthy of punishment For seeing ye be not able to make him stand whom God hath left weak not inabled to stand And seeing the Apostle did not prescribe vnto the weake brethren of his time any time for the amendement of their errour of the not vse of things indifferent but did rather bind him self all other for all ages to come by his example never to eate flesh while the world standeth that he might not offend his brother or cause him to fall or to stumble The Apostle we say having appointed no time no not while the world stādeth in this case all others of the same nature we demand by what rule of holy Writt your Lordships may limite a certaine time as by the eight tenth or twelfe moneth for the reformation of iudgment in this but supposed errour of not vsing Popish apparell crossings and kneelings Nay if by the decree canons of the Apostle both Ministers people be infranchised to vse and not to vse these things freely frankly without lett we then demand by what rule of holy Writ it may be lawfull for your Synode by a provinciall ordinance and constitution to change and to turne this their Christian freedome and libertie into a meere slavish servitude and necessitie And therefore we protest from your Synod and avow that your Synode in this case was not guided by the spirite of Christ and that therevpon it followeth your decrees so many of them as abate the edge of charitie whetted vpon the brethren by the Apostles rule or bringing into bondage againe servants manumissed by the authoritie of Christ that the same your decrees are both erroneous in them selves and iniurious to the church of God For vnlesse the world have bene dissolved since the Apostles tyme and that the same world stand not now which stood then or vnles the same be not charitie now and the same freedome now which the Apostle cōmended for charitie and left for freedome or vnles you would have vs winke with our eyes least we should see and stoppe our eares least wee should heare and harden our heartes least we should vnderstand consequently have no faith except it be a Synodall a Provinciall or a Canturbury-church faith we must needes speake both what wee have seene what we have heard and what we have vnderstood out of holy scriptures Namely that some of your Synodall decrees be opposite repugnant to the Apostles both christian charitie and christian libertie For if it be sinne for one brother to do any acte by doing whereof an other brothers conscience is wounded and made weak if also whosoever shall wound the weake conscience of a brother and sinne against a brother doth sinne against Christ then of necessitie be your canons of popish rites ceremonies both vncharitable canons against your brethren sinfull canons against Christ For though it were free for christians to vse Copes Surplices square Cappes Crosses c. civilly vpon their backes heads or foreheads yet if some remayne ignorant of this libertie and thinking them to be vncleane as having bene things offered to the service of an Idoll should by the example of others with wavering consciences enterprise to vse them when inwardly they thinke the vse of them to displease God if in this case we saye men shall sinne against Christ how much more shall they sinne against Christ when they shall vse them in the worship of God against which vse they have many testimonies out of holy Writt seated in their consciences by the finger of God that their vse is altogether vnlawfull in the worship of God On the other side if it be no sinne against Christ for weake brethren not to vse either these or any other relickes monumentes and memorialls of Idolatrie in the service and worship of the true God If also the weake in faith can not vse thē waveringly without sinne against Christ If lastly they have libertie and freedome by the Apostles doctrine not to vse them at all we desire your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy Writt how it may be lawfull in foro conscientiae to bring weake brethren before the seates of Magistrates to excommunicate them to revile them to speak all maner of evill against them for vsing their Apostolicall freedome for being charitable and for not committing sinne But Sirs by your patience they be not handled after any such maner simply and only for not vsing the Surplice not making a crosse not kneeling in the act of receyving the communion but for contempt of not vsing and making the same and not kneeling at the comandement of the christian Magistrate whom not to obey in things indifferent is to sinne against Christ and for this sinne they ought to be excommunicated c. Though this be a Maxime in some

Lordes Supper doing Myracles and praying by the Apostles Evangelistes Prophetes c. without any proper ministeriall garmentes we question thus In asmuch as Iohn Baptist did both crye in the wildernes and baptise in Iorden having vpon him none other proper ministeriall garmentes but onely his ordinarie garment of Camells hayre with a girdle of a skinne about his loynes And seeing the Apostles did neither preache the worde nor administer the Sacramentes nor doe myracles amonge the people in any other garmentes then in their vsuall and ordinarie garmentes And besides seeing the Apostles did not institute or commaunde any proper ministeriall garmentes for their successors namely for Bishoppes Pastours and Teachers to minister in seeing we say these things can not be prooved out of holy writt to be otherwise our desire is to be satisfied from your Lordships by some holy rule of faith why Bishops Pastors and Teachers so long after the Apostles tymes should be commaunded to weare any other forme or manner of garmentes in their holy ministrations then such their ordinarie and vsuall garmentes being comelie and cleanly garmentes as by custome or law of the Countrey they vsually weare For if all ordinarie garmentes be sanctified a like to minister and people by the worde of God and prayer as all ordinarie meates and drinkes be we demand what reason your Lordships can alleadge out of holy writt that the publike service accomplished by the Minister in his ordinarie apparell should not be as acceptable to the Lord as is the publique service performed by the people in their ordinarie garmentes And if your Lordships can affoord vs no reason out of holy Writt why offering vp of prayers preaching the Worde or administring the Sacramentes should be lesse acceptable to the Lord when the same are performed in an ordinarie garment and not in a proper ministeriall garment we then demaunde whether your Lordships by any rule of holy Writ can prove vnto vs that the worde preached Sacraments administred and prayers offered vp in a proper ministerial rather then in an ordinary garment can be of more efficacie profit or edification vnto men For as the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withall so must all things which are done in the Church bee done to the vse benefite and profite of the Church Vnto these two latter questions if your Lordships shall answere that the ministration of the Worde and Sacramentes can not be proved by holy Writ to bee in it owne nature either more acceptable to the Lord or of more efficacie profite and edification vnto men when the same is accomplished by a Minister wearing only his ordinarie garment And yet notwithstanding shall tell vs that the not wearinge of a proper ministeriall garment in the service of prayer preaching the Worde and ministring the Sacraments may be both displeasing to God hurtful to the people vpon circumstance contempt of the Churches or Magistrates commaund Then we replie and affirme that you begge the thing in question driving vs backe agayne to seeke your resolution of that doubt which we moved above in the second principall demand For vnlesse the Church and sovereigne Christian Magistrate be inabled by holy Writt to commaund a proper ministerial garment vnder the Gospell the not wearing of such a proper ministeriall garment commaunded by the Magistrate or by the Church can be neither an offence to God nor hurtfull to the people Besides if neither the Church nor Magistrate have any certaine rule out of holy Writt for the resolution of faith in commanding a proper ministeriall garment Then lyeth the same Ministeriall garment vnder a iust suspition of abomination as being a thing invented by man And then also how should a Minister beeing bound to take for his marke the only will of God as it is manifested opened vnto him in the word be excusable in foro conscientiae if in the execution of his ministerie he may fashion him selfe to the invention of man But the preaching of the worde of God is of greater moment and importance then that the same should be left of for the not vsing of a proper ministeriall garment That is true indeed say wee if a Minister by the vse of such a garment should not sinne But that a Minister not fully perswaded in his minde of the lawfull vse of a proper ministeriall garment may weare it doubtingly and so sinne to the end he may preache the Worde we doubte greatly whether your Lordships bee able to prove this out of holy Writt of this we pray your resolutions For how should a man doe evill that good may come thereby when as the Scripture teacheth vs that his damnation is iust that so doeth The not preaching of the word then being no sinne in a Minister when for the keeping of a good cōscience in not vsing a proper ministeriall garment he is commanded by a superiour power not to preach the word we demand herevpon whether your Lordships sinne not rather in pressing then the Minister in refusing this kinde of Ministeriall garment And seeing wee are fallen by occasion vpon this comparison of preaching the worde and wearing a proper ministeriall garment we pray your Lordships patiently to heare and quietly to answere our demandes Our demand then is whether in your iudgements the preaching of the word be not in it owne nature more precious more needfull and more profitable for the people then can bee the wearing of a proper ministeriall garment If your Lordships should preferre the wearing of such a ministeriall garment to the preaching of the worde in this case if we should hould our peace the very stones might cry out shame vpon our faces for we are taught out of holy Writt that Marie was commended before Martha for that shee sitting at the feete of Iesus to heare him preach the word had chosen the better parte even one thing that was necessary and which might not be taken from her If your Lordships answere as the trueth is that the preaching of the word is more precious needfull and profitable for the Church then is the wearing of a proper ministeriall garment Then wee demand why grave learned and Godly Preachers whom the King him selfe confesseth to love and to honor have bene put to the worse commanded to silence suspended excommunicated for the not wearing of such a Ministeriall garment when as notwithstanding light lascivious and vnlearned Ministers no-preachers if so be they have worne a proper ministeriall garment have bene suffered quietly to enioy their functions and their benefices But all Preachers were never silenced only certaine Preachers not submitting them selves to the wearing of a ministeriall garment according to the orders and lawes of the Church are displaced Well bee it so what other thing doeth this argue but that the not wearing of a ministerall garment is reputed to bee a sinne more haynous then is the not preaching of the word But there are

learning non solent quae superabundant vitiare scripturas yet by your Lordships favour your c. swelleth to high and gulleth the passages of a softe spirit overmuch your argument also of christian Magistracy at the least three times already vrged is in this place more then superabundant as amounting above the third vnto a fourth degree of comparison But to the poyntes And first because as earst hath bene said it was the decree and supplication of your Synod that begate this commandement and not this commandement that travayled and brought your Synodall decree and supplication to the birth touching which your Synodall decree for the vse of these ornaments rites ceremonies by the weak what els is there to be added then that we deny againe what in effect more then once twice we have in this behalfe denied before namely granting these thinges in their owne nature to be indifferent and that they may be vsed in the service of God by them that be strong in faith have knowledge of their indifferencie neverthelesse we deny that by any Decree of the Church they may be appointed to be vsed by the weake and them that have no knowledge of their indifferencie For this we have learned of the nature of things indifferent if the cōscience be strong that the things be good if the conscience be weake that they bee evill not in regarde of their owne nature but in regarde of the conscience of him that iudgeth them to be evill For as it is not meate it selfe but the vse of meate wherevnto the Apostle would have men sticke so is it not apparell a Crosse or a Ceremonie wherevpon the servantes of Christ are to cast their eyes that they may not be reprehended by their consciences rightly guyded for the vse of that thing which they vse And how should a conscience bee rightly guyded in the thing which he vseth vnles he have grounde out of Gods worde for the thinge which he vseth But he hath you will say a commaundement of God to obey the higher powers in the vse of thinges indifferent This is true in deed saye we if they having for the guyde of their consciences the holy worde of God shall iudge the thinges and the vse of the things for the service wherevnto they bee commaunded to be indifferent but they being not fully perswaded in their myndes both of the indifferencie of the thinges and of the vse of the things in that service wherevnto they bee commaunded how can your Lordships proove that in this case the Church may decree and the Magistrate command them to do an act in the doing whereof they shall commit sinne yea and which they can by no meanes avoyde if in doing the thing commanded they stand in doubt For he that doubteth is condemned in that he doth because he doeth it not of faith And what soever is not of faith is sinne Wherefore because no canon nor decree of the Church can cleanse a mans conscience of the weaknes of faith or poure strength into the same that he sinne not we affirme that every decree and canon of your Synod which giveth an occasion of offence and emboldeneth the weak in faith to sinne by the vse of these rites and ceremonies in the worship of God is a Canon and is a Decree conteyninge matter in the substance of it contrary and repugnant to the doctrine of the Apostle And that therefore it is no sinne for any brother weake in fayth not to obey the same though at the request of your Synod it hath pleased our Christian Magistrate to inioyne him therevnto because the ground-worke of your Decree being sandy the buylding of the Magistrate can not surely and firmely stande This your Lordships argument therefore of the lawfull vse of indifferent things by commandement of the christian Magistrate for orders sake is but a begging of the point in question For wee hold that no church nor christian Magistrate can decree or impose any rites and ceremonies being relickes monuments or memorialls of idolatrie to be vsed no not for orders sake in the worship of the true God because the vse of all relickes monumentes and memorialles of idolatrie in divine worship is not a thing not only not indifferēt but a thing in all respectes meerely and absolutely vnlawfull And therefore it importeth your Lordships to proove vnto vs by some holy Writt the contrary of that which we affirme namely that the vse of all Relickes Monumentes and Memorialles of Idolatrie as thinges indifferent for orders sake may be decreed by the Church and inioyned by the Christian Magistrate in the worship of God what we have alleadged out of holy Writt for the proofe of our generall negative your Lordships have seene and read And now we wayte and exspect that you would produce your stronge reasons for the proofe of your generall affirmative Our generall negative is this No Reliques Monumentes or Memorialls of Idolatrie may lawfully be decreed by the Church or inioyned by the Christian Magistrate to be vsed by the ministers and servants of Christ as indifferent rites and ceremonies for orders sake in the worship of God And if none Then not your Copes Surplices Crosses c. Your Lordships affirmation All Reliques Monumentes and Memorialls of Idolatrie may lawfullie be decreed by the Church and inioyned by the Christian Magistrate to be vsed by the Ministers servants of Christ as indifferēt rites ceremonies for orders sake in the worship of God And if all why not then a Friers coule for an Archbishop a Monkes hood for a Bishop a shaven crowne for a Deane and a shaven chinne for an Archdeacon But now alas alas to adde and to speake but one worde touching the vse of these rites c. appointed by your Synod for orders sake may not we and all the Churches take vp a complaynt and lamentably cry saying Alas alas what Was it not possible for your sacred Synod assembled as you say in the name of Christ but that the same must decree popish and Idolatrous rites and ceremonies to be still continued in the church for orders sake Or was it not possible for your sacred Synod assembled as you say in the name of Christ but that the same must needes devise and decree such rites and ceremonies for orders sake as by the vse whereof your weake brethren the servantes of Christ can not be but tempted and captiously insnared Or was it not possible for your Synod to have vsed their iudgement but to the perill of the soules of their brethren but to put occasions of falling and of stumbling before their brethren But by your patience Sirs we abhorre the popish pollutions of the Surplice of the Crosse and of the Idolatrous kneeling to a piece of bread And as we take not our garmentes rites and ceremonies from the papistes but from their betters so we professe the detestation of their superstitious abuses and restore them to their ancient

doe wee desire your Lordships resolutions herein because there is no maner of solemnitie signe figure or ornament of a crosse required by the book of cōmon prayer to be vsed in that administration of Baptisme which in the same book is intituled private Baptisme For if Baptisme without any reall solemnitie or actuall ornament of a crosse or of the signe of a crosse may bee administred privately how much more without these humane solemnities and ornamentes might baptisme be administred publiquelie There being then in the Church of England two formes maners of the administration of Baptisme the one private the other publike the one with a crosse the other without a crosse and both of these concluded by your late Canons not to be corrupt superstitious or vnlawfull by meanes also whereof there is to be seene no cōformitie or vniformitie betwene having solemnities ornaments of crosses signes of crosses in publike baptisme betwene the not having solemnities and ornaments of crosses and signes of crosses in private baptisme we pray your Ll. to resolve vs out of holy writ whether these ornaments solemnities of crosses signes of crosses for the stability of publike peace quiet in the church the not enforcing of any mans conscience with the vse of the crosse might not aswell be left out in the administratiō of publike as it is in the administratiō of private baptisme For whether respect be had to the brethren offended or made weake by the vse therof or whether we regard the not cōfirming strenghtening of the superstitious in their error there is farr much more danger like to ensue both to the one sorte to the other by the vse of it in publike then in private Baptisme by reason that the assembly generally is evermore great in the one and never but small in the other But to let passe this deformitie of crossing not crossing in publik private baptisme we will prosecute some few demands not yet moved concerning the feigned imaginarie and ayrie crossing vsed in publike Baptisme And first we pray your Lordships to resolve vs out of holy writ how a Minister in foro conscientiae can be cleare without sinne when as in the same publike continewed act of Gods worship imaginarily feignedly he shal affirme the doing of a thing w ch indeed in trueth he doth not ne possibly can do if the Minister then without some instrumēt chalk rudle or such like can make no crosse vpon the childs forehead and yet shall say as the booke prescribeth that he signeth him with the signe of the crosse what a grosse fitten call ye that To affirme that the passing of the Ministers hand thūme or finger croswise in the ayre over the childs forehead is to make a crosse vpon the childs forehead that the same passing in the ayre is also the signe of a crosse this we say to affirme is as if a man should assevere that the flying of a bird in the ayre the slyding of a serpent vpon a stone leaveth a bird and the signe of a bird in the ayre a serpent and the signe of a serpent vpon a stone And to say that there is an invisible crosse or a signe of an invisible signe of a crosse remaining in the ayre over the childes forehead how absurd and without all reason that saying is we leave to your Lordships considerations For if it be vnpossible to make a crosse or the signe of a crosse vpon the running water much more vnpossible is it to make a crosse or the signe of a crosse in the subtile and replenishing ayre wherefore vnlesse your Lordships can prove by some rule of holy Writt that every Minister is indowed with power from above to make crosses and signes of crosses which be invisible and that these invisible signes and crosses be also invisible tokens in the childes forehead of his being not ashamed of Christ crucified of his manfull fighting c. we demand what good plea in foro conscientiae your Lordships can frame to dischardge the Minister from being guilty of a thrice feigned imaginary lying crosse we say thrice faigned at the least First we receive and doe signe thee secondly with the signe and thirdly of the Crosse And what if we saide fourthly in token for what token can the child or his witnesse in his name receive keepe when as neither he nor they have any crosse any signe or any token of a crosse given or delivered vnto them at all which maner of crossing signing and tokening may well bee compared to our atturnies proceeding by signes and profers signes and profers when indeed by such their pleadings they hasten not but delay their clyents causes only making signes and profers signes and profers as though by this meanes they hastened to an end when as indeed they mind nothing lesse But to speake no more of the Ministers feigned signes and profers of making crosses signes of crosses in the ayre vpon or over the childs forehead Wee demand whether not to be ashamed to confesse the faith of Christ crucified whether not to be ashamed manfully to fight vnder his banner against sinne the world and the divell whether not to be ashamed to continewe Christes faithfull souldier and servant to his lifes end We demand we say whether these three graces be not all every of them inward invisible and spirituall graces yea or no If your Lordships answere as the trueth is that these graces be all spiritual invisible inward graces then because by the book of common prayer so the Minister make a crosse it is not materiall of what forme the crosse be made we demand by what rules of holy writ your Lordships can prove that the signe of the crosse of saint Iohns of Ierusalem the signe of saint Andrews crosse the signe of saint Peters crosse the signe of the crosse made after the Greeke T. or like the Hebrew χ. or like the Greeke X. or the signe of any other crosse for there be divers other formes of crosses can be a token of these spirituall and invisible graces if so be they were engraven with a Diamond vpon the childes forehead If your Lordships answere affirmatively that the signe of saint Andrewes crosse of saint Iohns crosse of saint Peters crosse or the signe of any other crosse made by the Minister vpon the childes forehead is a token of these inward spiritual and invisible graces then we demand whether your Lordships ascribe not like power to every minister for the trāsubstantiation of every invisible crosse feinedly made in the administration of Baptisme to the forme of a true visible crosse as the Pope attributeth to every Prieste for the transubstantiation of every piece of bread wherevpon he bloweth at the Altar into the Body of Christ or if your Lordships answere because there is no crosse sensibly to be seene but intelligiblie to be vnderstood that the imaginary feigned ayrie

then tradition or commaundment of man is only pleasinge vnto man touching which latter kinde of decencie and order the same being but humane we demaund if either Ministers or people bee not fully perswaded in minde that this humane decencie and order is by some generall rule of holy Writt aswell pleasing vnto God as the same by some law of man is knowne to be well pleasing vnto man we demaund we say in this case whether Minister or people in foro conscientiae be obliged to vse this so called and commaunded decencie or order yea or no For albeit every soule be subiect to the higher powers neverthelesse for the avoyding of error and that the conscience of every soule may be vpright with God in her subiection to the ordinance of man the conscience must take direction not from the onely will and authoritie of man but from the only Writt and authoritie of God And therefore as every Magistrate ought to be fully perswaded in his conscience of his commaund before he conscionably may require that to be obeyed which he commaundeth even so it be hoveth every soule before he obey to be perswaded fully in his minde that the thing cōmanded ought for conscience sake to be obeyed because the same is approved by the holy word of God For otherwise howsoever outwardly he may serve and please the Magistrate yet inwardly in the spirite he can never be assured that in this case he shal serve God because the Magistrates commandement simply considered in it self is not any true spirituall guide for the conscience of any soule to be ledd and conducted by Now then to your Lordships former question whether the Church and supreme christian Magistrate ought not to sitt as soveraigne Iudge vpon the conscience of every soule about the determination of all decencie and order to be kept by that soule your Lordships by this our discourse easily may perceave that we may well answere your demand if we propound but one question to another And therefore we demaund who shal be sovereigne Iudge over that soule and cōscience that commandeth decencie order in the church if not only the holy word of God alone And if the christian Magistrate must for the safetie of his soule have some rule of holy writt to be his soveraigne Iudge for the thing that he cōmandeth how should not the christiā subiect in like sorte for the safetie of his soule have some word of faith to be his sovereigne Iudge for his subiectiō in the thing which he obeyeth for so shall not the conscience of him that commandeth be any more a sovereigne Iudge over him that obeyeth then shall the conscience of him that obeyeth bee sovereigne Iudge over him that commandeth But Sirs if this be so what soverainitie doe ye yeeld vnto the Christian Magistrate above the subiect or what shall his authority avayle when every soule commanded to be subiect to his power shall examine the validitie of the lawfulnesse of his command shall not every rule of holy writ wherevpon the christian Magistrate doeth ground his conscience for the thing commanded be a good and sufficient ground for the conscience of every one in the thing that is obeyed Vnto this we answer that the Christian Magistrates conscience can not be any sufficient discharge for the conscience of him that obeyeth vnlesse your Lordships bee able to prove vnto vs by some place of holy Writ that the Magistrate touching the lawfulnes of the thing commanded can not erre For every soule aswell of the subiect must answere give an accompt for him selfe vnto God for the thing wherein he obeyeth as the Magistrate must for the thing which he cōmandeth for the good and rightfull obedience and command whereof he hath appointed his holy word alone to be the only Iudge aswell vnto the subiect as vnto the Magistrate or ells what soverainitie should the word of God beare over the cōscience of a subiect if so be the Magistrates conscience command should be the soveraigne Iudge over the subiects soule sway the subiects conscience And yet by this meanes doe we not take away the due preeminence and authoritie which by the holy Worde of God is given to the civill Magistrate over the subiect For in that that every soule is commanded to be subiect for conscience sake to the higher powers this scripture by your Lordships patience as we take it is to be vnderstood not for the conscience of him that cōmandeth but for the conscience of him that obeyeth because the subiect without the breach of his conscience can not contemne the civill governement which God hath appointed not to be over the soule but to be over the body And indeed to establish the command or conscience of the civill Magistrate to be the squire plūmet of every subiects conscience were to wrest the holy Scriptures to establish as the Antichristianites do a tyranny over the consciences of subiects Thus much touching that later kind of humane decencie and order before spoken of And as concerning that kind of decency order for the which there may be testimonies found in holy Writ that they be pleasing vnto God we affirme that the church and Christian Magistrate ought not only to be commanders and preservers of the same but that both Ministers and people also ought to be followers and embracers thereof Nay we say more yea we affirme that every humane decencie order whatsoever ought to stoupe and give place vnto that order and decencie for the which testimonies are to be found in holy writ that the same be pleasing vnto God And therfore we demand by what rule of holy writ your Lordships can prove your late convocationall canons to have allowance from the spirit of Christ when as by the same ye have cōmanded a decencie order meerly humane precisely to be observed in the church insteed of that decencie order which at the beginning was in the church which being pleasing vnto God could not be but divine It had bene in our iudgments a fact not simply cōmendable if your Lordships had but invented and added an humane decencie and order vnto that which hath warrant from holy writt to be divine but wholy to disseyse the Church of that decencie and order which by testimony of holy Writt is witnessed to bee pleasing vnto God and to give your owne devises decencies and orders liverie and seysin this to doe we demand whether in foro conscientiae it be not a double sinne and in curiae Christianitatis deserve not a double censure But Sirs by your patience what is that Divine order and what is that Divine decencie whereof we have disseysed the Churches and what decencie and order of our owne have we put in seysin thereof By your Lordships favour before we make full answer vnto this your question we demand whether your Lordships bee able to prove out of holy Writt that the

ecclesiasticall or temporall ibid. pag. 252. Yea and moreover we beleeve if any should impugne or gaine-say this your power of making spirituall and ecclesiasticall decrees in your convocatiō not to belong properly to your ministeriall power which you have by your divine offices in the church that you would then fly for the interpretation of the statute 1. Elizab. to our late Queenes iniunctions wherby it is declared that nothing was is or shal be meant or intēded by the oath required to have any other duety allegeance or band then was acknowledged to be due to the most noble Kinges of famous memorie K. H. the eight hir Maiesties Father or to K. Ed. 6. hir Maiesties brother And that the Kings and Queenes of this Realme may not challendge authoririe and power of any ministery of divine offices in the Churches But vnder God to have soveraintie rule of all maner of persons borne within hir Realmes so as no other foreigne power shal or ought to have any superioritie over them vpon this iniunction we say we build our former credence that your Lordships iudge your only persons and the persons of the rest of the Clergie not the ministerie of your divine offices or any parte thereof to be vnder the obedience of the Kings power vnto which ministerie also of divine offices you attribute right of ordeyning and making canons rites and ceremonies in the Church as a right properly incident and appertaining to that ministery not of doctrine but of divine governement which you challendge to be due vnto you as vnto Ministers and Officers appointed to rule and governe the Church vnder Christ by the holy Scriptures And therefore we pray your Lordships henceforwards to put vs vnto no more paine to answere this your argument of Kingly and supreame authoritie For we beleeve assuredly if Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons and the rest of the clergie assembled by the Kings writt by their deliberate counsaile voluntary and vnconstrayned will had not in their Synod decreed the vse of Copes Surplices Crosses square Cappes Tippets and such trash or if they had not by the president of their assembly most instantly supplicated the King to command the vse of these things thus ordeined by them selves we perswade our selves assuredly that the King by his absolute regall and supreame power would never have constrayned Archbishops Bishops Deanes Archdeacons c. to have vndergone the yoke of these ceremonies for the King right well knoweth that in so doing he should not have walked in the wayes of the Godly kings of Iudah then whose holy example to followe his Highnes hath protested to desire nothing more Neither for any other purpose as it seemeth vnto vs by your late speaches in the eares of the King no ceremony no Bishop doe your selves presse these ceremonies then that they should be in your owne hands as crosier staves to stay vp from falling the tottering walles of your Lordly Iurisdictions And yet because we never read in holy Writt that any ceremony was ever planted by our heavenly Father to bee a leanetoo for any Bishops of Gods planting or that the vnplanting of an humane ceremony would be the vnplanting of any of Gods Bishops what should we gather from hence but that your Lordships bee no Bishops of Gods planting for Bishops planted by the hande of God in the Vineyard of Christ be so fast sett and so deeply rooted that by no blast or storme of humane ceremonies they can be blowne vp And thus much touching your argument of the Kings cōmandement for orders sake As for the indifferencie of the things commanded the same hath already bene handled in an other place but touching the last part of your exception that the vse of these things is not commanded to the end that men should be grieved offended fall stumble sinne destroy them selves we reiect this as an impertinent insufficient answere to our demand for our demand tendeth not to insinuate that we think that these things be commanded to the end that every man by the vse of them should sinne but our demand concerneth the vncharitable commandement of the vse of these things imposed vpon a weake brother which weake brother by the vse of these things notwithstanding the commandement can not but full but stumble but give an offence but sinne What because of the commandement No but by reason of his weaknes which the commandement hath not power to ridd and take from him And therefore vnles your Lordships by some learning taught you in holy Writt can informe your selves our Christian Magistrate that your Synode in the Apostles absence is placed in the Apostolike chaire and being so placed hath also received by the Apostles doctrine an Apostolike authoritie to commande those thinges in his absence which he expresly forbade in his presence wee doubt greatly whether your convocationall assembly can charitably by Gods Law command the weake in faith to eate meate sacrificed vnto Idols and so by consequence to weare a Surplice a Cope a square Cap a shaven Crowne a Fryers Coule or a Monckes Hood yea or no Nay sithence the Apostle hath directly and in plaine termes forbidden the strong in faith the eating of meate sacrificed vnto Idolls because of him that shewed it and for the conscience not of thine but of that other which sayeth this is sacrificed vnto Idols and if withall hee have taught that it is evill for a man to eate with offence we demand by what rule of holy Writt your Lordships can assure the conscience of our Christian Magistrate and the soules of your assembly in convocation that his Highnes and they shall doe charitably vprightly and not sinne in the sight of the Lord in case by a commandement ye impose a necessitie of eating meates or vsing things of like indifferencie vpon the weake which the weake by the Apostles doctrine have free libertie nay rather which by the Apostles doctrine they be taught so longe as they be weake not to vse Besides if eating drinking appareling crossing or kneeling doubtingly without faith or with offence be sinnes against the soule defilements of the soule we then pray your Ll. to deale plainly with vs divinely to teach vs whether it be an Apostolike charitie to cōmand the doing of a thing which can not be done either by the weak in faith but doubtingly or by the strong in faith without offence giving an occasion to fall or putting a stumbling block before his brother But Sirs by your patience the Christian Magistrate doeth not inioyne neither doeth the Clergie in their convocation decree that the Ministers or people should weare a Surplice make a Crosse or kneele doubtingly and without faith only his commandement is that they kneele that they make a crosse and that they weare a Surplice Yea by your Lordships favour we demand whether such their doubting such their being without faith can either be purged by any glister or be dispensed