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B06481 A vulgar or popvlar discourse. Shewing that the warre [raised by the two] houses, fomented chiefly [by the Londo]ners ... and others ... disaffected to monarchicall government is not ... in defence of the ... Protestant religion ... the laws and liberties of the kingdom ... but rather destructive to them all. / Written dialogue-wise, by Irenaeus ... against Eristes ... Alvey, Yeldard. 1643 (1643) Wing V750; ESTC R186086 30,959 55

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the Land entrust Subjects with the Sword against their Soveraigne for by the Law of the Land all we that be Subjects above the age of eighteen yeares are bound to sweare Allegiance to our Soveraigne Lord the Ki●g There was an O th enacted Anno 3 Jacobi wherein ●e that t ke● it swe●re● That he will bear Faith and true Allegi●nce to His M j●sty H●● He●res and Successors c. And Him ●nd them will de●en● to the utmost of hi● power against all Con●p●●icies and A●●mpts whatsoever whi●h shall be made agai●st H●● or t●●r Persons their cro●n dignity c. A●d it was fur●●●r enacted by Parliament 7 Jacobi That al● and ●very P●rson and P●●so●s as well Ecclesi●sticall ●s C●vill of wh●t Sta●e Dignity Qu●lity or D●gree ●o●ver ●e o● they b● above the age of eighteen yeares in that Act mentioned shall take the said Oath And if all the Sub●ects in the Land above eighteen ye●res old have as by Law they are bound taken the s●id O●th unlesse they will wittingly and willingly forsweare themselves they must with all their power defend the Kings Person and Dignity and by consequence they may not oppose either or doe such things as may endanger His Person and lessen His Authority and Dignity Neither may they be Newters and sit still suffering others to wrong him but they must stand up to maintaine his right and to vindicate his wrong And they must defend him by purse bodily service or what way soever they can else they are forsworne Eristes But may we not sometimes lawfully deny obedience to the Kings verball or Personall Commands Irenaeus Yes in some cases it is not only lawfull but necessary to disobey the command of the King as when God commands one thing and the King in a menacing and threatning way commands another then that Speech is seasonable Da veniam Imperator tu carcerem ille Gehennam minatur Give leave O Emperour thou threatnest my body with imprisonment but God can cast both my Soule and Body into Hell the worst and most darkesome Prison of all others In such a case we may and must neglect our duty to our Prince rather then forget our duety to God Nam Regum timendorum in proprios Greges Reges in ipsos Imperium est Jovis For Kings though they be Superiours in regard of their Subjects yet are they inferiour unto God Omne sub regno graviore regnum est Every Kingdom on Earth is under a greater in Heaven And the Apostolicall Canon Rom. 13.1 which wills us to be subject to the higher powers before the lower amongst men doth by Analogy instruct us to be principally subject to that highest power by whom the Powers on Earth are ordained and set in Order one above another When Pharaoh King of Egypt commanded the Hebrew Midwives to strangle the Hebrew Male Children in the birth they feared God and did not the command of the King Exod. 1.17 When Nebuchadnezz●r having erected a Golden Image commanded all people to fall down and worship it under penalty of being cast into the hot fiery ●●rna ● ●hadracke M●sech and Abednego refused to d●● the command of the King because the Law of God forbad them to doe it Dan. 3.18 When Darius had signed a Decree That none should make any Petition to God save only to him for certaine dayes Daniel notwithstanding the Decree went into his House and his Chamber Windowes ●eing opened towards J●rusalem kneeled upon his knees three times a day and prayed to his God contrary to the signed Decree and exp●esse command of the King Dan. 6.10 The seven Brethren though Antiochus Epiphanes or rather Epimanes threatned to torment them with scourges and whippes yet they would not by all the threatnings and exquisite torment● that ●e could use be compelled to taste of Swine flesh because it was against the Law of their God 1 Ma●ab 7.1 And Julians Christian Souldiers though they readily sought his B●ttells and obeyed him when he commanded thing● lawfull yet Quando veniebatur ad causam Christi Aug in Psa 124. non ag● os●ebant nisi illum qui in Caelo erat quando volebat ut Idola colerent aut thurificarent praeponebant illi Deum When they came to the cause of Christ they would acknowledge no Lord but him that is in Heaven when he commanded them to worship Idolls ●o sacrifice and burne I●cense to his Idoll gods they preferred God before their Prince And th● case was clearly resolved long since by the Apostles That when the Kings command c●osseth the command of God then it is absolutely better for us to obey God than man Acts 5.29 Yet here we must take heed first that we be not led by fancies and groundlesse imaginations but be sure that what the King commands is against Gods Law Secondly That denying obedience we doe it in all humility without scandall and contempt Thirdly That yet we be content to obey passively without resisting the higher power For even then when we cannot with a safe Conscience obey the command of the King because we have received a cou●ter-command from God we must be subject to him notwithstanding and not dare to rise up against him Nam qui i●s●rgit in Ch●istum Domini Psal 2.1 insurgit in Dominum Christi For he that riseth up against the Lord● Anointed riseth up against the Lord by whom he was Anoynted The least Injury Numb 16.11 1 Sam. 8.7 Indignity Affront of Disgrace that is done to the King whom God hath appointed his immediate Deputy and Vicegerent on Earth to Rule and Governe in his place doth in the reflex extend and redound ●o God himselfe the Author of all Rule and Government and by consequence it must needs be an hainous and hatefull sinne in the sight of God for Subjects to rise up against their Soveraigne though a Nero a bloody persecuter of the Faith much more against a Charles a gracious Defender of the Faith Amb. lib 3. epist 33. S●int Am●rose highly commended the people of Mill●in w●en there was hot persecution in the City for the V●yce they then used Rogamus Auguste non pugnamus We om●●nt O Emperour we sight not perhaps you will say t●ey durst not yes Non ti●emus tamen rogamus We se●● not the Emperours Forces yet we entreat The like Spe●ch S●int Bernard useth in an Epistle of his to Lewis the French King Stabimus pugnahimus usque ad mortem si ita o●o●tuerit pro matre nostra Ecclesia Bern. Epist 221. sed Armis quibu● licet non scutis gladiis sed precibus fletibusque ad Deu● We will stand and sight for our Mother the Church if need be unto death with such Armes and Weapon● as lawfully we may not with Sword and Tar●et but with Prayers and Teares unto God Tertul. Apol. cap. 37. And Ter● 〈◊〉 in his Apologetick tells u● That the Ancient Chur●hes 〈◊〉 time when they had Heathen and Pers●●●ng Emp●●●rs
Calvin Institut lib. 4. cap. 20. Sect. 29. If we be cruelly oppressed by a cruell Prince if we be polled and pillaged by a covetous or luxurious Prince if we be negligently governed by a carelesse Prince if for godlinesse we be as God be thanked we are not persocuted by an Impious and sacrilegious Prince let us in the first place remember our sins which no doubt are corrected by God with such scourges this will be a means to bridle our impatience with humility then let this thought come into our minds that it is not in our power without Gods help to mend or remedy such evils and therefore in the last place it remaines that we should implore the help of God in whose hands are the hearts of Kings and inclinations of Kingdoms Have you any other coulourable pret●nces which may in some sort seemingly excuse though in no sort justifie your taking up Arms to resist the King who is the highest power in this Kingdom next under God and therefore cannot be resisted without perill of damnation Rom. 13.2 Eristes You mistake Irenaeus we doe not resist the King or his legall power but only his verball personall illegall command which we may doe without danger of incurring the penalty threatned by the Apostle to such as resist the higher power Rom. 13.2 Irenaeus The Apostle in that Chapter commands all who live under authority to be subject to the higher power and proves by five perswasive convincing reasons that they ought to be subject First ab Authore from the Author of all power qui● non est potestas nisi a Deo because there is no power but of God Secondly he proveth that all must be subject to the higher power a bono ordinis from the good of order quia potestates quae sunt a Deo ordinatae sunt be●●use the power● that be are ordeined and set in order by God one above another and we should be Authors of confusion and perverters of that comely order which God who is the God of order and not of confusion hath ordeined if we should refuse to live in subjection unto him whom he hath appointed to rule over us Thirdly that we are to be subject to the higher power he proves a malo culpae because it is a sin to resist the Supreame Magistrate or the higher power for he that resisteth the power resisteth the Ordinance of God vers 2. Beware then how thou resist thy Prince upon any pretence or take p●rt with such as doe resist him by force of Arms for his Person is sacred his ordination divine and cannot without sin be resisted Fourthly that we must be subject to the higher power the Apostles proves a malo panae f●om the evill of punishment b●●●use they that resist and will not be subject shall unavoidably and deserv●●ly receive to themselves crim● ju●gement if not tempor●ll in this world yet most certainly eternall in the world to come unlesse they repent Lastly be proves that we must be subject to the higher powers a bono se●ie●atis from the good of Society because we that live in a civill Society receive and reape much good by their government they are the Ministers of God for our good Were there no King appointed to rule over u● we should soon see a generall Ar●xy Disorder and Confusion in all est●tes in the Church such abuses as would m●ke us to abhorre the Sanctuary of the Lord in the Common-wealth such hai●ous enormities and impieties a● would vex our Soules to see and behold them In the 17. 18. 19. Chapters of the Booke of Judges there ●●e may read of disorder upon disorder and still in the close this is alledged as the chiefe cause of all those disorders That there was no King in Israel to curb and restraine the insolent unruly passions of men but every one was permitted to doe what seemed good in his own eyes and no wonder that all things in the Church and State were then out of order when there was no King or no authority in the Supreame Magistrate to keep men in due order by all which it evidently appeares that Praestat sub malo Principe esse quam sub nullo It is better to live under the government of an evill or Tyrannicall Prince then to have none at all to govern u● Wherefore because all power is of God because the powers that be are tetagmenai ordained and set in order by God because it is a sin to resist the higher powers because judgement both temporall and eternall is the punishmen● of that sin lastly because they are the Ministers of God for our good therefore as the Apostle infers we must of necessity be subject unto them not only for feare of the temporall sword or in●u●ring their wrath and disple●su●e who cannot but be angry and much displeased wit●●hose that resist them but al●o for Conscie●ce sake tow●rd● God who hath ●id a ●ye upon the Co●science of all ●nferiou● o p●rsor●● t●e D●●y of Subjection to their Sup●●●ours y●● t●oug● t●ey be such a● t●● hig●er powe●●●en wer● Tyr●●t to their own Su●●●● and Perse●me● of Christian Pro-fessour and prose●● Enemies of the C●ristian faith He that wa● Empe●our when Saint Paul wro●e that Epistle to the Romans was Nero a Tyrant a v●le an● violent opposer of Christ●●n Re●●gion Nero saith le●●ed Moulin was a Monster in nature the shame of humane ●●●d al●● first Emperour that began to persecute the Church neverthelesse the Apostle Rom. 13. speaking of that power which was then in being saith that it was ordeined by God and that whosoever resisted the same resisted the ordinance of God and by their resistance did deservedly pull upon themselves damnation and if in the Apostles judgement it was a sin deserving damnation to resist Nero a bloody Tyrant and cruell persecuter of Christians what a haynous sin are they guilty of and what a judgement doe they deserve that resist His sacred Majesty our Soveraigne Lord King Charles who is the most gracious and religious King in Christendom Eristes I tell you we neither resist the King nor His Legall power but only His illegall will and command Irenaeus First are you sure that all or any of the Kings commands which you withstand are illegall if they be not then Boroughs your chiefe Advocate freely grants That there is no help left you but either to fly or passively to obey them though he command you to obey such Laws as be sinfull If they be every way illegall neither agreeable to the Law of God nor the Laws of the Land then you may doe well to enforme us how you may with a safe and satisfied Conscience resist them and neither resist the King nor His Legall power that you may resist them by a bare deniall of obedience unto them if such a deniall may be termed a resistance is formerly granted but may you resist them with armed violence will you cut his illegall commands in peeces with your Swords or beat them back with your Cannons doe not alter the state of the question and the point is cleare That the resistance which you make is not only against the verball commands of the King but against the King himselfe who gave those commands and by consequence against that Legall Kingly power or Royall Authority which can never be divorced from His sacred Person while He remains a King for though his authority may by Delegation or Commission be in His Courts where His Person is not ever present yet that His person can be any where or at any time without His Royall authority is such a sublime point such an hidden mistery of State such a new peece of Divinity that my faith is not strong enough to beleeve it nor yours or any other mans wit sufficiently able to prove it Surely the Primitive Christians were dull and stupid who poore simple ignorant Soules out of meer simplicity suffered so much because they were not capable of this subtle nice distinction which were it once admitted for currant and Canonicall Subjects might resist the Prince and lay violent hands up in His Person and yet be neither Traytors nor Rebells but canonized Saints And what can the poore Kingdom expect where the Person of the Prince is not held inviolable and sacred but combustion and confusion The Jews have a proverbiall saying Migrandum est ex illo loco uhi Rex non timetur That men should haste out of that place Country or Kingdom where the King is not feared thereby intimating that doubtlesse some great and fearfull judgement doth hang over it Oh then let me exhort you who have taken up Armes against your Soveraigne no● to turn Religion into Reb●ll●on patience into violence fidelity into perjury subject 〈◊〉 into sedition and you London Lecturers that have been t e chiefe Trumpetters to this desperate unnaturall bloody irreligious Warre turn not your spirituall Militiae into that which is carnall doe not exhort men in the fear of God to fight against the King for that feare of God which doth not strengthen but abate the feare of the King and shrinke 〈…〉 obedience it is 〈…〉 a 〈…〉 ●ented devised ●o●●●●●ted by m●● and taught or approved by God the true Religion fear● of God ●●●heth 〈◊〉 feare and honour the King to be subject 〈◊〉 him and not to resist Him I will conclude with a Prayer THen that art the God of Peace settle the Peace of this dis●…ed Kingdom by casting faction out of the State and Schism●● of the Church and by undeceiving the minds 〈◊〉 that have been seduced into open rebellion under a pre●●●●● of Piety and Religion that so we may come once more to live a quiet pe●ceable life in all godlinesse and honesty under the Religiou● Governme●● of our gracious Soveraigne ●hom doe thou O Lord long preserve to raigne over us an happy King of many blessings Errata Pa●… 〈◊〉 ●ine to after the second word the adde La●o● and. p. 9. l. 2. after 〈◊〉 ● or p. 11. l. 15. for secondly r. thirdly p. 28. l. 3. for there r. hir p ●4 l. 22. for unlawfullnesse r. lawfulnesse l. 24. for ordinances 〈◊〉 ordnances other literall fruits I leave to the correction of the inte●…igent Reader FINIS