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A93576 The hidden things of Esau brought to light, and reproved in an answer to a book intituled A true relation of a dispute between Francis Fulwood, minister of West Alvington, in the county of Devon, and Thomas Salthouse, as it is said, of the county of Westmerland, before the congregation of them called Quakers, in the house of Henry Pollexpher Esquire, in the said parish of West. Published in the truth's defence, and sent abroad in the world, to pursue the unknown authors imperfect relation. By a follower of the Lamb in the war against the Beast and false prophet, known to the world by the name of Thomas Salthouse. Salthouse, Thomas, 1630-1691. 1657 (1657) Wing S473; Thomason E912_4; ESTC R204852 26,539 40

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least we say peace peace when sudden destruction cometh Answ Let him that nameth the name of the Lord depart from iniquity for none calls Jesus Lord but by the Holy Ghost What have you to do to take his name into your mouths and thus bend your tongues for lies and hate to be reformed upon you that are asleep will the day of the Lord come as a theif in the night even as sudden destruction from the Almighty Therefore arise and be awakened and prepare to meet the Lord by repentance that if peradventure the thoughts of your hearts may be forgiven you For the Lord hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ and with equity will he plead the cause of the innocent against whom you make war and shoot your arrows in secret fear and tremble weep and howl for the misery that is coming upon you in flames of fire will God render vengeance upon his adversaries out of Heaven will he thunder upon them and they shall be even broken to peeces as the Vessel of a Potter is broken with a rod of Iron In vain do ye pot-sheards of the Earth strive to set Bryers and Thorns in battle your formed weapons cannot prosper a consumption is even determined upon the whole Earth and every mans work is to be tried by fire that the approved of God may be made manifest Can ye contend with the Almighty before whom all Nations are as the drop of a Bucket or as the small dust of the ballance Give over stop your mouths let all flesh be silent before the Lord. Come down and sit in the dust you that are high and lifted up and meet the Judge by the way Kiss the Son least he be angry and lay down your Crown at the feet of the Lamb and let the Lord be your fear and let him be your dreads and let the light of Christ in your consciences try your words and works and cease from your blinde Leaders that have used their tongues and not profited the people And while you have the light believe in the light and know while the Spirit of the Lord strives with you resist not his power lest your Bonds be made strong and you for ever shut up in utter darkness A price is put into your hands the Lord will not the death of a sinner the times of ignorance God winked at but now he calls all men every where to repent Call not this the railing discourse but take it as a Call to you and a warning from the Lord by a servant of the Truth made willing by the power of God to follow the Lamb wheresoever he goeth Thomas Salthouse Francis Fulwood TO the substance of what passed between thee and me in the discourse upon the Four and twentieth day of the Eight Moneth 1656. in the house of Henry Pollexphen which its like thou wast not unacquainted with the Printing of if no the cheifest actor I shall return something in Answer for the Truth 's vindication especially to the particulars of most concernment which I call to minde since I saw this Relation As first After I had spoken to the people that day as I was moved and directed by the Spirit of Truth then a Friend of mine being moved also stood up according to the order in the Churches of the Saints and spoke to the people then present to whom I gave liberty the spirits of the Prophets being made subject to the Prophets And as thou mayest remember thy first Objection was against her for saying Eternal life was not to be found in the Scriptures The second thing was a Quere by me propounded to thee which I yet received no satisfactory Answer unto from thee The third thing was an Objection made by thee against me for expressing as I was declaring to the people That those who are out of the Doctrine of Christ as they were then described by their fruirs and marks were such as Preach another Gospel then that which the Apostle had preached and so under the curse as it is written Gal 1. The fourth thing was about the light spoken of in Johns Declaration and something concerning Tithes Fifthly Concerning Baptism and the words thee and thou which many are offended at as they are and were given and taken by the servants of God one to another as we read in the Scriptures of Truth To these things in order as God doth direct I shall for the truths sake answer and as for the other passages in the Relation not worth the taking notice of or repeating over again I shall let them stand and wither as an untimely birth begotten by one of the adulterate generation and brought forth of the womb of consusion I might have written down a gross sum of lies but it feems the Authors were pricked at the heart when they saw what they had done and so to hide themselves have concealed their names from the visible eye of man But this Cave of earthly subtilty will not long hide them from the All-seeing eye of him with whom we have to do If thou be one of their confederacy fear and tremble before the Lord and come forth to the Light that thou mayst be proved and tried and be not thou called of men Master but learn of Jesus Christ to be meek and lowly take up his Cross and follow him and side not longer with the Chief Priests against him and his Ministers whom he hath sent forth as sheep among wolves to reprove sin in the Gates and to preach Repentance that people may be turned from the darkness to the light and from under Satans power unto God who hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my Gospel To the first of these particulars I shall proceed Thy first Objection which the Book also mentions against the Woman is as follows Fulwood I Have one word first unto this woman that spake last and that is to charge her with speaking expresly against the Scripture She told us that Eternal life was not to be found in the Scriptures whereas the Apostle saith expresly that the holy Scriptures are able to make wise unto salvation Answ The Scripture is plain for what she intended John 5. Search the Scriptures for in them ye think to have eternal life and they are they that testifie of me saith Christ But ye will not come unto me that you may have life And again he saith I am the Way the Truth and the Life and he that hath the Son hath life and he that hath not the Son hath not life although he may have the Scriptures 2 Cor. 4.10 For the Minister of Christ waited for and witnessed the life of Christ manifested in his mortal Body and travailed again in birth with others till Christ the Life was formed in them I in them and they in me saith Christ John 17. And Christ in you the Hope
being made subject to the higher power for Conscience sake And if thou smite me on the one Cheek I must rather turn the other then smite thee again And if any of those within the compass of thy quarter who are witnesses of the unchangable Priesthood out of Conscience refuse to pay thee Tithes thou hast this shelter to flie unto to wit the Law of the Land to sue them for their own Corn or Hay on which thou never bestowedst any labor But Friend look thou first unto the Royal Law and see if this be as thou wouldst be done by If thou profess thy self to be a Minister of God let the Law of God be thy rule and take counsel of him alone and let his Word be thy light and here thou wilt come to see thy pleading for Tithes to be onely for thy own carnal ends and not for the glory of God And if any one deny to pay Tithes out of coveteousness self-ends or a desire to save the Earth I am against that principle both in thee and them For the Earth is the Lords and the fulness thereof And if any man have this worlds goods and see his Brother have need and shut up his compassion against him how dwells the love of God in that man But that thou hast as much right to Tithes as the Gentleman thou makest mention of hath to his estate it lies upon thee to prove by Scripture Col. 2.14 for that Law is changed and the hand writing of Ordinances blotted out by which the Levitical Priesthood had right to their Tithes who had no inheritance in the Land of Canaan But thou canst not prove that the Evidences by which the Gentleman thou speakest of holds his estate is disannulled or made void And they who received Tithes Deut. 14.29 had also a commandment to pay Tithes And if thou plead for their order then the strangers the widows and fatherless have as much reason to plead for and right to receive Tithes as thou or any of thy Brethren hath And if thou plead for Melchisedecs order then if thou meet any coming from the slaughter of their enemies after they have conquered if thou have a blessing for them thou maist take the Tenth of the spoils if they be free to give it thee but if thou deny the figures and own and confess Jesus Christ to be come in the flesh and thy self to be one of his Ministers thou needst neither plead for Tithes nor take thought what to eat or drink or what to put on Matth. 6. For after these things do the Heathen seek who know not God Fulw. The Text saith he paid Tithes and if it be granted me That Tithes be lawful to be paid in the time of the Gospel I desire no more Answ The Text doth not say that Tithes was paid in the time of the Gospel not to any of the Ministers of the Gospel and if thou confess thy self to be one I demand of thee to what end thou desiredst it so earnestly If thou didst but take Christs counsel to seek first the Kingdom of God and its righteousness all other things would be added unto thee for God hath ordained that they that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel and be content with food and rayment and the hand writing of Ordinances for taking Tithes is blotted out and the Commandment going before disannulled so that it cannot be granted to be lawful for Christs Ministers to take Tithes But what needest thou be afraid if thou be one of his If God took care for Oxen in the time of the Law and for the Levitical Priests who had no inheritance in the promised Land Matth. 6. Doth he not also take care for his children in these days seeing his mercy endures for ever O thou of little Faith is not thy life more then meat and thy body more then rayment If thou were but a Minister of Christ and didst watch onely for the soul the dispute about these carnal things would be soon at an end but by the children of light both your Call Ministry Maintenance and Ordinances are seen which stands onely in outside things and carnal washings are seen and judged What Scripture have you for sprinkling of Infants and so call it Baptism or an Ordinance of God Fulw. I never saw an Infant onely sprinkled Answ Whether it be dipping or sprinkling prove your Baptism of Infants by Scripture to be a lawful command of Christ or an Ordinance of God else I charge you to be usurpers of Authority Many are unsatisfied about this Ordiannce as you call it therefore it lieth upon you to make full proof of your Ministry and practise and wherein your manner of Baptising Infants differs in the ground of it from the Prelates Bishops and Papists whose doctrine and practise you pretend to deny And when your deeds is brought to the light to be proved then it will appear whether you or we have denied the Popish Tenants practise and principles Fulw. This is but to delude the people you know you deny all Baptism with water and that you are as much against the Anabaptists as against us Answ This is a false accusation for I with thousands more in this Nation whose union and fellowship is in the light do own and witness the Baptism which the Scripture speaks of which is by one Spirit into one Body 1 Cor. 12.13 but all Beggerly Elements Bodily Exercises Carnal Ordinances and Outside Services Imitations Likenesses and Shadows of Heavenly things we count as dung and dross in comparison of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus the Substance and End of all Figures Types and Shadows in whom we are circumcised with the Circumcision made without hands in putting off the Body of the sins of the flesh buried with him in Baptism and raised together with him through the Faith of the operation of God who hath raised him from the dead and we are compleat in him who is the head of all principalities and powers Col. 2. who hath made a shew of them openly triumphing over them and so being dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world we are no more subject to its Ordinances knowing that they perish with the using and do not make the Comers thereunto perfect although they have a shew of wisdom and a will-worship in a voluntary humility by which the people are deluded and if the Anabaptists as thou callest them have an other Baptism then this we are not subject unto it And whereas thou chargest me with deluding the people its false and more then thou canst prove But I shall pass by it having learned of him who when he was reviled reviled not again And if thou hast any Scripture for the baptising Infants with water shew it for the peoples satisfaction Fulw. We are commanded to baptize all Nations but Infants are a great part of all Nations Therefore we are commanded to baptize Infants Answ
and the glory of the Lord is risen and arising and shall cover the face of the earth as the waters cover the Sea And now the sinners in Zion begin to tremble and fearfulness surprises the Hypocrites the voice of Babylons merchants is heard with a loud cry Rev. 18. Alas alas for none will buy our merchandise any longer Come say they let us smite with the tongue the hope of our gain is gone you know that by this craft we have got our wealth and if these mens doctrine be received not onely our craft is endangered but our Church and Ordinances which all the world worships in will be denied and our Tithes Augmentations Gifts and Rewards for Preaching will be taken away Report and we will report it let us call them Deceivers and Seducers for none dare contradict us When we are in the Pulpits the Law of the Land is our protection and by it we have liberty to imprison them if they disturb or interrupt us And thus you Parish-Teachers shelter your selves for a season but your covering is too narrow and your bed will be found shorter then a man can stretch himself upon it Your wickedness is manifest and reproved by the light and by a foolish people are you provoked to jealousie whom God hath chosen to confound the wisdom of the wise glory to his Name for ever who hath put an end to the first Covenant that made not the comers thereunto perfect as pertaining to the conscience and hath disannulled the Commandment going before by reason of the weakness and unprofitableness of it This is our God we have waited for him he alone is our Judge King and Law-giver to whom our soul is subject for he ever liveth and hath an unchangable Priesthood even him who is able to save to the uttermost all that come to God by him Which we now witness and deny and declare against the changable Priesthood that took Tithes and denied Christ to be come in the flesh Fulw. Tithes are lawful because not forbidden yea they seem to be encouraged by Christ himself ye Tithe Mint c. And ye do well therefore we do not ill to take them Answ Read thy portion among them to whom Christ spoke and if thou do well mayst thou not be accepted Wo unto you Scribes Pharisees Hypocrites for ye pay Tithe of Mint Mat. 23. Annise and Cummin and have omitted the weightier matters of the Law Judgment Mercy and Faith These you ought to have done and not to leave the other undone But he did not say You did well in so doing but called them fools and bl●nde And so may I truly call him who saith this is an encouragement to takes Tithes If thou or any of thy Brethren take them on this account for shame never profess your selves to be Ministers of the Gospel for Christ gave no command or encouragement to the Twelve Seventy or to any of his Disciples to take Tithes And besides those to whom Christ then spake did not believe in him nor confess him to be the end of the first Covenant in which Tithes was commanded and due to be paid to the Levitical Priesthood which were many Priests because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death But this man hath an unchangable Priesthood for he ever liveth to make intercession for his and is able to save to the uttermost all them that come to the Father by him who is made a Priest for ever not by the Law of a carnal command but by the power of an endless life and of the things which are spoken Heb. 8.1 both concerning Melchisedec and the Levitical Priesthood in that Declaration to the Hebrews This is the sum and substance Jesus Christ who is set on the right hand of the Throne of the Majestie in the Heavens a Minister of the Sanctuary and of the true Tabernacle which God hath pitched and not man For finding fault with the first Covenant Behold the days come saith the Lord that I will make with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new Covenant not according to the old which Covenant they brake Even this is the Covenant that I will make with the house of Israel After those days saith the Lord I will put my Law in their mindes and write them in their hearts I will be unto them a God and they shall be my people And thus the Law and Priesthood being changed as is clear by Scripture neither thou nor thy Brethren have any right to take Tithes either by the Law of God or example of Christs Ministers nor no encouragement from his words nor from that of Abraham who freely gave Tithes to Melchisedec out of the spoils who blessed him when he returned from the Conquest but ye receive the tenth not of the spoils onely but out of poor mens labors and of them who receive no blessing from you and for whom you do no work In the time of the Law there were indeed many Priests and the Priests lips were to preserve the knowledge of the people and then they ought to have brought their Tithes into the storehouse And these Priests had a necessity daily to offer Sacrifice first for their own sin and then for the peoples But Christ being come the Everlasting High Priest of good things to come by a greater and a more perfect Tabernacle not made with hands as the figures and shadows of these good things was He hath obtained a more excellent Ministry in as much as he is the Mediator of a better Covenant established upon better promises And so the Priesthood being changed Heb. 7.12 there is made of necessity a change of the Law Fulw. I have two things to defend our taking of Tithes against his Verse one of which I am sure will hold The first is That we claim not Tithes by the Law of God as it were commanded there but by the Law of the Land whereby we have as clear a title to our Tithes as that Gentleman hath to his Estate The second thing that I have to say is That you cannot prove by this Text that the onely Law for Tithes in the Word of God is abolished Answ Even upon this ground hath thy generation whose hearts are exercised with coveteous practises in all ages caused the Saints and Servants of God of whom the world was not worthy to suffer Some the spoiling of their goods Heb. 11. and others the trials of cruel mockings yea moreover Bonds and Imprisonments for bearing witness against their deceit Here thou hast manifested thy self sufficiently to be out of Christs doctrine and command as before in this Relation is expressed to wit bound by man to Preach every Lords day and by the Law of man thou receivest thy reward And so if thou hast a minde to sue any of those that believe in Christ at the Law and take away their Coat thou maist have their Cloak also for they cannot resist thee